Episode 421 – Amanda Suffecool and Paul Martin

Full Episode Download: http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/Episode20421.mp3

1- Open and Personal News Segment

2- News Segment

3- Interview Segment 1: Guest : Amanda Suffecool part 1

4- Interview Segment 2: Guest : Amanda Suffecool Part 2

5 – Interview Segment 3 : Guest : Paul Martin – Part 1

6 – Interview Segment 4: Guest : Paul Martin – Part 2

7- DGU Segment:

8- Email and Show Close:


1- Introduction

Paul: Welcome to the polite society podcast powered by the Firearms Policy Coalition recorded on Sunday September 2nd 2017, I’m Paul Lathrop

Rob: I’m Rob Morse and on tonight’s show we will talk with Amanda Suffecool about the concealed carry fashion shows she’s put on.

John: I’m John Richardson, and we’ll talk about the efforts of Chicago to prevent a gun store from opening.

Tracy Thronburg: I’m Tracy Thronburg and tonight we’ll talk with Paul Martin about prepping.. so climb aboard

Rob: strap in

John : and hang on!

Paul:  episode 421 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.

Show intro music.


Personal news from each participant (when you are done with your segment please ask the next person what has been up with them)


Rob- I read the Wren decision out of the DC appeals court. I recorded David Cole for Self-Defense Gun Stories. I carried every day. We dodged a hurricane, so it is still a little wet to go to the range. I did some dry practice indoors.


John- My week has had dual highlights. First, I had dinner – in person, mind you – with Paul on Wednesday as he was driving through with a load. Then, my granddaughter Olivia spent the weekend with us which is always a treat. I also attended the Greensboro, NC gun show with my son-in-law and his dad. My biggest take-away is that AR prices are way down – Ruger AR-556s for as low as $449 – and that the new short barreled firearms from Mossberg and Remington are big hits.


Tracy- I went to Camp Gladiator five days this week. I gave a retired husband and wife a lesson on Thursday night, where they quickly learned that good gear choices can make or break a private lesson, and I worked as the chief range safety officer at Shady Oaks Gun Range today in Cedar Park. I’m still on the lookout for a reliable source for gas for my Denali.




Promo about upcoming training classes here.

Promo about patches


2- News 1


So Let It Be Written So Let It Be Done.

In July 2010, R. Joseph Franzese submitted an application for a business license. He proposed opening a gun shop called Second Amendment Arms (SAA). Franzese bought the property advertised as commercial property, but the city now claims it was not zoned as commercial. He contends the city will block a gun shop, no matter where it’s located. The Second Amendment Foundation became Franzese’s ally and backed a case challenging a ban of firearms sales within city limits. A federal court judge in Illinois denied a City of Chicago motion for summary judgment and refused to dismiss the case. Robert M. Dow, Jr., U.S. District Court Judge set Sept. 28 as the next date to discuss damages for the plaintiff in Second Amendment Arms v. City of Chicago.

Alan Gottlieb, SAF founder and Executive Vice President, said “The City of Chicago under Rahm Emanuel is trying to be too clever by half. We would have thought by now that they would have ceased this pattern of spending tens of thousands of taxpayer dollars on stubborn litigation, but the city seems determined to be dragged kicking and screaming into compliance with the Second Amendment. Since losing its gun ban fight in the Supreme Court’s 2010 McDonald ruling. Chicago has been digging its heels in deeper and deeper, throwing every kind of legal roadblock it could in an effort to delay what seems inevitable. The city has got to follow the law and the constitution, and as long as they keep fighting, we’ll keep suing. That’s what winning firearms freedom one lawsuit at a time is all about.”


John – What Chicago is engaging in is a form of “red-lining”. The use of zoning to keep out legal business. It was originally used to keep African Americans out of certain neighborhoods because mortgage companies wouldn’t lend to them.


Rob- I agree, John.  This is a civil rights violation and it has been going on for a very long time. Why is the city’s bigotry allowed to stand?  The city demands live fire before it will grant a permit.  A judge should demand that the city open police ranges to civilian use until a private company stands up.


Gary –


So, you think you have Constitutional Carry?

If you are not familiar with the work of John Lott, you are missing out on some valuable information.  His Crime Prevention Research Center published an article addressing limitations on Constitutional Carry in March of 2016. https://crimeresearch.org/2016/03/the-very-real-limits-on-constitutional-carry/


The focus of the article is the federal Gun Free School Zones Act.  This legislation was originally introduced by Senator Joe Biden and signed into law by President George H. W. Bush in 1990.  In 1995 this law was struck down by the U.S. Supreme Court.  This was a landmark decision.  It was the first time in over 50 years that the Supreme Court placed limits on Congress’ ability to legislate under the Commerce Clause.  In 1996, Congress massaged the language and reenacted this unconstitutional statute.


This statute criminalizes the possession of a firearm within 1,000 feet of the boundary of a school.  There are exceptions to this rule.  Unloaded firearms that are in locked containers in a vehicle are exempted.  Private property within 1,000 feet of the school boundary but not part of school grounds is also an exception.  Additionally, persons licensed to carry may be exempt.  However, you must have a license issued by the state in which the school district resides.


If you live in a Constitutional Carry state and you do not possess a state-issued license, you have a problem.  You are committing a crime if you find yourself carrying a firearm within 1,000 feet of a school boundary.  Dr. Lott’s article points out the difficulty of even driving across a typical city without violating this law.  Even if you are unaware of the school tucked back in the woods two streets to the east of you, you are eligible for a five-year, all expenses paid prison term and a $5,000 fine.  Even gun-friendly states have anti-gun politicians and prosecutors in their larger cities.


Congressman Ron Paul introduced legislation to repeal the GFSZA on three separate occasions.  His bills never made it out of committee.  Can you say national reciprocity?  The more things change, the more things stay the same.  Gun control is about control, not guns.


Rob- I used to open carry in California.  You had to know where every school was located.

Belle- How is this enforced?


Truckin’ through Wisconsin

Truck driver Guy Smith of Wisconsin pulled into a weigh station Kenosha County in June of 2016.  He then found himself charged with carrying a concealed weapon after his revolver was seen in the cab of his truck.  Of course, they confiscated his property.  Mr. Smith does not possess a concealed weapons permit.  


Smith’s defense attorney, John Monroe, prepared two theories to defend his client against these allegations.  The first defense is as simple as it gets.  In 2011 Wisconsin passed a law making it legal to have loaded handguns in vehicles.  A revolver is a handgun, isn’t it?


To paraphrase, Monroe said the charge never should have been filed because the the law allows handguns in cars to be unencased and loaded.  This seems pretty clear, doesn’t it?  But the prosecutor intended to take this case to trial.  The prosecutor actually stated that the law could not mean what it said because it would invalidate concealed carry law.  The judge in the case corrected him by stating that it would “in cars.”  Again, this seems like common sense stuff.  That is true unless you are a prosecutor with an axe to grind against citizens arming themselves.


The second defense theory Monroe devised centered around Castle Doctrine.  Wisconsin, and most other states, allow the use of firearms in their home, business or vehicle.  As Mr. Smith’s truck provides transportation, a livelihood and lodging all three elements of a castle exist.  


When prosecutor Thomas Binger learned of the defense Monroe planned to present at trial, he asked for a postponement.  Presumably this was to give the State more time to prepare.


On August 28, just before the date of trial, the State dismissed all charges against Mr. Smith.  Monroe pointedly stated they were not informed of this dismissal until the defense had been prepared and they traveled to Kenosha.  As Dean Weingarten of Gun Watch stated, this sounds like a case of punishment by process.  Was there ever an intention of going to trial with this?  Or, was Mr. Smith just being railroaded by a powerful government?


After the dismissal, Mr. Smith said, “I’m just a trucker trying to stay alive.  I want my gun back and I don’t want a record, and I’m not paying a fine.  I didn’t do anything wrong.”  Well done, Mr. Smith.  Perhaps we need a remake of Mr. Smith Goes to Washington?




Paul – Just to make sure that all our listeners are aware that there are no federal laws that prohibit carrying in a commercial vehicle. It also reminds me of my own situation

John – Guy Smith still has his legal bills. The prosecutor was trying to drag it out to force Mr. Smith to plead to a lesser charge because of the uncertainty involved.

Gary – ACLDN

Rob- Guilty of contempt of prosecutor.

Belle- If they don’t pay, they should provide enough educational material to help keep you out of trouble.


Gun Quotes-  A free people [claim] their rights as derived from the laws of nature, and not as the gift of their chief magistrate. Thomas Jefferson


Hang on everybody, we’ll be back with our guest (Name).



3- Interview 1

Amanda Suffecool

Eye on the target radio http://www.eyeonthetargetradio.com/

Realize FAC http://www.realizefac.com/


The NRA said this was the first fashion show to highlight concealed carry.  Maybe it was the first for them, but you’ve done this before.

Preppers ball

Friends of NRA

You wrote the book on it.


What was your idea in putting on a fashion show for concealed carriers?

I like it because it shows we’re normal.

Hi, this is us.  Look at us.  We look like you.

News coverage was great.

It is fashion news.

You’re talking about how to hide guns.

One model was carrying four concealed firearms.

We’re commonplace.

Amanda wrote the book on building your own fashion show.  A DVD is also available so you are not starting from our experience.

Contact Amanda with your lessons learned from your fashion show.


Who should consider putting on a fashion show?  NRA meetings, NRA clubs, Women’s shooting leagues for outreach and fundraising.




American shooter magazine

A group in NY

We use real people, and plastic guns.

My cousin produces fashion shows, so I learned from her.

The NRA hired me to consult with them.  They got things done.  We didn’t meet the models until a few hours before the show.

Pictures from the show including “Fabio”.



4- Interview 2 Paul Martin



Paul, emphasize the little things you solve once you prep.  Sprains.  Cuts. power outage.  Knowing when to not enter the water.


Rob- I have flood insurance.

What is the name of your you-tube channel?




5- DGUs (at beginning) These discussions are NOT legal advice. Some of us are trainers, but this is not formal training and YOU NEED formal training. The Defensive Gun Use segment is intended as information, NOT as training. As always the opinions of the hosts are only their own opinions and not those of any sponsors or other affiliations.


Hurricane Harvey Mischief

As we have seen this week, while thousands were fleeing Hurricane Harvey, the low lifes came out to “play”.  About an hour after the storm made landfall, police in Corpus Christi responded to a call and found a man with a gunshot wound in the head.

It appeared that the man tried to break into the home and the armed homeowner defended himself.  The man was coherent and was transported to the local hospital.

In a second incident near Houston a few hours later, a home invader was shot and killed by the homeowner.  Both incidents were still under investigation.

Rob-  Low light.  You need a flashlight and a cell phone.


Tracy: My doors are locked for YOUR protection.

Belle- low light practice is more important than people give it credit for. How often is it dark? About half the time? Why wouldn’t you practice that skill?

John – I like the attitude of the sheriff of Ft. Bend Cty, TX https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2017/09/03/texas-sheriff-warns-reminds-looters-we-believe-in-the-second-amendment-n2376617

Belle Night sight can be a distraction too. Low light shooting is likely to be close, because of the diminished ability to see anyway. Practice your point shooting or as Marty teaches, your Default Stance and you’ll develop the necessary skill.


Evil Roy shares a story

Fans of SASS or Cowboy Action Shooting know Gene Pearcey by his SASS moniker of Evil Roy.  He recently posted this story.

Here’s a self-defense story from a friend. It demonstrates the value of awareness, presence of mind, and making other members of you family familiar and proficient with available firearms. Being a cool head doesn’t hurt either.

My friend stops at convenience store on the way back from the lake. His shorts are wet so he takes his small pistol out of his pocket and puts it the door pocket. He tells his wife the 1911 is in the center console and goes inside. A small car pulls up alongside and a guy gets out. The wind blows his shirt up exposing a weapon. The wife is not sure if it is a knife or gun but she is alerted. My friend comes back to the Suburban and opens the rear doors and reaches for the cooler. He turns around to see the guy standing very close looking very tense, wild eyed and agitated. Bad things are about to happen. Suddenly he gets very still and very slowly lowers his hands to his side and makes some idiot remark about looking for gas. My friend looks over his shoulder and sees his wife aiming a very shiny 1911 through the truck at the guys head with the safety off from the passenger’s seat. Guy very slowly mutters some nonsense and leaves. The wife did not say a word through the entire encounter. Lots to learn from this incident.

Rob- Teamwork is insanely effective.

Belle- Great example of why it’s important to be aware of pre-attack indicators.


Wrong ATM

Sierra McFatridge was outside getting her dog when she heard the crack of gunfire and saw a robber falling right in front of her.   She said, “I didn’t know where the shot came from and then he was right there in front of me.”

A 51 year-old man had just visited the local ATM, withdrawn cash and was walking home when the robber hit him in the head.  The robber had a rock.  His intended victim had a gun.

The thug got away but a neighbor saw a woman in the get-away car and gave the license plate number to police.

Police said the victim was transported to the hospital with non-life threatening injuries.  Once again the case was still under investigation.

Rob- The victim was walking with his son.

Gary- Grandma was robbed.


Man hold suspect at gunpoint until police arrive

In South Carolina, a deputy was serving a warrant for car theft when Christopher Cravets spotted the officer and ran from the scene.  He was wanted on an armed robbery charge. The deputy called for backup and multiple agencies responded.  The manhunt was on.

Charles Belcher had gone to visit his girlfriend in the area and she informed him of the ongoing manhunt.  He retrieved his gun from his truck and went back inside.

He then went outside to check the property.  He spotted Cravets hiding in the back of an Explorer in a carport on the property.  He ordered the man out of the SUV and to lay face down on the ground.  He then held him at gunpoint until the police arrived.

“The only thing I was worried about is if he had a gun and if he was going to try to shoot me,” Belcher added.


We post each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com  Please take a minute and share them with a friend.



6- E-mail, blog notes, and show close


Listener e-mail discussion


Text message #1


Greetings all! Nice to have all the new voices on the show. All the best to Rachel in her new endeavor. I am getting a motorcycle and am wondering what others do who are disarmed at work. Thanks in advance. Also, even though I am disarmed at work , the vehicle I drive is 80,000 pounds. How many grains is that you math people!


Al the Iron Range trucker


560 million grains!



Email from Dr Sean


Ok folks I have tried to stay out of the 1911 “discussion” but….allow me to go back a few episodes.  You had a guest who was trying to decide between a Springfield EMP and the range officer.  I own both and would suggest either or both for anyone.  The EMP is nice for CCW when you have light clothes or need deeper concealment.  The range officer is great to have a full size 1911 on your hip.  Buy both and you can choose each day.  They feel the same in your hand and function exactly the same.  The only difference is the recoil.


ok Paul I have to agree with you on wanting a 64 1/2 Mustang (I would love one too) but anytime we compare cars and guns we run into problems.  So if we are going to compare a 64 1/2 mustang and a new car the difference we see is a huge increase in government regulation and safety features as well as digitalization.  So I’m afraid you would have to compare the 1911 to a “smart gun” in that comparison.  I don’t think any of us want a smart gun!!  

I’ll agree with Belle “1911 finest handgun known to man”, but I also like to take my wife’s XD mod2 out for some target shooting too.  She carries hers all the time and loves it.

All in all, carry what you practice with, practice and get training often and above all else POGO!!

Thanks for all you do and see you at GRPC.

Dr. Sean


Sean D. Brodale DO


Barton carries in his truck!


Hey crew,

It has been 7 years since I have had interaction with the DOT but today was my lucky day. The Officer approached from the passenger side and asked if we could pull off into the truck stop parking lot a few blocks up. For Paul’s benefit we do 99%of our Excavation work in Barron county WI so we don’t see scales ever. Before he left I informed the officer of my Glock 22 as I openly carry. When we got to the parking lot and he started the inspection he and I had a wonderful chat about firearms as he cited me for a non approved air line splice and let the few other things go with a warning provided they are fixed within 15 days. Be polite with officers and do what they say always but especially when armed. This gentleman was polite as we chatted about guns walking around the truck and trailer looking at the needed repairs. Enjoy your night!


Barton in  Wisconsin



Jake writes in about safeties on firearms


I understand where he is coming from, but I have to disagree with Paul on manual safeties on concealed carry firearms.  I have carried for years with a fullsize with no manual safety and a subcompact with manual safety (depending on the season, what I’m wearing, and the required level of concealment).  If you ever observe me when shooting, you will notice on every gun, even those without when I draw or otherwise prepare to fire, my thumb swipes downwards on the left side of my gun as if disengaging a safety, and ends in a proper shooting grip.  On guns without safeties, it doesn’t cost me anything in terms of time or mental effort, and of course it’s necessary on guns without safeties.


I’m beginning to change my mind on the usefulness of safeties and DA/SA guns purely for additional safety when reholstering.  Reholstering is the most dangerous gun handling task we commonly do, and a stray string from a sweatshirt, piece of brass, rock, fold of a t-shirt, or any number of other things could get stuck inside the holster or trigger guard on holstering and cause an accidental discharge.  With a hamer-down DA/SA gun, you can keep your thumb on the rear of the hammer so you feel it begin to move if the trigger is pressed by anything, and with a gun with a safety, you can physically stop the trigger from moving.  If I want to carry with the safety off, I can toggle the safety on, holster, then withdraw just far enough to disengage the safety before reholstering.  Lately, though, I just keep the safety on – I instinctively disengage it on drawing anyway.


Just my $0.02.

Jake (Formerly from Iowa)


Belle- 1911s are…The Finest Handgun Known to Man? Too much of a broken record?

Tracy- 2011s are..TOO BIG FOR MY HAND.

Rob- Jake, I have the same habit.

John – http://www.guns.com/2015/07/13/the-gadget-for-glocks-a-safer-way-to-re-holster-video/



Dr Sean writes in again


Just wanted to thank Tim Crosnoe for his elaboration of natural point of aim as it is sometimes talked about in pistol shooting.  I had begun to wonder how NPOA could be used in pistol shooting as the shoulders are mostly muscular joints.  This seemed contradictory to the NPOA we learn at Appleseed which takes the muscles out and relies on the sling and bones to get an NPOA.  It’s nice to know that I’m not the only one thinking about NPOA as it is different in pistol shooting vs rifle shooting.  Thanks to Tim

Dr. Sean

Sean D. Brodale DO


Rob- We use NPOA in target shooting a lot.

Belle- NPOA in pistol is similar to the default stance


Paul: Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?


Rob- I completed my series called “Government Fees Discourage Concealed Carry.”  In shall issue states, our concealed carry laws and fees disarmed 8 million of us.  I also asked if “Gun Laws are Really Common Sense..or More of the Same Stupid Stuff?” Do these regulations disarm criminals or disarm honest gun owners?  Do they do more harm than good?


That and more are up at Clash Daily, at Ammoland, and at my blog slow facts dot wordpress dot com.  John, tell us what’s new at your blog no lawyers only guns and money?


For those who like a little bit of history with their firearms, I did a post on a lesser known trench gun, the Remington 10, used by the American army in World War One. Only about 3,500 of these bottom ejecting pump shotguns were made. They also came with a 17” bayonet. Moving from the old to the new, Century Arms released a product safety warning regarding their Canik line of 9mm pistols. Owners are warned that repeated dropping of the pistol could damage internal parts. Century will release a severe duty upgrade by Sept 8th.


That and more is at only guns and money dot blogspot dot com.


We need people to donate bandwidth at GRPC


(How do you donate bandwidth?)


Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast.  I’d like to thank (Amanda Suffecool and Paul Martin for joining us today.  So for Amy, Tracy, Belle, Jae, Dana, Douglas, Gary, John, Rachel, Susan, Craig, and Rob,

(Paul, stop talking now)


Rob: Until the next time…

Gary: stay safe,

Tracy: be aware,

John: and we’ll see you down the road.


(after show close) How could we have made this episode better?


(DO NOT READ)Look at the shooters club by Bob Mayne and Ben Branam.  For $75.00 a year, $6.25 a month, you get 24/7 access to some fantastic training and audio podcasts that you can’t get anywhere else.  Subscribing from the link in our show notes helps Bob and Ben as well as helps us here at the Polite Society Podcast.


Episode 350 – Back From GRPC


Full Episode Download: http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/350.mp3

Open and Personal News Segment:

News Segment 1:

News Segment 2:

Interview Segment 1: Guests Tina Maldonado and Brittany Sutton

DGU Segment:

Email and Show Close:



“An armed society is a polite society.. and this is the Polite Society Podcast where we support and report on civilian self-defense.”

Paul: Welcome to episode 350 of the polite society podcast presented by the Firearms Policy Coalition recorded on Sunday October 11th 2015, I’m Paul Lathrop

Rob: I’m Rob Morse and on tonight’s show we will talk about the murders at Umpqua Community College .

John: I’m John Richardson, and we’ll talk with

Tina Maldonado and Brittany Sutton about Texas students for concealed carry.

Gary: I’m Gary Daugherty and in one of our DGU’s  we talk about a Houston criminal that made a very poor choice in the victim selection process. so climb aboard

Rob: strap in

John : and hang on!

Paul:  episode 350 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.

Show intro music.


Seg 1- Personal news from each participant (when you are done with your segment please ask the next person what has been up with them)

Rob- I carried at GRPC.  I had an additional adventure on the way home because I had a gun.  Here is a pro-tip for traveling with a gun.  Carrying a gun only adds a few minutes to your travel time at the airline counter, but it could add one problem.  You CAN NOT be late at the airport, not even by one minute, if you’re carrying a gun in your bag.  There are hard cut-off times for checking a bag before your flight.


You can’t dash to the gate and then check your bag as you walk down the boarding ramp.  We have to check our bags at the counter if we’re flying with a gun.    I missed my flights so I had to rent a car and drive the last hundred miles.


One of the highlights of the trip was to meet AWR Hawkins.  He has been writing a lot these days.  I also got to talk with Jim Irvine.  One of my disappointments was the people who did NOT go to GRPC.  Come on, guys.  Go to Tampa and stop making excuses.  Really, I lost respect for some people who didn’t go to the conference.


You know we have to shout out a thank you.  You know that, don’t you?  Guys?  Who do we owe a thank you?


I was on Mark Walter’s Armed American Radio and on Bill Frady’s Lock and Load Radio program a couple of times.  We have to tell them that we’ll hold a seat in the front row for them in Tampa.


I’ve also stopped carrying concealed in Louisiana.  I carried as a non-resident because I had nonresident reciprocity from my licenses in other states.  Those licenses are not valid for carry in Louisiana now that I’m a Louisiana resident.  I’m applying for my new permit and going unarmed.. unless I go to Texas, where I can carry again.  Don’t you all feel safer?!


I made room reservations for nra convention in May.


I have some training coming up.  I’ll be a line coach with Jeff and Robyn Street in Naples Florida on October 24th.  They are having a glock range day at the LouLand Gun Club.  The entry fee is $5, and they have loaner guns.  If you’re on the South West coast of Florida and are free on Saturday, October 24th, you should look into it.  Maybe you have a friend who talked about self-defense.  Look for glock range day at step by step gun training in Naples, Florida.


John – I spent yesterday morning at the local gun show working the Grass Roots North Carolina booth. We got a number of people to sign our petition saying no more gun control at the Federal level. It will be delivered to our US Senators and Congressmen. While at the show, I bought enough ammo that Hillary Clinton would say I need a license to purchase – if she had her way.


I have talked to a number of people about attending the next GRPC in Tampa including fellow GRNC volunteers. I think this past GRPC in Phoenix had to rank as one of the best. I talked to more activists than ever before from a number of states. I credit the podcast for this as I was more visible and people sought me out. The other thing I enjoyed about this GRPC is that I finally got to meet Gary and Rachel in person. It’s one thing meeting a person over the Internet, it is another to meet them in person.


Gary – What training do you have coming up?

We have a weekday evening ILFCCL class coming up October 19-22 it will be four evenings from 6-10pm.

I had to block a friend on Facebook for posting a name calling article to me. That really makes me sad, when someone reverts to name calling they are admitting they have lost the argument. Please try to avoid this in your conversations with the anti-gun crowd. This brings me to this post on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/CourageCampaign/photos/a.164423892567.119987.7364882567/10153300704932568/?type=3 This is a post about the concealed carry school ban in California. The horrible things people are saying to each other, from both sides of the argument, are despicable. Please remember we are a polite society. Aside from that, someone posted “…no armed bystander has ever stopped a mass shooting. Ever.” and it got 8 thumbs up. There were also several posts about how a concealed carriers will just start wild west shoot outs with the bad guys and cause more carnage and kill innocents. I just want to say with no animus and only love in my heart, if you believe this you are flat out wrong.


I and most concealed carriers take carrying a self defense tool as seriously as most people do driving a car or surgeons do when operating on people. If you think me being in your proximity while I am carrying a concealed firearm puts you in more danger again you are just wrong.


Oh, yah GRPC…the water slide was awesome. Seriously, amazing, got to meet so many positive minded gun rights people that it recharged my energy to do whatever I can in my own small way to support gun rights. Take your time and watch all of the video that we recorded at GRPC, I promise something from the speakers or one of our exclusive interviews will make you say to yourself, “Wow, that was interesting or I hadn’t thought of that.” The listeners have been so helpful in the past I’m reaching out to them again. I have a student that is interested in switching to a shoulder holster for the winter and since it’s been over 20 years since I did bodyguard work and wore a shoulder holster under a suit I’m sure things have changed, so if anybody out there is currently using a shoulder holster please share your experiences with us at OnAir@PoliticsandGuns.com Sig P938


Paul – WOW what a GRPC in Phoenix. Had a great time while we were down there and an amazing trip back. Highlight of my time down there had to be Dave Workman giving us a little grief and then jumping on the mic after finding out we were on the air and coming through like a trooper. Also getting Alan Gottlieb (my personal hero in the gun rights arena) on the air.

Highlight of the trip down was a tie between meeting Laura Carno for lunch and taking US 160 just east of Pagosa Springs Colorado. Really experienced truckers that spend a lot of time in the west or southwest will know the reference to Wolf Creek Pass, made famous in the C.W. McCall song. It is a BEAUTIFUL drive… in a car… I can only imagine what a pain in the butt it is in a truck.

The Trip back was highlighted by a stop for breakfast at the Shooters Grill in Rifle colorado. A few things about this stop, first there isn’t any truck parking close by. the nearest truck parking is about a mile and a half away at a rest area.  Secondly the food is REALLY good. I was expecting that they were getting business off of the gimmick of the staff open carrying, but I was pleasantly surprised!  Yes, our waiter was open carrying (he carried an XD) and was super attentive to us. Another surprise about Rifle is that of the 3 cafe’s that were on Main street 2 were open for breakfast and of the 3, two had pro gun signage up. Also there were 2 ummm marijuana dispensaries and both had very clear no guns allowed signs.


Was on the GunBlog Variety Cast this past  week, thanks to Sean for asking me to come on and doing a masterful job of editing my ramblings. We talked GRPC and why more people should be there.




Seg 2- News


UCC shooting

The members of the Polite Society Podcast would like to extend our sincere condolences to the family, friends and community of the nine victims off the Umpqua Community College tragedy. Trapped by madness and religious hatred and bigotry, the students and staff of UCC paid a fierce price in what the school administration had declared as a gun-free zone. Not even the school’s single security guard was allowed a firearm to preserve the fantasy of an unarmed oasis.  

Obama didn’t wait for the bleeding to stop before he rushed before his cameras. In twelve minutes of rambling petulence, he expressed his frustrations with his six years of gun-control failures. Referring to himself 28 times, much more than twice a minute, he personalized the gun-control debate, holding it as a personal affront that his desires had not been granted. He trotted out the usual non-sensical “common sense” demands, backed by discredited studies, half-truths and outright lies. And he pledged to politicize the tragedy even further and push the usual gun banner’s dreams – NONE of which would have prevented the murders.

Obama targeted a unnamed, sinister, shadowy organization that was wholly responsible for frustrating his whims. His willing minions in the media were quick to take up the boogeyman fallacy. More than a few people who should have known better responded and demanded that the NRA be labeled as a terrorist organization. No mention was made of the millions of people that actually make up, support and guide the NRA.


It’s hard to believe this latest divisive distraction from his collapsing presidency will go anywhere legislatively. The Congress is in relatively friendly hands, even if Boehner and McConnell roll over once more for old times sake. The danger is in Obama’s lawless and unConstitutional executive actions.  The one phone and pen action that has been floated will do absolutely nothing to affect violent crime, other than possibly criminalizing some wives for selling their late husband’s firearm collection.

What the Obama tantrum did is identify his desired end state for the gun “problem.”  He favors the British and Australian models of gun control. Have no doubt those models mean draconian bans on nearly every firearm in private hands, door to door confiscation, mass destruction, and the centralization of all arms and power in the hands of the government. This, Mr President, we will resist.  

It’s going to be a long, difficult wait until the Twentieth of January, 2017.  


Comments:  Okay – I’m outta here. The Princess is back.  Thanks again

How’s the tone for the above rant?  OK, Dan.


-john – I want to point out the killer passed background checks.


Paul -There were widespread protests in Roseburg, Oregon when the president came to visit.  Roseburg is a deeply red working class town.  The president and the media were widely resented as using the town’s tragedy for their personal profit.


Rob- I want to talk about gun control.  Oregon has mandatory firearms registration.  The murderer registered his firearms.  Oregon has mandatory background checks.  The murderer passed those background checks.  The school campus is restricted as a gun free zone, and honest students were disarmed as the murderer went to a gun-free zone.  Oregon is a gun control paradise, and the state is ranked 18th out of 50 by the Brady campaign because of its strict gun control laws.  Obama had to speak out quickly.  Not because he has a solution, but because his policies failed so miserably and he needed to distract the public from noticing his failure.


As to the news media, they have been horribly corrupt in their coverage.  Here is a thought experiment for you. Do you think the media would be chanting for more “gun-free zones” if the murderers we’ve seen this last year were attacking newsrooms rather than schools? I think the newsies would start carrying at work.  The CNN studios in New York had armed guards the day after the Charlie Hebdo murders in France. and they do today as well.  They have armed security every day.. yet they say we should put our children in disarmed schools.. and blame the National Rifle Association even though the NRA has begged for armed school guards.


Open comment- If gun free zones are such a good idea, then start with the White House.


-John – I will say that some Republican presidential candidates responded appropriately. I want to mention Bobby Jindal and Ben Carson in particular. Jindal asked where the father was and Carson asked why more people didn’t fight back.


Rob- Did you hear where 22 people were stabbed when a 16-year-old boy went on a  rampage.  It happened in Pennsylvania.. in a gun-free school zone.


Hate to the NRA

Top strategists in the Democrat party have decided this is the year to attack gun owners.  We’ve heard several outbursts from politicians condemning honorable gun owners and the National Rifle Association after this last public murder.

  • Hillary Clinton said “You know, the NRA’s position reminds me of negotiating with the Iranians or the Communists. You know there is no possible discussion and it’s for political purposes.”
  • President Obama asked America’s gun owners ..to think about whether your views are properly being represented by the organization that suggests it’s speaking for them.
  • Bernie Sanders said “we have got to come together on common sense approaches.. to ban semi-automatic assault weapons, guns which have no other purpose but to kill people.”
  • The Chicago Sun Times says every politician in washington should pass a law making it illegal to sell a gun online or at a gun show to anybody who is a convicted felon, repeat domestic abuser or seriously mentally ill.  How unreasonable would that be?

Obviously the Chicago Sun Times and leading democrats don’t know existing firearms laws that already make those transfers illegal.  They don’t know how mass murderers actually get their guns.. or they don’t care, because they only need to sell voters and advertisers, not solve a real problem.


Gary?  open comment-  The NRA is the only organization that gets blamed for things its members never do.

  • John – I don’t have a problem with neg. like the Iranians. They got the bomb and the USA got nada.


Rob- I called the NRA and asked them how NRA membership numbers look.  In particular, I asked the membership office in Fairfax, Virginia  if people were calling up and cancelling their memberships.  They aren’t.  The rate of new memberships and renewals is up, but they have noticed a particular surge in new lifetime memberships.  Life memberships are usually a thousand dollars, but the NRA runs a promotion at each annual meeting where they drop the rates.  You can become a life member, an endowment, patron or benefactor member.


A friend of mine in New York City is a photographer.  She doesn’t own a gun, but after hearing the progressive politicians dump hate gun owners and the NRA, she became a member.


John- Now your friend gets daily e-mails from Fairfax.   


CF- She doesn’t have to get them if she doesn’t want them. The NRA is EXTRAORDINARILY good about respecting their members desires. My Father bitched and moaned until I talked to the NRA for him. They immediately took him off all their mailing lists. This forced my Dad to find something else to bitch and moan about. 😉


Do Non-Badged Citizens With Guns Ever Stop Mass Shootings?
In his televised fit only hours after the UCC murders, Obama dismissively asked if more guns actually reduce crime? Eugene Volokh, of the Volokh Conspiracy blog, answers definatively: Yes they do!


Professor Volokh cites ten times where a civilian with a gun stopped a mass shooting.  Of course, such instances are relatively rare, as the diseased mass killer usually chooses places where he will not be restrained in his sick fantasy. Areas like gun-free zones. As an example, the Aurora theater killer deliberately bypassed nine closer venues and choose a smaller movie house – because it was the one protected by a gun-free zone sign.   

It seems the only logical way to reduce these mass killings is to eliminate gun-free zones.   


Rob- I’ve written about this.  John has written about the failures of gun control.

Gary- Massad Ayoob has written about this. He references an article that talks about a dozen cases where a concealed carriers stopped mass shootings.  It is good to see other journalists weigh in.


-John – I love what Mas calls GFZs – hunting preserves for psychopaths.


Cuomo Throws an Anti-Gun Tantrum

Speaking of petulant tantrums, New York Governor Cuomo threw a beaut at the funeral of an ex-aide. His former aide and friend was shot at an early morning party in the Bronx. Instead of eulogizing his friend, the rabidly anti-gun Governor of New York City and Albany delivered a political anti-gun stump speech. He demanded the Democrats shut down the nation’s government until the gun control laws that are not working in New York are legislated nation-wide.   


We certainly agree with Cuomo’s demand to shut down the non-essential portions of the federal government. However, the laws that the citizens of his state are roundly ignoring are nothing we could tolerate under our Constitutionally guaranteed Rights. Better try again, Stumpy.    


Ronald Reagan Carried a Gun While President
Another President had very different ideas about personal gun possession and use. Brian Meltzer, author of the new book The President’s Shadow, reports that President Reagan carried a weapon in a bag or briefcase with him after the assassination attempt. A Secret Service agent revealed this info to Meltzer while he was researching the book.  

Looks like the nickname Ronnie Raygun was a little bit closer to the truth than his detractors would have hoped. Good on you, Mr. President!   

For any commentator: Sooooo, what gun do you think Reagan carried?  A 1911?  ;^)’  Old School Cool.  


Paul- I remember an old interview where RR stated that he saved a woman from an attack from his room by pointing an unloaded handgun at the perpetrator. It was widely thought of as a made up story until NPR (seriously!) tracked down the nurse who corroborated the story.


CF-Yep, a 45 Colt single action, if I remember correctly.  Definitely old school cool.


Felon Shoots and Paralyzes a Veteran Outside of St Louis Cardinal Stadium
This story strikes too close to home for one of our staff members. A 43 year old veteran celebrating his mother’s birthday at a St Louis Cardinals game was shot and paralyzed by a felon with a decades long rap sheet.

Chris Sanna and his girlfriend were walking back to their car after the Cardinals game when they were assaulted by two armed robbers. Despite giving the criminals everything they wanted, Sanna was shot in the back. The bullet punctured his liver and lung after destroying two vertebrae and his spinal cord. Doctors do not expect Sanna to walk again. There has been a recent spate of victims being shot after a robbery, perhaps related to the racial tensions in the city.  

Several days later, police arrested Kilwa Jones for the assault. Jones was already in jail for beating the mother of his two children. Police found video of Jones using Sanna’s credit cards. They’ve also recovered a 9mm Hi-Point from the career criminal’s car.

The Cardinals do not allow any weapons in their stadium; that includes knives and pepper spray. They do back up their policy with metal detectors, but that works only inside the stadium walls. Fans must walk the downtown streets to get to get to their cars. The fans are known to be weaponless – and very attractive to criminals. From personal observation, city police and security guards are largely absent from the streets after the games.  Fans disarmed – and abandoned – Cardinals games will be few and far between.      


Rob- Gun free zone.  fugitive from justice.  Tell me again how the state will protect us from thugs.


Governor Brown Vetoes SB347
It’s a sad commentary on the state when “Flaky Jerry” Brown, Governor Moonbeam of California, is one of the more rational political voices.


Senate Bill 347, authored by Senator Hannah Beth Jackson, a member of the Barking Moonbat Caucus, would have eliminated Second Amendment rights for some minor firearm-related misdemeanors. For example, possession of a single round of ammunition on school grounds could have cost a citizen their firearm rights for ten years. Brown vetoed this bill and eight others, stating; “Each of these bills creates a new crime — usually by finding a novel way to characterize and criminalize conduct that is already proscribed …without commensurate benefit.”


Congratulations Governor Brown, for bringing a small amount of common sense to California.


Unfortunately, sanity was apparently only a fleeting acquaintance, as Jerry has signed Senate Bill 707. The bill, despite the experience of the UCC murders, prohibits licensed, law-abiding CCW holders from carrying firearms on school property. The law further criminalizes the simple possession of ammunition on campus, even without the firearm. Apparently, the politicians decided to Gun-Free Zone HARDER!


Rob- This is more of the culture war on gun owners in California.  So the inadvertent possession of ammunition on school grounds was vetoed in one bill and then passed in the next bill.  The democrat politicians of California are abusing gun owners while they build another school shooting.  The California Attorney General said the legislature should show autopsy photographs of the murdered students in order to pass more gun laws.  I like that.  I want to show the pictures of the murdered students to show how their gun free school zones failed again and again.


John – I think Gov. Brown is trying to split the baby. He vetoes one anti-rights bill and then signs another. It doesn’t work that way. You are either pro-rights or anti-rights. There is really no in-between. The fact that SB 707 creates a privileged class – retired LEO – is wrong.


Professor leaves Texas for Australia

Here is a lighthearted take on the very somber subject of guns on campus.  MIssouri and Texas passed laws allowing carry on campus.  A local campus denied its staff the right to carry.  In similar situations, some professors have written articles saying students are at a greater risk once licensed concealed carriers are disarmed.  One law school professor at the University of Missouri is suing the school for a civil rights violation by denying him the right to carry. A business professor at Purdue in Indiana is also fighting for that same right.


John- William A. Jacobson is a clinical professor of law at Cornell Law School.  He also blogs at the Legal Insurrection website, and he came out against gun-free schools.


In contrast, one professor at the University of Texas at Austin said he will leave Texas and go to Australia to teach because of Texas carry laws.  Another 390 faculty members from UT said they would not allow students with CHLs to carry in their classrooms.  Given that few of their students are over 21, that is a hollow threat.


John- They could be 18 if they were in the military.

John –


Susan- Rachel had this to say about her fellow texans.

Maybe all the anti-gun professors will leave and get replaced by a friendlier faculty.

I hoped that someone who has the credentials and education to be a professor would understand some basic logic, including but not limited to the following points:

-We’ve already had campus carry for almost 2 decades, just not inside the school buildings

-this new law does not allow 18 year old freshmen to have any more access to guns, nor does it permit them to use guns to murder professors

-someone intent on shooting a professor out of anger is not super likely to go to the trouble, expense, and time of obtaining a chl.

Unfortunately, UT Austin professors are baffled by such simple arguments.


Rob- Most of these professors are elitists.  A university president with either conviction or bravery would accept their resignation and say good riddance.  If you’re carrying in class, it is not a sin to tell a lie to someone who does not deserve to know the truth.


Gun Quotes- Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.  Martin Luther King, Jr.  I would add, do you love your family and community enough to protect them?


Hang on everybody, we’ll be back with our guest (Name).

advertisement Concealment Solutions

Segment 3 Interviews


Campus Carry in Texas

Campus Carry goes into effect on August 1. It will allow CHL holders to carry concealed inside buildings on campus. Schools in Texas are currently deciding what their policies will be, since they are allowed to restrict carry in areas of their choosing. Our activists are speaking up to try to prevent carry restrictions.



Tina Maldonado, UT staff member and chapter facilitator of A Girl & A Gun

Brittany Sutton, student leader of Texas A&M Students for Concealed Carry on Campus


Action items:

  1. UT-Austin is conducting a survey. Please share it with your people who are connected to UT and ask them to fill it out. This includes students, staff, faculty, and also anybody in the community. Link: https://utexas.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_9QrRbfdWtcjk0Bf
  2. Everybody in Texas knows somebody connected to A&M. Find those pro-gun students and tell them to join the facebook group Texas A&M Students for Concealed Carry on Campus. There will be public forums – make sure they go and speak up. Link: https://www.facebook.com/groups/tamusccc/
  3. Befriend a college student and take him or her shooting.


Segment 4 DGUs


Houston Deputy Shoots Home Invader

A Houston, Texas criminal made a very poor choice in the victim selection process. Behind Door #1 stood a Harris County Deputy Sheriff and his duty weapon. When his door was kicked down and the invader rushed into his home, the deputy fired. The suspect fled in a car likely driven by a second suspect. Because blood was found in the hallway, it is almost certain the Deputy wounded the invader. Area hospitals have been alerted to watch for a black male with a gunshot wound.

We note that the Deputy was in the same desperate situation that many normal homeowners are finding themselves. He relied on his weapon to save his life, as many of the other homeowners have done – and will do in the future. That’s certainly a common sense reason to own a firearm.  


Three Against One Turns Out Poorly For Home Invaders

A homeowner turned the tables on three home invaders – through the use of a firearm.  A Dallas-Fort Worth homeowner found himself under attack by three invaders. Their robbery and assault was going as planned until the homeowner was able to grab a gun. Neighbors heard the five shots that hit all three invaders. The criminals ran from the house and escaped in a car driven by an accomplice. The driver abandoned the car at an intersection, and the three wounded robbers were arrested and taken to a hospital. The feckless fourth remains at large.


Rob- Point shooting was taught at an NRA safety class.

John- look for one handed point shooting Col. Rex Applegate.


Husband Shoots From Behind a Robber
As they say: Location, Location, Location. An elderly Indianapolis couple is together today because the husband used the advantages of position, stealth and a firearm to stop a deadly attack.

The 75-year-old woman was at their property rental office when she found herself under the gun of a 27-year-old attacker. Her husband heard the commotion from the front office, entered the room from behind the attacker and saw the gun pointed at his wife’s head. The man describes his fear for her life and shooting into the robber’s back. When the criminal got up and pointed his gun again, the elderly man fired twice more. Those shots struck the thief in the head. The attacker is in critical condition in a local hospital. He has a long rap sheet with several outstanding warrants for his arrest.


Police will not charge the elderly man. A spokesman stated that if someone comes into your home and you’re in imminent fear of danger for your life, you have a right to protect yourself.

In such a deadly situation, an armed citizen is under no obligation to warn the attacker, nor chivalrously face him. The elderly man was completely justified in shooting the attacker in the back without warning. He rightly used every advantage he had in that deadly situation.


However, most firearm instructors advise to shoot until the threat stops. Allowing the criminal to regain his feet and point the gun again is not a good strategy. Many self defense instructors also believe that with a finger on the gun’s trigger, a central nervous system hit is best. For immediate incapacitation, without the reflexive tightening of the trigger finger, a shot to the brainstem, the medulla oblongata, is recommended. However, the citizen must be able to make the shot to a racquet ball sized target at the base of the brain. Education, training and practice are a must.  

This episode is just one more common sense reason to have a gun — and to know how to use it.  




Another Craigslist Ambush

Police say at least two criminals were shot after a Craigslist ambush was foiled by an intended victim.
A father and son from Grand Rapids drove into Battle Creek, Michigan to buy a car. When they arrived, they were jumped by three robbers. The son, a concealed carry license holder, fired twice, hitting two of the alleged attackers. The third criminal is still on the loose. Because of the son’s action, neither father nor son were injured.  


It should come as no surprise that people with cash or valuables meeting anonymous strangers at an unfamiliar location are in a risky situation. Buyers and sellers should both take precautions. Many police departments are setting up Craigslist Transaction Zones outside of their stations. We urge our listeners to stay careful, observant, and prepared.     


Don’t Torque Off The Old Guy

“I wanted to shoot him really bad. I really wanted to shoot him”; said Old Guy Robert Hamm, who had his 10 AM nap interrupted by a man carrying an armful of his tools. “I just pointed the gun at him and told him I’d blow him in two if he moved.” The very expressive Old Guy made the thief lie on the floor until the Carter County, Kentucky Sheriff’s Department arrived. Hamm said he’d known the suspect from birth and he has a reputation for this sort of thing.

Unfortunately, the 75-year-old might get his shot, as the home-invader is still at large. The suspect was so intoxicated from pills and booze that he was taken to a hospital to detox. A day or so later, the thief checked himself out of the hospital — and disappeared. Hamm felt it’s inexcusable that a man who broke into his home carrying a knife was given a chance to walk away. “It made me madder than hell.” The Old Guy had predicted the legal system would let the burglar off lightly. “I’ve seen where they’ve turned people loose who’ve done it four or five times,” he said. Officials say the burglar could be held in contempt of court (ooooo!) since he didn’t turn himself in.

Hamm’s not overly concerned about a return visit. The Old Guy said, “I wish he would. I would finish the job.” The thief should know that you just Don’t Torque-Off The Old Guys. And you certainly don’t interrupt their naps.  


We post each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com  Please take a minute and share them with a friend.



Segment 5 Show close


Listener e-mail discussion


Email #1

Subject: Guns in the cold


Apologies for the delay in sending this in. You had a guest on recently discussing the effects of extreme cold on the functioning of semiautomatic weapons. Immediately it made me remember the exploits of my “cousins” back in Finland during the Winter War with Russia at the outset of WW2. The winter of 39 was one of the coldest on record, so cold that the Baltic Sea froze ships in place. The Finns had to change how they handled the cleaning of their guns, adding gasoline to their gun oil for their rifles,  mainly Mosin Nagants.  For automatics and their artillery they used a mix of alcohol and glycerine to avoid the freeze. I’ll attach an image from William Trotters book Frozen Hell (an amazing read FYI).


As a side note, this would have been the practice of Simo Hyha during the war. Hyha is by far the highest numbered sniper in World history, especially confounding when you consider the short time span of his engagement. Also his weapon of choice was an iron sighted Mosin, scopes raised his head too high.


Love the show, keep it up.




Email from Bud with the Subject line Crazy Gun Studies


I happen to run across this interview today and couldn’t believe what this professor was stating.  I immediately posted it on Facebook, with a detailed overview and the links, to show to my pro-rights friends and followers.  I couldn’t locate it on Facebook, so I reposted it later in the day.  I think that I will post it daily and in different areas of Facebook and other social media sites to ensure that it is seen by many.


Here is my posting


Is anyone buying what this “Professor” is selling when it comes to CHL’s, guns and crime rates?  “There isn’t any correlation between concealed handgun license holders and crime” according to the professor and his colleagues at Texas A&M.   He also describes how they collected and formulated their data, which is drastically different than normal research performed by others.  You can listen to a short interview that the professor gave on Wednesday, September 30, 2015 at http://dfw.cbslocal.com/audio/minute-with-mitch.


Texas A&M Regents Professor Emeritus Dr. Charles Phillips states that he was not surprised by their findings.  He said a couple of things during this short interview that leads me to believe that he has an agenda in obtaining his results.  One is he states that “according to the NRA, if you don’t carry a weapon, you are a CHUMP”.  And secondly, “the NRA’s definition of a victim is someone who doesn’t own a gun.”  I’ve never heard anyone from the NRA state this and I’ve never seen it written on their website.  Maybe the Dr. can point this out or provide a link where I can find this information?


He states that their research shows that the number of CHL holders in Texas counties has a direct correlation with the number of firearm dealers in that county, but nothing due to crime rates.  CHL holders are very seldom convicted of crimes, but when they do happen they are big time serious crimes. He references previous studies that he or Texas A&M have done named “When CHL Holders Break Bad”.   In these studies they found:

  • There are very few convictions or occurrences of crimes by CHL holders
  • They are violent crimes
  • A firearm is usually involved
  • There is a death


He also states that “easy access to a means of deadly force means that it is likely to be used.”


Dr. Phillips cites 3 recent studies conducted by the American Journal of Public Health which conclude that more guns (he doesn’t state whether legal or illegal, and I have not read them yet) equal:

  • More police officers are killed
  • Higher rates of young male suicides
  • Guns are more likely to be used by, or on, another occupant of the home, rather than to protect you from an outsider or stranger (criminal).


The Dr. provides the following advice – “If you are thinking of buying a firearm for home defense, consider the following:

  • Guns in households are dangerous
  • It is more likely that GUN suicides will occur
  • Don’t believe that you are going to save yourself from, or during, a criminal encounter.”


Just for the record, I am biased on gun ownership, CHL holders and I’m a lifetime member of the NRA.


I hope that you guys can create a research topic on firearm studies and results in a near future podcast.  I would really like to hear someone have Dr. Phillips on their show to challenge him on his research tactics and conclusions. Maybe having Dr. John Lott on the show to discuss specific issues with the way that studies such as this one is slanted for certain results would also be very enlightening?  We all hear of different studies, with major differences in their results and are often left wondering who is right.


Keep up the good work on the Polite Society podcast.  I look forward to listening to it each week and I have even gone back and listened to the older podcasts to hear topics of the times and the fine DGU stories.


Thank you,



-John – Believe or not, I actually know Charles Phillips. Or did. He was an asst prof of political science at UNC-Chapel Hill when I was in grad school. He got there in about 1981 and left in 1987 when he didn’t get tenure. He was one of the young liberal professors. I didn’t know he had become a prof of public health.


Rob- I’ve read the studies.  They count a criminal bringing a gun on your property as if it was your gun… and therefore you had a gun on premises.



Jacob emailed us a video of a hero who stepped in and ended up losing his life trying to help rescue a woman being threatened by a man with a gun




This guy is a hero. Full stop. He made a risky move when he saw an opportunity, and it could have turned out very poorly, but I find it hard to fault a man who is so clearly willing to give his life for a stranger. He gets shot, mortally wounded, and continues fighting to subdue the attacker and save the victim. I hesitate to call him a victim in return, because I doubt he would want that – I think he knew the trade he was making and went in knowing he might not come out. I think it really drives home what Paul always says – weapons and tactical advantages might make defending yourself easier, but the fight is never over as long as you’re conscious and willing to fight back.


William also emailed us.


Greetings All,

I’d sent this weeks ago but I am a world class master procrastinator. I’ll reference several shows.

You had referenced the wonderful NY trigger and kind of equated it to that of a double action revolver.

While that can be true it really depends on the revolver, specially the time frame of it’s design and build. My wife has an old Webley revolver made back in the early 1900’s. It was carried by her grandfather who served as a sheriff somewhere in West Texas. We don’t shoot it but the trigger pull is such that I’m tempted to use two fingers when I play with it. (Not very often due to its on hammer firing pin.) I suspect that is very close to the NY trigger. I hear the new S&W J-frames are as bad but haven’t pulled the trigger on one to see. On the other hand the K-frames made back in the 50’s and 60’s when the police were using them were very nice. Maybe 7 to 8 pounds, smooth and were a joy to shoot, if you used proper trigger technique. Still kicking myself for selling one that I had. And while python’s stack a bit differently I’ve heard few complaints about their triggers.

Next topic. Several time you, and those on other podcasts, seem to make a distinction between the police and civilians. Unless a police officer is also a member of the military they are also civilians. While that is nitpicking word usage we really need to be careful as those opposed to our views will use anything they can against us. Perhaps “private citizen” would be a better term to use for distinction.

Last topic for this email is the apparent misconception with regard to using a gun to protect property in Texas. In spite of what has been said Texans can no more use guns just to protect property than anyone else. We do however have a bit more leeway. As it was explained to me back when I took a concealed carry class in the 90’s. The teacher was a police officer and what he said summarized and in my words.

If I see someone in my workshop I can go out and confront him. However unless he has a weapon, picks up something to use as such, or makes a furtive movement I can’t just shoot him. I can however have a gun in my hand. At night things are a bit different because I can’t see as well. Does he have a weapon I’m not seeing? What during the day time might look innocent might look like a dangerous furtive motion at night. Is someone else hiding in the darkness. It all comes down to whether we think we are in mortal danger.

>From past episodes I know you will say that you shouldn’t go out and confront them. While that may be true it is a personal decision and realize that when people live in rural areas things are a bit different. That 911 call which may take 10 long minutes in town can take hours in the country. The last time I needed an officer’s assistance they had to patch me through to the responding officer so I could talk him in. Couldn’t find the place.

Either way, I for one, don’t want to just sit and watch while someone carries off all my stuff. I guess it boils down to the feeling that if something is worth having it is worth fighting for. It is a decision I’d just have to make at the time and the situation. If there is a team, they can take what they want. My life isn’t worth the risk.


Is a human life worth my table saw? I don’t know. Is the bad guy really human or a predatory animal? While legally human you have to wonder what will he do on his next job? I think we all would do what was necessary to stop him if he was stealing a firearm. It’s a very complex issue with lots of what ifs.

Enjoy your show. Keep up the good work or I’ll cut what I pay for your show. 8->



Rob- badged and unbadged civilians




Paul: Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?


Rob- I posted the links to the Gun Rights Policy Conference along with a list of the speakers.  I did that for each of the three segments we recorded.  I also wrote up a review of the conference.


After the recent murders in Oregon, we’ve heard the howls for more gun control.  The politicians and news media got me thinking, and I asked myself if gun control works.  We know it doesn’t work in schools, but I wondered if I was missing something, so I looked at the data from each of the 50 states.  I put the states in order based on their level of gun control, and then looked at the FBI data for the crime rates in each state.  I printed the data out as a graph so anyone can see it.  After looking at the results, I can say that gun control does not reduce violent crime.  The article is called “Does Gun Control Work”  I’ve seen several other authors write similar articles, so it is a good time to study that question.


This may sound simplistic to our long time listeners, but most people have not studied these issues at all.  They think violent crime has increased when violent crime has fallen since the early 1990s.  I want to thank our listeners for reading past the headlines and staying informed.


In another article I said gun-free zones and fatherless boys are killing us.  That was in the article called Liberal Politicians Blinded by Feel-Good Policy on Guns.


My articles are up at Ammoland and Clash Daily.  After the shooting in Oregon, I noticed I had 55 entries in my category called Public Violence.  You can find all of them on my blog at slow facts dot wordpress dot com.


John, tell us what’s new at your blog no lawyers only guns and money


I’ve done a number of posts since GRPC but this is one I want to highlight. Dr. Carson said that if the Jews had not been disarmed it could have made a difference with regard to the Holocaust. He was correct and the mainstream media piled on trying to discredit his statements. They are trying to make out like he is a kook and trigger happy. Frankly, they are afraid of the truth. One need only listen to our friends in JPFO and read the writings of Stephen Halbrook to know that.


I will have an important post coming out on the 15th. It will be called Every Picture Tells A Story, Part 3. It will be in honor of Maine going live with Constitutional Carry on that day. It graphically shows the growth of freedom from 1986 through 2014.


That and more is at only guns and money dot blogspot dot com.


We would like to thank Charlie Foxtrot for writing up show notes for us. Even though you don’t hear him on the air he is certainly part of what you do hear. Look at his blog at not one more gun law dot blogspot dot com


Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast.  I’d like to thank (Guests) for joining us today.  co-hosts, will you be with us next time?  I’m looking forward to it.  Until the next time…

Gary: stay safe,

Rob: be aware,

John: and we’ll see you down the road.


(after show close) How could we have made this episode better?


(DO NOT READ)Look at the shooters club by Bob Mayne and Ben Branam.  For $75.00 a year, $6.25 a month, you get 24/7 access to some fantastic training and audio podcasts that you can’t get anywhere else.  Subscribing from the link in our show notes helps Bob and Ben as well as helps us here at the Polite Society Podcast.


(DO NOT READ)Join your local civil rights group like the New Jersey Second Amendment Society, Arizona Citizens Defense League, Gun Owners of California, Commonwealth Second Amendment,  Connecticut Citizens Defense League, Florida Carry, Georgia Carry, Georgia Gun Owners, Grass Roots North Carolina, Illinois Carry, Maryland Shall Issue,  Michigan Gun Owners , Michigan Open Carry, and  Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners.


There are Minnesota Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance,  Nebraska Firearms Owners Association,   Citizens for a Safer New Jersey, New York State Rifle & Pistol Association,  Palmetto Concealed Carry, Open Carry Texas, Texas Firearms Freedom, Texas State Rifle Association. Tennessee Firearms Association, Virginia Citizens Defense League, Virginia Open Carry,  West Virginia Citizens Defense League, wisconsingunowners.org, and Wyoming Gun Owners.


For our Canadian listeners, and their supporters, join the Canadian Shooting Sports Association and the Canadian National Firearms Association.  If YOUR state or local organization isn’t read each episode, then send us an email and we’ll add them!


(DO NOT READ)The Polite Society download app is out on Amazon for Android and the I-phone app is in I-tunes and it is called Podcast Box.  They are located by our old name, Politics and guns.  Hot links are in our show notes.


Episode 331: Alexander Roubian Of NJ2AS

Full Episode Download: http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/331.mp3

Open and Personal News Segment: http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/331_open.mp3

News Segment 1: http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/331_news_1.mp3

News Segment 2: http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/331_news_2.mp3

Interview Segment 1: Alexander Roubian of NJ2AS: http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/331_Alexander.mp3

DGU Segment: http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/331_DGU.mp3

Email and Show Close: http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/331_email.mp3



“An armed society is a polite society.. and this is the Polite Society Podcast where we support and report on civilian self-defense.”

Paul: Welcome to the polite society podcast presented by the Firearms Policy Coalition recorded Sunday, May 31 2015, I’m Paul Lathrop

Rob: I’m Rob Morse and on tonights show we will talk with Alexander Roubian about the campaign to recall New Jersey Senator Steve Sweeney.

John: I’m John Richardson, and we’ll talk about Texas finally getting open carry.

Gary: I’m Gary Daugherty and in one of our we have a rarity, a DGU in New Jersey! .. so climb aboard (???)

Rob: strap in

John : and hang on!

Paul:  episode 321 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.

Show intro music.


Seg 1- Personal news from each participant (when you are done with your segment please ask the next person what has been up with them)


Rob- I got to shoot my Mosin Nagant again.  I had to sight the rifle in after I put a taller front sight on it.  I am a three minute shooter so far. I’d like to shoot it again shooting outdoors with a larger target at a longer distance.  I also shot my friends Browning copy of a 1881 lever action in 45-70.  That 350 grain bullet makes the Mosin feel like a 22.  It is embarrassing that the Browning front sight was a tenth of an inch too short.


I read the news for Kenn Blanchard’s program Black Man with a Gun.  I was also on the Lock and Load Radio Show with Bill Frady.  Bill said he’ll come on our podcast.  So will Bob Mayne next month.


John, what have you been up to?




John – Not much to report this week. It has been mostly work since Memorial Day. I have been assembling the parts for my retro AR-15 A1. I just need the barrel to complete it. It will be a mixture of original surplus parts and some modern parts especially in the fire controls. My dad had shot Expert with the M-16 and I thought I’d like something similar to what he was issued.


Gary- Teaching, shot the Para again still working on FTF issues.


Paul – Getting ready for next weekend’s renaissance festival. meetings meetings meetings.


I am going to insert a live promo about upcoming training classes here.



Seg 2- News



-Judge  Frederick J. Scullin Junior said Washington, DC’s regulation of concealed carry was unconstitutional.  The judge enjoined the city from enforcing those laws.  Then judge Scullin denied DC’s request for a stay in his decision.  In layman’s terms, the judge said I mean it, and I mean it now.  The second amendment foundation has filed a motion seeking contempt charges against the city.


The city had a chance to appeal the judge’s original decision.  One reason the city might not have appealed is that DC did not want to lose in front of a federal appeals court, and the DC law was so egregious that the could well have lost even in front of a democrat appointed judicial panel.


-Oklahoma Governor Mary Fallin signed a knife preemption bill.  It passed the Oklahoma house by a vote of 81 to 4.   The governor signed a bill allowing automatic opening knives the previous week.  This means that common knives are legal across the state of Oklahoma.. and law enforcement can pursue violent criminals rather than chasing honest knife owners.


Licensed Open Carry Passes in Texas.

-The Texas senate and house passed separate open carry bills.  and then both chambers ignored open carry until the last days of this legislative session.  The Senate finally took up the house bill and passed licensed open carry.  It included a provision that open carry is not probable cause for arrest.  The concern was that texas police would arrest any black person carrying a gun.  That provision has been eliminated from the bill and both houses of the Texas legislature pass the bill on Friday. Gov. Greg Abbott tweeted, “Open Carry just passed in both the Texas House & Senate. Next destination: My Pen.


John – I know I have teased my fellow podcast Rachel Malone about how North Carolina is ahead of Texas on this. We have had unlicensed open carry since 1922. That said, I want to recognize all the hard work that she and other gun rights activists put in to make this law a reality. Congratulations to all 2A activists in TX who fought for this.


Campus Carry in Texas

A campus carry bill passed the Texas Senate by a 20-11 vote on Saturday. The bill will be taken up by the Texas House on Sunday afternoon. Gov. Abbott has said he will sign the bill when it arrives on his desk.

The bill as passed by the Senate would allow licensed carry holders carry in dorms, classrooms, and public buildings of public universities. A provision to add private universities was eliminated in a conference committee.

While schools will be able to designate their own “gun free zones”, it will be limited.

State Sen. Brian Birdwell, R-Granbury, said his legislation would allow for “very limited, reasonable prohibitions” on handguns in certain locations on university property.

He said his intent was that public college campuses would be as “permissive and accessible” as possible to handgun license holders and that universities would be as “specific and as minimalistic as possible” in defining restricted areas.

Break??? Yes



Concealed Carrier Has Pistol Seized and Disassembled and Placed in Trunk.
A Coral Gables, Florida policeman noticed a CCW License, freaked out, seized the pistol, disassembled it, and placed it in the trunk. And his chief see nothing wrong with it.


A man and his family were driving through Coral Gables when they were pulled over for exceeding the 15 MPH speed limit. The cop notice the CCW License when getting the Driver’s License. His reaction was completely without justification. He order the driver to freeze and the officer reached in and removed the pistol from the driver’s holster. The pistol was finally returned, disassembled, in the trunk. The driver is sure he was treated as a criminal. And his police chief feels the deputy did nothing wrong.


Marion Hammer, executive director of the Unified Sportsmen of Florida and past-president of the National Rifle Association, disagrees. “I believe this incident involves an illegal search — without provocation — of a law abiding citizen duly licensed to carry a concealed weapon,” Eric Friday, the general counsel for Florida Carry, Inc. also has issues with the constitutionality of the search. Friday was not surprised by the allegations.


Friday reiterated that no driver in Florida has a duty to tell police when they are armed. “Because of repeated instances such as you are describing to me, I no longer recommend that to people today,” Friday said. “I changed my position because of misconduct such as this. … I strongly believe it’s time for the legislature to create specific penalties that apply when the rights of concealed-carry licensees are abused, or this will continue unabated.”


It’s a sad state of affairs when the cops mistrust and fear their obvious ally.


Anti-Gun Professor Dismisses California Gun Violence Restraining Orders
We’ve met anti-gun UCLA Law professor Adam Winkler before: the blog Not One More Gun Law fisked his inane HuffPo article Ferguson: With So Many Guns in America, Police Are Trained to Live in Fear. He pushes the standard snake-oil of universal background checks and scary gun bans. So it was a little surprising when he dismissed the new California Gun Violence Restraining Orders as ineffective.


Last year, California instituted Gun Violence Restraining Orders allowing associates and law enforcement to immediately strip a citizen’s 2nd Amendment rights with nothing more than an allegation. Patterned after the much-abused Domestic Violence Restraining Orders, the GVROs are a clear threat to California citizen’s embattled rights. A bill to punish false allegations was soundly defeated in the legislature.

The National Journal found that GVROs would not have stopped recent mass shootings. In their report, Winkler is quoted, “The truth is that it is very rare to know in advance when someone is going to be dangerous with a firearm. This is not going to make a huge dent in our gun violence statistics.”  Seems like even this stopped clock is right for once.


Loretta Lynch’s DOJ Will Move Forward With a Dozen Anti-Gun Regulations

The Obama administration’s Department of Justice will move forward with a dozen new anti-gun regulations The Hill reported. These proposed rules are to be enacted in the waning years of Obama’s term.

According to The Hill, the new regulations range from restrictions on high-powered pistols to gun storage requirements. There will be a renewed effort to keep guns out of the hands of people who are mentally unstable or have been convicted of domestic abuse. There are rising concerns that the administration will try to disqualifying as many people as possible from gun ownership; people who may have had a problem at some time in their past, regardless of their current behaviour.


John Lott reports the media’s coming support of these efforts has been telegraphed by Columbia University’s weekend workshop for journalists. Fifteen of the panel’s seventeen “experts” were allegedly gun control advocates. Apparently, journalism that presents both sides of the story is long gone. Gun Safety is likely to be the media theme, a more palatable, disingenuous description of anti-gun efforts. The workshop promised a range of biased anti-rights talking points, ignoring much of the benefits and realities of an armed populace.

It’s been said many times before, but the remaining months of Obama’s reign are likely to be the most dangerous ever to the Constitution as a whole and the Right To Keep and Bear Arms specifically.


House Bill To Require Gun Owners To Carry Liability Insurance
One of Bloomberg’s Useful Idiots: NY Rep Carolyn Maloney has introduced a bill to require the nation’s gun owners to carry liability insurance. The Firearm Risk Protection Act, would require gun buyers to have liability insurance before being allowed to purchase a firearm, fining any owner $10,000 if found not to have it. Service members and law enforcement officers would be exempt from the requirement.
It should be obvious that requiring a citizen to purchase a service from a private entity before exercising a Protected Right strains the limits of the Constitution and common sense. Poor inner city residents most in need would be economically prevented from exercising their right to self-defense. This is far from Maloney’s first anti-gun initiative. Just last week we discussed her proposed bill requiring each gun purchase to be reported to the Attorney General.  Maloney and her puppet-master Bloomberg are clearly no friends of the Constitution.


John – I hate to add this but Maloney is a North Carolina native who went to New York City seeking fame, fortune, and gun control.


The New Nationwide Crime Wave: The Ferguson Effect

It’s been a rough ten months since the justifiable shooting of Michael Brown in Ferguson, Missouri. And It looks like it’s going to get worse. In a Wall Street Journal commentary, the impacts of the growing anti-police sentiments of the black activists, media and Progressive politician’s are examined. Called the Ferguson Effect, it documents the restrictions on the police and the resulting dramatic increase in crime.


As we in the gun-rights community well know, politicians typically respond to notorious crimes and events by punishing the law-abiding. The Ferguson Effect is much of the same. After a string of highly publicized black deaths by police, usually when the suspect has resisted arrest, there has been a slew of anti-police efforts. Police have been facing new rules, regulations and policies, DOJ consent decrees, community organizers and politicized civilian review boards, all under the highly biased microscope of the media.


The assault on policing has resulted in a destruction of police morale. The officers realize that any interaction with a suspect, no matter how warranted, may end up destroying their lives and family. Proactive policing, typified by the very effect “Broken Window” policies, is gone, and crime has jumped. Rates of murder, assaults, and burglaries, have increased dramatically, in some neighborhoods as much as 500%. The decades long decrease in crime appears to be ending.

Unfortunately, the immediate victims of the rising urban violence are the poor of the  inner city. Their ability to live safely and climb out of that morass will be threatened by the empowered criminals. But have no fear, the violence will not stay in the ghetto: everyone must be vigilant. Further compounding their errors, politicians will take advantage of the increasing crime rates to push for the usual ineffective gun restrictions.


Read the attached article in the show notes, it is well worth your time. And prepare and be aware. It’s an increasingly dangerous world out there.


Gun Quote  (who?)

How strangely will the tools of a tyrant pervert the plain meaning of words.  Samuel Adams.


Hang on everybody, we’ll be back with our interview segment.

advertisement Concealment Solutions

Segment 3 Interviews

Alexander Roubian from NJ2AS, http://www.recallsweeney.com/

Saturday, June 27, 2015 at 09:00 AM

Glassboro, NJ, exact location TBA


Segment 4 DGUs



Woman Injured Defending Her Home

A 51-year-old woman was shot defending the occupants of her home from three armed and masked attackers. The three attackers burst through the Townsend, Delaware home and demanded money. One of the occupants was roughed up by an invader. The woman shot at an armed intruder and suffered a shot to the leg in the exchange of gunfire. The invaders fled, it is not known if any was injured. She and the roughed-up young man are in the hospital with non-life threatening injuries.


Sometimes the cost of self-defense can be high – but worth it, especially when four lives are in the balance.


Intruder Shot By Woman

A Trenton, New Jersey woman was forced to defend her life with a gun. A jilted lover broke into her house and she shot him in the thigh. The lovesick and ventilated Jemoine Morris was picked up by police and taken to the hospital. He has been charged with criminal mischief. As of now, the woman has not been charged, but the New Jersey investigation is ongoing.


Cabby Fights Back

A Sebastian, Florida cab driver is alive and well after being held at knifepoint by two would-be robbers thanks to being armed. The two men had hailed the cab on early Saturday morning and then held a knife on the driver as they attempted to rob him. The cabby drew his handgun and shot one of the men. After the shooting, both men fled the scene. However, police were able to follow the blood trail and find them. The cabby identified the wounded man as the one who had held the knife on him. The wounded man was given medical assistance but died on his way to the hospital.


Wrong Movers

Two guys were helping a third guy move into his new Aurora, Colorado condo on Friday night. They were approached by three juveniles who attempted to rob the men at  gunpoint. As two of the men started to pull out their wallets, the third man pulled out his handgun and shot all three of the robbers. One juvenile died after being taken to the hospital, another is in serious condition, and a third was arrested on unrelated charges after he sought treatment for a shoulder wound at Aurora South Hospital. The movers were questioned by police and prosecutors and released without any charges.


Car Thief Held At Gunpoint

From listener John comes a tale of modern jurisprudence. Tye Wiegel was interrupted in the pursuit of his trade by a Willimantic, Connecticut resident.  Mr. Wiegel was attempting to steal the man’s car, parked in front of the man’s house. Wiegel declined to cease his attempts, so the resident went into his house, grabbed a handgun, and held the slow-on-the-uptake thief at gunpoint for the police.

Ol’ Tye is well known to the police and is said to be a heroin addict, no surprise there. Police stated that “This is not our first time dealing with him with car break-ins. He was just arrested not too long ago. He was also a suspect in a car break-in earlier today,” He has been charged with sixth-degree larceny, criminal attempt to commit the crime and second-degree breach of peace. For all that, he is held on only a $5,000 bond. Listeners are invited to speculate on how long this one man crime wave will remain behind bars.


Police said the homeowner was not hurt but cautioned other residents against confronting criminals.

Surviving a Home Invasion

Many of our DGUs involve home invasions. Unfortunately, home takeovers are becoming increasingly common as thieves become more brazen and violent.  With the home invasion, kidnapping, extortion, torture and murder of the Savopoulous family in Washington, DC, the Statfor Group has written an excellent article on Surviving a Home Invasion. The article is being offered free to non-subscribers. There is no way we could do this article justice trying to summarize it in a few words, so we urge every one of our listeners to follow the link in the show notes and read this potentially life-saving article.


We post each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com  Please take a minute and share them with a friend.



Segment 5 Show close


Listener e-mail discussion


Alan emailed this one in with the subject line “Holding a bad guy at gunpoint”




Let me start by thanking you for your podcast.  I listen to several different podcasts on a variety of topics, but I rank yours among the most anticipated each week.


From time to time someone mentions holding a bad guy at gunpoint until the police arrive. The question I have is how do you do that?  If I were the sort of person who makes a living divesting other people of their possessions, and I were to encounter an armed person not inclined to be a victim, I believe I would simply turn my back, raise my hands in the air and say in a loud clear voice “I’m going to walk away now, I’m not a threat to you.  If you shoot me you will be convicted of murder, if you try to stop me or even touch me you will be convicted of assault.  In either case you will also end up in civil court where me or my family will sue you for everything you and your family have or ever will have.  I’m leaving now, and you would be stupid to try to stop me.” In fact, based on recent news coverage, you could almost make the same speech to a Police Officer.


What do you think?


Alan Hammock

formerly of Houston, Texas

recently moved to Virginia.


PS, If you ever get tired of listening to podcasts, I suggest checking out librivox.org.  They have a catalog of hundreds, maybe thousands of books that have passed into the public domain, which are read by volunteers and available free of charge.  Jules Verne, Edger Rice Burrows, all the books you were supposed to read in high school literature class, books by authors you’ve never heard of, etc.  Most books date back to the early 1900’s or before. It is quite educational listening to hundred year old books and hearing the different attitudes and cultures of the past.  Its a wonderful resource for anyone who spends a lot of time in an activity which would benefit by the addition of mental stimulation.


Paul – Here is what I wrote back to Alan –


Hey Alan,


Thanks for writing in!  I just got home and have added your email to our show notes for Sunday’s show.


A few thoughts on your email, I will of course repeat these on the show.


#1 if they do stop what they are doing and slowly back away, you are correct that since they aren’t a threat that you could be convicted of murder if you do shoot. However there are a few circumstance where you are morally obligated to shoot a retreating felon EVEN if the threat has stopped. If you attend a MAG40 class this will be discussed. Let me just say that the chances are so remote to the extreme to be say while the chances are not 0 they are close.


#2 Holding someone at gunpoint is all about control and command.  Believe me that if I were to boost my voice out good and loud in the proper tone that I can make someone absolutely believe that if they twitch in the wrong way that I am able and prepared to shoot them.


#3 We need to differentiate the severity of what you are attempting to stop (or in the case of our conversation have just stopped). If they have just kicked down your door and have maybe stolen something… Let them go. If they have already killed, that is another story.


There really is no black and white here.


Finally on the point of police, you do seem to have a point with that considering all of the negative publicity in the mainstream media lately, however I really wouldn’t want to be the one to try it.  😉


Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?


Rob- https://slowfacts.wordpress.com/2015/05/28/more-lethal-help-from-the-federal-government/

There were 27 shootings in Baltimore over the Memorial day weekend. 19 people were robbed in New York City’s central park. Chicago had 12 people shot to death and an additional 47 shot and wounded over the same weekend.  Our oh-so-caring politicians had to show sympathy for this flood of blue-city blood.  Josh Earnest, the White House press secretary, called for more gun control.


I pointed out that the violence is the symptom, not a cause.  The cause is the failed policies of deep-blue cities like Baltimore,  Detroit, New York City and Chicago.  You can’t fix stupid with gun-control.


I also spoke to a friend of mine.  He is a local spark plug and gets things started and done.  He started one step at a time, so I wrote an article called The Painless Ladder of Self-Defense Activism.



John do you want to mention anything off of your blog No Lawyers, Only Guns and Money you would like to talk about?


I just want to mention a short post I did about the Brady Center lawyers on a case in Wisconsin. They have already had to withdraw from one case because they violated pre-trial publicity rules of the Wisconsin Bar. Now it looks like they will have to withdraw from another case in Milwaukee over the same issue. Their conduct is being alleged to be prejudicial to a fair jury. It looks like another misstep by the Bad Apple lawyers from the Brady Center.


This and other posts can be found at onlygunsandmoney DOT blogspot DOT com.


We would like to thank Charlie Foxtrot for writing up show notes for us. Even though you don’t hear him on the air he is a big part of what you get to hear.


Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast.  I’d like to thank (Guests) for joining us today.  co-hosts, will you be with us next time?  I’m looking forward to it.  Until the next time…

Gary: stay safe,

Rob: be aware,

John: and we’ll see you down the road.


Mention advertisers, Concealment Solutions, Crusader Weaponry, NJ2AS and Graphics to Go, Inc. Firearm Safety Institute, Firearms Policy Coalition


(after show close) How could we have made this episode better?


(DO NOT READ)Look at the shooters club by Bob Mayne and Ben Branam.  For $75.00 a year, $6.25 a month, you get 24/7 access to some fantastic training and audio podcasts that you can’t get anywhere else.  Subscribing from the link in our show notes helps Bob and Ben as well as helps us here at the Polite Society Podcast.


(DO NOT READ)Join your local civil rights group like the New Jersey Second Amendment Society, Arizona Citizens Defense League, Gun Owners of California, Commonwealth Second Amendment,  Connecticut Citizens Defense League, Florida Carry, Georgia Carry, Georgia Gun Owners, Grass Roots North Carolina, Illinois Carry, Maryland Shall Issue,  Michigan Gun Owners , Michigan Open Carry, and  Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners.


There are Minnesota Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance,  Nebraska Firearms Owners Association,   Citizens for a Safer New Jersey, New York State Rifle & Pistol Association,  Palmetto Concealed Carry, Open Carry Texas, Texas Firearms Freedom, Texas State Rifle Association. Tennessee Firearms Association, Virginia Citizens Defense League, Virginia Open Carry,  West Virginia Citizens Defense League, wisconsingunowners.org, and Wyoming Gun Owners.


For our Canadian listeners, and their supporters, join the Canadian Shooting Sports Association and the Canadian National Firearms Association.  If YOUR state or local organization isn’t read each episode, then send us an email and we’ll add them!


(DO NOT READ)The Polite Society download app is out on Amazon for Android and the I-phone app is in I-tunes and it is called Podcast Box.  They are located by our old name, Politics and guns.  Hot links are in our show notes.


Episode 274 – Vikram Khanna at GRPC 2014

Rachel: Welcome to the polite society podcast recorded live on Wednesday, October 8th, 2014. I’m Rachel Malone.
John: I’m John Richardson, and we have a recorded interview with Vik Khanna from the gun rights policy conference.

Rob: I’m Rob Morse and we have our weekly news and stories of defensive gun use.. so climb aboard.
John: strap in!
Rachel: and hang on!  Episode 274 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.
Show intro music.
Seg 1- Personal news from each participant

Rachel- I had a girls’ shopping date with a friend of mine today…..a holster and ammo shopping date, that is. We found her a great holster at GT Distributors that allows her to carry a Glock 23 concealed. For a girl with a smaller frame, that’s pretty sweet.

John – Nothing really to report since Sunday afternoon. I’m waiting for my invitation to Media Day at SHOT Show. I understand that Paul and Susan have gotten their invitations. I hope they will put in a good word for me!

Rob- Dry practice and work.
Rachel- Break
advertisement ABN
Seg 2- News

John -The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms has a long history.  Recently it is a history of corruption and incompetence.  There is a website called “clean up ATF” where the field agents complain about their management.  Unfortunately, the management retaliates if anyone complains too loudly.  They tried to make an example of ATF field agent Vincent Cefalu.  Agent Cefalu went to court in his wrongful termination case last week.  This week the judge dismissed ATF’s attempt to fire Cefalu. The judge ruled that unfounded charges must be removed from his personnel record, the ATF owes Cefalu for his legal costs, the agency must restore Cefalu’s retirement funds by the end of the month, and they must pay an undisclosed settlement award.  After the verdict, agent Cefalu made an open post addressed to ATF Director B. Todd Jones and Deputy Director Thomas E. Brandon.

“You allowed the agency to abuse me and my family for eight years only to admit you were wrong. Nothing in the case changed over the last two years, yet you refused to settle, continued wasting taxpayers’ dollars and precious court time only to do what you should have done years ago..  You still have to reconcile not only keeping the managers responsible for this on your payroll, but promot[ing] them.  You have been aware of the perjury, false statements … gross mismanagement and waste, fraud and abuse by members of your executive staff and field managers and have done nothing. In fact you went to heroic measures to defend them.

“My true win comes from the knowledge that the field does not and will not accept your reckless leadership and [is] not afraid to call you out anymore.”

With bad managment like this, no wonder there is a morale problem at the ATF.  Yeah, and their agency lawyers are spending time fighting internal lawsuits rather than prosecuting violent criminal behavior.

Rob- There are similar problems at the Federal Bureau of Investigation.  Senator Chuck Grassley of Iowa said eleven whistleblowers in the FBI say the bureau is targeting them for termination in retaliation for their revelations about FBI wrongdoing.  Senator Grassley is the ranking Republican on the Senate Committee on the Judiciary.  The FBI set out to punish whistleblowers in a way the whistleblowers could not oppose.  They were served with Loss of Effectiveness orders and warned that their performance is suffering and that they could soon be fired.  These letters bypass the FBI’s Office of Professional Responsibility, so the whistleblowers would never have a chance to protest their evaluation.  Quoting Senator Grassley, “It’s stereotypical treatment of whistleblowers by the executive branch.”  These letters sent to the FBI employees mark the first major case showing how newly appointed FBI Director James B. Comey may react to internal whistleblowers.  If these allegations are true, the FBI’s treatment of whistleblowers stands in stark contrast with how it treats agents who have been found by [internal investigators] to have committed actual, disciplinable offenses,”  The senator cited the case of an FBI agent who was having a relationship with a foreign citizen and had divulged sensitive information. The agent was never sent a Loss of Effectiveness (LOE) letter, and the agent’s case was handled through the Office of Professional Responsibility, he said.

Rachel- The Indianapolis Star researched violent crimes committed with a firearm during the last five years.  They found three thousand of examples where prosecutors bargained away the firearms charges for a guilty plea to a lesser offense.  The plea bargains make life easier for prosecutors.  The plea bargains also cost lives when violent criminals are returned to the streets to kill again.  One such criminal was Leandrew Beasley.  Beasley was a drug dealer who shot several people while he should have been serving time in jail for his prior convictions.  Many of the criminals studied had a long list of prior arrests.  This was particularly true of murderers.  Evidently murder takes practice.  The report concluded that prosecuting repeat felons under existing laws would save lives.

Rob -Indianapolis is not alone in costing innocent lives.  Los Angeles is stuck on stupid and passes more gun restrictions while their crime rate goes up. The LA City Council voted to ban the possession of “high capacity” magazines within city limits. While the Ninth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that restrictions on concealed carry had to be eased, the LA County Sheriffs Department refused to comply with the judges’ ruling. The LA City Council lobbied the state legislature to ban “single shot” handguns, a ban which was implemented on the state level. At the state level, California restricted lead ammo, expanding criminal firearm storage rules, requiring safety certificates for owners of long guns, and expanding background checks.  All the while, crime rose in Los Angeles.  According to the Los Angeles Times, LA’s “overall violent crime rate is up 7.6 percent year to year.  Aggravated assaults increased by nearly 20 percent. and the incidence of rape was up 7 percent.

rachel comment- Insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results.

john comment- the politicians will keep selling gun control as long as the voters will buy it.

Rachel- Pro-Mag is a magazine and gun component manufacturer with a considerable share of the market.   They moved their business from anti-gun California to pro-gun and pro-business Arizona.  General manager Mike Kurvink said that the move was sparked by California’s gun and business laws that made it nearly impossible to do business.  They took 200 employees and 40 truck loads of equipment with them as they moved to Phoenix.
comment- well done, Pro-Mag

John -Here is a story of progress for Alabama gun owners.  The use of sound suppressors for hunting became legal as of October first.  Federal tax stamps are still required.  Until earlier this year, the Alabama Department of Conservation and Natural Resources prohibited the use of suppressors/silencers.  Now Alabama joins thirty other states who allow hunters to use suppressors while hunting.

Several countries consider hunting without a suppressor to be rude since the noise bothers the neighbors.  Those countries didn’t have alcohol prohibition in the 1930s and didn’t have our firearms laws that were supposed to control the organized crime that grew out of prohibition.
comment- using a suppressor makes you a good neighbor.
comment- John, are you going to get a suppressor for your pig gun?

Rob -A lie can travel halfway around the world before the truth pulls on its pants.  Anti-gun activist Mark Kelly lied on national television about how firearms transactions occur without a background check.  Kelly said only 60 percent of all gun sales occur with a background check.  The statistic is false and misleading.  The data comes from a few hundred phone interviews conducted 20 years ago.  The limited data includes sales made before background checks were required by law.  That is a fact you won’t hear on CNN.

comment-John – And THAT is why we have listeners to the Polite Society Podcast

Rachel -The intolerance of anti-gunners has reached a new high. Nino Ferlaino, a seasonal landscaping employee of the Crown Point, Indiana Lakes of the Four Seasons gated community was fired on July 2nd for merely owning a gun. His supervisor asked him if it was true he carried a firearm to which Mr. Ferlaino replied that he owned a firearm but did not carry it at work. Ferlaino was fired because the gated community had a “no tolerance policy”. Mr. Ferlaino is now suing the Lakes of the Four Seasons Property Owners Association Inc. for actual and punitive damages, attorney’s fees, and an injunction preventing them from taking similar actions against other employees. The homeowner’s association’s are in violation of an Indiana law passed in 2011 which forbids employers from asking if their employees own guns.  Moreover, most employees have the right to store their firearm in their vehicles while at work.

john Comment – I hope this group of anti-gunners has deep pockets
rob Comment – and that Mr. Ferlaino takes a lot of their money.

John – With Election Day less than a month away, it is important for gun owners and gun right supporters to know who our friends are, who only pays lip service to the Second Amendment, and who really is after our guns. To find who who is pro-gun, we suggest checking out the NRA Political Victory Fund site as well as those from the many state-level organizations. To make it easier to figure out who  pays lip service or hates us, Everytown Moms for Illegal Mayors have released their own endorsements. As Bob Owens of BearingArms points out, Bloomberg didn’t want to be seen doing the endorsements himself. You will find such anti-gun luminaries as Cal AG Kamala Harris, CT Gov Dan Malloy, and NY Gov Andrew Cuomo on the list along with others who pretend to support the Second Amendment like Senators Kay Hagan, Mark Udall, and Mary Landrieu.

John – The Durham County (NC) Sheriffs Department finally has destroyed a handgun registry that had been in existence since 1935. While the county repealed the law authorizing the registry as mandated by the General Assembly, they were unwilling to actually destroy the records claiming they had historical relevance. It was only after Grass Roots North Carolina threatened to sue the Sheriffs Department and the county that steps were taken to shred the record cards. Clerk of Court Archie Smith and Sheriff Mike Andrews filmed the destruction of the records which can be seen on YouTube.

Rob -Connecticut got this one wrong. Scott Lazure was a security guard.  He had a concealed carry permit in Connecticut.  You may not know that Connecticut allows open carry with a concealed carry license, and Scott was open carrying.  The police certainly forgot that open carry is allowed.  In Connecticut, there is also no requirement to inform the police that you have a concealed carry permit.  Police approached Scott, and asked to see his identification.  He refused, since a citizen is not required to produce identification unless they are charged with a crime.  This went to court and Scott won.  The judge told the police to return Scott’s firearm.  That is when the issuing authority, the state Board of Firearms Permit Examiners, revoked Scott’s permit to carry.  Now that decision is headed to court.  It seems likely that Michael Lawlor, the undersecretary for criminal justice policy and planning for Governor Dannel Malloy, sent down word to deny Scott Lazure’s permit.  Governor Malloy is in a heated race for Governor against the pro-gun candidate Tom Foley.  The police need guidance and leadership.  That starts from the top, and Connecticut gun owners should be involved in this race for governor.

Comment – Mike Vanderboegh wrote about Lawlor in the past speculating that he was a KGB plant.

Rachel- This officer has his internal compass set and it guides his actions.  Officer Ben Hall was going to cite a woman for driving her 5 year old without a car seat.  The woman agreed that she needed a car seat, but said her family had fallen on some hard times recently.  Her car had been repossessed along with her daughter’s car seat.  Now they didn’t have the money for a new car seat.  The officer could have fined her and given her a ticket.  He’s done exactly that before, but not this time.  Officer Hall bought her a car seat instead.  Hall said “..what she was going through.. was something anyone could have been going through.  Giving her a ticket.. doesn’t solve the problem..  I talked to the mother about different organizations that give out car seats but it was Friday night.. and we needed something right now.”

They found a 55 dollar car seat at Walmart and Officer Hall paid for it.  I hope the rest of the officers in Emmett Township, Michigan are that thoughtful.  He has helped us all with his example.

john comment- Why talk about this on the Polite Society Podcast?

rob comment- because if we criticize the police when they get it wrong then we have to recognize them when they get it right.

John -Law enforcement understands violence, but the politicians are playing games with people’s lives in New York,  Tony Oliva writes at his blog “Bullets First”.  He documented a one man crime spree by a convicted rapist in New York.  The criminal attempted one abduction in a gun-free zone of a shopping center parking lot.  He later kidnapped and raped a second woman at gunpoint.  The criminal kidnapped a second man and made him drop him off at a college campus.  Another gun free zone. In short, a violent rapist gets released from jail, quickly gets a gun despite the New York SAFE Act, chooses gun free zones to attack victims and is finally caught on a gun free zone college campus about to repeat his crimes all over again.  This is as close to proof as we will ever find that firearms restrictions disarm honest citizens and not criminals.

Rob- Gun Quotes- “We shall have lost something vital and beyond price on the day when the state denies us the right to resort to force…” – Justice Louis Brandeis in The Brandeis Guide to the Modern World, 1941.

Rachel- Hang on everybody, we’ll be back after this

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Segment 3 Interview
Vic Kahana
Segment 4 DGUs

Rachel -This DGU was sent in by Scott who lives in Texas.  Three intruders broke into a home just west of Houston in Katy, Texas.  One of the homeowners was jumped and tackled by two masked intruders who taped his arms and feet.  They tried to get into his safe.  The homeowner played dead when the thieves tried to choke him. Quote “All I could think about was my daughter.”  The thieves ransacked the two-story home.  At one point the homeowner raised his head and the the thieves said, quote “if you look up again, we’ll kill you.”  The homeowner opened his gun safe and waited for the thieves.

Two of the thieves were airlifted to the hospital for emergency surgery because of multiple gunshot wounds.  The third suspect is being sought by police.

John -Despite its western reputation, Texas has some work to do on its firearms laws.  Four armed men entered a bar in Northwest Harris County.  Most of the crowd had gone home.  It was after closing time as the staff cleaned up EJ’s Place.  A few customers lingered.  One was a regular who routinely walked the female staff to their cars after closing.  The four criminals ordered everyone to lie face down on the ground.  That is when one of the regular customers shot and killed two of the armed thieves.  The other two criminals fled.  Under Texas law, even licensed carriers can’t have guns in bars. That could explain why the armed customer who saved lives left the bar before police arrived.

Rob -The police are minutes away when you need them.  A Lake Elsinore, California couple called police when an intruder tried to enter their house just before 11 pm Sunday night.  The male homeowner retrieved his handgun and shouted to the intruder that he was armed.  The intruder smashed in a window anyway.  The homeowner fired and the intruder fled.  Paramedics took the intruder to a local medical center where he died of his injuries.  The police do not expect to press charges against the homeowner.

rachel comment- There is some justice even in California.
john comment- I wonder if the criminal was stupid, or intoxicated.

rachel -A domestic dispute escalated and ended in a self-defense shooting.  An unmarried couple in Lima, Ohio argued in front of the woman’s parents.  First the man was asked to leave, and then the man was forced to leave.  The homeowners called police.  The man returned later after the police had left..  That is when the man and a friend, Markquis Hall and Ja’Taven Dukes began shooting at the house.  The family called police again and the pregnant woman hid with her 9 month old baby in a hall closet.  The woman is recorded on the 911 call saying, ““He’s shooting. He has a gun and he’s shooting on the inside and there’s an infant in here.  Can you all please hurry up.”  Hall and Dukes, both in their mid 20s, were shot as they broke through a window to enter the home.  Dukes died and Hall was arrested by police at St. Rita’s Medical Center seeking treatment for a gunshot wound.

comment- Thank god someone had a gun.

Rob- We have the links to each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com if you want to share them with a friend.
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Segment 5 Show close
Listener e-mail discussion

(DO NOT READ)The Polite Society download app is out on Amazon for Android and the I-phone app is in I-tunes and it is called Podcast Box.  They are located by our old name, Politics and guns.  Hot links are in our show notes.

Rachel- Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?

Rachel, that article about armed women I promised you was picked up by Ammoland and Keep and Bear Arms.

Rob John do you want to mention anything off of your blog you would like to talk about?

John- Go fund me for Paul.  Here is the link- http://www.gofundme.com/fg2dhw

(DO NOT READ)Look at the shooters club by Bob Mayne and Ben Branam.  For $75.00 a year, $6.25 a month, you get 24/7 access to some fantastic training and audio podcasts that you can’t get anywhere else.  Subscribing from the link in our show notes helps Bob and Ben as well as helps us here at the Polite Society Podcast.

(DO NOT READ)Join your local civil rights group like the New Jersey Second Amendment Society, Arizona Citizens Defense League, Gun Owners of California, Commonwealth Second Amendment,  Connecticut Citizens Defense League, Florida Carry, Georgia Carry, Georgia Gun Owners, Grass Roots North Carolina, Illinois Carry, Maryland Shall Issue,  Michigan Gun Owners , Michigan Open Carry, and  Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners.

There are Minnesota Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance,  Nebraska Firearms Owners Association,   Citizens for a Safer New Jersey, New York State Rifle & Pistol Association,  Palmetto Concealed Carry, Open Carry Texas, Texas Firearms Freedom, Texas State Rifle Association. Tennessee Firearms Association, Virginia Citizens Defense League, Virginia Open Carry,  West Virginia Citizens Defense League, wisconsingunowners.org, and Wyoming Gun Owners.

For our Canadian listeners, and their supporters, join the Canadian Shooting Sports Association and the Canadian National Firearms Association.  If YOUR state or local organization isn’t read each episode, then send us an email and we’ll add them!

Rachel: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast.  I’d like to thank (Guests) for joining us today.  co-hosts, will you be with us next time?  I’m looking forward to it.  Until the next time…

John: stay safe,
Rob: be aware,
Rachel: and we’ll see you down the road.

Episode 265 – Chris Petersen

“An armed society is a polite society.. and this is the Polite Society Podcast where we support and report on civilian self-defense.”
Paul: Welcome to the polite society podcast recorded live on Saturday, August 30, 2014. I’m Paul Lathrop
John: I’m John Richardson, and we’ll talk about self-defense news
Rob: I’m Rob Morse and we have our weekly stories of defensive gun use, so climb aboard
John: strap in
Paul: and hang on! Episode 265 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.
Show intro music.

Seg 1- Personal news from each participant
Paul – I am looking for some help with the GP2AS. If you live south of the Canadian border, East of Montana, North of Oklahoma, and West of Illinois and are interested in helping us grow, please email me. I am mainly looking for people to help with the Facebook Site and our Website right now. Mostly just doing for the great plains what we do on the show here, just on a more regional level. I am looking for people from each state, and the more involved you are in the second amendment cause in your state the better. These are NOT paid positions, but if you ask nice I MIGHT be able to get you into the GRPC at no charge. You would have to pay for your own room and get yourself there though.

John – My wife and I took a “road trip” today to Greenville, SC to tour the recently opened Cabela’s store. While not as big as some, at 105,000 sq. ft. it was plenty big. I saw a lot of nice firearms in their Gun Library. What I didn’t see in the store was .22 LR rifle ammo.

Rob- Only work and work at home. Nothing gun related. I need to buy ammunition.

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Seg 2- News


Paul – It should surprise no one that Governor Chris Christie of New Jersey has publicly stated that he doesn’t plan on intervening in the Shaneen Allen case until it has been completely adjudicated.  Christie is quoted as having said “I don’t like to intervene in the judicial process until the judicial process has an opportunity to work its way through,” he said. “I think then and only then is it the appropriate time for a governor to consider action.”  My own editorial comment is that now isn’t the time to let up. Let’s keep pouring the pressure on Christie and the other people who have bearing on this case. The number for the Governor’s office is 609- 292-6000.

John Comment- Ms. Allen’s lawyers originally hoped to raise about 25 thousand dollars through donations.  They raised that, and more.  There are also many thousands of dollars raised to put up billboards calling out the local prosecutor and asking why the Atlantic County Attorney chose to prosecute a single black mom who had no prior convictions.  She could serve up to 11 and a half years in state prison.

You can donate at SAF.org too.

Rob -In a continuation of the theme we have had over the last few episodes, there is a positive news story in what is usually termed the mainstream media that appeared recently. An article appeared on Time.com recently that advocated teaching your children to shoot.  What is even more amazing is that this appeared AFTER news broke about a shooting instructor who lost his life in a tragic incident with a child shooting a full auto uzi recently, in fact it is mentioned right at the beginning of the article. The story is well written and worth a read.

John -Jacob Smith is a junior at the University of South Carolina.  He carries an empty gun holster around the campus as a political protest and he’s not alone. Smith belongs to USC Students for Concealed Carry.  Unfortunately there is a minor crime wave on campus to fuel their cause.  Less than a week ago, the university says a student was held at gunpoint at the Horseshoe, taken to an East Quad dorm, and forced to give the suspect money. Over the weekend, a gunman was reportedly spotted near the Russell House. Most recently, a 19-year-old was the victim of a strong-armed robbery.  University President Harris Pastides has promised more patrols of uniformed and plain-clothed officers as well as more security cameras and call boxes on campus.  However, Jacob Smith, who is also in the US Navy, proposes another solution.  Smith wants the law changed so students could defend themselves.


Rob – July 1st was the first day that Idaho citizens with an enhanced permit could carry concealed on the campus of Boise State University.   Students have started to show some interest in taking classes to obtain the enhanced license necessary to carry on campus.  Idaho has liberal carry restrictions for an ordinary concealed carry license.  Course work for the enhanced license covers legal education and range time.

Paul Comment- no streets running red with blood?
Rob Comment- not a drop.

Paul- A petition is being circulated that piqued my interest a group of small business drivers is circulating a petition that drivers be able to carry in order to defend themselves. It says in part that the current patchwork of laws from state to state interferes with interstate commerce. It’s an interesting take. I don’t believe that it has much of a chance until next year at least, depending on the elections this fall, however it is worth a look. Thanks to Greg in Bremerton for sending this one in.

John- Voters in Castle Rock, Colorado voted to take gun restrictions out of the hands of politicians and appointed city managers.  The votes were finally counted in the special election, and now the voters have the authority to decide if guns are welcome on city property.  From now on, only a public vote can enact a ban on open carry in Castle Rock.

Rob- And that is how it should be. It should be citizens and not bureaucrats or politicians making the decision.

Rob- Talking about votes, California legislators defeated an ammunition registration bill by the slimmest of margins. The final vote on California bill SB53 was a tie, so the bill is dead for this year.  You would need your ammunition buyers ID card to buy ammunition.  It would have required a fingerprint check to buy ammunition.  The bill would have made it illegal to buy ammunition online.  You could be arrested for picking up my ammunition from the ground at the range.

Rob- I reached out to some of the legislators, so we might get to hear from them next episode.


John –  A tragedy happened in Omaha this week when a member of the film crew for the television show “Cops” died after being shot while filming for the show this week. Bryce Dion, a 38 year old sound engineer for the show was fatally shot while helping to film a police response to what appeared to be an armed robbery at a Wendy’s restaurant. The Omaha World Herald reported that film crews for the popular TV show wear bullet resistant vests while filming. Unfortunately a vest wasn’t enough to stop the tragedy this time.

Paul- You might remember that outdoor signs promoting firearms safety were taken down by the city of Phoenix.  Later the city lost a court case against them for violating free speech rights of Train Me Arizona.   Here is a similar situation in Washington, DC.  Project Child Safe wanted to run advertisements at major airports across the country.  The ads advocated responsible gun ownership and said, “Own It? Respect it. Secure it.”  The advertisements went up in Hartford-Springfield, Las Vegas, Little Rock, Providence and St. Louis. But Reagan National airport in Arlington, Virginia refused the advertisements.

Rob Comment- Free speech for me, but not for thee, in DC?
Paul- Comment- You’re a poet.
John- Comment- the second amendment is too political for DC?

Rob- Also in Washington DC, there was an anti-regulation article in the conservative Washington Times.  The article said that gun control is really about control, rather than about guns or the second amendment.  “(The origin of gun control) is actually the statist belief in big government. Too many activists and politicians crave the power by controlling people’s lives to the nth degree. They find fulfillment in believing that they are improving society by making better decisions than ordinary people would make.  It’s the ultimate loss of freedom when your personal safety — and your family’s — must be entrusted totally to government. Millions of Americans are saying they don’t trust government to protect them. That is why they insist upon their right of self-defense, free of government threats to restrict or remove it.”  The article is by former congressman Ernest Istook.

Paul Comment- Congressman Istook gets it!
John Comment- Think the congressman will be a the Gun Rights Policy Conference later this month?

Paul – The Clearview, Colorado Library is being sued.  The library asked Erika Sattler to leave the library after another library patron spotted the her carrying a handgun complained to a library staff member.  Erika Sattler has a concealed carry permit, but the library has a policy prohibiting weapons of any kind except those carried by law enforcement.  Rocky Mountain Gun Owners, the gun-rights lobby that was instrumental in recalling two state senators last year, is bringing the suit against the library.

Rob Comment-  The smell of bigotry is strong in the Clearview Library.

John- There are some 23 thousand firearms regulations in the United States.  Law Professor Eugene Volokh came up with a list of the laws he thought were both abusive and vulnerable to legal challenge.  The restrictions on concealed carry in public topped his list.  They affect 50 million people in California, Washington DC, Delaware, Hawaii, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York and Rhode Island.

Paul -Comment- we have our work cut out for us.

Rob- Our friends in Montana can use our help.  Gary Marbut is running for the Montana House of Representatives.  He is no stranger to Montana politics.  Gary was President of the Montana Shooting Sports Association, and helped enact 64 pro-gun bills in the past 30 years. Gary was named by SAF as the Grassroots Activist of the Year, not once, but twice.  Gary has vowed to not take any money from any special interest groups, only from individual contributors. He needs your donation to mount an effective campaign.

John Comment- until the billionaires for liberty start spending, It is up to us little guys to get the job done.

John- Statistics appear to be on our side again in Illinois, or more specifically the windy city. The Blaze reports that crime rates year to year are appearing to drop even though not one single tactic has changed in policing policies during the same period. Both robberies and burglaries are down 20 percent. The only change according to The Blaze is concealed carry licenses over 83,000 licenses have been applied for, and over 68,000 have been granted in the state since January.

Rob- The chicago cops gave up on prosecuting some crime in high crime areas.  They saved police effort for the well-to-do areas of the city.

Paul – Comment: Please remember that early this year a similar story appeared and we cautioned you not to become too optimistic and that it had been a horrifically cold and brutal winter. Sure enough this summer we are seeing murders and shootings up again.Are the numbers good news, yes. However before we claim any sort of victory other than individual DGU’s lets get a few years of numbers.

Rob- All of us need to follow the four safety rules.  All of us, all the time.  A U S Border Patrol officer had a negligent discharge at their headquarters in Marfa, Texas.  Agents and staff searched the El Cosmico hotel and campground next to the headquarters looking for damage.  The agency said the negligent discharge took place during a training session.

John Comment- So federal agents don’t have super powers with a firearm?
Rob Comment- Nope.

John Gun Quotes
“It is the privilege of every citizen, and one of his most essential rights, to bear arms, and to resist every attack upon his liberty or property, by whomsoever made.” – Roger Sherman of CT, 1790, during a speech before the US House of Reps. Sherman was a signatory to Declaration of Independence, the Articles of Confederation, and the Constitution.

Paul- Hang on everybody, we’ll be right back after this

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Segment 3 Interview with Chris Petersen of PTR industries.
Segment 4 DGUs

Rob -A man trying to rob a Dairy Queen on the south side of Albuquerque, New Mexico.   He threatened the cashier with a gun through the drive through window and demanded money from the till.  The cashier gave him the money and then ducked behind the counter. The man then asked for more money. A different employee fired at the robber five times.  The thief was struck at least once and died after being transported to University of New Mexico Hospital.  No restaurant employees were injured during the incident.  No no other suspects are at large.  Police do not expect to file charges against the store employee for firing in self-defense.

Paul- A strange DGU out of Houston, A homeowner had had his home broken into 4 years ago and he stated was just getting his sense of security back. Then earlier this week he is in bed and the doorbell rings and rings and rings. Then come loud knocks at the door, and someone trying to kick the door in. The homeowner was on the phone with 911 and had his handgun. When the bad guy broke in the homeowner ordered him to leave and then to stop advancing. when the intruder did neither the homeowner shot the intruder. The intruder falls down immediately begins crying, begging for his life and asking to call his girlfriend. At last report he was in the hospital, no word on whether he was able to call his girlfriend.

John- The Indianapolis Star reports that Indianapolis metropolitan police are investigating an early morning armed robbery in which they say the homeowner fought back and a suspect was shot.  Two or three men were trying to break into the home at about 3 in the morning. The homeowner struggled with the men over a gun and shot one of the suspects.  A woman and small child inside the home at the time were not hurt.  There were bullet holes in the home’s front door and blood on the front porch and driveway.  A short time later, a man with gunshot wounds in the leg and back showed up at the Circle K gas station and was taken to a local hospital in critical condition.

Paul – Comment it doesn’t say whether the gun belonged to the homeowner or the bad guy. It is far easier to stop a bad guy if you use your own gun rather than trying to take the bad guy’s gun from him. Also if this is a case of the bad guys bringing the gun in it kind of “Shoots holes” in the theory that if you have a gun the bad guy will just take it away from you and shoot you with it.

John – As Paul often says, nothing good happens after midnight. That was the case early Friday morning in Darlington County, SC where two armed home invaders forced their way into a home just after midnight. One beat a female on the head and hit an 11 y.o. boy several times in the face while his confederate held a second woman at gun point. Unbeknownst to the home invaders, there was a male resident asleep in another area of the house who awoke and armed himself with a rifle before checking out the commotion. He exchanged fire with the home invaders. They fled but not before killing the family dog. However, Marquis Benjamin, 25, was found dead about 75 yards from the house. Deputies later picked up the other home invader, Brandon Lunn, some time later and have charged him with multiple felonies. Sheriff Wayne Byrd said he doesn’t expect any charges to be filed against the homeowner. ““It’s more a matter of defending yourself, defending your family. Providing for the protection of your own life and your own family’s life. And their well-being.”

There is no word on the condition of either the woman or boy that was assaulted at this time.

Rob- I suspect he intruder will be charged with murder.

Paul- We have the links to each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com if you want to share them with a friend.

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Listener e-mail discussion

Paul- TJ emailed this in.

Hey Paul,
You guys have probably solved it by now, but here’s proof that you could get double the rounds of a 1911 in a 40. XDm holds 16. So, that is double. If you add the + 1, it would throw it off the “Double” claim a little, but it would still be the same as a 1911 with 1 reload.
Or, you could go with the same logic that it seemed like you were going for and use a 9mm (since it’s still mostly the same) and have 19+1 in the XDm.
Thanks Paul,


Rob- Bob Main said you have to marry the platform

Paul-  Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?

Rob- I live in San Diego County.  We have a May Issue Sheriff. I reported on the number of disarmed victims in San Diego County.  The article went out on ClashDaily, Ammoland and on my blog.

( DO NOT READ)The Polite Society download app is out on Amazon for Android and the I-phone app is in I-tunes and it is called Podcast Box.  They are located by our old name, Politics and guns.  Hot links are in our show notes.

( DO NOT READ)Look at the shooters club by Bob Mayne and Ben Branam.  For $75.00 a year, $6.25 a month, you get 24/7 access to some fantastic training and audio podcasts that you can’t get anywhere else.  Subscribing from the link in our show notes helps Bob and Ben as well as helps us here at the Polite Society Podcast.

9DO NOT READ)Join your local civil rights group like the New Jersey Second Amendment Society, Arizona Citizens Defense League, Gun Owners of California, Commonwealth Second Amendment,  Connecticut Citizens Defense League, Florida Carry, Georgia Carry, Georgia Gun Owners, Grass Roots North Carolina, Illinois Carry, Maryland Shall Issue,  Michigan Gun Owners , Michigan Open Carry, and  Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners.

There are Minnesota Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance,  Nebraska Firearms Owners Association,   Citizens for a Safer New Jersey,New York State Rifle & Pistol Association,  Open Carry Texas, Texas Firearms Freedom, Texas State Rifle Association. Tennessee Firearms Association, Virginia Citizens Defense League, Virginia Open Carry,  West Virginia Citizens Defense League, wisconsingunowners.org, and Wyoming Gun Owners.

For our Canadian listeners, and their supporters, join the Canadian Shooting Sports Association and the Canadian National Firearms Association.  If YOUR state or local organization isn’t read each episode, then send us an email and we’ll add them!

Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast.  Until next time…
Rob: stay safe,
Paul: be aware,
John: and we’ll see you down the road.

Episode 264 – Andrew Rothman and Brandon Combs

Seg 1- Personal news from each participant

John – I have to apologize to our listeners. I fully intended to be on the weekend show but Charter internet went down in our area of NC. As to firearm news, I’m still waiting for my SIRT pistol. I got an email yesterday saying it was finally shipping.

Rob- Dry practice.  Plan to buy a bunch of ammunition.

Rachel- First official week of homeschool.


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Seg 2- News

John -In our last episode we reported on the shocking news that some of the mainstream media made an honest report on women in the shooting sports.  Well it happened again.  This report is from a different mainstream media outlet, and it details the tensions between law enforcement and gun control.  The network reported on both the Constitutional Sheriffs and Peace Officers Association and on Oathkeepers.  The article cited examples of law enforcement officers refusing to impose unjust gun laws on citizens.  They gave examples where Constitutional Sheriffs stood between their citizens and federal agents who violate the Constitution.  Yes, the article was biased toward statism, but not as much as usual.  It was on NBC news.

Rob Comment- Should we buy a lottery ticket since we are so lucky?

Rob- Radly Balko, who has long studied the misuse of SWAT teams and the militarization of the police, turned his reporter’s eye to the Shaneen Allen case for the Washington Post. He found that African-Americans like Ms. Allen are disproportionately arrested for “gun crimes” at both the local level and at the federal level. He notes that most of this can be boiled down to professional discretion as is the case of Ms. Allen. Many “gun crime” prosecutions are add-ons to other crimes such as robbery and assault. Others, like Ms. Allen, are the result of a victimless crime. He concludes, “But when enforcing victimless crimes, police and prosecutorial discretion can quickly become a tool of injustice, even of systematic oppression. Unless the laws like those in New Jersey are changed, people like Brian Aitken and Shaneen Allen will continue to be wholly at the mercy and discretion of police, prosecutors and governors- and thus subject to all the biases and prejudices of the people who hold those positions.”

Rachel- Marc Rabinoff is a retired professor of human and sports performance. He grew up in New York City and then spent over 30 years in a liberal college environment at Metro State College in Denver. He was only really introduced to firearms 2 years ago when he took a firearms training class to help get over his fear of guns. He liked it. He took more classes and has bought a number of guns including now an AR-15. Having taught for over 30 years, he has now come to the conclusion that educators, after training, should be allowed to carry concealed on campus. He attributes his change to two things: his recent firearms training AND the fact that his son started Columbine High School the year after the mass murders. He says, “if I had to confront a gunman in a classroom, I’d like to be able to do more than hide under chairs or tables and helplessly watch my students being murdered. I’d like to have the option to use the intense training I have undergone and the resulting skills I’ve amassed to save lives.” It has become clear to Dr. Rabinoff that trained teachers could possibly prevent the next tragedy from occurring.

Rob – California had a mandatory waiting 10 day waiting period between when a firearm is purchased and the buyer can take possession of the firearm.  A Federal district court ruled the mandatory waiting period is unconstitutional because it violates the second amendment.  There is why that is fascinating.  *A previous law ruled that some firearms are unusual because fewer than 1 percent of the population had them.  In this case, the judge considered the law unusual because only a handful of states have mandatory waiting periods.  *A previous law ruled that the state must disarm california residents if they exhibit a mental or physical condition making them ineligible to own firearms.  Therefore, if the citizen already has a legally registered firearm or CCW permit, then the state knows he is an eligible gun owner.  The 10 day waiting period may not be applied to all eligible gun owners since that broad restriction is not narrowly tailored to the states interests.  Background checks are sufficient.

John Comment- I wonder if California will now delay the background checks so they take 10 days.

Rachel- An ordinance in Baton Rouge, Louisiana prohibited residents from keeping firearms in their parked cars while they’re inside establishments that sell alcohol.  A Federal Judge ruled that ordinance is unconstitutional and can no longer be enforced.  Ernest Taylor, of Baton Rouge, challenged the ordinance in federal district court last September after he was charged with having rifles in his car and parking in a parking lot at an establishment where alcohol was sold. The Baton Rouge police confiscated Taylor’s rifles.  Judge Brian Jackson said the city ordinance clearly forbids the possession of firearms in any parking lot of an establishment that sells alcohol.  The judge said, “Similarly, the ordinance prohibits law-abiding citizens from purchasing and possessing firearms at any establishment that sells alcohol, thereby rendering the sale of firearms at establishments like Wal-Mart a criminal act.”  The judge scheduled a hearing on October 23nd to determine the monetary damages owed to Mister Taylor.

John – Can you imagine going to the grocery store and having to leave your gun at home because of some arcane local regulation? And this in a state that has drive-thru Daiquiri shops!

Rob- Bars sell alcohol.  So does the pharmacy and every grocery store.

Rachel- You know that Governor Rick Perry sent the Texas National Guard to secure the Mexican Border. Breitbart Texas reported that soldiers would not be allowed to carry personal weapons for self-defense while off-duty.  They are considered “on duty” 24/7, but not allowed to carry their service weapon when out of uniform.  A few days after the news article appeared, the policy was changed and the Texas Guardsmen would be allowed to carry concealed weapons while off duty as long as they were properly licensed.  That leaves the small issue of how the soldiers would be able to transport their personal weapons from their home base to the border region.  You see, personal weapons are not allowed on post, nor in military transport vehicles.

Rob Comment-  There is stupid.. and there is military grade stupid..

Rachel- A- Yep.  When you absolutely, positively need stupid.. we know who to call.

Rob- I’ve met economist Thomas Sowell and Doctor Sowell both thinks clearly and calls others out for the bad ideas.  This time he focused his scorn on the gun grabbers and he mocks their poor rhetoric when they say guns are dangerous.  According to the gun grabbers, guns cause crime, and more guns cause more crime.  Armed guards also must cause more armed attacks because US presidents with armed guards are shot at a rate far higher than unarmed civilians.  Using the logic of the gun grabbers, both celebrities like Rosie O’donnell and President Barack Obama would be safer if we left them unguarded.

Quoting Sowell, “These talking points are often based on a prevailing social vision, rather than on hard facts..  Factual evidence cannot make a dent in that vision.”

John- We have some political news from Massachusetts. The two Democratic candidates for attorney general are trying to outdo each other.  One candidate, Warren Tolman, said he would require finger-print safety technology on all new handguns sold in Massachusetts.  He thinks he could do that under his authority as attorney general.  Quote “Remember, we’re regulating an unsafe product; the most unsafe product sold today is guns.”  Unfortunately, the other candidate, Maura Healey, is nearly as bad.

Rachel Comment- Sorry, Massachusetts.

Rob- Are hte state police required to follow these gun regulations?

Rob- Is there a double standard in law enforcement?  An Orlando police officer killed an innocent woman in a downtown bar early Tuesday morning.  Orlando Police Chief John Mina said “The preliminary indication is that.. Officer Eduardo Sanguino shot and fatally struck Maria Godinez.”  The officer was responding to an intoxicated man with a gun who was outside the bar.  Officers tried a tazer on the suspect.  Officers then fired nine times.  They struck the suspect and two bystanders, one fatally.

John- Comment – You or I would go to jail for a bad shoot.  I’ll bet you a dollar to a donut this officer is exonerated.

Rachel – A father in Georgia filed a lawsuit after he says the principal at his daughter’s elementary school told him he was not allowed to bring his gun on school grounds. The lawsuit claims that the principal told Hugh Myers that he could not bring his gun onto the campus of Beulah Elementary School other than when he is dropping off or picking up his daughter. The principal allegedly threatened to have him arrested if he did otherwise. Myers’ attorney John Monroe is arguing that Myers should be allowed to bring his gun to school under a new Georgia law that took effect last month. Under the law, school districts are now able, if they choose, to allow some employees to carry a firearm on school grounds under certain conditions.  The lawsuit states that Myers frequently goes to the school to participate in his daughter’s activities, and wishes to carry a gun in case of confrontation.

John Comment- What liability has the school assumed by denying citizens the right of self-defense?

Rob Comment- I’m used to “may issue” sheriffs in California.  Now it appears we have “may issue” elementary school principals in Georgia.

Rachel – Texas governor Rick Perry’s Concealed Handgun License was suspended last week after he was indicted on charges of coercion of a public servant and abuse of power. Also because of the indictment, it’s illegal for anyone to sell him firearms or ammunition. Perry is known for being a CHL supporter and famously shot a coyote while he was jogging. His self-proclaimed position on gun control is, “I am actually for gun control: Use both hands.” If he is acquitted, his license and his ability to purchase guns and ammo will be reinstated. If he is convicted of this felony offense, he permanently loses the ability to have a CHL.

John Gun Quote – “Civilized people are taught by logic, barbarians by necessity, communities by tradition; and the lesson is inculcated even in wild beasts by nature itself. They learn that they have to defend their own bodies and persons and lives from violence of any and every kind by all the means within their power.” – Cicero

Hang on everybody, we’ll be back after this
Segment 3 Interviews with Andrew Rothman and Brandon Combs

Welcome back, Brandon Combs.  You were a plaintiff in a recent California court case contesting the mandatory 10 day waiting period after you buy a firearm.  Please tell our listeners about the case and how it turned out.

Segment 4 DGUs

John – An off-duty Dallas police officer was driving with his children last Thursday evening.  He saw a woman stop her car at an intersection.  A second car pull up beside her.  The two drivers spoke briefly, then the man in the second car got out of his car and shot at the driver in the first car.  The officer drew his weapon, and shot the assailant.  Quoting the officers in the investigation, “So far it looks like the officer did the right thing.. Remember, that under Texas state law, any person can take action to stop the deadly actions of another.”  The officer has yet to be interviewed.  The woman and the assailant are in the hospital and expected to survive.

Comment- It looks like the officer saved at least one life, and perhaps several.  Thank you, officer.

John- 89 year old Arthur Lewis was robbed a few years ago.  That time he traded shots with the thief too.  This time a thief entered the Jewelry Exchange in Lake Park, Florida.  The thief pointed his revolver at Mister Lewis.  Lewis grabbed the revolver and drew his own 38.  He fired six times striking Lennard Patrick Jervis in the arm, leg, and four times in the chest.  The thief fled.  His getaway driver asked police for medical help for the thief.  The thief is expected to survive.  The thief will be arrested once he recovers and is expected to face charges of armed robbery to a business, felon in possession of a firearm, aggravated battery with a deadly weapon, and armed burglary.  The getaway driver was charged with armed robbery.  Court records show that the thief, Lennard Jervis had been arrested 20 times since 1989.

Rob -A 74 year old Omaha, Nebraska homeowner heard glass break downstairs at 1AM.  With the other three members of his family upstairs and the alarm system blaring, the homeowner grabbed his gun to investigate.  He stopped on the stairs and shouted for the intruder to leave.  When the intruder didn’t leave, the homeowner shot 29 year old Jorge Ramirez.  Ramirez is in Creighton University Medical Center and now listed in fair condition.

Rachel- This next story is from Houston, Texas where a mail carrier picked exactly the right day to stay home for a doctor’s appointment.  He heard the doorbell ring several times at about 10 in the morning.  Then someone banged on his front door.  That is when the homeowner got his gun.  He also saw an unfamiliar black Ford Mustang parked in front of his house.  The homeowner called 911.  The intruder entered the home and the homeowner confronted him. Quote “I’m telling him, get down, stop. It went bad. He kept coming toward me and didn’t want to stop.”  The homeowner shot 25-year-old Avery Powell.  Powell was out on parole and has been charged with burglary.  The homeowner said that this robbery was particularly upsetting because he was just getting a sense of security back after interrupting a home burglary four years ago.

John – A woman in Buffalo City, Wisconsin heard two men force their way through her back door at 5 am Friday morning.  They attacked the woman and threatened her at knife point.  The homeowner grabbed her handgun and fired several shots at the intruders.  The men fled.  The Buffalo County Sheriff’s department think the woman was target by the thieves.  The Sheriff’s office is asking the community for leads.

Rachel- This DGU was sent in by listener Scott.

Neighbors kept an eye out after the next door homeowner moved from his Channelview, Texas home and asked them to watch the place.  They heard glass break and the motion detector go off at about 2 in the morning.  The couple walked over, guns in hand, and found the back door broken in.  They found the burglar locked inside the bathroom.  The neighbors, husband and wife were both CHL holders.  When the burglar bolted from the bathroom, he knocked the woman into some furniture left in the home.  Both fired their handguns at the intruder.  He died in the local hospital.  Neighbors remain upset at the large number of break-ins during the last few weeks.

Thank you, Scott, for sending that in.  We have the links to each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com if you want to share them with a friend.

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Tips and tricks
Segment 5 Show close
Listener e-mail discussion

John- Email from Jeff
100% of all home invasions happen in the home.
From another in-home carrier. 😉

Rachel- Email from Greg in Bremerton

“Man scares off attempted robber of Bremerton store”
BREMERTON — The husband of a clerk at a Bremerton convenience store faced down a robber Wednesday night, pulling a gun on the suspect, who then fled, according to Bremerton police.

Officers were called to Rob’s Quick Stop, at the corner of 15th Street and Callow Avenue, about 9:20 p.m.

The suspect had entered the store wearing a bandana across his face. The clerk told the suspect to remove the bandanna, police said, but he instead pulled a gun and slammed it on the counter before pointing it at her. The clerk ducked behind the counter.

Her husband, who had witnessed the encounter, then pulled his own gun. After a brief faceoff with the suspect, both pointing their weapons at each other, the suspect fled. No money was taken.

Police believe the suspect may have gotten into a green Toyota vehicle with a blonde female driver. The suspect is described as a black or possibly Hispanic male, approximately 5 feet 4 inches tall, wearing a dark hooded sweatshirt, dark baggy jeans and black shoes.

Anyone with information about the suspect is asked to call Bremerton police at (360) 473-5228. The suspect is considered armed and dangerous, police said.

Greg, Bremerton μολὼν λαβέ molṑn labé

Rob- From listener Adam Lund-

This is regarding the Jacksonville, Fla DGU.  I agree with most of what you all said until it came to the point where everyone agreed that hunkering down and covering each other would have been the prudent thing to do.  I have to ask if you all forgot about the one sentence about a child, who was in the house at the time, was unharmed.

If there is a child in the house, hunkering down and covering each other may not be an option you have.  If I hear a noise, I need to make a run through my house just to ensure the safety of my children. …Damn spoiled kids with their own rooms!

While you all may not have meant the best course of action in this instance was to hunker down in their bedroom and wait for the police to show up, this is what it sounded like.
Other than that, love the podcast!
– Adam

( DO NOT READ)The Polite Society download app is outon Amazon for Android and the I-phone app is in I-tunes and it is called Podcast Box.  They are located by our old name, Politics and guns.  Hot links are in our show notes.

( DO NOT READ)Look at the shooters club by Bob Mayne and Ben Branam.  For $75.00 a year, $6.25 a month, you get 24/7 access to some fantastic training and audio podcasts that you can’t get anywhere else.  Subscribing from the link in our show notes helps Bob and Ben as well as helps us here at the Polite Society Podcast.

9DO NOT READ)Join your local civil rights group like theNew Jersey Second Amendment Society,Arizona Citizens Defense League,Gun Owners of California, Commonwealth Second Amendment,  Connecticut Citizens Defense League,Florida Carry, Georgia Carry,Georgia Gun Owners,Grass Roots North Carolina,Illinois Carry, Maryland Shall Issue,  Michigan Gun Owners , Michigan Open Carry, and  Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners.

There are Minnesota Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance,  Nebraska Firearms Owners Association,   Citizens for a Safer New Jersey,New York State Rifle & Pistol Association,  Open Carry Texas, Texas Firearms Freedom, Texas State Rifle Association. Tennessee Firearms Association, Virginia Citizens Defense League, Virginia Open Carry,  West Virginia Citizens Defense League, wisconsingunowners.org, and Wyoming Gun Owners.

For our Canadian listeners, and their supporters, join theCanadian Shooting Sports Association and theCanadian National Firearms Association.  If YOUR state or local organization isn’t read each episode, then send us an email and we’ll add them!

John: That wraps up this episode of the Polite Society Podcast.  Until the weekend show…

Rob: stay safe,
Rachel: be aware,
John: and we’ll see you down the road.

Episode 262 – Brandon Combs

“An armed society is a polite society.. and this is the Polite Society Podcast where we support and report on civilian self-defense.”
Rachel: Welcome to the polite society podcast recorded live on Wednesday, August 20th, 2014. I’m Rachel Malone
Rob: I’m Rob Morse. On tonights show we have an interview with Brandon Combs of the Firearms Policy Coalition.
John: I’m John Richardson, and we’ll talk about self-defense news
Gary: I’m Gary Daugherty and we have our weekly stories of defensive gun use
Rachel: so climb aboard
Rob: strap in
John: and hang on!
Gary: Episode 262 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.
Show intro music.

Seg 1- Personal news from each participant
Rachel- Testified at a hearing for a proposal to allow alcohol sales at Texas gun shows. More on that in the news section, but essentially, I tried to take a big picture look at the proposal and address the lack of validity of TABC establishing these regulations, rather than the stupidity of the regulations themselves. Since I was on, we successfully ran Academy 31 – our girls’ camp – and then broke our A/C unit (in Texas in August) and are looking forward to having that replaced tomorrow. 🙂

Rob- I did some dry fire on the move. I donated some money to put billboards up in Atlantic County, New Jersey. That is where Shaneen Allen is being prosecuted. Also, my article about modern rifles being outlawed in Maryland was mentioned on Armed American Radio.

John- I’m am waiting for my SIRT 107 to arrive. M&P version of the SIRT training pistol. I think it shipped on Monday! I may be able to have a report on it by the weekend. Like Rob, I donated some money to help publicize Shaneen Allen’s case.

Gary- Another training class on Sunday. I have an ongoing training class for me scheduled for next month.

Seg 2- News



Gary- Here is a chance to bring some needed justice to New Jersey.  The Second Amendment Foundation, Tom Gresham of Gun Talk, and the NJ2AS are working together on the Shaneen Allen case.  They are putting up billboards asking citizens why the County Prosecutor wants to put Shaneen Allen into prison for 10 years.  Add a note “New Jersey Billboards” when you donate at the Second Amendment Foundation website.

Rob-  I donated.

John – And so did I.  Donations are tax-deductible.

Rachel- Open Carry Texas has received a lot of criticism in the last few months.  One comment was that Open Carry Texas only walks in rich white conservative neighborhoods.  The implied criticism is that armed defense is only for rich white people.  Open Carry Texas thinks self-defense is for everyone, so they planned a walk in Houston’s fifth ward.  Democrat Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee was quite upset, perhaps because the crime ridden fifth ward is part of her district.  The congresswoman said, “On behalf of many thousands who live in this community that are minding their daily business, Open Carry’s efforts need to stop, need to be canceled, they need to end.”  Some residents of the fifth ward threatened Open Carry Texas.  I guess the Progressive Congresswoman’s tolerance of diverse opinions and practices stops at armed self-defense.  Fortunately, groups like the Armed Citizen Project and Open Carry Texas will exercise their freedom of speech and freedom of assembly without the Congresswoman’s approval.

John- Comment- they can and they will advocate for self-defense for everyone.


Gary- SYRACUSE, N.Y. — One hundred and five people will be laid off at Remington Arms in Ilion, New York.  The layoffs are part of Remington’s plansto move two assembly lines to Alabama, which was announced in May.  Original reports said there wouldn’t be any job losses in anti-gun New York.  Those reports were wrong.

Rob- Last week Massachusetts passed more laws that restrict the sales of long guns.  This week, Savage Arms announced it will lay off 95 people from its plant in Westfield, Massachusetts.  The 120 year old firm has been in and out of bankruptcy for about the last 30 years. It is now owned by Alliant Technologies who also makes Federal ammunition.

John-Comment-  maybe the timing is only coincidental.

Rob- Comment- Maybe.

John- Gordon Jenkins was mayor of Monticello Village, New York.  This mayor from the Hudson valley area was also part of the Bloomberg group, Mayors Against Illegal Guns, or as John calls it, Mayor Bloomberg’s Illegal Mayors.   Mayor Jenkins is now in the Sullivan County Jail along with Building Inspector James Snowden.  Charges related to the demolition of the old village court building.  Both men face felony charges of receiving bribes, criminal mischief, and two counts of conspiracy.  They are also charged with misdemeanors of official misconduct, criminal nuisance, and under the Department of Environmental Conservation law, endangering public health or safety.  Mayor Jenkins was also charged with the felony of intimidating a witness in connection with a separate incident in Fallsburg, New York.

Rachel- It was a tough weekend in nearby New York City, the gun control capital of the eastern seaboard.  19 people were shot on Saturday and Sunday.  Two died of their gunshots and two remain hospitalized in critical condition.  This brings the number of murders up to 678 from 605 recorded this date in 2013.

Rob- Also in New York City.  Mayor Bill de Blasio announced a $12.7 million “Gun Violence Crisis Management System”.  The plan uses gang members as “violence interrupters”.  This comes as the city faces a 12 percent uptick in shootings this year.  Remember that the overall rate of criminal use of firearms is falling across the rest of the US.  Also remember the experience of Chicago, where recycled gang members continued their life of crime once they were being paid as “violence interrupters”.

Speaking of the failed program in Chicago:

Gary – New evidence has emerged that contradicts Governor Quinn’s claim that he shut down a failed and mismanaged “Neighborhood Recovery Initiative.”  Instead, House and Senate leaders and members of the Legislative Audit Commission, are pointing to a last-minute $20 million lump sum allocation buried in the state’s labor department budget. They are calling for an accounting of what appears to be a virtually identical re-branding version of the scandal-plagued program.

Rob- The California legislature is working on laws that would allow the government to seize your firearms if someone says you’re violent or mentally disturbed, or a danger to yourself or others.  It seems that even experts have a hard time telling who is at risk of violence and who isn’t.

John – The high school student who murdered another student at his suburban Denver, Colorado high school last year had been deemed “not a high-level of threat” after shouting a death threat against his debate coach three months earlier.  Disciplinary records show that the murderer was allowed to return to class less than a week after the murderer was demoted from captain of the debate team and said he would kill the coach.  Documents show the murderer showed no remorse for making the threat.  The murderer planned to kill the debate coach when he entered Arapahoe High School on December 13th with a shotgun, a machete and homemade bombs.  The murderer killed a 17-year-old girl before taking his own life in the school library as security officers closed in.

Rachel- Comment- They misjudged this teenager and people died as a result.

Rob Comment- True, but they also disarmed the school staff and people died as a result.

Rachel Comment- Yeah.

Rachel- A Texas school district gave the final approval for armed staff in the classroom.  The Sadler and Southmayd Consolidated Independent School District adopted the armed staff program back in April.  The Board selected a group of teachers and staff from a list of volunteers.  The volunteers underwent a psychological evaluation and 24 hours of specialized concealed carry training over the summer.  Monday night, the Board reviewed the results and approved the newly trained staff members to carry on campus.  School Superintendent Tommy Hunter said the district would not to reveal which staff may be armed.  “We don’t want to help potential shooters.. The teachers are going to know who is armed, but the student body is not.”

Rob- 24 HOURS?

Rachel-The Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission held a public hearing yesterday to consider testimony on proposed regulation changes. TABC was approached by the Dallas Safari Club, who wanted to be able to sell alcohol at events where guns are also sold. The original understanding was that the new rules would require all gun shows and other events where guns were displayed or transferred to follow strict new regulations in order to allow alcohol to be sold, whether or not they actually sold alcohol. An announcement at the hearing

suggested that the commission is backing off and now offering a proposition where event planners could choose to not sell alcohol and still go with the former regulations. The events in question would include gun shows as well as fundraising banquets, raffles, or historical reenactments. The restrictions include a ban on any live ammo (gun shows with no ammo for sale, anyone?), firearms that must stay dissembled and out of the hands of the public (so you can’t handle a gun before buying it, and the transfer must occur later). Sounds like a stupid way to run a gun show to me….

I testified at this hearing, along with a dozen other gun rights leaders from the Texas open carry movement, other gun rights lovers, and – on the other side – Dallas Safari Club and Moms Demand Action Bloomberg representative.

Rob- What about NRA banquets where guns and alcohol are routinely present.

John- Gun Quotes

“No tendency is quite so strong in human nature as the desire to lay down rules of conduct for other people.”
— William Howard Taft

John- Hang on everybody, we’ll be right back after this

Segment 3 Interview with Brandon Combs of the Firearms Policy Coalition
We reach out online. Our new kiosk is a way to reach out to those who are not online. No gun owner left behind! Gun Rights Action Station (GRAS) It links to local legislative news.
Start with gun dealers, gun ranges, and also pro-gun industries!
Cal gun laws

Segment 4 DGUs

Gary-  While this story is a defensive gun use, it can almost be considered a “Why I Carry” story as well, because the victim may have been able to avoid hours of abuse if a firearm was more accessible.

Ivy Winter Reutzel-Morrell alleges that Anthony Ray Tullis, 25, who also lived in her home, took her into a bedroom and assaulted her for over five hours.  Tullis also threatened Reutzel-Morrell’s life during the altercation.  Fortunately, the victim was able to gain control a rifle during the terrifying incident and shoot the suspect. He was dead by the time authorities arrived.  This also backs up Paul and my assertion of pants on, gun on.

Rachel- Comment- or for women, skirt on, gun on.

John – A 38 y.o. Shasta County, California man with a criminal history went to a birthday party for a child that he shared with his ex-girlfriend Amanda Rizer. He became enraged to find Matthew Robinson, 32, of Redding also in attendance at the party. Robinson had recently started a relationship with Ms. Rizer. The unidentified former boyfriend left the party but returned 20 minutes later declaring he was going to take the child. He advanced on Robinson who fired a warning shot from his .38 revolver. The ex-boyfriend then went to his car and retrieved what appeared to be a 9mm pistol and pointed it at Robinson. Fearing for his life, Robinson shot the ex-boyfriend once in the chest. The ex was transported to Mercy Med. Center in Redding where he later died. Deputies said the 9mm pistol turned out to be a replica and that they have determined that Robinson fired in self-defense.

Rob Comment – Don’t fire warning shots and don’t threaten someone who you know has an actual firearm with a toy gun. Neither are a good idea!

Rachel-  Innovative Optique sells glasses and sunglasses in Fox Point, Wisconsin.  The store had been robbed before.  The store owner expressed his concern for his safety and for his employees.  At about noon on Friday, 22 year old Joshua Drake of Milwaukee tried to rob the store at gunpoint.  The gunman fired, and an armed employee shot back and killed him.  The thief was pronounced dead at the scene.  The employee wasn’t hurt.

Rob- A Phoenix, Arizona woman pulled into her driveway.  The 63 year old driver was approached by a 23 year old Michael Medina.  Medina approached the driver’s door and asked to use her phone.  She said no, and Medina dragged her out of the car and threw her to the ground.  Then he got into her car.  A couple who lives next door saw the suspect walking up to their neighbor and thought something was wrong.  The woman went up to the vehicle and opened the passenger side door.  She was knocked to the ground as the carjacker drove away.  The man saw his wife knocked to the ground and fired several shots at the suspect in the vehicle.

The suspect fled the area in the vehicle, but he crashed and died a short distance away.  The carjacker did not know the victims.  Both the car owner and the neighbor were briefly hospitalized for bruises and head injuries.

Gary- 21 year old Michael Williams Little had broken up with his 18 year old girlfriend, Ashley Womack, a few weeks ago.  Little was a police cadet and went to his ex-girlfriend’s home near Knoxville, Tennessee.   Cadet Little argued with the family.  He left and came back with a handgun.  He then shot a family friend, his ex-girlfriend, and his ex-girlfriend’s mother.  The ex-girlfriend’s brother retrieved a 22 caliber rifle and shot the gunman several times.

The family friend was dead when authorities arrived.  Little was pronounced dead when he arrived at the hospital.

John Comment-  I’m glad the police are not the only ones who have a gun.

Gary Comment- I bet the victims wish they were carrying.

John- You would sleep during the day if you work nights.  That is why a homeowner was startled awake at 2 in the afternoon as Justin O’neal Hall kicked in his front door.  The homeowner woke to see the intruder standing in his livingroom.  He also recognised Justin Hall from high school.  They exchanged words, and the homeowner told Hall he was going to grab his shoes before they went together and examined the damage to his front door.  The homeowner grabbed his shoes.. and his pistol.  He held Hall at gunpoint until police arrived. Hall was charged with second-degree burglary and police believe he may be connected to other recent home break-ins in the area.  I noticed the newspaper already had his picture on file.

Rob- Comment-  A perfect case of armed self-defense with no shots fired.

Rachel Comment-  No, it would have been perfect if he’d been armed when he came out of his bedroom.

Gun check: it may or may not be 10PM where you are….regardless of the time, do you know where your gun is?
Rachel- We have the links to each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com if you want to share them with a friend.

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Segment 5 Show close

( DO NOT READ)The Polite Society download app is outon Amazon for Android and the I-phone app is in I-tunes and it is called Podcast Box.  They are located by our old name, Politics and guns.  Hot links are in our show notes.

John – Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?

Rob- I have an article out on disarming crazy people.. like our California politicians.

John do you want to mention anything off of your blog you would like to talk about?

John – I had a post regarding a comment by the former NYC Chief Medical Examiner Dr. Michael Baden. He was employed by the family of Ferguson, MO teen Michael Brown to perform an independent autopsy. He determined that Officer Darren Wilson had shot Brown 6 times in the front of the body. He made that comment that ‘You’re not supposed to shoot so many times,”.  The reality is that in a self-defense situation, you shoot as many times as is needed to stop the threat whether it is one, six, or 26 shots.

Gary – Check out my new website at www.FirearmSI.com

( DO NOT READ)Look at the shooters club by Bob Mayne and Ben Branam.  For $75.00 a year, $6.25 a month, you get 24/7 access to some fantastic training and audio podcasts that you can’t get anywhere else.  Subscribing from the link in our show notes helps Bob and Ben as well as helps us here at the Polite Society Podcast.

(DO NOT READ)Join your local civil rights group like theNew Jersey Second Amendment Society,Arizona Citizens Defense League,Gun Owners of California, Commonwealth Second Amendment,  Connecticut Citizens Defense League,Florida Carry, Georgia Carry,Georgia Gun Owners,Grass Roots North Carolina,Illinois Carry, Maryland Shall Issue,  Michigan Gun Owners , Michigan Open Carry, and  Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners.

There are Minnesota Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance,  Nebraska Firearms Owners Association,   Citizens for a Safer New Jersey,New York State Rifle & Pistol Association,  Open Carry Texas, Texas Firearms Freedom, Texas State Rifle Association. Tennessee Firearms Association, Virginia Citizens Defense League, Virginia Open Carry,  West Virginia Citizens Defense League, wisconsingunowners.org, and Wyoming Gun Owners.

For our Canadian listeners, and their supporters, join theCanadian Shooting Sports Association and theCanadian National Firearms Association.  If YOUR state or local organization isn’t read each episode, then send us an email and we’ll add them!

Rob: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast. Until the weekend show…
John: stay safe,
Rachel: be aware,
Gary: and we’ll see you down the road.

Episode 253 – Jeff Knox

“An armed society is a polite society.. and this is the Polite Society Podcast where we support and report on civilian self-defense.”
Paul: Welcome to the polite society podcast recorded live on Saturday, July 19th, 2014. I’m Paul Lathrop
Rob: I’m Rob Morse and we have an interview with Jeff Knox, Director of the firearms coalition.
Gary Daughetry: I’m Gary Daughetry, and we have our weekly stories of defensive gun uses
Gary Harpster: I’m Gary Harpster, and we have our usual gun news
Rob: so climb aboard
Gary D: strap in
Gary H: and hang on!
Paul: Episode 253 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.
Show intro music.

Seg 1- Personal news from each participant

Paul: Museum story. My Son’s Birthday party story
Gary: I ordered a new left handed holster for personal and class training.
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Seg 2- NewsNews_Partner_white

1 Paul: Nick Leghorn over at The Truth About Guns reports that Remington has pulled all information about the R51, the handgun released this past winter just before Shot Show, off of it’s website. I REALLY wanted to like this gun, but was concerned when there were no examples available to fire at media day at the range. If true that it is going away  it is too bad. I really liked the style of the gun, it was kind of retro and futuristic at the same time. When I held the display model at the Remington booth it was hard to make the grip safety work reliably and the red dot laser was even harder to make actuate, but I thought that those things could be worked on. Alas it looks like Remington is not going to give the R51 a second try.

2 Rob- California Governor Brown signed a bill into law banning single shot handguns. This is an anti-gun solution in search of a problem.  Single shot firearms are not used in crimes.  Nor are firearms converted from single shot back to normal semi-automatic operation.  So why write and pass such a law?  This was a must pass bill for anti-gun Democrat legislators who are eager to secure campaign funding.  Money talks in the Golden State, particularly anti-gun  campaign donations.

Gary D- Maybe the hunters that think they don’t need the NRA will join now that they can’t use their Thompson/Center Encore anymore.

Paul- We have a lot of news from an epidemic of failed gun free zones.

3 Gary H- Jack in the Box restaurants all across the country continue to be an easy hunting ground for criminals since the company requested that gun owners eat elsewhere.  A Jack in the Box in Honolulu, Hawaii was robbed by a suspect carrying a rifle.  A Houston Texas Jack in the Box was held up by two armed robbers in broad daylight.  Including another holdup in Tennessee, two people were shot in some of the latest Jack in the Box robberies.

Brian Luscomb is Vice President for Jack in the Box.  He said, “Creating a warm and inviting environment for all of our guests and employees is a top priority for Jack in the Box.

The presence of guns inside a restaurant could create an uncomfortable situation for our guests and employees.. and lead to unintended consequences.”

Paul- Mister Luscomb, your gun free zone does not mean what you think it means.

Gary D- Another Bloomberg success story.


4 Rob- Speaking of Bloomberg success stories.. Target Department Stores have been targeted by thieves now that concealed carriers are not welcome.  A Target customer was robbed at gunpoint by several thieves in the parking lot at a Georgia Target store.  In another Georgia Target store, a woman was severely beaten and her car stolen from the store parking garage.  On the west coast, a Target security guard approached a man for shoplifting in an Oregon store.  The thief pointed his gun at the security guard and fled.

Target’s interim CEO, John Mulligan, said: “Bringing firearms to Target creates an environment that is at odds with the family-friendly shopping and work experience we strive to create.”

Paul- Being robbed and mugged isn’t exactly the family-friendly experience I want when I shop.


5 Gary D- Police are searching for two suspects who robbed a Chicago Transit Authority train at gunpoint.  In case you forgot, public transit is another no-carry zone for honest Illinois gun owners.  These latest robberies occurred around 4 in the afternoon on the Orange Line train between the Halsted and Roosevelt stop.  This is the train typically used by tourists who fly into Chicago’s Midway airport.  The robbers boarded the train and announced an armed robbery. They robbed several people of an iPad, two laptops, an iPhone, bank cards and $105 dollars in cash.  The thieves fled when the train arrived at the Roosevelt station. The CTA did not make a statement other than to say it’s a “police matter.”  I call it another gun free zone not working in Chicago

Paul- Maybe you can excuse a corporate executive for not understanding the nature of self-defense, but when the executive is paid that much, he should ask the experts.

6 Paul- Here is a store that should know about self-defense.. and about customer service.  Absolute Outdoors in New Kent, Virginia has a large sign in their front window that says “No loaded guns”.  Ed Levine from the Virginia Citizens Defense League asked the store how the policy was enforced.  The store’s owner had this shockingly rude answer.

“You need to add to your list of titles:
In desperate need of a life
life long member of the tiny dick club
Just plain stupid
Now that better describes you.

I’m usually there everyday so you should drop by and see me little man.”

Most guns stores simply ask you to keep your loaded firearm holstered, but not Absolute Outdoors in New Kent, Virginia.

7 Gary H- We have another advocate for gun-free zones in Missouri.  Missouri Governor Jay Nixon vetoed legislation that allowed specially trained teachers to carry concealed guns on school grounds.  Nixon said armed teachers jeopardize safety.  The Democrat governor waited until the legislative session closed before he issued his veto.  Now the Republican-led Legislature has to wait until the September session to attempt an override.

If trained teachers jeopardize students, do the Missouri Capitol Police jeopardize safety of the Governor and legislators too?

8 Rob- We don’t often think of a county as being a gun free zone, but I live in such a county in California.  San Joaquin County, California has similar restrictions with only a few hundred carry permits.  Those of us who have to live in gun-free California counties are told that the police will be there to protect us.  There is an important difference between protecting yourself and waiting for the police.  Last week that  difference mattered.

Three armed gunmen tried to rob a bank in San Joaquin county.  A deputy spotted the robbery in progress, but he was outside the bank and the citizens inside the bank were unarmed.  The robbers took three hostages.  Two of the hostages were badly injured as the robbers tried to escape, and one of the hostages was killed by gunfire.

The police will be there in minutes, and sometimes seconds are the difference between life and death.

Gary D- The robbery took place in Stockton, and the robbers were using AK pistols.  More failure of gun control.. just like Chicago.

9 Gary D- We reported on this story a few episodes ago, but the story of Shaneen Allen goes on.  Shaneen drove into New Jersey where she was stopped by a policeman for a lane change.  Unfortunately, she was carrying a firearm, and like an honest citizen, she informed the New Jersey officer who stopped her.  She was arrested since there is no reciprocity between New Jersey and Pennsylvania where Shaneen was licensed.  Shaneen is a single mom with two children and two jobs.  She works late and was robbed twice this year.  She took her firearms safety class and had her carry license for only a few weeks.

Think about this for a moment.  This young woman drove a car that is far more powerful than any handgun.  She used a drivers license issued by Pennsylvania and recognized all across the country.. and even recognized in New Jersey.  She is also recognized as a US citizen from a birth certificate issued in another town.

As I said, Allen had a license to carry a concealed weapon issued in Pennsylvania.  That licensing process is far more rigorous than getting her drivers license or her citizenship papers, particularly for a concealed carry license from Philadelphia where Allen lives.  New Jersey ignores that license and branded her a criminal.

I don’t know if you remember speed traps in the south and southwest where small towns would use law enforcement to fine and imprison strangers.  This is the same miscarriage of justice inflicted on an innocent woman.  Allen faces a felony weapons possession charge and faces three year in New Jersey prison.  This single mom was already jailed for 46 days before she could make bail.  She was about to accept a plea deal and serve the three years when she got a good lawyer.  This is bigotry against honest gun owners.

Show me the victim if she is a criminal.

There is a defense fund on Facebook, and I hope you will call the National Rifle Association and Gun Owners of America asking them to help her.  You are a member, aren’t you?

10 Paul- Anti-gun groups in Nevada want to put an initiative on the ballot to legislate universal firearms background checks.  The Las Vegas Review Journal came out against the measure in an editorial.  They said the gun control proponents must “overcome the strongest argument against expanded background checks: the fact that determined lawbreakers who want a gun will not respect the laws written to disarm them.”  The editorial then went on to cite the many examples of criminals either avoiding or passing background checks.

11 Gary H- Detroit has shown that armed citizens save lives.. and might save their city as well.  Detroit has a decreasing tax base and huge municipal debts.  Much of Detroit is abandoned, and the police can’t even patrol the ruins.  Despite those tough conditions, robberies are down 37 percent year to year.  Breakins are down 22 percent and there have been 30 percent fewer carjackings.  It isn’t that the Detroit economy is suddenly so much better.  What changed is that Detroit citizens are harder targets for criminals.

Police Chief James Craig said, “Criminals are getting the message that good Detroiters are armed and will use their weapon.  I don’t want to take away from the good work our investigators are doing, but I think part of the drop in crime, and robberies in particular, is because criminals are thinking twice that citizens could be armed.”

Paul- This week’s quote come from Lysander Spooner.  “A man is no less a slave because he is allowed to choose a new master once in a term of years.”

Hang on everybody, we’ll be right back after this
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Segment 3 Interviews

Interview with Jeff Knox, Director of the Firearms Coalition talking about universal background checks.  Red/Green stripe is an old proposal.  A green “G” is a known good guy.  There are a few obvious questions.  Who pays?  Will any period of review, say 5 years, satisfy the gun grabbers?

Segment 4 DGUs
1 Gary H- It is good to have friends with guns, even if they are strangers.  Donald Sacco was at an Orange County, Florida bus stop.  That is where he was attacked and robbed by Thomas Thorpe.  Thorpe Stabbed Sacco in the hand, leg and abdomen.  A passing motorist saw the attack and stopped his car.  The motorist drew his firearm and held Thorpe at gunpoint while other witnesses helped the wounded Sacco.  Thorpe was taken into custody by deputies and charged with attempted first-degree murder, aggravated battery with a deadly weapon, robbery and carrying a concealed weapon.  The victim was transported to the hospital in stable condition.

2 Rob-  With friends like this, it is time to change occupations.  A homeowner in a North Houston suburb went for his shotgun when three armed men broke into his home.  One of the thieves grabbed the shotgun and the two wrestled for control of the long gun.   That is when the thief accidentally fired his handgun and struck another thief.  The wounded thief was captured by deputies and transported to the hospital.  The two other thieves escaped.

Distance is your friend in a fight.  Keep your firearms close and your enemies far away.

I’m not much of a long-gun guy yet.  Is it true that the only use of your handgun is to fight your way to your long gun?

3 Paul –

This article was e-mailed into Guns Save Lives.

A woman in Gainsville, Texas confronted a man who wandered into her yard.  She thought the intruder was high on drugs because of the way he acted when she repeatedly asked him to leave.  At that point the intruder threw his hat on the ground, and came at her. The homeowner’s 13 year old boy had his Ruger 10/22 in hand, but did not have to fire a shot.  The intruder turned and ran at the sight of the firearm.  The homeowner’s 15 year old daughter called 911, but it took the police an additional 8 minutes to arrive.

This incident is typical of most defensive gun uses.  You only call the police after the threat is apparent.  The sight of a firearm stops most attackers.  The police arrive to take a report after the event is over.

Long guns are better than nothing.

4 Gary D- Two teenagers — a 15-year-old and a 17-year-old — tried to steal Victoria Davison’s car last month while she was in it, “I want the keys, car, everything,” commanded one of the teens.  Davison hesitated, prompting one teen to tell the other, “Go get the cannon” — a reference to his gun. But Davison had a “cannon” of her own and pulled it out of her gym bag. She shot the 15-year-old. “I shot the one that was in front of me. The one in the back of me, he said a curse word, and then he looked at his friend, and then he ran off while his friend was on the ground,” Police are investigating what may be “dozens” of carjackings and robberies tied to the teens. The wounded 15 year-old is also connected to a violent shooting where he shot a 43-year-old man in the face following an attempted carjacking.

I’m sorry everybody but I am a trainer and I tend to see teaching moments. She says in the interview that she had the gun in a bag and struggled to get the zipper open and the gun out. Another reason to if at all possible on-body carry if you can.

Victoria Davison interview

Teens accused in several carjackings seen together at Children’s hospital

5 Gary H-  A guest at the Grand Hyatt Hotel on the river walk in San Antonio, Texas had to use deadly force to defend himself and a woman when a mentally ill man threatened and then charged the pair. Torres went to the sixth floor of the hotel at 1 p.m. and started breaking lights in the hallway, according to police. He started to bang on a door, and when a witness opened it, Torres said he was “looking for someone to kill,” police said.

The witness slammed the door, so Torres banged on another one, police said.

The man inside of that room waited a moment to open the door, and when he did, Torres charged him. The hotel guest drew a concealed handgun, fired one shot, and struck Torres in the chest, stopping him just outside of the door.

No charges have been filed or are currently expected in the case.

Torres’ family says the man was suffering from an unidentified mental illness.

Gary – Teaching moment – If a stranger is pounding on your door, don’t open it.

6 Rob -Two homeless Oregon men thought someone reported them to the Bureau of Land Management as trespassers, so they went to the man’s home armed with a baseball bat and took turns beating him.  The beating caused extensive head, face and back injuries. In an attempt to escape after the attack, the victim grabbed a shotgun from his home and fired two rounds into the air. The suspects fled and called police to report that they had been shot at. They were later arrested and charged with assault.

Gary D- I guess that is the Joe Biden defense.

This one was sent in by Greg in Bremmerton,

From the NBCLosAngeles.com site.
A market robber is believed to have accidentally killed his accomplice during a fight with the owner of the El Sereno store they were robbing Friday, the Los Angeles Police Department said.
A 21-year-old man allegedly shot a 35-year-old man at the market at 11:15 a.m., according to police.
“There was an altercation with the store owner, who tried to take the rifle away,” LAPD officer Nuria Vanegas said.
The man who was shot was wielding a machete, police said.
The men’s names were not immediately released.
The store owner was uninjured.

Paul- We have the links to each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com if you want to share them with a friend.

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Segment 5 Show close

Listener e-mail discussion

Gary H- Email #1 From Ken in Arizona
I thought you’d like to know that Target’s “no guns allowed” policy is actually working! I just bought a new cell phone, and 2 new tablet computers, and a few accessories to go along with them. And not once did I ever consider going into Target to shop. Their policy worked. It kept me and my gun out. Apparently, smarter people than I are making good decisions after all.
Who says a “gun-free zone” doesn’t work.
Ken in AZ

Gary D- We got a message from John Willett of the Bold Departure podcast
Hi, What’s up guys? I was just listening to the episode with Russell Smith’s proposal for firearms purchases. Frankly, moving to combine photo ID and ability to purchase a firearm is a huge step in the wrong direction. I will add that we shouldn’t generate proposals based on the worst state’s laws. I have seen a proposal that makes a lot of sense. Rather than using the failed paradigm of relying on laws that prohibit activity, we utilize technology and an incentive for folks to conduct their own background check prior to a sale via a website that performs the same function as NICS does now. The website gives them a code that is good when combined with info from their existing ID for firearm purchases for a predetermined amount of time. The incentive is that the seller of the firearm would keep documentation of the sale with the code and that would provide them legal immunity against criminal action related to the sale.

Paul- The Polite Society download app is out on Amazon for Android and the I-phone app is in I-tunes and it is called Podcast Box.  They are located by our old name, Politics and guns.  Hot links are in our show notes.

Rob- Also please check out Kathy Jackson’s Cornered Cat training classes. Go to Cornered Cat dot com for more classes and details.

Gary H- Look at the shooters club by Bob Mayne and Ben Branam.  For $75.00 a year, $6.25 a month, you get 24/7 access to some fantastic training and audio podcasts that you can’t get anywhere else.  Subscribing from the link in our show notes helps Bob and Ben as well as helps us here at the Polite Society Podcast.

Join your local civil rights group like the New Jersey Second Amendment Society, Arizona Citizens Defense League, Gun Owners of California, Commonwealth Second Amendment,  Connecticut Citizens Defense League, Florida Carry, Georgia Carry, Georgia Gun Owners, Grass Roots North Carolina, Illinois Carry, Maryland Shall Issue,  Michigan Gun Owners , Michigan Open Carry, and  Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners.

There are Minnesota Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance,  Nebraska Firearms Owners Association,   Citizens for a Safer New Jersey,New York State Rifle & Pistol Association,  Open Carry Texas, Texas Firearms Freedom, Texas State Rifle Association. Tennessee Firearms Association, Virginia Citizens Defense League, Virginia Open Carry,  West Virginia Citizens Defense League, wisconsingunowners.org, and Wyoming Gun Owners.
For our Canadian listeners, and their supporters, join the Canadian Shooting Sports Association and the Canadian National Firearms Association.  If YOUR state or local organization isn’t read each episode, then send us an email and we’ll add them!

Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast. Until the ( mid-week / weekend ) show…
Rob: stay safe,
Gary H: be aware,
Gary D: and we’ll see you down the road.

Episode 226 – Roadgunner Podcast

Intro- “An armed society is a polite society.. and this is the Polite Society Podcast where we support and report on civilian self-defense.”

Paul: Welcome to the polite society podcast recorded on Saturday, April fifth, 2014. I’m Paul Lathrop
John: I’m John Richardson, and tonight we have an interview with The Un-Named Trucker of the Roadgunner Podcast
Rob: I’m Rob Morse and we have news, DGUs, and listeners sent in some e-mails for us to talk over, so climb aboard.
John: strap in.
Paul: and hang on! Episode 226 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now. Show intro music.

Seg 1 Personal news from each participant Rob- John and I were going to run this show by ourselves, but Paul made it home. Excuse me while I tell the dancing girls they can’t be on the shoot this time. I dry practiced during the week because I knew I’d shoot a steel competition today. I also helped a couple shop for a new gun. She has small hands. His are large. She wants to concealed carry. He wants to compete. Somebody not gonna be happy. I also received one e-mail from a listener to meet at the NRA convention, and one e-mail asking if I’d speak at a local gun group.

John – After 3 months, I got rid of the boot cast on my broken ankle and have switched to a brace. It looks like I’ll be able to go to the range again! I wouldn’t wish this on my worst enemies even if they were gun prohibitionists.

Rob- John, you are a generous man.

Paul-Break for ABN advertisement

Seg 2- News  News_Partner_white.jpg

John – In sad news, Otis McDonald, Second Amendment champion and lead plaintiff in the case that bears his name, McDonald v. Chicago, died Friday after a long fight against cancer. He was 79. Mr. McDonald is survived by his wife Laura and their children; Chandra, Sheila, Jessie Marie and Dorsey, and several grandchildren. He was preceded in death by his son Kelvin.

Richard Pearson of the Illinois State Rifle Association may have said it best when he wrote, “I have always considered Otis as one of those people who lived everyday bravely and was not a hero because of one event but was a hero every day of his life.” Godspeed Mr. McDonald and may your soul rest in peace.

Rob- James Kaleda raised over $7500 dollars, but less than half the hoped for amount to fund his legal defense against New Jersey State Police.  Some of you asked to meet me at the NRA convention.  I’m going to ask you if you donated, so you might want to reconsider.  In short, I’m disappointed.

Paul -Chicago’s murder rate for the first three months of 2014 was the lowest since 1958. Six fewer people were murdered than in the same time frame in 2013 – a 9 percent drop – and 55 fewer murders than 2012, according to Chicago Police. There were 90 fewer shootings and 119 fewer shooting victims, over a 25 percent reduction.  Is it coincidence that concealed carry has come to Chicago?


Rob -Last week California Democrat Senator Leland Yee was charged.  This week Senator Yee and 26 others were indicted by a federal grand jury.  They will be arraigned on Tuesday of next week.  Yee is charged with six counts of scheming to defraud citizens by allegedly soliciting and taking campaign contributions in exchange for political favors.  Yee continues to receive his full salary from the California Senate.


John-TEXAS- The Texas Senate scheduled a surprise hearing on open carry.  This is short notice, as in THIS MONDAY MORNING, April 7th at 8:30 AM.  This is your chance to be heard, so be there is you live in the Austin Area.  More information is available at Texas Firearms Freedom.  http://www.texasfirearmsfreedom.com/

Paul-Also in Texas and short notice, gun advocacy group Open Carry Texas will hold a rally at a San Antonio Police substation Sunday at 1pm following what the organization says was an illegal arrest last weekend of one of its members.

Henry Vichique, 19 [sic], was taken into custody for violating the city ordinance that says, in part, that it is illegal “to carry a loaded rifle or shotgun on any public street.” Open Carry Texas believes the ordinance violates state law. The officer said he was going to follow him home to make sure he got there safely and that Vichique was not under arrest. But when Vichique acknowledged his weapon was loaded, a sergeant told the officers over the radio that a crime was committed, according to a police report. Officers then told Vichique they were going to grab his gun, which he said they couldn’t do. Vichique “made it clear he was not going to hand it over” and was subsequently stunned with a Taser, the police report states. He had five live rounds in the rifle, police noted.


Rob- Rachel, you get busy and Texas goes all to hell.  Why aren’t you here to read this?

Rob- Ares (AIR -ECE) Armor was raided by ATF agents last month after Ares secured a judge’s restraining order against the feds.  Ares scheduled a protest at the local ATF office in Carlsbad, California next Saturday, April 12th from 2 to 5 pm.  You can go to the Ares Armor website, their facebook page, or our show notes for a link.  I’ll be there.  If you listen to the podcast, please say Hi.

John- Here are two gun quotes written over 500 years old from Niccolo Machiavelli.

“There never was a new prince who has disarmed his subjects.  Rather, when he has found them disarmed, the prince has always armed them, because, by arming them, those arms become (his).

“When you disarm the people, you commence to offend them and show that you distrust them either through cowardice or lack of confidence, and both of these opinions generate hatred.”

Hang on everybody, we’ll be right back after this advertisement for Concealment Solutions
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Seg 3 Interview with Chaz, the un-named chucker.
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Segment 4 DGUs

John – The first DGU from a Chicago resident with an Illinois concealed carry permit happened early this morning. Two men dressed in hoodies accosted a man as he was walking from his garage to the door of his home around 2:40am. One of them pulled a firearm and the homeowner pulled his own firearm and fired several shots. It doesn’t appear that either of the criminals were injured but more importantly neither was the homeowner. After the shooting, police responded and determined that the man was shooting in self-defense. The man had a valid firearm owner’s identification card, a valid concealed carry permit and police were able to determine that he had completed a required concealed carry class and was properly trained, CPD News Affair Officer Michael Sullivan said.

The man is not facing charges as police search for the two males, described as a tall male and a short male. Those two face charges.

Paul-A resident who lives just south of Slone lake area of Denver Colorado shot and killed a man wednesday.  The homeowner said he shot when the man lunged at him after discovering the intruder taking things from his home.  The intruder was identified as Dwayne Kelly, age 52.  Kelly has a lengthy criminal history including burglary, domestic violence and resisting arrest, according to Colorado Bureau of Investigation records.  The homeowner was not charged by police. http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_25378523/man-fatally-shot-possible-self-defense-incident-identified

rob- A northeast Eugene, Oregon resident armed himself with a pistol and chased off two men who were trying to rob his home.  The incident was reported at 2:12 a.m. after the homeowner looked out his window and noticed a van parked with its headlights on. The man grabbed a .357 revolver.  Two men reportedly stepped inside the house, but turned and ran after the home’s resident pointed the gun at them.  The homeowner chased them a short distance.


(You’ve done what you can do.  If you wanted more evidence for police then you should buy a video security system, but don’t chase the bad guys once they leave your home.)

John -A wanted felon is back behind bars in Stephens County, Georgia.  The felon was fleeing from a Georgia Department of Natural Resources ranger when the felon rushed toward a woman working in her yard.  Evidently she felt threatened and drew her handgun and fired one round near him.  The felon fled in the opposite direction and was captured by County Sheriff Deputies. http://www.accessnorthga.com/detail.php?n=273269

(“Warning shots” are not a good idea.)

Paul -A wheelchair bound gun owner defended himself in Moore, Oklahoma.  An intruder jumped into his yard while Steven Ferguson was working in his sunroom.  Steve says he turned to see the intruder draw a firearm, and that is when Steve drew his and fired.  The shot shattered his back window, but the intruder jumped back over his fence and ran into an empty field.  “Shooting at someone is not fun.”


Rob- A woman answered her door with gun in hand, and she is glad she did.  This homeowner lives between Selma and Montgomery Alabama, an her house is several hundred feet from the paved road.  It was also after midnight when 18 year old Mike Smith knocked on the front door and claimed he needed help with his broken car.  Smith forced his way into the home as the homeowner approached the door, knocking the homeowner to the ground.  Smith was armed with a knife.  The homeowner fired her handgun several times.

Smith was found 30 feet from the front door, having been dragged most of that distance.  Police picked up Bryan Vance as an accomplice to burglary and Smith’s death.  Police explained that it appears the homeowner was protecting herself and her niece and would not face charges


John- We have the links to each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com if you want to share them with a friend.

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Tips and tricks segment with Kathy Jackson.
Segment 5 Show close
Listener e-mail discussion

Rob- Email #1
With regards to the discussion on video games and violence last episode: I want to see a study on video games and violence that factors in the effects of social isolation. I know from personal experience (I was bullied in middle school. Boo-hoo, pity me, right?) that social isolation makes kids withdraw from other people, and video games are a convenient escape. Most popular video games are violent, partly because we play video games to experience things we can’t do in reality (sports games aren’t popular because it’s pretty easy to go out and play football, for example). Socially isolated individuals who are heavily bullied are likely to lash out (Columbine was explicitly a response to social isolation and bullying, and most other mass murderers were bullied loners). Therefore, you see a correlation between violent video games and violent behavior. As we all know, correlation does not equal causation though – Both violence and playing of video games could be caused by social isolation and bullying.

Also, you referenced religion being an antidote to violence. This is quite the hornet’s nest, so I’ll just poke it gently by saying that 9/11, the crusades, thousands of murders of gays in america and across the world, and other atrocities are religiously motivated, too. Religion is a powerful tool that can be used to convince someone, partly because faith, by definition, can often bypass logic and evidence. This tool can be used for good or evil, much like guns. Religion isn’t inherently bad, but can be easily twisted towards evil by cultists and extremists.

Thanks for putting out the podcast, and keep asking the hard questions!

Email #2 (Paul wants this one)
Why do you have an email? I’ve emailed you on several different occasions about different things and you never email back

John – Email #3
Paul & Crew,
Just dropping you a note to say keep up the good work. I enjoy the show and info you all give to us on a bi-weekly basis. Although a few of the staff has left in recent months the group you have put together is equally informative and entertaining. Once again, keep up the good work & I’ll give Susan all the credit for seeing to it that the show goes off without a hitch.
Troy & Gwen Starkey

Paul- Email #4 Email string about Trek podcast. I had emailed Ken thanking him for the recommendation.

YAY! So happy I did some good. I’m not even that big a Trek Fan, but love what these guys are doing.
Ken S.
PS Just joined NRA last week. Just bought my first gun, ever, on Thursday. (Ruger LCP)

Listener voice mail from Mark in Ohio-
Insert recording-
Rob’s paraphrase ‘Lots of Mass murderers play video games. They also drink milk. That said, I don’t let my girls play violent video games. My family shoots and my youngsters know firearms are both real and dangerous.”

Rob- Mark, It is nice to hear you and thank you for sending your voicemail. I think you’re doing a good job raising your children. I think you’re doing a bad job with statistics. We compare those who play video games with those who don’t. The more violent imagery children see, the more violent behavior we observe in them.

Think of video games as a cumulative mental poison.
Mark, I can send you some physical poison in a medicine bottle. It tastes sweet so your kids will like it. They might like it a lot and ask for it. I know this poison won’t kill everyone with every dose. Odds are it won’t hurt them at all this time, but the odds are absolutely certain it will kill some. The fact that this poison did not make YOU sick THIS TIME does not mean it won’t sicken many people.

Do you really want to give poison to your children and find out? You, Mark, already answered that question for you and your family. I’ll repeat what I said before; I like your answer.

Paul: The Polite Society download app is out on Amazon for Android and the I-phone app is in I-tunes.  They are located by our old name, Politics and guns.  Hot links are in our show notes.


John: We’re experimenting with the show all the time.  Please send us an e-mail to tell us what you like or dislike.  You can contact the show by e-mail.  Onair@politics and guns.com or  Call 605-215-1438 to hear your voice on the air!

Paul: That’s 605- 215- 1438

Rob: Roadgunner’s Mag 40 class in Conway, Arkansas at Shoot House USA is scheduled for May 15th thru 18th 2014 you can register here.

John: Also please check out Kathy Jackson’s Cornered Cat training classes. Her next class is in Richmond Virginia on April 12 and 13.

Paul: Rob, do you have any new posts you want to mention from your SlowFacts blog?

Rob: I do. My message is that you gun owners rock!  The gun culture is growing despite the smears from the main stream media and millions of dollars from anti-gun politicians.  The article is called Gun Culture Turns the Tide.  It is on Clash Daily, Ammoland and my blog.

Paul: Also please check out the shooters club by Bob Mayne and Ben Branam.  For $75.00 a year, $6.25 a month, you get 24/7 access to some fantastic training and audio podcasts that you can’t get anywhere else.  Bob is giving away his M&P Shield to one lucky member.

Robl: Listen to other podcasts on thethe Crusader Podcast Network.

John: Join the National Rifle Association, Second Amendment Foundation, Gun Owners of America and Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership.  Joining two makes you a hero.  Supporting all four makes you a super hero.  Not belonging to any of them means we won’t loan you any ammunition.

Paul: Join your local civil rights group like the New Jersey Second Amendment Society, Arizona Citizens Defense League, Gun Owners of California, Connecticut Citizens Defense League, Florida Carry,,  Georgia Carry, Georgia Gun Owners, Grass Roots North Carolina, Illinois Carry, Michigan Gun Owners , Michigan Open Carry,

John: and Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners, Minnesota Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance, Citizens for a Safer New Jersey,  Texas Firearms Freedom, Texas State Rifle Association. Tennessee Firearms Association, West Virginia Citizens Defense League and Wyoming Gun Owners.

Rob: For our Canadian listeners, and their supporters, join the Canadian Shooting Sports Association and the Canadian National Firearms Association

Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast.  Until the mid-week show…
Rob: stay safe,
John: be aware, and we’ll see you down the road.

Episode 166 – News and the return of the Ask the GunDoc Segment

Toby’s contest –  The best suck-up emails to onair@ad7.8f3.myftpupload.com win!
Break 1 ABN Army Surplus
Ask the Gundoc Segment – Should you keep rounds in your unused magazines?
Push for more gun control after Navy Yard murderers?
Did the NRA wake up yet?
New NRA commentator Billy Johnson from Amidst the Noise commented on the washington navy yard murders.  More laws in the anti-gun states.
Outcome of Nigerian mall shooting?  62 killed.  Royal Marine with a handgun escorted 100s to safety.

Break 2 Concealment Solutions and Nighthawk
Signing of UN ATT by John Kerry…Can a treaty supersede the constitution?
The list of speakers and celebrities at the Houston GRPC-
Jeff Knox of Knox report, Larry Pratt of GOA, Jim Ivine of Buckeye firearms, Andrew Rothman of gun owners civil rights of Minnesota, Gene Hoffman of Calguns, Massad Ayoob of the Second Amendment Foundation, Marty Hayes  President of Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network, Tom Gresham of GunTalk, Emily Miller from Washington Times, Professor David Kopel, Dr. John Lott, Brian Aitken, Journalist Dave Workman, Mark Walters of AAR, Alan Korwin, Charles Heller, podcaster Mark Vandenberg, Frank Fiamingo of NJ@AS, Richard Feldman of independent firearms owners of america?

Break 3  NJ2AS
Christian Science Monitor- Government shutdown and 12 ways it could affect you.  They had to dig, so they are really saying that life WILL go on.

25 percent of registered voters said we should not increase the federal debt and balance the budget by cutting spending.

Virginia students suspended for playing with airsoft guns in their front yard.
14 bad gun bills on California Governor Brown’s desk.  His phone and office staff have been very busy taking calls.  Contact the Governor and give the left coast some love.
Governor Jerry Brown
c/o State Capitol, Suite 1173, Sacramento, CA 95814
Phone: 916) 445- 2841 Fax: 916) 558- 3160
You can also read these bills and write and fax Governor Brown here.https://www.firearmspolicy.org/the-issues/california/2013-2014/askbrown/

Break 4 Slipstream