Episode 286 – Jeff Knox and Carl Chinn


“An armed society is a polite society.. and this is the Polite Society Podcast where we support and report on civilian self-defense.”

Rachel: Welcome to the polite society podcast recorded live on Wednesday, November 19, 2014. I’m Rachel Malone.
Rob: I’m Rob Morse and on tonights show we’ll have interviews with Jeff Knox and Carl Chinn.
John: I’m John Richardson, and we’ll talk about background check statistics from Oregon, so climb aboard.
Rob, strap in
Rachel and hang on!  Episode 286 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.

Show intro music.

Seg 1- Personal news from each participant

Rob- I went to a county gun chapter meeting for Gun Owners of California last night.  That was here in San Diego, County.  Rachel, I talked about you.  I want my worst to be good enough.  I had a TV interview about California concealed carry.  That was an hour ago.  Does that count?  I’m getting a group of friends together to shoot Saturday.

John-My news is boring. I’ve been busy with work so haven’t been able to do any gun-related stuff. That and it is frigid cold here in North Carolina. It was 14 deg. here this morning.

Rachel- In spite of the cold weather, I truly enjoyed the Battle Road pistol course that my friends Mark and Mike taught for my group of friends. Seven of us spent two days at the Battle Road range training together, and it was time well spent. It’s been too long since I actually attended a full pistol course, and it was very good to devote concentrated time to personal improvement.

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Seg 2- News

The 16 gun stores in Los Angeles would be required to digitally report ammunition sale records to the city under a proposed ordinance backed Friday by the Los Angeles City Council’s Public Safety Committee.  The rationale behind the ordinance is that it takes police too long to have to comb through the paper records that are now required. LAPD says it has completed a pilot electronic reporting program at gun shops in the San Fernando Valley, and are ready to take the system citywide.   If approved by the full City Council, the measure would make it a misdemeanor crime when ammunition retailers fail to comply with the reporting requirements.  http://mynewsla.com/government/2014/11/14/proposed-ordinance-says-gun-stores-digitally-required-report-sales/

-We now have the statistics from the Oregon State Police.  They released the data on their background check system for firearms.  You can see for yourself that the public isn’t safer after this monumental effort. The state police processed 19,901 background checks in October.

Not one of them was arrested because they were a felon or otherwise prohibited from buying a firearm. Five were arrested, but we don’t know why. Eight people were denied for reasons of “mental health” but, as we have seen in the past, sometimes the police have no idea why these people have mental health holds. None of the eight were taken into custody.  Not a one.

36 of the denials resulted in “Investigation Complete, No Action.” So almost 20% of the denials were clearly against people who should not have been denied in the first place.

196 sales were “denied.” Remember, these are the background checks that the anti-rights groups claim will save us from all evil.


-Continuing on with Oregon, it appears that Gov. John Kitzhaber and the Democratic majority in the Oregon House and Senate are going to make another run at universal background checks.  Sen. Ginny Burdick (D-Portland) says that “We have a working majority for background checks.” Currently, Oregon requires background checks for sales by a gun dealer or at a gun show. It is unclear if the as of yet unwritten legislation will just cover sales or will include transfers. The effort for background checks fell short in the last session of the Oregon legislature.

-I’m sorry, but the stupid runs deep.. in England.  The Lancashire Constabulary is promoting the ‘Save a Life, Surrender Your Knife’ campaign.  Lancashire officers have now given their backing to a national initiative designed to raise awareness of knife crime and encourage the surrender of dangerous weapons.  http://www.lancashire.police.uk/about-us/news/save-a-life–surrender-your-knife

-The ten worst anti-knife cities stand out for their outright persecution of honest knife owners and extraordinarily restrictive anti-knife ordinances, far more severe than even the state laws in those areas. All too often this results in unwary citizens being subject to arrest and prosecution, and loss of their knives, for having a knife that is perfectly legal elsewhere in the state.

  1.    New York, NY (majority of pocketknives will result in arrest, aggressive persecution of

knife owners, over 60,000 to date)

  1.    Philadelphia, PA (all knives are illegal to carry except when actually in use on the job)
  2.    Ocean City, MD (many common pocketknives are illegal, Catch 22 traps many citizens)
  3.    San Antonio, TX (all locking-blade pocketknives knives are illegal to carry except on the job)
  4.    Rocky River, OH (2.5-inch blade limit)
  5.    Boston, MA (2.5-inch blade carry limit, including in any vehicle)
  6.    Cleveland, OH (2.5-inch blade carry limit, registration of any sale or gift of a longer bladed knife)
  7.    Chicago, IL  (2.5-inch blade concealed carry limit, 2-inch blade limit for 18 and under, but

minor cannot legally obtain any knife)

  1.    Corpus Christi, TX (illegal to carry any fixed blade knife or a folder with a blade longer than

3-inches except when actually in use on the job)

  1.   Aspen, CO (Any concealed knife is illegal to carry in public)

More details on each of the 10 worst cities’ knife restrictions can be found at: www.KnifeRights.org/10WorstBest2014

-Continuing on with stupid, the fallout from Washington State’s I-594 continues. The Lynden Pioneer Museum of Bellingham is returning 11 World War 2 era rifles to their owners because they would be in violation of the new law if they hadn’t performed background checks on the transfer. The firearms were part of the museum’s display entitled, “Over the Beach – The WWII Pacific Theater.”

– We discussed the layoffs at the Remington Arms factory in Ilion, New York last week. The New York Daily News is reporting that Remington CEO George Kollitides told New York officials in a recent letter that one of the major reasons that they expanded in Huntsville, Alabama was because of “state policies affecting use of our product.” – in other words, because of the New York SAFE Act which forbids the sales of AR-15s made at the Ilion plant in New York State. The Cuomo administration denies the SAFE Act had any impact saying that Remington is consolidating operations from around the country in Alabama.

-This is a story of what not to do. Colorado Springs police responded to a 9-1-1 call reporting shots fired in a home. They arrived to find three people in the basement of the house. Two were taking turns shooting at glass bottles while the third watched. Christian Clark, 28, and Codie Leslie, 23 were arrested and charged with prohibited use of weapons and reckless endangerment. Police say they had also been drinking.

John – comment – I always thought a basement shooting range would be the coolest thing to have in a house but I wouldn’t be drinking and shooting glass bottles if I had one!


Colorado Gov. John Hickenlooper said he’s willing to talk about the possibility of teachers carrying guns in Colorado schools. “I’m certainly open to that discussion,” he said during an interview with CBS4. “The ability of people to defend themselves in a world that increasingly looks chaotic (is important). There is not a parent in this state that doesn’t want to make sure we’re doing everything possible to make their kid safe.” This is somewhat surprising given the amount of money he has taken from Bloomberg to sign gun-control laws in 2013 that limited the capacity of magazines and expanded background checks for firearm purchases. Those two pieces of legislation – and the fallout from them – almost cost Hickenlooper his re-election.

-We had John Pierce on to talk about the new constitutional amendment in Alabama.  Here is a related story out of Louisiana.  Brandon LeBlanc is a human rights advocate and I salute him.  Brandon is taking aim at the Abbeville, Louisiana ordinance that forbids carrying any weapon.  In particular, Mr. DeBlanc is fighting Abbeville’s anti-gun ordinance.

Because Louisiana is an open carry state and has strict scrutiny review of self-defense, Brandon open carries and started a petition protesting the city’s ordinance.  Since then, he has gone to the mayor’s office to try to get the issue on the city council’s agenda.  “The response was, it’s going to take more than once person’s demand for it to removed for us to anything about it,” LeBlanc said.

Typically someone has to be arrested before the law will change.  If it does go to court because they want to make a test case, then they would claim that they are, that it’s protected behavior under the Louisiana Constitution, and they would very likely win and, at that point, they would strike down that law.”


A lawsuit was filed Friday in the United States District Court for the Eastern District of Pennsylvania against Attorney General Eric Holder and BATFE Director B. Todd Jones seeking to invalidate the Hughes Amendment. The Hughes Amendment ban the transfer or possession of any machine gun made after May 1986.  Ryan  Watson and the Watson Family Gun Trust are seeking the injunction. A similar action in Texas was filed on October 30 in the case of Hollis v. Holder. This latest action differs from the first in that Watson is subject to an actual taking resulting from actions performed under authorization of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.. Mr. Watson had sought and received permission to manufacture a machine gun on behalf of the trust. They later rescinded the approval and ordered him to surrender the machine gun.

Gun Quotes

“If ever a time should come when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

Hang on everybody, we’ll be right back after this message from Concealment Solutions.  As a special note, Concealment Solutions is offering free shipping on all orders for the rest of the month.

Segment 3 Interviews

We think of religious centers as being above our daily problems.  We see them as spiritual sanctuary and a place of peace.  Carl, is that accurate?

What sort of problems to churches, synagogues, mosques and temples see?
Churches vary enormously.  They may only gather a few families on Sunday, or have thousands of people on campus every day.
Focus on the Family
New Life Church in Colorado Springs
Deadly force events in churches are the rule, not the exception.
Any Questions, you guys?
The first mass murder in a church was in 1963.  There have been 11 since.
When do pastors recognize the need for physical security?  How could a pastor manage the security for a small community like that?
Insurance companies help the churches form their security solutions.  Chuck Chadwick has lots of experience.  So does Bob Clamser- Crisis consulting international.  Dave Grossman.
What sort of events does church security have to handle?
Missionaries often leave vulnerable areas.  Missionaries forget the difficulty of working in remote areas.
What was your experience at New Life?
We don’t hear about violence in church very often.  How common is that?  (your historical data)
How has the religious community learned from your experience? (your book and classes)
Who is leading the religious security movement?  (Names, websites, courses)
Is that where we should send our pastor for more information?  Brotherhood Mutual Insurance has some free information!
Where can people find out more?
What are your next classes/books/seminars?
Close, thank you, and mention your website again.  http://www.carlchinn.com/Home_Page.html

Jeff Knox – http://www.burr.senate.gov/public/

Background checks cover the population of new York city, 15-20 million people each year, in order to apprehend 15 to 20 people per year.  We are wasting our effort and ignoring good police methods.

Segment 4 DGUs
-A husband and wife returned home Friday night in Hartford, Alabama.  A group of armed men approached the couple and attempted to rob them.  The husband was a licensed concealed carry holder.  He feared for his safety and the safety of his wife.  He shot one of the robbers in the face.  The others fled.  The police chief said she did not expect to file charges against the couple. http://bearingarms.com/picking-wrong-target-concealed-carrier-puts-bullet-armed-robbers-nose/

Note that the numerically larger group would presumably have been able to do whatever they wanted to the couple if the husband had not been armed.

An armed customer in an Indianapolis pawn shop shot and killed an armed robber on Tuesday. The robber first brandished his firearm and then engaged in a gun battle with the customer. Indianapolis Metro Police identified the robber as Tyerre Allen, 25, who had recently been released from incarceration in an Indiana State Prison for – wait for it – robbery. Allen is also a suspect in other robberies in the Indianapolis area. Police have refused to identify the customer who is reportedly traumatized by the whole incident and fears retaliation. Police will be presenting the evidence to the local prosecutor’s office.

A Cleveland, Ohio homeowner confronted a burglar in his home near midday on Tuesday. The homeowner ended up shooting the burglar in the ear and the back. The burglar is in stable condition at MetroHealth Medical Center. While police confiscated the homeowner’s firearm as evidence, they have not charged him with any crime.

Jessica Hopper, 32, of Garvin County, Oklahoma had been arrested last week in the shooting death of her boyfriend Felix “Hammer”  Williams. Police had found him dead of a gunshot wound when they arrived on the scene. However, Ms. Hopper was cleared after police investigators listened to the open line 9-1-1 call which corroborated her story of self-defense. Ms. Hopper had called police due to a domestic argument. Williams then threatened her with a gun for calling police. When he put the gun down in another room, she picked it up so he couldn’t use it on her. This enraged Williams who started hitting Ms. Hopper whereupon she fatally shot him.

We have the links to each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com if you want to share them with a friend.

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Segment 5 Show close
Listener e-mail discussion

This is an e-mail from John in Texas.

I have been thinking about the dilemma of what happened in Washington (state) and what’s on tap for Nevada. I was listening to John Lott on Armed American Radio tonight. Dr Lott is calling the money it will take to go through a FFL to do a firearms transfer a tax. We need to equate these transfer taxes to poll taxes. There may be a legal challenge to these transfer laws on that basis alone.

Also the public was duped by false information in their statements and advertisements. Could we pass laws in state legislatures punishing false ads by making the misleader pay for equal advertising time to allow for the record to be corrected. It would also put a restraining order against a law that passes under false pretenses. The state Supreme Court would have jurisdiction over any claims.

(DO NOT READ)The Polite Society download app is out on Amazon for Android and the I-phone app is in I-tunes and it is called Podcast Box.  They are located by our old name, Politics and guns.  Hot links are in our show notes.

Rachel- John do you want to mention anything off of your blog you would like to talk about?

I did a short post this morning about changes in carry law in, of all places, Russia. Believe it or not, but Russia has better carry laws than New York, New Jersey, Maryland, and probably most of California. They  just amended their laws to include “self-defense” as a valid reason to carry licensed weapons. Politicians in the US should be ashamed that Russians have more rights to carry than many Americans..

Rob: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast.  I’d like to thank (Guests) for joining us today.  co-hosts, will you be with us next time?  I’m looking forward to it.  Until the next time…stay safe,

Rachel: be aware,

John: and we’ll see you down the road.

Mention advertisers, ABN, Concealment Solutions, Crusader Weaponry and NJ2AS. Firearm Safety Institute

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(DO NOT READ)Join your local civil rights group like the New Jersey Second Amendment Society, Arizona Citizens Defense League, Gun Owners of California, Commonwealth Second Amendment,  Connecticut Citizens Defense League, Florida Carry, Georgia Carry, Georgia Gun Owners, Grass Roots North Carolina, Illinois Carry, Maryland Shall Issue,  Michigan Gun Owners , Michigan Open Carry, and  Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners.

There are Minnesota Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance,  Nebraska Firearms Owners Association,   Citizens for a Safer New Jersey, New York State Rifle & Pistol Association,  Palmetto Concealed Carry, Open Carry Texas, Texas Firearms Freedom, Texas State Rifle Association. Tennessee Firearms Association, Virginia Citizens Defense League, Virginia Open Carry,  West Virginia Citizens Defense League, wisconsingunowners.org, and Wyoming Gun Owners.

For our Canadian listeners, and their supporters, join the Canadian Shooting Sports Association and the Canadian National Firearms Association.  If YOUR state or local organization isn’t read each episode, then send us an email and we’ll add them!

Episode 253 – Jeff Knox

“An armed society is a polite society.. and this is the Polite Society Podcast where we support and report on civilian self-defense.”
Paul: Welcome to the polite society podcast recorded live on Saturday, July 19th, 2014. I’m Paul Lathrop
Rob: I’m Rob Morse and we have an interview with Jeff Knox, Director of the firearms coalition.
Gary Daughetry: I’m Gary Daughetry, and we have our weekly stories of defensive gun uses
Gary Harpster: I’m Gary Harpster, and we have our usual gun news
Rob: so climb aboard
Gary D: strap in
Gary H: and hang on!
Paul: Episode 253 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.
Show intro music.

Seg 1- Personal news from each participant

Paul: Museum story. My Son’s Birthday party story
Gary: I ordered a new left handed holster for personal and class training.
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Seg 2- NewsNews_Partner_white

1 Paul: Nick Leghorn over at The Truth About Guns reports that Remington has pulled all information about the R51, the handgun released this past winter just before Shot Show, off of it’s website. I REALLY wanted to like this gun, but was concerned when there were no examples available to fire at media day at the range. If true that it is going away  it is too bad. I really liked the style of the gun, it was kind of retro and futuristic at the same time. When I held the display model at the Remington booth it was hard to make the grip safety work reliably and the red dot laser was even harder to make actuate, but I thought that those things could be worked on. Alas it looks like Remington is not going to give the R51 a second try.

2 Rob- California Governor Brown signed a bill into law banning single shot handguns. This is an anti-gun solution in search of a problem.  Single shot firearms are not used in crimes.  Nor are firearms converted from single shot back to normal semi-automatic operation.  So why write and pass such a law?  This was a must pass bill for anti-gun Democrat legislators who are eager to secure campaign funding.  Money talks in the Golden State, particularly anti-gun  campaign donations.

Gary D- Maybe the hunters that think they don’t need the NRA will join now that they can’t use their Thompson/Center Encore anymore.

Paul- We have a lot of news from an epidemic of failed gun free zones.

3 Gary H- Jack in the Box restaurants all across the country continue to be an easy hunting ground for criminals since the company requested that gun owners eat elsewhere.  A Jack in the Box in Honolulu, Hawaii was robbed by a suspect carrying a rifle.  A Houston Texas Jack in the Box was held up by two armed robbers in broad daylight.  Including another holdup in Tennessee, two people were shot in some of the latest Jack in the Box robberies.

Brian Luscomb is Vice President for Jack in the Box.  He said, “Creating a warm and inviting environment for all of our guests and employees is a top priority for Jack in the Box.

The presence of guns inside a restaurant could create an uncomfortable situation for our guests and employees.. and lead to unintended consequences.”

Paul- Mister Luscomb, your gun free zone does not mean what you think it means.

Gary D- Another Bloomberg success story.


4 Rob- Speaking of Bloomberg success stories.. Target Department Stores have been targeted by thieves now that concealed carriers are not welcome.  A Target customer was robbed at gunpoint by several thieves in the parking lot at a Georgia Target store.  In another Georgia Target store, a woman was severely beaten and her car stolen from the store parking garage.  On the west coast, a Target security guard approached a man for shoplifting in an Oregon store.  The thief pointed his gun at the security guard and fled.

Target’s interim CEO, John Mulligan, said: “Bringing firearms to Target creates an environment that is at odds with the family-friendly shopping and work experience we strive to create.”

Paul- Being robbed and mugged isn’t exactly the family-friendly experience I want when I shop.


5 Gary D- Police are searching for two suspects who robbed a Chicago Transit Authority train at gunpoint.  In case you forgot, public transit is another no-carry zone for honest Illinois gun owners.  These latest robberies occurred around 4 in the afternoon on the Orange Line train between the Halsted and Roosevelt stop.  This is the train typically used by tourists who fly into Chicago’s Midway airport.  The robbers boarded the train and announced an armed robbery. They robbed several people of an iPad, two laptops, an iPhone, bank cards and $105 dollars in cash.  The thieves fled when the train arrived at the Roosevelt station. The CTA did not make a statement other than to say it’s a “police matter.”  I call it another gun free zone not working in Chicago

Paul- Maybe you can excuse a corporate executive for not understanding the nature of self-defense, but when the executive is paid that much, he should ask the experts.

6 Paul- Here is a store that should know about self-defense.. and about customer service.  Absolute Outdoors in New Kent, Virginia has a large sign in their front window that says “No loaded guns”.  Ed Levine from the Virginia Citizens Defense League asked the store how the policy was enforced.  The store’s owner had this shockingly rude answer.

“You need to add to your list of titles:
In desperate need of a life
life long member of the tiny dick club
Just plain stupid
Now that better describes you.

I’m usually there everyday so you should drop by and see me little man.”

Most guns stores simply ask you to keep your loaded firearm holstered, but not Absolute Outdoors in New Kent, Virginia.

7 Gary H- We have another advocate for gun-free zones in Missouri.  Missouri Governor Jay Nixon vetoed legislation that allowed specially trained teachers to carry concealed guns on school grounds.  Nixon said armed teachers jeopardize safety.  The Democrat governor waited until the legislative session closed before he issued his veto.  Now the Republican-led Legislature has to wait until the September session to attempt an override.

If trained teachers jeopardize students, do the Missouri Capitol Police jeopardize safety of the Governor and legislators too?

8 Rob- We don’t often think of a county as being a gun free zone, but I live in such a county in California.  San Joaquin County, California has similar restrictions with only a few hundred carry permits.  Those of us who have to live in gun-free California counties are told that the police will be there to protect us.  There is an important difference between protecting yourself and waiting for the police.  Last week that  difference mattered.

Three armed gunmen tried to rob a bank in San Joaquin county.  A deputy spotted the robbery in progress, but he was outside the bank and the citizens inside the bank were unarmed.  The robbers took three hostages.  Two of the hostages were badly injured as the robbers tried to escape, and one of the hostages was killed by gunfire.

The police will be there in minutes, and sometimes seconds are the difference between life and death.

Gary D- The robbery took place in Stockton, and the robbers were using AK pistols.  More failure of gun control.. just like Chicago.

9 Gary D- We reported on this story a few episodes ago, but the story of Shaneen Allen goes on.  Shaneen drove into New Jersey where she was stopped by a policeman for a lane change.  Unfortunately, she was carrying a firearm, and like an honest citizen, she informed the New Jersey officer who stopped her.  She was arrested since there is no reciprocity between New Jersey and Pennsylvania where Shaneen was licensed.  Shaneen is a single mom with two children and two jobs.  She works late and was robbed twice this year.  She took her firearms safety class and had her carry license for only a few weeks.

Think about this for a moment.  This young woman drove a car that is far more powerful than any handgun.  She used a drivers license issued by Pennsylvania and recognized all across the country.. and even recognized in New Jersey.  She is also recognized as a US citizen from a birth certificate issued in another town.

As I said, Allen had a license to carry a concealed weapon issued in Pennsylvania.  That licensing process is far more rigorous than getting her drivers license or her citizenship papers, particularly for a concealed carry license from Philadelphia where Allen lives.  New Jersey ignores that license and branded her a criminal.

I don’t know if you remember speed traps in the south and southwest where small towns would use law enforcement to fine and imprison strangers.  This is the same miscarriage of justice inflicted on an innocent woman.  Allen faces a felony weapons possession charge and faces three year in New Jersey prison.  This single mom was already jailed for 46 days before she could make bail.  She was about to accept a plea deal and serve the three years when she got a good lawyer.  This is bigotry against honest gun owners.

Show me the victim if she is a criminal.

There is a defense fund on Facebook, and I hope you will call the National Rifle Association and Gun Owners of America asking them to help her.  You are a member, aren’t you?

10 Paul- Anti-gun groups in Nevada want to put an initiative on the ballot to legislate universal firearms background checks.  The Las Vegas Review Journal came out against the measure in an editorial.  They said the gun control proponents must “overcome the strongest argument against expanded background checks: the fact that determined lawbreakers who want a gun will not respect the laws written to disarm them.”  The editorial then went on to cite the many examples of criminals either avoiding or passing background checks.

11 Gary H- Detroit has shown that armed citizens save lives.. and might save their city as well.  Detroit has a decreasing tax base and huge municipal debts.  Much of Detroit is abandoned, and the police can’t even patrol the ruins.  Despite those tough conditions, robberies are down 37 percent year to year.  Breakins are down 22 percent and there have been 30 percent fewer carjackings.  It isn’t that the Detroit economy is suddenly so much better.  What changed is that Detroit citizens are harder targets for criminals.

Police Chief James Craig said, “Criminals are getting the message that good Detroiters are armed and will use their weapon.  I don’t want to take away from the good work our investigators are doing, but I think part of the drop in crime, and robberies in particular, is because criminals are thinking twice that citizens could be armed.”

Paul- This week’s quote come from Lysander Spooner.  “A man is no less a slave because he is allowed to choose a new master once in a term of years.”

Hang on everybody, we’ll be right back after this
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Segment 3 Interviews

Interview with Jeff Knox, Director of the Firearms Coalition talking about universal background checks.  Red/Green stripe is an old proposal.  A green “G” is a known good guy.  There are a few obvious questions.  Who pays?  Will any period of review, say 5 years, satisfy the gun grabbers?

Segment 4 DGUs
1 Gary H- It is good to have friends with guns, even if they are strangers.  Donald Sacco was at an Orange County, Florida bus stop.  That is where he was attacked and robbed by Thomas Thorpe.  Thorpe Stabbed Sacco in the hand, leg and abdomen.  A passing motorist saw the attack and stopped his car.  The motorist drew his firearm and held Thorpe at gunpoint while other witnesses helped the wounded Sacco.  Thorpe was taken into custody by deputies and charged with attempted first-degree murder, aggravated battery with a deadly weapon, robbery and carrying a concealed weapon.  The victim was transported to the hospital in stable condition.

2 Rob-  With friends like this, it is time to change occupations.  A homeowner in a North Houston suburb went for his shotgun when three armed men broke into his home.  One of the thieves grabbed the shotgun and the two wrestled for control of the long gun.   That is when the thief accidentally fired his handgun and struck another thief.  The wounded thief was captured by deputies and transported to the hospital.  The two other thieves escaped.

Distance is your friend in a fight.  Keep your firearms close and your enemies far away.

I’m not much of a long-gun guy yet.  Is it true that the only use of your handgun is to fight your way to your long gun?

3 Paul –

This article was e-mailed into Guns Save Lives.

A woman in Gainsville, Texas confronted a man who wandered into her yard.  She thought the intruder was high on drugs because of the way he acted when she repeatedly asked him to leave.  At that point the intruder threw his hat on the ground, and came at her. The homeowner’s 13 year old boy had his Ruger 10/22 in hand, but did not have to fire a shot.  The intruder turned and ran at the sight of the firearm.  The homeowner’s 15 year old daughter called 911, but it took the police an additional 8 minutes to arrive.

This incident is typical of most defensive gun uses.  You only call the police after the threat is apparent.  The sight of a firearm stops most attackers.  The police arrive to take a report after the event is over.

Long guns are better than nothing.

4 Gary D- Two teenagers — a 15-year-old and a 17-year-old — tried to steal Victoria Davison’s car last month while she was in it, “I want the keys, car, everything,” commanded one of the teens.  Davison hesitated, prompting one teen to tell the other, “Go get the cannon” — a reference to his gun. But Davison had a “cannon” of her own and pulled it out of her gym bag. She shot the 15-year-old. “I shot the one that was in front of me. The one in the back of me, he said a curse word, and then he looked at his friend, and then he ran off while his friend was on the ground,” Police are investigating what may be “dozens” of carjackings and robberies tied to the teens. The wounded 15 year-old is also connected to a violent shooting where he shot a 43-year-old man in the face following an attempted carjacking.

I’m sorry everybody but I am a trainer and I tend to see teaching moments. She says in the interview that she had the gun in a bag and struggled to get the zipper open and the gun out. Another reason to if at all possible on-body carry if you can.

Victoria Davison interview

Teens accused in several carjackings seen together at Children’s hospital

5 Gary H-  A guest at the Grand Hyatt Hotel on the river walk in San Antonio, Texas had to use deadly force to defend himself and a woman when a mentally ill man threatened and then charged the pair. Torres went to the sixth floor of the hotel at 1 p.m. and started breaking lights in the hallway, according to police. He started to bang on a door, and when a witness opened it, Torres said he was “looking for someone to kill,” police said.

The witness slammed the door, so Torres banged on another one, police said.

The man inside of that room waited a moment to open the door, and when he did, Torres charged him. The hotel guest drew a concealed handgun, fired one shot, and struck Torres in the chest, stopping him just outside of the door.

No charges have been filed or are currently expected in the case.

Torres’ family says the man was suffering from an unidentified mental illness.

Gary – Teaching moment – If a stranger is pounding on your door, don’t open it.

6 Rob -Two homeless Oregon men thought someone reported them to the Bureau of Land Management as trespassers, so they went to the man’s home armed with a baseball bat and took turns beating him.  The beating caused extensive head, face and back injuries. In an attempt to escape after the attack, the victim grabbed a shotgun from his home and fired two rounds into the air. The suspects fled and called police to report that they had been shot at. They were later arrested and charged with assault.

Gary D- I guess that is the Joe Biden defense.

This one was sent in by Greg in Bremmerton,

From the NBCLosAngeles.com site.
A market robber is believed to have accidentally killed his accomplice during a fight with the owner of the El Sereno store they were robbing Friday, the Los Angeles Police Department said.
A 21-year-old man allegedly shot a 35-year-old man at the market at 11:15 a.m., according to police.
“There was an altercation with the store owner, who tried to take the rifle away,” LAPD officer Nuria Vanegas said.
The man who was shot was wielding a machete, police said.
The men’s names were not immediately released.
The store owner was uninjured.

Paul- We have the links to each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com if you want to share them with a friend.

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Segment 5 Show close

Listener e-mail discussion

Gary H- Email #1 From Ken in Arizona
I thought you’d like to know that Target’s “no guns allowed” policy is actually working! I just bought a new cell phone, and 2 new tablet computers, and a few accessories to go along with them. And not once did I ever consider going into Target to shop. Their policy worked. It kept me and my gun out. Apparently, smarter people than I are making good decisions after all.
Who says a “gun-free zone” doesn’t work.
Ken in AZ

Gary D- We got a message from John Willett of the Bold Departure podcast
Hi, What’s up guys? I was just listening to the episode with Russell Smith’s proposal for firearms purchases. Frankly, moving to combine photo ID and ability to purchase a firearm is a huge step in the wrong direction. I will add that we shouldn’t generate proposals based on the worst state’s laws. I have seen a proposal that makes a lot of sense. Rather than using the failed paradigm of relying on laws that prohibit activity, we utilize technology and an incentive for folks to conduct their own background check prior to a sale via a website that performs the same function as NICS does now. The website gives them a code that is good when combined with info from their existing ID for firearm purchases for a predetermined amount of time. The incentive is that the seller of the firearm would keep documentation of the sale with the code and that would provide them legal immunity against criminal action related to the sale.

Paul- The Polite Society download app is out on Amazon for Android and the I-phone app is in I-tunes and it is called Podcast Box.  They are located by our old name, Politics and guns.  Hot links are in our show notes.

Rob- Also please check out Kathy Jackson’s Cornered Cat training classes. Go to Cornered Cat dot com for more classes and details.

Gary H- Look at the shooters club by Bob Mayne and Ben Branam.  For $75.00 a year, $6.25 a month, you get 24/7 access to some fantastic training and audio podcasts that you can’t get anywhere else.  Subscribing from the link in our show notes helps Bob and Ben as well as helps us here at the Polite Society Podcast.

Join your local civil rights group like the New Jersey Second Amendment Society, Arizona Citizens Defense League, Gun Owners of California, Commonwealth Second Amendment,  Connecticut Citizens Defense League, Florida Carry, Georgia Carry, Georgia Gun Owners, Grass Roots North Carolina, Illinois Carry, Maryland Shall Issue,  Michigan Gun Owners , Michigan Open Carry, and  Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners.

There are Minnesota Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance,  Nebraska Firearms Owners Association,   Citizens for a Safer New Jersey,New York State Rifle & Pistol Association,  Open Carry Texas, Texas Firearms Freedom, Texas State Rifle Association. Tennessee Firearms Association, Virginia Citizens Defense League, Virginia Open Carry,  West Virginia Citizens Defense League, wisconsingunowners.org, and Wyoming Gun Owners.
For our Canadian listeners, and their supporters, join the Canadian Shooting Sports Association and the Canadian National Firearms Association.  If YOUR state or local organization isn’t read each episode, then send us an email and we’ll add them!

Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast. Until the ( mid-week / weekend ) show…
Rob: stay safe,
Gary H: be aware,
Gary D: and we’ll see you down the road.

Eposode 198 with Valinda Rowe and Jeff Knox

Paul: Hi and welcome to the Politics and Guns Podcast recorded on Friday, January 10th, 2014. I’m Paul Lathrop.
Rob: I’m Rob Morse and we’ll also talk with our guest Valina Roe about Concealed carry coming to Illinois, and Jeff Knox about the simple things we can do to make schools safer. So climb aboard.
Paul: Strap in
Rob: And hang on, episode 198 of the Politics and Guns Podcast starts right now.
Show intro music.

Seg 1
Catch up with each participant and humorously ridicule the no-shows.
Host asks for comments before moving on.
paul went to GunUp in Sioux Falls and bought some more Glock 40 mags. I fell in love with a 30 cal Bullpup.
Topic 1
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Seg 2- News
Host asks for comments before moving on.
advertisement Concealment Solutions and Nighthawk

Rob- Colorado Republican state Sen. Ted Harvey wants to allow school teachers and staff to seek training and then bring firearms into school with them.  Senator Harvey has a son in high school and his wife is a school teacher.  He said the latests shooting cemented his opinion.  The latest Colorado school murders were stopped in 80 seconds by an armed school resource officers and an unarmed security guard.  “I don’t want my wife and child to be sitting ducks,” Harvey said.
One student was murdered in this latest attack.  Maybe she would have been saved if staff were armed.

Paul – At the other extreme, Democrat State Senator Kevin de Leon from California says it is a public danger to let common citizens buy ammunition without a background check  and his new legislation proposes to fix that problem.
Ah..what problem is that, Senator?  Ignore that fact that most drug gangs import thousand of pounds of contraband each year.  Ignore that millions of rounds of ammunition routinely move across the border for legal purposes.  This security theater will sell in California.  Senator de Leon has a future with the TSA when he leaves office.
Oh, did I mention that you would need to pay a yearly fee to purchase ammunition in the once-golden state?

Rob- This next news story is a two-fer.  First, Bloomberg has tossed 30 thousand dollars into the Washington state campaign for gun control by backing initiative 594.  The initiative requires a background check for all firearms transfers, without exception.  We’ve discussed the legal that come up from such measures when  young people under supervision shoot a gun belonging to someone else because they are not old enough to legally own firearms.
Second, the Washington news paper, the Daily Olympian, ran an editorial blaming the NRA (who has not contributed to the campaign) but ignoring Bloombergs donations.  Why let the truth get in the way of a good opinion column.

Paul- The civil rights group Wisconsin Carry is suing the city of Madison Wisconsin over the city’s prohibition of carrying firearms on public transportation.  Quote, “We do know that people who live in high-crime neighborhoods tend to be lower income and tend to rely on mass transit, so for those people to be prohibited from carrying is really a disservice to them and puts them at greater risk.”  That sums up the bigotry of citizen disarmament.

Rob – Heading south from Wisconsin, Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel decided not to appeal a federal judge’s ruling that allows gun shops in the windy city.  “The courts have been clear from the Supreme Court on down as it relates to people’s access to guns.”  The mayor asked the judge for a six month delay so he and the city council can draft regulate gun shops, but Emanuel wouldn’t specify any of the regulations he has in mind except the gun shops shouldn’t be near schools.
By my calculation, that puts the gun shops a half-mile out in Lake Michigan.

Paul – This in from the Politics-and-Guns legal department, the Second Amendment Foundation and Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs today asked the U.S. Supreme Court to hear the appeal in the challenge to New Jersey’s unconstitutional carry laws.
The petition was prepared by attorneys Alan Gura and David Jensen to resolve the court split on the right to bear arms for personal protection outside the home.  Scott Bach said, “So far the U.S. Supreme Court has declined to hear the issue in other cases, but this case may be different due to the extreme nature of New Jersey’s law, which effectively denies law-abiding citizens their fundamental right to self-defense outside the home.”

Rob -From our Good-Cop file, Officer Lee Smith of the Florence Alabama Police Department offers free gun safety classes to those interested in concealed carry.  Smith said the classes started seven years ago. We want to educate everyone who makes the choice to carry a firearm for defense.  We want to give them all the tools to make them safe and the community safe.”  Gun safety classes are divided into three levels offered monthly, and hundreds of residents have taken the courses.
That is proactive community policing.  Good job.

Paul- From our Bad Cop file, witnesses came forward after a Sheriff’s deputy shot 13 year old Andy Lopez of Santa Rosa, California.  The 8th grader was carrying a toy rifle when deputy Erick Gelhaus called the teenager.  The boy turned and the deputy fired eight rounds, killing the boy.  Witnesses say there was only three seconds between the deputy Gelhaus calling out to the teenager and when the deputy started shooting.
The boy’s parents filed a federal lawsuit against Gelhaus and Sonoma County seeking unspecified damages.

Rob- Russel from Kansas sent a link to us to a post from Canada’s National Firearms Association

Help needed. In aid of an Ontario Court case where the crown is taking issue with the number of firearms held by an individual (over 50), I am in urgent need of photographs of Canadian gun rooms/collections. While it is helpful if the person(s) providing such photos was willing to identify him or herself, it is not strictly necessary. The defence wants to demonstrate to the court that it is not unusual for some firearms collectors to own large numbers of firearms. If you can take a few photos of your gun room/collection to aid in this effort, please send them directly to me at: Sheldon_Clare@shaw.ca Neither the owner nor the firearms need to be identified – the point is to demonstrate that there is widespread ownership of large numbers of firearms in Canada.
The time frame is urgent as this will be in court in by January 15.
Sheldon Clare,
Canada’s National Firearms Association

Hang on everybody, we’ll be right back after this and close out the show.

Seg 3 Interview with Valinda Rowe, spokesperson for Illinois Carry
Congratulations on CCW to Illinois and Gun stores to Chicago
You’ve been in this struggle for many years. How did it start?
Bring us up to date.
CCL licenses can now be applied for in Illinois, but the law is let’s just say a little less than clear. Is there an easy way to find out where someone who is able to get a CCL can and can’t do?
Cook county thought they would inconvenience gun owners, but they also inconvenience gun owners in every legislative district.
Can you talk a little bit about IGOLD, what it is and why it is more important than ever?
How can gun owners in Illinois learn about Illinois Carry?
The process of application and 16 hours of training.
$150 in application fees.
Do instructors already have their license?
How much does training cost? About $100 for concealed carry. Another $100 for the NRA basic handgun safety course.
Read more about Illinois Carry at http://www.illinoiscarry.com/

Record with Jeff Knox, director of the Firearms Coalition
Schools- walk through for the unthinkable
Is the front and back entrance to campus alarmed?
Can you secure the door?
Can you summon help?
Can you stop people from seeing into the room?
Has the staff discussed how they should respond?
Has the staff ever exorcised their plan?
If the windows are large or low set, do the windows remain a barrier after being shot?
A large and low set window is a locked door where any bullet acts as the key!
Are there video feeds so that hallways can be seen from a central office and/or remote police station?
Are there armed responders on campus?
Are there armed responders in the neighborhood?
Have the armed first responders had an annual drill on campus just like a fire drill?
See more of Jeff at http://www.firearmscoalition.org/
and at http://www.wnd.com/author/jknox/
Host asks for comments before moving on.
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Segment 4 DGUs and Show close
The DGU last Friday in Vista California-
After talking to the restaurant owner who shot two thieves, the first news reports were inaccurate. The two thieves got out of prison in mid-December. They had already robbed two other stores at gunpoint before they entered this restaurant. The employees of the other stores were not armed. The thieves discharged their weapons in one case to make the clerk open the cash drawer. This time was different.

I met with the employees and some of the customers who were in the restaurant during the robbery. The thieves entered the rear of the restaurant through a rear door that is normally locked. They gained entry by waiting until one of the employees left and then threatened the employee at gunpoint to let them in. The thieves next confronted the owner’s wife who was in the kitchen. The tone of her voice was enough to make the owner suspicious, and he retrieved his firearm. The firearm was a 45 loaded with 8 rounds.

The owner was reluctant to shoot, and yelled for the thieves to drop their guns. They turned toward him rather than drop their weapons, so he fired. They ran. He fired again as they pointed their weapons behind them. Four of his eight rounds hit, though one was a through shot that remained on premises.

The owner did not want to be recorded. He did want to go shooting. I’ll try again when we get back from shot.

Any extra short topics or humor
Listener e-mail discussion

Paul: We have Politics and Guns Podcast download applications out on Amazon for Android and I-phone is coming.

Rob: You can contact the show by e-mail.  Paul@politics and guns.com, Toby, Sticks, Rob, Susan, or Onair to reach all of us.  Call 605-215-1438 to hear your voice on the air!
Paul: That’s 605- 215- 1438 and operators are standing by.

Paul:Roadgunner’s Mag 40 class in Conway, Arkansas at Shoot House USA is scheduled for May 15th thru 18th 2014  Registration is open.

Also please check out the shooters club by Bob Mayne and Ben Branam.  For $75.00 a year you get 24/7 access to some fantastic training and audio podcasts that you can’t get anywhere else.  Listen to other podcasts on the Gun Rights Radio Network, the Crusader Podcast Network, and give Roadgunner a listen.

Rob: Join the National Rifle Association, Second Amendment Foundation, Gun Owners of America and Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership.  Joining two makes you a hero.  Supporting all four makes you a super hero.  Not belonging to any of them means you’re a chump.

Paul: Join your local civil rights group like the New Jersey Second Amendment Society, Arizona Citizens Defense League,Michigan Gun Owners , Michigan Open Carry, and Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners, Minnesota Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance, Texas Firearms Freedom,Texas State Rifle Association. Tennessee Firearms Association, Connecticut Citizens Defense League

Paul, we will probably change the show name.  Any thoughts?

Paul: That wraps up another episode of Politics and Guns. Until the mid-week show from SHOT…
Rob, stay safe,
Paul, be aware,
Rob, and we’ll see you down the road.