Episode 421 – Amanda Suffecool and Paul Martin

Full Episode Download: http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/Episode20421.mp3

1- Open and Personal News Segment

2- News Segment

3- Interview Segment 1: Guest : Amanda Suffecool part 1

4- Interview Segment 2: Guest : Amanda Suffecool Part 2

5 – Interview Segment 3 : Guest : Paul Martin – Part 1

6 – Interview Segment 4: Guest : Paul Martin – Part 2

7- DGU Segment:

8- Email and Show Close:


1- Introduction

Paul: Welcome to the polite society podcast powered by the Firearms Policy Coalition recorded on Sunday September 2nd 2017, I’m Paul Lathrop

Rob: I’m Rob Morse and on tonight’s show we will talk with Amanda Suffecool about the concealed carry fashion shows she’s put on.

John: I’m John Richardson, and we’ll talk about the efforts of Chicago to prevent a gun store from opening.

Tracy Thronburg: I’m Tracy Thronburg and tonight we’ll talk with Paul Martin about prepping.. so climb aboard

Rob: strap in

John : and hang on!

Paul:  episode 421 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.

Show intro music.


Personal news from each participant (when you are done with your segment please ask the next person what has been up with them)


Rob- I read the Wren decision out of the DC appeals court. I recorded David Cole for Self-Defense Gun Stories. I carried every day. We dodged a hurricane, so it is still a little wet to go to the range. I did some dry practice indoors.


John- My week has had dual highlights. First, I had dinner – in person, mind you – with Paul on Wednesday as he was driving through with a load. Then, my granddaughter Olivia spent the weekend with us which is always a treat. I also attended the Greensboro, NC gun show with my son-in-law and his dad. My biggest take-away is that AR prices are way down – Ruger AR-556s for as low as $449 – and that the new short barreled firearms from Mossberg and Remington are big hits.


Tracy- I went to Camp Gladiator five days this week. I gave a retired husband and wife a lesson on Thursday night, where they quickly learned that good gear choices can make or break a private lesson, and I worked as the chief range safety officer at Shady Oaks Gun Range today in Cedar Park. I’m still on the lookout for a reliable source for gas for my Denali.




Promo about upcoming training classes here.

Promo about patches


2- News 1


So Let It Be Written So Let It Be Done.

In July 2010, R. Joseph Franzese submitted an application for a business license. He proposed opening a gun shop called Second Amendment Arms (SAA). Franzese bought the property advertised as commercial property, but the city now claims it was not zoned as commercial. He contends the city will block a gun shop, no matter where it’s located. The Second Amendment Foundation became Franzese’s ally and backed a case challenging a ban of firearms sales within city limits. A federal court judge in Illinois denied a City of Chicago motion for summary judgment and refused to dismiss the case. Robert M. Dow, Jr., U.S. District Court Judge set Sept. 28 as the next date to discuss damages for the plaintiff in Second Amendment Arms v. City of Chicago.

Alan Gottlieb, SAF founder and Executive Vice President, said “The City of Chicago under Rahm Emanuel is trying to be too clever by half. We would have thought by now that they would have ceased this pattern of spending tens of thousands of taxpayer dollars on stubborn litigation, but the city seems determined to be dragged kicking and screaming into compliance with the Second Amendment. Since losing its gun ban fight in the Supreme Court’s 2010 McDonald ruling. Chicago has been digging its heels in deeper and deeper, throwing every kind of legal roadblock it could in an effort to delay what seems inevitable. The city has got to follow the law and the constitution, and as long as they keep fighting, we’ll keep suing. That’s what winning firearms freedom one lawsuit at a time is all about.”


John – What Chicago is engaging in is a form of “red-lining”. The use of zoning to keep out legal business. It was originally used to keep African Americans out of certain neighborhoods because mortgage companies wouldn’t lend to them.


Rob- I agree, John.  This is a civil rights violation and it has been going on for a very long time. Why is the city’s bigotry allowed to stand?  The city demands live fire before it will grant a permit.  A judge should demand that the city open police ranges to civilian use until a private company stands up.


Gary –


So, you think you have Constitutional Carry?

If you are not familiar with the work of John Lott, you are missing out on some valuable information.  His Crime Prevention Research Center published an article addressing limitations on Constitutional Carry in March of 2016. https://crimeresearch.org/2016/03/the-very-real-limits-on-constitutional-carry/


The focus of the article is the federal Gun Free School Zones Act.  This legislation was originally introduced by Senator Joe Biden and signed into law by President George H. W. Bush in 1990.  In 1995 this law was struck down by the U.S. Supreme Court.  This was a landmark decision.  It was the first time in over 50 years that the Supreme Court placed limits on Congress’ ability to legislate under the Commerce Clause.  In 1996, Congress massaged the language and reenacted this unconstitutional statute.


This statute criminalizes the possession of a firearm within 1,000 feet of the boundary of a school.  There are exceptions to this rule.  Unloaded firearms that are in locked containers in a vehicle are exempted.  Private property within 1,000 feet of the school boundary but not part of school grounds is also an exception.  Additionally, persons licensed to carry may be exempt.  However, you must have a license issued by the state in which the school district resides.


If you live in a Constitutional Carry state and you do not possess a state-issued license, you have a problem.  You are committing a crime if you find yourself carrying a firearm within 1,000 feet of a school boundary.  Dr. Lott’s article points out the difficulty of even driving across a typical city without violating this law.  Even if you are unaware of the school tucked back in the woods two streets to the east of you, you are eligible for a five-year, all expenses paid prison term and a $5,000 fine.  Even gun-friendly states have anti-gun politicians and prosecutors in their larger cities.


Congressman Ron Paul introduced legislation to repeal the GFSZA on three separate occasions.  His bills never made it out of committee.  Can you say national reciprocity?  The more things change, the more things stay the same.  Gun control is about control, not guns.


Rob- I used to open carry in California.  You had to know where every school was located.

Belle- How is this enforced?


Truckin’ through Wisconsin

Truck driver Guy Smith of Wisconsin pulled into a weigh station Kenosha County in June of 2016.  He then found himself charged with carrying a concealed weapon after his revolver was seen in the cab of his truck.  Of course, they confiscated his property.  Mr. Smith does not possess a concealed weapons permit.  


Smith’s defense attorney, John Monroe, prepared two theories to defend his client against these allegations.  The first defense is as simple as it gets.  In 2011 Wisconsin passed a law making it legal to have loaded handguns in vehicles.  A revolver is a handgun, isn’t it?


To paraphrase, Monroe said the charge never should have been filed because the the law allows handguns in cars to be unencased and loaded.  This seems pretty clear, doesn’t it?  But the prosecutor intended to take this case to trial.  The prosecutor actually stated that the law could not mean what it said because it would invalidate concealed carry law.  The judge in the case corrected him by stating that it would “in cars.”  Again, this seems like common sense stuff.  That is true unless you are a prosecutor with an axe to grind against citizens arming themselves.


The second defense theory Monroe devised centered around Castle Doctrine.  Wisconsin, and most other states, allow the use of firearms in their home, business or vehicle.  As Mr. Smith’s truck provides transportation, a livelihood and lodging all three elements of a castle exist.  


When prosecutor Thomas Binger learned of the defense Monroe planned to present at trial, he asked for a postponement.  Presumably this was to give the State more time to prepare.


On August 28, just before the date of trial, the State dismissed all charges against Mr. Smith.  Monroe pointedly stated they were not informed of this dismissal until the defense had been prepared and they traveled to Kenosha.  As Dean Weingarten of Gun Watch stated, this sounds like a case of punishment by process.  Was there ever an intention of going to trial with this?  Or, was Mr. Smith just being railroaded by a powerful government?


After the dismissal, Mr. Smith said, “I’m just a trucker trying to stay alive.  I want my gun back and I don’t want a record, and I’m not paying a fine.  I didn’t do anything wrong.”  Well done, Mr. Smith.  Perhaps we need a remake of Mr. Smith Goes to Washington?




Paul – Just to make sure that all our listeners are aware that there are no federal laws that prohibit carrying in a commercial vehicle. It also reminds me of my own situation

John – Guy Smith still has his legal bills. The prosecutor was trying to drag it out to force Mr. Smith to plead to a lesser charge because of the uncertainty involved.

Gary – ACLDN

Rob- Guilty of contempt of prosecutor.

Belle- If they don’t pay, they should provide enough educational material to help keep you out of trouble.


Gun Quotes-  A free people [claim] their rights as derived from the laws of nature, and not as the gift of their chief magistrate. Thomas Jefferson


Hang on everybody, we’ll be back with our guest (Name).



3- Interview 1

Amanda Suffecool

Eye on the target radio http://www.eyeonthetargetradio.com/

Realize FAC http://www.realizefac.com/


The NRA said this was the first fashion show to highlight concealed carry.  Maybe it was the first for them, but you’ve done this before.

Preppers ball

Friends of NRA

You wrote the book on it.


What was your idea in putting on a fashion show for concealed carriers?

I like it because it shows we’re normal.

Hi, this is us.  Look at us.  We look like you.

News coverage was great.

It is fashion news.

You’re talking about how to hide guns.

One model was carrying four concealed firearms.

We’re commonplace.

Amanda wrote the book on building your own fashion show.  A DVD is also available so you are not starting from our experience.

Contact Amanda with your lessons learned from your fashion show.


Who should consider putting on a fashion show?  NRA meetings, NRA clubs, Women’s shooting leagues for outreach and fundraising.




American shooter magazine

A group in NY

We use real people, and plastic guns.

My cousin produces fashion shows, so I learned from her.

The NRA hired me to consult with them.  They got things done.  We didn’t meet the models until a few hours before the show.

Pictures from the show including “Fabio”.



4- Interview 2 Paul Martin



Paul, emphasize the little things you solve once you prep.  Sprains.  Cuts. power outage.  Knowing when to not enter the water.


Rob- I have flood insurance.

What is the name of your you-tube channel?




5- DGUs (at beginning) These discussions are NOT legal advice. Some of us are trainers, but this is not formal training and YOU NEED formal training. The Defensive Gun Use segment is intended as information, NOT as training. As always the opinions of the hosts are only their own opinions and not those of any sponsors or other affiliations.


Hurricane Harvey Mischief

As we have seen this week, while thousands were fleeing Hurricane Harvey, the low lifes came out to “play”.  About an hour after the storm made landfall, police in Corpus Christi responded to a call and found a man with a gunshot wound in the head.

It appeared that the man tried to break into the home and the armed homeowner defended himself.  The man was coherent and was transported to the local hospital.

In a second incident near Houston a few hours later, a home invader was shot and killed by the homeowner.  Both incidents were still under investigation.

Rob-  Low light.  You need a flashlight and a cell phone.


Tracy: My doors are locked for YOUR protection.

Belle- low light practice is more important than people give it credit for. How often is it dark? About half the time? Why wouldn’t you practice that skill?

John – I like the attitude of the sheriff of Ft. Bend Cty, TX https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2017/09/03/texas-sheriff-warns-reminds-looters-we-believe-in-the-second-amendment-n2376617

Belle Night sight can be a distraction too. Low light shooting is likely to be close, because of the diminished ability to see anyway. Practice your point shooting or as Marty teaches, your Default Stance and you’ll develop the necessary skill.


Evil Roy shares a story

Fans of SASS or Cowboy Action Shooting know Gene Pearcey by his SASS moniker of Evil Roy.  He recently posted this story.

Here’s a self-defense story from a friend. It demonstrates the value of awareness, presence of mind, and making other members of you family familiar and proficient with available firearms. Being a cool head doesn’t hurt either.

My friend stops at convenience store on the way back from the lake. His shorts are wet so he takes his small pistol out of his pocket and puts it the door pocket. He tells his wife the 1911 is in the center console and goes inside. A small car pulls up alongside and a guy gets out. The wind blows his shirt up exposing a weapon. The wife is not sure if it is a knife or gun but she is alerted. My friend comes back to the Suburban and opens the rear doors and reaches for the cooler. He turns around to see the guy standing very close looking very tense, wild eyed and agitated. Bad things are about to happen. Suddenly he gets very still and very slowly lowers his hands to his side and makes some idiot remark about looking for gas. My friend looks over his shoulder and sees his wife aiming a very shiny 1911 through the truck at the guys head with the safety off from the passenger’s seat. Guy very slowly mutters some nonsense and leaves. The wife did not say a word through the entire encounter. Lots to learn from this incident.

Rob- Teamwork is insanely effective.

Belle- Great example of why it’s important to be aware of pre-attack indicators.


Wrong ATM

Sierra McFatridge was outside getting her dog when she heard the crack of gunfire and saw a robber falling right in front of her.   She said, “I didn’t know where the shot came from and then he was right there in front of me.”

A 51 year-old man had just visited the local ATM, withdrawn cash and was walking home when the robber hit him in the head.  The robber had a rock.  His intended victim had a gun.

The thug got away but a neighbor saw a woman in the get-away car and gave the license plate number to police.

Police said the victim was transported to the hospital with non-life threatening injuries.  Once again the case was still under investigation.

Rob- The victim was walking with his son.

Gary- Grandma was robbed.


Man hold suspect at gunpoint until police arrive

In South Carolina, a deputy was serving a warrant for car theft when Christopher Cravets spotted the officer and ran from the scene.  He was wanted on an armed robbery charge. The deputy called for backup and multiple agencies responded.  The manhunt was on.

Charles Belcher had gone to visit his girlfriend in the area and she informed him of the ongoing manhunt.  He retrieved his gun from his truck and went back inside.

He then went outside to check the property.  He spotted Cravets hiding in the back of an Explorer in a carport on the property.  He ordered the man out of the SUV and to lay face down on the ground.  He then held him at gunpoint until the police arrived.

“The only thing I was worried about is if he had a gun and if he was going to try to shoot me,” Belcher added.


We post each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com  Please take a minute and share them with a friend.



6- E-mail, blog notes, and show close


Listener e-mail discussion


Text message #1


Greetings all! Nice to have all the new voices on the show. All the best to Rachel in her new endeavor. I am getting a motorcycle and am wondering what others do who are disarmed at work. Thanks in advance. Also, even though I am disarmed at work , the vehicle I drive is 80,000 pounds. How many grains is that you math people!


Al the Iron Range trucker


560 million grains!



Email from Dr Sean


Ok folks I have tried to stay out of the 1911 “discussion” but….allow me to go back a few episodes.  You had a guest who was trying to decide between a Springfield EMP and the range officer.  I own both and would suggest either or both for anyone.  The EMP is nice for CCW when you have light clothes or need deeper concealment.  The range officer is great to have a full size 1911 on your hip.  Buy both and you can choose each day.  They feel the same in your hand and function exactly the same.  The only difference is the recoil.


ok Paul I have to agree with you on wanting a 64 1/2 Mustang (I would love one too) but anytime we compare cars and guns we run into problems.  So if we are going to compare a 64 1/2 mustang and a new car the difference we see is a huge increase in government regulation and safety features as well as digitalization.  So I’m afraid you would have to compare the 1911 to a “smart gun” in that comparison.  I don’t think any of us want a smart gun!!  

I’ll agree with Belle “1911 finest handgun known to man”, but I also like to take my wife’s XD mod2 out for some target shooting too.  She carries hers all the time and loves it.

All in all, carry what you practice with, practice and get training often and above all else POGO!!

Thanks for all you do and see you at GRPC.

Dr. Sean


Sean D. Brodale DO


Barton carries in his truck!


Hey crew,

It has been 7 years since I have had interaction with the DOT but today was my lucky day. The Officer approached from the passenger side and asked if we could pull off into the truck stop parking lot a few blocks up. For Paul’s benefit we do 99%of our Excavation work in Barron county WI so we don’t see scales ever. Before he left I informed the officer of my Glock 22 as I openly carry. When we got to the parking lot and he started the inspection he and I had a wonderful chat about firearms as he cited me for a non approved air line splice and let the few other things go with a warning provided they are fixed within 15 days. Be polite with officers and do what they say always but especially when armed. This gentleman was polite as we chatted about guns walking around the truck and trailer looking at the needed repairs. Enjoy your night!


Barton in  Wisconsin



Jake writes in about safeties on firearms


I understand where he is coming from, but I have to disagree with Paul on manual safeties on concealed carry firearms.  I have carried for years with a fullsize with no manual safety and a subcompact with manual safety (depending on the season, what I’m wearing, and the required level of concealment).  If you ever observe me when shooting, you will notice on every gun, even those without when I draw or otherwise prepare to fire, my thumb swipes downwards on the left side of my gun as if disengaging a safety, and ends in a proper shooting grip.  On guns without safeties, it doesn’t cost me anything in terms of time or mental effort, and of course it’s necessary on guns without safeties.


I’m beginning to change my mind on the usefulness of safeties and DA/SA guns purely for additional safety when reholstering.  Reholstering is the most dangerous gun handling task we commonly do, and a stray string from a sweatshirt, piece of brass, rock, fold of a t-shirt, or any number of other things could get stuck inside the holster or trigger guard on holstering and cause an accidental discharge.  With a hamer-down DA/SA gun, you can keep your thumb on the rear of the hammer so you feel it begin to move if the trigger is pressed by anything, and with a gun with a safety, you can physically stop the trigger from moving.  If I want to carry with the safety off, I can toggle the safety on, holster, then withdraw just far enough to disengage the safety before reholstering.  Lately, though, I just keep the safety on – I instinctively disengage it on drawing anyway.


Just my $0.02.

Jake (Formerly from Iowa)


Belle- 1911s are…The Finest Handgun Known to Man? Too much of a broken record?

Tracy- 2011s are..TOO BIG FOR MY HAND.

Rob- Jake, I have the same habit.

John – http://www.guns.com/2015/07/13/the-gadget-for-glocks-a-safer-way-to-re-holster-video/



Dr Sean writes in again


Just wanted to thank Tim Crosnoe for his elaboration of natural point of aim as it is sometimes talked about in pistol shooting.  I had begun to wonder how NPOA could be used in pistol shooting as the shoulders are mostly muscular joints.  This seemed contradictory to the NPOA we learn at Appleseed which takes the muscles out and relies on the sling and bones to get an NPOA.  It’s nice to know that I’m not the only one thinking about NPOA as it is different in pistol shooting vs rifle shooting.  Thanks to Tim

Dr. Sean

Sean D. Brodale DO


Rob- We use NPOA in target shooting a lot.

Belle- NPOA in pistol is similar to the default stance


Paul: Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?


Rob- I completed my series called “Government Fees Discourage Concealed Carry.”  In shall issue states, our concealed carry laws and fees disarmed 8 million of us.  I also asked if “Gun Laws are Really Common Sense..or More of the Same Stupid Stuff?” Do these regulations disarm criminals or disarm honest gun owners?  Do they do more harm than good?


That and more are up at Clash Daily, at Ammoland, and at my blog slow facts dot wordpress dot com.  John, tell us what’s new at your blog no lawyers only guns and money?


For those who like a little bit of history with their firearms, I did a post on a lesser known trench gun, the Remington 10, used by the American army in World War One. Only about 3,500 of these bottom ejecting pump shotguns were made. They also came with a 17” bayonet. Moving from the old to the new, Century Arms released a product safety warning regarding their Canik line of 9mm pistols. Owners are warned that repeated dropping of the pistol could damage internal parts. Century will release a severe duty upgrade by Sept 8th.


That and more is at only guns and money dot blogspot dot com.


We need people to donate bandwidth at GRPC


(How do you donate bandwidth?)


Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast.  I’d like to thank (Amanda Suffecool and Paul Martin for joining us today.  So for Amy, Tracy, Belle, Jae, Dana, Douglas, Gary, John, Rachel, Susan, Craig, and Rob,

(Paul, stop talking now)


Rob: Until the next time…

Gary: stay safe,

Tracy: be aware,

John: and we’ll see you down the road.


(after show close) How could we have made this episode better?


(DO NOT READ)Look at the shooters club by Bob Mayne and Ben Branam.  For $75.00 a year, $6.25 a month, you get 24/7 access to some fantastic training and audio podcasts that you can’t get anywhere else.  Subscribing from the link in our show notes helps Bob and Ben as well as helps us here at the Polite Society Podcast.


Episode 277 – Frank Fiamingo and Ebola Prepping

Paul: Welcome to the polite society podcast recorded live on Sunday October 19, 2014. I’m Paul Lathrop

John: I’m John Richardson, and we’ll talk with Frank Fiamingo of NJ2AS

Gary D: I’m Gary Daugherty and I think Cook County, IL is trying to create a gun registry

Gary: I’m Gary Harpster and we have a discussion about gas masks and surgical masks

Gary D: so climb aboard

John: strap in

Gary H: and hang on!

Paul: Episode 277 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.

Show intro music.

Seg 1- Personal news from each participant

John – I spent yesterday morning at a gun auction. It was the auction of a guy’s accumulated gun collection. It was mostly hunting guns. The thing I found most interesting is what people would bid up. For example, a Chinese SKS that reputedly was a Vietnam War bring-back with no proof or documentation went for $900. I could see this with proof but otherwise it is just another Norinco SKS that should have sold for $3-400.

Paul – Not much gun related. No recent donations to our GoFundMe page to get equipment for streaming GRPC 2015, but we still have about 11 months to go. I want to say a public thank you to both John and Gary D for making contributions. Lots of planning for next year. confirmed final plans for Citizen First Response with Chaz Murray, Ken Kowalski and Jon Hodoway. Also going to have Beyond Concealed Carry Enhanced and Cornered Cat classes next summer.  Add that to doing Shot Show this winter and GRPC next fall and trying to arrange going up to the great white north to do the Slam Fire Radio Charity shoot in June and it is looking to be a REALLY busy year next year.

Gary D. – I got to shoot the new guns, both very nice. Because they will eventually be PDFs I will shoot some PD ammo through them before the get put into service in that capacity. I wanted to do a quick follow up from the end of the last show. Rob and Rachel were talking about situational awareness and coincidently at around the same time I was talking to a student about exactly the same thing. This student has his permit but chooses not to carry, and I was explaining Jeff Cooper’s levels of awareness and how if we walk around in condition white we aren’t able to control the escalation of our awareness. We just get surprised by a bad guy and are thrown into condition black. If you are unfamiliar check out the link in the show notes, and be aware whether you are carrying or not.


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Seg 2- News

John –Politico is reporting that in true Rahm Emanuel fashion a group of Democrats are using the current Ebola scare to try and push for confirmation of Dr. Vivek Murthy as Surgeon General. You may recall that Murthy has been held up in the past because of his rather extreme anti-gun views. The Democrats making the most noise about this are members of the house, and since the Senate confirms appointees we don’t have a lot to worry about on this subject right now, but we will keep an eye on it.

Paul comment – a surgeon general has recently been a cheerleader with no real power and as such wouldn’t help much with Ebola, and if the position ever got real power we definitely would have issues with someone like Murthy.

Paul – Shocking as it may sound, CNN actually ran a story illustrating a young shooter in a positive light. They profiled Shyanne Roberts, age 10, of Franklinville, NJ who is a 3-Gun and USPSA competitor. Last year, she was second highest woman in the New Jersey Ruger Rimfire Challenge. Shyanne started learning the rules of gun safety at age 5 from her dad Dan and began shooting at age 6. She says, “”I want to be an inspiration to other kids and be a leader. Kids and guns don’t always mean bad things happen.”

Gary D – Cook County, IL started a gun registry and I missed it.


Paul  -A few episodes back we mentioned that GOA hadn’t yet released their 2014 voter guide. Well it is out now. It seems to us  that it is a little late in the game for this to come out with the elections being just a few weeks out, and early voting already started in several states, but better late than never.

John – Comment – While I generally agree with the grades, it could be better organized. For example, in South Carolina which has both US Senate seats up for grabs, all the candidates are lumped together instead of by each contest.

Gary -We are mostly pro law enforcement here, and actively look for places to promote positive police stories, and it could be said that when speaking of the rank and file officers of the Asheville NC police department that that is the case here. wlos.com is reporting that 44 of the rank and file officers have signed a petition that states they believe that their chief should step down immediately. There are allegations of corruption as well as complaints about short staffing and mandatory overtime.

John – I live in the Asheville area. Chief William Anderson doesn’t take responsibility for when things go wrong. An example recently was a number of radar guns having outdated certification which led to dismissal of a number of speeding tickets. Anderson denied knowing about it which is either a failure of communication or a failure of management.

John -While the last story was about average cops doing the right thing, the next story comes right out of the you have got to be kidding me department. A 5 year old in Alabama was kicked out of class and was forced to sign a contract stating that she will tell an adult before she commits suicide or murders someone. Her offense – holding a crayon and stating “pew pew.” The girl’s mother was understandably outraged and infuriated when the 5 year old was forced to sign the contract without her parent’s knowledge or consent.

Paul comment – in most states a contract signed by someone under 18 years old is unenforceable. In a few instances the person requiring the signature can face criminal penalties.

Gary –MyFoxDC is reporting that DC police chief Cathy Lanier thinks that people who have a carry permit should be able to be arrested without warning if they are carrying in the area of a Presidential motorcade. She thinks that a policemen giving a warning and asking the person to leave the area is too large a burden. “The fact that the event is a gun-free event and is both posted and advertised should be sufficient notice,” she said. She also stated that it was difficult to provide advance notice of motorcades carrying dignitaries through city streets and said it was reasonable for gun owners in the vicinity of such events to be personally warned.

John -Miguel over at the Gun Free Zone Blog had a post this week discussing the story that South Carolina prosecutors are no longer allowing the victims of domestic violence to use the “stand your ground” defense.  Here is a quote from that post from a South Carolina prosecutor. “(The Legislature’s) intent … was to provide law-abiding citizens greater protections from external threats in the form of intruders and attackers,” prosecutor Culver Kidd told the Post and Courier. “We believe that applying the statute so that its reach into our homes and personal relationships is inconsistent with (its) wording and intent.”  So now you have a law that protects you in your home… except when it doesn’t.  Also you can defend yourself… except when you can’t.

Paul (I REALLY want to do this story) – long time listeners to the show know that I have had my issues with Robert Farago and The Truth About Guns. However the story that he posted Thursday has a lot  of people up in arms. The police chief of Watervliet NY (water FLEET) is asking for Facebook usernames AND PASSWORDS in pistol permit applications. Robert called the police department and had a conversation with Chief Ron Boisvert. The following is directly from the post

The Chief told TTAG that the sheet shouldn’t have been in the application packet – and won’t be in future. “It’s for internal use only,” he said.

Yes, well, the Chief said he uses the form to gather the applicant’s Facebook deets during a face-to-face interview. Why make note of the password? “We don’t,” he insisted. “We ask the applicant to log on to Facebook in front of us.” So the Chief scrolls through the applicant’s Facebook page searching for . . . ?

“Pages they’re looked at, friends – anything that reflects on the character of the applicant.” I pointed out that there’s a big difference [in terms of privacy] between viewing a Facebook page as a friend and viewing it as the owner. The Chief wasn’t bothered by the distinction.

When I pointed out that checking someone’s Facebook page (in front of them no less) was unnecessary, unfair and unconstitutional, the Chief said “I’m just the middleman here” and “it is what it is.” He said the information gets sent to a Superior Court judge who makes the final decision. The Facebook search is, in fact, the judiciary’s idea. I mean, requirement.

I asked the Chief what would happen if someone refused to log on to their Facebook account. “I’d just note the fact and send it to the Judges.”

Gun Quotes

Paul – We put out a post asking for gun quotes this morning on our Facebook page and we got a LOT of them. So many of them are good so we will be using them over the next several shows. Today’s quote was submitted by Kathy Jackson, (yes THAT Kathy Jackson)  “The way you get shot by a concealed weapons permit holder is you point a gun at him.” – Spartanburg County Sheriff Chuck Wright

Hang on everybody, Our interview with Frank Fiamingo is up right after this.

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Segment 3 Interviews

Frank Fiamingo – President NJ2AS

Segment 4 DGUs

Paul – Our first DGU comes from a Montana newspaper and we just LOVE the headline: Failed fumbler fears fleeing

Quoting directly from the article

ROLLINS – It appears alleged burglar Cole J. Johnson was more afraid of the neighbor holding a loaded gun on him than he was of the four cops who showed up to arrest him.

Under the barrel of his neighbor, Johnson, 20, of Lake County, remained still, caught in the act of burglarizing a Rollins-area home in North County. But when the police arrived, Lake County Undersheriff Dan Yonkin said Johnson tried to run.

The incident started about 10 p.m., Oct. 9, when a woman called 9-1-1 to report that her husband and two sons went to her neighbor’s house with a loaded gun, interrupted an attempted burglary and were holding the suspect at gunpoint.

While three Lake County Sheriff’s deputies and a Montana Highway Patrol trooper responded to the scene, another neighbor called dispatch to report they heard gunfire. The first 911 caller suspected Johnson was highly intoxicated, according to the call.

Johnson hid in a dark place inside the house where the gun-toting neighbor could not see him, emergency dispatchers said. But the gun-toting neighbor already saw the broken window and knew he was hiding.

“Don’t move or I’ll shoot,” the neighbor said. According to Yonkin, the gun-holding neighbor was just trying to scare the failed burglar, shot a warning into the air and held him at gunpoint until cops arrived.

When officers arrived on scene they noted that Johnson was “very drunk,” and had an active warrant out for his arrest and he tried to flee when taken into custody, Yonkin said.

Johnson was cited for attempted burglary and felony criminal mischief and taken to CSKT Tribal Jail.

John -Two armed home invaders in Shawnee, Oklahoma ignored the security system sign, the motion sensors, and the alarm system when they broke into Frances and Cardell Banks’ home around 2:30am Wednesday morning. The elderly couple had lived there for 40 year. When one of the armed home invaders broke into their bedroom, pointed his shotgun at the couple, and told them to get on the floor, Mr. Banks responded “You get out of here.” He then shot the intruder in the chest. The intruder along with his accomplice then fled the house. Justin Ray Harjo, age 26,  was later found under a truck and taken to the OU Medical Center for emergency surgery. He is in the ICU is serious condition.

There is more to this story. According to Mr. Banks, he didn’t have any experience with firearms. “No! That’s my first time shooting a gun,” he said. His wife Frances said they bought the gun hoping to never need it, but now she’s glad it was there. Mr. Banks also said his gun jammed after the first shot.

Comment – The Banks were lucky.

Gary -A strange DGU came out of Lakeland Florida on Saturday. According to theledger.com Michael Thomas White trespassed on 2 properties on Saturday morning. At the second he encountered the homeowner. When she asked him to leave he brandished a 12 ½ inch double edged dagger. The homeowner then got her husband and his Mossberg 12ga shotgun.  When the husband asked him to leave White stated that his sister was a witch and had been burned at the stake on that property and therefore the property was his. He then threw the dagger, at which point the husband shot white in the arm. According to the article White started dancing around and flailing his arms, then exited the property.  He was found in a grocery store parking lot a few blocks away and was arrested and taken to the hospital with non life threatening injuries.

We have the links to each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com if you want to share them with a friend.


Segment 5 Show close

Listener e-mail discussion

Jacob sent in our first email

Last podcast you all had a wonderful debate about the trainer refusing to train Muslims.  I enjoyed listening to the responses, and like so many other times when listening to intelligent debate, I could appreciate the opinions expressed, even if I didn’t always agree.  I found myself often bringing up counterpoints in my head, only to hear someone bring the very same point up on-air, which was satisfying, to say the least.  One point was not brought up, so I felt I should say something about it.

It is definitely a reality that if you soak a crucifix in urine and try and call it “art,” you’ll get a “tsk-tsk” from the Christian community, whereas if you draw an image of Muhammed with a bomb under his turban you may very well have a firebombing at your house.  That said, someone (I don’t recall who) said that while it was only an extremist minority committing violence or terrorism, the rest of the Muslim world wasn’t protesting or condemning them publicly, which makes them complicit.  This would be true, if the media chose the very condemnations we’re looking for.  I remember recently reading a pretty cool point-by-point condemnation of ISIS in an open letter from over 100 Muslim clerics.  I’ve included a link to both the text, and a news article discussing it.



A few gems:

“10. It is forbidden in Islam to harm or mistreat in any way Christians or any ‘People of the Scripture’”

“13. It is forbidden in Islam to force people to convert”

“16. It is forbidden in Islam to enact legal punishments (hudud) without following the correct procedures that ensure justice and mercy.”

“17. It is forbidden in Islam to torture people”

About 9/11 – On the very day of the attack (or so this article indicates), American Muslims spoke out and condemned the attacks.


“American Muslims utterly condemn what are apparently vicious and cowardly acts of terrorism against innocent civilians. We join with all Americans in calling for the swift apprehension and punishment of the perpetrators. No political cause could ever be assisted by such immoral acts.”

It happens, but it appears it gets the same coverage in the American media that is given for attempted mass shootings stopped by CCW holders.  That is to say, not very much


Paul – Mike in NJ wrote in a brief email stating that Ah-Ha’s Take On Me was the best music video ever made, not Robert Palmer’s Addicted to Love. I emailed him back and stated that while Take On Me was likely in the top 10 it was not even close to the best ever… Must be something in New Jersey’s water. Bad gun laws and bad taste in music’ videos.


Greg in Bremerton emailed this in.


Your opinion, is this worthwhile?  You can answer in an Email or cover it on your next show.

Thanks for your time.

Greg, Bremerton


(DO NOT READ)The Polite Society download app is out on Amazon for Android and the I-phone app is in I-tunes and it is called Podcast Box.  They are located by our old name, Politics and guns.  Hot links are in our show notes.

John do you want to mention anything off of your blog you would like to talk about? – NOTHING from ME.

(DO NOT READ)Look at the shooters club by Bob Mayne and Ben Branam.  For $75.00 a year, $6.25 a month, you get 24/7 access to some fantastic training and audio podcasts that you can’t get anywhere else.  Subscribing from the link in our show notes helps Bob and Ben as well as helps us here at the Polite Society Podcast.

(DO NOT READ)Join your local civil rights group like the New Jersey Second Amendment Society, Arizona Citizens Defense League, Gun Owners of California, Commonwealth Second Amendment,  Connecticut Citizens Defense League, Florida Carry, Georgia Carry, Georgia Gun Owners, Grass Roots North Carolina, Illinois Carry, Maryland Shall Issue,  Michigan Gun Owners , Michigan Open Carry, and  Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners.

There are Minnesota Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance,  Nebraska Firearms Owners Association,   Citizens for a Safer New Jersey, New York State Rifle & Pistol Association,  Palmetto Concealed Carry, Open Carry Texas, Texas Firearms Freedom, Texas State Rifle Association. Tennessee Firearms Association, Virginia Citizens Defense League, Virginia Open Carry,  West Virginia Citizens Defense League, wisconsingunowners.org, and Wyoming Gun Owners.

For our Canadian listeners, and their supporters, join the Canadian Shooting Sports Association and the Canadian National Firearms Association.  If YOUR state or local organization isn’t read each episode, then send us an email and we’ll add them!

Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast.  I’d like to thank (Guests) for joining us today.  co-hosts, will you be with us next time?  I’m looking forward to it.  Until the next time…

Paul : stay safe,

Gary D. : be aware,

John: and we’ll see you down the road.

Mention advertisers, ABN, Concealment Solutions, Crusader Weaponry and NJ2AS. Firearm Safety Institute

Episode 189 – R.P. Ruggiero

Open: Hi and welcome to the Politics and Guns Podcast recorded Wednesday, the 11th of December, 2013. I’m Paul Lathrop.

Rob: I’m Rob Morse, and on tonight’s show we’ll talk with R. P. Ruggiero, author of the Brushfire Plague series of books.
Paul: We’ve got the latest gun news and DGUs to share with you, so climb aboard
Rob: Strap in
Paul: And hang on, episode 189 of the Politics and Guns Podcast starts right now.
Show intro music.

Seg 1 Catching up
Tom is shopping for Christmas – Pawnshop for guns?
Rob- Dry Practice from concealment, slow, fast, trigger reset, strong and weak handed slow fire, reloads and malfunctions.  My hoodie drawstrings got caught in the safety.
Paul – on the road, dry fire, figured out a way to do dry fire trigger reset on the glock.

advertisement ABN – Prepping
Seg 2- News
advertisement Concealment Solutions and Nighthawk
Jersey City, New Jersey now includes civics questions along with its bids to purchase firearms for police.  The city asks vendors if the manufacturer allows images of its products to appear in video games and what the company does to combat illegal gun trafficking. Don’t you feel better now.  Let’s go ask the nice police officer if whale parts were used to manufacture his gun.

The New York City Police Department has sent out more than 500 letters demanding gun owners turn in their weapons, weapons made illegal by New York City’s preemptive gun laws.  These laws made long guns illegal if they hold over 5 rounds.  Gun owners can turn in their guns, leave New York City, or sell the guns outside New York City.  Have any of our listeners received a Bloomberg love letter yet?  Can anyone remember when registering a long gun prevented a crime?

Also from the big apple- The New York Police Department sent two detectives to Kenya to collect lessons learned from mass murders in the Nairobi Westgate mall.  They learned there were only four attackers.  The attackers never fired automatic weapons.  They had a few grenades. They killed 67, wounded over 200, and slipped out of the mall and escaped at night after 18 hours in the mall.  The responding Kenyan military shot two SWAT officers by mistake, killing the commander of the Nairobi SWAT unit.  The lessons learned for civilians are to leave the building rather than hide in place.. and carry your gun if you can and shoot on the move.
This could happen here!

The New Jersey Second Amendment Society sponsors a Home Defense seminar on Thursday evening, December 19th in Brick, New Jersey.  The seminar includes presentations on how to harden your home, prepare a safe room, alert the police, and how to apply for a New Jersey Firearms Identification Card.  The event is free, yes FREE!  But, registration is required and the event is expected to fill up quickly.  See the NJ2AS site or check our show notes for the link.
(Reminds me that best defense against an armed attacker is a locked door.)

In the next segment we have an interview with author RP Ruggiero.  RP wrote Brushfire Plague and Brushfire Plague Reckoning, available in paperback and Kindle.  It was an interesting interview, and we have links in the show notes if you want to buy his books for Christmas.

 Hang on everybody, we’ll be right back after the interview with our DGU segments and close out the show.

Seg 3
Advertisement NJ2AS and Slipstream
RP Ruggiero interview.
Seg 4
Show close
DGU1- From Toledo, Ohio- A burglar called 911 to ask for help after being shot. 21 year old Randy Estrada was charged with burglary after being shot by a homeowner while climbing in the homeowner’s window.  Estrada left the scene, but called 911 for help.  Getting shot and arrested is a tough way to learn a lesson.

DGU2- A 37 year old burglar was shot in the arm by a 76 year old homeowner in Hampton, Virginia.  The homeowner called police when he heard glass breaking downstairs.  The police searched the premises and left empty handed.  The homeowner found the burglar in a closet of the barbershop attached to his home.  The burglar was shot and fled, but then captured by police and taken to the hospital for treatment of minor wounds.  It has to hurt twice being shot by someone twice your age.

DGU3- Defensive gun use number 3 is reported in the Chicago Tribune.  A 25 year old man out on parole for a previous armed robbery tried to rob a cellphone store at gunpoint Tuesday evening.  The store owner drew his handgun and killed the thief.  Imagine that, a previously convicted criminal got a gun in the gun-control paradise of Chicago.  Times have changed now that honest Chicago citizens can legally own firearms for self-defense.

Humorous photograph- Obama gets all gaga over Danish Prime Minister, Michelle is nearly drawn on by the secret service just from the looks she is giving the Prez. She then MAKES HIM SWITCH SEATS!

Michelle-Obama-unhappy-at-Mandela-memorial-2912452Listener e-mail discussion
Email from listener Jeff
Couple holsters with tlr laser light attachments.  Blade Tech, Safariland

We have cellphone applications out now for Android at the Amazon store and I-phone is coming.

Contact us by e-mail at Paul@politics and guns.com, Toby, Tom (sticks@), Rob, Susan, or Onair to reach all of us. Of course you can always call 605-215-1438 and leave a voice message.

Roadgunner mag 40 class in Centerton, Arkansas at Shoot House USA May 15th thru 19th 2014

Listen to other podcasts on the Gun Rights Radio Network, the Crusader Podcast Network, and give Roadgunner a listen (NSFW).

Please join the National Rifle Association, the Second Amendment Foundation, Gun Owners of America and Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership.

Also join your local civil rights groups, like New Jersey Second Amendment Society, Michigan Gun Owners, and Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners.  Maybe there are other groups out there, but their members have not e-mailed us.  In that case, send us a snail mail if you’re a Detroit Lions fan and can’t figure out how to use e-mail.  Don’t worry, you can buy self-adhesive stamps and envelopes so you won’t get hurt by papercuts.

(For the web page- Join your local civil rights group like NJ2AS, Illinois carry, Illinois rifle association, Arizona citizens defense league, Texas rifle association, Texas Firearms Freedom, Buckeye Firearms.  (And if we left your group out, that means you didn’t e-mail us yet.)  Join a local group even if they are in an adjacent state.)

Paul, We have another Glen Tate interview on the weekend. That wraps up another episode of Politics and Guns.  Until the weekend show…
Rob, stay safe,
Paul, be aware,
Rob, and we’ll see you down the road.
Outro and disclaimer

Episode 96 – Getting to Know You

In this episode Toby (or Mickey Mouse we aren’t positive) and Sticks have a long conversation that ranges from guns to why kids are overweight. Paul and Toby talk a little more about the proposed armed march into DC, and Paul once again rants about drivers.

Episode 86 – Glen Tate Returns and Kathy Jackson’s Quick Tips

Glen Tate returns to co-host with Toby and Paul, topics range from how to start prepping and three gun batteries to states “opting out” of federal rules. Kathy Jackson also joins us for a new weekly segment, and we have a new hero of the week and imbecile of the week.

Show Links:

299 Days

Cornered Cat

Episode 77 – Bob Mayne and Glen Tate

News from Congress on gun bans, and gun bans working through legislatures in Illinois, New Jersey and New York. Bob Mayne and Glen Tate are guests.

299 Days

Handgun World Podcast

Today’s Survival


I must apologize for not getting the website links updated in a timely manner. I was without my laptop for most of this week. ~ Paul