Episode 351 – Hillary vs the NRA

Full Episode Download: http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/351.mp3

Open and Personal News Segment:

News Segment 1:

News Segment 2:

Special Segment: Obama’s Executive Orders:

Interview Segment 1: Brandon Combs

Interview Segment 2: John Willett

DGU Segment:

Email and Show Close:



“An armed society is a polite society.. and this is the Polite Society Podcast where we support and report on civilian self-defense.”

Paul: Welcome to The Polite Society podcast  sponsored by the Firearms Policy Coalition recorded on Sunday, October 18th, 2015, I’m Paul Lathrop

Rob: I’m Rob Morse and we interview John Willett about his New Jersey SAFE conference.  

John: I’m John Richardson, and we’ll talk about Candidate Hillary Clinton proudly claiming the NRA and gun owners as her enemy.

Gary: I’m Gary Daugherty and in one of our DGU’s, a good samaritan used his licensed firearm to stop a carjacker who was kidnapping kids in the back seat of his stolen car.. so climb aboard

Rob: strap in

John : and hang on!

Paul:  episode 351 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.

Show intro music.


Seg 1- Personal news from each participant (when you are done with your segment please ask the next person what has been up with them)


Gary – What training do you have coming up?


John – No gun shows or shooting this week. However, I did do a bit of blogging including an important post entitled Every Picture Tells a Story, Part Three. More on this post at the show close segment of the show.


We are spending the weekend with our granddaughter and her parents. Olivia has a lot of theme-related outfits like UNC Tar Heels and the Carolina Panthers. It got me to thinking I need to find a NRA tee shirt for a toddler. Just imagine how a picture of her in a NRA shirt would drive the anti-rights crowd mad!





On a more serious note, I had my hearing checked this week. I have moderate 4000 hertz notch hearing loss. It along with my tinnitus can be traced to shooting in my younger years without hearing protection. My audiologist made the recommendation to use both foam plugs and muffs when shooting indoors. Given her boyfriend shoots 3-gun, I think she may know what she is talking about. I would urge all of our listeners – and especially the younger ones – to really make an effort to protect your hearing. Hearing loss is irreversible. This is just another reason that suppressors need to come off the NFA list. It is a safety issue.


Rob- Mailed in the last paperwork for my CCW.  More dry practice.  I’m excited to go to Florida next weekend.


Paul- Not a lot of news as I unexpectedly got a student on Tuesday and that turned a 70 hour work week into a 100 plus hour work week.

Training – We just booked a training class for next year and I am HUGELY excited about this. May 12th through the 15th of 2016 will be the Polite Society Podcast MAG 40 in Sioux Falls, SD


Seg 2- News


Hillary Declares the NRA an Enemy

In the first Democrat debate, Hillary Clinton proudly claimed the NRA as her enemy. In the following days she continued her demonization of the organization, equating it with terrorists, communists and Iranians. She  promoted the Australian Model of gun control, deliberately hiding it’s jack-booted door-to-door confiscation of guns. Clinton has announced her gun control plan, promising that when she’s elected, she’ll ban some guns and impose restrictive gun control laws on all others, even without Congress.


Clinton has chosen to make an enemy of the hundred million law-abiding gun owners; making them the problem instead of the drug gangs, criminals and the insane who are the real source of crime. Constitutional protections apparently mean little to her and she has openly challenged the Supreme Court’s pro-rights gun decisions. Her election would mean a direct assault on the rights of free men and women.

As such, we’re proud to be Hillary’s Enemy.


RM – If the NRA was truly the same as terrorist, communists and Iranians, It would probably be a good thing, as the ‘Boma administration and Clinton have a long history of rolling over for them.


John – I would also note that Hillary, in a New Hampshire town hall, advocated using a “cash for clunkers” approach to achieve her Australian style gun control. OK, just whose money is going to pay for that? Hers or ours?


CNN Money says NRA funded by small donors

If you watched the democrat debates then you heard the chant that the NRA is funded by the gun manufacturers.  Journalists at CNN Money did their homework and looked at the public record.  None of the donations to the National Rifle Association Institute for Legislative action come from corporate interests.  You and  I gave 85 million dollars over the last ten years.  The largest donation was 50 thousand dollars.  We gave 22 million dollars during the 2014 election.  As one NRA official said ‘politicians don’t listen to the NRA, but they listen to the NRA’s 5 million members.’  There is a reason.  The NRA has been effective in getting its members to donate their money, their time for campaigns, and in getting their members to the polls on election day.


John – Hillary just gave the NRA a gift. It will make fund raising that much easier.

Rob – It is all good publicity.


Harvard Study: More Guns – Less Crime
Always good to have some facts to offset the emotional drivel of the politicians. Especially when they come from the Dear Leader’s own school.  A Harvard University study thoroughly refutes the anti’s long held belief that more guns means more crime.


According to the news site Belief-net, a study in the Harvard Journal of Law & Public Policy said the more guns a nation has, the less criminal activity they find.  The study collected data from the Centers for Disease Control, the U.S. National Academy of Sciences and the United Nations International Study on Firearms Regulation.

Now, where have we heard those same results before?  Could it be…. John Lott?  

John – the anti’s are also trying to inflate the number of deaths.

Gary –

Rob- that is why I compared the rate of violence, not simply violence with a handgun.


Gun Violence Decreasing – Guns Sales Increasing
Refuting the scare-mongering of Clinton and the Obama administration, National Shooting Sports Foundation reported that, “Historical data from FBI Uniform Crime Reports show significant decreases in both the number of annual violent crimes committed as well as the violent crime rate in the United States.” The figures show a 35.2 percent decline in violent crimes over the past 20 years and a 16.2 percent decline over the past 10 years. The continuing decrease in violent crime comes at a time when firearms ownership has increased significantly across America, a fact that utterly contradicts the mantra of anti-gun groups that more guns equals more crime.


With the Left’s demonization of the firearm, it is no small coincidence that last month’s adjusted National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) figure of just over a million inquiries is the highest September on record for the 17-year-old system, with an increase of 4.7 percent compared to the September 2014 NSSF-adjusted NICS figure. Obama continues his record as the best gun salesman ever.


For our new listeners, the National Instant Criminal Background Check System is run by the FBI.  The system reports to gun dealers and local law enforcement if a gun buyer is a prohibited person.






The Creepy Ballerina Blames Deadliest September in 13 Years On Police Being Afraid to do Their Jobs

Years of Progressive policies have come home to the Windy City with a spike in murders.  You heard that right; rabidly anti-gun Chicago is bucking the nationwide trend of diminishing murder rates. Chicago mayor Rahm Emanuel blames Chicago’s deadliest September in 13 years on police being afraid to do their jobs.  Rahm said “We have allowed our police department to get fetal and it is having direct consequence.  (The police) have pulled back from the ability to interdict … they don’t want to be a news story themselves, they don’t want their career ended early, and it’s having an impact (on crime).”

The so-called Ferguson Effect is causing police officers to fear for their freedom, families and careers if they aggressively go after criminals of a protected class. They can see that their police commanders and political leaders will happily throw them to the wolves if their actions excite the professional activists or sensation-hungry media.  As a result, the street officers are deciding to play it safe, get their 20 years in, and retire. Criminals on the street are reacting to the withdrawal of enforcement.

If you demonize and demoralize the cops, and disarm the populace, what did the politicians think would happen?  Congratulations Chicago — and Baltimore, Washington DC, St Louis, Frisco, LA… all cities with radically increased murders rates — you are reaping what you’ve sown.


Rob- That is sad news.  The people being hurt the most are poor minorities.  I’m sorry, but we tried to tell you that elections have consequences.


John – Rob you are absolutely correct. When I was looking at the CDC mortality statistics, a combination of African Americans and Latinos comprised the majority of deaths.


John W. – Camen NJ and what is the real cost of this policy in terms of residents lives.

Rob – We have 15 black people killed every day by black people.. and the news media ignores it as if black lives don’t matter.


77,000 population of camden


Texas Police Offering Free CCW Course
Not all police are retreating from the criminals. The police department in Aransas Pass, Texas is offering free concealed handgun license classes. Police Chief Eric Blanchard says he wants people in the community to be educated when it comes to guns. “The bad guys don’t care about the rules. If they want to be armed they are going to be armed. If we can offset those numbers with good people being armed out there. I think the odds are in favor of the good people winning when a disastrous lunatic decides to strike.” The first three classes are full. But they plan to offer more classes in the coming months.


Yah gotta love Texas.


Rob- I do.  Many sheriffs across the country do this.


John – I just wish more police ranges were available to the general public.

Gary –

Indiana Sheriff Vows to Ignore Obama’s Executive Actions on Gun Control
Not all police are retreating from the politicians. Elkhart County Indiana Sheriff Brad Rogers appeared on a local PBS panel discussion about gun rights and gun control in the wake of recent college shootings. He went on to say that he wouldn’t obey orders from on high that went against his constitutional oath.  Quote “We’ve always had this conversation that we need more reasonable gun control put in place.  But we (already) have what is reasonable, in my opinion, and in fact it’s probably overdone. I think people are tired of being victims and a firearm is a great equalizer. Whether it’s a female, whether it’s an 80-year-old, the guy who’s kicking in your front door after he knocked and you don’t answer — that is a very scary event.   You can call 911, but I’m telling you, we’re not gonna make it in time to neutralize the threat … the people of this nation [have got] to take responsibility for their own safety.”

Another guest, a local radio host, said gun registration is a “feel-good” measure that actually “works” only when the government moves against the people. He added that following England’s gun restrictions that there is now a “knife culture” there. That’s absurd, It’s not the tool, it’s the bad guy.

Sounds like Indiana has a hot-spot of common sense in media and law enforcement.    


Constitutional Carry Takes Effect in Maine

We have some great news this week as Maine became a Constitutional Carry state.  According to a poll in the Bangor Daily News, a clear majority like the idea. Maine citizens have flocked to gun stores in order to exercise their Constitutionally guaranteed right. Blood is not running in the streets, despite the usual hyperbolic claims of the anti-rights groups. that the sky is falling.  


Maine State Senator Erik Brakey sponsored the new law.  He said, “A criminal is not going to get a permit. He’s going to break the law. The same goes for gun-free zones. Criminals are not going to obey these zones.” Likewise, firearm instructor Adam Foster added the perspective of someone who lived under a similar law in Alaska.  He said, “The world continued to turn round and round. Nothing changed, really. There were no wild, crazy gunfights in the street.”


Well, heck, we could have told them that. And we will continue to.


Six states down. Only 44 left to go.


John – if you are not a prohibited person and are 21, you can carry concealed or openly. If you are a vet, then it is 18 or older.


Princeton Turns to Firearm to Protect Students and Staff
In our last story, there’s been a sudden, unexpected rush to sanity at an unlikely place: the ivy covered walls of Princeton.  

The Daily Princetonian reports that Princeton Department of Public Safety officers will have access to rifles that can be used in the event that a gunman tries to take innocent life or simply brandishes a firearm. DPS Executive Director Paul Ominsky said, “The national best practices for responding to an active shooter have evolved. It is now a law enforcement best practice to get an armed officer to the scene as quickly as possible to save lives.” He added, “Response time matters. Even a few minutes can make a difference to save a life.”

Well, heck, we could have told them that. And it wouldn’t take a half million dollar education either. See, a professional, degreed educator CAN learn. But can Harvard and Yale?    


Gary –

Rob- Blue polyester uniforms don’t bring you superpowers?


Gun Quotes

We chose this week’s gun quotes in honor of the New Jersey SAFE conference and the Gun Rights Policy Conference.


This quote is from Ayn Rand.  She said, There is another kind of social pyramid. The genius who fights ‘every form of tyranny over the mind of man’ is fighting a battle for which lesser men do not have the strength, but on which their freedom, their dignity, and their integrity depend. It is the pyramid of moral endurance. Close quote.

Let me add that I am more than willing to be a step in this pyramid


Hang on everybody, we’ll be back with our guest John Willett

advertisement Concealment Solutions


Segment 3 Interviews

John Willett- NJ second amendment firearms education conference

John, you also produce the bear arms podcast.




Special guests (celebrities or politicians)

Who spoke?

Who heard them?

What are the attendees now motivated to do?


Rob MorseObama’s  Executive Orders – or why we don’t trust the government with our guns


Rob- One of our listeners contacted me with a criticism.  On this podcast we speak as if our listeners knew all the previous news.  That means a new listener is missing part of the story.  Thank you, Alana, for that comment.  Here is a story that brings new listeners up to speed since the murders at Sandyhook, Connecticut two years ago.


Many gun owners are antagonistic towards the Obama Administration.  There is a reason for that hostile attitude today.  The Obama administration lied to us again and again.  At one point, Obama said he was not here to take our guns.  Later, he said we should turn them all in.  The president has also weaponized every aspect of government to suit his political ends.  From the Internal Revenue Service, to the Veterans Administration and the Environmental Protection Agency, each agency maximizes the political donations they receive and ignores the people’s business.


After the public murder at a community college in Oregon, President Obama again said he’d issue executive orders to regulate firearms.  I read his 23 point plan, and it is important to read his orders to see how they will be abused by a corrupt Chicago politician.

Gary-  This doesn’t sound too bad.  Obama said he’d require federal agencies to make relevant data available to the federal background check system.  Isn’t that a good thing to stop criminals from getting guns?

Rob- This sounds good, and it might be good under an honest president.  First, criminals don’t buy guns at gun stores, so they never bother with background checks.  All our recent murderers either passed their background checks or murdered to get their guns.


As to the national gun owner database, Unfortunately, there is insufficient fact checking before the feds put garbage into their national database.  We’ve all read about people who have a similar name or address who were denied a gun or the ability to get on an airplane.   Making bigger mistakes faster is not progress.


Suppose someone with a name similar to yours tries to buy a gun.  There is a terrible bias to use military tactics on gun owners when a phone call would do.  


Here is an example.  Suppose your brother is a military veteran.  He listed your house as his address when he was deployed. Years later he lives somewhere else and is being treated by the Veterans administration   Now the cough medicine your brother took is sufficient cause for you to get a SWAT team kicking down your door to disarm you “for your own safety”.  After all, we wouldn’t want a gun owner taking dangerous drugs.. even though your brother is now thousands of miles away.


Those are not accidental faults; those are key features of the Obama plan.  The political goal of this administration is to promote their political ends, not to help those who are struggling with addiction or depression.  They want to punish gun ownership and make guns unattractive to the general public.  A federal database is only another political tool to that end.


Gary- OK, so how about this one.  Obama wants to remove legal barriers in Obama Care that may prevent states from making information available to the background check system.  Wouldn’t that help find crazy people and keep them from getting guns?

Rob- Good question, Gary.  This proposal means the private information you gave to your doctor isn’t private any longer.  How about the night you stayed awake worrying about your nephew.  That can now be seen as a disqualifying sign of mental illness.  Don’t talk about the headache your spouse had last week.  Those can be considered critical indicators that when taken together allow the government to seize your firearms.  The government now pays your doctor, so the doctor you visit actually works for them, not for you.  Find a private doctor and pay him yourself if you want advice on any mental health issues.

Gary- Obama says he wants to improve incentives for states to share information with the background check system.  What could be wrong with that?

Rob- Let me translate that bit of bureaucrat speak for you.  “Improve incentives” means withhold federal money unless the states do what the Obama’s donors want done.  In our case, states will fork over information about gun owners or the feds will cut state funding.  


I’ve seen Chicago politics, and believe me that a loyal socialist bureaucrat can always find a paperwork violation.

Gary- Obama asked the Attorney General to review categories of individuals prohibited from having a gun to make sure dangerous people are not slipping through the cracks.  Don’t we want to keep guns away from danger people?

Rob- Remember, Gary, that the Obama administration called Christians, veterans, and the Tea Party the greatest threat to America.  The southern poverty law center called my wife a terrorist.  


Meanwhile, Obama invited thousands of Syrian fighters and thousands of Mexican drug gangs across the US border.  We’ve already seen military veterans and social security recipients stripped of their ability to own firearms because they have their monthly checks sent to a third-party payee.  According to the Obama Administration, anyone who isn’t a dues paying card carrying SEIU member is a threat.

Gary- Obama also proposed new rules to give law enforcement the ability to run a full background check on an individual before returning a seized gun.

Rob- That sounds so harmless.. and it so so easy to abuse.  First, the government comes into possession of firearms for many reasons.  It might simply mean you had a gun in your car when you were the innocent victim in a traffic accident.  You might be a passenger in a car that was stopped, and now the government takes your firearm “for officer safety” and without probable cause.


You would think that running a background check simply means determining that a gun owner is not a criminal.  If you think that, then you date yourself to an earlier time when we had an honest government.  Today it means searching your medical records to see if anyone in your family ever asked for a sleeping pill.  You can have your firearms seized if your niece, who now stays with you, ever saw a mental-health counselor or had a restraining order when she was getting a divorce.  You can be disarmed if you had your dying parents move in with you while they were receiving pain medication.

Once the government has your guns, then they will determine when they are done with their investigation.  If that takes 15 years or 20 years, well that works for them.

Gary- Obama wants the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms to issue guidelines on background checks for private sellers.  That seems OK to me.  I want everyone to have a background check.

Rob- Of course you and I want to keep guns away from violent criminals.  At the same time, we don’t want to turn honest gun buyers, gun sellers and Federal Firearms License holders into criminals through bureaucratic regulations.  There are some 23 thousand firearms laws, and government lawyers have all the time in the world to prosecute you for each regulation.  Some states already require that every firearm transfer go through a gun dealer and receive approval by the Federal Bureau of Investigation.  Failure to comply can be a felony.


Even handing your gun to your hunting partner as you cross a fence line is now illegal in some states.  Think about background checks for a minute.  If I sell a gun to someone with a concealed carry license, then I already know the person has passed a background checks.


No, this proposal is not about criminals getting guns.  I’ll say it again; criminals never use background checks.  This executive order paves the way for a national database of all firearms owners.

Gary- Obama asked for a campaign to promote safe and responsible gun ownership.

Gary, it sounds like Obama is going to promote your concealed carry class.  I guarantee he is not  going to fund the NRA to run more firearms safety campaigns.  This order allows Obama to give federal dollars to his anti-gun lobbyists.  You and I now get to fund their propaganda with taxpayer dollars.  Of course they anti-rights groups can and will endorse candidates before the election.  That is what community organizers from Chicago do with their phone and their pen.

Gary- President Obama asked the Department of Justice to report on lost and stolen guns.  That sounds safe enough.

Rob- The Department of Justice is headed by US Attorney General Loretta Lynch.  She is a noted anti-gun bigot.  An anti-gun bigot would write a report about the so called lost and stolen guns that criminals use.  She would say we need “smart guns”.  Those are guns that become inoperative if they are stolen from the rightful user, just like smart phones.  Of course, the Attorney General would exempt police, military, and the security details that protect politicians.


PAUL-  That’s because no one wants to trust their life to a gun that can be hacked by a chinese teenager.


Gary- Obama asked the Consumer Product Safety Commission to review safety standards for gun locks and gun safes.  Don’t we want top quality locks and safes?

Rob- Paul, Gary and John, when was the last time you had your gun-safe tested and re-certified by a licensed gun safe inspector?


John- There are no licensed gun safe inspectors!


Rob- Exactly.  So the Consumer Products Safety Commission can now report you as a danger to the public because you’re using an unregulated gun safe.  They will issue a report saying firearms must be locked and inaccessible.. preferable buried under several feet of reinforced concrete.  And the rest of us need our safes inspected every 90 days.. or they come take our firearms because we were negligent.  I trust this president as far as I can throw my gun safe.


skip Gary-  You have to like this one, Rob.  Obama wants to provide law enforcement, first responders, and school officials with proper training for active shooter situations.

Rob- Gary, the NRA is not going to write that report.  It’s Obama who will tell us how to react when the next murderer comes to a “gun free” school.  Unfortunately, we need a plan that goes beyond run, cower and die.


The NRA and other organizations have begged schools to plan and train for active shooters.   When such laws were proposed in congress two years ago, the bills were buried by democrat legislators!  The Obama Administration will produce a propaganda piece so that urban school boards can safely continuing their policy of “gun free school zones”.  Me, I’d prosecute every school administrators for criminal negligence after each and every violent injury in their school.

Gary-  I’ve one more question.  President Obama wants the Surgeon General to research the causes and prevention of gun violence.  That sounds good to me.

Rob- Gary, this might sound like research into public health to treat the mentally ill.  Instead, Obama wants to spin up his propaganda machine.  The anti-gun Surgeon General is named Vivek Murthy.  He will issue propaganda from the Centers for Disease Control.  He will report that all firearms in civilian hands are a risk to public health and safety.  The Surgeon General can define anyone who wants to defend themselves as mentally ill.  The Surgeon General can also fund the Schools of Public Health that anti-gun billionaire Michael Bloomberg has already set up.  Those universities will produce more government propaganda using taxpayer dollars.


Gary- You’re saying our own government will be twisted against us no matter what the letter of the law says.

Gary, that is it exactly. I judge a politician by his results, not his words. If you have not been listening to the podcast for a while, then you might have missed our recent political history.  I am critical of this president for turning government against his political enemies.. and the american people.  The Obama administration does anything it pleases.  There is no law to constrain them as long as they have 40 loyal Democrats in the Senate and cowardly Republicans leading them.  No one’s rights are secure.. particularly firearms owners.

Paul- We will be back with our stories of defensive gun use after this break.



Segment 4 DGUs


Please try not to say “And”, “Ahh”, “So” and “Ummm”.

Concealed Carrier Stops Kidnapping Attempt
A Pennsylvania man used his concealed firearm to stop an attempted car-jacking and child kidnapping near Plymouth last Monday. A criminal first assaulted a local woman outside a gas station and tried to steal her car. Frustrated, the man ran into the road to steal another car. The car he stopped had two children secured in the back seat. The woman driver began yelling for help as she was pulled from the wheel and thrown to the ground.

It was at that point a local man drew his concealed handgun and intervened in the desperate situation. “I have a license to carry this gun, don’t move!” Rob Ragukus held the man at gunpoint until police arrived. No shots were fired.

The owner of the gas station said that Ragukus was “The best man. He saved all of us.”  The CCW holder said “I had to do what I had to do. It’s something everyone needs to do, step up and take back their town.”

Congratulations, Mr Ragukus. Well done, well done indeed.  

Rape Victim Snatches Assailant’s Gun and Shoots Him in the Face
A woman found herself kidnapped and raped at gunpoint late in a Springfield, Ohio night. The rapist held her body, but could not constrain her will to live. When she saw an opportunity, she took it – and the gun – and shot her attacker in the face – twice.

It only took the jury four hours to convict the one-eyed rapist.

In the situation the woman was in, she could have been easily been further injured or killed after the rape. In that desperate situation, she acted, and used the best tool at hand to even the terrible odds. Our congratulations to the heroic, resourceful woman.  

Two Thugs Try To Rob Armed Citizen Walking Down Street
Here’s a damn good example of why we need to bear arms when outside the home. A Houston area man was taking a late night stroll in his neighborhood when he was jumped by two robbers. The man used his firearm to defend his life, killing one attacker and wounding the second.  

A neighbor related; “The shots sounded like they were fired by somebody who knew what they were doing; very distinct and deliberate,” said Marcel Smith, who lives feet away from the shooting, “From my balcony, I could hear the deputies and the robbery victim talking about it all.”

No arrests have been made so far. The Harris County Sheriff’s Office has not said if the shooting was justified.

Woman Who Shot at Fleeing Shoplifter is Charged
It is a terrible thing when someone uses their CCW firearm. The only thing worse would be the injury or death of an innocent. Laws require that the weapon must only be used when serious harm or death is imminent. A Detroit-area woman ignored what she was taught in her CCW course and injected herself into a shoplifting situation where no lives were at risk.

The CCW holder saw a man with a shopping cart running from Home Depot security. The man jumped into a waiting SUV with about a thousand dollars of merchandise. The woman drew her CCW and fired at the departing vehicle. The SUV made good it’s escape,  limping away with a flat tire. Two Flint men, ages 52 and 46, were later arrested for the shoplifting. Thankfully, no one was injured.   

Detroit police investigated and determined that the woman was not being threatened when she fired the shots. She has now been charged with a misdemeanor count of reckless use, handling or discharge of a firearm. The woman’s lawyer said she made “a spilt-second decision to take action, trying to help.” We disagree; she should have already long known this was NOT a time to employ her gun.  

A Detroit Free Press columnist wrote that the woman was only was “…only doing what she’d been told, time and again, from people like National Rifle Association chief Wayne LaPierre to presidential candidate Ben Carson.” This is, of course, is a damn lie. Shame on the columnist for writing such libel and the Detroit rag for printing the lie.  But print it they did – harming the CCW movement that we support.

The woman’s CCW class was required to teach her when a CCW firearm can be lawfully used. Since no lives were being threatened, she should have kept the gun in the holster and acted as a good witness for the police. Because of the critical nature of what we do, all CCW carriers NEED additional training, recurring training, and ongoing practice. DON’T be this woman.  


Waffle House concealed carry permit holder Shoots an armed robbery suspect
There are a lot of places we’d rather be than in a Waffle House at O’dark thirty. However, the employees and customers of one hash house are glad a Concealed Carrier was amongst them one morning. “He saved us, that’s what he did.” according to one employee.

Charleston, South Carolina police received a 5 AM report of an armed robbery and shots fired at the local Waffle House.  Police arrived to find the suspect was already on the ground with a bullet wound.  The suspect was taken to a hospital in critical condition.

An investigating officer said, “It says something about firearms, for good people with firearms being in the right hands.” The division manager for the restaurant chain, said this was the first incident he could recall since it opened a year ago. “No one was hurt, which is the best part,” he said. “No one was injured — besides the suspect.”

The suspect later died at the hospital. The Coroner’s Office later identified him as 19-year-old Joshua Jermaine Davis. Davis was thought to be living with a friend in the downtown area.

The customer had a valid CCW permit. Police said they are not pressing any charges at this time. Despite this situation’s outcome, Waffle House will maintain their No Carry policy in all of their restaurants. I guess we will be finding better places to be at 5 AM in the morning.


Stay safe, stay strong, stay well.  CF

John – I agree that is sad.


We post each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com  Please take a minute and share them with a friend.



Segment 5 Show close


Listener e-mail discussion


On your last podcast you talked about point shooting and referred to training from Bob and Ben? In San Antonio?  Who are they and how can I get training from them.  I did do a quick search but came up empty.  Thank you for your time and the podcast.  Just started listening and enjoy it.


John Harris.


Hi, John.

We referred to Bob Mayne and Ben Branham.

Bob is at http://www.handgunworld.com/

Ben is at http://modernselfprotection.com/

I plan to take their classes soon also.


Gary –


Paul: Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?


Rob- I wrote a post called Please Regulate Guns Like Cars, and another one called Why we Don’t Trust Government With Our Guns.  They are at Clash Daily, at Ammoland, and at my blog.  That is at slow facts dot wordpress dot com.  


Paul – I want to talk about the Please Regulate Guns Like Cars article. Rob, you have caused quite a stir with this post. I posted it on my personal Facebook page and if the results there are any indication a lot of people are talking about this.  I consider myself a gun rights absolutist. I believe that there should be no regulations on any type of weaponry at all period. I don’t think that you wrote this as a advocacy piece saying that this is what we need to do, however if somehow everything in your article were to come to be the law in all of the US, as the anti rights crowd likes to say when they propose changes in gun laws. “It’s not going to solve all of the problems but it’s a good start”




John, tell us what’s new at your blog no lawyers only guns and money


To commemorate the state of Maine going constitutional carry, I released Every Picture Tells a Story, Part Three. With the help of Rob Vance, the blog post graphically shows the growth of shall-issue and constitutional carry since 1986. It updates a post we did in 2011. At that time, approximately 2/3rds of the US population was living in states that had either shall-issue or constitutional carry. With Maine going constitutional carry and Illinois and Wisconsin adopting shall-issue CCW, this has now grown to almost 3/4ths of the US population.

That and more is at only guns and money dot blogspot dot com.


We would like to thank Charlie Foxtrot for writing up show notes for us. Even though you don’t hear him on the air he is certainly part of what you do hear. Look at his blog at not one more gun law dot blogspot dot com


Gary – Shoulder holsters


Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast.  I’d like to thank John Willet for joining us today.  co-hosts, will you be with us next time?  


Rob- I’ll be at the Everglades Glock Range Event in Naples Florida on Saturday October 24th from 9am-4pm.  That is at the Louland gun club.


I’m looking forward to it.  Until the next time…

Gary: stay safe,

Rob: be aware,

John: and we’ll see you down the road.


(after show close) How could we have made this episode better?


(DO NOT READ)Look at the shooters club by Bob Mayne and Ben Branam.  For $75.00 a year, $6.25 a month, you get 24/7 access to some fantastic training and audio podcasts that you can’t get anywhere else.  Subscribing from the link in our show notes helps Bob and Ben as well as helps us here at the Polite Society Podcast.


(DO NOT READ)Join your local civil rights group like the New Jersey Second Amendment Society, Arizona Citizens Defense League, Gun Owners of California, Commonwealth Second Amendment,  Connecticut Citizens Defense League, Florida Carry, Georgia Carry, Georgia Gun Owners, Grass Roots North Carolina, Illinois Carry, Maryland Shall Issue,  Michigan Gun Owners , Michigan Open Carry, and  Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners.


There are Minnesota Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance,  Nebraska Firearms Owners Association,   Citizens for a Safer New Jersey, New York State Rifle & Pistol Association,  Palmetto Concealed Carry, Open Carry Texas, Texas Firearms Freedom, Texas State Rifle Association. Tennessee Firearms Association, Virginia Citizens Defense League, Virginia Open Carry,  West Virginia Citizens Defense League, wisconsingunowners.org, and Wyoming Gun Owners.


For our Canadian listeners, and their supporters, join the Canadian Shooting Sports Association and the Canadian National Firearms Association.  If YOUR state or local organization isn’t read each episode, then send us an email and we’ll add them!


(DO NOT READ)The Polite Society download app is out on Amazon for Android and the I-phone app is in I-tunes and it is called Podcast Box.  They are located by our old name, Politics and guns.  Hot links are in our show notes.


Episode 223- Action Shooting Radio

The video above is the “raw” recording session of the show. It is us, warts and all. The audio link above that is the REAL show.

Intro- “An armed society is a polite society.. and this is the Polite Society Podcast where we support and report on civilian self-defense.”

Paul: Welcome to the polite society podcast recorded on Wednesday, the 26th of March, 2014. I’m Paul Lathrop
Rachel: I’m Rachel Malone and on tonights show we’ll talk with the guys from Action Shooting Radio
John: I’m John Richardson, and we’ll talk about self-defense news
Rob: I’m Rob Morse and we have our weekly stories of defensive gun and a tips and tricks segment with David Cole.
Rachel: so climb aboard
John: strap in
Rob: and hang on!
Paul: Episode 223 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.
Show intro music.

Seg 1
Personal news from each participant
Paul: The only thing gun related I got to do since the last time we recorded was to inform an officer of the Joplin PD that I was carrying. He told me thanks!

John: No gun news to report but I did book my room for the NRA Annual Meeting in Indianapolis which is being held April 25-27. If you are anywhere near Indy, I’d suggest trying to at least make a day trip of it. As Rob can attest, it is a great experience.

Rachel: Nothing much. Just staffed the Appleseed booth at the national AG&AG conference in Waco Thursday through Sunday, had my County convention on Saturday (and was responsible for some drama there), a bunch of activists I trained did better at making stuff happen in their conventions than I did in mine, and now I’m prepping for the Appleseed shoot I’m shoot bossing in San Antonio this weekend. Working with Texas Law Shield on some projects with TFF. Nothing to see here, just everyday work….


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Seg 2- News

“I will not comply” Rant

I personally love the “I will not comply” attitude when it comes to confiscation of firearms. It after all is the one final answer that we all can give that lets the politicians know the really very limited power that they do have. However there are a few things that I would like to bring out and explore around this. #1 If you say it, mean it, and know what it means. Unfortunately there are a lot of “mall ninjas” that hang around the firearms and Second Amendment arena. They want the toys, they want the cool stuff, but when it comes time to do the work they are no where to be found. These are the same people who when you ask, “Are you an NRA member?” give you some BS answer about not wanting to be on a list or being angry about something the NRA did in the mid 60’s to mid 80’s. You then ask if they are a SAF member and they give you a blank stare, trying to think of what the SAF is. A lot of these people are now the ones screaming out “Molon Labe! I will not comply!”

Let’s explore what will – and I did say WILL happen when you don’t comply.

1) – They will come for you. Eventually some form of law enforcement will show up, and if you are lucky you will get a knock on your door and your stuff will be confiscated and you will go to jail. If you are unlucky the door will explode open and the shock troops will come in and take the house or your place of business in a no-knock raid.

#2) If you think that the weapons charge is the only thing that they will charge you with (should you survive the arrest) then you are sorely mistaken. Should it come to the point where they are starting to confiscate weapons they are going to try to make all arrests look like they are going after the dregs of society. Have you ever been a little late filing with the IRS? Did you once have a little bit too much to drink before driving home and plead that down to a misdemeanor? Have you always returned every library book on time? They are going to dig VERY deep before the raid to make sure that they can make you look bad when they parade you in front of the media.

#3) The rest of the gun owning public won’t charge in and break you out of jail. At least at the very beginning the rest of us will be worried about ourselves and what we are are doing to keep our families safe. We will see the storm clouds brewing and be preparing for the storm. Let’s go back to the pre revolutionary war period. The shot heard ‘round the world was not the British regulars first attempt at confiscation. The Boston Massacre occurred 5 years before the battle of Lexington and Concord. I do not expect a 5 year build up, but it happened then, and I don’t expect 1 incident to bring the ire of 100 million plus gun owners to the surface immediately.

4) If you say it, and you mean it, know that many, many of us stand with you. Even with all that I have said, and all of the horribleness that will fall upon those that are victimised first know that there really are many of us in the 100 plus million gun owners that truly do stand with you. I know that Anthony Colandro meant it when he said it. There are many more whom I believe when I hear them say it. I hope that soon our voices will reach the right places and true change can happen. We ARE winning the fight for our rights, slowly and with some setbacks, but we are winning. I believe there will come a time in my lifetime when the 2nd Amendment will be my carry permit, and the 14th Amendment will be my reciprocity agreement. But for now we are threatened in many areas with laws that would make criminals of us.

In every battle there are casualties. Every soldier that volunteers to put on the uniform for our country knows that they could be injured or killed in their service. What I am asking is for every gun owner to become a soldier for our rights. It could be costly for you. You could be arrested, you could lose your reputation. You could lose a lot more. Know this before taking up the cause. If you say “I will not comply” and “MOLON LABE” then in my opinion you MUST belong to the NRA and The SAF. You MUST be registered to vote and YOU MUST VOTE! We have a chance to turn things our direction this November peaceably, but of you are not participating you are nothing but a mall ninja in the 2A world wanting the cool stuff without doing any of the work that comes with it.

End of rant.

James Kaleda needs our support.  Do it here, and I will ask when I meet you. John?  Rachel?  Paul?  Susan?  http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/james-kaleda-s-legal-defense-fund

Connecticut Citizens Defense League has a rally scheduled on April 5th in Hartford Connecticut  Connecticut deserves our support. http://www.ccdl.us/aboutus/events/277-gun-rights-rally

Mail in your NRA ballot too!

Paul- A California state senator who both represents San Francisco, and who enthusiastically authored gun control legislation was arrested after he asked for campaign donations in exchange for introducing an undercover FBI agent to an arms trafficker.  The allegations against State Sen. Leland Yee were outlined in an FBI affidavit in support of a criminal complaint. The affidavit accuses Yee of conspiracy to deal firearms without a license and to illegally import firearms.  Yee is also accused wire fraud for accepting tens of thousands of dollars in campaign contributions and cash payments to provide introductions, help a client get a contract and influence legislation.  Yee discussed helping the FBI agent get weapons worth $500,000 to $2.5 million, including shoulder fired automatic weapons and missiles, and took him through the entire process of getting them from a Muslim separatist group in the Philippines to the United States. http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/fbi-california-state-sen-leland-yee-arrested-23068331

Rob’s comment- Timothy Sullivan, a notoriously corrupt Tammany Hall politician,

John-  John Lott said “Our soldiers need protection on base.. and should be armed. Currently, soldiers on military bases are not allowed to carry guns. Indeed, the military specifically forbids personnel from carrying firearms for personal protection except when “a credible and specific threat against [military] personnel [exists] in that region.”

That sounds like the same “justifiable need” statement they use in California, New Jersey and Maryland.  That is why, during the Navy yard shooting, the unarmed soldiers, sailors  and marines could do nothing but cower as the shooter fired round after round. For perspective, military bases have relatively few military police since crime rates on bases are normally low.  And it was a similar story in 2009 at Fort Hood. Maj. Nidal Hasan was unchallenged as he stood on a desk and kept shooting down victim after victim in work cubicles at Fort Hood, Texas. http://triblive.com/opinion/featuredcommentary/5795440-74/bases-ducks-military#ixzz2x6Y8Gdcu

Rachel- Don’t put your faith in judges.  Washington DC resident Mark Witaschek was convicted of having unlawful ammunition for a muzzle loading rifle.. the same rifle that does not require registration in DC.  That means you have to register your rifle that doesn’t require registration.. so you can register the rifle’s ammunition.  The judge didn’t know guns from gorillas.  Judge Robert Morin sentenced Mr. Witaschek to time served, a $50 fine and required him to enroll with the Metropolitan Police Department’s firearm offenders’ registry within 48 hours.  The case will cost Witaschek hundreds of thousands of dollars. http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/mar/26/miller-exclusive-shock-verdict-mark-witaschek-guil/

John -You may now record the police in Illinois after this court ruling from the Illinois supreme court. A non-english speaker was imprisoned for over 20 months after recording a conversation with a court reporter supervisor. http://www.gunssavelife.com/?p=11655

Rob- About 150 attendees filed into Lansingburgh’s Grace Baptist Church this past Sunday to hear Pastor John Koletas’ hymn and enter a raffle to win an AR-15 rifle, the Times Union reported.

Pastor Koletas preached in front of a large American flag and had a right-to-bear-arms-text hanging on the walls of the church.  This is at least the second raffle of the month.  “We have our Constitution to protect us, but we have our liberty to protect ourselves,” Koletas said during Sunday’s service.  Churchgoers were relatively calm and quiet as they filled the pews and submitted their names for the raffle.  42-year-old Schenectady resident Ron Stafford won the rifle, valued between $800 and $1,200.

Paul -If you were so foolish as to trust an Illinois politician, please please think again.  The first batch of carry license denial letters have gone out from the Illinois State Police.  As feared, the letters  do not specify which agency filed an objection, the contents of the objection or specifically how the individual is a danger to themselves and/or public safety. In short, what we’ve got is a “may issue” licensing scheme, crafted by House Speaker Michael Madigan, where anti-gun local officials can reject license applications for any reason at all.  NRA’s lawyers are putting together their legal response. http://www.gunssavelife.com/?p=11646


John- The National Shooting Sports Foundation does not send out alerts or “take action” notices very often. In fact, they’re rare. When they do urge action, it’s usually a significant issue.  Last week the NSSF asked gun owners to contact their senators to stop Sen. Dianne Feinstein’s attempt to force the Administration into issuing an executive order banning the importation of certain semi-auto modern sporting rifles. http://thegunwriter.blogs.heraldtribune.com/16133/senators-want-exec-order-banning-import-of-semi-auto-rifles/  (Rob has a comment)

John -This is why you lock your doors and try to retreat.  A Houston firefighter returning home from a night of St. Patrick’s Day partying was shot and killed by his next-door neighbor when he tried to enter the wrong house.  27 year old Sam Keen was asked to leave the bar so his friends put him in a cab.  The cab stopped next door, rather than in front of Keen’s house. Keen couldn’t find his way home and entered the wrong house.  http://www.cbsnews.com/news/off-duty-houston-firefighter-shot-dead-by-neighbor/

Rob – Idaho is part of a growing number of states that are seeking to nullify federal firearms laws. Congratulations to Idaho on being among the first to actually pass a nullification bill. Their bill, S1332, was signed by the governor last week and applies to future federal law. Specifically, this bill is designed to “protect Idaho law enforcement officers from being directed, through federal executive orders, agency orders, statutes, laws, rules, or regulations enacted or promulgated on or after the effective date of this act, to violate their oath of office and Idaho citizens’ rights under Section 11, Article I, of the Constitution of the State of Idaho.” Violators will be fined $1,000.

Rachel –  A couple weeks ago, we had Keith Morgan from WVCDL on the show to talk about the success of their group’s intense efforts to get SB317 through the WV legislature. SB317 is the state preemption bill for gun carry laws. After we spoke, they had to engage in another battle when there was a question about whether the governor would actually sign the bill. They’ve been working feverishly to get his signature – that finally happened yesterday. Kudos to the grassroots activists at WVCDL.

West Virginia Gov. Earl Ray Tomblin’s statement: “This evening, I signed Senate Bill 317 because I support our 2nd Amendment rights, and I also see the need for uniform and consistent gun laws throughout the state. I believe this legislation will give municipalities clarity for regulating firearms in their facilities.”


John DGU- Near Detroit, a Jet’s Pizza delivery driver shot back after he was robbed at gunpoint at about 11 p.m. Saturday in Redford.  The victim was making a delivery to a residence where two men posed as customers.  One of the men grabbed the driver and the other man showed a handgun and demanded the victim’s money.  The legally armed delivery driver shot the suspects.  The uninjured driver left the area and called 911.  The robbers also fled in a waiting vehicle. One of the men was later found at a local hospital with multiple gunshot wounds, and another man was arrested Monday night, police reports said.  The injured suspect, Clarence Sanders, 27, of Detroit, was arraigned Monday in the hospital on a charge of armed robbery, according to Redford Police.

A warrant request is being prepared on the second suspect.



Rachel DGU- An adult man was killed in a shooting in Bakersfield, California and another was escorted from a home and  placed in a police vehicle. The Bakersfield Police Department said that at about 4:51 a.m., Shawn Christian Ibarra, 35, armed himself with a breaker bar and kicked in the front door. He was then shot by another man in the house, which resulted in the death of Ibarra. Ibarra was on Post Release Community Supervision.. commonly called “early release” from prison.  Police believe the homeowners and Ibarra knew one another. http://www.turnto23.com/news/local-news/person-suffered-major-injuries-in-incident-in-northeast-bakersfield-police-say-032414

Paul DGU- An intruder called 911 after he was shot during a break in attempt, in Iberia Parish, Louisiana.  Charles Prince attempted to break into a balcony bedroom at a home on East Admiral Doyle Drive.  Prince woke the victim, who grabbed a handgun and fired 2 shots at Prince, hitting him once in the arm.  The homeowner called the Sheriff’s Office around 8:39 p.m. and explained that he had shot at an intruder.  Shortly afterward, the Sheriff received a 911 call from Prince who said he had been shot near the victim’s home.  Prince was transported to the Iberia Medical Center, and will be charged with Unauthorized Entry of an Inhabited Dwelling.


Rob DGU- Michael Huston, 26, faces one count of residential burglary and one count of possession of burglary tools, both felonies, according to the Kane County Illinois Sheriff’s office. Huston broke into a house and was shot by the homeowner.  Huston was found by sheriff’s deputies a few blocks away from the burglary and taken to Delnor Community Hospital with non-life-threatening injuries.  The 43-year-old homeowner was alone at home at the time, and has a valid Illinois FOID card.


Gun Quotes
“A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity.” – Sigmund Freud

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Seg 3 InterviewsAction shooting radio

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Segment 4 DGUs

Rob DGU NSF- A group of boys, one as young as 13, tried breaking into a home Sunday on Bedford Street in Detroit. His house was robbed the day before, but this time Gregory Lindsey was home. Mister Lindsey’s son was downstairs doing homework when he heard banging on the door. Outside, five or six young boys were trying to get in. The homeowner took his semi- auto 22 and ran out the front door. “Lots of them scattered, but I caught one,” Lindsey said. For 20 minutes the teen sat on Lindsey’s porch at gunpoint, until police arrived. “He was kind of scared but it’s a lesson that needs to be learned because too many kids are going to people’s houses and getting shot now… Whoever got through that door would absolutely have been shot.”

John- We have the links to each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com if you want to share them with a friend.

John, mention Dave Cole for Tips and Tricks
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Tips and tricks segment Dave Cole!


Segment 5 Show close

Listener e-mail discussion

Paul : Charlie Foxtrot sent me a message letting me know that for those that are missing the old GRRN forums that there are new forums up at www.gunnation.us all former GRRN forum participants are encouraged to check it out.

Rachel: Email from Chris
Hi Everyone,

I haven’t had a reason to write to the show before but something Rob said on episode 222 compelled me to compose this. After mentioning the James Kaleda situation again and that his defense fund was coming up short I feel it would be wise to bring one of my few moments of shear brilliance to your attention. I call it $22 for 2A.

It really started about 2 weeks ago when the phone rang while listening to another podcast that just happened to be discussing this injustice at that exact moment . While checking the caller ID I realized the number 2 and letter A are on the same key. Thats when the light bulb came on.

Here’s how it works – it’s sort of a challenge to all those keyboard commandos out there. What you do is wait until the lottery jackpot gets a little bigger before buying a ticket, maybe leave the range with some extra ammo instead of having to buy and use an entire case each time. Take that money you didn’t spend and send $22 to the James Kaleda defense fund. I’m sure Rob will put it the show notes for those that may be google challenged.

It goes without saying that James stuck his neck out for anyone, anywhere, that owns a firearm or believes in the right to self defense. He deserves our support. I’ve donated and I don’t even live in the US.

Progressive socialism – the kind that seeks to strip you of your rights and make everyone dependant on government knows no borders. It’s like a septic pile of black goo that oozes it’s way around the world. When one nation has a brain cramp on firearms laws it would not surprise me if some faceless beauracrat at the UN is immediately spreading the word to other countries – saying…”You should try this.”. The border between Canada and the USA is really just a line on the map used to collect taxes. When something happens in one country the other is likely to follow. I don’t need to mention what is going on in Connecticut, New York, and our own issues with the CZ-858/Swiss Classic Green and Canada’s largest street gang – the RCMP.

Thanks for mentioning us and our troubles north of the 49th. It reassuring to know we’re not alone.

In the words of a great Canadian comic, Red Green, “Remember I’m pullin’ for ya; were all in this together.”.

Until next time,

Chris – Typing from the Peoples Republic of Canada.

John: The Polite Society download app is out on Amazon for Android and the I-phone app is in I-tunes.  They are located by our old name, Politics and guns.  Hot links are in our show notes.

Rob: We’re experimenting with the show all the time.  Please send us an e-mail to tell us what you like or dislike.  You can contact the show by e-mail.  Paul@politics and guns.com, Rachel, Rob, John, Susan, or Onair to reach all of us.  Call 605-215-1438605-215-1438 to hear your voice on the air!

John: That’s 605- 215- 1438605- 215- 1438

Paul: Roadgunner’s Mag 40 class in Conway, Arkansas at Shoot House USA is scheduled for May 15th thru 18th 2014 you can register here.

Rachel: Also please check out Kathy Jackson’s Cornered Cat training classes. Her next class is at Carry On Colorado starting April 4 in Casle Rock, Colorado.

Paul: John, do you have any post on your blog you want to mention?

John: I did a post earlier this week about the Jefferson County Arkansas Sheriffs’ Department. You know how anti-gun police and sheriffs’ departments have gun buybacks? Well, they had a gun auction that netted them over $125,000! I call it the anti-anti-gun buyback. Even better was was this statement from the JCSD: “Today’s auction provided citizens an informative, secure, and safe way to buy firearms at a bargain.” Well said, JCSD, well said.

Rachel: Also please check out the shooters club by Bob Mayne and Ben Branam.  For $75.00 a year, $6.25 a month, you get 24/7 access to some fantastic training and audio podcasts that you can’t get anywhere else.  Bob is giving away his M&P Shield to one lucky member.

Paul: Listen to other podcasts on thethe Crusader Podcast Network, and check out http://www.ahib.us/  That’s Almost Heaven Internet Broadcasting out of Bayard BAY-ARD, West Virginia.  They stream the Polite Society Podcast from 7 to 9 am weekdays!

Rob: Join the National Rifle Association, Second Amendment Foundation, Gun Owners of America and Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership.  Joining two makes you a hero.  Supporting all four makes you a super hero.  Not belonging to any of them means we won’t loan you any ammunition.

John: Join your local civil rights group like the New Jersey Second Amendment Society, Arizona Citizens Defense League, Gun Owners of California, Connecticut Citizens Defense League, Florida Carry,Grass Roots North Carolina,  Georgia Carry, Georgia Gun Owners,Grass Roots North Carolina, Illinois Carry, Michigan Gun Owners , Michigan Open Carry,

Rachel: and Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners, Minnesota Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance, Texas Firearms Freedom, Texas State Rifle Association. Tennessee Firearms Association, West Virginia Citizens Defense League and Wyoming Gun Owners.

Rob: For our Canadian listeners, and their supporters, join the Canadian Shooting Sports Association and the Canadian National Firearms Association
Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast. Until the mid-week show…
Rob: stay safe,
Rachel: be aware,
John: and we’ll see you down the road.

Episode 204 – with Allen Gottlieb, Pete Brownell and Kathy Jackson

Rob: An armed society is a polite society.. and welcome to the Polite Society Podcast where we support and report on civilian self-defense.

Paul: We’re recording today’s episode on Sunday, the 19th of January, 2014. I’m Paul Lathrop
Rob: I’m Rob Morse, on this show we have an interview with Allen Gottlieb and Pete Brownell
Paul: and we have a lots of news and DGUs as well as the return of Kathy Jackson’s Cornered Cat segment, so climb aboard.
Rob: Strap in
Paul: And hang on, episode 204 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.
Show intro music.

Seg 1
Personal news- recovering from SHOT show.

Topic 1 BIG NEWS! The Polite Society Podcast will be running on http://www.ahib.us/ Almost Heaven Internet Broadcasting is a West Virginia internet radio station that has been focusing on local high school sports and is expanding to include topical talk radio. We will be the morning drive show, on from 7 to 9 am weekdays eastern time!

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Seg 2- News
Paul: News #1 – Hollywood producer Harvey Weinstein said he is developing an anti-gun movie with actress Meryl Streep. Weinstein said “I’ll make a movie that makes the National Rifle Association wish they weren’t alive.”  Texas Senator Ted Cruz said “The Hollywood liberal elites, they have their view of things,” “Left-wing propaganda films” rarely do well at the box office and Senator Cruz predicted the movie would be a flop.
My thought is that the same guy who produced ultra-violent movies like Pulp Fiction, Halloween 3 and Kill Bill is suddenly a pacifist and against common citizens having tools for self-defense. The NRA trains firearms safety councilors, “Don’t Be a Victim” instructors, and puts on Women On-Target seminars. I can smell the hypocrisy from here.

Rob: News #2 One of Bloomberg’s MAIG cronies gets sent to jail for a gun crime.  Despite impassioned pleas from family and friends of former Marcus Hook Mayor James Schiliro, a Delaware County Court judge on Monday sent him to jail. Schiliro was sentenced to 10 to 20 months for an alcohol-fueled episode last February in which he had a police car bring a former neighbor – a 20-year-old to whom he said he was attracted – to his home, made him drink wine, and refused to let him leave for 31/2 hours. During the encounter, Schiliro threatened to kill himself and fired a gun into a stack of papers. The man eventually left and later called police… Schiliro is a past member of Bloomberg’s front Mayors Against Illegal guns, also known – thanks to several members of this sort – as Illegal Mayors Against Guns. Schiliro was among 600 local lawmakers who signed a letter to Congress calling for gun-control legislation. His name was dropped from the letter and the MAIG website after his arrest in March.

Paul: News #3 The vast majority of New York county law enforcement has refused to support the New York SAFE act.   Some of the act was declared unconstitutional.  A year after the law was passed, the mandatory registration scheme lacks necessary database software in a failure too reminiscent of the Obamacare website.  Law enforcement officers said the law would do not reduce crime, but could easily trap honest gun owners.

Rob: News  #4 Ruger says it is being forced out of California for sales of its semi-automatic pistols.  “We’re being forced out of the state by the California Department of Justice,” said Ruger CEO Mike Fifer. “The DOJ insists on microstamping, which doesn’t work, and is denying you your rights to have access to these guns.”
California law enforcement agencies are exempt from these state requirements.

Paul: News #5 Very Long time listeners to the show know that I have been incensed by the “Fast and Furious” scandal that the Obama administration wants to go away. This is the DOJ and BATFE operation where guns were intentionally allowed to “walk” across the border after being sold to known straw purchasers.

Now comes word via Forbes Magazine that the whole thing may have been set from the beginning as a secret agreement between the Obama administration and the Sinaloa drug cartel. The Sinaloa would provide information on other drug gangs in return for the US government leaving them to do their business.

The Obama administration has a long history of picking winners and losers economically, now it seems that they are doing the same with terrorist drug smugglers and enemies of governments that border us as well.

Host asks for comments before moving on.
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Hang on everybody, we’ll be right back after the interviews to go over some defensive gun use stories.
Seg 3 Interviews Allan Gottlieb and Pete Brownell
Kathy Jackson’s Cornered Cat Quick Tips
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Segment 4 DGUs
Rob: DGU#1  In Chester PA, a robbery victim pulled a weapon on his attacker outside a Chester bar early Sunday, fatally shooting him. A 31-year-old Chester man with a history of previous arrests was armed with a handgun when he tried to rob 22-year-old Marcus Hook about 12:55 a.m.  Hook had a permit to carry a concealed weapon and exchanged fire with the robber, who carried the gun illegally. Both men were wounded and taken to a local Medical Center.  The robber was pronounced dead at the hospital, while the intended victim and successful self-defense victor was in serious condition.

DGU#2  A male suspect is in stable condition after being shot during a home invasion Saturday night in south Houston [TX], police said. According to the Houston Police Department, the suspect smashed in the front window of the Houston home with a piece of concrete just before 11 p.m.   The homeowner heard the noise and grabbed his gun. He then saw the suspect at his front door. The homeowner shot one time through the window, hitting the suspect in the stomach, police said. The suspect tried to get up and come after the homeowner, who then shot him a second time. The suspect was hit in the hand with the second shot. He was then taken to Ben Taub Hospital in serious but stable condition, police said.

DGU#3  A homeowner shot and killed an intruder in his home early Friday morning. It happened after 3 a.m. at the North-West Phoenix suburb.  The 77-year-old homeowner woke up to discover an intruder in his home. The homeowner grabbed his shotgun and fired once. The suspect, identified as 30-year-old William Thomas Mackey, was pronounced dead at the scene. Police spokesman said Mackey did not appear to be armed. One neighbor who heard the shot said she didn’t think much about it because crime has become a common occurrence in the neighborhood.  Police will forward the case to the Maricopa County Attorney’s Office for review after they conclude their investigation.

DGU#4 Also in Phoenix, Arizona, a 70 year old jewelry store owner put a young robber in the hospital.  The woman in her late twenties entered the store in a northern Phoenix suburb and tried to rob the store at gunpoint.  The store owner shot the thief several times and she fled the store.  The intended victim was slightly injured while the thief is hospitalized in critical condition.

DGU#5 From The Blaze and sent in to us from multiple listeners.
An armed man entered a Orrville, Ala., Dollar General on Thursday, waved his gun in the air and threatened to kill everyone, AL.com reports. Though motive is unclear, he never got the chance to hurt anyone because a customer carrying a concealed handgun neutralized him with a deadly shot.

Dallas County Sheriff Harris Huffman Jr. told WSFA-TV that the gunman held a cashier and customer at gunpoint, forcing them toward a break room area. It was at this point that the customer reportedly drew his firearm and shot the suspect one time in the chest. The entire incident took less than five minutes, police say.  The gunman was pronounced dead on the scene.

The sheriff said the customer is not currently facing any charges over the shooting death, however, investigators are working to confirm he had a valid concealed carry permit. Open carry is legal in Alabama, but a permit is required to carry a concealed handgun.

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Any extra short topics or humor
Listener e-mail discussion

Email from Marc in Ohio
I know you guys are busy with shot show but I just had a chat with my kids about the scenario of an active shooter in their school. Maybe you can touch on this in the future.

I asked my kids what they would do if someone came to the school shooting. They answered, the school calls out a code word like “Red” (to protect their actual code I’m using “red”). They turn off the lights close the curtains and hide quietly together in a corner.

I asked them to pretend to be the shooter for a minute. Your intent is to shoot kids. Where do you find kids at a school. They said classrooms. I asked them if it’s easier to shoot a moving target or one holding still. They answered a moving target is harder to hit. Is it easier to hit 10 small targets spread out or all the targets in a small single pile. I asked them why would they hide where a bad guy would expect to find them and hold still in a large group. My kids stared at me in wonderment.

I have instructed my kids to leave the building at any cost. I think it’s better to leave and get to a phone to call the police. Running from a shooter is better than holding still. Being away from the group would be my preference.

Another thing to consider is the school isn’t going to tell the kids what’s happening. It’s going to be hard for my kids to make a judgment call that goes against the teachers.

I have had some active shooter training from the local Sheriffs office. The sheriff told us they won’t do anything other than set up a Perimeter until a swat team arrives. That could take an hour in my remote burg. I don’t want my kid hiding defenseless for an hour. Why is the first instinct a lock down? As you can see I strongly disagree on the lockdown idea in an active shooter situation.

What are your guys thoughts?
Marc from Ohio…..again.
Rob: I have an opinion.  The sheriff is 10 years behind and the huddle and pray response is no long considered best practice.  Law enforcement is now trained to immediately enter the building, and potential victims are not trained to exit immediately.

We have Politics and Guns Podcast download applications out on Amazon for Android and I-phone app is here.

You can contact the show by e-mail.  Paul@politics and guns.com, Toby, Sticks, Rob, Susan, or Onair to reach all of us.  Call 605-215-1438 to hear your voice on the air!
Tom: That’s 605- 215-1438 and operators are standing by.  Or they were before they threatened to go on strike because of low pay.

Roadgunner’s Mag 40 class in Conway, Arkansas at Shoot House USA is scheduled for May 15th thru 18th 2014 you can register at http://nighthawkcustomtraining.com/classes.html

Also please check out the shooters club by Bob Mayne and Ben Branam.  For $75.00 a year you get 24/7 access to some fantastic training and audio podcasts that you can’t get anywhere else.  Listen to other podcasts on the Gun Rights Radio Network, the Crusader Podcast Network, and give Roadgunner a listen.

Join the National Rifle Association, Second Amendment Foundation, Gun Owners of America and Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership.  Joining two makes you a hero.  Supporting all four makes you a super hero.  Not belonging to any of them means you’re a chump.

Join your local civil rights group like the New Jersey Second Amendment Society, Arizona Citizens Defense League,Connecticut Citizens Defense League, Illinois Carry, Michigan Gun Owners , Michigan Open Carry, and Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners, Minnesota Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance, Texas Firearms Freedom,Texas State Rifle Association. Tennessee Firearms Association

Paul, That wraps up another episode of Polite Society Podcast. Until the Monday show…

Rob, stay safe,
Paul, be aware,
Rob, and we’ll see you down the road.

Eposode 198 with Valinda Rowe and Jeff Knox

Paul: Hi and welcome to the Politics and Guns Podcast recorded on Friday, January 10th, 2014. I’m Paul Lathrop.
Rob: I’m Rob Morse and we’ll also talk with our guest Valina Roe about Concealed carry coming to Illinois, and Jeff Knox about the simple things we can do to make schools safer. So climb aboard.
Paul: Strap in
Rob: And hang on, episode 198 of the Politics and Guns Podcast starts right now.
Show intro music.

Seg 1
Catch up with each participant and humorously ridicule the no-shows.
Host asks for comments before moving on.
paul went to GunUp in Sioux Falls and bought some more Glock 40 mags. I fell in love with a 30 cal Bullpup.
Topic 1
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Seg 2- News
Host asks for comments before moving on.
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Rob- Colorado Republican state Sen. Ted Harvey wants to allow school teachers and staff to seek training and then bring firearms into school with them.  Senator Harvey has a son in high school and his wife is a school teacher.  He said the latests shooting cemented his opinion.  The latest Colorado school murders were stopped in 80 seconds by an armed school resource officers and an unarmed security guard.  “I don’t want my wife and child to be sitting ducks,” Harvey said.
One student was murdered in this latest attack.  Maybe she would have been saved if staff were armed.

Paul – At the other extreme, Democrat State Senator Kevin de Leon from California says it is a public danger to let common citizens buy ammunition without a background check  and his new legislation proposes to fix that problem.
Ah..what problem is that, Senator?  Ignore that fact that most drug gangs import thousand of pounds of contraband each year.  Ignore that millions of rounds of ammunition routinely move across the border for legal purposes.  This security theater will sell in California.  Senator de Leon has a future with the TSA when he leaves office.
Oh, did I mention that you would need to pay a yearly fee to purchase ammunition in the once-golden state?

Rob- This next news story is a two-fer.  First, Bloomberg has tossed 30 thousand dollars into the Washington state campaign for gun control by backing initiative 594.  The initiative requires a background check for all firearms transfers, without exception.  We’ve discussed the legal that come up from such measures when  young people under supervision shoot a gun belonging to someone else because they are not old enough to legally own firearms.
Second, the Washington news paper, the Daily Olympian, ran an editorial blaming the NRA (who has not contributed to the campaign) but ignoring Bloombergs donations.  Why let the truth get in the way of a good opinion column.

Paul- The civil rights group Wisconsin Carry is suing the city of Madison Wisconsin over the city’s prohibition of carrying firearms on public transportation.  Quote, “We do know that people who live in high-crime neighborhoods tend to be lower income and tend to rely on mass transit, so for those people to be prohibited from carrying is really a disservice to them and puts them at greater risk.”  That sums up the bigotry of citizen disarmament.

Rob – Heading south from Wisconsin, Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel decided not to appeal a federal judge’s ruling that allows gun shops in the windy city.  “The courts have been clear from the Supreme Court on down as it relates to people’s access to guns.”  The mayor asked the judge for a six month delay so he and the city council can draft regulate gun shops, but Emanuel wouldn’t specify any of the regulations he has in mind except the gun shops shouldn’t be near schools.
By my calculation, that puts the gun shops a half-mile out in Lake Michigan.

Paul – This in from the Politics-and-Guns legal department, the Second Amendment Foundation and Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs today asked the U.S. Supreme Court to hear the appeal in the challenge to New Jersey’s unconstitutional carry laws.
The petition was prepared by attorneys Alan Gura and David Jensen to resolve the court split on the right to bear arms for personal protection outside the home.  Scott Bach said, “So far the U.S. Supreme Court has declined to hear the issue in other cases, but this case may be different due to the extreme nature of New Jersey’s law, which effectively denies law-abiding citizens their fundamental right to self-defense outside the home.”

Rob -From our Good-Cop file, Officer Lee Smith of the Florence Alabama Police Department offers free gun safety classes to those interested in concealed carry.  Smith said the classes started seven years ago. We want to educate everyone who makes the choice to carry a firearm for defense.  We want to give them all the tools to make them safe and the community safe.”  Gun safety classes are divided into three levels offered monthly, and hundreds of residents have taken the courses.
That is proactive community policing.  Good job.

Paul- From our Bad Cop file, witnesses came forward after a Sheriff’s deputy shot 13 year old Andy Lopez of Santa Rosa, California.  The 8th grader was carrying a toy rifle when deputy Erick Gelhaus called the teenager.  The boy turned and the deputy fired eight rounds, killing the boy.  Witnesses say there was only three seconds between the deputy Gelhaus calling out to the teenager and when the deputy started shooting.
The boy’s parents filed a federal lawsuit against Gelhaus and Sonoma County seeking unspecified damages.

Rob- Russel from Kansas sent a link to us to a post from Canada’s National Firearms Association

Help needed. In aid of an Ontario Court case where the crown is taking issue with the number of firearms held by an individual (over 50), I am in urgent need of photographs of Canadian gun rooms/collections. While it is helpful if the person(s) providing such photos was willing to identify him or herself, it is not strictly necessary. The defence wants to demonstrate to the court that it is not unusual for some firearms collectors to own large numbers of firearms. If you can take a few photos of your gun room/collection to aid in this effort, please send them directly to me at: Sheldon_Clare@shaw.ca Neither the owner nor the firearms need to be identified – the point is to demonstrate that there is widespread ownership of large numbers of firearms in Canada.
The time frame is urgent as this will be in court in by January 15.
Sheldon Clare,
Canada’s National Firearms Association

Hang on everybody, we’ll be right back after this and close out the show.

Seg 3 Interview with Valinda Rowe, spokesperson for Illinois Carry
Congratulations on CCW to Illinois and Gun stores to Chicago
You’ve been in this struggle for many years. How did it start?
Bring us up to date.
CCL licenses can now be applied for in Illinois, but the law is let’s just say a little less than clear. Is there an easy way to find out where someone who is able to get a CCL can and can’t do?
Cook county thought they would inconvenience gun owners, but they also inconvenience gun owners in every legislative district.
Can you talk a little bit about IGOLD, what it is and why it is more important than ever?
How can gun owners in Illinois learn about Illinois Carry?
The process of application and 16 hours of training.
$150 in application fees.
Do instructors already have their license?
How much does training cost? About $100 for concealed carry. Another $100 for the NRA basic handgun safety course.
Read more about Illinois Carry at http://www.illinoiscarry.com/

Record with Jeff Knox, director of the Firearms Coalition
Schools- walk through for the unthinkable
Is the front and back entrance to campus alarmed?
Can you secure the door?
Can you summon help?
Can you stop people from seeing into the room?
Has the staff discussed how they should respond?
Has the staff ever exorcised their plan?
If the windows are large or low set, do the windows remain a barrier after being shot?
A large and low set window is a locked door where any bullet acts as the key!
Are there video feeds so that hallways can be seen from a central office and/or remote police station?
Are there armed responders on campus?
Are there armed responders in the neighborhood?
Have the armed first responders had an annual drill on campus just like a fire drill?
See more of Jeff at http://www.firearmscoalition.org/
and at http://www.wnd.com/author/jknox/
Host asks for comments before moving on.
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Segment 4 DGUs and Show close
The DGU last Friday in Vista California-
After talking to the restaurant owner who shot two thieves, the first news reports were inaccurate. The two thieves got out of prison in mid-December. They had already robbed two other stores at gunpoint before they entered this restaurant. The employees of the other stores were not armed. The thieves discharged their weapons in one case to make the clerk open the cash drawer. This time was different.

I met with the employees and some of the customers who were in the restaurant during the robbery. The thieves entered the rear of the restaurant through a rear door that is normally locked. They gained entry by waiting until one of the employees left and then threatened the employee at gunpoint to let them in. The thieves next confronted the owner’s wife who was in the kitchen. The tone of her voice was enough to make the owner suspicious, and he retrieved his firearm. The firearm was a 45 loaded with 8 rounds.

The owner was reluctant to shoot, and yelled for the thieves to drop their guns. They turned toward him rather than drop their weapons, so he fired. They ran. He fired again as they pointed their weapons behind them. Four of his eight rounds hit, though one was a through shot that remained on premises.

The owner did not want to be recorded. He did want to go shooting. I’ll try again when we get back from shot.

Any extra short topics or humor
Listener e-mail discussion

Paul: We have Politics and Guns Podcast download applications out on Amazon for Android and I-phone is coming.

Rob: You can contact the show by e-mail.  Paul@politics and guns.com, Toby, Sticks, Rob, Susan, or Onair to reach all of us.  Call 605-215-1438 to hear your voice on the air!
Paul: That’s 605- 215- 1438 and operators are standing by.

Paul:Roadgunner’s Mag 40 class in Conway, Arkansas at Shoot House USA is scheduled for May 15th thru 18th 2014  Registration is open.

Also please check out the shooters club by Bob Mayne and Ben Branam.  For $75.00 a year you get 24/7 access to some fantastic training and audio podcasts that you can’t get anywhere else.  Listen to other podcasts on the Gun Rights Radio Network, the Crusader Podcast Network, and give Roadgunner a listen.

Rob: Join the National Rifle Association, Second Amendment Foundation, Gun Owners of America and Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership.  Joining two makes you a hero.  Supporting all four makes you a super hero.  Not belonging to any of them means you’re a chump.

Paul: Join your local civil rights group like the New Jersey Second Amendment Society, Arizona Citizens Defense League,Michigan Gun Owners , Michigan Open Carry, and Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners, Minnesota Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance, Texas Firearms Freedom,Texas State Rifle Association. Tennessee Firearms Association, Connecticut Citizens Defense League

Paul, we will probably change the show name.  Any thoughts?

Paul: That wraps up another episode of Politics and Guns. Until the mid-week show from SHOT…
Rob, stay safe,
Paul, be aware,
Rob, and we’ll see you down the road.

Episode 194 – Talking Lead and 605-215-1438

Paul: Hi and welcome to the Politics and Guns Podcast recorded on Sunday, the 29th of December, 2013. I’m Paul Lathrop
Tom: I’m Tom and on tonights show we interview Zeke and Lefthand from the Talking Lead Podcast
Rob: I’m Rob Morse and we’ll also have large news segment
Toby: I’m Toby. We also have many Defensive Gun Use Stories
Rob:So climb aboard
Tom: Strap in
Paul: And hang on, episode 194 of the Politics and Guns Podcast starts right now.
Show intro music.

Seg 1- Catch up
Toby: My dad came out of surgery. Thank you for your prayers. Melisa bought you a computer interface for his Chronograph and a 1911 blue gun for training. He also got the Sig Sauer 1911 chambered in 22 cal. It shoots well. Also a 22 conversion for his AR. My Desert Eagle might be coming back. It is chambered in 50 action express, so might convert to 44 magnum.

Rob: I took another family shooting out in the desert.  It was my family plus a dad, his daughter aged 12, and his son age 11.  I shot another IDPA match. IDPA looks like this if you’re really good.  A friend received some threatening phone calls, so she came over for some discussion about self defense and how she could respond.  Lights, locks and cameras first.  Firearms second.

Tom:  I did not get a handgun for Christmas, but I did get a 410/22 folding rifle.  It is a backpack gun with a beautiful walnut stock.  I received a GoPro camera and electronic hearing protection along with Massad Ayoob’s book, “the truth about self-protection”.  Also received a cleverly built range bag/ back pack.  I gave my mom a security camera and my dad a pistol.  Check our facebook page for pictures of our gun gifts.

Paul: Spent Christmas on the road earning a bonus so we can go to SHOT show.  Nothing earth shattering, getting ready for SHOT show,  if it is possible I am even more excited about SHOT this year than last.  In doing research for the show ran across a leak that the new Glock is supposedly a single stack .380 that is TINY! From the pics I have seen it is only just double the size of a Zippo lighter. I am going to withhold judgement until I can shoot the thing at SHOT show, but I am not thinking I am going to be impressed.

Wondering why we aren’t getting more calls to the voicemail line, that number is 605-215-1438.  By the way the number is 605-215-1438.  Did I mention that the number is 605-215-1438?

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Segment 2- NEWS

Rob – South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley received a 9mm handgun for Christmas, the Beretta Px4 Storm.  This caused several of the anti-gun crowd to lose bladder and bowel control when they said online that they hopes Governor Haley uses the gun to shoot one of her family members.  That passes for reasoned debate with gun haters.

Toby – A washed out Ohio lawmaker who voted against the human right of self-defense now wants to run for a seat on Ohio Supreme Court. Our listeners in Ohio should belong to the Buckeye Firearms Association and receive their e-mail updates.http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/

Paul – Musician Toby Keith banned guns at his restaurant in Woodbridge, Va.  I’m sure that will play to some of the Washington DC bureaucrats living in northern Virginia, but it will probably keep some Virginia gun owners  from entering his business.  Please let us know if you’re in the area and chose to take your group to another place to eat because of Keith’s no-guns policy.

Tom – Concealed carry classes in Illinois have begun.  The laws in Illinois are going to be extremely complicated to obey.  For example, you can not carry at a large public gathering, but you could stand outside the crowd, or walk through an outdoor art exhibit as long as you did not stop.  The litigation is only beginning.

Rob – When Federal land-use-fees stopped in Josephine County, Oregon, the sheriff’s office effectively closed.  Citizens formed their own self-protection and courtesy call societies led by a retired law enforcement officer.  One commenter said they like the idea since they know the citizens will follow the law.

Toby – A reminder that we have a legal system, not a justice system.  A Pennsylvania state trooper was treated for depression seven years ago.  The trooper’s doctor cleared him to return to work.  Though he is allowed to carry a firearm on duty, the trooper is forbidden from carrying off duty, and he can’t own a firearm due to federal prohibitions due to his history of mental health treatment.  The feds refuses to return his right of self-defense.

Paul – In still gun free Chicago, one person was shot dead and seven wounded on Christmas day.  These events vary from murder to multiple drive by shootings.  Another example that more gun laws don’t reduce crime.

Tom – Connecticut gun owners waited in line to register their guns and magazines as new laws take effect in 2014.  Elections have consequences, and there are jobs in other states.

Rob – Also in Connecticut, Economist Mark Gius from Quinnipiac University published a new study titled ”An examination of the effects of concealed weapons laws and assault weapons bans on state-level murder rates”.  The study determined the effect of state assault weapons bans and concealed weapons laws on the murder rates from 1980 to 2009.  Restrictive states had higher gun-related murder rates than other states, and assault weapons bans were ineffective.

Toby – Our third story from Connecticut, gun owners in Bridgeport protested the lenient treatment given a local police officer.  The officer shot himself in the leg while sitting at a local bagel shop.  Reports say the gun was not his service weapon.  Demonstrators say the officer should have been charged with unlawful discharge of a firearm and reckless endangerment.  “Had that been me, my permit would have been revoked, my firearms would have been seized, and I would have been arrested on the spot.”

While I’m sorry the officer was injured, but there certainly appears to be two separate firearms laws for law enforcement and for civilians.

Paul – A bill filed and ready when the Missouri Senate returns to session would require parents with students in public schools to disclose if the have firearms in their home.  This is an extension of the medical theory of gun violence which says we need to identify and quarantine gun owners.  Fortunately, the same bill proposed by the same democrat Senator did not advance in prior years. Thank you to Greg from, Bremmerton for sending this link via email.

Tom – Also sent in from listener Greg in Bremmerton, AK 47 inventor Mikhail Kalashnikov dies aged 97.  http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-25497013

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Seg 3 Interview with Zeke and Lefthand from the Talking Lead Podcast
Hang on everybody, we’ll be right back after this and close out the show.
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Segment 4- DGUs and Show close

Tom – DGU1- A Liberty County [TX] man says he was forced to fatally shoot his 35-year-old son after his son turned from beating his own wife to attacking him. The shooting took place at the home of the father, 67-year-old Billy Wilkey, at 723 County Road 2061, near Hardin… Authorities say that Friday afternoon, Wilkey’s son, Flint and his wife got into an argument at their home. To avoid further trouble, the wife went to the home of her father-in-law. The younger Wilkey followed. They got into another argument. Flint Wilkey left and then came back again. This time, the altercation got physical. According to witnesses, Flint hit his wife with his fist and pulled her hair. He pulled his wife outside and tried to get her into his truck. Billy Wilkey tried to stop his son from beating his wife, when he says the younger Flint turned on him. The elder Wilkey fired one shot from a 9mm handgun, which struck his son.

Rob- DGU 2- According to the Marshall County Alabama Sheriff’s Office, a homeowner caught two men stealing scrap metal from his property Friday afternoon and confronted them with his rifle. Deputies said Aaron Michael Lawson, 23, of Gurley, approached the homeowner and said he would kill him. The homeowner shot Lawson once in the groin, and deputies said Lawson and the other suspect left the scene. Lawson was arrested after having surgery at Huntsville Hospital. Deputies said they arrested the other suspect, Paul Curtis Reed, 25, of Gurley a short time after the incident

Paul- DGU 3 – Apparently, a 39 year old man forced his way at gunpoint into a home off Wren Road in Anderson county, South Carolina.  The assailant put the female homeowner in a choke hold.  The 78 year old male homeowner shot the suspect in the chest and the homeowner was shot in the stomach.  The suspect fled, but later died in at the Greenville hospital.  The homeowner is in stable condition.  A background check of the suspect revealed a criminal record including violent crimes and drugs, and that the suspect was released from prison earlier this year.

Tom- DGU 4 – An Akron man whom police said was held at gunpoint until officers arrived to make an arrest has been charged with burglary. Monte T. Harris, 24, of Bettie Street, was booked into the Summit County [OH] Jail. He was scheduled for an initial appearance Monday in Akron Municipal Court. Police said two residents were awakened about 3 a.m. Sunday when a man climbed through the kitchen window of their Akron home. The male resident then fired a shot at the suspect inside the house. The suspect ran down into the basement, where the resident held him at gunpoint until Akron police responded.

Listener e-mail discussion
Rob- Email from Marc (the winner of the 299 Days book giveaway with Prepper Press)
I won and I’m jumping for joy. I’ve truly enjoyed the series. I am currently reading book 5. I’ve also enjoyed all the podcasts Glen has been on recently. Thanks for the major win. Last time I won I paid it forward. This time I’m going to enjoy the prize. Thanks for a great show. Keep representing Americans as better gun owners than Canadians, I kid of course.
PS, Bolivar can kiss my win! Lol

Paul- Facebook message from Dan
Hey Guys
Dan here from NJ Concealment furniture. Just wanted to let you know at the Oaks gun show we had a great response to our products and we will we there again in Feb. Thanks for you help getting the business out there.
Thank Dan

Tom – Another e-mail from Marc
It seems a customer dropped his firearm at a North Carolina restaurant.  It went off when it hit the floor. The pocket pistol doesn’t appear to be in any holster. If it was in a holster, it wasn’t a good one.  Clearly the owner was negligent in his gun handling. Was this weapon faulty? I don’t know. Was there a safety on the weapon? Was a safety engaged? Did the gun break? These are all good questions but preventable with a quality holster. This black eye falls squarely on the imbecile gun owner and unfortunately on the rest of us.

KERNERSVILLE, N.C. — Kernersville Police say they are investigating after a gun discharged inside a restaurant Friday afternoon.  Officers said they responded to Palenque Mexican Restaurant on North Main Street at 1:18 p.m. Video from the restaurant showed a man attempting to pay at the register when he dropped a handgun and it discharged.  Police told WFMY News 2 the round from the gun struck the counter at the register, then a half wall before entering the ceiling. No one was injured during the incident.  The case is still under investigation and anyone with information is asked to contact Kernersville Police December 28th 2013.
Marc From Ohio

We have Politics and Guns Podcast download applications out on Amazon for Android and I-phone is coming.

List emails to contact us Paul@politics and guns.com, Toby, Sticks, Rob, Susan, or Onair to reach all of us.  Call 605-215-1438 to hear your voice on the air! Again that’s 605-215-1438,  605-215-1438.  Did I mention that I really want some voice mails?

Roadgunner mag 40 class in Conway, Arkansas at Shoot House USA May 15th thru 19th 2014

Paul: Rob, do you have any new articles you want to mention?

Rob: I do.  I posted an article about our confusion over defensive gun uses. The article asks where defensive gun use starts.  There is a difference between defensive display where you’d be arrested if the display was unwarranted, and where criminal thinks you might have a weapon and changes his mind.  I received over 170 comments, but I also had my first troll.

Also please check out the shooters club,  for $75.00 a year you get 24/7 access to some fantastic training and audio podcasts that you can’t get anywhere else.

Listen to other podcasts on the Gun Rights Radio Network, the Crusader Podcast Network, and give Roadgunner a listen.

Rob: Join NRA, SAF, GOA and JPFO.  Joining two makes you a good guy, three makes you a hero, and.supporting all four makes you a super hero.

Tom: Join your local civil rights group like New Jersey Second Amendment Society, Arizona Citizens Defense League,Michigan Gun Owners , Michigan Open Carry, and Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners, Minnesota Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance, Texas Firearms Freedom,Texas State Rifle Association. Tennessee Firearms Association

Paul, That wraps up another episode of Politics and Guns. Until the mid-week show…
Rob, stay safe,
Tom, be aware,
Paul, and we’ll see you down the road.

Episode 188 – Eric Reed and Daniel Shaw

Man, but Paul started this recording early!
Hi and welcome to the Politics and Guns Podcast recorded too early on Sunday, the 8th of December 2013. I’m Paul Lathrop.
Tom: I’m Sticks and on todays show we have an interview with Eric Reed of Gun Rights Across America
Rob: I’m Rob Morse and we’ll also talked with Daniel Shaw of Gunfightercast fame., So climb aboard.
Tom: Strap in
Paul: And hang on, episode 188 of the Politics and Guns Podcast starts right now.
Show read and intro music.

Seg 1
Tom- Shopping for guns.  Five new purchases.  Great Christmas presents!  Studying Illinois gun laws.  Looks like Illinois will recognize out of state passage through the state.
Rob- finished Dave Grossman’s Book on how violent media has lead to increasingly violent adolescents who then grow into violent adults.  The book is called “Stop Teaching Our Kids to Kill”.  I also got in some dry practice, slow, fast and single hand.  How do you practice?

Paul – I have spent the last several days in non gun friendly states, and am just this morning in the free state of Utah.  Correction to midweek show – Minnesota does accept Utah non resident ccw. It is New Mexico that doesn’t.  See handgunlaw.us

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Seg 2- news
Rob- Another CCW training class started in Illinois in advance of the state accepting CCW applications.  This sixteen hour class says it exceeds the state’s requirements to apply for an Illinois CCW.  It does not say that the instructors and the course curriculum have been approved by the state.  The organization is the American Medical Resource Institute in Lake Zurich, Illinois, but their website shows neither ongoing medical education nor the names of its firearms instructors.  Hmm.  Do  our Illinois listeners have recommendations?
Ask Roy Kubicheck?

Paul- There is a new promotional promotional video supporting concealed carry created by the Twin Cities Gun Owners and Carry Forum.  It shows local citizens describing what they like about their local area and then mentioning that they carry a licensed firearm.  It is well produced and runs 2 and a half minutes.  They are on Facebook at TCGunsandCarry.  The link is in our show notes.  We need a thousand more like it form a group who lives near you.

Tom- It looks like the NYPD is done taking responsibility for their own actions. They fire errant rounds and wound bystanders, then charge the person that they were firing AT with the shooting crime. The person fired upon was a mentally ill individual who was trying to commit suicide by throwing himself into traffic. It looks like the NYPD should go through a refresher course on the 4 rules of gun safety, especially #4 (know your target and what is beyond it)

 advertisement Concealment Solutions and Nighthawk

Seg 3

Notes from the Daniel Shaw interview.  Glad to leave the USMC, but miss the marines.  Moved to Kansas and transitioning to a new job in Kansas.  Learning to sell retail and appreciate the wide range of customers.

GunfighterCast podcast with Daniel Shaw is here.

Gunfightercast 1911 podcasts part one and part two

Here is a video of Thunderbird Tactical Training with Daniel Shaw

Topic 3

Please be a resource to your friends who are new to firearms.  We can help guide our own.

DGU1 Shoppers were finishing their after work shopping when they heard shots from the Bi-Lo grocery parking lot in Chattanooga, Tennessee.  A man agreed to meet and buy several tablet computers in a parking lot.  As the sale went down, the seller pulled a gun and demanded money.  They started fighting inside the buyers car.  Another man tried to pull the buyer from the car.  The buyer was armed and shot both sellers, one fatally.  The other seller turned himself in at a local hospital for treatment of a gunshot wound to the shoulder.  Police are ruling it self-defense.

DGU #2

A convenience store owner was shot during a robbery on Nov. 11 in Bassfield, Mississippi, but then turned the tables and opened fire on the robber shooting him at least 10 times.  It was in the early morning hours when the suspect, armed with a gun, walked into the Get and Go convenience store and demanded the clerk hand over the store’s cash, WDAM reports.  But before the clerk could collect all of the cash, the robber shot the clerk in the leg.  The suspect then left the store, but apparently got greedy and decided to return moments later to grab the rest of the cash left behind.

The clerk had retrieved his own 9mm handgun as the suspect left, and when the robber walked back inside, the clerk opened fire.  When officers arrived, the suspect was pronounced dead at the scene.  According to Jefferson David County Coroner Jimmy Slater, the suspect, identified as 35-year-old LeRobert Young of Bassfield, had 11 to 13 gunshot wounds.  The store clerk was transported to a local hospital where he underwent surgery and is expected to make a full recovery.  No charges are expected to be filed against the clerk.

DGU emailed from listener Greg

 HARRIS COUNTY, Texas- Deputies said a burglary suspect was shot dead by his own gun after dropping it while trying to escape the scene of an alleged crime early Thursday.  According to deputies with the Harris County Sheriff’s Office, the shooting happened around 12:50 a.m. on Aldine Bender Road at Miranda Street.  Deputies said three men were breaking into a trailer home in the back of a business property when the male who lives there heard the glass breaking and got up to check out the situation.

 The suspects took off running, and one of them dropped his gun. The male who lives on the property picked up the gun, and the other suspects opened fire on him, deputies said. The man returned fire, shooting one of the alleged crooks in the head.

 Host asks for comments before moving on.

Hang on everybody, we’ll be right back after this and close out the show.

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 Show close

Any extra short topics or humor

Listener e-mail discussion

Email #1 from Listener Jeremy.

 Paul and Rob,

Listening to episode 187, your talk about private schools having rules about no guns allowed and their liability got me doing some searching.  I thought you would like to see the policy that General Motors has in place for all their facilities.  This applies to anyone onsite (employees, contract workers, suppliers, even UAW) despite the fact that not everyone has access to, or is given, this policy to read it.

Global Security

(Policy GS1)

Publish Date – 01/14/2013 Review Date – 01/14/2013

Page 5 of 7

IX. Sub-Policy GS1.3 – Security

The Security Section of the General Motors Global Security Manual defines and describes the

security requirements for all General Motors locations.

C. Guns, Dangerous Devices and Other Weapons

In support of the General Motors Workplace Violence Prevention policy, General Motors will not tolerate the possession of guns, dangerous devices, or other weapons while on company property including company parking lots. The only exception to this policy involves security personnel carrying firearms in situations as noted in the Security Section, Chapter 1 of the General Motors Global Security Manual, law enforcement personnel and armed guards transporting money on and off the premises, or where General Motors posts or otherwise communicates a different local policy (e.g., where General Motors believes this policy conflicts with a local law). Misuse of firearms by personnel authorized to carry must be reported to security.

 Though employees may legally own and carry weapons for personal reasons such as hunting or personal protection, it remains a violation of the policy to have weapons of any kind on General Motors property, even when they are kept in employees’ personal vehicles. Weapons are not allowed in company vehicles while on company property or while engaged in work-related activities. Weapons may not be carried to work-related events even if an authority having jurisdiction has issued a permit to carry or conceal the weapon. Violation of this policy will result in disciplinary action up to and including discharge.

 Application of this policy does not preclude assigned drivers of company vehicles from the lawful possession of firearms in the vehicle when they are not on General Motors property or otherwise engaged in work-related activities. The term ‘dangerous devices’ includes any device, the possession of, which reflects an intent and capability of the possessor to use the device to inflict personal injury, whether under circumstances of assault or self-defense.

 This not only includes martial arts devices and other objects generally recognized as being weapons, but also would include otherwise innocuous devices that are possessed in such a manner as to reflect the prohibited purpose and capability, such as, for example a tire-iron, lead pipe or baseball bat stored beneath a vehicle’s driver seat.

It is great that they say this is supposed to prevent workplace violence, but we all know it won’t.  Since the security that actually walks around, at least two of, the main Detroit area campuses don’t carry guns it isn’t really going to stop anything.  And with at least 2 attacks within a block of the global headquarters at the Ren Cen this year, I’m hoping that this will change.  But considering my “tire thumper” is even considered a no-no to them I doubt it.  My pepper spray probably isn’t even allowed since self-defense items are prohibited.  Of course they won’t take responsibility if anything happens to some on premises, let alone to or from work.  I almost wish something would happen to someone so they can try and sue GM for taking away their 2nd amendment rights of personal protection while travelling to and from work.

When you started talking about truck guns with Ben Branham my first thought was the .40 Glock you carry Paul.  And that had me asking, how do you carry that in the truck?  I can’t get comfortable with a gun on my hip when I am sitting down.  I’ve tried multiple holsters (Black Mamba CE, Cross Breed Super Tuck, even a couple OWB) and switched from a double stack .40 M&P to a single stack 9mm Kahr.  Driving a rig all day you must be one really tough guy.

 Paul- My Glock 22 is carried in a Black Momba CE at the 2:30 to 3 o’clock position.

 Rob- Jeremy, I’m as eager as you are to hear how Paul does it.  I’m in San Diego where the military went to drop-leg holsters for two reasons.  First, the mechanized infantry had problems sitting down while carrying a sidearm, and second they had trouble with standard holsters while wearing body armor.  It is hard for civilians to wear a drop-leg holster and call it concealed.

For Rob, here are a couple of local gun groups I belong to.  So you can stop the whining. J

Michigan Gun Owners (MGO) http://www.migunowners.org/

Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners (MCRGO) http://www.mcrgo.org/mcrgo/default.asp

 Rob- Jeremy, we will add both your Michigan groups to our close-of-show shoutouts.  MGO and MCRGO go to the head of the line!

Keep up the great work.  I just downloaded the app through Amazon, but since I use Podcast Addict to listen to the show I don’t know if I will use it.  But I’ll support the show none the less.


 Email #2

From Ryan-

Hey guys I just listened to the mid-week show, I am the guy from Indiana. I don’t want someone else to try to be me. I’m also sending this to the onair e-mail so everyone has a copy, and it can’t be “misplaced” again. See address below…. hint, hint.

Thanks again for the podcast, I listen to every one.


 Email #3

Thanks again Paul, I can’t wait for my patch to get here. I’ll be sure to post some pics up on facebook when it get here. Since I am already typing this e-mail I did have a question for any of you guys. I am looking for a holster recommendation. I have a G23 with a TLR-1 light and I am looking for an OWB holster. I have already checked with Jason Christensen a few months ago, and he did not have a Sidewinder in that setup. I have a Black Mamba, and I love it just looking for a OWB rig. Are there any other makers you guys would recommend, or should I just keep bugging Jason till he build one? Thanks for any input you can give, and for the swag.


 List emails to contact us Paul@politics and guns.com, Toby, Sticks, Rob, Susan, or Onair to reach all of us.

 Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?  Susan worked for the Red Cross. Paul was an EMT.  Tom is on a rescue team.  Rob is part of a CERT team.  I wrote a post called “Americans are everyday-awesome.”

Listen to other podcasts on the Gun Rights Radio Network, the Crusader Podcast Network, and give Roadgunner a listen.

Roadgunner mag 40 class Chass the un-named trucker, Glen Tate, Tom, Paul and Toby will be there.

 Join your local civil rights organizatins like NRA, SAF, GOA and JPFO, at least two of the four.

Join your local civil rights group like NJ2AS, Michigan Gun Owners, and Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners.. Maybe there are others that have not e-mailed us..  or send us a letter if you’re an Oakland Raiders fan and can’t figure out how to use e-mail.

 (Don’t mention- Illinois carry, Illinois rifle association, Arizona citizens defense league, Texas rifle association, Texas Firearms Freedom, Buckeye Firearms.  (And if we left your group out, that means you didn’t e-mail us yet.)  Join a local group even if they are in an adjacent state.)

 Paul, That wraps up another episode of Politics and Guns.  Until the mid-week show…

Rob, stay safe,

Sticks, be aware,

Paul, and we’ll see you down the road.

Outro and disclaimer