Episode 432 – William Aprill, Shelley Hill, Marty Hayes, National CCR and the boyfriend who wouldn’t take NO for an answer

Full Episode Download:http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/Episode20432.mp3

1- Open and Personal News Segment

2- News Segment

3- Interview Segment 1: William Aprill and Shelley Hill part 1

4- Interview Segment 2: William Aprill and Shelley Hill part 2

5- Interview Segment 3: Marty Hayes

5- DGU Segment:

6- Email and Show Close:


Please visit show sponsor Ammo.com


1- Introduction

John: Welcome to the polite society podcast powered by the Firearms Policy Coalition recorded on Monday, Dec. 4th, 2017 I’m John Richardson

Rob: I’m Rob Morse and on tonight’s show we will talk with Dr. William Aprill and Shelley Hill about intimate partner violence.

Tracy: I’m Tracy Thronburg, and we’ll talk about finally getting moving on national concealed carry reciprocity.

Belle: I’m Belle McCormak We’ll interview Marty Hayes about women going to jail after defending themselves for domestic violence.

Gary: I’m Gary Daugherty and in one of our DGUs we talk about a boyfriend that wouldn’t take no for an answer… so climb aboard

Tracy: strap in

Rob : and hang on!

John:  episode 432 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.

Show intro music.


Personal news from each participant 

Rob- Bill Frady and I talked about Self-Defense Gun Stories.  That was on his Lock and Load Radio program. I released another Episode of Self-Defense Gun Stories and had Tony Simon as my co-host. Lots of my instructors are having internet problems and I’m having recording problems. Fortunately I have paper books to read, like Ken Murrey’s Learning at the Speed of Life.


John -I installed my new Liberty handgun safe in our bedroom this week. Even though we don’t have young children, there will be times when my granddaughter Olivia and her yet to be named little sister will be visiting. Other than that, Barb took Olivia to Disney on Ice this weekend and we also took in a small town Christmas parade. Olivia get more candy there than at Halloween.

Rob( John, I have the Liberty HD100. You?) HD-300

Rob- Ah, the doublewide.




Tracy – I had the pleasure of having lunch yesterday with our good friend (and official physician of the Polite Society Podcast), Dr. John Edeen. He and I are shooting the MAG-120 next week in Live Oak, Florida. We ate jaegerschnitzel and made plans for next week. I feel grossly unprepared for the class, as I have spent the majority of the past two weeks giving personal instruction. Everyone, wish us luck!


Belle – Marty will be joining you in Florida, Tracy. He’s been getting ready today to fly out. Had our annual FAS Staff meeting over the weekend, good to see the whole group together. Everyone is set with their teaching assignments for 2018 and looking forward to the next training season.


Promo about upcoming training classes here.


Tracy – I’m teaching the MAG-20 range at KR Training January 27-28. Mas Ayoob and Marty Hayes are teaching Judicious Use of Deadly Force Instructor Jan 31-Feb 4, also at KR Training. Go to www.krtraining.com for more information and to sign up.


Belle – PSP/ASIC on July 24th-26th at FAS has 7 openings left. 2 spots today went to none other than – Mas Ayoob and Gail Pepin! Call the FAS Office, M-F, 9-4 Pacific time to get on the roster for this special class!


PROMO about PSP Patches


Ask listeners to listen to other shows on the network, name at least 2 shows.


2- News



After what has seemed like forever since the election of President Trump, the first Bill to promote National Reciprocity of CCW was moved to Committee debate on Wednesday November 28th. The vote was an ironic 19-11 in favor. It will be presented to the House floor for a full vote on Wednesday December 5th in the afternoon. As it currently stands, holders of a permit from “any state” will be able to carry in all states. The current Senate draft of the bill however requires that a permit from one’s home state must be held. As an added benefit, the House Bill also appears to shred magazine capacity laws.


Listeners to the show will remember very well the sad case of Shaneen Allen, whose experience after declaring her legal PA concealed firearm to a New Jersey Police officer was horrific; additional  cases involving members of the military and general citizens in places such as New York City are also well known. House Bill 38 is designed to prevent such miscarriages of justice.


The debate lasted all day. Amendments were presented to many topics – some related to the Bill and some to the usual talking points (such as “Universal” background checks). Some were minor, while some would have effectively nullified the Bill if it were to become law. Many of the amendments showed an almost complete ignorance of the processes of obtaining a CCW permit in the various States. All of the detrimental amendments were defeated, two (to allow Federal Judges to carry in any state and to allow retired and off-duty Law Enforcement officers to carry in gun-free school zones) did pass. The Bill was recorded as “reported favorably” to the House at 4.54pm


The House Rules Committee is expected to issue a rule to send this bill to the floor for a vote on Wednesday, Dec. 6th. The bill to be voted on combines concealed carry reciprocity with the Fix NICS Act passed out of the House Judiciary Committee in the same markup hearings.


Listeners are encouraged to contact their House Representatives to encourage them to vote “yes” on this key bill. We need to now look for the parallel bill in the Senate.


SOURCE: Live via YouTube.


John – Rep. Richard Hudson states that not only those with permits but those who live in constitutional states will also be covered by the bill.

Rob- Bargaining chips.


John – The anti’s are geared up. I just saw something put out by Giffords that gives scripts and fill-in the blank letters for calling and writing.





We may not need more data to support the National Reciprocity movement, but we certainly need to get the good stories about CCW holders out to a broader audience.


Here is a prime example of the Good Guys doing their work correctly. At 4.30 pm on Saturday November 25th, two legally armed citizens stopped the threat presented by a murderer.


The attacker shot two people, killing one and paralyzing another, at which point the two good guys intervened, stopping the attacker with their defensive handguns.


If they had not, things could have been much worse. The local Police Chief said: “The attacker had multiple magazines on his person.  He was intent on doing harm. The employees stepped up and prevented customers, employees, and other vendors who were in the business at the time from sustaining further injuries. They did a good job.”


In the week when the House may well vote on the National Reciprocity legislation, it’s important to let your State and Federal representatives know that the Good Guys are out there, working for us all, every day.













Some of us will have been aware of a recent clarification from our friends at ATF, regarding the prohibition of medical and recreational marijuana users from owning firearms. The 4473 form has been altered to specifically highlight this drug. This is Federal Law, so it applies across the whole country, including marijuana-liberalized states such as Colorado and Washington, and traditionally gun-friendly states such as Arizona


Recently, three states have begun the process of collecting firearms from citizens who have medical marijuana cards. Hawaii,  Florida and Pennsylvania are all issuing notices to gun owning marijuana users that they have to “turn them in”. Of course, to do this, there must be registries of gun ownership and medical MJ use, that can be cross-referenced.


We wonder whether this slow creep of state-legalized marijuana use is another part of the progressive long-game to prevent the upcoming generation from being able to own, and perhaps even handle, firearms.


We urge listeners to be on the look out for ballot initiatives or the like for the legalization of marijuana in your state and think carefully before voting for them, if you value your gun-rights, and those of the next generation.


Rob- All elections have consequences.

John – The only alternative is to remove the prohibition on marijuana from federal law. It actually may be counterproductive to resolving the opioid crisis.

Belle- I gotta agree with John












Rob- Gun Quotes-

The bill of rights isn’t about us, it’s about them.  It isn’t a list of thing we’re permitted to do.  It’s a list of things THEY aren’t allowed to even consider.  L. Neil Smith


Hang on everybody, we’ll be back with our guests Dr William April and Shelley Hill.



3- Interview 1

William Aprill –

Interpersonal violence- murder suicide

Belle- it’s not a question of not recognizing it as much as it’s being embarrassed or ashamed by what is often perceived as allowing the behavior to occur. As far as “charging in” as Rachel said, this is a thing! I was that girl. I was a victim of the false confidence that made me basically say “try it buddy’ and then got hammered. As far as what Rachel said about asking-sometimes you have to GENTLY ask repeatedly, and ease them into being comfortable with opening up to you and enduring that embarrassment


If you want to help, you have to be willing to accept the burden of that-things you think are silly. You have to be willing to let them work through their plan the way that will allow them to follow through.





4- Interview 2

Marty Hayes – ACLDN

Women are prosecuted after they defend themselves from an abusive relationship.

Belle- What advice would you give to avoid this?

To all of you- how can we convince women to do what it takes to help themselves ie: get training?


Belle 5- DGUs  (at beginning) These discussions are NOT legal advice. Some of us are trainers, but this is not formal training and YOU NEED formal training. The Defensive Gun Use segment is intended as information, NOT as training. As always the opinions of the hosts are only their own opinions and not those of any sponsors or other affiliations.


John- Jacksonville Florida

In June, Michael Turner couldn’t leave well enough alone.  He broke out the window of an apartment in Jacksonville Florida.  The apartment was that of his ex-girlfriend.

Turner had been arrested previously on a felony domestic strangulation charge in 2016.  He strangled then punched his former girlfriend until she lost consciousness.  The charges were later dropped.

Police stated that they received a call about multiple shots fired just before 6 AM.  When they arrived at the apartment, they found the abusive ex-boyfriend dead after receiving multiple gunshot wounds.

Leaders with Hubbard House, an anti-domestic abuse organization, said unfortunately, there are a lot of misconceptions about women in abusive relationships.

Hubbard House CEO Ellen Siler said.”People assume that if the woman will just leave, everything’s going to be OK, and that isn’t always the case,” “There’s ongoing stalking and ongoing threats, so if you’re going to leave, it’s important for you to have a plan to safely leave, which Hubbard House can help you with.”

As of June, this was the 12th domestic related homicide in the Jacksonville in 2017 to that point.


Rob- Do you have access to your gun?


Tracy- Panola County Mississippi

It has been said that a protection or restraining order is only as strong as the paper that it has been printed on.  It did slow Phyllis Hamm’s estranged husband away.

Just 5 days after the order expired, James Clinton Hamm showed up at the residence they had shared outside Batesville, Mississippi and attempted to enter.  She had locked the door and tried to wedge a jack to keep the door shut.  Mr. Hamm was able to unlock the door then kicked it, which slid the jack out of the way.

As he entered the home, she fired her .22 caliber revolver and fatally injured her estranged late husband.  She had expressed her fear and had issues as part of their divorce in the past including finding a butcher knife stuck in the back porch.

Mrs. Hamm was taken into custody and put on a hold in the county jail pending a decision to indict or not by the Panola County Grand Jury, but she was later released.

Rob- Rachel said it is hard to shoot your ex.


Gary- Zephyr Hills Florida

Alejandria Guinn exercised her right to own a firearm and used it to defend herself.  When she was visited by her ex-boyfriend late one night, she had reason to fear for her life.

Frank Harrison has previously threatened to hurt her and when she saw him standing outside her home, armed with an AR style rifle, she had reason to fear for her life.

She scrambled to get her gun then made her way to the front door.  She opened the door and came out shooting.  She managed to end the threat permanently without getting herself shot.

While the police initially determined she had probably acted in self-defense so she wasn’t arrested or charged, they also have not found any records of past injunctions filed by Guinn against Harrison.


Tracy – Why did she open the door?

Rob- Get the paperwork.  Call the police.  Make your attacker come to you.

Rob- Eastlake Ohio

When Lake County Ohio Police responded to a call from a distraught woman they found more than just that woman.  They also found the woman’s ex-boyfriend on the floor with a gunshot wound to the leg and a pool of blood surrounding him.

The aggressive ex-boyfriend broke into her home and the woman responded with an equal show of force to end her perceived threat.  The man was transported to the hospital where he later succumbed to the loss of blood from his wound.

The handgun was secured at the scene and both the woman and another witness were brought in for questioning.  The unnamed woman has not been charged.

Rob- Have a gun, and preferably more than one.

Belle- Eastern Kentucky

Krystal Shepard has placed a warrant for assault against Brandon Endicott in September after he hit and kneed her causing her to receive 16 stitches and broken bones in her face.

When the man entered her home one morning shortly afterwards, Ms. Shepard defended herself.  Endicott was found deceased in a neighboring yard and a stray bullet went into a neighboring mobile home.

She had not been charged and the case was being sent to the grand jury.

Rob- there is no cover in a mobile home park.


We post each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com  Please take a minute and share them with a friend.



6- E-mail, blog notes, and show close


Listener e-mail discussion


Gary: Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?





You just might be a liberal hypocrite if…

As a star of the socialist news media, you act offended by President Trump’s talk of grabbing a woman’s sex..while off-camera you are busy raping women in your office.

As a liberal news caster you act indignant as you grill the conservative talk show host who is facing charges of sexual assault..while you are praying your own victims remain silent.


My articles are up at Clash Daily, at Ammoland and at my blog, slow facts dot wordpress dot com.  John, tell us what’s new at your blog no lawyers only guns and money.


It has been mostly news stories this past week involving HR 38 and national reciprocity with a little bit thrown in about a new lawsuit that our friends at SAF and Firearms Policy Coalition have sprung on California over their bullet button AWB.


That and more is at only guns and money dot blogspot dot com.




Facebook listeners group


John: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast.  I’d like to thank (Dr. William Aprill, Shelley Hill, and Marty Hayes) for joining us today.  So for Amy, Tracy, Belle, Jae, Dana, Douglas, Gary, Paul, Rachel, Susan, Craig, Grant and Rob,

(Paul, stop talking now)


Rob: Until the next time…

Gary: stay safe,

Tracy: be aware,

Belle: and we’ll see you down the road.