Episode 409 – Sean Maloney and Laura Carno

Full Episode Download: http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/409.mp3

1- Open and Personal News Segment

2- Training and Discussion segment

3- News Segment 1

4- Interview Segment 1: Sean Maloney

5- Interview Segment 2: Laura Carno

6- DGU Segment:

7- Email and Show Close:

1- Introduction

Paul: Welcome to the polite society podcast powered by the Firearms Policy Coalition recorded on Sunday, May 14, 2017.  I’m Paul Lathrop.

Rob: I’m Rob Morse and on tonight’s show we will talk with Laura Carno about training school staff in Colorado to be first responders.

John: I’m John Richardson, and we’ll talk with Sean Maloney from second call defense.

Rachel: I’m Rachel Malone, and in one of our DGU’s we’ll hear how a Houston man successfully defended himself against 3 attackers

Rob: So climb aboard,

Rachel: strap in,

John : and hang on!

Paul:  episode 409 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.

Show intro music.


Personal news from each participant (when you are done with your segment please ask the next person what has been up with them)


Rob- Carried every day.  Did some dry practice with a SIRT pistol.  New ammo arrived for a training class.  I’ve also been thinking about how we train and how we teach.  We’ll talk about that in our e-mail segment.  I’ve also been thinking about Gary’s mom, but I haven’t written that article yet.  I also put out a new episode of Self-Defense Gun Stories.


John – I want to apologize to our listeners for missing our last show. I had just a horrible internet connection. Listening to the others was like being in some hallucinogenic Techo event. Now to current events. I’m a bit sore as we have been cleaning out what had been my Mom’s house as – ta da – I have a buyer for it. My Mom passed away 9 years ago so it’s time! I am still finding treasures including a signed promotion letter to my Mom from the FBI’s J. Edgar Hoover. As to gun news, I was pocket carrying my Ruger LCP II the whole time. It’s very convenient.



Bought a gun….from John

Saw some political friends in a non-political setting….it was good

Working on a knife bill…..since everything else I cared about is dead

Mostly doing music work


Paul/Susan Range day on Saturday S&W Sigma

Bob and Ben


Promo about upcoming training classes here.



(June 9-11 2017). MAG-30. Florence, TX

(June 24, 25th 2017).  Beyond Concealed Carry Enhanced.  9am -5pm both days. Richmond, IL

(July 8, 2017) Defensive Rifle Skills for the Armed Citizen https://squareup.com/store/concealedcarryassociates

(August 10-13, 2017). MAG-40. Sioux Falls, SD

(August 26 & 27, 2017). Beyond Concealed Carry Enhanced. Sioux Falls, SD

(Saturday, February 3, 2018) Law of Self Defense LEVEL 1 Class: South Dakota

(Saturday, February 4, 2018) Law of Self Defense LEVEL 2 Class: South Dakota


John – Promo for PSP patches – send orders john@ad7.8f3.myftpupload.com. $10 for 1, $18 for 2 PPD.



Bob Owens Suicide- Suicide is typically a result of depression.  Most of us never consider if we should kill ourselves.  We don’t ask if we should mark or cut ourselves.  We don’t ask because the question never occurs to us.  If you have asked yourself these questions, then please go get help.  What you’re doing in asking that question isn’t normal.  It isn’t healthy.  You are suffering from an illness.  You’re depressed.  It is a disease, not a character flaw.  You don’t need sympathy or to think happy thoughts or take a homeopathic remedy.  You need a doctor.  You need help now.


One of the largest contributors to periods of depression is lack of sleep.  So take a driven individual working on an important project.  They work too hard.  Drink lots of coffee.  Sleep too little, and then start a downward spiral of sleep deprivation and depression.


National Suicide Prevention Lifeline 1-800-273-8255


Bob Owens Family & College Fund





2- News 1

San Francisco insanity

In typical California fashion, the City of San Francisco uses every measure at its disposal to limit the freedoms of law abiding citizens.  In a recent Breitbart article, AWR Hawkins exposed the folly of the elitist politicians who perpetually occupy City Hall.


In 2013 the city enacted a high capacity unquote magazine ban.  At the time, Larry Barsetti of the police union was quoted as saying, “All you’re doing is impacting honest law-abiding citizens of San Francisco; the bad guys aren’t going to obey this law; they’re not supposed to be carrying in the first place.”  


Recently published crime statistics appear to support Mr. Barsetti’s prediction.  Numerous improvements were noted in crime rates within the city.  Crimes against property fell by a staggering 11 percent from 2015 to 2016.  Incidents of reported thefts, arson, vehicle theft and burglaries also decreased on a year-by-year basis.


Crimes in which firearms were involved, however, exploded during the same time period.  The murder rate increased by 15 percent and gunshot victims increased by 27 percent!  Surely the well-meaning public servants of The City by the Bay have not yet concocted the perfect mixture of rights restrictions to serve their stated purpose.


Although we cannot, at this time, attribute any of this increase directly to magazine restrictions, there is a comparison that can be made.  A city on the other side of the country, Baltimore, Maryland, has similar gun controls in place.  They also enacted a high capacity magazine ban in 2013.  Since then, Charm City has endured higher murder rates than before the ban.  Criminal use of such magazines has increased since the ban took effect.  In fact, the carnage has risen to such a level that Baltimore’s mayor has called for the Feds to intervene.


Doing the same thing over and over while expecting different results is often coined as a measure of insanity.  On this basis, politicians promoting gun control measures should be considered for luxurious vacations at their local funny farm.


John –


Kitchen Table FFLs for Everyone

Unless you are employed by an American news organization, you probably know that a Federal Firearms License (FFL) is required in order to legally deal in guns.  We should probably give them a break since the Gun Control Act has only been in effect since 1968.


Many motivated collectors applied for, and received, FFLs in order to pursue their legal hobbies in an above-board manner.  These individuals have often been referred to as “Kitchen Table FFLs.”  


If you are relatively new to the gun community you may not have heard of this phenomenon.    That is because a man by the name of Josh Sugarmann of the Violence Policy Center.  He thought that these collectors posed such a threat to public safety that they must lose their licences.  So, Mr. Sugarmann set out on a mission of petitioning the Clinton Administration to remedy the situation.  Of course, the Administration complied.  Since then only those selling firearms for profit are eligible for a FFL.  


Now it is time for the funny part.  Mr. Sugarmann applied for and received a Federal Firearms Licence for the Violence Policy Center as a non-profit.  His application stated that he was a “firearms expert in design and manufacture.”  His given purpose for the FFL was for the “examination and publication of written material” about firearms.  The application also specifically mentions, “no firearms or ammunition will be sold.”


So which is it then?  Is it or is it not possible to have an FFL for purposes other than business profits?  It appears that the ATF is not even sure.  The folks at LonelyMachines filed a Freedom of Information Request regarding this matter.  When it was determined that the VPC does hold a non-profit FFL, they inquired of the ATF as to the steps one must go through in order to obtain a similar licence.  At first the ATF stated that it was not possible.  When it was pointed out that Mr. Sugarmann had such a license, they finally said that one must put “N/A” to answer the question related to making a profit.  Then a sheet of paper is attached to explain the nonprofit business.  


Now we all can file for FFLs!  Isn’t it awesome that the man who took away the rights of so many people also gave us the method by which those rights can be taken back?  


John – I always thought Emily Miller should have had Josh Sugarmann handle her FFL transfer.

Laws for them, but not for us.

Paul – I wonder if I can get an ffl for the Polite Society Podcast?


Constitutional carry for knives in Montana

Montana law treated knives with a blade of more than 4 inches the same as firearms in their concealed carry statute. It is legal to carry concealed weapons in most of Montana, without a permit, except inside city limits.  The new law only applied to people in incorporated towns and cities.


This year, 2017, Governor Bullock is term limited, and cannot run again. He vetoed the proposed Constitutional Carry bill for the third time.  But Governor Bullock allowed HB 251 to become law.  HB 251 is simple. It removes all weapons from the concealed carry law except firearms.  The votes for the bill were 70-29 in the House and 38 to 11 in the Senate. That is more than enough to override a veto from the Governor.


In Montana, if the governor does not sign or veto a bill, within 10 days after it is delivered to him, it becomes law.  Constitutional Carry for knives became law on April 21, 2017.  It goes into effect on 1 October, 2017.


Rob- Wish we had that in Louisiana.


Stacy Washington-

This next news column is a tribute to our listeners.  We’re read the hit-pieces from liberal media criticizing and slandering honest gun owners.  We’ve been called ammo-sexuals, trigger trash and child-killers.  We’ve heard the NRA compared to ISIS.  What is relatively new, is that articulate voices have spoken in opposition to these slanders..and then been fired from the media outlets because of their opinion.


The self-styled “progressive free press” is increasingly intolerant of views that don’t match their liberal talking points.  The most recent example was the indefinite suspension of Stacy Washington, a radio and print journalists from Saint Louis.  Stacy used to write for the Saint Louis Post Dispatch.  In an edited opinion column, Stacy criticized professional journalists who didn’t maintain journalistic standards when they were writing about gun owners and human rights organizations like the NRA.  She was fired precisely because she detailed the bias of her editors.


Only 7 percent of journalists describe themselves as republican or conservative.  We should not expect the liberal news organizations like the Saint Louis Post Dispatch, New York Times, Huffington post and Buzzfeed to support our opinions.  We should not expect fair reporting.  We should expect new media outlets to fill the information void left as these former news organizations unveil their propaganda.


Comment- Breitbart News didn’t exist 10 years ago.  Today they are the leading media outlet with more facebook and twitter reposts than the large liberal papers.


Comment- Colion Noir didn’t make videos ten years ago.  Stacy Washington didn’t have her own radio show ten years ago.  Dana Loesch had just started her blog at that point.  The only radio show that supported gun owners was Gun Talk.  Armed American Radio and Lock and Load Radio wouldn’t start for a few years.  The media universe is changing, and the old style outlets don’t like it.


Comment- We didn’t have podcasts delivered to your phone 10 years ago.  Stacy still has her blog and her radio show “Stacy on the Right”. I wonder who will pick up and syndicate her columns.


Rachel- technology has changed communication…that also changes activism


Rob- you live stream on FB.


Doubling down in California

California Assemblyman Kevin McCarty is pushing legislation to take away school administrators’ power to allow teachers with a Carry Concealed Weapon license (CCW) to be armed in classrooms for self-defense. McCarty’s bill is snaking its way through the legislative process. Two years ago, California passed a bill saying a concealed carry permit holder could not carry on any school campus unless they had the authorization of the school administrator. Well, out of the one thousand school districts in California, five of them decided to allow concealed permit holders to carry on their campuses. That upset the liberal california legislature and their liberal anti-gun donors.  Assemblyman McCarty  wants to take away the authority of local school boards to allow CCW holders to carry on their campuses.  Being a state law, there is no ability to sue the state when your child is attacked in public school.


Comment- I’m not sure if this new law would apply to private schools in California.


Rob- You might remember the five year old girl who picked up a stick and was playing with it in her school in North Carolina.  Her name is Caitlin.  She and another group of girls were playing “kings and queens” and Caitlin was pretending that she was guarding the palace with a gun.  Her father is a soldier in the US army.  Caitlin was suspended from kindergarten because of the school’s “zero-tolerance” policy.  Caitlin is now home schooled..because her parents have a zero-tolerance policy of their own.  I know that many people home school in California.


Gun Quotes- The world is filled with violence. Because criminals carry guns, we decent law-abiding citizens should also have guns. Otherwise they will win and the decent people will lose. James Earl Jones


Hang on everybody, we’ll be back with our guests Laura Carno and Sean Maloney.



3- Interview 1- Laura Carno, FASTER training in Colorado

School will be out for the summer recess in a few weeks.  Some Colorado teachers will be taking some continuing education in armed defense and medical first response.  Some Colorado school districts already had armed staff for years now.  Starting this summer, they will also have world class defensive training that was developed in Ohio in the FASTER program.  Coloradans for civil liberties is bringing that training to their state.  To tell us about that, we we have Laura Carno with us.


Keeping kids safe in a broken world.


Colorado Sheriffs can certify teachers.  Do you have some sheriff’s representatives auditing the courses?


Press release from Coloradans for Civil Liberties

When you drop your kids off for school in the morning, or wave goodbye to them at the bus stop, do you ever say a little prayer for their safety? Ask yourself this: Are your kids as safe as they can possibly be at school, or do you just pretend they are to get through the day?

Some parents can say, “Yes! My kids are safe!” because they know that trained medical and armed first responders are ready to protect their children in school. But, not every parent can say that.

Last year, I attended training for these armed first responders in Ohio. It’s called FASTER training which stands for Faculty / Administrator Safety Training and Emergency Response. Essentially, it is training for school staff who volunteer to put their bodies between bullets and your kids — not their own kids— other people’s kids. Ohio has trained almost 900 people over the past 5 years. These 900 school staff members are nothing short of heroes in my book.

When I got back from FASTER training in Ohio, I vowed to bring this life-saving training to Colorado. Colorado kids deserve the same level of protection as Ohio’s kids!

I wrote an article about how the experience changed my life. Please read the whole thing.

Now, just 10 months later, we have our first Colorado FASTER class scheduled in June. We are offering this class through an organization I recently co-founded, Coloradans for Civil Liberties, in partnership with Independence Institute.

The Ohio training team is traveling to Colorado to train our Colorado training team, who will then conduct the ongoing FASTER Colorado classes.

FASTER training is for school staff who already have their Concealed Handgun Permit (CHP), and who have the permission of their school or charter board, or are on their way to having permission. We can also help school and charter boards with the process of granting permission.

I’m not asking for money, I’m asking for your help to save our children by identifying Colorado school staff members — those who have what it takes to volunteer to be those trained medical and armed first responders in their schools.

Now that we have our first class dates set in June, we want to make sure that first class is filled to capacity, and that we have waiting lists for our next classes.

Whether you are inside or outside of Colorado, do you know people in Colorado who are:

  • School staff members – teachers, administrators, janitors, etc. who would volunteer to save your children’s lives
  • School Board and Charter Board members – they are legally able to approve armed first responders in their schools.
  • School Board and Charter Board members who have already approved school staff members – this life-saving training is for their staff too.
  • Parents of children in Colorado schools – parents should demand that their kids are as safe as possible in schools, by being protected by FASTER trained school personnel.

Send this email to them. Ask them to read the article I wrote late year. Then ask them to go to FasterColorado.com and send me an email at CO2ALiberties@gmail.com. I want to hear from them.

The tuition is $1,000 for a 3-day class for those schools and districts who have the training budget for a class like FASTER. We also have scholarships available. We never want anyone to miss out on FASTER training due to the budget constraints of their school or district.

One thing we know about school shootings is that they will happen again. If it does happen at your school, will you be prepared?


4- Interview 2

Paloma Capanna-  Do you give up your rights when you own a gun?

Defending gun owners from breach of medical information and release of information kept on federal forms we’re required to submit when we buy a gun.


Decision from the District Ct can be found here. The case is now on appeal to the 2nd Circuit Ct of Appeals.


?- Doesn’t this conflict with another Fed law – HIPAA


Politicians get a free pass.


See you in Dallas!



5- DGUs  (at beginning) These discussions are NOT legal advice. Some of us are trainers, but this is not formal training and YOU NEED formal training. The Defensive Gun Use segment is intended as information, NOT as training. As always the opinions of the hosts are only their own opinions and not those of any sponsors or other affiliations.


Concealed Carrier stops possible Mass Shooting

On a recent Thursday evening, Cesar Perez was busy doing his job as the manager of the Zona Caliente Sports Bar and Grill in Arlington Texas.  He thought it was going to be a normal Thursday night.  At about 6 PM, all that changed.  James Jones walked into the bar and started yelling incoherently.  Perez tried to calm the man down.  


Meanwhile, a customer, who was also a concealed carrier, was sitting at the bar with this wife.  He was able to see or hear the disturbance between Perez and Jones going on.  During the course of their “argument” Jones pulled out a handgun and shot Perez.  Perez died at the scene.  The customer told his wife to get down on the ground and pulled his concealed gun.  He fired one shot, striking Jones in the back.  Jones thought the shot came from the front door and returned fire.  Luckily he did not shoot anyone else.  Jones also died at the scene.


Police found a second fully loaded semi-automatic on Jones and two knives.  The second firearm had the serial number filed off.  While Jones will never tell them what his intent was, he was certainly ready to shoot more than just Perez.  


Without the quick and decisive action of the Good Samaritan concealed carrier, more Jones could have taken the life of more patrons.


Since Zona Caliente makes the majority of its revenue from food, concealed carry was permitted and the Good Guy with a gun will not be facing any charges.


The only thing that defeats a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.  This good guy kept his situational awareness and knew that he was possibly the only person standing between Jones’ one victim becoming a major news story.  He got his loved one to a safe place and delivered 1 well placed shot which ended the situation.  



Two Drive By Shooters Dead, 1 Intended Victim Untouched

Last weekend in North Houston, a homeowner was standing outside his home at 2:15 AM.  Three men in a Nissan sedan drove by with the intention of shooting him.  Unlucky for them was the fact that he possesses a concealed handgun license.  He returned fire.  The car crashed into another vehicle and the three men got out and continued the fight.  


The homeowner proved to be a better shot than the three.  After 40 shots fired, the three were all suffering from gunshot wounds and the homeowner was unharmed.  One was pronounced dead at the scene, one tried to flee but was apprehended and died at the hospital and the third was taken into custody at the scene and was being treated from his wounds.


The homeowner was determined to have acted in self defense.  Investigators had been to the same house the day before for a report of attempted arson.


There are questions which remain about this incident.  Why was this the second happening at this address in a couple of days?  

Rob- This being Houston, the third guy will be out of jail and back on the street in a week.

Rachel- no permit was necessary

Rob- low-light and shooting at moving targets made this a tough encounter.

Rob- confidence.


Domino’s Pizza Driver gets in trouble

It looks like Texas has been busy with DGU’s for the last week or so.  For this story, we stay in Texas and move back up to the Dallas area.


Domino’s Pizza driver, David Gerber, has had trouble coming at him on multiple occasions over the last week.  On May 6, he was given a deliver to make in Mesquite Texas.  It turned out the delivery was to a vacant house and also part of an ambush robbery.  Two individuals confronted Gerber and attempted to rob him.  One of the young thugs was armed with a handgun and fired at Gerber.  He was also armed and fired back at his assailants.


The two suspects then fled.  One 16 year old was found a short distance away with a gunshot wound.  He later expired from that injury.  His accomplice, also 16, was found and placed under arrest for aggravated robbery.


It was originally reported that Gerber did not have a handgun license which could have resulted in a charge of unlawfully carrying a weapon but later that was changed to the fact that he did have a concealed carry permit for the State of Arizona which is recognized by Texas.


Domino’s has suspended Gerber pending the investigation into the shooting.  Mesquite Police have referred the matter to the Dallas County grand jury to determine if charges are warranted.


This type of ambush robbery has to be a constant worry of any delivery driver and in particular those like pizza drivers who deal in cash.  We have reported that some companies such as Uber have a no guns policy.  It appears that Domino’s does not have such a policy and the only thing standing in the way of this driver getting his job back is the grand jury determining this was a good shoot.


Paul –

We post each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com  Please take a minute and share them with a friend.



6- E-mail, blog notes, and show close


Listener feedback

Onair@ad7.8f3.myftpupload.com  or call or text 605-215-1438

Text message #1


Evening crew,


A friend and I were going back and forth about which device would be best for home defense.

He says laser, I say a tac light. I’m not sure how much training he has had but I have a few classes under my belt. One of the things one of my instructors said was that with a light you can light up the threat with a quick on off or strobe method to blind them. Move, then yell your commands. My friend just says why do all that when I can just put my laser on them. Rolling my eyes, his comments make me think he lacks training. Anyway I’d love to know what’s you guys opinion. Keep up the good work. #Norecipes




Tac light vs Laser part 2. I forgot to mention that my instructor is retired SWAT. So I’d listen to him before taking advice from My know it all friend Barney Fife.


Paul – Combination light/laser



Are there any plans to get POGO made on a patch? That would be cool to have on a range bag.


How bout that low turn out at the NRAAM by Mom’s demand action? I love it when Bloomberg bleeds green, what a waste. Lol

You would think someone with his net worth would have better things to do then harassing law abiding citizens. Until next time




Rob- the demanding momies were flying in their supporters to the NRA AM.

John – Patch – maybe;

Rachel- so, JP, if you want that POGO patch, just get all the current PSP patches sold quickly!


JOHN – Text message #2


Hey guys this is kris from Nashville in episode 406 y’all were talking about how you keep your guns while you sleep. My wife and I do not have kids so I keep mine in a Safariland ALS holster on a police duty belt with double mag pouch and a Surefire flashlight. What do y’all think about this?



ROB- Email #1

Alan of Henryetta, Oklahoma wrote in.


Dear Polite Society Folks,

In episode 407, Rob Morse mentioned that he had finished reading Dustin Solomon’s book, Building Shooters.  I would be interested in hearing how he has changed his training and/or teaching methods.


I am not a professional firearms instructor. If I were, and implemented the principles in the book to make sure my students actually learned something, I would quit and find another job. It would be impossible to make a living following an actual brain-based learning curriculum. Fortunately, I only teach individuals or very small groups from time to time. Since I and my students are not on a strict time table, I would limit the amount of material covered and limit instruction time to one hour, three times a week and follow the model Solomon lays out.


One of the most important training concepts mentioned in the book is that of interleaved or chaotic training. Some training programs use some of these principles. I took Rob Pincus’ Combat Focused Shooting course a few years ago. His figure 8 drill comes close, but there are still a lot of limitations on a live fire range.


Training by myself, or with a partner in my own outside space using the SIRT pistol has a lot of advantages such as freedom of movement and different light levels.  These are only a couple of things that I do, some previously known, some new and some reinforced from the material in the book.

Your turn,




Hi, Alan.

Thank you for writing in.  You are right.  Our current style of firearms training is designed to make money for the instructor, not to teach the student.  We charge more for a 10 hour course than for a one hour course.  In fact, the student doesn’t learn much more from the longer course.  As students, we may walk away inspired, but not with new skills.


I went back and proved it to myself.  I’ve attended classes where I wrote down the material they covered.  I didn’t have those skills.  I might develop them through self-study, but the course did not teach them to me.  As an instructor, I’ve failed my students when the majority of them can’t apply the class material I present.  It isn’t their fault.  It is mine.  Given the way I’m teaching, selling a defective product.  That was the core of what I took away from Solomon’s book.


Let me bring new listeners up to speed.  Dustin Solomon’s conclusion is that we can only learn so much at a time.  Instructors in other fields recognized this a long time ago.  Think about the apprentice system where the student receives a few minutes of instruction every day.  Also consider the music teacher model and the local self-defense dojo model where the students get a weekly lesson.  A music teacher shows you what to do, but you have to practice at home to learn the skills.  We can do that with firearms instruction, and I find the change inspiring.  


I looked at the skills we need for self-defense, and I broke them down into the categories we can learn at the same time.  That means we can teach all the information, but not at the same time.  It turns out we can learn fine motor skills AND gross motor skills in the same lesson.  What we can’t do is learn a bunch of fine motor skills at the same time because the memories compete and interfere. For example, if I try to teach grip, trigger manipulation, and sight alignment in the same lesson, then I’m leaving it up to the student as to which skill, if any, the student actually learns.  That could be why we have to correct a student’s grip lesson after lesson.


Here is the good news.  I can teach grip and stance at the same time, since one is a fine motor skill and the other is a gross motor skill involving the lower body.  Planned instruction becomes a Chinese menu selection.  Take one fine motor skill from column A, one gross motor from column B, and one self-defense concept from column C.


As Allen said in a personal e-mail, the two day and four day classes are designed so institutional organizations can say their staff was (quote) trained (close quote.)


Rachel- I am so glad I have intelligent, articulate friends like you, Rob. It frustrates me that I can’t always make sure students are able to effectively apply instruction from an intensive course. I wish I could teach firearms like I teach music: weekly private lessons, with private practice mandated in between. I hope one day I will.  I look forward to continuing conversations with you, Rob.


Paul: Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?


Rob- I know you like to teach.  I wonder when you’ll start your own firearms instruction business.


Rob- I wrote a three part series on how our right to bear arms is infringed every day.  After hearing Donald J. Trump speak at the NRA, I wanted him to do more.  I wrote another article called “Talk is Cheap, President Trump”   I listed the things the President could do to protect our rights, actions that don’t depend on congressional approval.  That and more is posted at Clash Daily, at Ammoland and at my blog, slow facts dot wordpress dot com.

Paul –

John, tell us what’s new at your blog no lawyers only guns and money


John- After our friend Bob Owens of BearingArms.com committed suicide I fully expected nasty stuff coming from the gun prohibitionists and I wasn’t disappointed. What did disappoint me was a Facebook post by Charles Nichols of California Right to Carry. He is an embarrassment to the gun rights movement in general and to the open carry movement in particular. With people like him, who needs enemies.


That and more is at only guns and money dot blogspot dot com.

Paul – more than 40 people and comments were deleted and blocked


We would like to thank Charlie Foxtrot for writing up show notes for us. Even though you don’t hear him on the air he is certainly part of what you do hear. Look at his blog at not one more gun law dot blogspot dot com


Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast.  I’d like to thank (Guests) for joining us today.  So for Charlie Foxtrot,  Jae, Dana, Douglas, Gary, John, Rachel, Susan, Craig, and Rob,

(Paul, stop talking now)


Rob: Until the next time…

Gary: stay safe,

Rachel: be aware,

John: and we’ll see you down the road.


(after show close) How could we have made this episode better?


(DO NOT READ)Look at the shooters club by Bob Mayne and Ben Branam.  For $75.00 a year, $6.25 a month, you get 24/7 access to some fantastic training and audio podcasts that you can’t get anywhere else.  Subscribing from the link in our show notes helps Bob and Ben as well as helps us here at the Polite Society Podcast.


(DO NOT READ)Join your local civil rights group like the New Jersey Second Amendment Society, Arizona Citizens Defense League, Gun Owners of California, Commonwealth Second Amendment,  Connecticut Citizens Defense League, Florida Carry, Georgia Carry, Georgia Gun Owners, Grass Roots North Carolina, Illinois Carry, Maryland Shall Issue,  Michigan Gun Owners , Michigan Open Carry, and  Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners.


There are Minnesota Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance,  Nebraska Firearms Owners Association,   Citizens for a Safer New Jersey, New York State Rifle & Pistol Association,  Palmetto Concealed Carry, Open Carry Texas, Texas Firearms Freedom, Texas State Rifle Association. Tennessee Firearms Association, Virginia Citizens Defense League, Virginia Open Carry,  West Virginia Citizens Defense League, wisconsingunowners.org, and Wyoming Gun Owners.


For our Canadian listeners, and their supporters, join the Canadian Shooting Sports Association and the Canadian National Firearms Association.  If YOUR state or local organization isn’t read each episode, then send us an email and we’ll add them!


(DO NOT READ)The Polite Society download app is out on Amazon for Android and the I-phone app is in I-tunes and it is called Podcast Box.  They are located by our old name, Politics and guns.  Hot links are in our show notes.


Episode 328 – Laura Carno and Jeff Street

Full Episode Download: http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/328.mp3

Open and Personal News Segment: http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/328-1.mp3

News Segment 1: http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/328-2.mp3

News Segment 2: http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/328-3.mp3

News Segment 3: http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/328-4.mp3

Interview Segment 1: Jeff Street: http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/328-5.mp3

Interview Segment 2: Laura Carno: http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/328-6.mp3

DGU Segment 1: http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/328-7.mp3

DGU Segment 2: http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/328-8.mp3

Email and Show Close: http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/328-9.mp3



“An armed society is a polite society.. and this is the Polite Society Podcast where we support and report on civilian self-defense.”

Paul: Welcome to the polite society podcast presented by the Firearms Policy Coalition recorded Sunday May 3 2015, I’m Paul Lathrop

Rob: I’m Rob Morse and on tonights show we talk with Laura Carno about her post, “no, I will not shut my pie hole”.

John: I’m John Richardson, and we’ll talk about the Baltimore riots.

Gary: I’m Gary Daugherty and in one of our DGU’s a homeowner uses a handgun to defend themselves after their home was burglarised for the second time in a week…  so climb aboard

Rob: strap in

John : and hang on!

Paul:  episode 328 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.

Show intro music.


Seg 1- Personal news from each participant


Gary- Waiting for my AR to arrive by mail.  Added lights to my safe.  I’m going to hear Sonal Shah speak.


John – I had a hearing exam on Monday. I have tinnitis or ring in the ears that is due to exposure to loud noise when I was younger. I did something stupid but that was common back then – I shot without hearing protection. Now I have both ringing in the ears and high frequency drop out. I’m sure there will come a time when I need hearing aids. In other firearm related personal news, I finally weighed the lightweight AR I built. Without optics and a backup rear sight, it comes in at 5 lb, 12 oz. With those attached, I’m still only at 6 lbs 2.7 oz. I just need to find time to try it at the range! I’m also gathering parts now to make a retro style AR. This AR building is addictive!


Rob- I was in Los Angeles earlier this week, so I dropped in and heard Alan Korwin speak.  Alan owns and runs Bloomfield press.  He wrote many books and has a great blog called page nine.  Doris started the group, Children of Jewish Holocaust Survivors and the group Jews can shoot.  Alan spoke about what to do after you’ve defended yourself.  That was interesting, and the audience was interesting.  Also, Doris gave me a great hat.  I shot IDPA and mentored another group of doctors for their first shots.  Someone brought a FN 5.7 and they let me shoot it.  It is loud, but doesn’t have much recoil.


Paul – RANT


I need to go off a bit here. I had a friend and dedicated fighter for our rights post a video to my wall asking if he knew who the person was that was in the video that he posted. The video was of a single person doing an “open carry” demonstration of the sidewalk in front of the federal courthouse in Sioux Falls. The video came in 2 parts and never showed the face of the person who recorded the video. I did not recognize the voice of the person and so I replied and said that I didn’t although the kid was a bit of a ummm jerk. I said worse on Facebook, but I keep the show very family friendly.


It turns out that I do know the person. They replied on Facebook and let’s just say that the butthurt was strong in that one.


Let me take just a minute here and let me let you know how I feel about open carry, although for many of you this may be a bit of going over well trodden ground I think that it is important.  Actually let me read a post I made to facebook and I will continue on after that.


I support your Second Amendment rights, I believe that you have the right to posses and peacefully use any weapon that you can afford. This includes everything from the 10-22 to the F-22. I also support your 1st Amendment rights to say whatever you feel, to worship whatever God you believe in and associate with whomever you chose to.

My hobby and part time side business ( Polite Society Podcast) relies and advocates heavily on both of those rights guarantees the Constitution offers.

However if you are one of those that are being a jerk about your 1st and 2nd Amendment rights, doing some of the myriad of things that hurt us. Things such as open carrying in a manner that causes public alarm; carrying a rifle in a place of business (some leniency given to those in Texas and other states where open carry of handguns isn’t allowed);, or making videos while egging police on just to hopefully make a “YouTube celebrity” out of yourself while using a fake name you are hurting us badly.

I use my real name both here on Facebook and on my show. I don’t hide behind some made up moniker. If you cannot put your real name to what you are doing, if you would not be proud to have your social media posts displayed to your parents, to your preacher, to your doctor or to your grandchildren (whether or not they agree with you) then PLEASE for the love of God DON’T post them!

A lot of people have “friended” me on Facebook because of the show. Thank you to all of you who have, even if I haven’t met you personally or interacted with you often. If you think that I might be referring to you in this post then it’s possible that I am. I beg of you to please look at what you are doing and think to yourself “Is what I am doing going to alarm someone who may be neutral to our fight and make them think that the other side may be right?” (end of FB post)


I support your right to open carry. I open carry my handgun while at home. I have participated in organized open carry walks. If done correctly open carry can be a powerful tool to help us. If done incorrectly it can be a tool for Bloomberg’s demanding mommies, CSGV (coalition to stop gun violence, and the Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence? )and others to point and say “look at the loonies that they have! Even worse, it can make the average citizen who votes, and is neutral to our side turn away from us.


While you are open carrying EVERYTHING that you do is magnified. If you are polite and respectful, if you are dressed well and well groomed, and if you inspire confidence in those around you that helps us.


If however you are a jerk to those that you interact with, if you are untidy or unkempt, or most importantly if you instil fear you are doing more damage than demanding mommies or the brady bunch ever has.


Again I ask, if your actions could be seen to intimidate PLEASE think twice about doing them.


Rob- We are ambassadors.  Are you a good ambassador who will appeal to the average citizen?



Seg 2- News


Paul- Leading the news we have conflicting statements from Baltimore Mayor Stephanie Rawlings-Blake.


The mayor said the following in a press conference when things started to get ugly in her city. (Audio clip #1)


After getting some criticism she then decided that she never actually said that at all, and that we were just twisting her words. (audio clip #2)


-Paul- this is classic Progressivism. She is going on as if nothing ever happened. Making it up as she goes along. I would suggest Mayor Rawlings-Blake that you mark the block that your personal residence is on as a place set aside as room to destroy That sounds like a better balance to me than places where hard working people are trying to make a living.


We are going to take a quick side trip here. while perusing Facebook one evening I came across a video that puts the Police violence thing in perspective. Here is some audio. (Audio clip #3)


-Paul-  A couple of things about this caught my attention. First that they looked not just at deaths but at all charges of excessive force by officers, Second that they broke things down by contact.

I am one that doesn’t respond well to percentages and so did some of my own math on the figures they presented. If 2000 people are contacted in one form or another by police 1 person will file an excessive force complaint. Of all the complaints only 8 percent had merit, so if police were to contact 25000 people on average only 1 complaint of excessive force would have any merit. That is a DAMN good track record.


Rob- there are 20 gang murders for every gun related homicide that involves a policeman.  The vast majority of the police involved shootings are ruled to be justified by self-defense.  That puts violence into perspective.


Rob-  Taxes and regulations in Baltimore drove businesses out of the city.  Unemployment jumped.  Addiction rose to record levels.  Fatherlessness rose as young men could not find jobs and start families.  People who still had jobs left Baltimore because of increasing crime.  The price and quality of housing crashed, just as it has in Detroit.  While all of this was happening, the city, state and federal governments poured extraordinary amounts of money into housing projects and schools.  Now a black drug addict whose mother was a drug addict was injured by a mostly black police force controlled by black politicians.  People rioted and burned stores owned by koreans. Government policies killed Baltimore.. and now they are looking for someone to blame.  The politicians will blame racism.. and propose the police wear body cameras.


Let’s also ask every elected official to wear body cameras too.. with another camera placed in their office.  That is leading by example.  Anything else is politics as usual.





Waiting periods

There are several myths about gun control.  The first is that waiting periods save lives.  A waiting period is the delay between purchasing a firearm and taking possession of it,.  It has been called a “cooling off” period that could stop impulsive actions.  That doesn’t make sense if the buyer already owns a gun.  That is what a Federal Judge said in California, but California politicians appealed the judge’s decision anyway.


One Wisconsin lawmaker finally had the courage to state the obvious about waiting periods.  Wisconsin Senator Van Wanggaard served as a traffic investigator and graduated from the Racine police academy.  He said waiting periods don’t work.  Studies backed him up.  Waiting periods don’t change the overall suicide rate or homicide rate.  Some studies found a decrease in violence while other studies found an increase in violence associated with waiting periods.  The results hinge on a critical distinction, are we disarming a violent criminal.  or a potential victim.  The proposed change in Wisconsin law eliminating waiting periods goes to the Wisconsin Assembly and then, hopefully, to Governor Scott Walker for his signature.


Background checks fail again

Background checks are another gun-control myth.  Making honest gun owners re-register their firearms is somehow going to stop criminals from getting a gun.  Would it stop car theft if we had to go to the department of motor vehicles so I could drive your car?  Mandatory background checks are being proposed in the Oregon legislature.  Background checks are already mandatory in Washington state so we can see if they are effective.


Despite their gun prohibitions, the impossible happened this week in Thurston, Washington.  A high school student brought a gun to school and started shooting.  He was tackled by a teacher, and no one was injured.

The student was sixteen years old, so couldn’t own a gun.

The student was on probation, so couldn’t touch a gun.

Thank goodness Washington State has mandatory background checks so the student couldn’t take someone elses gun.. but he did.  Detectives say the student wanted to commit suicide by cop.

It looks like gun prohibition doesn’t work, but that won’t stop bigoted anti-rights politicians.


– In New York state, any pretext is good enough for another firearms restriction.   Now an Amish man is suing New York because of state gun laws.  New York requires a background check whenever guns change hands.  The background check requires a photo identification card.  The Amish don’t have photo identification, so now they can’t buy or sell guns in New York.  Tell me again who new york laws are protecting us from?? from the Amish?


– In Vermont, Bloomberg’s anti gun groups were pushing for mandatory background checks each time you took possession of a gun.  They spent almost 138 thousand dollars promoting the legislation.  Pro-rights groups spent only 20 cents for every bloomberg dollar.. and the pro-rights groups won.  There are no mandatory background checks in Vermont.  That took work from vermont gun owners.  Well done!



Rob- 7th Circuit Upholds Assault Weapon Ban

On Monday, the Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals upheld an Illinois city’s ban on so called assault weapons and high capacity magazines. This stunning ruling specifically dismisses the Constitution, the Bill of Rights and recent case law and instead relies upon the presumed feelings of the public. The majority of the three judge panel held that “if a ban on semi‐automatic guns and large‐capacity magazines reduces the perceived risk from a mass shooting, and makes the public feel safer as a result, that’s a substantial benefit.” In other words, if some the public can be convinced that the ban could make them safer, it’s OK; facts be damned. It’s hard to imagine a more incoherent legal justification.

In his dissenting opinion, the third panel judge wrote that the ruling is “at odds with the central holdings of Heller and McDonald: that the Second Amendment protects a personal right to keep arms for lawful purposes, most notably for self-defense within the home.”


This issue will almost certainly go before the Supreme Court at some time. For the citizens of Highland Park, Illinois, and of this nation, we can only hope it’s soon.


John – Why do I have the song Feelings running through head. “Feelings, nothing but feelings, oh, oh, oh”


Gary- Two  judges side with the politicians to give them more power.  Judges say all it takes is a good sounding headline to justify disarming the public.  The uninformed public will “feel safer” after they read the political spin.


Anti-Gun Researcher Refuses to Debate Dr. John Lott

The research director for Bloomberg’s astroturfing Everytown for Gun Safety, recently refused to debate gun law researcher John Lott. While we can’t blame Bloomberg’s mouthpiece for being chicken, after all, Dr. Lott is a force of nature with facts and statistics, his refusal to talk face-to-face is telling: antis just don’t have the facts on their side.


C-SPAN invited both gentlemen to discussed a recent Pew Research Center study that found more Americans now think protecting gun rights is more important than controlling gun ownership. Everytown’s Mr. Alcorn declined  to appear at the same time as  Dr. Lott, resorting to personal attacks to explain his refusal. Alcorn was allowed to appear after Dr. Lott, completely eliminating every possibility of give and take.


Lott said he was disappointed someone from Everytown wasn’t willing to discuss the Pew Center’s findings. The Pew study showed Americans who had once worried about crime and favored strict gun control, now wanted no more laws or even to loosen gun restrictions. “In short, we are at a moment when most Americans believe crime rates are rising and when most believe gun ownership — not gun control — makes people safer,” wrote Pew’s Andrew Kohut. “Every country in the world that’s banned guns has seen an increase in murder rates,” said Dr. Lott, president of the Crime Prevention Research Center and the author of “More Guns, Less Crime: Understanding Crime and Gun Control Laws.” Lott said that with more stories about defensive gun use being distributed in the new media, people are catching up to research on the issue. He reiterated that predictions of gun control advocates have never come to pass.


Spreading the word of lawful defensive gun uses is a big part of what we do here at the Polite Society Podcast.  It seems we are helping to make a difference.


Michael Moore Relies on the 2nd Amendment?

Big screen fabulist, virulent anti-gunner, noted hypocrite and left-wing barking moonbat Michael Moore may be supporting Michelle Obama’s claim that chronic obesity can lead to early-onset senility.


Very early Thursday morning, the big chunk took to Twitter to demand the immediate release of every African-American in prison for drug or nonviolent offenses. For his next belly-flop into insanity, Moore imperiously demanded that all police instantly disarm. Oddly enough, he justified that stupidity by noting; “We have a 1/4 billion 2nd amendment guns in our homes 4 protection.” Although true, that’s very odd reasoning from someone who wants the public’s firearms seized at gunpoint by the police. However, apparently even that blind pig can find an acorn of 2nd Amendment truth once in a while.

Go to bed Mikey, you’re drunk on yourself.




Gun Quotes

It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. Upton Sinclair


Hang on everybody, we’ll be back with our interview segment.

advertisement Concealment Solutions


Segment 3 Interviews


Jeff Street teaches firearms safety at his church.

First Baptist Church Naples

3000 Orange Blossom Drive

Naples FL 34109


Do you charge? Free.  Can’t charge when we use the church buildings.

How long have you been teaching at the church? About 2 years

How many attend the classes? 10 – 45

What is the goal of the class? This class is a great refresher for those current firearm owners and a wonderful introduction for those who are seeking information to start their firearm journey.

Emphasis on Dry Practice Training drills you can do at home to improve your fundamental skills including but not limited to grip, stance, trigger press. We also work on safe handling while drawing from holster, strong hand to off hand gun transitioning, etc. We also discuss personal defense ideas and issues. Mindset, The Law and Physical Skills.

What equipment do you use?  Blue Guns, SiRT Laser Pistols, Train Safe Barrel Blocks, Clearly marked dummy ammo (no live ammo is allowed in the classroom), LASR software from centroloutions using Infrared cameras and infrared SiRT pistols.

What is the overall reception to the training? They like it very much.  They also come to our live fire classes at LouLand Gun Club.  We put on Scoot and Shoot events at least twice a month.  The scoot and shoot is competition with yourself.  Some come to improve their competitive skills and some come to practice their self-defense skills. Some do both on the same day.

What are your credentials?  We have instructor certifications from; the NRA, Defense Training International John Farnam, RangeMaster Tom Givens, and Gabe Suarez.


Contact Jeff Street at Step by Step Gun Training



Laura Carno’s blog post on legislative stategy-  No, I Will Not “Shut My Pie Hole!

Laura’s other websites are-

I am created equal.

Laura Carno.com


Segment 4 DGUs


I see it as part of our charter to teach and inform. I think it is an important story, as long as this type of issue is not overdone. However, I could certainly be wrong – I’m married after all.  😉 Dan


XX- The news media won’t call it a defensive gun use, but we saw it in Ferguson, Missouri.  We saw it again this week in Baltimore, Maryland as well.  We saw stores smashed, looted and burned during riots.  We also saw store owners protect their businesses by standing there with a firearm.. and with no shots fired.

A Baltimore Sun reporter left his Crips gang member protection and was maced by a looter demanding his cell phone. The attack was stopped when the reporter ran to a store owner with a shotgun.  More guns, less crime.


Tennessee Homeowner Shoots Robber

An East Knox County, Tennessee homeowner was startled awake early Wednesday morning by the sound of breaking glass. From his bedroom, the homeowner saw an intruder climbing through a living room window. The owner fired once, and the robber fell backwards. Police found the perpetrator dead on the porch.

The late James Melvin Vinson had accumulated an extensive criminal record in his 40 years, including multiple theft and drug charges. At the time of his final crime, he had two outstanding warrants; for theft and for violating the parole that put him back on the street once again. Mr Vinson was the very definition of an outlaw; largely unrestrained by the legal system.


The homeowner is not expected to face charges. Under Tennessee’s Stand Your Ground law the man was within his rights when he used a gun to defend his home and his family.


Misuse of a Citizen’s Firearm

With rights come responsibility. A North Carolina man failed to use his rights responsibly in a shoplifting incident at a store. A man ran from the Beasley Power Equipment store with a pilfered a chainsaw. The thief jumped into a vehicle with two others while being pursued by the store owner’s son. They sped off after the son brandished the pistol and ordered them to stop. Two shots were fired at the departing vehicle and the driver was hit in the head. The store employee reported those facts to a 911 operator, along with an admission that he had seen no firearm. Their conversation, of course, was being recorded.


Our DGUs usually show the proper lifesaving use of firearms. For educational purposes, we do comment when their use could have been better. As such, we must point out when someone is legally and morally wrong when employing a weapon.


Most states hold that firearms can only be used in the defense of one’s self and others. A fleeing thief is simply not a danger to the CCW holder. Only a few states allow deadly force in defense of property; North Carolina is probably not one of them. In any case, a chainsaw cannot be equated with a human life. The pistol owner simply should not have fired in that situation. He should have been a good witness and reported the license plate numbers to the police.

The driver has been hospitalized in critical condition, his two confederates charged with felony theft. At this time, the shooter is under investigation by the district attorney. The shooter and his business will almost certainly face civil lawsuits. Self-defense classes like Massad Ayoob’s MAG 20 would have would have certainly made this mistake less likely.


Homeowner Shoots Two in Second Home Invasion in a Week

In the warped world of the criminal, they can come to feel they own something merely by desiring it. This can lead to repeated, seemingly improbable, attempts to possess the thing. This may be what happened to a California homeowner this week.


In the normally peaceful Pittsburg, California neighborhood, a homeowner shot and killed two home invaders Friday evening. This was the second time in a week that their home had been a burglarized. In the earlier incident, four people had been arrested. At this time, it is not known if the two deceased were somehow related to the earlier incident.


A neighbor wondered if there was a the connection between the two home invasions. “There’s no way of knowing,” he said. “They broke in and ransacked the place, and maybe they saw something they liked and came back.”  “If I was in (the homeowners) position, I would have done the same thing,” he said.





Salt Lake City Warning Shot

A his and her burglary team broke into a pricy Salt Lake City area home Monday morning. Alerted by the family’s dog, a neighbor called 911 and the homeowner grabbed a gun. At one point, the homeowner fired a warning shot, chasing the duo out of the house – and straight into the arms of the arriving police. Authorities report that the suspects have previous criminal histories.


Warning shots are rarely a good idea. The self-defense use of a firearm is usually limited to life or death situations. If the victim has time for a warning shot, almost by definition the situation cannot be that critical. That bullet has to go somewhere, perhaps threatening someone in the home or some distance away. And the victim has thrown away a significant portion of their life-saving device’s resources.


Quality formal training may have kept the homeowner from making this possible error. That being said, we commend the homeowner, the neighbor and police for the happy resolution to this home invasion.


Store manager shoots would-be robber in East Houston

The manager of an East Houston Cash-n-Carry was assaulted in the front door of his store Thursday morning. A robber put a gun to his back and demanded his cash. It apparently wasn’t the manager’s first rodeo, as underneath the package in his arm – he held a legally concealed handgun.


In that extreme situation, the manager used his gun and put two or three shots into the chest of the armed robber. The robber died at the hospital. An accomplice may have fled the scene in a getaway vehicle.


The robber paid the ultimate price for nothing, as the manager’s bag didn’t contain the hoped-for cash, instead only toiletries. To the good, the manager was able to stop the theft of his own life through his foresight and preparedness.


Utah CCW Stops Carjacking


A Utah CCW holder stopped a carjacking at a Macy’s in Orem, Utah on Saturday and ended a crime spree. The unidentified CCW holder, a 31 y.o. male,  had been shopping and came out into the parking lot to see a woman screaming as she was being pulled out of her Mercedes. The carjacker had stolen a truck earlier and was “trading cars”. The CCW holder ordered the carjacker out of the car. The carjacker then lunged at the man and tried to take his firearm upon which he was shot and killed. Police are treating this as a legitimate use of deadly force and are not charging the CCW holder. The carjacker, whose name is being withheld pending an autopsy, was wanted on several felony warrants. Police are searching for two other accomplices who fled.


Houston CCW Stops Carjacking

Wednesday evening a man was sitting in his vehicle in downtown Houston when two men asked for a ride. The motorist naturally refused and the two men left, but they came back. At gunpoint, the driver was ordered to kneel behind the car. When both men got in, the victim drew his legally possessed CCW and fired at the driver. The 30 year old carjacker died a short distance away, his accomplice escaped on foot.


The case will be referred to the grand jury to determine what, if any, charges will be filed.


Man Shoots Attacker With Attacker’s Gun

And lastly, a hapless New Orleans thief was shot with his own gun after his armed robbery attempt went dramatically sideways. The intended victim was having none of the assault, won the struggle for the gun, and immediately employed it in self-defense.

Good on the victim for turning the tables on the feckless thief. However, it’s usually best if you bring your own concealed weapon, rather than relying on the perpetrator to supply one for you.



We post each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com  Please take a minute and share them with a friend.





Segment 5 Show close


Listener e-mail discussion


We got this comment on our website and we thought that we would share it.


Great show. I was surprised to hear that more firearm genre radio programs could not be recalled, so allowe me. There is the “Lock Stock and Daria” out of Rhode Island (local), “On Target” broadcasting out of Illinois (local), Georgia Carry.org out of Atlanta (Local), now these are just off the top of my head. But you all are correct Gun Talk was the first nationally (key word) syndicated radio show and it was decades before they were challenged. As with National Media’s bias towards gun self defense stories, what they are not realizing or unwilling to realize is that local media has to report such events in their news cycle. What happens is average Joe one night watches the local channel 5 and learns of a single mother with two kids suffer a home invasion possibly ending with death, the following week average Joe watches a story of an 85 year pistol packing Ethel putting six in a bad guy saving her sick husband’s life. Now average Joe starts to think, and begins to talk to friends and so on and so on, the whole time national media sit in their New York bubble believing they are controlling the message, and fortunately with new gun friendly media that is no longer a true statement.

Keep pumping them out, I’ll keep listening.


Paul- Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?


Rob- I asked the question, How Does a Business Survive a Riot?  We saw it in Los Angeles.  We saw it in Ferguson.  Now we’ve seen it in Baltimore.  I have answers from Charles Heller, Dave Cole, Miguel Gonzalez, George Hill, Stephen Wegener, Ben Branam and Layla Sumners.  You can find their answers at SlowFacts dot wordpress dot com


John do you want to mention anything off of your No Lawyers – Only Guns and Money blog you would like to talk about?


I just want to quickly mention two posts that are related. First, I posted about Lonnie and Sandy Phillips. They were the plaintiffs who are now liable for attorneys’ fee for having sued Lucky Gunner and Sportsman’s Guide. We expressed some sympathy for them in the podcast last week. Turns out they are Brady Campaign employees and have been since 2013. Second, I did post the first of my Bad Apple Lawyer series featuring Prof. David Kairys who developed the public nuisance theory that was used in many municipal lawsuits against gun makers.


Both of these and more can be found at my blog. The address is onlygunsandmoney.blogspot.com


We would like to thank Charlie Foxtrot for writing up show notes for us. Even though you don’t hear him on the air he is a big part of what you get to hear.


Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast.  I’d like to thank (Guests) for joining us today.  co-hosts, will you be with us next time?  I’m looking forward to it.  Until the next time…

Gary: stay safe,

Rob: be aware,

John: and we’ll see you down the road.


Mention advertisers, Concealment Solutions, Crusader Weaponry and NJ2AS. Firearm Safety Institute


(after show close) How could we have made this episode better?


(DO NOT READ)Look at the shooters club by Bob Mayne and Ben Branam.  For $75.00 a year, $6.25 a month, you get 24/7 access to some fantastic training and audio podcasts that you can’t get anywhere else.  Subscribing from the link in our show notes helps Bob and Ben as well as helps us here at the Polite Society Podcast.


(DO NOT READ)Join your local civil rights group like the New Jersey Second Amendment Society, Arizona Citizens Defense League, Gun Owners of California, Commonwealth Second Amendment,  Connecticut Citizens Defense League, Florida Carry, Georgia Carry, Georgia Gun Owners, Grass Roots North Carolina, Illinois Carry, Maryland Shall Issue,  Michigan Gun Owners , Michigan Open Carry, and  Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners.


There are Minnesota Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance,  Nebraska Firearms Owners Association,   Citizens for a Safer New Jersey, New York State Rifle & Pistol Association,  Palmetto Concealed Carry, Open Carry Texas, Texas Firearms Freedom, Texas State Rifle Association. Tennessee Firearms Association, Virginia Citizens Defense League, Virginia Open Carry,  West Virginia Citizens Defense League, wisconsingunowners.org, and Wyoming Gun Owners.


For our Canadian listeners, and their supporters, join the Canadian Shooting Sports Association and the Canadian National Firearms Association.  If YOUR state or local organization isn’t read each episode, then send us an email and we’ll add them!


(DO NOT READ)The Polite Society download app is out on Amazon for Android and the I-phone app is in I-tunes and it is called Podcast Box.  They are located by our old name, Politics and guns.  Hot links are in our show notes.


Episode 310 – Steffon Lamont Josey, Tatiana Whitlock, and Laura Carno

Each of our segments can now be downloaded and shared individually!

Personal news segment. The hosts talk about what is going on with them. http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/310.1.mp3 

News segment 1. An Antioch, California pizza delivery driver is raped and robbed. More on Washington DC’s lack of issuing permits. Part of the 1968 Gun Control Act is struck down, and a New Jersey teenager is murdered shortly after filming an anti violence video. http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/310.2.mp3

Interview segment with  Steffon Lamont Joseyhttp://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/310.3.mp3

News Segment 2, a Texas homeowner isn’t charged after a no knock raid results in the death of an officer.  http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/310.4.mp3

Interview Segment 2 Tatiana Whitlock on kids and guns. http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/310.5.mp3

Rachel and Paul talk Texas senate gun bills.  http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/310.6.mp3

News segment 3. Laura Carno discusses developments in Colorado, pro gun bills die in New York, mayors are leaving Mayors Against Illegal Guns, women in Florida are getting carry permits, and a bill in California would make it a crime to mis-report someone on the new mental health restraining order law.  http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/310.7.mp3

DGU segment. http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/310.8.mp3

Email and show close segment. http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/310.8.mp3


John: Welcome to the polite society podcast presented by the Firearms Policy Coalition. We’re recording on Wednesday, February 11th, 2015.  I’m John Richardson.
Rob: I’m Rob Morse and I’ll interview Tatiana Whitlock about her new video called Kids and Guns.
John: I’ll interview Steffon Josey-Davis on his prosecution for having a gun in New Jersey.
Rob: We have a remote interview from Rachel Malone as she reports on campus carry, open carry, and constitutional carry in the Texas Senate.
John: and we also have some comments from Laura Carno telling us about the rally for self-defense in Denver..
Laura- comments?  Comments!?  I can speak from myself, John.  I’m Laura Carno of “I am created equal”, and I’ll tell you all about firearms legislation in Colorado.  We also have our weekly self-defense news and stories of defensive gun use,
so climb aboard.
Rob: strap in
John: and hang on! Because episode 310 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.

Show intro music.

Seg 1- Personal news from each participant

Rob- Welcome to the polite society podcast presented by the Firearms Policy Coalition. Rachel Malone is usually with us for the midweek show.  This week she is busy wrangling the Texas senate.  She promised us a report.

We have Laura Carno back with us.  You know Laura from her from I Am Created Equal.com from LauraCarno.com, from hearing her on radio interviews and watching her youtube channel.  You might also have seen her 30 foot tall picture on banners at the NRA convention.  Laura, welcome, back to the polite society podcast.  What’s new in your gun world?

Laura’s gun news- I was in denver covering gun legislation.  We’ll talk about that in the news.  I spoke on many radio stations about the progress of gun legislation in CO and some other non-gun topics. Always something to pay attention to here in CO.
Rob- I missed the show last Sunday because I had a private tour at a fantastic firearms museum.  I held a sword owned by President George Washington and an Austrian air rifle of the kind carried by Lewis and Clark.
Back to the here and now, I shot IDPA at a new range.  This was the first time this range invited an IDPA competition under their roof.  Have you noticed that some indoor ranges have dark areas?  A close target might be brightly lit, and a distant target might be well lit, but there are some dark bands in between.  We used those dark bands on the range to create low light stages.  That was great training.   It took us 3 hours to shoot the six stages, but each stage is over in seconds.  I was under 9 seconds for the el Presidente stage.  One stage had 9 shots on three targets in 4.7 seconds.  That is an average performance, neither fast nor slow.
I also spoke before San Diego Board of Supervisors.  The Republican county chairman used part of my speech when he had his county meeting.  A friend and I are rooming together at Nashville for the NRA convention.  How about you, John?
John- I have been dry-firing my new Ruger LC9s Pro. It really has a nice trigger for a production gun. I’m still waiting on my Kydex holster to arrive. I will need to order some additional magazines to go with it and I think I want a green fiber optic front sight. Old eyes, you know. Other than that, we are still on grandbaby watch. Olivia Grace should arrive within the next two weeks.

Rob- that wraps up the personal news segment and we’ll be back with the news after this break.
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Seg 2- News

1Laura- Welcome to the polite society podcast presented by the Firearms Policy Coalition. You know the dangers of gun-free zones.  In this case, a domino’s pizza driver delivered to a house in Antioch, California.  After she made the delivery, the 22 year old female delivery driver was held at gunpoint by a 17 year old male and forced back into her car.  She was forced to drive to another location where she was raped and robbed.  Police have the suspect in custody.

Antioch, California is in Contra Costa county.  Contra Costa County Sheriff David Livingston has a “may issue” attitude towards concealed carry licenses.  That means the sheriff would usually deny the delivery driver her request for a permit.  She would be denied a permit even though being a delivery driver is the 8th most dangerous profession in America.  Domino’s also has a no-guns policy.

The Sheriff failed to protect her, and the company failed to protect her.  Both the sheriff and Dominos also denied her the opportunity to protect herself.

Comment- I know lots of people who took a delivery job when they were in school or as a second job.  Now we’re telling them that delivery jobs are only for men?
Comment- That is a war on women.
Comment-  We have marches called “take back the night” where we protest for women’s safety.  Where are the protests against the sheriff and the employer who disarmed this young driver.
Comment- Sure we have the right of self-defense here in California.. in theory, but not in practice.

2Laura- “In theory, but not in practice” is a good description of your concealed carry rights in Washington, DC.  Only a fraction of one percent of DC citizens can receive a license to carry concealed.  That is why the Second Amendment Foundation brought their latest lawsuit.  SAF president Alan Gottlieb said he could only find evidence of eight permits being issued by the District of Columbia. The overwhelming majority of applicants are denied for no reason other than that the district did not want to issue them a permit.

Gottlieb said quote “The city’s requirements to obtain a carry permit are so restrictive as to be prohibitive to virtually all applicants. It’s.. a ‘Catch 22,’ in which you can apply all day long, but no reason is sufficiently good enough for (DC Police) Chief Lanier to issue a permit.  The city has set the bar so high that it relegates a fundamental civil right to the status of a heavily-regulated government privilege.”  Close quote.

That is morally wrong and probably illegal.  A federal judge said the previous ban on carrying handguns in DC was illegal, and DC has effectively perpetuated that same ban.

Comment- Now we have two reasons to call Miko Tempski
Comment- Two reasons?
Comment- Miko is the chief legal counsel at the Second Amendment Foundation, and he is also the spokesman for their training division.

3- This news was sent in by listener Chris Gillespie.  A Federal Court in Texas just invalidated part of the Gun Control Act of 1968 on Second Amendment grounds. Judge Reed O’Connor said that the prohibition against interstate sale of handguns where the purchaser both buys and receives his or her handgun in a non-resident state is unconstitutional. Moreover, the judge applied strict scrutiny and said the law would fail even if he had applied intermediate scrutiny. The judge said that with the NICS system in place there is no reason handgun sales should be banned when long gun sales are permitted. This is another great win for Alan Gura. Incidentally, the lead plaintiff, Rick Mance, is a fellow gun blogger who blogs at Traction Control.

4-New Jersey is a dangerous place.  A teenager from Newark was shot dead only months after participating in an anti-violence video. Three towns in New Jersey are in the 100 most dangerous cities in America   In fact, two New Jersey towns are in the top ten among cities with a population of 25,000 people or more.  The list compares cities for their combined rate of murder, rape, aggravated assault and armed robbery.  New Jersey is number one!  Camden was at the top of the list as the most dangerous city.  You remember Camden.. where honest citizens are disarmed by law, and you have a 1-in-39 chance of becoming a victim of a violent crime each year.  Atlantic City wasn’t far behind at number 8.  Bridgeton, New Jersey is #25 on the list.

Rob- comment- I’ve had gun control advocates tell me gun control works.. like it works in New Jersey, New York City and Oakland, California.  I’m not convinced.

John- Not only will criminals make you a victim in New Jersey, but so will the police.  Interview with Steffon Josey-Davis.

We have Steffon Josey-Davis with us tonight. He is a young man who had planned to go into law enforcement, worked as an armed car driver, legally owned a S&W pistol, and was even on the candidate’s list for the North Brunswick Police Department. However, due to the quirks of New Jersey’s gun laws, he is now a felon.

Steffon, could you take up the story from here and tell us what happened to change everything?

When you took the deal from the Middlesex prosecutor’s office, was it because of the alternative?
Could you have realistically fought the charges?
What now? I understand you have a plea into Gov. Christie’s office asking for a pardon. What is the status of that?
Mention his go fund me site to close.


skip 5-Interview with Tatiana Whitlock

We have anti-rights lobbyists claim there is an epidemic of child injuries from firearms. We know that isn’t true once we study the numbers, but you and I remember each tragic headline.  That is why I’m so glad to see a new video called “Kids and Guns” by Tatiana Whitlock.  We are lucky to have Tatiana join us today.  She both wrote and acted in the video by Panteao Productions.  Congratulations on your new video, Tatiana.

29 minutes is a lot of content.

I think of you as a competitive and self-defense shooter.  What pulled you to make Kids and Guns?
You asked firearms owners to lead their family by teaching their children about firearms.  I watched your video several times and you both kept it simple, and covered a lot of information.  A new gun owner would probably have to really study your video, or take a course so they know gun safety.
Gun safety.
Physical security- If you children can unlock your phone, then they can probably unlock your safe.
When did you start to gun proof your children?  How did you blunt your child’s curiosity?
Desensitized by dirty guns.
I liked the way you ask your child to be responsible outside your home, and that the adults have to provide an environment safe for visiting children as well.
Eddie Eagle.
You mentioned video violence.  What sensitized YOU to the subject of video violence?
Line of communication and living by their own judgment.
Your child’s interests may exceed your own ability to teach!  Be intentional as you interview a firearms teacher for your family.
You suggested that toy guns should NOT imitate real firearms.  You also suggest that our real guns should not imitate toys.
Tell your older children what you expect them to do when they see firearms outside the home.
Mood altering drugs!  You gave parents permission to lock up the guns or remove the firearms from the home.
Gun ownership is family business and not for public knowledge.
Tatiana, where can our listeners follow you?
Wide open spaces.com

6-You won’t find news like this every day, and almost never from Texas.  Texas Police conducted a raid based on information from a drug informant.  The informant said the suspect was running a drug operation and had illegal weapons.  The homeowner shot at the police as they broke into his mobile home during the no-knock raid.  The homeowner surrendered once the police identified themselves.  He had no illegal weapons.  He had four marijuana plants smaller than 6 inches tall.  One policeman died in the raid after being shot by the homeowner.  The grand jury refused to charge the homeowner.

What is unusual is that the homeowner wasn’t murdered by the police during the raid.  Police are routinely using gun ownership as an excuse as they seek no-knock warrants.  You could be the victim of a violent no-knock raid because you were swatted and own firearms.  The police then use any legal infraction they can find to justify the raid and avoid being sued for their violent actions.

John 7- There are many gun bills being filed across the United States since state governments are back in session.  Our Rachel Malone is fighting for human rights in Texas.  Her site is Texas Firearms Freedom.  Rachel, tell us what’s happening in the Texas Senate.


8 Laura –  Enough about Texas.  I’ve been sitting here waiting to tell you what happened when I was in Denver Colorado.
We have a republican senate and a democrat house.  We also have pro gun democrats!
Touch on divided legislature, and how that means nothing will likely pass.
Good news is magazine limitation repeal bill is bi-partisan.
CO has pro-gun democrats.
Tie to recall and 2013 gun legislation.  – no new gun control bills

D controlled house – mag limit repeal – killed
D controlled house – repeal background check –  killed
D controlled house – CBI produce certificates for transferees –  killed
D controlled house – Concealed handgun without permit –  killed
D controlled house – no liability for biz owners when someone conceal carries – killed
D controlled house – No background check for CCW holders on subsequent purchases – not scheduled yet
D controlled house – Concealed carry in schools (run by rep who is former Columbine student) – not scheduled yet
R controlled senate – Constitutional carry – passed senate, on to the house to die
R controlled senate – repeal background check – passed senate, on to the house to die
R controlled senate – mag limit repeal – to be scheduled – 4 D co-sponsors

people at the rally

Comments- One of the anit-rights protesters said “No one will die from a background check”  Really?  Tell that to the nurse who couldn’t get her firearm back from the police.  Tell that to the police who don’t know how to interpret the law and have called the background check law unenforceable.  We won’t know how many people were hurt because they could not get firearms safety training BECAUSE of the background check law.

Rob- This is from the new york times.  Dickey Lee Hullinghorst, the Democratic House speaker vowed to quickly defeat pro-gun legislation, quote  “Absolutely no chance of passage. This is one of the controversial issues where we’re never going to agree.”  Was the speaker misquoted? Sounds like she wants to keep colorado citizens disarmed.

John 9 – Katie Pavlich added up the numbers.  Nearly 50 mayors have left Billionaire Bloomberg’s group Mayors against illegal guns in the last year.  Since so many of these mayors have been prosecuted for corruption, we’re not sure if Katie’s statistics include voluntary withdraws or if she also include withdrawals due to incarceration.  With that uncertainty, Mayor John Tkazyik of Poughkeepsie, New York is left the Bloomberg group recently.  Tkazyik explained in detail that Bloomberg’s anti-gun organization isn’t about enforcing gun laws, but instead about promoting gun confiscation.  Quote “MAIG became a vehicle for Bloomberg to promote his personal gun-control agenda — violating the Second Amendment rights of law-abiding citizens and taking resources away from initiatives that could actually work to protect our neighborhoods and save precious lives.  It did not take long to realize that MAIG’s agenda was much more than ridding felons of illegal guns; that under the guise of helping mayors facing a crime and drug epidemic, MAIG intended to promote confiscation of guns from law-abiding citizens. I don’t believe, never have believed and never will believe that public safety is enhanced by encroaching on our right to bear arms, and I will not be a part of any organization that does.”

10-This is more good news, and it is also good to see where it came from.  Twenty-two percent of the concealed carry permits in Florida are held by women and the total number of permits has grown rapidly. Personal gun ownership by women has increased by nearly 80-percent in the last 9 years.  The firearms industry changed for women, from providing smaller firearms, different grips, and different classes tailored to female shooters.  The number of women at gun ranges jumped 60-percent  in the last three years.  The number of women in the State of Florida that have concealed permit has increased six fold in the last ten years.

That story was picked up by the NBC affiliate in Fort Myers, Florida

Comment- The people in Florida are the same as people anywhere else in the US.  Their behavior is different because the laws are different.  The growth in firearms ownership and personal protection we see in Florida tells us what to expect across the US once we remove government interference on the right of self-defense.  Now that scares the gun-grabbers.

11- I added this one as a spark of good news from California.  California has a law allowing mental health restraining orders.  These orders from a judge allow the state to seize a person’s firearms for up to a year.  Assemblymember Melissa Melendez, R-Lake Elsinore, is concerned that the existing law is open to abuse.  She said, Quote “Law abiding gun owners should never have to fear their rights can be stripped away because an angry ex or an angry neighbor wants to get even,” close quote.  Melendez wants to amend the law and make it a felony to file false reports while seeking gun violence restraining orders.

Rob- I messaged assemblywoman Melendez asking if she wanted to come on the show.  I also asked my state representative to support her bill.

Gun Quotes– If the average person is too irresponsible to trust with freedom, then how can we ever trust politicians with power?  Facebook.
Hang on everybody, we’ll be back with our defensive gun use segment.
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Segment 4 DGUs
Rob 1-Joseph Toombs is a young National Guardsman in Atlanta. As he sat in the drive-thru lane at his local Sonic restaurant, 19 y.o. Kenneth Brayboy and two others approached on foot and tried to rob him. One of them was armed with a handgun. It was then that Toombs drew his own handgun and shot Brayboy who later died at the hospital. Desmond McKnight. 17, has been charged with murder, attempted armed robbery, and tampering with evidence. Police are still looking for the third robber as well as the suspects’ gun. Toombs, who cooperated with police, will not be charged. Sonic is one of those restaurant chains that kowtowed to demands from Shannon Watts and Everytown. They had asked patrons not to come armed to their restaurants.

2-Christopher Ray Foster tried to force his way into the wrong home on Tuesday morning. He paid for it with his life. A rural Van Zandt County, Texas woman called 9-1-1 at 4:30am to report she had just shot a man trying to force his way into her home. The Sheriff’s Office determined that Foster was shot when he tried to break in through a side door. Materials found on his body tied him to a recent arson. In addition, Foster was out on bail for failing to register as a sex offender. The homeowner was not charged but, as is standard procedure, the case is being sent to the DA’s office.

Comment – I like what the local Sheriff said: “Presently, as the result of underfunding and inadequate staffing at the Van Zandt County Sheriff’s Office, homeowners need to take appropriate precautions to protect their families. I will continue to support the law abiding citizens of our community when they are forced to take actions to protect their lives, liberty and property.”

3-Riverside County Sheriff’s deputies were called to Bermuda Dunes early Saturday morning with reports of a prowler. While there, they got another call from a woman saying that her husband had just shot an intruder. They found the intruder inside the home suffering from two gun shot wounds. He was taken to the hospital where he later died. His name was not released pending notification of next of kin. The homeowner was not charged with any crime.

4-A home invasion in Madison County, Alabama turned deadly Monday night. Four people forced their way into a home there. The homeowner was armed and defended himself. When deputies arrived in response to a “shots fired” call, they found one of the intruders, Richard Taylor, dead. This was the second time that day deputies were called to the home on a burglary call. The homeowner will not be charged but the three other home invaders have been captured and are charged. They face charges of murder, robbery, and burglary.

Here we have a homeowner facing four attackers.  That is an argument for high capacity magazines.
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Segment 5 Show close
Laura- Welcome back to he ….This is our e-mail discussion segment.

Marty Krutolow asked for our comments on an article originally published in Slate magazine.  The article looks at data from the National Institute of Health.  It claims that more guns lead to more crime.

Marty, I’d counter with these data from Dr. John Lott.  It shows you the data of homicide rate versus the rate of gun ownership.  We lead in gun ownership.  We are average in homicide rate.

gun ownership rate versus murder rate

gun ownership rate versus murder rate

For your amusement, commentator Bill Whittle produced an interesting video on guns and violence.  It is called “Number One with a Bullet”.  We are 111th when countries are ranked by murder rate.  If you remove the leading Democrat controlled anti gun cities, then our US murder drops dramatically.  If the US had the murder rate of “gun nut” gun owning cities like Plano, Texas, then we’d rank 211th out of the 214 nations ranked.  Heavily armed Plano, Texas has a murder rate that is half of the rate in Germany.  So how do guns cause crime and murder?

Drug gangs, fatherlessness and poverty cause violence and murder.  Polticians ignore that fact because it is easier for a politician to blame guns than blame his policies.

Marty calls himself a gun owning liberal, and I say  welcome Marty, and thank you for listening.  We want to talk to everyone, and we know our listeners are not responsible for how their politicians vote.  In fact, it is the gun owning liberals who have to turn their politicians around.  Marty lives in New York State.

(DO NOT READ)The Polite Society download app is out on Amazon for Android and the I-phone app is in I-tunes and it is called Podcast Box.  They are located by our old name, Politics and guns.  Hot links are in our show notes.

Laura- Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?

Rob- I wrote that some rights are more equal than others.  Suppose we violated the right of free speech the way we violate the right of self-defense.  Laura, did they pass a ten word limit when you speak in Colorado?  Did they limit the size and power of a public address system?  When they imposed those limits on speech, did they explain that the government gets to speak as loudly as it wants to.  That is what we’ve done to the right of self-defense.

These infringements on your rights, and the politicians call them regulations rather than infringements, are necessary to protect the public.. or that is what the politicans say.

John: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast.  I’d like to thank Laura Carno, Tatiana Whitlock and Steffon Josey for joining us today.  Rob, will you be with us next time?  I’m looking forward to it.  Until the next time…
Rob: stay safe,
Laura: be aware,
John: and we’ll see you down the road.

Mention advertisers, ABN, Concealment Solutions, Crusader Weaponry and NJ2AS. Firearm Safety Institute

(DO NOT READ)Look at the shooters club by Bob Mayne and Ben Branam.  For $75.00 a year, $6.25 a month, you get 24/7 access to some fantastic training and audio podcasts that you can’t get anywhere else.  Subscribing from the link in our show notes helps Bob and Ben as well as helps us here at the Polite Society Podcast.

(DO NOT READ)Join your local civil rights group like the New Jersey Second Amendment Society, Arizona Citizens Defense League, Gun Owners of California, Commonwealth Second Amendment,  Connecticut Citizens Defense League, Florida Carry, Georgia Carry, Georgia Gun Owners, Grass Roots North Carolina, Illinois Carry, Maryland Shall Issue,  Michigan Gun Owners , Michigan Open Carry, and  Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners.

There are Minnesota Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance,  Nebraska Firearms Owners Association,   Citizens for a Safer New Jersey, New York State Rifle & Pistol Association,  Palmetto Concealed Carry, Open Carry Texas, Texas Firearms Freedom, Texas State Rifle Association. Tennessee Firearms Association, Virginia Citizens Defense League, Virginia Open Carry,  West Virginia Citizens Defense League, wisconsingunowners.org, and Wyoming Gun Owners.

For our Canadian listeners, and their supporters, join the Canadian Shooting Sports Association and the Canadian National Firearms Association.  If YOUR state or local organization isn’t read each episode, then send us an email and we’ll add them!

Episode 266 – Laura Carno and Assemblyman Brian Jones

Rob: Welcome to the polite society podcast recorded live on Wednesday, September 3rd, 2014
Rachel: I’m Rachel Malone and on tonights show we’ll have interviews with Laura Carno and California Assemblyman Brian Jones
John: I’m John Richardson, and we’ll talk about self-defense news, so climb aboard
Rachel strap in
Rob: and hang on! Episode 266 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.
Show intro music.

Seg 1- Personal news from each participant
Rob- Dry practice, buying ammunition and writing. The article I wrote about my “may issue” sheriff was picked up by Ammoland. From there it was picked up by NRA news. Scheduling some training.

Rachel- Not much news, just work and homeschooling. Enjoyed our trip to the beach last weekend and watched a great football game in which my brother’s team won.

John – My Next Level Training SIRT pistol arrived yesterday. And I love it! I have been doing some dry fire practice and trying out all the features of it.

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Seg 2- News News_Partner_white

Rachel -John Katso was a New York prosecutor.  He prosecuted organized crime.  He prosecuted street gangs in Syracuse, and put 130 gang members in jail.  He and his family were threatened.  Katso asked for and received permission to carry a firearm.  His car was robbed in the church parking lot while Mr. Katso and his family were inside.  His firearm was taken from the car.  A few weeks later, the thieves used the stolen firearm in a strongarm robbery of an illegal gambling house.  All that happened 14 years ago.  This November, John Katso is running for congress.  Katso’s opponent says he negligently gave firearms to criminals.  Here are points to ponder;

One- Take your gun with you when you go to church.
Two- Read political comments in New York media very carefully.

John Comment- The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms loses about 15 firearms a year.

Rob- A police officer in New York city stopped at a Bronx bodega on his way to work at the 44th precinct.  Three thugs beat him and grabbed his firearm.  Fortunately, they did not kill the officer.  Backup officers caught the thugs and recovered the pistol.. this time.

John Comment- The 44th precinct is where John Cardillo was a patrolman.  We’ve had John on the show.
Rob Comment- I’ve heard an officer say he can never lose a fight.  The officer can run away, but if he loses a fight then the odds are the thugs will kill him with his own gun.
Rachel Comment- Here is an important safety tip- don’t fight a police officer.

John- Welcome back from your long Labor Day weekend.  In New York City, 15 people were shot on Saturday and Sunday, and another 10 were shot on Labor Day.  4 of them died from the gunshots.  In Chicago, 33 people were shot and three of them died over the three day weekend.

Rob Comment- Ouch.  Those gun free zones aren’t working, are they!

Rachel- This phrase has become a joke, “Trust me.  I’m from the government and I’m here to help.”  The US military was going to help local law enforcement by giving them surplus military weapons.  They received M-4’s, M-14s and M-16s.  They received shotguns, handguns and armored vehicles.  As you’d expect, the local police departments are not as careful with other people’s property as they might be with their own equipment.  184 state and local police departments have been suspended from program and the entire program is under review.  Weapons are missing from police arsenals.. as well as two humvees.

In Mississippi, the Meridian Police Department was suspended from the program after their inventory showed four missing M14s.  In neighboring Arkansas, the Lawrence County Sheriff’s Department was suspended after it lost an M14 assault rifle and a night vision scope that was “damaged and destroyed” without prior approval.  The Huntington Beach, California Police Department was suspended from the program after losing an M16 assault rifle.  Quote

“The loss was discovered during an internal audit, and an investigation was inconclusive as to how that occurred.”

John Comment- I have a curio and relics license, and I don’t think the lost weapons were transferred with a 4473.
Rachel Comment- No, probably not.

Rob – This law enforcement officer knows his citizens.  Maryland politics are dominated by Baltimore and the DC suburbs.  Rural Maryland is another country entirely.  Wicomico [wy-KAHM-ih-koh] County Sheriff Mike Lewis reminded the citizens of his county that he will not violate the Constitution.  “I made a vow and a commitment.  As long as I am sheriff of this county, I will not allow the federal government to come in here and strip my citizens of the right to bear arms.”  Sheriff Lewis is mindful of keeping firearms out of the hands of dangerous felons, but also explained, “We do not need to strip law abiding citizens of their Second Amendment right to bear arms. That I get upset over. I really do.  I can tell you this.  If they attempt to do that, it will be an all-out civil war. No question about it.”

Rachel Comment- I bet he is part of the Constitutional Sheriff’s and Peace officers association.
rob Commnet- I wish he were my Sheriff.
John Comment- Yeah, but then you’d have to live in Maryland.
Rob Comment- Good point.


John- Welcome back. The California legislature did not close business until 5am Saturday morning.  There were several proposed bills that attacked the right of armed self-defense.  Some of them died in the legislature, and some of them are sitting on the Governor’s desk waiting for his signature.  The Firearms Policy Coalition wants to flood California Governor Jerry Brown’s office with e-mails and faxes.  Give them some clicks at VetoGunControl.com  These bills establish firearms restraining orders, mandate firearms registration, and mandate a gun owner re-transfer his own firearms each time he leaves or enters the state.

Rachel Comment- Let’s give California gun owners some help.

Rob – Here is some more news from the land of the fruits and nuts.   A junior high school vice principal in California was arrested after he didn’t break the law.  Bakersfield police took 51 year old Kent Williams, into custody sometime after 9 am.  Williams is Vice Principal of Tevis Junior High School.  Assistant Superintendent Gerrie Kincaid said she immediately notified police when a district administrator called her with an anonymous tip that a staff member had a gun on campus.

Vice Principal Williams cooperated with the school resource officer and said his licensed  firearm was secured in his office.  It took the Bakersfield police several hours to conclude that no laws had been broken because the Vice Principal holds a valid Kern County concealed weapons permit that allows him to have a firearm on a school campus.  The Vice Principal remains on paid administrative leave from the Panama-Buena Vista Union School District for violating district policy by bringing the firearm on campus before he received permission from Superintendent Gerrie Kincaid.  Superintendent Kincaid said “We’re a gun-free zone.”

Rachel Comment- Evidently they are far from a gun free zone.
John Comment- A gun free fantasy zone maybe, but not a gun free zone.
Rachel Comment- Does an “anonymous tip” sound suspect to you too?

Rachel- Here’s some breaking news from Texas. Today, Michael Keoughan stood trial regarding his arrest in Andrews, TX last January when he was openly carrying a rifle. Michael is a part of Come And Take It Texas but was doing a solo walk in a new location as part of a brand-new CATI chapter. CATI-TX has stood with him through his legal harassment this year, and today he was vindicated as the jury returned the verdict: Not Guilty.

Rob Comment-  It is legal if we all do it but not legal if you open carry alone?

John – The Washington Times described the booming business from pro-gun restaurants.  There are some 57 thousand businesses that welcome the armed citizen.  The Cajun Experience in Leesburg, Virginia, has Second Amendment Wednesdays, where patrons are encouraged to either go concealed carry or open carry.  Shiloh Brew & Chew in Maryville, Tennessee gained national media attention by putting a sign in the window of her restaurant welcoming firearm owners with permits.  The Chicken Express in Bossier City, Louisiana, gave a free combo meal to patrons who showed up with a concealed carry license.   John Kavanaugh owns Kavanaugh’s Esquire Club in Madison, Wisconsin decided not to disarm his honest patrons with a “no guns” sign. Quote ”..what if a crook came in and realized he was the only one with a firearm? Why should I post that? There’s never been an issue about it. We have such a variety of customers — older, younger, a lot of families.”  Some restaurants ask their customers to disarm.  The Pit Authentic Barbecue in Durham, North Carolina, decided to  hang a “No Weapons, No Concealed Firearms” sign in the window.  The barbecue restaurant was robbed at gunpoint in May. Two employees were injured, with one ending up in the hospital. Their Raleigh restaurant is the one  that hosted Gabby Giffords on her so-called listening tour.

Rachel Comment- Gun check! Who has their gun?
Rob Comment- Podcasting makes me hungry!

Rachel- Last episode we talked about more school districts with armed school staff on campus.  This is why they are critically important.  A teenager threatened to shoot her classmates and teachers at Franklin High School near Cincinnati, Ohio.  The 15 year old student told her friends she wanted “to do a mass school shooting and end it with suicide by cop.”  Her friends told school officials and the student was arrested.  She is being held at the Warren County Juvenile Detention Center.

Rob Comments-???  I’m sad that this young lady is suicidal.  We’re lucky she was stopped in time.  I’m glad more school staff are armed.

Rob- This is a story about someone who hates gun owners.  The self-proclaimed liberal democrat Mike Dickinson sent out a tweet saying “Dear god, please use Ebola to infect the NRA and it’s various members. For they are a true virus and true terrorists in America.  There would be no funnier thing then to see the NRA members in a death clutch of their gun while dealing with Ebola.”  Dickinson used shock media to get attention before.  In July he offered 100 thousand dollars for nude photos of the hunter and college cheerleader Kendall Jones.   Dickinson also attacked the The Tea Party and Christians.

John Comment-  I don’t think reaching out as a kinder and gentler gun owner is going to help with this guy.  He hates us.
Rachel Comment- Haters are going to hate, and it isn’t about us.

John – We have discussed the impact of concealed carry on the murder rates in Chicago a number of times on the podcast. A different take on this comes from Kurt Hofmann writing for the JPFO. Kurt holds that it is unnecessary to rely upon statistics to make our case for gun rights. Kurt states, “I don’t care because fundamental human rights–and the right to self-defense must be seen by any rational, ethical person as chief among those–cannot legitimately be held hostage to a requirement for a favorable statistical outcome.” He goes on to make the point that using numbers to justify our rights tacitly surrenders those rights if the numbers turn against us. He concludes by saying that our opponents try to bolster their weak arguments using stats like “a gun in the home is 43 times as likely to kill a family member” etc and that we must be better than that.

Rachel – This might seem philosophical, but we can do that every now and again.  Some liberal politicians want us to turn in our guns.  All of them.  Those are their words, not our words.  Their  “common sense regulation” is simply a series of stepping stones to disarmament.  We’ve taken about 23 thousand such steps in the United States so far, and the gun grabbers are still not satisfied.  Let me modify that last statement; citizens will be disarmed, not the government.  In fact, as citizens are disarmed and crime soars, the police claim they need more and more arms.  We’re told again and again that officer safety is paramount.  We have another example of where totalitarian power leads.  This example comes from Iraq.  ISIS, the Al-Qaeda associated group, issued this declaration for all land under its control.   in Iraq . . .

No public gathering are allowed other than those organised by ISIS. No guns are allowed other than those belonging to ISIS and carried by its supporters.

It has been said many times that power grows out of the barrel of a gun, and it looks like ISIS is embracing that idea.

Rob- Gun Quotes- To trust arms in the hands of the people at large has, in Europe, been believed…to be an experiment fraught only with danger. Here by a long trial it has been proved to be perfectly harmless…If the government be equitable; if it be reasonable in its exactions; if proper attention be paid to the education of children in knowledge and religion, few men will be disposed to use arms, unless for their amusement, and for the defence of themselves and their country. — Timothy Dwight, Travels in New England and New York [London 1823]

Hang on everybody, we’ll be right back after this
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Segment 3 Interviews

Laura Carno at 5:10 Defend Colorado, bring the second amendment supporters into this election.  Raise money and keep it in Colorado.  When was the event?  Where was the event? Who spoke?  Celebrities or candidates at the event?  How many attended?  What else is happening in Colorado politics?  Hickenlooper pardon, and Udall lied.  Laura’s I am created equal site is here, and Udall Lied is here.

Assemblyman Brian Jones of the California Assembly Republican Caucus.  The legislative session closed for the year.  The right of self defense had some wins and some losses this year.  Second amendment supporters are in the minority in the California legislature.  They fought SB 53 to a tie and it died.  Could you tell us about SB 53 and how you managed to stop the bill?

What are the other bills you managed to stop?
What anti-gun bills passed?
What should self-defense advocates do now?
Call the Governor.  Citizens in California have to vote and help get out the vote.

Here is a video of Assemblyman Brian Jones defending armed self-defense on the Assembly floor.  Here is the Assemblyman’s website, and here is his facebook page.  You can thank Assemblyman Jones by e-mail- brian@electbrianjones.com

Segment 4 DGUs

Rachel-This defensive gun use story is from Orchard Park, New York.  A homeowner and his son heard unusual sounds from an upstairs room at 1am.  They saw two people dressed in dark clothing use a ladder to break into an upstairs window.  The homeowner called police.  The homeowner and his son also grabbed their firearms and held the two intruders at gun point until police arrived.    Police arrested 18-year-old Jacob Rappleye and 22-year-old Anthony Guarino.  Both are charged with attempted burglary, criminal mischief, and unlawful possession of marijuana.

Rob Comment-

Rob – Also from New York, a homeowner called police.  She said two people were trying to break into her home in Crystal Lake.  By the time officers arrived, the thieves had broken in, and one of them had been shot in the stomach.  The homeowner fired after the intruders kicked in her locked door and advanced on her and her children.  Nicholas Porcayo, 18, and Brandon Mendez, 19, were charged with intimidation, a Class 3 felony, and criminal trespass to a residence, a Class 4 felony.  Mendez was taken to an undisclosed hospital with injuries that were not life-threatening.  Mendez already has a pending case in which he has been charged with two counts of criminal damage to property of less than $300, Class A misdemeanors, and mob action, a Class C misdemeanor.  He also is under court supervision for a misdemeanor battery charge, a case in which he also was charged with aggravated battery, a Class 2 felony; resisting or obstructing a police officer resulting in injury, a Class 4 felony; and theft of less than $500, a Class A misdemeanor. Those charges were dismissed.

Rachel Comment- Another frequent flyer.

John – This is why you carry.  It happened along a walking path in Lancaster, Ohio.  Dinah Burns was walking her dog when two young white men came out of the woods along her path.  One of them held a baseball bat and said she was coming with them.  The two men were not afraid of her dog, but they fled after she drew her handgun and pointed it at them.  Dinah Burns is licensed to carry a concealed gun, but she’d only recently started taking her weapon while walking her dog.

Rachel- We have the links to each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com if you want to share them with a friend.

We’ll be back..

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Tips and tricks
Segment 5 Show close

Listener e-mail discussion.

Rob- I got an e-mail from listener John in Texas who recently got his pistol instructors certificate.  He also has a SIRT pistol and promised to share his training tips with me.  Congratulations, John, and I want to hear your ideas.

Rachel- Here is an e-mail from TJ

Hey everyone,
Can you guys give some tips on keeping front sight focus while transitioning between targets and shooting while moving? I tend to shift my focus from my sight to the next target and then have trouble refocusing on the front sight to make my next shot. Any tips would be greatly appreciated!

TJ Gauthier

Rachel- practice slowly and perfectly
Rob- distance. point shoot versus slow aimed fire.

(DO NOT READ)The Polite Society download app is outon Amazon for Android and the I-phone app is in I-tunes and it is called Podcast Box.  They are located by our old name, Politics and guns.  Hot links are in our show notes.

Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?  Only that my post on my “may issue” sheriff was picked up by NRA news.  How about you John?

John do you want to mention anything off of your Only Guns and Money blog you would like to talk about?

I wrote a post on Tuesday regarding Tamara Keele’s decision to suspend her very long-running and very popular gun blog, View from the Porch. At the heart of her decision was having to deal with a cyberstalker. I said the person involved needed to be charged, convicted, and imprisoned. While I have been informed of his name, I don’t feel it proper to state it on the podcast as that would be giving him more attention than someone of his ilk deserves.

John- Rob, what do you have up on SlowFacts?
Rob- I’ll have a post comparing self- defense in two cities.

(DO NOT READ)Look at the shooters club by Bob Mayne and Ben Branam.  For $75.00 a year, $6.25 a month, you get 24/7 access to some fantastic training and audio podcasts that you can’t get anywhere else.  Subscribing from the link in our show notes helps Bob and Ben as well as helps us here at the Polite Society Podcast.

(DO NOT READ)Join your local civil rights group like theNew Jersey Second Amendment Society,Arizona Citizens Defense League,Gun Owners of California, Commonwealth Second Amendment,  Connecticut Citizens Defense League,Florida Carry, Georgia Carry,Georgia Gun Owners,Grass Roots North Carolina,Illinois Carry, Maryland Shall Issue,  Michigan Gun Owners , Michigan Open Carry, and  Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners.

There are Minnesota Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance,  Nebraska Firearms Owners Association,   Citizens for a Safer New Jersey,New York State Rifle & Pistol Association,  Open Carry Texas, Texas Firearms Freedom, Texas State Rifle Association. Tennessee Firearms Association, Virginia Citizens Defense League, Virginia Open Carry,  West Virginia Citizens Defense League, wisconsingunowners.org, and Wyoming Gun Owners.

For our Canadian listeners, and their supporters, join theCanadian Shooting Sports Association and theCanadian National Firearms Association.  If YOUR state or local organization isn’t read each episode, then send us an email and we’ll add them!

Rob: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast. Until the next time…
John: stay safe,
Rachel: be aware,
Rob: and we’ll see you down the road.

Episode 99a – Politics Roundtable

Rob Morse, Laura Carno and Daniel Shaw join Paul in the first round table discussion. Topics ranged from the recent scandals that have rocked the Obama administration to events in Colorado to the recent spate of school expulsions under zero tolerance policies.

Episode 96a – Mark Vanderberg and Laura Carno

On this Episode Mark Vanderberg chats with Toby and Paul about the recently completed NRA show among other things, and Laura Carno returns to talk about a recall effort in Colorado and a lawsuit brought by several sheriffs against the new gun laws. Brian has an Imbecile of the Week, and Ken Kowalski of the Rimfire Podcast guest hosts.

Episode 89 – Laura Carno and Guy Smith

On this episode Kathy Jackson has another of her quick tips, Laura Carno joins us to talk about Iamcreatedequal.com and Guy Smith talks about GunFacts.info. Also Paul and Toby talk about the Great Plains 2nd Amendment Society and another Hero of the Week.

Show link:



Hero of the Week

Shooting the Bull