Episode 261 – Kyle Bacon

“An armed society is a polite society.. and this is the Polite Society Podcast where we support and report on civilian self-defense.”
Paul: Welcome to the polite society podcast recorded live on Saturday, August 16th, 2014. I’m Paul Lathrop
Gary: I’m Gary Daugherty and we have Kyle Bacon of the Search and Assess Podcast with us tonight.
John: I’m John Richardson, and we’ll talk about self-defense news
Rob: I’m Rob Morse and we have our weekly stories of defensive gun use
Gary: so climb aboard
John: strap in
Rob: and hang on!
Paul: Episode 261 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.
Show intro music.

Seg 1- Personal news from each participant

Paul – I was in a loaner truck this week as my regular truck had some MAJOR repairs needed. I wish that I had known that it was going to die on Sunday as I basically took the day off to enjoy with my wife. I didn’t edit the podcast, instead I thought that I would find the time to do the editing and uploading of the show when I had some downtime during the week.

The truck that I got for a loaner truck didn’t have AC power and I had to rely on a tiny power inverter that I use for charging cell phones in my pickup. My laptop that I use for the show totally overwhelmed the inverter and I wasn’t able to power up and edit the show.

Rob – I met with an instructor for some more teaching instruction. Other than that I shot dry fire.

John – I picked up my Ruger Security Six revolver on Monday from my local dealer. It is a 2 ¾” stainless .357 Magnum with nice checkered grips.
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Seg 2- NewsNews_Partner_white


Paul – Tonight I want to talk a bit about 2 stories that seem extremely dissimilar however I promise that I will tie them together at the end so please bear with me. Many of you know that I am a NASCAR fan. Last weekend, right about the time that we were wrapping up recording the weekend show there was a horrible accident at a race track in rural upstate New York. A young local race car driver was killed in this accident. Now not to sound crass, however this is something that happens about once a month during racing season somewhere in the United States. Racing is a dangerous sport by it’s very nature, and sometimes racers give their lives in pursuit of the sport that they love. Two things are a little unusual about this incident. First is that the young man who died, 20 year old Kevin Ward, was out of his race car and walking on the track. Second is that the car that hit him was driven by three time champion and  NASCAR superstar Tony Stewart.

The media climbed all over this and was all but calling Tony Stewart a murderer. Video of the wreck played over and over on ESPN showing (in poor taste in my opinion) the death of this young man.  Even in sports media the fix was in pushing hard on Mr Stewart. What wasn’t right about this was this, it truly was an accident. If you were to watch the video of the incident you can see that the young racer, clearly upset, gets out of his race car and approaches oncoming traffic from the right side. The sprint cars that these racers were driving on this dirt track have extremely limited visibility on the right hand side. there is no way that at the angle that the young racer approached Stewart that he could have been seen.

In all but the media that is dedicated to racing, Stewart was vilified. A small group of media that covers racing full time tried valiantly to point out the situation, and even though the local sheriff’s office repeatedly stated that although the investigation is ongoing it looked as though there was no criminal intent and that no criminal charges looked to be filed, the media smelled blood in the water and went after Stewart with vicious intensity.

How does this relate to anything we talk about on the podcast on a regular basis you might ask? Well also about the time that we were wrapping up the weekend show last week another thing happened in Ferguson, Missouri. In this event 2 young males walked in to a convenience store and committed a strong arm robbery. they stole about $50 in cigars and assaulted a clerk. When a police officer contacted the 2 males there was a struggle and at least one shot was fired inside the officer’s police cruiser and one of the males died. Once again in this example there were a couple of things that made this story exceptional . First there were witnesses that claimed that the young man “had his hands up” and second because the police force is a majority caucasian force and the young male was black it was an easy story to insert race into.

I listened to reports of both incidents on satellite radio as I drove this week. The initial reports of the Ferguson story stated that when the officer (who has been named by the police department but out of our respect for the officer we will not name) approached 2 young men and attempted to get out of his car the 2 men attacked him pushing him back into his car and attempting to get his gun from him.  However once riots began all reporting that attempted to produce facts in the mainstream media died away almost instantly.

Now let’s look a little bit at the “witnesses”. One was the cousin of the deceased. The other was known to the deceased. Do you think that they might have a little bit of a case to make up a story? I heard that ONCE in a broadcast on satellite radio and then never again. This includes listening to what I would call fairly reliable news sources such as Fox News and BBC America.

In both stories I think everyone involved would have been much better served by a reporting of the facts and an plea to allow a true investigation to reveal the facts in the case. Unfortunately we got neither. I haven’t heard any reports of fatalities in the Ferguson area and that is a good thing, What I have seen is a display of a militarized police force that is very good at escalating the situation and a community that has been whipped into a frenzy at least in part due to inaccurate reporting.

Where I am going with these 2 stories is this PLEASE be careful where you get your news. Look for multiple sources and look for inconsistencies. I am sure that back in the days of Walter Cronkite that the tools were not available that we have now to do our own research and to find things as quickly as we can, however that is one of the blessings that we have now.

I can state as the owner and executive producer of the podcast that we do make every effort to be sure that the news that we present to you is accurate. I am very appreciative to all of you who listen to us for news and commentary. We will continue to do our best to get you the best information we can, and with your help sending us links and opinions in email I know that we will not fall prey to the “get the story quick to get listeners” disorder that seems to have fallen on the mainstream media,

Rob- Journalists sell the excitement of a headline.  There should be more to the news.  It isn’t clear if the news crews care what really happened on the street so long as they get and keep eyes on their advertisements. Armed civilians with a badge versus unarmed unbadged civilians.

Paul- There were riots in Ferguson, Missouri after a teenager was shot by a policeman.  There was also looting and buildings burnt to the ground.  After that, firearms sales in local gun shops increased by 5 to 10 fold.  Local citizens became concerned for their own safety when local convenience stores were burned down.  Citizens are buying everything from handguns, to rifles, to shotguns.  People who already own firearms were back go buy ammunition.  Customers who normally save up and pay with cash were putting the purchases on their credit cards.  One gun-store owner put it this way.  The good news is  that people are taking personal responsibility for their own well-being.  Citizens are admitting that even the best law enforcement can’t be everywhere for everybody.  It is also sad that we need to protect ourselves from our neighbors.

John – comment – they are even buying AR-15s for home defense even though Judge Catherine Blake said they had no use for home defense. Could it be that these people know something she doesn’t?


John-  Police face a difficult job.  That job may be impossible in some of our larger cities.  A gang member describes the streets of New York.  Families are broken.  Working citizens and shopkeepers are harassed and disarmed by the city.  When he looks around, the only figures with any power are the armed drug gangs.  The kids on the street have figured out that only the fools obey the law.  That attitude is the result of failed economic and social policies.  That attitude will lead to high rates of violent crime, and it isn’t a problem that law enforcement can fix.

Rob Comment- I can relate to that, because my local government is seems like it is never out to help me, only to regulate and tax me.

John- In Washington DC, an off duty detective was shot in an attempted hijacking.  Another officer was shot during the search for suspects.  The municipal policy of disarming the citizens without a badge means criminals never fear their victims.. even if they victims are off duty police.

67 people were shot this week in Chicago.  New York City has stopped posting statistics on its shootings and murders.

Rob Commnet- Is that the most transparent administration on the east coast?

Gary- Mario Alejandro, 33, of Woodbridge, New Jersey is a Marine.  He served in the 2003 invasion of Iraq.  Last week he wore a T-shirt saying, “Keep Calm and Return Fire.”  Above the lettering was a modern rifle colored in red, white and blue.  Mr. Alejandro was stopped by a security guard at Six Flags amusement park because of his shirt.  The guard asked him to remove his shirt or buy a shirt and put it on to cover his T-shirt.  Mr Alejandro refused the request.  The guard checked with park management and then insisted Mr. Alejandro leave the park.

Alejandro said no veteran deserves the same treatment he encountered.  Quote “I fought for this country.  I laid in a hole for 36 hours with no sleep, and had friends die for this country and so the people here could have the freedom to [do] things like visit amusement parks. So when they told me that I couldn’t come in there with my family because of my shirt — a patriotic shirt — it hurt a lot. No other veteran should ever have to experience that.”  Six Flags entertainment operates 17 amusement parks. You can contact them here from the link in our show notes.

Rob- These words, “common sense gun-control”, they do not mean what you think they mean.  Our example of the day is from Representative Gabby Giffords.  She proposed a five step plan to stop gun violence.  Here are a few of her ideas-

Idea Two: “Authorize law enforcement to remove access to guns, with court oversight and plenty of protections to prevent abuse of this authority.” The owner of the guns would “only” get them back once he or she was “no longer a danger to themselves or others.”

Idea Three: “Require schools, including colleges and universities, to report violent or suicidal people to a court or administering agency.” These people would also have their firearms confiscated, but “could regain their firearms access…after a certain period of time.”

Idea Four: “Allow courts to issue ‘Gun Violence Restraining Orders.'” These result in temporary gun confiscation.

Idea Five: “Temporarily ban those who have been involuntarily hospitalized from purchasing or possessing firearms.”

I did not hear her mention mandatory reporting of the mentally ill by the county and state to the federal NICS system.  According to Giffords, common sense gun-control means confiscation.  You know, given the way most elected legislators act, they should be disarmed for mental illness.

Paul- Any of us with children know that kids take better care of their own toys than they do of other children’s toys.  It looks like the police in Des Plaines, Illinois have lost some of the AR style rifles they were given from the Defense Department.   The Des Plaines Police Department could be facing a federal investigation into the disappearance of two semi-automatic rifles.  Police Chief William Kushner admitted he doesn’t know where the two M-16A1 rifles went.  The weapons were given to the department in 2002 as part of a federal program to equip law enforcement agencies with military surplus weapons, and to help combat terrorism and drugs.  An internal audit required by the Defense Department failed to locate the two rifles earlier this year.  Chief Kushner, who took over as chief two years ago, said poor bookkeeping and widespread access to the armory are to blame for the guns’ disappearance.  He expected a closer look at his records and procedures from the Law Enforcement Support Office and Defense Logistics Agency, which manage the surplus property program.

John- Two bills advanced in the Michigan Senate that advance the right of self-defense.  Bill SB 977 passed in the state Senate, and helps active duty military maintain their Michigan Concealed Pistol License.  Many active duty Michigan citizens were losing their CPL because they could not apply for renewals in person.  The bill requires county clerks to accept applications and return renewals by first class mail.  This would also allow deployed military personnel to carry off base if their duty station has reciprocity with Michigan.

The next bill, SB 979, passed in the Senate Judiciary Committee by a 3 to 1 vote.  The bill realigned Michigan’s definition of “firearm” with the federal definition; such that “firearm” would be redefined to mean “any weapon which is designed to, or may be readily converted to expel a projectile by action of an explosive.” SB 979 also creates a separate definition for air guns. It also preempts local units of government from regulating air guns and spring guns on private property where authorization is given by the owner and the possessor takes precautionary measures to ensure that the projectile remains within the bounds of the property.

Both bills will be taken up when the legislature reconvenes in September.

Comment- It is probably worth calling your legislator’s office.

Rob- Here is more state news.  Governor Deval Patrick signed bills into law that further regulate long gun in Massachusetts.  The bills require Massachusetts citizens to receive permission from their police chief before they may purchase a long gun.  The bill requires that the chief appear in court to explain his denial of a Firearms Owners Identification Card.  It does not establish what constitutes good cause for denial or acceptance.  That means a potential gun owner must be willing to go to court to buy a gun.

The governor invited gun control activists to the signing ceremony and did not invite groups like the Massachusetts Gun Owners Action League.

Gary- Moving down to Connecticut, state Senate Minority Leader John McKinney lost his bid for the Republican candidacy to face Democrat Governor Dan Malloy in November. Senator McKinney was one of the architects of Connecticut’s restrictive 2013 gun laws.  Business man Tim Foley beat the incumbent senator by 11 percentage points.   Foley publicly supported citizens’ rights to bear arms.  Tens of thousands of Connecticut gun owners helped support Foley and helped get out the vote in this low turnout primary.  They lifted Foley to victory in all but one CT county.

Paul- Moving over to Minnesota.. You might remember last October when the National Football League issued a “no guns” policy at their events.  The Dallas Cowboys immediately announced that they would not obey that policy.  Now a judge has struck down the policy for off-duty Minnesota police officers.  Two police organizations challenged the rule, arguing that NFL policy cannot preempt state law. Police groups argued that even off-duty officers need to be armed at Vikings games, to protect themselves and the public.  The judge’s ruling applies only in Minnesota.


Comment- Why are citizens with badges at greater risk than citizens without badges?


Rob- Just when you thought that police officers were allowed to carry everywhere, we get to talk about Dallas, Texas.  Employees at the AMC 30 Theaters in Mesquite saw a police officer’s gun when the officer bent down to pick up a ticket he dropped.  The officer showed his badge and offered to show his ID, but the theater manager asked him to leave.  It seems we have not learned a thing from the Aurora Colorado murders in a gun free zone.

Gun Quotes -Paul- “In a perfect world, you wouldn’t need guns. This is not a perfect world.” – Sheriff Ben Johnson, Volusia (VO-LUSHA) County, Florida

Paul- Hang on everybody, we’ll be right back after this

Segment 3 Interviews
Kyle Bacon of the Search and Assess Podcast
Hand to hand is as old as man.  I study Kungfu.  Stay on your feet.

Segment 4 DGUs

John – A Jacksonville, Florida man and woman are in stable condition after a shootout with a home invader on Friday morning. A child in the house at the time was unharmed. The suspect, 21 yo Trevel Yates, however is dead.

The pair had just woken up when they heard a loud noise of someone breaking in the back door, Sgt. Michael Paul reported. The 50-year-old man fought with Yates and was hit several times with a blunt object. The man retrieved a firearm and exchanged gunfire with the suspect. The 60-year-old woman also got a gun and shot at the suspect.

WWRS?  What would Rachel Say.  Carry all the time or guess right.

Rob- A Visalia man is dead after being shot by a woman inside her home, Visalia police said Thursday morning.  The shooting took place after the woman had been attacked by a man she knew, police said.  46-year-old Albert Pena was declared dead at Kaweah Delta Medical Center about an hour later, Sgt. Damon Maurice said.  The woman, whose name was not released, was also injured and was taken to the hospital where she was treated and released… She and Pena were in a relationship and got into an altercation in which Pena assaulted her several times, police said.  While being assaulted, she got a gun from inside the home and shot Pena several times, police said.  She was not arrested and cooperated with police, Maurice said.  The case, which police said appeared to be self-defense, will be forwarded to the Tulare County [CA] District Attorney’s Office for review.

Gary- This Huntsville, Alabama home invader must have thought a life of crime would be easy. However, when the person he attempted to rob responded with his own firearm early Sunday morning, the unidentified home invader beat feet. Not only did he flee but he dropped both his gun and wallet as he was exiting.

Paul- This is the kind of DGU I like.  Four women were sitting outside at a Tacoma, Washington wine bar.  51 year old Robert Anthony Rashe brushed up against their table, and one of the women asked him to step back.  Rashe flipped over their table and hit the women in the mouth, knocking lose one of her teeth.  A male customer saw the fight from inside the wine bar.  He stepped outside and told Rashe to leave the women alone.  Rushe pulled out a 12-inch-long knife and walked toward the man.  An employee of the wine bar saw the group frozen in place and facing Rashe.  Rashe held the knife in a fighting stance.  The employee pulled his concealed handgun.  He then ordered Rashe to drop the knife and lie on the ground. The police found Rashe held at gunpoint when they arrived.  Rashe was charged with two counts of second-degree assault, and one count of third-degree malicious mischief.

Rob-  No shots fired, and don’t bring a gun to a knife fight.

John- They are lucky Rashe was a crazy amatur.  A trained professional with a knife could have cut all of them.

Paul- We have the links to each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com if you want to share them with a friend.

Tips and tricks

Segment 5 Show close

Listener e-mail discussion

Rob- This is from one of our listeners. He said, “Remember those “I am Trayvon” T-shirts? You know what we need? How about some T-shirts that say, “I am Shaneen”.

Ken S. from Phoenix in the Free State of Arizona.

Here is an E-mail from TJ
Hey Paul,
Thanks for the talk on the show.
I guess I worded my last sentence wrong. It’s not necessarily that I think we shouldn’t have the 2 parties that we do, I just hate that, for the most part, we are almost forced into one or the other because, as you mentioned, it’s really the only way to make change. It’s just a conundrum when you have to vote for someone that disagrees with something you are for, based on the fact that they are for 80% of the rest of your views, or you could vote for someone that agrees 100% with you (I know, not gonna happen), but by doing that you are basically just wasting your vote.

Thanks Paul,

( DO NOT READ)The Polite Society download app is outon Amazon for Android and the I-phone app is in I-tunes and it is called Podcast Box.  They are located by our old name, Politics and guns.  Hot links are in our show notes.

Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?

Rob- I wrote about the judge’s decision outlawing modern rifles in Maryland.  The judge says  modern rifles are too lethal for civilians who don’t wear a badge.  She said modern rifles are only used for assault, and not used for defense.. yet, according to the judge, it is permissible that civilians with a badge carry these same modern rifles.  The judge is wrong.  The articles are up at ammoland and the SlowFacts blog.

( DO NOT READ)Look at the shooters club by Bob Mayne and Ben Branam.  For $75.00 a year, $6.25 a month, you get 24/7 access to some fantastic training and audio podcasts that you can’t get anywhere else.  Subscribing from the link in our show notes helps Bob and Ben as well as helps us here at the Polite Society Podcast.

(DO NOT READ)Join your local civil rights group like theNew Jersey Second Amendment Society,Arizona Citizens Defense League,Gun Owners of California, Commonwealth Second Amendment,  Connecticut Citizens Defense League,Florida Carry, Georgia Carry,Georgia Gun Owners,Grass Roots North Carolina,Illinois Carry, Maryland Shall Issue,  Michigan Gun Owners , Michigan Open Carry, and  Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners.

There are Minnesota Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance,  Nebraska Firearms Owners Association,   Citizens for a Safer New Jersey,New York State Rifle & Pistol Association,  Open Carry Texas, Texas Firearms Freedom, Texas State Rifle Association. Tennessee Firearms Association, Virginia Citizens Defense League, Virginia Open Carry,  West Virginia Citizens Defense League, wisconsingunowners.org, and Wyoming Gun Owners.

For our Canadian listeners, and their supporters, join theCanadian Shooting Sports Association and theCanadian National Firearms Association.  If YOUR state or local organization isn’t read each episode, then send us an email and we’ll add them!

Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast. Until the ( mid-week / weekend ) show…
Rob: stay safe,
Gary: be aware,
John: and we’ll see you down the road.