Episode 261 – Kyle Bacon

“An armed society is a polite society.. and this is the Polite Society Podcast where we support and report on civilian self-defense.”
Paul: Welcome to the polite society podcast recorded live on Saturday, August 16th, 2014. I’m Paul Lathrop
Gary: I’m Gary Daugherty and we have Kyle Bacon of the Search and Assess Podcast with us tonight.
John: I’m John Richardson, and we’ll talk about self-defense news
Rob: I’m Rob Morse and we have our weekly stories of defensive gun use
Gary: so climb aboard
John: strap in
Rob: and hang on!
Paul: Episode 261 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.
Show intro music.

Seg 1- Personal news from each participant

Paul – I was in a loaner truck this week as my regular truck had some MAJOR repairs needed. I wish that I had known that it was going to die on Sunday as I basically took the day off to enjoy with my wife. I didn’t edit the podcast, instead I thought that I would find the time to do the editing and uploading of the show when I had some downtime during the week.

The truck that I got for a loaner truck didn’t have AC power and I had to rely on a tiny power inverter that I use for charging cell phones in my pickup. My laptop that I use for the show totally overwhelmed the inverter and I wasn’t able to power up and edit the show.

Rob – I met with an instructor for some more teaching instruction. Other than that I shot dry fire.

John – I picked up my Ruger Security Six revolver on Monday from my local dealer. It is a 2 ¾” stainless .357 Magnum with nice checkered grips.
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Paul – Tonight I want to talk a bit about 2 stories that seem extremely dissimilar however I promise that I will tie them together at the end so please bear with me. Many of you know that I am a NASCAR fan. Last weekend, right about the time that we were wrapping up recording the weekend show there was a horrible accident at a race track in rural upstate New York. A young local race car driver was killed in this accident. Now not to sound crass, however this is something that happens about once a month during racing season somewhere in the United States. Racing is a dangerous sport by it’s very nature, and sometimes racers give their lives in pursuit of the sport that they love. Two things are a little unusual about this incident. First is that the young man who died, 20 year old Kevin Ward, was out of his race car and walking on the track. Second is that the car that hit him was driven by three time champion and  NASCAR superstar Tony Stewart.

The media climbed all over this and was all but calling Tony Stewart a murderer. Video of the wreck played over and over on ESPN showing (in poor taste in my opinion) the death of this young man.  Even in sports media the fix was in pushing hard on Mr Stewart. What wasn’t right about this was this, it truly was an accident. If you were to watch the video of the incident you can see that the young racer, clearly upset, gets out of his race car and approaches oncoming traffic from the right side. The sprint cars that these racers were driving on this dirt track have extremely limited visibility on the right hand side. there is no way that at the angle that the young racer approached Stewart that he could have been seen.

In all but the media that is dedicated to racing, Stewart was vilified. A small group of media that covers racing full time tried valiantly to point out the situation, and even though the local sheriff’s office repeatedly stated that although the investigation is ongoing it looked as though there was no criminal intent and that no criminal charges looked to be filed, the media smelled blood in the water and went after Stewart with vicious intensity.

How does this relate to anything we talk about on the podcast on a regular basis you might ask? Well also about the time that we were wrapping up the weekend show last week another thing happened in Ferguson, Missouri. In this event 2 young males walked in to a convenience store and committed a strong arm robbery. they stole about $50 in cigars and assaulted a clerk. When a police officer contacted the 2 males there was a struggle and at least one shot was fired inside the officer’s police cruiser and one of the males died. Once again in this example there were a couple of things that made this story exceptional . First there were witnesses that claimed that the young man “had his hands up” and second because the police force is a majority caucasian force and the young male was black it was an easy story to insert race into.

I listened to reports of both incidents on satellite radio as I drove this week. The initial reports of the Ferguson story stated that when the officer (who has been named by the police department but out of our respect for the officer we will not name) approached 2 young men and attempted to get out of his car the 2 men attacked him pushing him back into his car and attempting to get his gun from him.  However once riots began all reporting that attempted to produce facts in the mainstream media died away almost instantly.

Now let’s look a little bit at the “witnesses”. One was the cousin of the deceased. The other was known to the deceased. Do you think that they might have a little bit of a case to make up a story? I heard that ONCE in a broadcast on satellite radio and then never again. This includes listening to what I would call fairly reliable news sources such as Fox News and BBC America.

In both stories I think everyone involved would have been much better served by a reporting of the facts and an plea to allow a true investigation to reveal the facts in the case. Unfortunately we got neither. I haven’t heard any reports of fatalities in the Ferguson area and that is a good thing, What I have seen is a display of a militarized police force that is very good at escalating the situation and a community that has been whipped into a frenzy at least in part due to inaccurate reporting.

Where I am going with these 2 stories is this PLEASE be careful where you get your news. Look for multiple sources and look for inconsistencies. I am sure that back in the days of Walter Cronkite that the tools were not available that we have now to do our own research and to find things as quickly as we can, however that is one of the blessings that we have now.

I can state as the owner and executive producer of the podcast that we do make every effort to be sure that the news that we present to you is accurate. I am very appreciative to all of you who listen to us for news and commentary. We will continue to do our best to get you the best information we can, and with your help sending us links and opinions in email I know that we will not fall prey to the “get the story quick to get listeners” disorder that seems to have fallen on the mainstream media,

Rob- Journalists sell the excitement of a headline.  There should be more to the news.  It isn’t clear if the news crews care what really happened on the street so long as they get and keep eyes on their advertisements. Armed civilians with a badge versus unarmed unbadged civilians.

Paul- There were riots in Ferguson, Missouri after a teenager was shot by a policeman.  There was also looting and buildings burnt to the ground.  After that, firearms sales in local gun shops increased by 5 to 10 fold.  Local citizens became concerned for their own safety when local convenience stores were burned down.  Citizens are buying everything from handguns, to rifles, to shotguns.  People who already own firearms were back go buy ammunition.  Customers who normally save up and pay with cash were putting the purchases on their credit cards.  One gun-store owner put it this way.  The good news is  that people are taking personal responsibility for their own well-being.  Citizens are admitting that even the best law enforcement can’t be everywhere for everybody.  It is also sad that we need to protect ourselves from our neighbors.

John – comment – they are even buying AR-15s for home defense even though Judge Catherine Blake said they had no use for home defense. Could it be that these people know something she doesn’t?


John-  Police face a difficult job.  That job may be impossible in some of our larger cities.  A gang member describes the streets of New York.  Families are broken.  Working citizens and shopkeepers are harassed and disarmed by the city.  When he looks around, the only figures with any power are the armed drug gangs.  The kids on the street have figured out that only the fools obey the law.  That attitude is the result of failed economic and social policies.  That attitude will lead to high rates of violent crime, and it isn’t a problem that law enforcement can fix.

Rob Comment- I can relate to that, because my local government is seems like it is never out to help me, only to regulate and tax me.

John- In Washington DC, an off duty detective was shot in an attempted hijacking.  Another officer was shot during the search for suspects.  The municipal policy of disarming the citizens without a badge means criminals never fear their victims.. even if they victims are off duty police.

67 people were shot this week in Chicago.  New York City has stopped posting statistics on its shootings and murders.

Rob Commnet- Is that the most transparent administration on the east coast?

Gary- Mario Alejandro, 33, of Woodbridge, New Jersey is a Marine.  He served in the 2003 invasion of Iraq.  Last week he wore a T-shirt saying, “Keep Calm and Return Fire.”  Above the lettering was a modern rifle colored in red, white and blue.  Mr. Alejandro was stopped by a security guard at Six Flags amusement park because of his shirt.  The guard asked him to remove his shirt or buy a shirt and put it on to cover his T-shirt.  Mr Alejandro refused the request.  The guard checked with park management and then insisted Mr. Alejandro leave the park.

Alejandro said no veteran deserves the same treatment he encountered.  Quote “I fought for this country.  I laid in a hole for 36 hours with no sleep, and had friends die for this country and so the people here could have the freedom to [do] things like visit amusement parks. So when they told me that I couldn’t come in there with my family because of my shirt — a patriotic shirt — it hurt a lot. No other veteran should ever have to experience that.”  Six Flags entertainment operates 17 amusement parks. You can contact them here from the link in our show notes.

Rob- These words, “common sense gun-control”, they do not mean what you think they mean.  Our example of the day is from Representative Gabby Giffords.  She proposed a five step plan to stop gun violence.  Here are a few of her ideas-

Idea Two: “Authorize law enforcement to remove access to guns, with court oversight and plenty of protections to prevent abuse of this authority.” The owner of the guns would “only” get them back once he or she was “no longer a danger to themselves or others.”

Idea Three: “Require schools, including colleges and universities, to report violent or suicidal people to a court or administering agency.” These people would also have their firearms confiscated, but “could regain their firearms access…after a certain period of time.”

Idea Four: “Allow courts to issue ‘Gun Violence Restraining Orders.'” These result in temporary gun confiscation.

Idea Five: “Temporarily ban those who have been involuntarily hospitalized from purchasing or possessing firearms.”

I did not hear her mention mandatory reporting of the mentally ill by the county and state to the federal NICS system.  According to Giffords, common sense gun-control means confiscation.  You know, given the way most elected legislators act, they should be disarmed for mental illness.

Paul- Any of us with children know that kids take better care of their own toys than they do of other children’s toys.  It looks like the police in Des Plaines, Illinois have lost some of the AR style rifles they were given from the Defense Department.   The Des Plaines Police Department could be facing a federal investigation into the disappearance of two semi-automatic rifles.  Police Chief William Kushner admitted he doesn’t know where the two M-16A1 rifles went.  The weapons were given to the department in 2002 as part of a federal program to equip law enforcement agencies with military surplus weapons, and to help combat terrorism and drugs.  An internal audit required by the Defense Department failed to locate the two rifles earlier this year.  Chief Kushner, who took over as chief two years ago, said poor bookkeeping and widespread access to the armory are to blame for the guns’ disappearance.  He expected a closer look at his records and procedures from the Law Enforcement Support Office and Defense Logistics Agency, which manage the surplus property program.

John- Two bills advanced in the Michigan Senate that advance the right of self-defense.  Bill SB 977 passed in the state Senate, and helps active duty military maintain their Michigan Concealed Pistol License.  Many active duty Michigan citizens were losing their CPL because they could not apply for renewals in person.  The bill requires county clerks to accept applications and return renewals by first class mail.  This would also allow deployed military personnel to carry off base if their duty station has reciprocity with Michigan.

The next bill, SB 979, passed in the Senate Judiciary Committee by a 3 to 1 vote.  The bill realigned Michigan’s definition of “firearm” with the federal definition; such that “firearm” would be redefined to mean “any weapon which is designed to, or may be readily converted to expel a projectile by action of an explosive.” SB 979 also creates a separate definition for air guns. It also preempts local units of government from regulating air guns and spring guns on private property where authorization is given by the owner and the possessor takes precautionary measures to ensure that the projectile remains within the bounds of the property.

Both bills will be taken up when the legislature reconvenes in September.

Comment- It is probably worth calling your legislator’s office.

Rob- Here is more state news.  Governor Deval Patrick signed bills into law that further regulate long gun in Massachusetts.  The bills require Massachusetts citizens to receive permission from their police chief before they may purchase a long gun.  The bill requires that the chief appear in court to explain his denial of a Firearms Owners Identification Card.  It does not establish what constitutes good cause for denial or acceptance.  That means a potential gun owner must be willing to go to court to buy a gun.

The governor invited gun control activists to the signing ceremony and did not invite groups like the Massachusetts Gun Owners Action League.

Gary- Moving down to Connecticut, state Senate Minority Leader John McKinney lost his bid for the Republican candidacy to face Democrat Governor Dan Malloy in November. Senator McKinney was one of the architects of Connecticut’s restrictive 2013 gun laws.  Business man Tim Foley beat the incumbent senator by 11 percentage points.   Foley publicly supported citizens’ rights to bear arms.  Tens of thousands of Connecticut gun owners helped support Foley and helped get out the vote in this low turnout primary.  They lifted Foley to victory in all but one CT county.

Paul- Moving over to Minnesota.. You might remember last October when the National Football League issued a “no guns” policy at their events.  The Dallas Cowboys immediately announced that they would not obey that policy.  Now a judge has struck down the policy for off-duty Minnesota police officers.  Two police organizations challenged the rule, arguing that NFL policy cannot preempt state law. Police groups argued that even off-duty officers need to be armed at Vikings games, to protect themselves and the public.  The judge’s ruling applies only in Minnesota.


Comment- Why are citizens with badges at greater risk than citizens without badges?


Rob- Just when you thought that police officers were allowed to carry everywhere, we get to talk about Dallas, Texas.  Employees at the AMC 30 Theaters in Mesquite saw a police officer’s gun when the officer bent down to pick up a ticket he dropped.  The officer showed his badge and offered to show his ID, but the theater manager asked him to leave.  It seems we have not learned a thing from the Aurora Colorado murders in a gun free zone.

Gun Quotes -Paul- “In a perfect world, you wouldn’t need guns. This is not a perfect world.” – Sheriff Ben Johnson, Volusia (VO-LUSHA) County, Florida

Paul- Hang on everybody, we’ll be right back after this

Segment 3 Interviews
Kyle Bacon of the Search and Assess Podcast
Hand to hand is as old as man.  I study Kungfu.  Stay on your feet.

Segment 4 DGUs

John – A Jacksonville, Florida man and woman are in stable condition after a shootout with a home invader on Friday morning. A child in the house at the time was unharmed. The suspect, 21 yo Trevel Yates, however is dead.

The pair had just woken up when they heard a loud noise of someone breaking in the back door, Sgt. Michael Paul reported. The 50-year-old man fought with Yates and was hit several times with a blunt object. The man retrieved a firearm and exchanged gunfire with the suspect. The 60-year-old woman also got a gun and shot at the suspect.

WWRS?  What would Rachel Say.  Carry all the time or guess right.

Rob- A Visalia man is dead after being shot by a woman inside her home, Visalia police said Thursday morning.  The shooting took place after the woman had been attacked by a man she knew, police said.  46-year-old Albert Pena was declared dead at Kaweah Delta Medical Center about an hour later, Sgt. Damon Maurice said.  The woman, whose name was not released, was also injured and was taken to the hospital where she was treated and released… She and Pena were in a relationship and got into an altercation in which Pena assaulted her several times, police said.  While being assaulted, she got a gun from inside the home and shot Pena several times, police said.  She was not arrested and cooperated with police, Maurice said.  The case, which police said appeared to be self-defense, will be forwarded to the Tulare County [CA] District Attorney’s Office for review.

Gary- This Huntsville, Alabama home invader must have thought a life of crime would be easy. However, when the person he attempted to rob responded with his own firearm early Sunday morning, the unidentified home invader beat feet. Not only did he flee but he dropped both his gun and wallet as he was exiting.

Paul- This is the kind of DGU I like.  Four women were sitting outside at a Tacoma, Washington wine bar.  51 year old Robert Anthony Rashe brushed up against their table, and one of the women asked him to step back.  Rashe flipped over their table and hit the women in the mouth, knocking lose one of her teeth.  A male customer saw the fight from inside the wine bar.  He stepped outside and told Rashe to leave the women alone.  Rushe pulled out a 12-inch-long knife and walked toward the man.  An employee of the wine bar saw the group frozen in place and facing Rashe.  Rashe held the knife in a fighting stance.  The employee pulled his concealed handgun.  He then ordered Rashe to drop the knife and lie on the ground. The police found Rashe held at gunpoint when they arrived.  Rashe was charged with two counts of second-degree assault, and one count of third-degree malicious mischief.

Rob-  No shots fired, and don’t bring a gun to a knife fight.

John- They are lucky Rashe was a crazy amatur.  A trained professional with a knife could have cut all of them.

Paul- We have the links to each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com if you want to share them with a friend.

Tips and tricks

Segment 5 Show close

Listener e-mail discussion

Rob- This is from one of our listeners. He said, “Remember those “I am Trayvon” T-shirts? You know what we need? How about some T-shirts that say, “I am Shaneen”.

Ken S. from Phoenix in the Free State of Arizona.

Here is an E-mail from TJ
Hey Paul,
Thanks for the talk on the show.
I guess I worded my last sentence wrong. It’s not necessarily that I think we shouldn’t have the 2 parties that we do, I just hate that, for the most part, we are almost forced into one or the other because, as you mentioned, it’s really the only way to make change. It’s just a conundrum when you have to vote for someone that disagrees with something you are for, based on the fact that they are for 80% of the rest of your views, or you could vote for someone that agrees 100% with you (I know, not gonna happen), but by doing that you are basically just wasting your vote.

Thanks Paul,

( DO NOT READ)The Polite Society download app is outon Amazon for Android and the I-phone app is in I-tunes and it is called Podcast Box.  They are located by our old name, Politics and guns.  Hot links are in our show notes.

Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?

Rob- I wrote about the judge’s decision outlawing modern rifles in Maryland.  The judge says  modern rifles are too lethal for civilians who don’t wear a badge.  She said modern rifles are only used for assault, and not used for defense.. yet, according to the judge, it is permissible that civilians with a badge carry these same modern rifles.  The judge is wrong.  The articles are up at ammoland and the SlowFacts blog.

( DO NOT READ)Look at the shooters club by Bob Mayne and Ben Branam.  For $75.00 a year, $6.25 a month, you get 24/7 access to some fantastic training and audio podcasts that you can’t get anywhere else.  Subscribing from the link in our show notes helps Bob and Ben as well as helps us here at the Polite Society Podcast.

(DO NOT READ)Join your local civil rights group like theNew Jersey Second Amendment Society,Arizona Citizens Defense League,Gun Owners of California, Commonwealth Second Amendment,  Connecticut Citizens Defense League,Florida Carry, Georgia Carry,Georgia Gun Owners,Grass Roots North Carolina,Illinois Carry, Maryland Shall Issue,  Michigan Gun Owners , Michigan Open Carry, and  Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners.

There are Minnesota Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance,  Nebraska Firearms Owners Association,   Citizens for a Safer New Jersey,New York State Rifle & Pistol Association,  Open Carry Texas, Texas Firearms Freedom, Texas State Rifle Association. Tennessee Firearms Association, Virginia Citizens Defense League, Virginia Open Carry,  West Virginia Citizens Defense League, wisconsingunowners.org, and Wyoming Gun Owners.

For our Canadian listeners, and their supporters, join theCanadian Shooting Sports Association and theCanadian National Firearms Association.  If YOUR state or local organization isn’t read each episode, then send us an email and we’ll add them!

Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast. Until the ( mid-week / weekend ) show…
Rob: stay safe,
Gary: be aware,
John: and we’ll see you down the road.

Episode 253 – Jeff Knox

“An armed society is a polite society.. and this is the Polite Society Podcast where we support and report on civilian self-defense.”
Paul: Welcome to the polite society podcast recorded live on Saturday, July 19th, 2014. I’m Paul Lathrop
Rob: I’m Rob Morse and we have an interview with Jeff Knox, Director of the firearms coalition.
Gary Daughetry: I’m Gary Daughetry, and we have our weekly stories of defensive gun uses
Gary Harpster: I’m Gary Harpster, and we have our usual gun news
Rob: so climb aboard
Gary D: strap in
Gary H: and hang on!
Paul: Episode 253 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.
Show intro music.

Seg 1- Personal news from each participant

Paul: Museum story. My Son’s Birthday party story
Gary: I ordered a new left handed holster for personal and class training.
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1 Paul: Nick Leghorn over at The Truth About Guns reports that Remington has pulled all information about the R51, the handgun released this past winter just before Shot Show, off of it’s website. I REALLY wanted to like this gun, but was concerned when there were no examples available to fire at media day at the range. If true that it is going away  it is too bad. I really liked the style of the gun, it was kind of retro and futuristic at the same time. When I held the display model at the Remington booth it was hard to make the grip safety work reliably and the red dot laser was even harder to make actuate, but I thought that those things could be worked on. Alas it looks like Remington is not going to give the R51 a second try.

2 Rob- California Governor Brown signed a bill into law banning single shot handguns. This is an anti-gun solution in search of a problem.  Single shot firearms are not used in crimes.  Nor are firearms converted from single shot back to normal semi-automatic operation.  So why write and pass such a law?  This was a must pass bill for anti-gun Democrat legislators who are eager to secure campaign funding.  Money talks in the Golden State, particularly anti-gun  campaign donations.

Gary D- Maybe the hunters that think they don’t need the NRA will join now that they can’t use their Thompson/Center Encore anymore.

Paul- We have a lot of news from an epidemic of failed gun free zones.

3 Gary H- Jack in the Box restaurants all across the country continue to be an easy hunting ground for criminals since the company requested that gun owners eat elsewhere.  A Jack in the Box in Honolulu, Hawaii was robbed by a suspect carrying a rifle.  A Houston Texas Jack in the Box was held up by two armed robbers in broad daylight.  Including another holdup in Tennessee, two people were shot in some of the latest Jack in the Box robberies.

Brian Luscomb is Vice President for Jack in the Box.  He said, “Creating a warm and inviting environment for all of our guests and employees is a top priority for Jack in the Box.

The presence of guns inside a restaurant could create an uncomfortable situation for our guests and employees.. and lead to unintended consequences.”

Paul- Mister Luscomb, your gun free zone does not mean what you think it means.

Gary D- Another Bloomberg success story.


4 Rob- Speaking of Bloomberg success stories.. Target Department Stores have been targeted by thieves now that concealed carriers are not welcome.  A Target customer was robbed at gunpoint by several thieves in the parking lot at a Georgia Target store.  In another Georgia Target store, a woman was severely beaten and her car stolen from the store parking garage.  On the west coast, a Target security guard approached a man for shoplifting in an Oregon store.  The thief pointed his gun at the security guard and fled.

Target’s interim CEO, John Mulligan, said: “Bringing firearms to Target creates an environment that is at odds with the family-friendly shopping and work experience we strive to create.”

Paul- Being robbed and mugged isn’t exactly the family-friendly experience I want when I shop.


5 Gary D- Police are searching for two suspects who robbed a Chicago Transit Authority train at gunpoint.  In case you forgot, public transit is another no-carry zone for honest Illinois gun owners.  These latest robberies occurred around 4 in the afternoon on the Orange Line train between the Halsted and Roosevelt stop.  This is the train typically used by tourists who fly into Chicago’s Midway airport.  The robbers boarded the train and announced an armed robbery. They robbed several people of an iPad, two laptops, an iPhone, bank cards and $105 dollars in cash.  The thieves fled when the train arrived at the Roosevelt station. The CTA did not make a statement other than to say it’s a “police matter.”  I call it another gun free zone not working in Chicago

Paul- Maybe you can excuse a corporate executive for not understanding the nature of self-defense, but when the executive is paid that much, he should ask the experts.

6 Paul- Here is a store that should know about self-defense.. and about customer service.  Absolute Outdoors in New Kent, Virginia has a large sign in their front window that says “No loaded guns”.  Ed Levine from the Virginia Citizens Defense League asked the store how the policy was enforced.  The store’s owner had this shockingly rude answer.

“You need to add to your list of titles:
In desperate need of a life
life long member of the tiny dick club
Just plain stupid
Now that better describes you.

I’m usually there everyday so you should drop by and see me little man.”

Most guns stores simply ask you to keep your loaded firearm holstered, but not Absolute Outdoors in New Kent, Virginia.

7 Gary H- We have another advocate for gun-free zones in Missouri.  Missouri Governor Jay Nixon vetoed legislation that allowed specially trained teachers to carry concealed guns on school grounds.  Nixon said armed teachers jeopardize safety.  The Democrat governor waited until the legislative session closed before he issued his veto.  Now the Republican-led Legislature has to wait until the September session to attempt an override.

If trained teachers jeopardize students, do the Missouri Capitol Police jeopardize safety of the Governor and legislators too?

8 Rob- We don’t often think of a county as being a gun free zone, but I live in such a county in California.  San Joaquin County, California has similar restrictions with only a few hundred carry permits.  Those of us who have to live in gun-free California counties are told that the police will be there to protect us.  There is an important difference between protecting yourself and waiting for the police.  Last week that  difference mattered.

Three armed gunmen tried to rob a bank in San Joaquin county.  A deputy spotted the robbery in progress, but he was outside the bank and the citizens inside the bank were unarmed.  The robbers took three hostages.  Two of the hostages were badly injured as the robbers tried to escape, and one of the hostages was killed by gunfire.

The police will be there in minutes, and sometimes seconds are the difference between life and death.

Gary D- The robbery took place in Stockton, and the robbers were using AK pistols.  More failure of gun control.. just like Chicago.

9 Gary D- We reported on this story a few episodes ago, but the story of Shaneen Allen goes on.  Shaneen drove into New Jersey where she was stopped by a policeman for a lane change.  Unfortunately, she was carrying a firearm, and like an honest citizen, she informed the New Jersey officer who stopped her.  She was arrested since there is no reciprocity between New Jersey and Pennsylvania where Shaneen was licensed.  Shaneen is a single mom with two children and two jobs.  She works late and was robbed twice this year.  She took her firearms safety class and had her carry license for only a few weeks.

Think about this for a moment.  This young woman drove a car that is far more powerful than any handgun.  She used a drivers license issued by Pennsylvania and recognized all across the country.. and even recognized in New Jersey.  She is also recognized as a US citizen from a birth certificate issued in another town.

As I said, Allen had a license to carry a concealed weapon issued in Pennsylvania.  That licensing process is far more rigorous than getting her drivers license or her citizenship papers, particularly for a concealed carry license from Philadelphia where Allen lives.  New Jersey ignores that license and branded her a criminal.

I don’t know if you remember speed traps in the south and southwest where small towns would use law enforcement to fine and imprison strangers.  This is the same miscarriage of justice inflicted on an innocent woman.  Allen faces a felony weapons possession charge and faces three year in New Jersey prison.  This single mom was already jailed for 46 days before she could make bail.  She was about to accept a plea deal and serve the three years when she got a good lawyer.  This is bigotry against honest gun owners.

Show me the victim if she is a criminal.

There is a defense fund on Facebook, and I hope you will call the National Rifle Association and Gun Owners of America asking them to help her.  You are a member, aren’t you?

10 Paul- Anti-gun groups in Nevada want to put an initiative on the ballot to legislate universal firearms background checks.  The Las Vegas Review Journal came out against the measure in an editorial.  They said the gun control proponents must “overcome the strongest argument against expanded background checks: the fact that determined lawbreakers who want a gun will not respect the laws written to disarm them.”  The editorial then went on to cite the many examples of criminals either avoiding or passing background checks.

11 Gary H- Detroit has shown that armed citizens save lives.. and might save their city as well.  Detroit has a decreasing tax base and huge municipal debts.  Much of Detroit is abandoned, and the police can’t even patrol the ruins.  Despite those tough conditions, robberies are down 37 percent year to year.  Breakins are down 22 percent and there have been 30 percent fewer carjackings.  It isn’t that the Detroit economy is suddenly so much better.  What changed is that Detroit citizens are harder targets for criminals.

Police Chief James Craig said, “Criminals are getting the message that good Detroiters are armed and will use their weapon.  I don’t want to take away from the good work our investigators are doing, but I think part of the drop in crime, and robberies in particular, is because criminals are thinking twice that citizens could be armed.”

Paul- This week’s quote come from Lysander Spooner.  “A man is no less a slave because he is allowed to choose a new master once in a term of years.”

Hang on everybody, we’ll be right back after this
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Segment 3 Interviews

Interview with Jeff Knox, Director of the Firearms Coalition talking about universal background checks.  Red/Green stripe is an old proposal.  A green “G” is a known good guy.  There are a few obvious questions.  Who pays?  Will any period of review, say 5 years, satisfy the gun grabbers?

Segment 4 DGUs
1 Gary H- It is good to have friends with guns, even if they are strangers.  Donald Sacco was at an Orange County, Florida bus stop.  That is where he was attacked and robbed by Thomas Thorpe.  Thorpe Stabbed Sacco in the hand, leg and abdomen.  A passing motorist saw the attack and stopped his car.  The motorist drew his firearm and held Thorpe at gunpoint while other witnesses helped the wounded Sacco.  Thorpe was taken into custody by deputies and charged with attempted first-degree murder, aggravated battery with a deadly weapon, robbery and carrying a concealed weapon.  The victim was transported to the hospital in stable condition.

2 Rob-  With friends like this, it is time to change occupations.  A homeowner in a North Houston suburb went for his shotgun when three armed men broke into his home.  One of the thieves grabbed the shotgun and the two wrestled for control of the long gun.   That is when the thief accidentally fired his handgun and struck another thief.  The wounded thief was captured by deputies and transported to the hospital.  The two other thieves escaped.

Distance is your friend in a fight.  Keep your firearms close and your enemies far away.

I’m not much of a long-gun guy yet.  Is it true that the only use of your handgun is to fight your way to your long gun?

3 Paul –

This article was e-mailed into Guns Save Lives.

A woman in Gainsville, Texas confronted a man who wandered into her yard.  She thought the intruder was high on drugs because of the way he acted when she repeatedly asked him to leave.  At that point the intruder threw his hat on the ground, and came at her. The homeowner’s 13 year old boy had his Ruger 10/22 in hand, but did not have to fire a shot.  The intruder turned and ran at the sight of the firearm.  The homeowner’s 15 year old daughter called 911, but it took the police an additional 8 minutes to arrive.

This incident is typical of most defensive gun uses.  You only call the police after the threat is apparent.  The sight of a firearm stops most attackers.  The police arrive to take a report after the event is over.

Long guns are better than nothing.

4 Gary D- Two teenagers — a 15-year-old and a 17-year-old — tried to steal Victoria Davison’s car last month while she was in it, “I want the keys, car, everything,” commanded one of the teens.  Davison hesitated, prompting one teen to tell the other, “Go get the cannon” — a reference to his gun. But Davison had a “cannon” of her own and pulled it out of her gym bag. She shot the 15-year-old. “I shot the one that was in front of me. The one in the back of me, he said a curse word, and then he looked at his friend, and then he ran off while his friend was on the ground,” Police are investigating what may be “dozens” of carjackings and robberies tied to the teens. The wounded 15 year-old is also connected to a violent shooting where he shot a 43-year-old man in the face following an attempted carjacking.

I’m sorry everybody but I am a trainer and I tend to see teaching moments. She says in the interview that she had the gun in a bag and struggled to get the zipper open and the gun out. Another reason to if at all possible on-body carry if you can.

Victoria Davison interview

Teens accused in several carjackings seen together at Children’s hospital

5 Gary H-  A guest at the Grand Hyatt Hotel on the river walk in San Antonio, Texas had to use deadly force to defend himself and a woman when a mentally ill man threatened and then charged the pair. Torres went to the sixth floor of the hotel at 1 p.m. and started breaking lights in the hallway, according to police. He started to bang on a door, and when a witness opened it, Torres said he was “looking for someone to kill,” police said.

The witness slammed the door, so Torres banged on another one, police said.

The man inside of that room waited a moment to open the door, and when he did, Torres charged him. The hotel guest drew a concealed handgun, fired one shot, and struck Torres in the chest, stopping him just outside of the door.

No charges have been filed or are currently expected in the case.

Torres’ family says the man was suffering from an unidentified mental illness.

Gary – Teaching moment – If a stranger is pounding on your door, don’t open it.

6 Rob -Two homeless Oregon men thought someone reported them to the Bureau of Land Management as trespassers, so they went to the man’s home armed with a baseball bat and took turns beating him.  The beating caused extensive head, face and back injuries. In an attempt to escape after the attack, the victim grabbed a shotgun from his home and fired two rounds into the air. The suspects fled and called police to report that they had been shot at. They were later arrested and charged with assault.

Gary D- I guess that is the Joe Biden defense.

This one was sent in by Greg in Bremmerton,

From the NBCLosAngeles.com site.
A market robber is believed to have accidentally killed his accomplice during a fight with the owner of the El Sereno store they were robbing Friday, the Los Angeles Police Department said.
A 21-year-old man allegedly shot a 35-year-old man at the market at 11:15 a.m., according to police.
“There was an altercation with the store owner, who tried to take the rifle away,” LAPD officer Nuria Vanegas said.
The man who was shot was wielding a machete, police said.
The men’s names were not immediately released.
The store owner was uninjured.

Paul- We have the links to each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com if you want to share them with a friend.

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Segment 5 Show close

Listener e-mail discussion

Gary H- Email #1 From Ken in Arizona
I thought you’d like to know that Target’s “no guns allowed” policy is actually working! I just bought a new cell phone, and 2 new tablet computers, and a few accessories to go along with them. And not once did I ever consider going into Target to shop. Their policy worked. It kept me and my gun out. Apparently, smarter people than I are making good decisions after all.
Who says a “gun-free zone” doesn’t work.
Ken in AZ

Gary D- We got a message from John Willett of the Bold Departure podcast
Hi, What’s up guys? I was just listening to the episode with Russell Smith’s proposal for firearms purchases. Frankly, moving to combine photo ID and ability to purchase a firearm is a huge step in the wrong direction. I will add that we shouldn’t generate proposals based on the worst state’s laws. I have seen a proposal that makes a lot of sense. Rather than using the failed paradigm of relying on laws that prohibit activity, we utilize technology and an incentive for folks to conduct their own background check prior to a sale via a website that performs the same function as NICS does now. The website gives them a code that is good when combined with info from their existing ID for firearm purchases for a predetermined amount of time. The incentive is that the seller of the firearm would keep documentation of the sale with the code and that would provide them legal immunity against criminal action related to the sale.

Paul- The Polite Society download app is out on Amazon for Android and the I-phone app is in I-tunes and it is called Podcast Box.  They are located by our old name, Politics and guns.  Hot links are in our show notes.

Rob- Also please check out Kathy Jackson’s Cornered Cat training classes. Go to Cornered Cat dot com for more classes and details.

Gary H- Look at the shooters club by Bob Mayne and Ben Branam.  For $75.00 a year, $6.25 a month, you get 24/7 access to some fantastic training and audio podcasts that you can’t get anywhere else.  Subscribing from the link in our show notes helps Bob and Ben as well as helps us here at the Polite Society Podcast.

Join your local civil rights group like the New Jersey Second Amendment Society, Arizona Citizens Defense League, Gun Owners of California, Commonwealth Second Amendment,  Connecticut Citizens Defense League, Florida Carry, Georgia Carry, Georgia Gun Owners, Grass Roots North Carolina, Illinois Carry, Maryland Shall Issue,  Michigan Gun Owners , Michigan Open Carry, and  Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners.

There are Minnesota Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance,  Nebraska Firearms Owners Association,   Citizens for a Safer New Jersey,New York State Rifle & Pistol Association,  Open Carry Texas, Texas Firearms Freedom, Texas State Rifle Association. Tennessee Firearms Association, Virginia Citizens Defense League, Virginia Open Carry,  West Virginia Citizens Defense League, wisconsingunowners.org, and Wyoming Gun Owners.
For our Canadian listeners, and their supporters, join the Canadian Shooting Sports Association and the Canadian National Firearms Association.  If YOUR state or local organization isn’t read each episode, then send us an email and we’ll add them!

Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast. Until the ( mid-week / weekend ) show…
Rob: stay safe,
Gary H: be aware,
Gary D: and we’ll see you down the road.

Episode 64 – Presidential Debate Fever and Ken Kowalski

In this episode Raquel and Anthony Mele talk about the President’s less than truthful performance in the debate this past Wednesday. Paul talks about Obama now showing his gun grabbing and anti gun rights ways, and Ken Kowalski of the Rimfire Podcast joins Toby and Paul for the Guns and Gear segment.

Links from Raquel’s segment



President Obama discusses attack in Benghazi Libya

Links from news segment