Episode 328 – Laura Carno and Jeff Street

Full Episode Download: http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/328.mp3

Open and Personal News Segment: http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/328-1.mp3

News Segment 1: http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/328-2.mp3

News Segment 2: http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/328-3.mp3

News Segment 3: http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/328-4.mp3

Interview Segment 1: Jeff Street: http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/328-5.mp3

Interview Segment 2: Laura Carno: http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/328-6.mp3

DGU Segment 1: http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/328-7.mp3

DGU Segment 2: http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/328-8.mp3

Email and Show Close: http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/328-9.mp3

 

Introduction

“An armed society is a polite society.. and this is the Polite Society Podcast where we support and report on civilian self-defense.”

Paul: Welcome to the polite society podcast presented by the Firearms Policy Coalition recorded Sunday May 3 2015, I’m Paul Lathrop

Rob: I’m Rob Morse and on tonights show we talk with Laura Carno about her post, “no, I will not shut my pie hole”.

John: I’m John Richardson, and we’ll talk about the Baltimore riots.

Gary: I’m Gary Daugherty and in one of our DGU’s a homeowner uses a handgun to defend themselves after their home was burglarised for the second time in a week…  so climb aboard

Rob: strap in

John : and hang on!

Paul:  episode 328 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.

Show intro music.

 

Seg 1- Personal news from each participant

 

Gary- Waiting for my AR to arrive by mail.  Added lights to my safe.  I’m going to hear Sonal Shah speak.

 

John – I had a hearing exam on Monday. I have tinnitis or ring in the ears that is due to exposure to loud noise when I was younger. I did something stupid but that was common back then – I shot without hearing protection. Now I have both ringing in the ears and high frequency drop out. I’m sure there will come a time when I need hearing aids. In other firearm related personal news, I finally weighed the lightweight AR I built. Without optics and a backup rear sight, it comes in at 5 lb, 12 oz. With those attached, I’m still only at 6 lbs 2.7 oz. I just need to find time to try it at the range! I’m also gathering parts now to make a retro style AR. This AR building is addictive!

 

Rob- I was in Los Angeles earlier this week, so I dropped in and heard Alan Korwin speak.  Alan owns and runs Bloomfield press.  He wrote many books and has a great blog called page nine.  Doris started the group, Children of Jewish Holocaust Survivors and the group Jews can shoot.  Alan spoke about what to do after you’ve defended yourself.  That was interesting, and the audience was interesting.  Also, Doris gave me a great hat.  I shot IDPA and mentored another group of doctors for their first shots.  Someone brought a FN 5.7 and they let me shoot it.  It is loud, but doesn’t have much recoil.

 

Paul – RANT

 

I need to go off a bit here. I had a friend and dedicated fighter for our rights post a video to my wall asking if he knew who the person was that was in the video that he posted. The video was of a single person doing an “open carry” demonstration of the sidewalk in front of the federal courthouse in Sioux Falls. The video came in 2 parts and never showed the face of the person who recorded the video. I did not recognize the voice of the person and so I replied and said that I didn’t although the kid was a bit of a ummm jerk. I said worse on Facebook, but I keep the show very family friendly.

 

It turns out that I do know the person. They replied on Facebook and let’s just say that the butthurt was strong in that one.

 

Let me take just a minute here and let me let you know how I feel about open carry, although for many of you this may be a bit of going over well trodden ground I think that it is important.  Actually let me read a post I made to facebook and I will continue on after that.

 

I support your Second Amendment rights, I believe that you have the right to posses and peacefully use any weapon that you can afford. This includes everything from the 10-22 to the F-22. I also support your 1st Amendment rights to say whatever you feel, to worship whatever God you believe in and associate with whomever you chose to.

My hobby and part time side business ( Polite Society Podcast) relies and advocates heavily on both of those rights guarantees the Constitution offers.

However if you are one of those that are being a jerk about your 1st and 2nd Amendment rights, doing some of the myriad of things that hurt us. Things such as open carrying in a manner that causes public alarm; carrying a rifle in a place of business (some leniency given to those in Texas and other states where open carry of handguns isn’t allowed);, or making videos while egging police on just to hopefully make a “YouTube celebrity” out of yourself while using a fake name you are hurting us badly.

I use my real name both here on Facebook and on my show. I don’t hide behind some made up moniker. If you cannot put your real name to what you are doing, if you would not be proud to have your social media posts displayed to your parents, to your preacher, to your doctor or to your grandchildren (whether or not they agree with you) then PLEASE for the love of God DON’T post them!

A lot of people have “friended” me on Facebook because of the show. Thank you to all of you who have, even if I haven’t met you personally or interacted with you often. If you think that I might be referring to you in this post then it’s possible that I am. I beg of you to please look at what you are doing and think to yourself “Is what I am doing going to alarm someone who may be neutral to our fight and make them think that the other side may be right?” (end of FB post)

 

I support your right to open carry. I open carry my handgun while at home. I have participated in organized open carry walks. If done correctly open carry can be a powerful tool to help us. If done incorrectly it can be a tool for Bloomberg’s demanding mommies, CSGV (coalition to stop gun violence, and the Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence? )and others to point and say “look at the loonies that they have! Even worse, it can make the average citizen who votes, and is neutral to our side turn away from us.

 

While you are open carrying EVERYTHING that you do is magnified. If you are polite and respectful, if you are dressed well and well groomed, and if you inspire confidence in those around you that helps us.

 

If however you are a jerk to those that you interact with, if you are untidy or unkempt, or most importantly if you instil fear you are doing more damage than demanding mommies or the brady bunch ever has.

 

Again I ask, if your actions could be seen to intimidate PLEASE think twice about doing them.

 

Rob- We are ambassadors.  Are you a good ambassador who will appeal to the average citizen?

 

Break

Seg 2- News

 

Paul- Leading the news we have conflicting statements from Baltimore Mayor Stephanie Rawlings-Blake.

 

The mayor said the following in a press conference when things started to get ugly in her city. (Audio clip #1)

 

After getting some criticism she then decided that she never actually said that at all, and that we were just twisting her words. (audio clip #2)

 

-Paul- this is classic Progressivism. She is going on as if nothing ever happened. Making it up as she goes along. I would suggest Mayor Rawlings-Blake that you mark the block that your personal residence is on as a place set aside as room to destroy That sounds like a better balance to me than places where hard working people are trying to make a living.

 

We are going to take a quick side trip here. while perusing Facebook one evening I came across a video that puts the Police violence thing in perspective. Here is some audio. (Audio clip #3)

 

-Paul-  A couple of things about this caught my attention. First that they looked not just at deaths but at all charges of excessive force by officers, Second that they broke things down by contact.

I am one that doesn’t respond well to percentages and so did some of my own math on the figures they presented. If 2000 people are contacted in one form or another by police 1 person will file an excessive force complaint. Of all the complaints only 8 percent had merit, so if police were to contact 25000 people on average only 1 complaint of excessive force would have any merit. That is a DAMN good track record.

 

Rob- there are 20 gang murders for every gun related homicide that involves a policeman.  The vast majority of the police involved shootings are ruled to be justified by self-defense.  That puts violence into perspective.

 

Rob-  Taxes and regulations in Baltimore drove businesses out of the city.  Unemployment jumped.  Addiction rose to record levels.  Fatherlessness rose as young men could not find jobs and start families.  People who still had jobs left Baltimore because of increasing crime.  The price and quality of housing crashed, just as it has in Detroit.  While all of this was happening, the city, state and federal governments poured extraordinary amounts of money into housing projects and schools.  Now a black drug addict whose mother was a drug addict was injured by a mostly black police force controlled by black politicians.  People rioted and burned stores owned by koreans. Government policies killed Baltimore.. and now they are looking for someone to blame.  The politicians will blame racism.. and propose the police wear body cameras.

 

Let’s also ask every elected official to wear body cameras too.. with another camera placed in their office.  That is leading by example.  Anything else is politics as usual.

 

Break-

 

John-

Waiting periods

There are several myths about gun control.  The first is that waiting periods save lives.  A waiting period is the delay between purchasing a firearm and taking possession of it,.  It has been called a “cooling off” period that could stop impulsive actions.  That doesn’t make sense if the buyer already owns a gun.  That is what a Federal Judge said in California, but California politicians appealed the judge’s decision anyway.

 

One Wisconsin lawmaker finally had the courage to state the obvious about waiting periods.  Wisconsin Senator Van Wanggaard served as a traffic investigator and graduated from the Racine police academy.  He said waiting periods don’t work.  Studies backed him up.  Waiting periods don’t change the overall suicide rate or homicide rate.  Some studies found a decrease in violence while other studies found an increase in violence associated with waiting periods.  The results hinge on a critical distinction, are we disarming a violent criminal.  or a potential victim.  The proposed change in Wisconsin law eliminating waiting periods goes to the Wisconsin Assembly and then, hopefully, to Governor Scott Walker for his signature.

 

Background checks fail again

Background checks are another gun-control myth.  Making honest gun owners re-register their firearms is somehow going to stop criminals from getting a gun.  Would it stop car theft if we had to go to the department of motor vehicles so I could drive your car?  Mandatory background checks are being proposed in the Oregon legislature.  Background checks are already mandatory in Washington state so we can see if they are effective.

 

Despite their gun prohibitions, the impossible happened this week in Thurston, Washington.  A high school student brought a gun to school and started shooting.  He was tackled by a teacher, and no one was injured.

The student was sixteen years old, so couldn’t own a gun.

The student was on probation, so couldn’t touch a gun.

Thank goodness Washington State has mandatory background checks so the student couldn’t take someone elses gun.. but he did.  Detectives say the student wanted to commit suicide by cop.

It looks like gun prohibition doesn’t work, but that won’t stop bigoted anti-rights politicians.

 

– In New York state, any pretext is good enough for another firearms restriction.   Now an Amish man is suing New York because of state gun laws.  New York requires a background check whenever guns change hands.  The background check requires a photo identification card.  The Amish don’t have photo identification, so now they can’t buy or sell guns in New York.  Tell me again who new york laws are protecting us from?? from the Amish?

 

– In Vermont, Bloomberg’s anti gun groups were pushing for mandatory background checks each time you took possession of a gun.  They spent almost 138 thousand dollars promoting the legislation.  Pro-rights groups spent only 20 cents for every bloomberg dollar.. and the pro-rights groups won.  There are no mandatory background checks in Vermont.  That took work from vermont gun owners.  Well done!

 

BREAK


Rob- 7th Circuit Upholds Assault Weapon Ban

On Monday, the Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals upheld an Illinois city’s ban on so called assault weapons and high capacity magazines. This stunning ruling specifically dismisses the Constitution, the Bill of Rights and recent case law and instead relies upon the presumed feelings of the public. The majority of the three judge panel held that “if a ban on semi‐automatic guns and large‐capacity magazines reduces the perceived risk from a mass shooting, and makes the public feel safer as a result, that’s a substantial benefit.” In other words, if some the public can be convinced that the ban could make them safer, it’s OK; facts be damned. It’s hard to imagine a more incoherent legal justification.

In his dissenting opinion, the third panel judge wrote that the ruling is “at odds with the central holdings of Heller and McDonald: that the Second Amendment protects a personal right to keep arms for lawful purposes, most notably for self-defense within the home.”

 

This issue will almost certainly go before the Supreme Court at some time. For the citizens of Highland Park, Illinois, and of this nation, we can only hope it’s soon.

 

John – Why do I have the song Feelings running through head. “Feelings, nothing but feelings, oh, oh, oh”

 

Gary- Two  judges side with the politicians to give them more power.  Judges say all it takes is a good sounding headline to justify disarming the public.  The uninformed public will “feel safer” after they read the political spin.

 

Anti-Gun Researcher Refuses to Debate Dr. John Lott

The research director for Bloomberg’s astroturfing Everytown for Gun Safety, recently refused to debate gun law researcher John Lott. While we can’t blame Bloomberg’s mouthpiece for being chicken, after all, Dr. Lott is a force of nature with facts and statistics, his refusal to talk face-to-face is telling: antis just don’t have the facts on their side.

 

C-SPAN invited both gentlemen to discussed a recent Pew Research Center study that found more Americans now think protecting gun rights is more important than controlling gun ownership. Everytown’s Mr. Alcorn declined  to appear at the same time as  Dr. Lott, resorting to personal attacks to explain his refusal. Alcorn was allowed to appear after Dr. Lott, completely eliminating every possibility of give and take.

 

Lott said he was disappointed someone from Everytown wasn’t willing to discuss the Pew Center’s findings. The Pew study showed Americans who had once worried about crime and favored strict gun control, now wanted no more laws or even to loosen gun restrictions. “In short, we are at a moment when most Americans believe crime rates are rising and when most believe gun ownership — not gun control — makes people safer,” wrote Pew’s Andrew Kohut. “Every country in the world that’s banned guns has seen an increase in murder rates,” said Dr. Lott, president of the Crime Prevention Research Center and the author of “More Guns, Less Crime: Understanding Crime and Gun Control Laws.” Lott said that with more stories about defensive gun use being distributed in the new media, people are catching up to research on the issue. He reiterated that predictions of gun control advocates have never come to pass.

 

Spreading the word of lawful defensive gun uses is a big part of what we do here at the Polite Society Podcast.  It seems we are helping to make a difference.

 

Michael Moore Relies on the 2nd Amendment?

Big screen fabulist, virulent anti-gunner, noted hypocrite and left-wing barking moonbat Michael Moore may be supporting Michelle Obama’s claim that chronic obesity can lead to early-onset senility.

 

Very early Thursday morning, the big chunk took to Twitter to demand the immediate release of every African-American in prison for drug or nonviolent offenses. For his next belly-flop into insanity, Moore imperiously demanded that all police instantly disarm. Oddly enough, he justified that stupidity by noting; “We have a 1/4 billion 2nd amendment guns in our homes 4 protection.” Although true, that’s very odd reasoning from someone who wants the public’s firearms seized at gunpoint by the police. However, apparently even that blind pig can find an acorn of 2nd Amendment truth once in a while.

Go to bed Mikey, you’re drunk on yourself.

 

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Gun Quotes

It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. Upton Sinclair

 

Hang on everybody, we’ll be back with our interview segment.

advertisement Concealment Solutions

 

Segment 3 Interviews

 

Jeff Street teaches firearms safety at his church.

First Baptist Church Naples

3000 Orange Blossom Drive

Naples FL 34109

 

Do you charge? Free.  Can’t charge when we use the church buildings.

How long have you been teaching at the church? About 2 years

How many attend the classes? 10 – 45

What is the goal of the class? This class is a great refresher for those current firearm owners and a wonderful introduction for those who are seeking information to start their firearm journey.

Emphasis on Dry Practice Training drills you can do at home to improve your fundamental skills including but not limited to grip, stance, trigger press. We also work on safe handling while drawing from holster, strong hand to off hand gun transitioning, etc. We also discuss personal defense ideas and issues. Mindset, The Law and Physical Skills.

What equipment do you use?  Blue Guns, SiRT Laser Pistols, Train Safe Barrel Blocks, Clearly marked dummy ammo (no live ammo is allowed in the classroom), LASR software from centroloutions using Infrared cameras and infrared SiRT pistols.

What is the overall reception to the training? They like it very much.  They also come to our live fire classes at LouLand Gun Club.  We put on Scoot and Shoot events at least twice a month.  The scoot and shoot is competition with yourself.  Some come to improve their competitive skills and some come to practice their self-defense skills. Some do both on the same day.

What are your credentials?  We have instructor certifications from; the NRA, Defense Training International John Farnam, RangeMaster Tom Givens, and Gabe Suarez.

 

Contact Jeff Street at Step by Step Gun Training

http://stepbystepguntraining.com/drypracticeclass/

 

Laura Carno’s blog post on legislative stategy-  No, I Will Not “Shut My Pie Hole!

Laura’s other websites are-

I am created equal.

Laura Carno.com

 

Segment 4 DGUs

 

(WHY DO WE WANT TO LIST EXAMPLES OF WHAT NOT TO DO? -ROB)
I see it as part of our charter to teach and inform. I think it is an important story, as long as this type of issue is not overdone. However, I could certainly be wrong – I’m married after all.  😉 Dan

 

XX- The news media won’t call it a defensive gun use, but we saw it in Ferguson, Missouri.  We saw it again this week in Baltimore, Maryland as well.  We saw stores smashed, looted and burned during riots.  We also saw store owners protect their businesses by standing there with a firearm.. and with no shots fired.

A Baltimore Sun reporter left his Crips gang member protection and was maced by a looter demanding his cell phone. The attack was stopped when the reporter ran to a store owner with a shotgun.  More guns, less crime.

 

Tennessee Homeowner Shoots Robber

An East Knox County, Tennessee homeowner was startled awake early Wednesday morning by the sound of breaking glass. From his bedroom, the homeowner saw an intruder climbing through a living room window. The owner fired once, and the robber fell backwards. Police found the perpetrator dead on the porch.

The late James Melvin Vinson had accumulated an extensive criminal record in his 40 years, including multiple theft and drug charges. At the time of his final crime, he had two outstanding warrants; for theft and for violating the parole that put him back on the street once again. Mr Vinson was the very definition of an outlaw; largely unrestrained by the legal system.

 

The homeowner is not expected to face charges. Under Tennessee’s Stand Your Ground law the man was within his rights when he used a gun to defend his home and his family.

 

Misuse of a Citizen’s Firearm

With rights come responsibility. A North Carolina man failed to use his rights responsibly in a shoplifting incident at a store. A man ran from the Beasley Power Equipment store with a pilfered a chainsaw. The thief jumped into a vehicle with two others while being pursued by the store owner’s son. They sped off after the son brandished the pistol and ordered them to stop. Two shots were fired at the departing vehicle and the driver was hit in the head. The store employee reported those facts to a 911 operator, along with an admission that he had seen no firearm. Their conversation, of course, was being recorded.

 

Our DGUs usually show the proper lifesaving use of firearms. For educational purposes, we do comment when their use could have been better. As such, we must point out when someone is legally and morally wrong when employing a weapon.

 

Most states hold that firearms can only be used in the defense of one’s self and others. A fleeing thief is simply not a danger to the CCW holder. Only a few states allow deadly force in defense of property; North Carolina is probably not one of them. In any case, a chainsaw cannot be equated with a human life. The pistol owner simply should not have fired in that situation. He should have been a good witness and reported the license plate numbers to the police.

The driver has been hospitalized in critical condition, his two confederates charged with felony theft. At this time, the shooter is under investigation by the district attorney. The shooter and his business will almost certainly face civil lawsuits. Self-defense classes like Massad Ayoob’s MAG 20 would have would have certainly made this mistake less likely.

 

Homeowner Shoots Two in Second Home Invasion in a Week

In the warped world of the criminal, they can come to feel they own something merely by desiring it. This can lead to repeated, seemingly improbable, attempts to possess the thing. This may be what happened to a California homeowner this week.

 

In the normally peaceful Pittsburg, California neighborhood, a homeowner shot and killed two home invaders Friday evening. This was the second time in a week that their home had been a burglarized. In the earlier incident, four people had been arrested. At this time, it is not known if the two deceased were somehow related to the earlier incident.

 

A neighbor wondered if there was a the connection between the two home invasions. “There’s no way of knowing,” he said. “They broke in and ransacked the place, and maybe they saw something they liked and came back.”  “If I was in (the homeowners) position, I would have done the same thing,” he said.

 

BREAK

 

Paul-

Salt Lake City Warning Shot

A his and her burglary team broke into a pricy Salt Lake City area home Monday morning. Alerted by the family’s dog, a neighbor called 911 and the homeowner grabbed a gun. At one point, the homeowner fired a warning shot, chasing the duo out of the house – and straight into the arms of the arriving police. Authorities report that the suspects have previous criminal histories.

 

Warning shots are rarely a good idea. The self-defense use of a firearm is usually limited to life or death situations. If the victim has time for a warning shot, almost by definition the situation cannot be that critical. That bullet has to go somewhere, perhaps threatening someone in the home or some distance away. And the victim has thrown away a significant portion of their life-saving device’s resources.

 

Quality formal training may have kept the homeowner from making this possible error. That being said, we commend the homeowner, the neighbor and police for the happy resolution to this home invasion.

 

Store manager shoots would-be robber in East Houston

The manager of an East Houston Cash-n-Carry was assaulted in the front door of his store Thursday morning. A robber put a gun to his back and demanded his cash. It apparently wasn’t the manager’s first rodeo, as underneath the package in his arm – he held a legally concealed handgun.

 

In that extreme situation, the manager used his gun and put two or three shots into the chest of the armed robber. The robber died at the hospital. An accomplice may have fled the scene in a getaway vehicle.

 

The robber paid the ultimate price for nothing, as the manager’s bag didn’t contain the hoped-for cash, instead only toiletries. To the good, the manager was able to stop the theft of his own life through his foresight and preparedness.

 

Utah CCW Stops Carjacking

 

A Utah CCW holder stopped a carjacking at a Macy’s in Orem, Utah on Saturday and ended a crime spree. The unidentified CCW holder, a 31 y.o. male,  had been shopping and came out into the parking lot to see a woman screaming as she was being pulled out of her Mercedes. The carjacker had stolen a truck earlier and was “trading cars”. The CCW holder ordered the carjacker out of the car. The carjacker then lunged at the man and tried to take his firearm upon which he was shot and killed. Police are treating this as a legitimate use of deadly force and are not charging the CCW holder. The carjacker, whose name is being withheld pending an autopsy, was wanted on several felony warrants. Police are searching for two other accomplices who fled.

 

Houston CCW Stops Carjacking

Wednesday evening a man was sitting in his vehicle in downtown Houston when two men asked for a ride. The motorist naturally refused and the two men left, but they came back. At gunpoint, the driver was ordered to kneel behind the car. When both men got in, the victim drew his legally possessed CCW and fired at the driver. The 30 year old carjacker died a short distance away, his accomplice escaped on foot.

 

The case will be referred to the grand jury to determine what, if any, charges will be filed.

 

Man Shoots Attacker With Attacker’s Gun

And lastly, a hapless New Orleans thief was shot with his own gun after his armed robbery attempt went dramatically sideways. The intended victim was having none of the assault, won the struggle for the gun, and immediately employed it in self-defense.

Good on the victim for turning the tables on the feckless thief. However, it’s usually best if you bring your own concealed weapon, rather than relying on the perpetrator to supply one for you.

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We post each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com  Please take a minute and share them with a friend.

 

BREAK

 

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Segment 5 Show close

 

Listener e-mail discussion

 

We got this comment on our website and we thought that we would share it.

 

Great show. I was surprised to hear that more firearm genre radio programs could not be recalled, so allowe me. There is the “Lock Stock and Daria” out of Rhode Island (local), “On Target” broadcasting out of Illinois (local), Georgia Carry.org out of Atlanta (Local), now these are just off the top of my head. But you all are correct Gun Talk was the first nationally (key word) syndicated radio show and it was decades before they were challenged. As with National Media’s bias towards gun self defense stories, what they are not realizing or unwilling to realize is that local media has to report such events in their news cycle. What happens is average Joe one night watches the local channel 5 and learns of a single mother with two kids suffer a home invasion possibly ending with death, the following week average Joe watches a story of an 85 year pistol packing Ethel putting six in a bad guy saving her sick husband’s life. Now average Joe starts to think, and begins to talk to friends and so on and so on, the whole time national media sit in their New York bubble believing they are controlling the message, and fortunately with new gun friendly media that is no longer a true statement.

Keep pumping them out, I’ll keep listening.

 

Paul- Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?

 

Rob- I asked the question, How Does a Business Survive a Riot?  We saw it in Los Angeles.  We saw it in Ferguson.  Now we’ve seen it in Baltimore.  I have answers from Charles Heller, Dave Cole, Miguel Gonzalez, George Hill, Stephen Wegener, Ben Branam and Layla Sumners.  You can find their answers at SlowFacts dot wordpress dot com

 

John do you want to mention anything off of your No Lawyers – Only Guns and Money blog you would like to talk about?

 

I just want to quickly mention two posts that are related. First, I posted about Lonnie and Sandy Phillips. They were the plaintiffs who are now liable for attorneys’ fee for having sued Lucky Gunner and Sportsman’s Guide. We expressed some sympathy for them in the podcast last week. Turns out they are Brady Campaign employees and have been since 2013. Second, I did post the first of my Bad Apple Lawyer series featuring Prof. David Kairys who developed the public nuisance theory that was used in many municipal lawsuits against gun makers.

 

Both of these and more can be found at my blog. The address is onlygunsandmoney.blogspot.com

 

We would like to thank Charlie Foxtrot for writing up show notes for us. Even though you don’t hear him on the air he is a big part of what you get to hear.

 

Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast.  I’d like to thank (Guests) for joining us today.  co-hosts, will you be with us next time?  I’m looking forward to it.  Until the next time…

Gary: stay safe,

Rob: be aware,

John: and we’ll see you down the road.

 

Mention advertisers, Concealment Solutions, Crusader Weaponry and NJ2AS. Firearm Safety Institute

 

(after show close) How could we have made this episode better?

 

(DO NOT READ)Look at the shooters club by Bob Mayne and Ben Branam.  For $75.00 a year, $6.25 a month, you get 24/7 access to some fantastic training and audio podcasts that you can’t get anywhere else.  Subscribing from the link in our show notes helps Bob and Ben as well as helps us here at the Polite Society Podcast.

 

(DO NOT READ)Join your local civil rights group like the New Jersey Second Amendment Society, Arizona Citizens Defense League, Gun Owners of California, Commonwealth Second Amendment,  Connecticut Citizens Defense League, Florida Carry, Georgia Carry, Georgia Gun Owners, Grass Roots North Carolina, Illinois Carry, Maryland Shall Issue,  Michigan Gun Owners , Michigan Open Carry, and  Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners.

 

There are Minnesota Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance,  Nebraska Firearms Owners Association,   Citizens for a Safer New Jersey, New York State Rifle & Pistol Association,  Palmetto Concealed Carry, Open Carry Texas, Texas Firearms Freedom, Texas State Rifle Association. Tennessee Firearms Association, Virginia Citizens Defense League, Virginia Open Carry,  West Virginia Citizens Defense League, wisconsingunowners.org, and Wyoming Gun Owners.

 

For our Canadian listeners, and their supporters, join the Canadian Shooting Sports Association and the Canadian National Firearms Association.  If YOUR state or local organization isn’t read each episode, then send us an email and we’ll add them!

 

(DO NOT READ)The Polite Society download app is out on Amazon for Android and the I-phone app is in I-tunes and it is called Podcast Box.  They are located by our old name, Politics and guns.  Hot links are in our show notes.

 

Episode 234 – Jeff Hulsey

Intro- “An armed society is a polite society.. and this is the Polite Society Podcast where we support and report on civilian self-defense.”

Paul: Welcome to the polite society podcast recorded live on Saturday, May 3rd, 2014. I’m Paul Lathrop.
John: I’m John Richardson, and tonight we will talk with Jeff Hulsey. Jeff is the retired gunsmith that we wrote about on our website a little more than a week ago.
Rob: I’m Rob Morse and we have our regular news segment and stories of defensive gun use.
Paul: so climb aboard
John: strap in
Rob: and hang on!
Paul: Episode 234 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.
Show intro music.

Seg 1
Personal news from each participant
Break
Rob- Took some friends through dry practice and room clearing. Yes, we taught slicing the pie and the fatal funnel of doorways. After that exercise with finger guns, they understood why you call the cops to investigate a bump in the night.. and why the police send in dogs. Shot a steel match this morning. Traded guns with a friend who was having problems hitting the target. I’m sad to say the problem wasn’t the gun.

Seg 2- News
John – Mark Glaze, executive director of Everytown for Gun Safety, announced he plans to resign in June to do “other things”. Glaze had previously been the director of Mayor Bloomberg’s Mayors Against Illegal Guns since 2011. He helped to orchestrate the merger of MAIG with Moms Demand late last year. Glaze said it was time for him to hand the fight off to someone else.

While there is no word on a successor, speculation centers around John Feinblatt who previously was the chief advisor on gun control issues while Bloomberg was still in office. Of course, they could always go with Shannon Watts which would make many in the gun-rights community happy given her proclivity for both lying and making errors.

Rob- Paul has a speech, a lecture, a tirade, a tear.  He is about to espouse, advocate, lecture and pontificate.  Here is his rant.

Paul – Although not gun related Chris, one of our regular contributors of feedback sent us a link that he thought we would be interested in. For those of you who have been long time listeners of the show you know that we spent a lot of time covering the Benghazi attack we have had Anthony Mele on several times to talk about it. and even though we haven’t covered it on the air recently I have been keeping tabs on it. This week emails surfaced that thanks to Judicial Watch were forced by the Obama administration to be made public through a FOIA request. The Administration originally denied the request and Judicial Watch sued and won. The released emails show that the Obama administration was directly behind the changing of the story of the attack being about  a demonstration about a YouTube video instead of being what it actually was, a coordinated attack on our consulate. I listened this week to the Fox News feed on Satellite Radio riveted, as Retired Brig. General Lowell testified in the House of Representatives on Thursday.  General Lowell clearly stated that there was no attempt to assist the victims of the attack because the State department would not request help. One phrase sticks out in my head “we are trained to move towards the sound of the guns” Our military was refused that action. There was a 7 hour attack. Then Secretary of State Hillary Clinton released a statement at 10 pm Eastern that September 11th, while the attack was still going on. I am not and never have been in the military, but having the limited knowledge of military that I do, there is no doubt in my mind whatsoever that in 7 hours WE COULD HAVE DONE SOMETHING!

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Rob- Professor John Lott started an Indiegogo campaign to raise $300,000 to start the Crime Prevention Research Center. The CPRC’s goal is to counter the bogus anti-gun research that is being funded by major donors such as George Soros’ Open Society Foundation and the Robert Woods Johnson Foundation not to mention money from Michael Bloomberg. The funding for anti-gun research is aimed at going around Congressional prohibitions on using the Center for Disease Control to promote gun control as a public health issue. The Indiegogo funding will let Professor Lott hire additional research associates, gather data, and continue research on topics central to gun debate. $500,000 would fund Professor Lott’s the Center for a full year.

This research will help counter the lies pushed in the mainstream media by our opponents who would willing curtail both our gun rights and our civil rights.

Rob- I’m in.  Let’s give a shout out to every listener who contributes?

Rob- Louisiana State Senator Neil Riser sponsored legislation allowing active and retired law enforcement officers in good standing to carry a concealed firearm into any place open to the public, though they can’t drink or be on medication when they do so.  That is essentially constitutional carry.  The bill passed the house committee on a voice vote and and is expected to pass.

Yawn, another perquisite of having a badge, but here is why this is interesting.  Civilian concealed carry holders are less likely to commit a crime, even a firearms violation, than are law enforcement officers.  So if we’re trying to minimize risk, then civilian license holders should be admitted first.  Did the Louisiana legislators think of that?

John- You don’t believe Rob?  Two drunken NYPD cops fired their guns in separate, off-duty incidents and both cops were arrested this week. Officer Brendan Cronin, was behind the wheel late Tuesday night when he unloaded on a 47-year-old man who was a passenger in a car that was idling in front of him, striking the passenger 6 times.  About three hours later, outside a strip club in Somerset County, New Jersey, NYPD Sergeant. Wanda Anthony fired at least one round at a former boyfriend and his new girlfriend.  In this case, no one was hit. Anthony fled in her car and was then pulled over and charged with driving while intoxicated.

Earlier that week, off duty detective Jay Poggi shot his partner through the wrist after each had downed at least 11 drinks in the Rockaways, Queens, New York City.

John- Florida Carry has sued Broward County in state court for violating the state of Florida’s firearms and ammunition preemption statutes. The county has refused to change its ordinances which attempt to regulate the possession of firearms and other weapons in certain areas. Included in the Broward County ordinances are prohibitions against the possession of firearms, switchblades, knives, clubs, etc. by common carrier truck drivers.

Florida Carry is joined in a second suitfiled Friday against the City of Tallahassee by the Second Amendment Foundation. The city’s ordinances prohibit the discharge of a firearm for ANY reason in the city’s parks and recreation areas as well as any place other than areas zoned agricultural that are larger than 5 acres.

Rob- Some local politicians are smarter than those in Broward County and Tallahassee.  This week in Idaho, Madison County Commissioners repealed a ban on guns in public buildings as required by state law.  The Sheriff’s Office, Madison Memorial Hospital and other public buildings had been labeled as gun free zones.  The  signs are coming down.  According to Madison County Sheriff Roy Klingler, those who plan on committing a crime aren’t gonna be stopped by a sign or some lettering on a door.  In fact, putting guns in good hands can actually reduce the likelihood of mass shootings and other incidents.

Well said, Sheriff Klinger.

Rob- because Rachel is working today, I’ll carry this Texas news-  About 18 people showed up for a public rally of the newly formed Gregg County chapter of Open Carry Texas.  The group handed out literature on Texas gun laws.  Texas has 254 counties, so there are lots of chapters.  This is the fourth activity of the newly formed group in Gregg County.

Rob- John, what about your post “Guns In Schools Save Lives”  http://onlygunsandmoney.blogspot.com/2014/05/purdue-university-homeland-security.html

Rob- Paul, here are some more statistics for you.  Sociologist Andrew Papachristos reported an important fact about Chicago criminals.  He looked at arrest records and mapped the individual networks between criminal gangs.  70 percent of all non-fatal shootings occur in networks comprising less than 6 percent of Chicago’s total population.  That means these few gang members are 12 times more likely than average to assault with a firearm.  It turns out they mostly shoot the ones they rob with and are arrested with.  That is why gun laws that disarm the general population of Chicago are ineffective, and counter productive.  I guess Everytown for Bloomberg money forgot to mention that little fact.  I’m glad we’re here to remind them and you.

Paul- Gun Quotes
“The police of a state should never be stronger or better armed than the citizenry. An armed citizenry, willing to fight, is the foundation of civil freedom.” Author Rober A Heinlein in his book “Beyond This Horizon” published in 1942.

Hang on everybody, we’ll be right back after this
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Seg 3 Interviews

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Segment 4 DGUs

John- When Keith Groves of Point Loma, CA heard a crash and then a window breaking at 4:22 AM on Tuesday, he jumped out of bed and looked out to see a kitchen window broken and his garage door open. He then retrieved his revolver and confronted a man standing beside his mint ‘32 Ford Roadster. It was then that Groves realized that he was standing stark naked as he held his revolver on the intruder. And that was the sight that the SDPD saw when they arrived. It was only then that the retired San Diego Fire-Rescue Department battalion chief was able to get dressed. Any comments?

Rob- One of my instructors said the police get pretty good at telling the good guys from the bad guys.  Standing there undressed is called a clue you were asleep in bed when the break in occurred.

Rob- Do you remember the Federal Express sorting facility where all the employees were disarmed, including the security guard who was seriously wounded?  Well that situation was avoidable.  Here is a similar case in Texas where a construction worker had been fired from a work site in the West Campus are of Austin.  The worker came back and threatened the foreman, and a police report was filed at that time.  Then the fired worker came back with a gun and shot at the foreman.  This time the foreman drew his own handgun and shot the assailant.  The foreman had Concealed Handgun License and was allowed to have his gun on the worksite.  Both men were taken to University Medical Center Brackenridge. The foreman suffered a serious injury, while the suspect suffered a potentially life-threatening injury.  Firearms author and trainer Stephen P. Wenger notes that the fatality rate of gunshot wounds in the US about 15%, so being shot does not mean you’re out of the fight.

We have the links to each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com if you want to share them with a friend.

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Segment 5 Show close

Rob: The Polite Society download app is outon Amazon for Android and the I-phone app is in I-tunes.  They are located by our old name, Politics and guns.  Hot links are in our show notes.

John: We’re experimenting with the show all the time.  Please send us an e-mail to tell us what you like or dislike.  You can contact the show by e-mail.   Email Onair@politicsandguns.com to hear your email read on the air. If you would like to email any of the hosts directly just email their first name and then add at politics and guns dot com..  Call 605-215-1438 to hear your voice on the air!

Rob: That’s 605- 215- 1438

Rob: Roadgunner’s Mag 40 class in Conway, Arkansas at Shoot House USA is scheduled for May 15th thru 18th 2014 you can register here.

John: Also please check out Kathy Jackson’s Cornered Cat training classes. Her next class is the weekend of May 17 in Philadelphia. Go to Cornered Cat dot com for more classes and details.

Rob: Also please check out the shooters club by Bob Mayne and Ben Branam.  For $75.00 a year, $6.25 a month, you get 24/7 access to some fantastic training and audio podcasts that you can’t get anywhere else.  Bob is giving away his M&P Shield to one lucky member.

John: Listen to other podcasts on thethe Crusader Podcast Network.

Here is a shoutout to slamfire radio, but the polite society podcast has more facebook likes than they do.

Rob: Join theNational Rifle Association,Second Amendment Foundation,Gun Owners of America andJews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership.  Joining two makes you a hero.  Supporting all four makes you a super hero.

John: Join your local civil rights group like theNew Jersey Second Amendment Society,Arizona Citizens Defense League,Gun Owners of California,Connecticut Citizens Defense League,Florida Carry, Georgia Carry,Georgia Gun Owners,Grass Roots North Carolina,Illinois Carry,Michigan Gun Owners , Michigan Open Carry,

Rob: and Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners, Minnesota Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance, Nebraska Firearms Owners Association,   Citizens for a Safer New Jersey,Open Carry Texas, Texas Firearms Freedom, Texas State Rifle Association. Tennessee Firearms Association, West Virginia Citizens Defense League and Wyoming Gun Owners.

John: For our Canadian listeners, and their supporters, join theCanadian Shooting Sports Association and theCanadian National Firearms Association.

John: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast. Until the mid-week show…
Rob: stay safe,
John: be aware,
Paul: and we’ll see you down the road.

Paul: This show copyright 2014 Paul Lathrop and Polite Society Podcast.

Episode 230 – Lax Data Security at NAGR

News

John: The lead story of the week has to be Mayor Bloomberg’s renamed gun control organization, Everytown for Gun Safety. While they got gushing stories from the NY Times, NBC, and the rest of the mainstream media, they blew their social media rollout.

Little more than a month ago at the South by Southwest Festival in Austin, Shannon Watts and Mark Glaze were putting on a presentation entitled “Disrupting the Gun Lobby with Digital Organizing.” So what happened when they rolled out their renamed astroturf organization? Some enterprising gun rights activist snagged the Facebook page for Everytown for Gun Safety. There are now over 100 Facebook pages using some variant of that name and they all are pro-gun. This is what a real grassroots effort looks like. $50 million and 85 paid staffers can do a lot for you but they don’t make you a grassroots organization.

(Checking a few minutes ago, it looks like the pro-gun EGS page was taken down by FB. There are still a hundred more!)

Paul- The US Supreme Court considered Drake v. Jerejian at their weekly conference on Friday. This is the New Jersey case that seeks to overturn that state’s requirement for “justifiable need” in order to obtain a carry permit. Frank Fiamingo who was our guest this past Wednesday said he was hopeful that they would accept the case after rejecting cases from New York and Maryland. With the split in the Federal Circuits, the time is ripe for the Supreme Court to decide on this issue. We will know on Monday whether or not the Supreme Court decided to grant certiorari to the plaintiffs. Its takes four of the nine justices voting for it for a case to be heard by the Supreme Court.

Rachel – An explosion at the Rio ammunition plant in McEwen, Tennessee killed one worker and put two others into the hospital. The plant which makes shotgun shells is located 55 miles west of Nashville. It had 20 workers in it at the time of the explosion. Investigators from BATFE have concluded that the explosion was accidental. Killed in the explosion was Rodney Edwards. A GoFundMe page has been set up to help pay his funeral expenses.

Finally this is a story that John and I have been working on since last night..

On Friday evening we were contacted by Jeff Hulsey, a retired gunsmith from the Gulf Coast region of Texas. Jeff had a problem. Starting back in August of 2013 He began receiving emails at his personal email inbox, which is through the popular Gmail domain, that it did not appear were intended for him.

The emails were from the National Association for Gun Rights, a Colorado based 501c4 organization with the stated purpose of “Educating gun owners and gun rights’ supporters in gun rights issues both at the local and federal level”.

Jeff provided an email that he had redacted the identifying information from. The information, such as email address of the sender and the sender’s telephone number as well as any other information of a personal nature provided in the body of the email seemed to be forwarded from inside the organization. At the top of the email sent to us was a one word sentence. “Rebuttal?”

To Jeff, this looked like a simple mistake. It looked like someone had the wrong email address and was forwarding him email incorrectly. He tried to contact NAGR and got no response. He has since received about one email a month from them following the same pattern.

What concerns Jeff is the fact that even though he is trying to point out the fairly obvious error that they are making that they are leaking personal information to an unknown source. We asked Jeff if these emails were truly unsolicited. He replied, “Absolutely unsolicited. The only dealings I’ve ever had with the NAGR were to score a couple of stickers for the side of my toolbox. I’m not even a member.”

When asked if the rest of the emails looked like the email he provided to us he stated, “Yes. It’s random questions from people who visited their “Contact Us” page, then forwarded by someone within their organization for follow-up or review. Some of them contain some very specific personal information, like the USPS worker who details which facility he works at in pursuit of an answer to a legal question.”

The privacy policy listed on website for NAGR states in part that “We have put in place appropriate physical, electronic, and managerial procedures to safeguard and help prevent unauthorized access, maintain data security, and correctly use the information we collect online.”

Jeff has tried to get NAGR to correct this situation with no results. He’s gone to his local Better Business Bureau hoping that they could get NAGR to fix this situation with similar results. Out of his frustration over the situation, he is going public with it in the hopes that Dudley Brown and NAGR can get their act together. More importantly, he says that “NAGR needs to come clean on this and admit to fumbling private data, and openly implement measures to prevent it from happening again. Scrubbing my email from their lists isn’t good enough. They need to go through every email they’ve been forwarding mail to, every list they maintain, and make sure each email on that list belongs there.”

We agree.

The National Association for Gun Rights wants to be considered a major player on the gun rights front. At least that is what you are led to believe from the daily emails that they are sending out to what must be millions on their email lists. Of course, for those of us who know better, it is just spam.

An outgrowth of Dudley Brown’s Rocky Mountain Gun Owners, they have started to try and insert themselves into the gun politics of states other than Colorado. This is often in opposition to groups like the NRA and state-level gun rights organizations.

Privacy and data security is a serious issue and needs to be taken seriously. If NAGR wants to be taken seriously, they need to do something about this issue and sooner than later.

We attempted to get in touch with NAGR both through their website and through a Facebook message. As of the time we went public with this story we had only gotten return messages from the Facebook message. About 4 hours after we sent the message we received a link from them pointing to their privacy policy. No other commentary was provided. A return message was sent stating that it was they themselves that were violating their policy. We received a one word reply. “Huh?”

Gun Quotes
Hang on everybody, we’ll be right back after this

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Seg 3 Interviews

Advertisement Roadgunner Mag 40
Segment 4 DGUs

The story of April 19 from the Colorado 2nd Amendment Association (excerpt):

“Of the eighty men assembled that day, ten were wounded and eight were killed, including Jonathon Harrington, dying on his own doorstep in front of his wife and children. Five of the nine sets of fathers and sons who had assembled that morning suffered a death. Most had been shot in the back. We often think of dry history or sanitized and romantic notions of chess-set battles. But this is not what gave us the nation or the rights we enjoy. It was the terror-filled suffering, the spilled blood, the death by the thousands of people exactly like us.

“These were people who set out, not to form a new nation, but simply to have their wishes and rights respected by their government and they were often shocked to find themselves behind a musket – or at the point of a bayonet. Farmers and merchants, tavern owners and printers who believed they had the right to make their own choices in life and who were willing to face imprisonment and death to secure that right.

“Two hundred and thirty-nine years has not diminished the debt we owe them. And no passage of time will absolve us from our responsibility to preserve the spark of liberty they struck that day.”

Rachel – Another DGU from Detroit leads our stories tonight. This story is from the Click on Detroit website. Detroit police say one man is dead after a shootout between a Rosedale Park homeowner and suspected home invaders.
“Family members and the homeowner were in the basement playing video games when they heard noise upstairs and footsteps inside of the home,” said Detroit Police Sgt. Michael Woody, Detroit Police.
Police said two men broke into a home, with a third waiting in a getaway car. The duo tried to escape when they were confronted by the family in the home, on the 15000 block of Glastonbury Ave.
“There were shots fired in the home before the two suspects busted through the front door,” said Sgt. Woody. “That’s when the two suspects fired shots at the homeowner from outside, the homeowner returned fire striking the driver in the car.”
The two got away but the getaway driver was fatally hit, causing the car to crash into a neighboring home and injure a 29-year-old woman.
“I heard the crash and ran downstairs immediately,”
said Raymond Bradley, father of the crash victim. “I saw the damage and saw my daughter pinned in the bathroom she just kept saying ‘don’t leave me, don’t leave me’ and I told her ‘I’m right here with you.’”
The woman was taken to Saini Grace Hospital and treated for minor injuries. She has returned home.

John – Our next story comes from KTVU Television’s website
Richmond California i Friday morning are investigating an attempted burglary that ended with a fatal exchange of gunfire leaving the intruder fatally shot, according to authorities.
Officers responded to a Shot Spotter activation in the 1300 block of Coalinga Avenue at about 1 a.m., Sgt. Nicole Abetkov said.
When officers arrived, they found the owner of the property, a multi-use structure with a plumbing business in the front and a residence in the back, suffering from gunshot wounds to the leg, Abetkov said.
The victim, a 68-year-old man, had been woken up by his wife after she heard noises outside. The man grabbed his .45 pistol and investigated the noise. He apparently surprised the burglary suspect and shot him in the chest, according to police.
While it initially appeared that the victim exchanged gunfire with the burglar, it was later determined that the suspect fled over a fence while bleeding profusely and one or two accomplices entered to property’s courtyard and shot multiple rounds at the victim.
The victim was injured after being shot several times in the leg. The victim was alert when police arrived, but his injuries were serious enough that he was air lifted to John Muir Medical Center in Walnut Creek.
Authorities said it appeared the burglar didn’t think anyone was home. The suspect was driven to the nearby hospital where he was pronounced dead.
The three people who transported the suspect in a black SUV to the Kaiser Permanente Medical Center about a mile from the site of the shooting are currently being questioned at the Richmond police station. They say they were merely passing by and being good Samaritans, but police sources said they not only knew the suspect, but were involved in the crime and at least one of them shot the property owner.
Authorities said the victim was in serious but stable condition and is expected to survive

We have the links to each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com if you want to share them with a friend.

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Tips and tricks segment

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Segment 5 Show close

Listener e-mail discussion

Facebook message from Dave

Hey paul, I know I’m a little late with this feedback, but I just heard your rant about sheepdogs. I tend to agree with you, that my job as an armed citizen is not to save the world from bad people. But the point of the essay is not that the armed people should protect everyone else. He was addressing primarily policemen and soldiers, whose job it is to protect the population, but he also defined the sheepdog as someone who has the capacity for violence, coupled with a love of the “lambs”.

The point of the essay is to warn the sheepdogs that the sheep will fear you, because at a glance you look like a wolf. But also to reassure the sheepdogs that what they are doing is good, and right, and you should not give it up simply because some people don’t understand your motivations.

A big chunk of Grossman’s work and life mission is to help soldiers and police deal with PTSD by helping them understand that they are good people, what they were doing is good, what they’ve chosen to do with their lives is good, even if they end up having to kill someone.

In addition, even though you aren’t a sheepdog to the populace in general, you definitely are a sheepdog for your family. In Paul’s case, he has taken steps to protect his family by empowering them to get training and carry weapons themselves, but I also don’t believe that he wouldn’t employ some violence if he saw that it was needed to protect his wife.

Just my two cents, keep up the good work.

-Dave in Utah

Paul: The Polite Society download app is out on Amazon for Android and the I-phone app is in I-tunes. They are located by our old name, Politics and guns. Hot links are in our show notes.

Rachel: We’re experimenting with the show all the time. Please send us an e-mail to tell us what you like or dislike. You can contact the show by e-mail. Email Onair@politicsandguns.com to hear your email read on the air. If you would like to email any of the hosts directly just email their first name and then add at politics and guns dot com.. Call 605-215-1438 to hear your voice on the air!
John: That’s 605- 215- 1438

John: Roadgunner’s Mag 40 class in Conway, Arkansas at Shoot House USA is scheduled for May 15th thru 18th 2014 you can register here.

John: Also please check out Kathy Jackson’s Cornered Cat training classes. Her next class is the weekend of May 17 in Philadelphia. Go to Cornered Cat dot com for more classes and details.

Paul: John do you want to mention anything off of your blog you would like to talk about?

John: Actually I’ve had a number of posts on Everytown for Gun Safety. Perhaps the most interesting is entitled “Houses of Everytown”. It goes on to point out the many mansions of Bloomberg plus the million dollar plus home of Shannon Watts and says that it is easy to be for gun control when you live in a secure neighborhood and are protected by armed security guards 24/7.

Rachel: Also please check out the shooters club by Bob Mayne and Ben Branam. For $75.00 a year, $6.25 a month, you get 24/7 access to some fantastic training and audio podcasts that you can’t get anywhere else. Bob is giving away his M&P Shield to one lucky member.

Paul: Listen to other podcasts on the the Crusader Podcast Network.

John: Join the National Rifle Association, Second Amendment Foundation, Gun Owners of America and Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership. Joining two makes you a hero. Supporting all four makes you a super hero.

Paul: Join your local civil rights group like the New Jersey Second Amendment Society, Arizona Citizens Defense League, Gun Owners of California, Connecticut Citizens Defense League, Florida Carry, Georgia Carry, Georgia Gun Owners, Grass Roots North Carolina, Illinois Carry, Michigan Gun Owners , Michigan Open Carry,

Rachel: and Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners, Minnesota Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance, Nebraska Firearms Owners Association, Citizens for a Safer New Jersey, Open Carry Texas, Texas Firearms Freedom, Texas State Rifle Association. Tennessee Firearms Association, West Virginia Citizens Defense League and Wyoming Gun Owners.

John: For our Canadian listeners, and their supporters, join the Canadian Shooting Sports Association and the Canadian National Firearms Association

Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast. Until the (mid-week / weekend )show…
John: stay safe,
Rachel: be aware,
Paul: and we’ll see you down the road.
Outro and disclaimer

Lax Data Security at NAGR

By John Richardson and Paul Lathrop

 

On Friday evening we were contacted by Jeff Hulsey, a retired gunsmith from the Gulf Coast region of Texas. Jeff had a problem. Starting back in August of 2013 He began receiving emails at his personal email inbox, which is through the popular Gmail domain, that it did not appear were intended for him.

The emails were from the National Association for Gun Rights, a Colorado based 501c4 organization with the stated purpose of “Educating gun owners and gun rights’ supporters in gun rights issues both at the local and federal level”.

Jeff provided an email that he had redacted the identifying information from. The information, such as email address of the sender and the sender’s telephone number as well as any other information of a personal nature provided in the body of the email seemed to be forwarded from inside the organization. At the top of the email sent to us was a one word sentence. “Rebuttal?”

sample3-NAGR

To Jeff, this looked like a simple mistake. It looked like someone had the wrong email address and was forwarding him email incorrectly. He tried to contact NAGR and got no response. He has since received about one email a month from them following the same pattern.

What concerns Jeff is the fact that even though he is trying to point out the fairly obvious error that they are making that they are leaking personal information to an unknown source. We asked Jeff if these emails were truly unsolicited. He replied, “Absolutely unsolicited. The only dealings I’ve ever had with the NAGR were to score a couple of stickers for the side of my toolbox. I’m not even a member.”

When asked if the rest of the emails looked like the email he provided to us he stated, “Yes. It’s random questions from people who visited their “Contact Us” page, then forwarded by someone within their organization for follow-up or review. Some of them contain some very specific personal information, like the USPS worker who details which facility he works at in pursuit of an answer to a legal question.”

The privacy policy listed on website for NAGR states in part that “We have put in place appropriate physical, electronic, and managerial procedures to safeguard and help prevent unauthorized access, maintain data security, and correctly use the information we collect online.”

Jeff has tried to get NAGR to correct this situation with no results. He’s gone to his local Better Business Bureau hoping that they could get NAGR to fix this situation with similar results. Out of his frustration over the situation, he is going public with it in the hopes that Dudley Brown and NAGR can get their act together. More importantly, he says that “NAGR needs to come clean on this and admit to fumbling private data, and openly implement measures to prevent it from happening again. Scrubbing my email from their lists isn’t good enough. They need to go through every email they’ve been forwarding mail to, every list they maintain, and make sure each email on that list belongs there.”

We agree.

The National Association for Gun Rights wants to be considered a major player on the gun rights front. At least that is what you are led to believe from the daily emails that they are sending out to what must be millions on their email lists. Of course, for those of us who know better, it is just spam.

An outgrowth of Dudley Brown’s Rocky Mountain Gun Owners, they have started to try and insert themselves into the gun politics of states other than Colorado. This is often in opposition to groups like the NRA and state-level gun rights organizations.

Privacy and data security is a serious issue and needs to be taken seriously. If NAGR wants to be taken seriously, they need to do something about this issue and sooner than later.

We attempted to get in touch with NAGR both through their website and through a Facebook message. As of the time we went public with this story we had only gotten return messages from the Facebook message. About 4 hours after we sent the message we received a link from them pointing to their privacy policy. No other commentary was provided. A return message was sent stating that it was they themselves that were violating their policy. We received a one word reply. “Huh?”

 

Screenshot_2014-04-19-18-38-49