Episode 460 – No interviews but lots of news and DGUs


Paul: Welcome to the polite society podcast powered by the Firearms Policy Coalition recorded on Friday, August 24th, 2018, I’m Paul Lathrop

Rob: I’m Rob Morse and on tonight’s show we will report on the growing number of concealed carry permit holders across the USA.

John: I’m John Richardson, and we’ll talk about Louisiana fighting back against anti-2a banks.

Tracy: I’m Tracy Thronburg and we’ll talk about how a lady from Portland, Oregon, doesn’t find meth attractive.

Rachel: I’m Rachel Malone and we’ll talk about a legal victory for the Second Amendment Foundation.

Gary: I’m Gary Daugherty and in one of our DGUs an armed citizen helps police… so climb aboard

Rachel: strap in

John : and hang on!

Paul:  episode 460 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.

Show intro music.

Personal news from each participant (when you are done with your segment please ask the next person what has been up with them)

Rob- I was on Bill Frady’s Lock and Load Radio program. I recorded another Episode of Self-Defense Gun Stories with Ben Branam. Dialed up my exercise program, but not as good as Tracy’s. Carried every day and did some dry practice.

John – In our last podcast, I said I had been prepping an area for a food plot for deer and cutting brush on some land my wife inherited. I’ll be planting seed this weekend and hopefully the deer will like it. My trail cam had some interesting  videos. I caught a couple of does and a fawn in one video and another has a raccoon in it. I still haven’t seen any bucks. Still, I know the land has critters on it and that makes me hopeful.

Rob- what do you plant to attract deer?


Tracy – I celebrated my 50th birthday last Wednesday. Part of the celebrations included a birthday supper at a local mom-and-pop Italian restaurant, where my good friend and Polite Society Podcast co-host, Rachel Malone, joined my husband and I along with two other friends. My parents gave me a new 1911. It’s an STI Tactical 5.0 in 9mm with a bull barrel. I’ve stayed busy teaching private lessons and trying to stay cool as Texas continues with daily 100+ degree temperatures.

Rachel – I’m working to schedule legislative trainings around Texas to build the army of activists. If you’re in Texas, please check out my facebook events to see if one is near you! I’ll be hitting every corner – north, south, east, and west. I also did a fun range workout the other day. I sprinted 80 yards, did 5 burpees, sprinted 80 yards, and shot at 200 yards — 2 rounds each standing, seated, prone, seated standing. After 6 rounds of that, carrying my run n gun pack and all my mags….let’s just say I’m pretty sore today.

 Paul – I could

Grant – I’m delighted to be here – thanks all. I recently certified as a USCCA instructor, so I’ve been preparing the material I need to teach these classes – very different from the NRA ones. We also have a family of deer that hang out in the yard, and they have been helpfully pruning the sweet potato vines, so… all good there!


Promo about upcoming training classes here.

TRACY – KR Training has some terrific training opportunities coming up. Karl Rehn and Richard Worthey will be teaching a School Safety Active Shooter Class September 29-30 in Orange, Texas. Tom Givens will be back at KR Training October 6th and 7th for his combative pistol/dynamic pistol marksmanship 2 class, and Karl will be teaching Force-on-Force Instructor and Force-on-Force Scenarios October 12th, 13th, and 14th at his A-Zone Range. There will be low-light level 1 and 2 classes October 13th and 14th. Please visit www.krtraining.com for more information and to register for these great classes. Also, be sure to sign up for the monthly newsletter to get the inside scoop on the latest classes and national trainers who are coming in to teach at Karl’s range.

GRANT will be running a USCCA Instructor workshop, hosting USCCA Training Counselor Klint Macro, on December 8th and 9th. Details are on the ScotShot website. The class is limited to ten Instructor candidates, so get your skates on! ScotShot is also running an NRA Pistol Instructor class thru the fall. Contact grant at scotshot dot com for details.

John patches? Yes

We still have PSP patches. I will bringing them with me to GRPC so if you are attending I will have them for sale there. Price is $10 for 1 or $18 for two. If not at GRPC, you can send money by PayPal at john@politicsandguns.com.

Ask listeners to listen to other shows on the network, name at least 2 shows.


2- News


Listeners – remember to send your comments on the news to “onair@politicsandguns.com”


Listeners, you’ve heard us commenting on how the Big Banks and others have been using their financial muscle to work against legal firearms-related businesses. Sometimes it’s drying up their credit card transactions and sometimes it’s denying credit, and sometimes it’s just… thanks, we don’t want your business anymore. This is just another way that the left is working to shut down your access to your second amendment rights.

Well now, the State of Louisiana has struck back.

Citigroup and Bank of America withhold financing from firearms retailers and manufacturers who sold guns legally to adults under 21. In doing this, they were using their commercial power to make and extend a social engineering policy, designed to restrict rights under the second amendment.

Bank of America is trying to end relationships with customers who they say “make military weapons for civilians”, while Citigroup demand that their customers stop selling “high capacity” magazines, or rifles and shotguns to 18-20 year olds.

The banks had stipulated that to get financing, businesses had to follow their gun-related regulations.

When Louisiana went looking for underwriters for a six-hundred-million-dollar infrastructure project, these two banks applied. However, Attorney General Jeff Landry chose to deny their application because he determined that these banks were “ trying to become the social police.”

Landry’s Office put out a statement saying that Louisiana was not going to do business with corporations that infringe or restrict its citizens’ right to keep and bear arms. The office noted that the banks were not restricting financing to car manufacturers or Pharma companies, whose products kill three times more and five times more people a year than do firearms.

He concluded with “this is an infiltration of the left into boardrooms… in Louisiana, we’re just not going to stand for that.”

Listeners, what do you think? Should banks be neutral or can they choose to target individual rights as they choose?



Rob- Several retailers were sued by the Oregon Bureau of Labor and Industries for refusing to sell guns to people under 21. https://www.opb.org/news/article/oregon-stores-refuse-sell-guns-age/

Paul – I want to encourage everyone to do the same to these banks that they are doing to firearms companies. Refuse to give them your business.

John – It is not just banks that are trying to suppress the Second Amendment.

Foursquare, Intuit, shopify. McMillan opened a credit agency.



Listeners, we again urge you to reach out and support the work of Dr John Lott and his Crime Prevention Research Center. It’s one of the few sources of factual information on the ownership and defensive use of firearms by everyday Americans.

In its latest report, Dr Lott’s CPRC shows that the number of Citizens holding concealed firearms permits stands at a whopping 17.25 Million – up almost three times over a 10-year period. Since the 2016 election, almost a million people have obtained their permits.

In fact, almost 7.5% of US adults have permits, and in fifteen states, it’s over 10%. Alabama is highest with 22%, and Indiana is next, with 17%. Four states – Florida, Georgia, Pennsylvania and Texas have over a million permit holders. Fourteen states have constitutional carry.

Permit holding amongst women and minorities grew at rates that outstripped that amongst white males, which is great news. Women in particular are taking to concealed carry, at over twice the rate of men, while the number of Black and Asian permit holders grew over 20% faster.

Most interestingly, CCW holders are very law abiding; in Florida and Texas, permit holders are convicted of felonies and misdemeanors at one sixth the rate of regular police officers.

Listeners, what are your experiences? Did you recently get your permit? Email us to tell your story!

Paul – A





Last week, the intrepid Alan Gottlieb and the 2nd Amendment Foundation dealt the anti-gunners a black eye on your behalf, working alongside the NRA’s Institute for Legislative Action.

The anti-gunners were trying to put a peoples’ initiative on the ballot for the upcoming November election. It contained multiple, terrible changes to existing firearm law in Washington State. However, starkly ignoring the law, those who put forward the petition did not clearly show to those who signed the petition the proposed changes to existing law.

Gottlieb sued, and won, on the basis that Washington State election law was being trampled. They paid people nine dollars to sign the petition – a true sign of conscience we’re sure you’ll agree – however, local billionaires could not buy the court.

The petitioners, he said, “acted totally irresponsible in circulating this initiative to the voters and it not only cost them millions of wasted dollars but their credibility as well.”

Y’all, they ARE coming for your guns, and they have very deep pockets. Pay attention to what is happening in your local politics.

John – I’m really glad to see the NRA and SAF actually work hand in hand in Washington State. They have two other lawsuits together against the cities of Seattle and Edmonds for violating state preemption.

Paul – I am thinking that there was a lawsuit with GOA as well.





Listeners. You own and use and train with firearms for sport, self-defense and a variety of reasons. Someone, somewhere, wants to tax that. Perhaps to make it more difficult for you to exercise your 2nd Amendment rights, or perhaps, pragmatically, just to shake down people having fun, in order to fund the left’s agenda.

Well, now, Cook County has scored a victory in its quest to make money from legal gun owners.

They had established a tax of  $25 per gun and 5¢ per round. A suit brought by various 2nd Amendment supporters was just dismissed by the Cook County Circuit Court.  The court commented that “.. the tax is a valid exercise of Cook County’s home rule power to tax”

The Court’s decision was aggressive, stating that  there was no evidence that the tax would prevent ownership or possession of firearms, and the the tax did not violate the Second Amendment.

Firearms retailers and others said the the outcome was not unexpected, and that they would appeal.



Rob- Can we tax politicians by the word, or by the lie?

it is only a tax..said a SCOTUS judge.

Paul – SAF filing a suit in 5-4-3


Gun Quotes

“’Gun control’ is a job-safety program for criminals.”

– John Lott

Hang on everybody, we’ll be back with our DGU’s.


3- Interview 1

4- Interview 2

5- DGUs  (at beginning) These discussions are NOT legal advice. Some of us are trainers, but this is not formal training and YOU NEED formal training. The Defensive Gun Use segment is intended as information, NOT as training. As always the opinions of the hosts are only their own opinions and not those of any sponsors or other affiliations.

John – Rutherfordton, North Carolina
Chandra Nierman had recently moved to North Carolina from Indiana.  Her boyfriend was a convicted felon, with two active domestic violence protection orders against him in Ohio and Indiana, and who had multiple firearms around the house and frequently carried on his person.

On August 4, he had assaulted Nierman and fired multiple rounds inside the house to threaten and terrorize her.

On August 8, he was up to his old ways.  As he assaulted Nierman “causing bruises and contusions,” her kids took matters into their own hands.  The woman’s 12-year-old son grabbed a handgun. He handed the gun to his 15-year-old sister. She aimed and fired two shots that hit the abuser in the chest.

The man  quickly assumed room temperature.
Their 16-year-old sister was injured by bullet fragments but was treated and released from the hospital.

The DA’s office concluded, based on the facts and the evidence, that the shooting was justified and no charges will be filed.

Rob- The attacker said he would kill them all. If your ch
Paul – It’s unfortunate that the children had to do this. Thankfully the 12 year old knew where a gun was and what to do. Also

John – NC does have a law about keeping firearms out of the reach of minors. You are reminded about this everytime you purchase a firearm in the state as most dealers have you sign a disclaimer.


Gary – Indianapolis, Indiana
A dramatic armed robbery at Décor Furniture on the east side of Indianapolis was caught on camera last weekend.  It ended with the store owner turning the tables on the robber.
The store owner Doyle Stinson was in his store when the suspect pulled a gun and demanded money from him.  “I know you’ve got more money than that because this is a business.” He forced Stinson into the back room of the store.

Stinson somehow could tell the suspect’s gun was not loaded.  As he entered the back room, he hit the silent alarm and reached for his own weapon.

“I knew when he pulled the hammer back on the automatic weapon there wasn’t a bullet in the chamber,” Stinson said, “I know the sound.”

The video show him taking aim as the suspect quickly flees the store.  Stinson said he didn’t pull the trigger because he saw a boy in front of this store and was concerned about a stray shot hitting him.  (Rule 4)

The store owner instead called 9-1-1 and chased after the criminal.

A fellow store owner got in Stinson’s car and the two followed the suspect until it “became too dangerous.”

As for the take from the robbery, it netted him a whole $10.

Paul –

TRACY – Portland, Oregon
As a woman got on the elevator at her apartment, a 43-year-old crystal meth addict got on the elevator with her.  He confided that he had “just shot up.”
The man exited on the same floor as the woman and when she opened her door, he ran up and pushed her inside the apartment.
He looked wildly around, grabbed a pill bottle and $60 in cash.  He then exposed himself to her.

She was in “sheer panic” and the gun in her purse was not the first thing that came to her mind.  It was, however, how she was getting out of the situation.

When the man saw the gun, he dropped the bottle and ran out of the apartment with the cash.

Another woman was expecting a visitor and buzzed the person in.  The visitor did get photos of the suspect leaving the complex and the two shared the pictures with local law enforcement who recognized the junkie.
“I’ve had a real hard time since then, struggling with because it brings back horrible memories for me,” Kim said.

Unfortunately, she says this isn’t her first time dealing with sexual assault.

“There must be someplace inside me that’s just not going to let that happen again,” she said.

Now, she hopes everyone remembers to never let strangers inside.

“We need to look out for our neighbors, there’s a reason we live in a building that has security,” she said.


Rob- Don’t expect your neighbors to save you. POGO

Paul – you walk up to a building and hit every button on the door and someone will buzz you in.

And we’ll be back right after this with MORE DGUs!


Paul Dallas / Highland Park, Texas
Shortly before 8 PM, a man and a woman broke into the vehicle of a “commissioned” security guard near Turtle Creek.  When they drove their truck toward the security guard , he fired shots at them, claiming he had shot them.

The pair fled into Highland Park where the man dropped off the woman at a strip center.  He told witnesses that the woman needed help for an injury to her arm.

He then sped off and crashed into another vehicle a few blocks away.

Officers from Dallas, Highland Park, University Park and Southern Methodist University responded and set up a perimeter.  The started searching for the man to ran from the crash.

An off-duty officer working nearby found the suspect.

The two had been hospitalized and the male was taken to Dallas County jail.  The driver of the vehicle struck by the truck was hospitalized with non-life-threatening injuries.
The two face a charge of aggravated robbery in connection to the incident.  He was also changed with another robbery of a Taco Bell and a probation violation.

The man who fired the shots has had two aggravated assault reports filed against him and the case has been referred to a grand jury.


Grant – Cherokee County, Georgia
The hunt for the 25-year-old suspect began about 3 AM on Monday morning about a week ago.  He was wanted on a number of charges, burglary, obstruction, fleeing and attempting to elude, reckless conduct and reckless driving.  He is also accused of stealing trucks and ATV’s and threatening people with a sawed-off shotgun.

Deputies found a vehicle running and empty.  The vehicle had been reported stolen from Dawson County on Sunday night.

Deputies shot down the road due to receiving similar reports occuring in Cherokee and nearby counties.

At about 12:30 PM, they spotted the suspect on a dirt bike and gave chase.  After a short chase, he crashed the bike and fled into the woods. He wasn’t in the clear for long.

A neighbor told TV news that the suspect was hiding on her property.  She grabbed her gun and fired four of those pesky warning shots.
“By me firing shots in the air, it alerted my neighbor, so he knew he was coming his way,” the woman told the news station.

The deputies searched the woods and heard the shots.  They found the man holding the suspect at gunpoint.

Over a two week period, the suspect was tied to five crimes.

In one incident, he stole a truck and trailer and when confronted, got out of the truck and pointed a sawed-off shotgun at them.


Rob- Princess Anne County, Maryland

Two men wearing ski masks walked into a pharmacy recently.  One of the men was carrying what appeared to be a modern sporting rifle.

Wasim Amir, the owner and pharmacist was in his office when the suspects entered the store.  The man with the rifle ordered everyone to the ground.

Amir realized a robbery was in progress and removed the revolver from the desk drawer and started to walk out into the shop.   He was met by the robber who pointed the rifle at him.

When the robber saw the revolver, he yelled at his accomplice to run, saying “He has a gun.”

Amir fired once in their direction but missed leaving a hole in the front window of the pharmacy.

It was determined that the two men were demanding prescription medications and got none.  The window was replaced before lunch.


Paul – Training PLEASE!

John – The anti’s always belittle using a handgun when confronted with a rifle. It looks like it worked here.

Gary –

Rob- Don’t walk faster than you can see. Everyone should have been armed.

John – I think this was actually in Maryland. I thought they banned MSRs.

Paul –


We post each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com  Please take a minute and share them with a friend.


6- E-mail, blog notes, and show close

Listener e-mail discussion


You are truly evil! – Hey – Alton BROWN!

Paul: Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?

Rob- In the last month I’ve posted 7 articles and 8 interviews about FASTER saves lives. You can find them at my blog, slow facts dot wordpress dot com.  John, tell us what’s new at your blog no lawyers only guns and money.

This month the Canadians retired an old war horse. The Canadian Army had used the Lee Enfield rifle in one form or another since the Boer War. It was still being used by their volunteer Arctic-based Canadian Rangers as it had few moving parts, functioned well in sub-freezing weather, and was powerful enough for polar bears. It will be replaced by a modified bolt action Tikka T3 in .308 made by Colt Canada.  Unfortunately, these Enfields won’t be hitting our surplus markets after retirement. They are slated for cadet training, museums, and as gifts to Canadian Rangers for a job well done. The Rangers are a reserve force that has Inuit, First Nations (what we call native americans), and “non-aboriginals” in it.

That and more is at only guns and money dot blogspot dot com.

Facebook listeners group

Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast.   So for Amy, Tracy, Belle, Dana, Douglas, Gary, John, Rachel, Susan, Grant and Rob,

(Paul, stop talking now)

Rob: Until the next time…

Gary: stay safe,

Tracy: be aware,

John: and we’ll see you down the road.

Episode 459 – Kat Ainsworth


Paul: Welcome to the polite society podcast powered by the Firearms Policy Coalition recorded on Thursday, August  15th, 2018, I’m Paul Lathrop

John: I’m John Richardson and on tonight’s show we will talk with Kat Ainsworth about firearms writing and training.

Belle: I’m Belle McCormack, and we’ll also talk about positive developments in Texas. So Climb aboard

Paul : Strap in

John : and hang on!

Paul:  episode 459 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.

Show intro music.

Personal news from each participant (when you are done with your segment please ask the next person what has been up with them)

John – Last week was spent entertaining family who were in town from St. Louis. This week I’ve been trying out a new “arm”. A chainsaw would be covered by the Second Amendment, wouldn’t it? I know the Stihl-Husqvarna rivalry is akin to Glock v Smith & Wesson M&P so I hesitate to go there. I also prepped an area today for use as a food plot for deer. I’ll plant it in a couple of weeks.

Belle – Finished up the WA ST IDPA Championship match, event went great, my shooting, not so much. Hosting Gunsite this weekend. And then…taking a weekend off to go camping with the kids before school starts.


Promo about upcoming training classes here.

Ask listeners to listen to other shows on the network, name at least 2 shows.


2- News


Listeners – remember to send your comments on the news to “onair@politicsandguns.com”


Listeners, we have been tracking the spread of the so-called “Red Flag” laws in various states, and our own Rachael Malone has been leading the charge against them in her new role with Gun Owners of America, down in Texas.

Now, lawmakers on  the Texas Senate Select Committee on “Violence in schools and School Security” has decided against more laws in favor of supporting increased school security.

The committee recommended securing funding for things such as cameras and metal detectors, as well as exploring a school marshal program and controlled entry points.

Other changes would include increased mental health training for school staff, and mental health resources for students.

The Committee specifically did not recommend the introduction of a Texas “Red Flag” law, saying instead that the current laws on domestic abuse be reviewed to clarify they impact on firearm possession.

The District that includes the Santa Fe high school where an attack took place recently also rejected Red-Flag and instead approved funding of one-point-five million dollars for security upgrades.

Listeners, this all makes way more sense than empowering unaccountable gun grabs, unless your aim is to grab guns unaccountably.




John –



Listeners, it was British Prime Minister Winston Churchill who sarcastically said “Never let a good crisis go to waste”, and of course, if there *isn’t* a serious crisis, then simply manufacture one.

We have all heard tragic stories where a child finds a firearm that has been poorly stored by a negligent adult and shoots themselves or another. This is horrible and now, the gun-grabbers have coined the term “Family Fire” to describe these events, and take advantage of them for their own ends.

“Family Fire” – the term makes it sound as if family members are hunting one another. It is yet another gross perversion of tragedy by those who would take away our rights.

The Brady Campaign website defines “Family Fire” as: “A shooting involving an improperly stored or misused gun found in the home, resulting in death or injury. Incidents include unintentional shootings, suicides and other gun-related tragedies.”

They ask: “Why is Family Fire” an issue?” and answer, “4.6 million children live in homes with loaded and unsecured guns. Everyday, family fire unintentionally injures or kills eight children and teens. Over 75% of school shootings start with kids having access to unsecured and/or unsupervised guns at home.”

You’ll notice that the term includes suicides. When else have we heard the tragedy of suicide used to inflate criminal use of firearms?

You’ll notice that there’s no mention of how many times children are killed or injured (and yes, one *is* too many), or how that number compares with those who drown in backyard swimming pools.

You’ll notice that educating children about firearms doesn’t feature in their program.

Listeners, don’t be fooled. This campaign with its catchy terminology is not about gun safety, despite what it says. It’s about creating fear and distrust amongst those who don’t own guns.

John – Years ago a local Highway Patrolman’s daughter used his firearm to kill herself.

Paul – The boston bombers were listed as “gun violence victims” by the brady campaign





Listeners, you know the last clause of the 2nd Amendment: “… the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.”

Well the lawyer for one illegal immigrant hopes that the amendment’s use of the word “people” and not “citizens”, will get him off gun charges, at the Supreme Court. Under currently accepted law, one must be a US Citizen or a Permanent Resident Alien (green card holder) to legally possess a firearm.

In 2016, illegal immigrant Javier Perez and a Mexican national  shot into the air to scare off a rival gang, using a gun that he freely admits borrowing from a friend. Brooklyn is prosecuting him under a number of firearms statutes.

Perez’s lawyer claims that, since there was no concept of “illegal alien” when the Bill of Rights was written, there was no suggestion that if you were from a foreign country, then you couldn’t bear arms. He is bolstering his argument with a section from the Heller decision, where mentally unstable people and felons were specifically mentioned as being excluded from 2nd amendment rights. The “logic” is that since illegal aliens were *not* specified, then they must have 2nd Amendment rights.

The prosecution argues that Illegal aliens have a “special interest” in evading the law. Further, they note that three circuit courts have rejected similar arguments in previous cases as have two federal appeals courts.

A California law professor noted: “The more one believes the Second Amendment is an individual right of self-defense, the harder it gets to say noncitizens are categorically not protected,” he said. “Any statute that makes firearms rights depend purely on immigrant status is constitutionally vulnerable,”

Arguments were held before Federal Judge Carol Bailey Amon on August 1st.

Listeners, what do *you* think?

John –






Listeners, we hear countless calls for “Common Sense Gun Safety”. Most of these come from organizations who think that the only “safe” gun is a confiscated one.

Well, the best established gun safety program for young children is quietly going from strength to strength.

The “Eddie Eagle” program, whose core message for children finding a firearm  is “Stop, don’t touch, run away, tell a grownup”, has reached a landmark of interest.

The program is produced by the NRA and in July, they said that they had received a quarter-of-a-million requests for the workbooks, videos and memento giveaways for the program.

The program is delivered to around a million pre-K to 4th graders every year, mostly by law enforcement officers, but also by NRA Instructors and other interested individuals.

Currently, 25 states have incorporated parts of the program into their safety training. Sadly however, some so-called “progressive” school districts prohibit the presenting of Eddie Eagle In their schools.

Listeners, what do you think – would you rather children were taught about guns, or kept in ignorance while adults hope they’ll not have an accident?

Paul – Good news!





Listeners, we reported recently on how several LvPD officers waited a floor below the room occupied by the Mandalay Bay murderer as he fired into the crowd below. Now LvPD has released its final report.

While the report details a very clear picture of the “who, what, when, where and how”, Sheriff Joe Lombardo told reporters and others that they had not been able to define the “why”.

Lombardo said that the mass murderer was an unremarkable man who showed signs of a troubled mind. He said there was no evidence for a second attacker and that no-one else was being charged, and that there was no evidence for links to international terrorist organizations.

The murderer’s brother said that he believed that the murders may have simply been an act of “boredom – he had done everything he wanted.” The murderer’s doctor said that be believed he was suffering from bipolar disorder, but had refused treatment.

The company who owns the hotel wants the murders to be classified as a act of terrorism, in order to absolve them of any liability to the families of those killed or injured.

So Listeners, is this what we are left with; fifty-eight people dead, hundreds more injured, at the hand of a man who was an untreated bipolar disorder victim, who was bored?






Listeners, the Bloomberg Redshirts and other gun banners always like to portray gun owners as “old white men” in dungarees, whose low IQ is only outdone by their small number of teeth. They live and breathe in the hope that gun ownership will simply die out.

However, the uncomfortable truth is that gun ownership is  lively, expanding and vibrant, with women of all ages, ethnicities and locations leading the “new wave” of what has been termed “Gun Culture two-point-oh.”

This was highlighted recently when two highly competitive programs for high schoolers drew 2,700 competitors.

The Scholastic Clay Target Program and Scholastic Action Shooting Program National Championships were conducted July 14-21 at the Cardinal Shooting Center in Marengo, Ohio. Youth from 26 states participated in the eight-day event with 2,692 competitors putting over one million rounds down range.

Trap and Skeet competitions were won by teams from Georgia, Iowa, Texas and Wisconsin. Action Shooting events were conducted in rimfire pistol, centerfire pistol, rifle optics, rifle iron sights, 1911 and pistol caliber carbine, and were won by competitors from multiple states, too, including Iowa, Pennsylvania and Tennessee.

Listeners, its easy to be overwhelmed by the flood of negative propaganda from those who would take away our rights. Don’t be discouraged. Bring the next generation of shooters forward and teach them well. Why not introduce the program to your high school? Contact the Scholastic Shooting Sports Foundation – their website is in the show notes.




Hang on everybody, we’ll be back with our guest Kat Ainsworth.


3- Interview 1

4- Interview 2

5- DGUs  (at beginning) These discussions are NOT legal advice. Some of us are trainers, but this is not formal training and YOU NEED formal training. The Defensive Gun Use segment is intended as information, NOT as training. As always the opinions of the hosts are only their own opinions and not those of any sponsors or other affiliations.

Paul -Memphis, Tennessee

Some criminals just can’t pick the right house to break into.

As Whitney Lyne tried to relax and wind down before crawling into bed recently, a couple of intruders had other plans for her night.

It started with the doorbell ringing.  Since she wasn’t expecting anyone, she was startled.  The ringing continued and the person added banging on the door as well.

Lyne stared out the window through the curtains trying to catch a glimpse of the person banging on the door and trying the knob.  It turned out this was a woman and she had a big man sitting in a silver car parked in Lyne’s driveway.

Lyne then heard a boom and all went silent.

The woman was trying to come in through the front door.  Lyne’s two dogs then lost it.

Putting aside her fears, Lyne grabbed the shotgun her husband had left her for protection.

The woman at the door had broken the glass and was ready to come through the door.  She was stopped dead in her tracks though. Lyne and her shotgun did the trick.

The woman nonchalantly put up her hands and walked back to her car.  The guy in the car put his hands in the air, backed up and just sped off.

Once again, no shots fired.  According to the gun control crowd, this doesn’t count.


John – Crystal City, Missouri

When an 80-year-old man and his wife returned home, they saw evidence that someone had been in and about their home.  Clue number one, the garden hose stretched across the driveway and was turned on. Then his wife heard the door open. She said something but no one answered.

The man didn’t follow our popular advice and didn’t wait for police.  He grabbed a handgun and started clearing the house himself.

When he looked in the basement, he found more clues.  He flipped the lights on under the steps and found what he was looking for.  The intruder was on his knees. He got the criminal up and marched him outside to wait for police.  The homeowner’s son was outside and on the phone with the police dispatcher.

The old man told the intruder to do what he was told and he would not be shot.  The criminal complied.

As we say, leave the job of clearing the house to the police.

Paul –

Belle – Republic, Washington

The State of Washington has not been exactly a 2A friendly state lately but Republic police are encouraging citizens to exercise their rights after a man defended himself.

A man was sitting in his car with the window open when the suspect jumped through the open window.  The suspect was thought to be behind a variety of other vehicle break-ins that have been reported around the town.

Much to the suspect’s surprise, the vehicle’s owner was still inside and was also a concealed carrier.  He pointed his pistol at the suspect and ordered him to get on the ground and don’t move. The criminal complied.

“Crimes happen and they happen in the blink of an eye usually when you least expect them,” the Republic Police post read. “If you go about your day unarmed and helpless, you are a victim waiting for a crime to happen. … Get a gun, take a class and refuse to be a victim.”


Paul –
John – Beaver Falls, Pennsylvania

A pizza delivery man was a practitioner of POGO.  He had just delivered a pizza at about 12:20 AM on a Friday evening and was returning to his vehicle when a man approached him.  The man tried to rob the driver. The driver was stabbed during the ensuing fight but was able to get his handgun from his vehicle and fired one shot at the attacker.

The man was hit and fled on foot.  He was found by police about a block away on a porch.  He was pronounced dead at the scene.

The driver was treated at a hospital and his name and condition were not released.


Belle – New Bedford, Massachusetts

Cab driver and food delivery drivers are like targets for the low lifes which infest our streets.  A cabbie picked up two men in New Bedford early Friday. The men put the driver in a choke hold and used a knife to try to rob him.

The driver managed to free himself from the two and escape from the cab.  He fired several shots back at the cab. He hit one of the two men who expired after reaching a hospital.  The other man fled the cab and was later arrested a little time after noon on the same day.

The DA’s office says that the cabbie was licensed to carry and has not been idenfified.


We post each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com  Please take a minute and share them with a friend.


6- E-mail, blog notes, and show close

Listener e-mail discussion

John, tell us what’s new at your blog no lawyers only guns and money.

The move by the gun prohibitionists to ban free speech just got a bit harder. In a move reminiscent of the controversy over the encryption program PGP, someone – not Cody Wilson or Def. Distributed – has published a book with the code for the Liberator pistol. This makes it that much harder for a court to ban the software files used in 3-D printing. Or, at least, it should. I bought a copy of the book and I’d suggest you follow our link to buy it as well. By the way, it is outselling HIllary Clinton’s It Takes A Village: Picture Book.

That and more is at only guns and money dot blogspot dot com.

Facebook listeners group

Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast.  I’d like to thank (Guests) for joining us today. So for Tracy, Belle, Dana, Douglas, Gary, John, Rachel, Susan, Grant and Rob Until the next time…

John: stay safe,

Belle: be aware,

John: and we’ll see you down the road.

Episode 458 – Brandon Combs

1- Introduction

Paul: Welcome to the polite society podcast powered by the Firearms Policy Coalition recorded on Tuesday, Aug 7, 2018, I’m Paul Lathrop

Rob: I’m Rob Morse and on tonight’s show we will talk with Brandon Combs about code is free speech.com.

Belle: I’m Belle McCormack, and we’ll also talk about Florida implementing Red Flag laws

Gary: I’m Gary Daugherty and in one of our DGUs we talk about a DGU anniversary form 1966… so climb aboard

Rob: strap in

Belle: and hang on!

Paul:  episode 458 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.

Show intro music.

Personal news from each participant (when you are done with your segment please ask the next person what has been up with them)

Rob- I talked with James Kaleda and Amanda Suffecool about armed school staff.


Belle – Discovering new levels of busy. Just finished MAG40, PSP/ASIC, and TacCon, in addition to a couple regular FAS classes. Then helping and participating in the Wa St IDPA Match this weekend. Then we will be hosting Gunsite for a 150 class the 17th-19th. Then, i may or may not have a day off.

Paul/Susan ran out to commiefornia

Promo about upcoming training classes here.

Ask listeners to listen to other shows on the network


2- News



Listeners, you’ve heard us talking a lot about the so-called “Red Flag” laws being introduced in

states all across the country. While states such as Texas have been able to use grass-roots

activism to thwart them somewhat, other States were bushwhacked as the Bloomberg Redshirts

hustled them through legislatures under the lie of “common sense”.

One such law was introduced in Florida after the Parkland atrocity and this week, we learned

that to date, almost four hundred and seventy people have had firearms confiscated under that


In Broward County, where the Sheriff’s department performed so nobly in defense of the high

school, eighty-eight such orders have been enacted.

In Pinellas County, a special 5-man unit has been stood up that *only* deals with these. Headed

by Sergeant Jason Schmittendorf, the unit has taken in around 200 firearms and thirty thousand

rounds of ammunition under sixty-four Red-Flag confiscations.

Pinellas County Sheriff Bob Gualtieri is “especially passionate” about the new law. He chairs the

task force that was formed after the Parkland atrocity to explore ways to prevent future school

shootings. Sheriff Gualtieri speaks well, he said, “It’s a constitutional right to bear arms and

when you are asking the court to deprive somebody of that right we need to make sure we are

making good decisions, right decisions, and (that) the circumstances warrant it,”

His five-man unit is uncovering good decisions at the rate of three per week in his county.

The law was enacted in the middle of March – barely 20 weeks ago – so that means that twentytwo

people are experiencing confiscations every week. Listeners, that is three a day, every day.

Attorney Kendra Parris is critical of the new law. She said that such laws may make people

“feel” safer, but that they violate the constitution.

Orders are even being filed against people who do not have any history of violence or mental

illness, or do not even own a firearm, with the intent to prevent them from obtaining one for at

least six months. In some cases, these may be justified only on the basis of some comment on

social media.

Listeners, setting up special units smacks of a “clean up” operation, and while these laws may

be well-intended, the scope for abuse is huge. In New Jersey for example, people are allowed

to bring the charge, and call witnesses to support it, without the person accused ever being

informed. Make no mistake, they *are* coming for your guns.






Rob- 90 percent overtuned

Belle – So what crime did these people commit? Maybe I’m naive, but I’m having a hard time understanding. What happens after its overturned




You’ll remember how we talked about the settlement between the DOJ and Defense

Distributed that opened the door for Cody Wilson to restart presenting the files for 3-D printing of

firearms components, and running a milling machine, for download over the internet.

As expected, Attorneys General from a bunch of states, as well as multiple members of

Congress, objected loud and long. In only two examples of many, the Attorney General of New

Jersey threatened prosecution. Senator Richard Blumenthal warned of a “New Wave” of gun

violence. Celebrities (well known for their deep analytical thought processes) have been

hammering the Twitterverse with calls for bans, and like-minded Twits have been agreeing.

However, things have gotten serious. Wilson himself sought to defuse the situation by agreeing

not to allow PA-based servers to handle the files. While an initial attempt to get a restraining

order was denied, now a Federal Judge has granted one.

US District Judge Robert Lasnik issued the order on July 31st, and this provides time for

Congressional Democrats to pressure the White House and the DOJ to have the decision


It is unlikely that they will succeed, since the settlement was reached under First Amendment

rather than Second Amendment, grounds. Computer software is already protected as freespeech.

The amount of political misinformation has been staggering. Lawmakers have stated that whole

ARs (including springs, and barrels) can be printed, smuggled onto aircraft, etc etc. They seem

to have forgotten that they already passed a law making TSA-undetectable guns illegal.

Nonetheless, three bills to stop 3-D printing of firearms were introduced in Congress.

Meanwhile, the disputed code is proliferating across the internet, with supporters saying that

they, “…intend to encourage people to consider new and different aspects of our nation’s

marketplace of ideas — even if some government officials disagree with our views or dislike our

content — because information is code, code is free speech, and free speech is freedom.”

Cody Wilson himself said, “I believe I am championing the Second Amendment”.

Listeners, if you want to make the (large!) investment in time and money to make one of these

guns for yourself, the information is available.


















Paul – we will be hearing a lot about this in Brandon Comb’s interview in a few minutes

Belle – I’m NOT a tech geek….

Rob- I’m a tech geek. The real world applications for 3d printed guns is extremely narrow. These politicians are posturing for the news media.



Belle – At least 73 people were shot in one of the most violent weekends of the year in Chicago.

Between 3 p.m. Friday and 6 a.m. Monday morning, 11 people were killed and 61 people were wounded.

Chicago has been run by progressive politicians for decades. It has some of the most restrictive gun laws in the nation. We were told that each law that restricts the rights of honest citizens to own a gun would bring peace to Chicago streets.

Who is surprised that criminals don’t apply for gun purchase permits? Criminals don’t submit to background checks. They neither wait for mandatory cooling off periods nor do they register their guns. Only the politicians pretend to be surprised. Today, the thugs don’t bother to run away as they shoot innocent citizens.

Rather than admit that their political policies destroyed a once great city, Chicago politicians blame guns and call for more gun control.  Will it take a hundred, a thousand, or ten thousand dead in a weekend before the voters reject these corrupt politicians?

Rob- Belle talked about politicians. Let’s talk about the media.

Belle – Ed Monk – FACTS

Gary- Gun Quotes

What society in human history ever gathered its children together, then issued a public guarantee that they would be left completely undefended?  Alex Rawls

Hang on everybody, we’ll be back with our guest Brandon Combs of the Firearm Policy Coalition.


3- Interview 1

Brandon Combs-


4- Interview 2

5- DGUs  (at beginning) These discussions are NOT legal advice. Some of us are trainers, but this is not formal training and YOU NEED formal training. The Defensive Gun Use segment is intended as information, NOT as training. As always the opinions of the hosts are only their own opinions and not those of any sponsors or other affiliations.

(Per Rachel’s request)

Austin, Texas

August 1, 1966.  A date that affected both Texans and non-Texans alike.  Twenty years later, the State of Texas removed the gun free zone designation for state universities.

Charles Whitman, a former Marine, perpetrated one of the worst mass shootings in history.

Whitman was admitted to the University of Texas on a scholarship from the Naval Enlisted Science Education Program.  While at UT, Whitman met and married his wife but also struggled with gambling and bad grades and lost his scholarship by 1963.  He sought professional help for “overwhelming violent impulses,” including fantasies about shooting people from the tower.

Between midnight and 3 AM on the first, Whitman first killed his mother at her apartment then killed his wife.  He left notes at both scenes professing his love for both women, but killed them to spare them future humiliation and suffering.

Later that morning, he rented a hand truck and then cashed $250 in bad checks at a bank.  He then drove to a hardware store and purchased a M1 carbine, two magazines and eight boxes of ammunition.  At a gun shop he bought four more magazines, six more boxes of ammunition and a can of gun cleaning solvent.  At Sears he purchased a 12 gauge semi-automatic shotgun.

At home he sawed off the barrel and butt stock of the shotgun then packed it, the M1, a Remington 700, a 9MM Luger pistol, a .25 caliber pistol, a Smith and Wesson .357 magnum revolver and more than 700 rounds of ammunition in his footlocker.  He also packed food, coffee, water, binoculars, knives and other supplies.

At about 11:25 AM, Whitman reached the University of Texas where he obtained a parking permit using fake identification.  He then wheeled his arsenal into the Main Building of the University. He found the elevator did not work, but an employee activated it for him.  He thanked her stating, “Thank you ma’am. You don’t know how happy that makes me.”

When the elevator stopped at the 27th floor, he hauled the load up a flight of stairs to a hallway and then up another stairway.  There he met Edna Townsley. He knocked her to the floor then killed her with the butt of his rifle, striking the back of her skull then above the left eye.

M. J. Gabour, his wife and two sons were visiting his sister and her husband in Austin.  All 6 were on their way to the observation deck when they encountered Whitman after he blocked the stairway with a desk.  He shot both boys, one in the shoulder and one in the head then shot Gabour’s sister and wife. The two men then fled down the stairs to look for help.  Gabour’s youngest son and sister would become deaths 4 and 5.

Whitman then moved to the observation deck.  The deck stood 231 feet above ground level.

At 11:48 AM, he started shooting people on the ground.  Claire Wilson and Thomas Eckman were leaving the Student Union when Wilson was shot in the abdomen, killing her unborn baby.  As Eckman went to her aid, he was shot in the chest and died instantly.

And the shooting continued.  Four minutes after the shooting started, the first call came into the Austin Police Department.  Officer Billy Speed and another officer were with other behind a decorative baluster on the South Mall when he was shot through a gap in the masonry.

Basketball coach Billy Snowden was struck in the shoulder while standing in a barbershop doorway.  At 500 yards, he thought he was out of range and was the farthest victim from the tower.

David Gunby would be the 16th and final person to die from his wounds.  A shot passed through his arm and into his abdomen, severing his small intestine and injuring his kidney.  It was found that this was his one functioning kidney. He died in 2001 after discontinuing Dialysis. His death was ruled a homicide.  31 others were injured by gunshots, bullet fragments, glass and debris.

Officer Houston McCoy heard of the shooting on the Radio.  As he looked for a way to the tower, a student offered to help, saying he had a rifle at home.  McCoy drove him home to get the gun.

Allen Crum was a 40-year-old retired Air Force tail gunner managing at the University Book Store Co-op.  He saw a 17-year-old newspaper boy being dragged and went to break up what he thought was a fight. He discovered that he had been shot and hearing more shots, rerouted traffic out of the way.  Unable to go back to the store, he make his way to the tower.

Officer Ramiro Martinez was off duty at home, when he heard about the attack on the news.  He called the station and was told to go direct traffic. Once there he found the officers already doing that so he zigzagged his way to the tower.

While officers were attempting to reach the tower on the ground, McCoy and other headed there via underground maintenance tunnels.  Officers and civilians provided suppressive fire from the ground with small arms and hunting rifles. This forced the shooter to stay low and fire through storm drains restricting his targets.  Two students fired their hunting rifles from the front porch of their fraternity house. Other fired from behind trees and cars. They also attempted to get a police sharpshooter in range from a small plane but had to back off and only serve as a distraction after Whitman fired at the plane.

Martinez reached the 27th floor where he met up with Crum, Public Safety Officer Dub Cowan and Officer Jerry Day.  Cowan had provided Crum with a rifle.

After Martinez, Crum and Day found M. J. Gabour and Day removed him from the 27th floor, Martinez started to the observation deck.

“Are you going up?”

“Yes, I am.”

“Well, you’re not going by yourself.”

Crum asked, “Are we playing for keeps?”

Martinez, “You’re damn right we are playing for keeps.”

“Well, you better deputize me.”

It was then clear that to Martinez that Crum was not a plainclothes officer but a civilian.

Day and McCoy reached the two as they opened the door to the south side of the deck.  They hesitated to see if the sound of the door opening drew fire. They then entered the deck.  Crum stayed by the door as the other three started round on the east side of the deck. Whitman was in the northwest corner.  Crum fired a round into the southeast wall of the tower. This was the distraction the officers needed. While the shooter looked to the south to discover where the shot had come from, the two officers confronted him.  Martinez emptied his revolver and McCoy fired twice hitting Whitman in the head. Martinez then grabbed the shotgun and fired once more into the shoulder. He waved the gun in the air and shouted, “We got him,” but had to duck back to avoid becoming a victim of the suppressive fire.

In a post mortem autopsy, it was found that Whitman had a brain tumor which could have been a cause of his impulses.

In 2015, the memories of the armed citizens helped Texas pass on campus carry.  The impacts of the fire were plastered over and after several suicides, the tower deck was fenced in and is only available by appointment only.



Gary- Titusville, Florida.

Saturday in the park.  No not the Chicago song.  It was a “Peace in the City” anti-violence back-to-school event in Titusville.  Backpacks were given away and a DJ was keeping the party lively.

A dozen shots rang out.  Parents shouted names over the screams.

The DJ was live-streaming the activities and kept recording while the gunshots rang out going on.

The armed attacker came to the park looking for someone he had fought with weeks ago.  The two fought with their fists then the attacker left. He returned with a gun and opened fire.

As he crossed a parking lot, he was confronted by a good guy with a gun.  The shooter drew his weapon again and the concealed carrier shot him in the head.

The armed defender is cooperating with investigators and no charges are expected to be filed against him.


Paul- were the backpacks that were given out clear? Asking for a friend


Belle – Littlefield, Texas

A 25-year-old would be carjacker was under arrest after assaulting a woman with a knife.  The victim and her boyfriend were loading the car when the suspect told the couple that was his car and then assaulted both of them.

The woman tried to get her children out of the car during the altercation.

A neighbor saw the attack taking place and armed himself.  He point his firearm at the attacker. The suspect verbally assaulted the good guy and moved away from the couple and walked across the street.  As a Littlefield Police Office arrived on the scene, the thug dropped his knife and began attacking the officer. The officer was able to subdue him and then arrest him.

He has been charged with 4 different crimes.


Rob- I’m thinking that the attacker was intoxicated.

Rob- Nashville, Tennessee

Social media can lead to problems.  For two 22-year-old men in Nashville, it lead to the death of one.

The ongoing feud because violent during the beginning of May.  Demarco Churchwell first sent a friend to confront Justin Golson at the shoe-shine kiosk he works at inside the Opry Mills Mall although the friend denied threatening him in court.

When Golson returned to the mall after going home to retrieve his weapon, the other man aggressively approached him.  Mall surveillance shows the man backing up with his hands up for 20 seconds before the shooting.

Golson was charged with criminal homicide in regards to the shooting.

The Assistant District Attorney made the decision to drop the charges on grounds of self-defense after reviewing Instagram messages and video surveillance that corroborated both the threats against Golson and his backing away in retreat from the aggressor.

“It’s pretty clear from the evidence,” Assistant DA Jenny Charles said in a phone interview. “His actions were justified under the law as self-defense.”

Golson’s statements had remained consistent throughout the process and were corroborated by witnesses.

“From the beginning he has stated that this was self-defense and he was legitimately scared of Mr. Churchwell,” Charles said.


Paul – the guy apparently fired WHILE retreating

We post each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com  Please take a minute and share them with a friend.


6- E-mail, blog notes, and show close

Listener e-mail discussion

Mike sends us our only email this week.

No disrespect to Paul, in fact I totally appreciate and respect all he has done for the 2A community, but episode 455 was the best ever. It moved along quickly, everybody was bang on que. Transitions were crisp. There were no Ahh or Umm’s. Y’all got in, on topic, moved along, and got out or on to the next topic efficiently. Great production! Much more enjoyable from this end. Thanks!

Paul: Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?


I’ve been writing about armed school staff. I hope you’ll give me a read.

My articles are up at Clash Daily, at Ammoland and at my blog, slow facts dot wordpress dot com.  John, tell us what’s new at your blog no lawyers only guns and money.

It should come as no surprise that much of my blogging over the past week has dealt with Defense Distributed, the temporary restraining order, 3-d printing, and efforts at promoting free speech. I also learned a new word. That word is “gundamentalist”. It comes from an article by Reuters describing the campaign of Adam Kraut to win a seat on the NRA Board. A gundamentalist is one who objects to the NRA’s efforts at compromise and appeasement with those who would trample on our God-given rights. In that regard, I’m a proud gundamentalist. I also supported Adam in his run and will do so again if he decides to subject himself to it.

That and more is at only guns and money dot blogspot dot com.

Facebook listeners group

Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast.  I’d like to thank (Guests) for joining us today. So for Amy, Tracy, Belle, Dana, Douglas, Gary, John, Rachel, Susan, Grant and Rob,

(Paul, stop talking now)

Rob: Until the next time…

Gary: stay safe,

Belle: be aware,

Paul: and we’ll see you down the road.

Episode 457 – Training After Action Report


Paul: Welcome to the polite society podcast powered by the Firearms Policy Coalition recorded on Monday, July 30th, 2018, I’m Paul Lathrop

Rob: I’m Rob Morse and on tonight’s show we will talk about active shooter classes at the firearms academy of Seattle.

John: I’m John Richardson, and we’ll talk about armed teacher training in Ohio.

Tracy: I’m Tracy Thronburg, and tonight we’ll learn why the 9th circuit court of appeals is in the news again!

Rachel: I’m Rachel Malone, and we’ll talk about how we’re winning the fight against Red Flag in Texas.

Gary: I’m Gary Daugherty and in one of our Defensive gun use stories, a woman stopped an intruder at her front door. So climb aboard,

Rachel: strap in

John : and hang on!

Paul:  episode 457 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.

Show intro music.

Personal news from each participant (when you are done with your segment please ask the next person what has been up with them)

Rob- I went to a three day training class for armed school staff. These teachers become very serious when it comes to protecting their kids. Can you make the first shot of the day? I interviewed with Craig DeLuz of the Firearms Policy Coalition. I talked with Bill Frady on his Lock and Load Radio program.

John – I must apologize to our listeners for missing the last podcast. My allergies were acting up and I don’t think anyone wanted to listen to me constantly snorting and sniffling. Since the last podcast, I was on the Firearms Chat Podcast with Bill Chackes and Greg Hutton to discuss the nomination of Brett Kavanaugh to replace Justice Kennedy on the SCOTUS. I also spent time this weekend clearing brush on land I have hopes of hunting this fall. I did see one deer as I approached the property and my trail cam has caught more pics of deer. Finally, I was asked today by SAF to be a speaker at the Gun Rights Policy Conference.


Tracy – In the week since our last podcast, I’ve done nothing except carry every day!

Rachel – Last Tuesday was a very satisfying day — and a big win for gun rights. We’ll talk about it more in the news segment, but as a personal observation: folks, it DOES make a difference when our people show up in overwhelming numbers. Last week, all it took was 34 of our people showing up to give us a majority. 75% of the witnesses opposed Red Flag. Takeaway: show up to committee hearings if at all possible. In other news: I booked my travel for GRPC. So Chicago, here I come.


PATCHES: We still have some PSP patches left. They are $10 for 1 or $18 for two with all proceeds going to the Second Amendment Foundation. You can send PayPal to john@politicsandguns.com or, if you want to send a check, send me an email at the address and I’ll tell you where to mail it.

Promo about upcoming training classes here.

Ask listeners to listen to other shows on the network, name at least 2 shows.


2- News



Listeners.. last week we told you how a decision from the 9th Circuit Court had kept alive litigation to declare California’s 10-round magazine bill unlawful. Well this week, the same court has come out with a decision that the open carry of defensive firearms in public is protected by the Constitution.

The case originates in Hawaii, where it is extremely difficult (that is, functionally impossible), to obtain a CCW permit. Plaintiff George Young was denied a permit twice and so brought suit, arguing that if Hawaii would not allow concealed carry, then under Heller it should allow open carry. The District Court disagreed, determining that the denial did not infringe Mr Young’s 2nd Amendment rights.

Mr Young persevered, and early last week, a 9th Circuit panel determined that the Second Amendment  “..does protect a right to carry a firearm in public for self defense.”. The Court also stated that limiting such rights to retired police officers, or security professionals such as security guards, did “..violate the core of the Second Amendment.”

The ruling was very strong in its support of the right to protect oneself with firearms in the general public. This is the sixth US Circuit Court to interpret the Second Amendment in this way. The Court observed that, since it had already determined that the 2nd Amendment did not protect the right to carry a concealed firearm, there was no question that, under Heller, the Court must decide that open carry *was* protected.

Not surprisingly, 2A advocates have been extremely excited about this ruling, but it’s important to remember that it will almost certainly be appealed for a hearing of the entire court. The decision there will determine whether the case ends before the Supreme Court.



John – We were very lucky. Mr Young represented himself in most of the proceedings. He had help in the Appeals process. If like a case in Tennessee, it could have gone very wrong.


Rob- we drew two good judges. Does Hawaii want to lose small, or appeal and lose big?

John – It might not be up to Hawaii. One of the 9th C. judges could request the en banc hearing.



California is very aggressive in denying its citizens their second amendment rights. Most recently, they required that if Californians wished to retain their so-called “assault weapons”, then they had to register them, and the state set up a website for them to do this. However, the whole process has been a disaster, so much so that the Second Amendment Foundation is suing the state for requiring the population to register their firearms while failing to provide a functioning means to do so.

By the set deadline, 6,213 individuals successfully registered 12,519 firearms. Over a thousand people had their registration attempts rejected. A staggering fifty-two thousand applications were not processed by the deadline and technically, that’s fifty-two thousand felons.

However, that’s only the tip of the iceberg. According to the Firearms Policy Coalition, data on gun sales from state records show that there were an estimated one-point-three million rifles sold in California that would meet registration requirements. In other words, only three-point-six percent of firearms owners even attempted to register their rifles and the ones successfully registered represent a piffling zero-point-seven percent.

Brandon Combs, president of Firearms Policy Coalition, said, “In 2016 I predicted mass noncompliance with these laws and that seems to be what happened.”  He blamed the State for refusing to provide an education program to go with the new law, that would let gun owners know that the law had changed. He also noted that there was a well-publicized case of a man being arrested while attempting to comply and that this likely acted as a major disincentive.

There is little doubt that gun owners simply refused to comply with what they see as step too far by the legislature. This has previously been seen in New York and Connecticut.

It likely will not be long before the criminal cases, and counter lawsuits, begin.







Last week we talked about the settlement between Cody Wilson and SAF, and the Department of Justice, that has allowed the computer files encoding the 3-D printing of gun parts to go ahead.

As we expected, the anti-gunners were faster than a little greased piggy to go to court to stop it.

The Brady Campaign, the Bloomberg Redshirts and Gabby Giffords, jointly filed a 22-page motion for a temporary restraining order. They were strident in their criticism of the settlement agreement, saying, “Publication of these files on the internet will cause irreparable harm to the United States and its citizens…”. They claimed that the worldwide availability of untraceable and undetectable firearms would, “…threaten the security of the United States..”, adding.. “once released, the damage cannot be undone.”

However, US District Court Judge Robert Pitman disagreed, saying that the plaintiffs did not have standing to bring a motion against the Cody Wilson settlement, writing, “..it is ordered that (the motion) is denied.”

Alan Gottlieb said that the gun prohibition lobby “..threw everything at us to overturn our huge First and Second Amendment  win, and they lost. This is a great day for Freedom.”

This motion was one of many coming attempts to stop publication of these files. The New Jersey Attorney General has sent Wilson and his company, Defense Distributed, a “Cease and Desist” letter. and more than 40 small groups are preparing their own motions. Manhattan District Attorney argued that plastic guns could easily be smuggled onto airplanes and into concerts. Being untraceable, they would undermine the work of law enforcement.”

Listeners, what do you think? Email us at “onair@politicsandguns.com”


Rob- Doesn’t the Opera browser have a Virtual Private Network capability so you can download files.

Paul- These aren’t “undetectable” in my opinion you have to have ammunition to fire these. And there is no ammunition made out of plastic

John – How many of us have the files for the Liberator pistol.?



John- It was reported late this afternoon that nine states have filed suit in Washington State against the Trump Administration’s decision to settle with SAF, Cody Wilson, and Def. Distributed. I don’t think they have a leg to stand on as this is an area in which the President has power, can delegate that power as did Obama, and that Federal law is supreme.

Rob- the street price is usually lower than the over the counter price.



We have been reporting on the so-called Red Flag laws that are popping up like demonic little gophers in statehouses around the country, following the Parkland atrocity.

Two weeks ago, we reported on the proposals to introduce such a law in Texas. Now, we are pleased to be able to tell you that the chances for such a law are diminishing quickly.

Following some well-organized grass-roots activism from our own Rachel Malone, governor Abbott sees that opinion is “coalescing” against the introduction of such a bill, originally proposed as part of a new School security initiative. The governor asked the Legislature to consider such a law, but it has drawn unfavorable comments from 2A advocates. Even the Lieutenant Governor said that he has “never supported” such a law, and suggested it would be “dead on arrival” on the senate floor.

The concept drew sharp criticism from conservative and firearm advocacy groups. Nearly 50 people testified at the Senate Select Committee on Violence in Schools and School Security. It turns out that 75% of the witnesses who offered a recommendation were AGAINST the Red Flag proposal. Most of them cited opposition because the proposals would force a person to defend himself in a court of law – and possibly have his firearms confiscated — without even probable cause of a crime having been committed.

This united opposition doubtlessly was in the Governor’s mind when he said recently that his comment that the legislature consider a Red Flag law did not represent a personal commitment to it.

Never doubt the value of your opinion. Never think your vote won’t matter. Support your local gun rights groups, and never forget: they *are* coming for your guns.



Rachel: I’d like to note a few things. First, ALL of the gun groups showed up in opposition to Red Flag. Second, we’ve seen the Lt. Gov. change opinions very quickly when there was a huge uprising of gun rights voices. Third, don’t expect that this is the end of the matter – these things slip in in slimy ways in other bills and under other names. I’ll be watching.



Listeners, we all know how the Left raised David Hogg and others to represent gun control in the wake of the Parkland atrocity. Well, this week, a possible new voice on the Conservative side has emerged, too.

Kyle Kashuv spoke out against the usual calls for gun control after the murders, against the general trend of his classmates and the media. He reported being bullied and questioned by the police after visiting a gun range. Appearing on “Face the Nation”, he said, “As Americans we all have different points of view, and it’s important to represent them all equally.”

Now, he is credited with playing a major role in the success of the recent “Turning Point USA” high school leadership summit. The event was held in Washington DC, and attracted over 800 students from all over the country. The organizer, Charlie Kirk, credits much of the success to Kyle.

Kirk said that Kyle booked speakers, organized rooms, contacted media and played a role in almost every part of organizing the event. Last year, the conference drew 150 attendees and Kirk credits the huge increase to Kyle’s efforts at promoting the event on social media. Kirk said that Kyle “..worked his ass off.”

Heavy duty speakers such as the Attorney General, the secretary of State for Education and the Secretary to the United Nations spoke, as did members of the First Family, and Kyle introduced them all. Kyle only said that, “..it’s great to see all these kids here because they are the leaders on their campuses. These are the kids who are going to ..push conservative values.”

However, his true role was revealed when he himself took the stage and he received an enormous ovation, and cries of “USA, USA” Organizer Kirk said “He brought this to the next level. He deserves all the credit. Putting together these kinds of speakers is unbelievable.”

Listeners, why not tell us about rising young leaders in your community, and support their events with a few hours of your time? You can email us at  onair@politicsandguns.com



Paul – It’s great to see this, unfortunately I first heard of this today.


John – Gary’s correct. Moreover, social media like FB and Twitter are actively conspiring against progun voices.


Gun Quotes-

The only way to make sure your gun will always be there when you need it is to always carry it.  Massad Ayoob

Hang on everybody, we’ll be back with our guest (Name).


3-  Rob FASTER level II

Who thinks guns in school is a good idea? Sro trainers, sheriffs, some SWAT cops, school staff.

Can you make the first shot of the day? (you often think you’re prepared, but then find out you should have practiced more) (the teacher’s rose to the occasion, including re-qualifying on the ohio police training test)

Hand to hand

More TCCC- trauma care

36 scenarios, force on force and shoot houses, (I missed and feel sick.)

Some of these teacher developed their own local training courses. They do walk throughs of their facility, and they train with the local deputies.

Advanced techniques. (rescue, retention)

4- Paul- Active Shooter Interdiction

Rob- Paul, did you learn a lot as an observer in these scenarios?

5- DGUs  (at beginning) These discussions are NOT legal advice. Some of us are trainers, but this is not formal training and YOU NEED formal training. The Defensive Gun Use segment is intended as information, NOT as training. As always the opinions of the hosts are only their own opinions and not those of any sponsors or other affiliations.

Gary – St Pauls, North Carolina

On a recent afternoon, a woman was opening her shed when she found a career criminal and drug addict hiding in her storage building.  The thug lunged at her in an aggressive manner and she shot him multiple times in response. None of the wounds were life-threatening.

A year earlier the suspect was arrested and charged with felony possession of burglar tools and misdemeanor possession of drug paraphernalia.  The same day he was charged with felony possession of a stolen vehicle as well as a second charge of drug paraphernalia and possession of .5 to 1.5 ounces of marijuana.

The investigation into the shooting is ongoing and no charges have been filed.


Rachel- sounds like she had her gun in the safest place: on her person — even while on her own property.

John – Robeson County is one of the most violent in North Carolina. We’ve had DGUs from there before.

Paul – a successful point shooting

John – Lake Mary, Florida

According to the Seminole County Sheriff’s office, shortly after 2 AM on a Sunday a 35-year-old man and 26-year-old man were involved in an altercation in the parking lot of the Colonial Town Park shopping center.  The older man pulled a handgun and fired one round. The younger man retrieved a handgun of his own and fired multiple rounds. He struck the elder man and that man was pronounced dead later.

Investigators determined that the one round fired by the deceased missed his adversary but did hit a bystander across the parking lot.  The 28-year-old died later that night.

The younger combatant has been determined to have acted in self-defense and no charges have been filed.

He may have to address the death of the bystander in a civil trial.


Paul – I cannot stress how important it is to stay out of altercations of any type if you are armed.
John – I’m not sure what was the source of the altercation.

Tracy- Boonville, Missouri

When the 26-year-old criminal entered the Eagle Stop convenience store and acted suspiciously, he caught the attention of a customer.  When the thug approached the cash register and demanded money, the customer produced a firearm and held him at gunpoint until law enforcement arrived.

A woman who claimed the employee behind the counter was her daughter praised the customer for his actions and another replied to the woman’s Facebook post that the customer was her grandfather who went to get his gun when he thought something wasn’t right.  The man lives near the store.

It might be assumed that the grandfather was not licensed to carry concealed but in Missouri, open carry is legal so he could bring the firearm back with him.

The criminal has been charged with first degree attempted robbery, armed criminal action, exhibiting a weapon and receiving stolen property.


Rachel- And they say it gets too confusing when civilians pull out their guns? Here’s proof they’re wrong.


Rob- Was there a lethal threat? Would you shoot the robber if he got up and ran away?

John- One thing to note – Missouri is a constitutional carry state for both open and concealed carry.

Paul Dayton, Ohio

A man who had witnessed another attempted burglary last April had a case of déjà vu.  At the time, he didn’t know what to do, or how much time he had, so he recorded them on his phone and gave it to police.

This time, when he thought it was the same three people attempting to rob the same store, he went further.

After grabbing his pistol, he ran across the street and told the female getaway driver and male lookout to get on the ground.  When the male in the store came out and got in the passenger side of the car and then slid to the drivers seat.

He yelled at him to get out of the car which he eventually did and sat down.

He held them at gunpoint until police arrived.  When they demanded he put the gun down, he did. One of the males used that to flee the scene.  K9 units were not able to locate him.

The juvenile male suspect was taken to a juvenile justice center and the adult female was arrested and charged with breaking and entering.

This was the third break-in attempt of the year.

It was unknown if the third suspect was located or what, if anything, was taken from the store.


Rachel- Texas law allows for defense of property more so than other states. Be aware of your law. Know that legal justification does not equal moral justification. Also: this was a female “bad guy” – would you hesitate?



We post each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com  Please take a minute and share them with a friend.


6- E-mail, blog notes, and show close

Listener e-mail discussion

Wow, I can’t believe it’s been a year since Rachel left for the RPT job. I wish her great success working with GOA going forward.

Paul, I’ve included a link with information about measuring for a bra – you can figure out if you really need to move up a size.

Regarding the discussion of XD/XDM and their grip safety, that’s a feature that led me to purchase an XD as my first handgun. Since then, my confidence in me is greater and I don’t find that to be a necessity, but I also don’t find it any kind of a liability. As Matt mentioned in the email, being able to hold your hand off the grip safety when holstering is good, but still doesn’t beat just carefully holstering, regardless of the gun. What I don’t want on a defensive gun is a thumb safety, a switch you have to consciously (or unconsciously) deactivate to make the gun work. I think that would provide more opportunity to fumble it than a grip safety ever could.

And Paul – you’ve not had a 911? You’ve missed one of life’s great pleasures, scooting down the Authobahn with your butt just a couple inches above the pavement.


Paul: Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?

Rob- I will post several articles about armed school staff. I asked the best sources I could find if teachers should be armed to protect our students. Their answer was clear.

My articles are up at Clash Daily, at Ammoland and at my blog, slow facts dot wordpress dot com.  John, tell us what’s new at your blog no lawyers only guns and money.

In the news section, we reported that the efforts by gun control groups to stop Defense Distributed from posting their files on the Internet failed. Yesterday, Defense Distributed and SAF filed suit in Federal Court in Austin against the Atty Gen of NJ and the City Atty of LA for their threats to suppress the posting of these files in NJ and LA. The suit contends rightly that NJ and LA are treading on the 1st and 2nd Amendments, that Federal law is supreme in interstate commerce and export control law, and that the defendants are engaging in tortious interference. I anticipate other power-hungry politicians will be added to this lawsuit in the coming days. The reason these anti-gun politicians are fighting Cody Wilson so strongly is because they realize it is the death knell of gun control when anyone can make their own firearm.

That and more is at only guns and money dot blogspot dot com.



Facebook listeners group

Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast.  So for Tracy, Belle, Dana, Douglas, Gary, John, Rachel, Susan, Grant and Rob,

(Paul, stop talking now)

Rob: Until the next time…

Gary: stay safe,

Rachel: be aware,

John: and we’ll see you down the road.

Episode 456 – Just the Three of Us


Rob: Welcome to the polite society podcast powered by the Firearms Policy Coalition recorded on Monday, July 23rd, 2018, I’m Rob Morse.

Rachel: I’m Rachel Malone and we’ll talk about the 9th Circuit actually upholding an injunction against California’s standard cap mag ban

Tracy: I’m Tracy Thronburg and in one of our DGU’s we’ll talk about a Texas man who saved his wife who was being held hostage, so climb aboard.

Rachel: strap in

Rob : and hang on! episode 456 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.

Show intro music.

Personal news from each participant (when you are done with your segment please ask the next person what has been up with them)

Rob- I was on Bill Frady’s Lock and Load Radio program. I recorded another Episode of Self-Defense Gun Stories. Dry practice and I went to the range. Made my quarterly donations to support the second amendment.

Tracy – I went to Wisconsin and took the MAG-180, where I was the top lady shooter. The beer and cheese were incredibly delicious. I went out to KR Training taking a competition 2 class and a weekend-long class on medical and trauma preparedness with Dr. Ben Weger. It’s hot as hades in Texas, and we set a record today for the hottest day in July on record at 110. I’m wishing I was up at the Firearms Academy of Seattle about now.

Rachel – I’ve jumped right into working for Gun Owners of America! I spent a couple of days at the Capitol last week, meeting with the Governor’s policy team, attending a Senate committee hearing on school security, and preparing for this week’s committee meeting. I also met with friends who were in Austin for the RNC meeting — including our good friend Willes Lee. Tomorrow I’m hoping a LOT of Texans show up to the Capitol to testify AGAINST the red flag proposals.

Promo about upcoming training classes here.

Grant: ScotShot is running the NRA Range Safety Officer on Sunday August 12th, and Personal Protection Inside the Home class in September, over two days, 9/22 and 9/29. Details are on www.scotshot.com

Ask listeners to listen to other shows on the network, name at least 2 shows.


2- News



One of the many ways anti-gunners try to restrict 2nd Amendment rights, is to limit the capacity of magazines. California has such a law, and it is held up in litigation. Most recently, the legal hold from District court judge Roger Benitez was upheld by a panel of the 9th CIrcuit.

The case is not straightforward. California has banned magazines over 10 rounds since 2000, but existing magazines were grandfathered. More recently the so-called “proposition 63” set to ban these grandfathered magazines, without compensation for their owners.

Suit was brought on the basis that this constituted an “unlawful taking” of property by the government, and a summary judgement was requested to let owners keep their magazines.

The injunction to halt the confiscation was granted on the basis that magazines likely fall within the scope of the 2nd Amendment. The court said that States could not simply “invoke the phrase ‘gun violence’ to justify any exercise of state power”. They also said that the public’s 2nd Amendment rights may “repel criminal gun violence and ultimately ensure the safety of the Republic”, strong words indeed.

The California Attorney General appealed this decision up to the 9th circuit, but a panel of judges agreed with Judge Benitez, voting 2 for and 1 against. A decision on the summary judgement is expected in the autumn, but if this goes against the State, it’s likely that they will appeal for an en banc hearing before the full 9th circuit.

While it’s likely that they will rule in favor of the state and the ban, it is hoped that a final appeal to the Supreme court will overturn the law.

Listeners, this is just another example of how States use taxpayers’ money as essentially unlimited resources with which to reduce the scope of 2nd Amendment rights. The hope underlying these grass-roots lawsuits is that they will eventually reach the Supreme court. The nomination of a new Justice is raising hopes that the Supreme court will begin to take 2nd Amendment cases

Rachel-those are quotes to keep and use. Thank you, California….never thought I’d say that…?

Rob- Playing chess





Listeners, last week, we heard about the so-called red-flag law introduced in Texas, under the guise of school safety. Recently, we heard about the introduction of a similar, but much more Orwellian one in New Jersey, and we have seen it in action there, too.

Now, Illinois governor Bruce Rauner has signed one.

The governor signed two anti-gun bills this week: the Red Flag law and a law requiring a three-day waiting period before purchased guns could be taken home.

He said, “Today I signed legislation to keep firearms out of the hands of those who would use them to commit acts of violence against themselves or others,” citing it as a win for public safety.

Listeners, we are all familiar with the scope for abuse that these new laws have and it doesn’t matter if rights are restored upon legal representation. These laws put gun owners at the mercy of neighbors, teachers, ex-spouses, as we have previously discussed. Three thousand people filed witness comments against the bill.

More disturbing almost is the introduction of an extended waiting period.  Illinois currently has a 24 hour wait on long arms and a 72 hour wait on handguns. An effort to extend this to 72 hours for semi-auto and 50 BMG rifles was vetoed by this Republican governor, who wanted the blanked 72 hour wait that he signed this week.

Once again, “Public Safety” was cited: Bill Sponsor Elgie SIms said “this sweeping cooling off period will protect people throughout the state by keeping guns out of the wrong hands.”

Listeners we hear the same two tired phrases “gun violence” and “public safety”. They both translate to “we are coming for your guns.”

Rachel- who are they fooling when they think that criminals have no illegal means of obtaining guns?

Rob- miss 98% of the time. Keeps a domestic.






Listeners, it would be wrong to assume all high-schooler are anti-gun, despite what Hogg et al and the Bloomberg Redshirts would have us believe.

Earlier this month, Conservative students in at least 13 cities across the country rallied for gun rights, protesting the March for our Lives gun control movement.

“March for Our Rights” held rallies in Chicago, Los Angeles, and Washington DC, realistically expecting a modest turnout. Newsweek reported that about 250 people attended the rally in California.

While counterprotesters overshadowed the Chicago event, the organizers were putting a positive spin on the event. National leaders such as Maj Toure spoke, as did Cam Edwards of the NRA. The organizers have felt firsthand how polarizing gun rights is, with one of them saying that she had lost contact with former friends over her views.

Another stated that there was a “significant underrepresentation of conservative views in the classroom, especially history classes.” They noted that while there was huge publicity around the Hogg extravaganza, there was “no publicity assisting us.” Yet another said that he felt “I don’t necessarily have a voice… pro-gun people aren’t confident to speak their minds” and that  the right to bear arms is in danger, with gun-bans on the horizon.

Listeners, hopefully this will be the start of something bigger. It’s good to see positive activism even if there’s little publicity for it.




Rob: Gun Quotes

“Certainly one of the chief guarantees of freedom under any government, no matter how popular and respected, is the right of citizens to keep and bear arms. This is not to say that firearms should not be very carefully used and that definite safety rules of precaution should not be taught and enforced. But the right of citizens to bear arms is just one more guarantee against arbitrary government, and one more safeguard against tyranny which now appears remote in America, but which historically has proved to be always possible.”

Vice President and Democrat Candidate Hubert H. Humphrey

Hang on everybody, we’ll be back with our DGU’s.

3- DGUs  (at beginning) These discussions are NOT legal advice. Some of us are trainers, but this is not formal training and YOU NEED formal training. The Defensive Gun Use segment is intended as information, NOT as training. As always the opinions of the hosts are only their own opinions and not those of any sponsors or other affiliations.

Tracy – Houston, Texas

As a Houston woman arrived home, she was approached by two men.  They stole her purse and then forced her to take them inside her home.  What they were not aware of at the time was that her husband was at home and was witnessing the attack.

As the burglars were attempting to enter the home, the husband exited and opened fire.  This lead to a shootout between the three men. One of the two ran but the one who stayed in the fight was holding his wife, who is 3 months pregnant, at gunpoint.  The good guy had one option. A shot to the head. He shot him one time in the head, critically injuring but not killing him.

The husband and wife were not harmed during the fire fight.  The injured thug was taken to the hospital in serious condition.

The other suspect is still at large.


Rob- have a gun.

Hostage shot

Head shot

In the dark

Moving target

Pregnant wife

Rachel- South Fulton, Georgia

Some ex-boyfriends just won’t go away.

A South Fulton woman broke up with her boyfriend last Wednesday.  The next morning he was back at her house where she was home with her five children.  He was trying to break into her home.

She called police, frantic with fear.

The ex-boyfriend eventually kicked in the front door.

Once he entered the house, she warned him several times that she would shoot him if he didn’t stop coming toward her.  She did shoot. Three times. She hit her target one time in the chest.

“She was in fear of her life and was trying to defend herself and her family and use necessary force she felt was appropriate at the time,” South Fulton Police Lt. Charles Cook said.

He was taken to the hospital and will have felony charges filed on him.  There are no pending charges on the victim.


Rob- Aliquippa, Pennsylvania

Anthony Farley lives next door to his sister, Brionna Hicks, in the Pittsburgh suburb of Aliquippa.  When two men attacked her around 1 AM, Farley heard her.

Hicks was on her porch smoking a cigarette when the two men rushed her, shouting “DEA surveillance, wire tap.”

The men were wearing shirts that said “DEA”.  They tried to handcuff her while holding a gun to her head.  She screamed for her mother who was asleep upstairs with three children.

Her mother came downstairs and was confronted by one of the men who told her to lay face down on the stairs.

As they tied to drag Ms. Hicks out of the house, Farley, who lives in the adjoining half of the duplex house, came to the front door.

One of the two men shot Farley in the neck at which time he returned fire.  The second suspect drug his accomplice, who was shot in the exchange of gun fire, to the front porch and left him there and ran.  The police found the body where is partner had left him.

The at large suspect was identified by the victim and was considered “armed and dangerous.”  He is wanted on felony drug charges which were filed in June. Homicide, attempted murder, burglary and 15 other charges are now pending as a result of this incident.

Farley was airlifted and is expected to survive.


We post each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com  Please take a minute and share them with a friend.


6- E-mail, blog notes, and show close

Rachel: Listener e-mail discussion

We received an e-mail from Val.

Wow, I can’t believe it’s been a year since Rachel left for the RPT job.

I wish her great success working with GOA going forward.

Paul, I’ve included a link with information about measuring for a bra – you can figure out if you really need to move up a size.

Regarding the discussion of XD/XDM and their grip safety, that’s a feature that led me to purchase an XD as my first handgun. Since then, my confidence in me is greater and I don’t find that to be a necessity, but I also don’t find it any kind of a liability. As Matt mentioned in the email, being able to hold your hand off the grip safety when holstering is good, but still doesn’t beat just carefully holstering, regardless of the gun. What I don’t want on a defensive gun is a thumb safety, a switch you have to consciously (or unconsciously) deactivate to make the gun work. I think that would provide more opportunity to fumble it than a grip safety ever could.

And Paul – you’ve not had a 911? You’ve missed one of life’s great pleasures, scooting down the Authobahn with your butt just a couple inches above the pavement.


ps – Next time you have a layover in Rapid City, drop me a line, maybe we can meet up.

Tracy: Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?

Rob- Let’s say the goal is to take some medication. It is mixed into 10 gallons of water, so you drink a few cups a day..or do you pour it all over yourself and spill most of it onto the ground? The latter is unfortunately how we take firearms training in the US. Everything over a half hour is wasted. Worse yet, no one is sure which information you learned; was it the first few minutes or the last few? I found a few firearms instructors who teach armed defense the same way we teach music or martial arts., 20 minutes of new material a week.

I found Roger E. Temple in southeast Pennsylvania and Beau Doboszenski in Minneapolis, Minnesota. I also re-discovered our friends Jeff and Robyn Street. They first came to our attention when they brought a weekly dry-practice program to their church in Naples, Florida. Now that’s what I’m talking about.

My articles are up at Clash Daily, at Ammoland and at my blog, slow facts dot wordpress dot com.  

Rachel: Facebook listeners group – “Polite Society Podcast Listeners”

Rachel: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast.  I’d like to thank everyone for listening in today. So for Paul, Amy, Tracy, Belle, Dana, Douglas, Gary, John, Susan, Grant and Rob,

(Paul, stop talking now)

Rob: Until the next time…

Tracy: stay safe,

Rachel: be aware,

Rob: and we’ll see you down the road.

Episode 455 – Willes Lee & Sean Maloney

1- Introduction

Gary: Welcome to the polite society podcast powered by the Firearms Policy Coalition recorded on Monday, July 16th, 2018 I’m Gary Daugherty

Rob: I’m Rob Morse and on tonight’s show we will talk with NRA board member and political activist, Willes Lee.

John: I’m John Richardson, and well also interview NRA board member Sean Maloney about a recent court victory over the Columbus Ohio gun ban.

Jenna: I’m Jenna Meek, and a School Board in Lee County became the first public school in Virginia to arm school staff on campus… so climb aboard

Rob: strap in

John : and hang on!

Gary:  episode 455 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.

Show intro music.

Personal news from each participant (when you are done with your segment please ask the next person what has been up with them)

Jenna- I co-taught a scaling force class with Marc MacYoung, material from the new book.

Rob- I recorded another Episode of Self-Defense Gun Stories and got in some dry fire practice.

John – I spent part of Saturday and all day Sunday working the Grass Roots North Carolina booth at the local gun show. Attendance was about like last show – mediocre. That said, we signed up 5 new members and recruited some volunteers to work the next show. I also got to shoot my crossbow this week. The power of it astounds me. My arrow penetrated at least a foot into the target.





Promo about upcoming training classes here.

Ask listeners to listen to other shows on the network, name at least 2 shows.


2- News



You’ve heard of the wonderful work by Alan Gottlieb and the legal team at the Second Amendment Foundation in Seattle. This week, they achieved another landmark victory.

In 2013 a second amendment advocate called Cody Wilson invented a method to use the emerging technology of 3-D printing, to produce firearms and firearm components. He developed the software to do this and put it on a website for anyone to download. Now, it was possible for anyone with the 3-D printer to literally “Print” a gun. That laid the foundation to bypass every government regulation of firearms. Remember that it is legal to make your own firearm, though it is illegal to sell it. But, if everyone could make one of their own, then why would anyone need to buy one?

The Obama administration almost immediately shut him down and the Gottlieb team swung into action. Now, almost five years later. once again, SAF has scored a major victory for you, and me, and every gun owner, and it’s a victory that strikes at the very heart of the anti-gunners. This decision has several parts and should inspire every one of us.

PART ONE: It is now legal for Cody Wilson to distribute the software necessary to manufacture firearms and firearm components without restriction, after July 27th this year. The ruling allows the data that he has for every gun up to 50 caliber to be downloaded. This means that anyone with the necessary printer can now manufacture their own gun parts.

PART TWO: The programs that Cody has developed are open-source. This means that anyone with the programming skills can review them, revise them and modify them. What that means for you is that if you want to design your own gun, you can. Or if you want to  make a non-serialized part that would normally be registered, you can.

PART THREE: The Government formally defined the AR-15 and similar semi-automatic guns, as “inherently non-military”. How many times have you heard the term “weapons of war” used by the anti-gunners to describe everything from the AR-15 to pump-action shotguns. Now, the US Government has stated formally that this is not the case. The settlement states that “.. the government expressly acknowledges that non-automatic firearms up to 50 caliber – including modern semi-auto sporting rifles such as the popular AR-15 and similar – are not inherently military”. This may be the most important part of the decision.

Listeners, this is only the first step. 3-D printing to the standards necessary for making safe-to-use gun parts is not simple. No doubt anti-gun States will begin their own legislation against this. Anti-gun countries already do – for example, in Australia, possessing such a computer file can land you 14 years in prison.

The war isn’t over, but a major battle has been won.

Rob-  The gun isn’t the barrel. “The gun” is the serialized receiver.

Commercial items are regulated by the Department of Commerce, rather than treated as a military arm and regulated by the Department of State and the International Traffic in Arms Regulations. By saying that an AR is regulated by Commerce, it means it isn’t a “weapon of war”. That makes sense, since no army would ever field a firearm of that type.

John – The Dept of State and Dept of Commerce are issuing regulations that will transfer most civilian arms to Commerce instead of State for export purposes.


Rob- This did not go to trial. This was a pre-trial settlement.

Jenna- I wonder if the people behind the scenes are panicking now that the Gov’t has gone on record saying that AR’s etc are not “weapons of war.”  

John – Ghost guns are still a bugaboo in California.





Listeners, we have been hearing the national debate about whether school teachers should be allowed to carry firearms in order to protect their charges from murderous atrocities such as those at Sandyhook and Parkland.

Now, Virginia has joined the ranks of those supporting active protection of schoolchildren.

The Lee County school board just voted to allow its teachers to carry concealed firearms at work. This will start with the new school session in the fall.

The vote was unanimously in favor, although some individuals had doubts. However, many of the county’s teachers have already volunteered for this role.

Lee County Superintendent Brian Austin says that there will be a limited number of armed teachers in the 11 schools, and their names will not be disclosed. There will be a strict screening and training process. Th school district will pay for the training, and the firearms.

Rob- I publish a map of the states that allow armed schools and those that have programs in place. Time to update that map.

John – Lee County





Listeners, once again, American ingenuity has been flexed to the benefit of the US legal gun owner.

Inventor Kirk Kjellberg designed a defensive handgun to fire two rounds of 380-auto and then shaped it like a cell-phone so that it could be carried discreetly. Now the gun is shipping to dealers.

He told reporters that he was inspired to create the gun – called “Ideal Conceal” – when a 7 year old spotted his more traditional carry gun and told his mom, resulting in him getting a whole lot more attention than he was comfortable with. So, he designed a gun that allowed people to carry without having to “..engage other people about why they are carrying.”

The gun has its own holster – which looks like a cell-phone carrier, and part of it swings out to form a grip.

Listeners.. this is an interesting solution, just don’t mistake it for your actual cell-phone, or vice-versa….

Rob- I like this, and dislike it. I don’t want to get shot when I make a call.


John – It reminds me of the Lifecard .22 LR that is like a thick credit card. It is made here in Asheville.

Jenna- Furtive movement

Rob- caliber wars.





Listeners – Here at PSP we sometimes can only laugh at the ineptitude and dishonesty of those running to govern us under the banner of the Democrat Party.

Congressional Candidate Tedra Cobb, of New York’s 21st District, admitted to a group of supporters that she supports banning so-called “assault weapons” but cannot say so because advocating gun control would cost her the election.

In a video recorded on a cell-phone, Cobb said that “Moms Demand Action” (aka the Bloomberg Redshirts) had warned her not to admit her support of firearms bans during her campaign. She was advised by Tricea Pleau of Moms Demand Action, quote, “Do not say that you want an assault weapons ban, because you will not win.”

Listeners, this is the level of morality of the gun-grabbers – they will lie to your face to promote their agenda, and are being formally advised to do so. Remember. They *are* coming for your guns.






Listeners – you’ll remember the outcry when it was discovered that a murderer who acquired his firearms after passing a NICS check, would have failed the background check if the NICS database had been more complete. Well, now the FBI is taking concrete steps to bolster the completeness of that database and help prevent such tragedies.

More than four-hundred-million records of incident and arrest reports, probation, parole and other relevant information will be made available to the NICS background checkers. These are all contained in a database called “N-DEx”.

N-DEx – the National Data Exchange – allows NICS checkers to see details of an arrest, rather than simply that a person was arrested. This means that they can make more complete decisions. Stephen Morris, who has headed the FBI’s Background Check Division, said that the process will take about two years and should have been done a long time ago. Frank Campbell, a DOJ lawyer who helped set up NICS in the 1990s, agreed. In 2016, the FBI issued over 4,000 requests to take back guns from people who passed NICS incorrectly.

Listeners, let’s not bemoan the delay in incorporating these records. let’s be happy that it is happening. We legal gun owners don’t need guns getting into the wrong hands.

Jenna:  I am all for better decisions being made on more complete information, but how subjective are these decisions?

Rob- Why should a database include non exclusionary infractions?





Jenna- Gun Quote:

“You do not examine legislation in the light of the benefits it will convey if properly administered, but in the light of the wrongs it would do and the harms it would cause if improperly administered.” – President Lyndon Baines Johnson

Rob- Hang on everybody, we’ll be back with our guest (Willes Lee).


3- Interview 1 Willes, Lee- NRA board.

Interview 1 Willes Lee

Overland Park, KS, convention of Republican Assemblies & National Right to life.

Then Minnesota, Delaware,

then Austin for the RNC

NRACarryGuard, September, in Richmond, VA


Freedom Alliance cruise

4- Interview 2 Sean Maloney BFA, the city of Columbus, OH loses a challenge to their new bump stock regulation due to state preemption laws. Columbus isn’t a country of its own despite what the city council thinks.

Cincinnati, take note.


Bloomberg wants teachers disarmed. MDA and Everytown to Madison HS, the site of an earlier shooting.

Sean, what do you have coming up next.

5- DGUs  (at beginning) These discussions are NOT legal advice. Some of us are trainers, but this is not formal training and YOU NEED formal training. The Defensive Gun Use segment is intended as information, NOT as training. As always the opinions of the hosts are only their own opinions and not those of any sponsors or other affiliations.

John- Jefferson County, Alabama

Restraining orders are merely paper.  Door and windows can be broken for entry.  When the estranged husband of a women was at home on recent morning, broke into her home, he had rape on his mind.

As he tried to sexually assault her, she was armed with a handgun.  She shot him in the leg which caused him to flee.

The suspect was stopped by deputies and taken to the hospital with non-life-threatening injuries.

He was arrested and charged with attempted rape and second-degree domestic violence.


Rob- 500 sexual assaults a day are stopped with a firearm.

Gary- Dallas, Texas

A carjacker in Texas messed with the wrong mama bear.

Michelle Booker-Hicks stopped at a gas station in Dallas.  When a man climbed into the driver’s seat of her SUV and tried to drive away, she jumped into the back seat.  You see, her 2 and 4 -year-old children were in the back seat.

She ordered the man to stop the car.  He refused. She tried to put the car in park but the suspect still refused to stop.  Booker reached for her gun.

The gun was in the glove compartment.  She fired at him from the side causing serious injuries and the car to go off the road.

The suspect was hospitalized and charged with two counts of unlawful restraint and unauthorized use of a motor vehicle.


Rob- Mom didn’t have her CCW permit.


Rob- This is why Texas needs constitutional carry. Rachel Malone, call your office.

Jenna North Naples, Florida

Tom, no last name, had just sat down outside at Jack’s Bait Shop, which is also a restaurant and bar.  He just wanted a beer. At the same time he was sitting down, a black Lincoln with blacked out windows pulls up and does a “hell of a burnout.”

The driver then drove back to the front of the building, stopped and slowly rolled down his windows.  He then pointed what looked like a gun.

Tome ducked behind a cement pillar and pulled his pistol and showed it to the driver.

The driver took off from the bait shop really quickly.

The driver was a regular at Jack’s and was kicked out earlier in the day for causing problems.  Deputies went to his home and he resisted arrest by hitting and kicking the deputies. The deputies did not find a gun in his car but the arrest report states that other people also saw the gun.



Rob- Little Rock, Arkansas

Officers were called to a Little Rock apartment complex shortly before 6:35 PM recently.

Edricus Drains, pulled up to his apartment and spotted three people lingering nearby.  He put his firearm in his pocket.

As he got out of his truck, one of the people assaulted him and reached into his pockets.  The assailant grabbed the gun, at which point a fight ensued over the gun.

Drains fired three times at the assailant then four more times when the man refused to let go of the weapon.

Drain’s then ran to the front office of the complex and handed his gun to the security officer and told him to call police.

Officers found the suspect lying on the ground in a pool of blood.  He had suffered gunshot wounds to his abdomen. They applied a chest seal to one wound that was bleeding heavily and found another wound in the upper left thigh.

He was in critical but stable condition when he went into surgery.

Witnesses heard the disturbance and told police that they saw the two men fighting.  The pair was grabbing each other before “Drains pulled out a ‘grayish’ weapon and shot [the assailant] as many as four times.”

The other two men suspected in participating in the incident were interviewed and no one was arrested.


Jenna- Impressed with the amount of shots that were fired.


We post each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com  Please take a minute and share them with a friend.


6- E-mail, blog notes, and show close

Listener e-mail discussion

Gary: Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?


Yes, Armed Citizens Defend Themselves and Others..despite what Giffords and NPR say

My articles are up at Clash Daily, at Ammoland and at my blog, slow facts dot wordpress dot com.  John, tell us what’s new at your blog no lawyers only guns and money.

As you would expect, I had a number of posts up about the nomination of Judge Brett Kavanaugh to be on the Supreme Court. I think Kavanaugh was the safe choice though not my first choice. That said, I think he’ll be OK for the Second Amendment and we may finally see the lower courts get the comeuppance that they so richly deserve on gun rights. He certainly has irritated all the gun prohibitionists groups and delighted the gun rights groups.

That and more is at only guns and money dot blogspot dot com.

Facebook listeners group

Gary: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast.  I’d like to thank (Willes Lee and Sean Maloney) for joining us today.  So for Amy, Tracy, Belle, Dana, Douglas, Gary, John, Rachel, Susan, Grant and Rob and paul,

( stop talking now)

Rob: Until the next time…

Gary: stay safe,

Jenna: be aware,

John: and we’ll see you down the road.

Episode 454 – Rachel Malone


Paul: Welcome to the polite society podcast powered by the Firearms Policy Coalition recorded on Monday, July 9th, 2018 I’m Paul Lathrop

Rob: I’m Rob Morse and on tonight’s show we welcome back Rachel Malone!

John: I’m John Richardson, and we’ll talk about video showing Las Vegas Metro Officers freezing rather than stopping the Mandalay Bay shooter.

Belle: I’m Belle McCormack, and we’ll talk about Idaho getting a stand your ground law

Rachel: I’m Rachel Malone, and we’ll talk about Red Flag proposals in Texas.

Gary: I’m Gary Daugherty and in one of our DGUs a no shots fired DGU comes out of Milwaukee. So climb aboard.

Rachel: strap in

John : and hang on!

Paul:  episode 454 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.

Show intro music.

Personal news from each participant (when you are done with your segment please ask the next person what has been up with them)

Rob- Bill Frady and I talked about Self-Defense Gun Stories. That was on his Lock and Load Radio program. I also recorded another Episode of Self-Defense Gun Stories.

I got in some dry practice for my faster class. I have a room at GRPC.

John- A few episodes ago I asked our listeners if they could point me to a cheap Savage 110 rifle in .30-06. Well, I found it at an auction site and got it for a fraction of retail because the auctioneers read 111 as 3. This will be a project gun as I want to rebarrel it in .257 Ackley Improved and replace the plastic stock. I had thought about using wood from a maple tree I’m having cut down but I don’t have 10 years for the wood to age!

I bought my plane ticket and reserved my room for GRPC.


Belle- Spent the weekend before the holiday getting run thru the ringer by Chuck Taylor, then spent this weekend just past taking Zack Campbell’s IDPA Bootcamp with my oldest son. 2000+ rounds later, I’m feeling ready for the next few weeks. I get to hang out with Paul and Susan at MAG and our ASIC. Then TAC CON! Yikes:-)

Rachel- Lost a job, got a job. Went to Wisconsin and back for MAG-180 (shooting alongside Tracy and Dr. John Edeen!) Braved driving to Chicago because it was worth it to see Gary and Sherry, headed to Oklahoma for a run n gun this weekend! Working on fighting gun control measures….yes, in Texas. Show up to the hearing on July 24 if you can! I still need to make travel plans for GRPC, but I’ll be there!

Paul/Susan ordered ammo to be shipped to FAS for the upcoming classes. Home today, deliver tomorrow night then off until after we are back. I will not be on the next 2 shows as we are spending time with family next monday and we are taking a day off the following monday between MAG 40 and FAS/PSP Active Shooter Interdiction and I am hoping to get some rifle time in at the range and hang with some of the best people in the world!

Promo about upcoming training classes here.

PATCHES: We still have some PSP patches left. They are $10 for 1 or $18 for two with all proceeds going to the Second Amendment Foundation. You can send PayPal to john@politicsandguns.com or, if you want to send a check, send me an email at the address and I’ll tell you where to mail it.

Ask listeners to listen to other shows on the network, name at least 2 shows.


2- News


Another Year of Campus Carry..Yawn

Well, that was dull. Another year went by and legally licensed concealed carry holders were armed on post-secondary schools across the country. We were told that drunk and drugged-up students who had a carry permit would kill each other over parking places. Critics said that faculty would be shot down in the classroom for teaching unpopular courses. It never happened. It turns out that your average gun owner remains extraordinarily level-headed even when he comes on campus. Who knew?!

Georgia’s campus carry law took effect in July of last year. I checked, and the fresh wave of aggravated murder on campus by licensed concealed carry holders didn’t put an uptick in the budget for emergency medical services. Nothing happened, and newspaper editors across Georgia were shocked.

Kansas started last year as well. Given how flat Kansas is, we were told that the river of blood would overflow the state’s borders. Turns out the rivers never turned red..or even pink.

Campus carry was legal for junior colleges in Texas as of August of last year. It has been two years for Texas Universities and Colleges. You remember reading about all that death and destruction at post secondary schools? Texas has hundreds of technical schools, junior colleges, colleges and universities.  Texas also has 1.2 million permit holders who have been on campus.. and we never noticed.

Maybe a few years isn’t enough time for us to see meaningful results. Perhaps the tidal wave of on-campus carnage simply takes years to build up. We can look at real results rather than spin fantasies. 10 states allow licensed concealed carry on campus, though some states require additional training. An additional 23 states let the governing board of each institution set their own policy. That gives us many lifetimes of experience so we should have seen something by now. Colorado and Utah had campus carry for the last 14 years.. and nothing.

You noticed which states banned concealed carry because of the constant flow of blood and news articles documenting attacks by licensed gun owners on campus? No, me neither.

It wasn’t blood spilled on campus, but ink spilled by newspapers predicting a holocaust. The only thing murdered was the truth as the news media deliberately ignored that mass-murderers choose gun-free zones.

Please remember the media’s terrible record the next time a reporter offers up his fantasy about armed america..

  ..and happy anniversary to campus carry.

John – One of Pres Trump’s potential nominees Allison Eid wrote the decision of the CO Sup Ct allowing campus carry on the U of CO campus.




Listeners, you’ll have heard us commenting occasionally that it’s taking some time to get information about the response to the notorious Mandalay Bay hotel murders in Las Vegas. The murderer shot down on the audience at a concert using multiple firearms and triggering the call for a ban on bump stocks.

A recent video release may provide part of the answer for the delay. The video shows that the first Las Vegas Metro Police office on the scene, Cordell Hendrex, froze in place one floor below the room the murderer was using. In so doing, he kept hotel security staff from responding, and also held back a new officer-in training. By failing to confront the murderer, Officer Hendrex allowed the shooting to continue.

In an interview regarding his actions, Officer Hendrex said, “I said a prayer for all of us in the elevator. I could tell that the shooting was coming from the floor above us. I know I hesitated and remember being terrified with fear and I think that I froze right there in the middle of the hall, for how long I can’t say.”

His body cam video recorded him as saying “Holy S—. That’s rapid fire” as he remained on floor below.

A retired Las Vegas Metro Police Officer commented on the footage, “.. it’s really disturbing.. to see that he just froze..was so frightened that he didn’t do anything.. and not only him, but no one else acted since they were waiting for his lead.”

The trainee, Officer Vardin, reported that “..the team “posted up” in the stairwell between floors 31 and 32 to “contain the area and wait until SWAT arrived.”

Listeners, you’ll be aware of the painful similarities with the circumstances surrounding Broward County Sheriff’s Department staff in the recent Parklands school murders.

Paul – While there is likely nothing at all that the average concealed carrier could have done from the ground however this points out that WE ARE ON OUR OWN.

Gary –




Listeners, some of you may not be aware that it is actually legal for us here in the USA to manufacture our own firearms. When we do this, the resulting guns do not need to be serialized, and do not need to be registered with the police. However, it is *illegal* to sell or distribute them.

Most often, people do this by buying and finishing a so-called “80-percent lower (receiver)”, and then complete the gun with parts freely available in retail stores and on-line. It is these finished unserialized firearms that are referred to as “ghost-guns” by the media and by left-leaning politicians.

Now, LAPD have revealed the results of a 6-month operation where they have recovered a “small arsenal” of 45 of these unserialized guns from gangs round LA. The recovery of both AR-15-style rifles and semi-auto pistols was disclosed.

ATF Special Agent Bill Mullen said “Criminals are making their own weapons because they cannot buy them legally … or they are paying other people to make those guns for them to get around the gun laws. “This is a trend among Southern California gangs.” Investigators claimed that those prohibited from buying a complete firearm, such as felons, can still purchase an 80% lower, and complete their own, illegal, firearm.

LAPD commander Blake Chow said that the investigation recovered manufacturing equipment, and a line of supply that resembled a “fast food restaurant for guns”. A total of 47 felony charges have been filed.

Listeners, it surely won’t be long before the Bloomberg Red Shirts and Dems in general begin to campaign for the abolition of this right from you, the responsible gun owner. They are coming for your guns.

Paul – I have heard of people making AK receivers out of shovels. You cannot totally ban guns. A resourceful person will make them.

John – You merely see what the gunsmiths do in Pakistan adjoining Afghanistan.

Rachel – gun control is based on the false premise that evil can be eliminated.

Rob- and that criminals obey gun laws. What idiot thinks that?






Shortly after the Santa Fe, TX school shooting in May, Governor Abbott released a 44-page document titled “SCHOOL AND FIREARM SAFETY ACTION PLAN.” Proposals are listed under main headings such as “Making Schools Safer,” “Preventing Threats in Advance,” and “Enhancing Firearms Safety.”

Notably missing from the document is any mention of simply eliminating gun-free zones in schools, which would give teachers, parents, and volunteers who already are licensed to carry firearms the ability to carry those firearms inside a school.

Prominently featured were “Red Flag’ laws similar to what have been proposed (and passed) in other states. Governor Abbott claims that these would strictly adhere to due process. However, the proposal would allow law enforcement, a family member, school employee, or a district attorney to file a petition seeking the removal of firearms from a person somehow proven to be dangerous to himself or to others (no standard is given – sounds like a subjective opinion). The courts would then provide that person notice and a hearing, and upon finding that they pose a significant risk of danger to themselves or others the court would order law enforcement to take possession of firearms.

Even though the legislature is not in session, they are holding “interim hearings” to study various topics in preparation for the session which begins in January. The House of Representatives already held a hearing on the Red Flag proposals in June, and the Senate will hold theirs on July 24.

Moms Demand Action had a field day showing up to support the proposals on the first go-around. Anyone seeing any red flags here?

Rob- Since when do we strip Constitutional rights because of a suspicion that someone might misuse it in the future?

Possible Comment- Our justice system is supposed to prosecute and punish people who have broken an actual law, not those who are thought to be likely to commit a crime in the future.

Paul- Just think about the potential for abuse. A vengeful relative who dislikes guns could report someone’s gun ownership with a personal opinion that they are unfit to own guns. A peaceful citizen with odd, harmless habits could be reported as “dangerous” and be investigated and threatened with confiscation of firearms.

John – If the person is actually so dangerous, why are they on the streets? Wouldn’t you try to have them committed to a mental institution instead to get the help they really need?


Rachel- distinction between this proposal and other states. This is touted as “due process” since the accused is notified of the hearing and allowed to defend themselves. But…..they are still summoned to court WITHOUT probable cause of a crime having committed, AND guns could be taken away AGAIN without probable cause of a crime having been committed — just on an “educated guess” that the person might be a risk in the future.

Check texasfirearmsfreedom.com for hearing info and phone numbers to call.



Idaho senate bill 1313 went into effect on July 1st. This bill, now law, consolidated and codified the  right to stand your ground for the purpose of self defence in Idaho.

The law also clarifies that a person has the right to defend themselves against intruders to their home or business, without having to demonstrate that they feared an imminent threat to their life. The law now states that the act of forcible entry alone is sufficient for a person to reasonably assume the threat of death or grave bodily harm, allowing them to use lethal force in response.

An Idahoans’ home is now their castle.

Paul – This is great news for a great state.



Gun Quotes- The bill of rights isn’t about us, it’s about them.  It isn’t a list of thing we’re permitted to do. It’s a list of things THEY aren’t allowed to even consider.  L. Neil Smith

Hang on everybody, we’ll be back with our guest (Name).


3- Interview 1 Rachel Malone

Texas- How do I love thee? Let me count the 44 pages.

4- Interview 2

5- DGUs  (at beginning) These discussions are NOT legal advice. Some of us are trainers, but this is not formal training and YOU NEED formal training. The Defensive Gun Use segment is intended as information, NOT as training. As always the opinions of the hosts are only their own opinions and not those of any sponsors or other affiliations.

We post each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com  Please take a minute and share them with a friend.




WE all have done it.. it’ll just take a minute… and you decide to leave the kids in the car while you go into the store.

Well when this Dallas mom made that decision, her decision got a lot more frightening.

The mom stopped for gas at 10pm on Independence Day. She went in to pay and buy something from the convenience store, but when she returned she saw a man jumping into her car. Just as he was about to pull off with her two children (aged 2 and 4), she managed to get into the backseat of the car.

She demanded that he pull over, but he did not. Instead, he turned and looked at her, surprised that she had been able to get into the car. This gave her the opportunity she needed to reach between the seats, grab her gun from the glove compartment and shoot the carjacker in the head.

The car crashed into a pole. Neither the woman nor her children were hurt. The woman was questioned at the scene and was released. It’s unlikely she will face any charges.


Rachel: I’m glad she didn’t leave her gun at home or locked up in the trunk. I’m glad she had a momma bear fighter’s instinct to protect her kids against all odds. I’m glad that the bad guy had terrible situational awareness and reaction that allowed her to get in the car, access her gun, and stop the threat. I really hate pointing the finger at someone who successfully saved her life and her kids’ lives – for that, she is a hero. But Tracy and I were talking the other night about how we must use this as a teachable moment. Thoughts, anyone?

John – Shannon Watts claims the mom had tried to fire a warning shot and didn’t mean to hit him in the head. Really?

Rob- Let’s look at what she should have done. Lock the car. Have your gun on your body.

Paul – PLEASE POGO. What if he would have been able to drive off with the kids AND GUN?

Rob- sliders!



Listeners.. you’ve heard us say “POGO – Pants On, Gun On” and you may have heard Mark Walters of Armed American Radio say “Never leave your cave without your club”. Well, when it all works perfectly, the bad guy has a really bad day.

In this classic DGU from May 31st 2017,  hapless criminal tried to rob a convenience store where four off-duty police officers were shopping.

The suspect entered the store and produced a handgun. He was immediately shot by one of the officers and when he reached for the gun again, the other three officers shot him too.

Sometimes, you just can’t catch a break…

Rob- Sweet. Cleanup on aisle 3.





After a successful carjacking in El Paso County in Colorado, a man decided to drive the stolen car into Pike National Forest. For extra fun, our hero decided to shoot randomly at cars and other vehicles along the route.

Eventually, he stopped at a campground and, with his rifle once again ready to go, approached a camper van with it. However, there was one flaw in the master plan of our criminal genius – he had not considered that people who camp in Colorado’s forests are likely to be armed.

When he saw our hero approaching his camper van, the spoilsport occupant, who clearly lacked a sense of fun, opened fire, wounding the man and allowing the Manitou Springs Police Department to capture him.

The perpetrator is in hospital suffering the effects of multiple gunshots, and is stable. No-one else was injured.


Rob- Toxicology tech to room 7.

Paul – I would say that you NEED to be armed in any wilderness situation

John – As a reminder, even a tent is considered your castle and dwelling for self-defense purposes.



Sometimes the sight of a gun in the hands of a determined CCW holder is enough.

The George Webb restaurant in downtown Milwaukee was the scene of a defensive firearm use that resolved the situation with no shots fired.

When an employee entered the George Webb restaurant in Milwaukee, she was followed by a regular customer, who was cursing and swearing. The man had been complaining of poor service and demanding that his bill be refunded. When the server – our victim – refused, the man followed her behind the scenes at the restaurant and punched her repeatedly around the head and face.

When he continued to attack the server, another waitress pulled her CCW firearm and pointed it at the man until he eventually backed off.

The man escaped, but Milwaukee police know his identity. The victim is now back at work. The restaurant allows its workers to carry defensive firearms so long as they are properly permitted.

Listeners, this is one of the DGUs that never makes national news, no one got shot, the situation was resolved and the left’s agenda was not triggered.




John –




6- E-mail, blog notes, and show close

Listener e-mail discussion

Rob- Matt sends in our only email this week.

Hey Paul and friends!  

What are your thoughts on the safety benefits of a back strap safety and take-down process of the Springfield XDM?

On most handguns carried for self-defense, holstering and cleaning are the most dangerous things you can do.  The XDM can be held and holstered without engaging the back-strap safety release. I have carried it this way for years and feel much more confident of my safety when holstering the firearm with one in the chamber.

When you field strip most pistols, you have to pull the trigger to release the slide causing many negligent discharges but the XDM doesn’t require the trigger pull on take-down.  I understand we should clear our firearms prior to cleaning but, as Massad Ayoob’s recent ND at his training course shows, even the best of us can fail to completely clear the firearm properly.  (BTW, his is the best blog on the internet)

Why do more firearms instructors and police departments not recognize the immense benefit of these features on the XDM?  I understand that these safety features make the firearm more complicated and complications affect reliability, but as Mas says, “I don’t have any ego investment in the Springfield XDM; I do have some logic invested in the fact that it’s an excellent self-defense handgun.”

On another note, I know you guys want to reach out to new shooters and I’m sure this podcast is a great way to do that, but please know that you provide a valuable show to the “choir” as well.  Please keep on preaching and thanks for all you do!


Scottsburg, Indiana

Rachel: my opinion is simple. I think the XD’s added safety features are a definite plus. I also believe that you should never put your trust in gun safety features — we always must practice safe gun handling no matter what. I also do happen to love the XD’s and XDM’s for lots of reasons. Glad to hear you do too!

Paul – I want to say that Rob and John have blogs that are at least as good as Mas’s blog. I am NOT a fan of external safeties of any kind

Rob- I like the XDM. I don’t think the grip safety adds anything..and I used to drive a 1911.

Paul: Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?

Rob- Class Review- Fighting Pistol at Tactical Response

Another Year of Campus Carry..Yawn

My articles are up at Clash Daily, at Ammoland and at my blog, slow facts dot wordpress dot com.  John, tell us what’s new at your blog no lawyers only guns and money.

I have posted Parts 3 through 5 of my mini-bios of the potential Supreme Court nominees. Of course, by the time this episode airs we will know the nominee. In a bit of history for Independence Day I reposted my annual post about the Mecklenburg Declaration and Resolves. These historical documents preceded the Declaration of Independence by over a year and the date of the Mecklenburg Declaration is featured on the North Carolina State Flag. It is why the North Carolina license plates say, “First in Freedom”.

That and more is at only guns and money dot blogspot dot com.

Facebook listeners group

Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast.  I’d like to thank (RAchel?) for joining us today. So for Amy, Tracy, Belle, Dana, Douglas, Gary, John, Rachel, Susan, Grant and Rob,

(Paul, stop talking now)

Rob: Until the next time…

Gary: stay safe,

Rachel: be aware,

John: and we’ll see you down the road.

Episode 452 – Amanda Suffecool and Cheryl Todd

Full Episode Download: http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/452.mp3

1- Open and Personal News Segment

2- News Segment

3- Interview Segment 1: Guest Amanda Suffecool and Cheryl Todd Pt 1

4- Interview Segment 2: Guest Amanda Suffecool and Cheryl Todd Pt 2

5- DGU Segment:

6- Email and Show Close:


Please visit show sponsor Ammo.com


1- Introduction

Paul: Welcome to the polite society podcast powered by the Firearms Policy Coalition recorded on Monday, June 25th, 2018, I’m Paul Lathrop.

Rob: I’m Rob Morse and on tonight’s show we will talk with Amanda Suffecool and Cheryl
Todd about the upcoming Amm-Con 2nd Amendment media workshop.

John: I’m John Richardson, and we’ll talk about how state governments are legislating against you and killing your kids Second Amendment rights.

Belle: I’m Belle McCormack, and one of our DGUs is from Tumwater, Washington.

Gary: I’m Gary Daugherty and Michael Bloomberg says he’ll be spending $80 million to elect anti-gun Democrats .. so climb aboard

Belle: strap in

John : and hang on!

Paul:  episode 452 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.

Show intro music.


Personal news from each participant (when you are done with your segment please ask the next person what has been up with them)


Rob- Bill Frady and I talked about politics and guns on his Lock and Load Radio program. I recorded another episode of Self-Defense Gun Stories. And I made reservations to take my second year of FASTER training. I’ll interview with Craig DeLuz tomorrow morning.


John – Not much to report in gun news other than I’ve been talking extensively with the Haywood Co Sheriff’s Department and ATF. Huh? I had a call from a former neighbor while we were recording 2 weeks ago. He had noticed two guys around my old house which I still had stuff stored in which included some older firearms. To make a long story short, I had a break-in and had a number of guns stolen. Unfortunately, I didn’t have a safe there. Fortunately, I had the serial numbers on virtually all of them and 4 have since been recovered. One thief has been arrested and is facing felony charges.




Belle – Shot an IDPA match on Saturday, one of my last chances to play for the summer. Getting ready for Chuck Taylor’s Advanced Tactical Handgun next weekend and IDPA Bootcamp the week after that.

Paul/Susan made reservations myself!


Promo about upcoming training classes here.

PATCHES: We still have some PSP patches left. They are $10 for 1 or $18 for two with all proceeds going to the Second Amendment Foundation. You can send PayPal to john@politicsandguns.com or, if you want to send a check, send me an email at the address and I’ll tell you where to mail it.


Ask listeners to listen to other shows on the network, name at least 2 shows.


2- News






Listeners, we’re not going to stop saying “They ARE coming for your guns”, but did you know that they are also coming for the guns of future generations, too?


Legislation in place in anti-gun states such as California and New Jersey does just that. Instead of banning certain firearms, they give the owners the option to register them, and then keep them. In California, it’s rifles with the so-called “Bullet Button” work-around that are in the spotlight, while in New Jersey, it’s firearms that use a magazine capable of holding more than 10 rounds but unable to be modified to 10.


In both states they say.. “It’s ok, you can keep them, but you need to register them.”


So, “why is this a problem?”, you might think. Well of course, there’s the very real possibility that a future legislature may revoke that and then use the registration to confiscate these firearms. However, there’s a more insidious plan in play here. In both States, it’s impossible to pass these registered firearms to your heirs, so when you pass away, the firearms become the property of the State.


This process has been called “Generational Confiscation” by George Lee, a San Francisco Firearms Lawyer, who said “Once a firearm is registered, it can’t be transferred, handed down, or held in a trust,” adding, “once you die, it simply must be surrendered rendered inoperable, or taken out of State. It’s simply long-term confiscation.”


Listeners, please pay attention to what is happening at your State level. The antis play a long game. Call, and email your Federal representatives to push for legislation that will supercede these local regulations.




Rob- This is like the handgun registry in California. More and more guns become illegal each year.

John – Unfortunately the failure of gun control at the national level has made the gun control lobby realize that they could have more impact at the state level.




This week, Gun Control enthusiast Michael Bloomberg announced that he was making $80M available to “Support Democrats and their bid to take over the House of Representatives”, in the coming Mid-Term Elections.


He stated, “Republicans have done little to reach across the aisle and craft bipartisan solutions. They have refused to prevent the abuse of power, and to preserve the rule of law. Consequently, I’m going to support Democrats in their efforts to win control of the House.”


Listeners, when did he not?  In 2014, he gave $50M to challenge the NRA on gun safety. It is his money that bankrolls the major and the minor gun control initiatives, from Brady and EveryTown, thru Giffords to the current David Hogg and Co bus tour.


In the past, we have seen Bloomberg-funded candidates lose at the polls but we can’t be complacent. Every election cycle they increase their local infrastructure. What can we do when there is no-one stepping up with that degree of financial support? Call and email your local and Federal representatives. Donate to SAF, NRA and your local Association. But most importantly, vote.









Paul – Done little to reach across the aisle? Like Obamacare?





A political leader in the central European country Czech Republic has drawn a line in the sand against recent more aggressive European Union anti-gun rules. A new EU “Directive” to member states tightens gun control under the guise of counter-terrorism. However, the Czech Republic has relatively liberal gun rights, low levels of crime and low levels of terrorism. Failing to obey the Directive would subject the country to EU sanctions.


Milos Zeman, the Czech President, has called for a “European 2nd Amendment” for protection of individuals, their homes and the Nation, and in particular, for defense against Terrorism.


He said that Europeans “..should have the courage to invest in our own guns.” Speaking at the Council of Europe recently, he said,  “The level of international crime and terrorism is growing. What can we do? We can invest in the police, invest in the army, and have the courage to invest in our own guns.” He continued, “My wife has a pistol, but now I am guarded by her and not only by bodyguards.


He has launched a petition to that urges the Czech Government to approve an amendment to the Czech Constitution that would enshrine the right to legal possession of weapons for “..defense and internal and external security of our state.” The Petition, and others across Europe, is gathering hundreds of thousands of signatures, but governments generally are using the Directive to impose sweeping changes, such as the banning of semi-automatic rifles.









John – I find it interesting that the formerly Communist countries of the Warsaw Bloc care more about freedom, individual rights, and gun rights than the supposedly free countries of Western Europe.





Hot on the the heels of signing six new anti-gun laws, including reduced magazine capacity, banning already banned ammunition, two red-flag laws, a ban on private sales, and a ban on concealed carry, NJ Governor Murphy has requested huge increases in firearms-related fees as part of his upcoming budget.


Listeners, you have probably understand that those who may most need firearms for defense of themselves and their love ones, are the poorer members of our communities. Governor Murphy’s plans will make it more difficult for the unemployed and the single moms to legally acquire the firearms they may need. This is particularly heartless when it comes so close after a gang-violence inner city atrocity in the State capital of Trenton, where 20 people were shot.


Governor Murphy wants to increase the price of the NJ “Firearms Purchaser ID Card” (think Illinois FOID card) from $5 to $100, a 20-fold increase. He wants to increase the cost of applying for a pistol  purchase permit from $2 to $50, and the cost of a handgun carry permit from $50 to $400 (which is ironic, given that he just signed a law that makes it impossible for anyone other than the favored few and retired LEOs to get one)


One really has to ask how these proposals will make anyone in the Garden State any safer.









John – Banning already banned ammo? Is NJ like Animal House with its Double Secret Probation?


Paul – Never forget Carol Bown

Rob- Where is the US Human Rights commission that should look at the disparate impact of these laws on minorities and the poor.

John – What really galls me about Murphy is that he blamed guns on the Trenton shooting when it was gang-related and the shooter who was killed had been let out prison this year under new regulations from the Murphy administration.




Paul – Gun Quotes

There is nothing in all the world greater than freedom. It is worth paying for; it is worth going to jail for. I would rather be a free pauper than a rich slave. I would rather die in abject poverty with my convictions than live in inordinate riches with the lack of self respect.  Martin Luther King, Jr.


Hang on everybody, we’ll be back with our guests Amanda Suffecool and Cheryl Todd.



3- Interview 1


4- Interview 2


5- DGUs  (at beginning) These discussions are NOT legal advice. Some of us are trainers, but this is not formal training and YOU NEED formal training. The Defensive Gun Use segment is intended as information, NOT as training. As always the opinions of the hosts are only their own opinions and not those of any sponsors or other affiliations.


John – This will be different from our usual DGUs because this one is personal. It involved me.


I had been told that there was a probable break-in at the house I formerly lived in but still owned. I wasn’t able to check it out until the next day. When I got there about noon, the door was closed but I heard noises coming from the back of the house. At first I thought it was a bird or wild animal. As I listened closer, it was just too loud for a bird.


I returned to my car, retrieved my pistol from the console where I keep it while driving, and returned. I still thought it might have been a wild animal until I saw a flashlight beam down the hallway and then someone appeared. I drew my pistol and told them to get out. The two thieves were very apologetic and said they didn’t know anyone lived here. Right. I was armed, they were not, no shots were fired, no one was hurt, and they quickly left on foot.  As an aside, they have arrived on foot and there was no car or truck in the driveway when I arrived.


In retrospect, there are things I could and should have done better. I let them get too close, I didn’t take their pictures, and I didn’t call 9-1-1 though I did report it to the police later that day. Comments?


Paul – You let them get too close, how close is too close?


Gary –


Belle – Tumwater, Washington

A 44 year-old man went on a crime spree last week on Father’s Day but his day ended when two men stepped in to put a stop to it.

The spree started at 4:30 PM when he attempted a carjacking in Olympia.  He fled the scene and crashed his vehicle. He next encountered 16 year-old Danner Barton.

“There was a man, blond hair, standing in the middle of the road,” said Barton. “He was running at me, told me stop. He had a gun in his hand. He ended up taking one shot at my front windshield and it nicked my thumb.”

He then carjacked another vehicle and headed to the Tumwater Walmart.

Once he was in the Walmart, he fired into an ammunition case and stole ammunition.

He left the store and went the car of Ricky Fievez.  He shot Fievez in the neck and shoulder and ordered the man’s wife out of the car.  The shooting victim was airlifted to the hospital and is now paralyzed from the neck down.

As the man moved to carjack yet another car, two men moved in on him.  Jesse Zamora was prepared to shoot the man but before he could, the second man took the criminal down.  That man had asked the police not to be identified.

He later did come forward but asked for privacy.

According to George’s statement, he did not want media attention because he and his family “needed time to process the events, ensure one another’s well-being and just love each other.”

“I felt it important to give the authorities the time they needed to investigate an already chaotic scene of events and determine the truth as best as they are able without the hue of media fueled speculation and interpretation on the part of potential witnesses. The lives impacted by this event need to be considered, whether the gunshot victim and his family or the family and friends of the shooter whose lives will certainly be impacted by his choices that day.”

George was at the store to make an exchange.  While chatting with an employee while standing in the checkout line, he heard shots fired in the rear of the store.

Noting that he has a concealed pistol license and has had “significant training in the use of firearms and some of the legalities involved in a defensive encounter and active shooter training,” he found his family and exited the building.

The gunman went past him waving and pint his gun.  According to George, “My self and another citizen carrying a firearm (Zamora) followed carefully, unaware of what he would do or where he would do it.

After shooting Fievez, the suspect headed in the direction that George thought his family had gone.  He left cover and moved to intercept. When the criminal started carjacking, George moved to have a safe shot and fired to stop the crime spree.  The gunman exited the vehicle and was incapacitated and unable to respond to commands to drop the gun and show his hands.

George directed Zamora to remain with the gunman while he grabbed his first aid bag from this car and went to assist Fierez.  George, it turns out, is an EMT and responded as his duty and training instructed.


Paul –
Rob- A pastor


Paul – Medical care

Paul – Orange, Texas

We have stated many times, “Don’t take a knife to a gun fight.”  Someone should have told the 55 year-old hoodlum not to take a toy gun to a robbery.

He went to a convenience store brandishing the toy and demanding money. It was about 2 o’clock in the morning. The 39 year-old clerk working that night had his personal handgun with him.  He used that weapon to defend himself.

Police responding to the scene found the would be robber a short distance from the store, quickly assuming room temperature.

The clerk told police that he feared for his life and police stated that it appeared to be self-defense.



Gary – London, Kentucky

The homeowner was on his way to work one morning recently when he noticed someone looking suspicious.  He had only made it down the block before gut instinct kicked him and forced him to turn around.

The criminal justice major, Anderson Ruth, knows his rights as a gun owner and as a property owner.  That made his home the wrong one to try to break into.

He returned to his house and the man was trying to get the front door open.  He knew something wasn’t right when he saw him wearing a backpack, bandanna and carrying a baseball bat.

Ruth came into his driveway and immediately grabbed his sidearm.  He kept it out of view at first. When the would be intruder started to take off, Ruth drew his weapon and pointed it at him and ordered him to the ground.  He continued to question the man while dialing 911.

Adding to the stress of the situation, according to Ruth, was that it was pouring rain while the whole thing went down.

The man was charged with criminal trespassing and public intoxication.



We post each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com  Please take a minute and share them with a friend.



6- E-mail, blog notes, and show close


Listener e-mail discussion


Our 1st email with the subject line “Laws


Polite society,

I love your podcast.  I look forward to when the come out.  Listening to them ALMOST makes mowing in the summer heat enjoyable.

On episode 450 you discussed various changes to make parents more responsible for the actions of their children.  I think the premise is good. I am a firm believer that society as a whole needs to take more personal responsibility.  The first thought I had is that so many people are not aware of all the laws that are currently on the books. Those of us in the 2A community that are informed barely can keep up with our home state laws.  For the gun owner that is not actively keeping up with the laws. This will be one more thing that they may never hear about. Or only hear about from the media who spins it for their agenda.
There has to be a better way to have people take personal responsibility for themselves and their children.  One more law will likely not even make it into the minds of most of the population of the nation.



Paul –




Our next email had the subject line “Ep 450 Great show – things we all can do”


I listened to episode 450 (John Correia)

And enjoyed it.  In the mail segment there was a letter regarding the subjective matter involving which pro self defense organizations to contribute to.  I have membership with SAF, GOA, and NRA. I contribute to SAF, GOA on a monthly basis via my Bill pay service.


If the gun ownership statistics are correct and 42% of Americans own guns they could make a difference in self defense rights by just a small monthly contribution.  Using simple math let’s assume 250 million adult citizens. 105 million is 42%. If just 10% would contribute $5 / month to one or more gun rights organizations then that would equate to $52.5 million monthly and $630 million annually.  So if we could forgo one fast food lunch or overpriced gourmet coffee each month we could make a difference.


Another thing people can do is guerrilla marketing for pro self defense rights.  Buy yard signs and where legal place them in high traffic sites with snappy slogans:


Rapists demand gun control

Gun Control: Racist Roots

Criminals don’t obey gun laws… duh!

Robbers demand gun control

Why was Carol Brown, NJ murdered?

Castle Rock vs Gonzalez

Jesus & Guns Save Lives

Warren vs D.C.

How do you stay safe for 9 min.

 until police arrive?

Home invaders demand gun control

Politicians have armed security

 why shouldn’t YOU?

Stalkers demand gun control

Criminals & Politicians demand gun  



I don’t like the fear campaign, but it will pique the interest of the uninvolved as well as those who make irrational decisions based on their feelings.


I would suggest DGU news stats, but that’s a lot to put on signs, but you can put leaflets in laundromats and places where young students check for jobs.


I do think the most effective strategy has already been mentioned and that is to invite a friend who is anti gun to the range.


Also tone down the prying the gun from the cold dead fingers and similar rhetoric.  Those who are anti self defense are trying to make us monsters. We need to show them that we aren’t that we are the same as them we just place a high priority on self defense with a gun.


I do write my representatives when I can, but most are populist and only care about the next election.


For those Anti self defense proponents who ask what would Jesus do?

Luke 22:36 – He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.


From my understanding the sword in the Greek translation was for defensive swords.  Jesus doesn’t want you to be a murderer or a martyr at least that’s my interpretation.  And apostles carried swords and knives which were the modern weapon in their age.


Thanks for the wonderful podcast content you all provide.




“We can ignore reality, but we cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring reality”

-Ayn Rand


John – Show up! Use Delaware as an example.


Paul: Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?


Yes, John, it makes a difference if you show up, and somtimes the RINOs don’t like that at all.


Rob- You are who you hire..and fire. The Republican Party of Texas terminated their director of operations, Rachel Malone. Ms Malone was a grassroots activist before she was hired by the Republican Party of Texas. She was a passionate second-amendment supporter.


Malone wasn’t released because she was ineffective or abrasive. She was fired because democracy and grassroots activism is inconvenient for elected officials.


If I were placing bets, I’d bet on Malone remaining an activist as well. Contact her at-





My articles are up at Clash Daily, at Ammoland and at my blog, slow facts dot wordpress dot com.  John, tell us what’s new at your blog no lawyers only guns and money.


Nothing special as my time has been occupied with some other things so to speak.


That and more is at only guns and money dot blogspot dot com.


Facebook listeners group


Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast.  I’d like to thank (Cheryl Amanda) for joining us today. So for Amy, Tracy, Belle, Dana, Douglas, Gary, John, Rachel, Susan, Grant and Rob,

(Paul, stop talking now)


Rob: Until the next time…

Gary: stay safe,

Belle: be aware,

John: and we’ll see you down the road.


Episode 451 – James Kaleda, Jenna Meek, and Marc MacYoung

  Full Episode Download: http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/451.mp3

1- Open and Personal News Segment

2- News Segment: 

3- Interview Segment 1: Guest James Kaleda

4- Interview Segment 2: Guests Jenna Meek and Marc MacYoung Pt 1

5- Interview Segment 3: Guests Marc MAcYoung and Jenna Meek Pt 2

6- DGU Segment:

5- Email and Show Close:


Please visit show sponsor Ammo.com


1- Introduction

Paul: Welcome to the polite society podcast powered by the Firearms Policy Coalition recorded on Monday, June 11th, 2018  I’m Paul Lathrop

Rob: I’m Rob Morse and on tonight’s show we will talk with Marc Macyoung and Jenna Meek about their new book, “What you don’t can kill you.”

John: I’m John Richardson, and we’ll talk about the Broward County Sheriff’s captain removed from office.

Tracy: I’m Tracy Thronburg, and tonight we’ll talk with James Kaleda about his new podcast, Out of Order.

Gary: I’m Gary Daugherty and we have a DGU involving a teacher… so climb aboard

Belle: strap in

John : and hang on!

Paul:  episode 451 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.

Show intro music.


Personal news from each participant (when you are done with your segment please ask the next person what has been up with them)


Rob- I went to a two day training course at Tactical Response in Camden, Tennessee. This is a beginning pistol course and the emphasis was on mindset. It is about as good as a two day course can be.


Paul – Do you feel that even when you take a new course even as a beginner course you still learn things?


John – Since the Second Amendment isn’t limited to firearms, I’ve been investigating buying a crossbow. Models and prices are all over the place. At the top end you can pay over $2,500!  I’ve also been at work on designing my Form 1 .22 LR suppressor. I picked up a shop press from Harbor Freight yesterday to use to form the freeze plugs as baffles.




Tracy- The MAG-180 starts 13 days from today! This class hasn’t been taught in 11 years, and I’ll be traveling to Wisconsin to attend it. I have to shoot Mas’ quad-speed qualification, which I’ll shoot with my STI Trojan. Our own Rachel Malone will be at the 180 working as a range officer. Our own Dr. John Edeen will be taking the class as well. Stay tuned to future podcast episodes for my AAR of the 180. Everyone wish me luck!


Belle- Been teaching and competing pretty much every weekend since I was on last. Just took my last registration for our MAG40 at FAS today, its officially full. I am officially in the busiest time of the year and it’s a non stop ride thru September.


Paul/Susan : Quit my job – Ren Fair


Promo about upcoming training classes here.


PSP-ASIC July 24-26, NW Tac Con July 27-29, WA ST IDPA Championship Aug 11-12, Gunsite 150 Aug 17-19

Ask listeners to listen to other shows on the network, name at least 2 shows.


PATCHES: We still have some PSP patches left. They are $10 for 1 or $18 for two with all proceeds going to the Second Amendment Foundation. You can send PayPal to john@politicsandguns.com or, if you want to send a check, send me an email at the address and I’ll tell you where to mail it.



2- News- Welcome to the polite society podcast powered by the Firearms Policy Coalition recorded




In the four months since seventeen people were murdered at a high school in Parkland, Florida, a number of truly disturbing revelations have come to light.


Consider the perpetrator. It has since been shown that he was known as disturbed, and a disciplinary problem for the school and local enforcement officials. The local Sheriff’s department lied about the extent of the problem, citing 23 calls when records show at least 45. These calls started when the murderer was only 9 years old. He had been reported twice to the FBI. However, a progressive discipline policy had prevented legal action being taken, preserving the school’s stellar discipline record.


Then there was the School Resource officer, who chose to stay outside the school instead of entering to confront the murderer, and who subsequently resigned amidst an outcry for his prosecution.


Then there was the role of the person in charge of the Sheriff response on that day. It was Captain Jan Jordan who ordered her officers to form a perimeter around the school, rather than enter. The deputy chief of the local fire-rescue squad asked six times… SIX TIMES… for permission to enter the school and each time Captain Jordan said “no”. She even continued to decline permission after the murderer had been arrested. The fire-rescue commander cited Jordan as saying that she “..would have to check..” before allowing the squats inside. Captain Jordan had no training in incident command, or tactical command.


Now, after dithering a decision that cost the lives of students and staff, Captain Jordan has been removed. Mayor Payton said that this is one of many coming changes. Broward County Commissioner Michael Udine added, “When you have what you had on February 14th, there’s got to be accountability.”


Listeners, let’s hope that this extends to the school principal, the schools superintendent and the Broward County Sheriff, because we would hate anyone to think that this hapless Captain, who was out of her depth, is being scapegoated. WE’d also like to see your emails about whether the rescue squad commander should have asked for permission in the first place, considering his two suads each contained armed police officers













John – There is a story that broke this weekend that a former Secret Service Agent was asked to check security of the school 2 months ago. He did and made many recommendations. Nothing was done.


John – Sheriff Israel – “Lions don’t care about the opinions of sheep”


Rob- Ask your school board when they had an audit and if they acted on the recommendations.





The Illinois gun rights group “Guns Save Lives” has once again exploited the actions of anti-gunners to promote safe and responsible gun handling.


Once again, this shrewd and focused group of dedicated 2nd Amendment activists has used money it has garnered from turning in junk guns to Chicago gun buybacks, to send young people to an NRA summer shooting camp. Previous events have been in 2007 and 2012.


Six years ago, Guns Save Lives gave their first black eye to Mayor Emmanuel by harvesting $6,000 from the buyback and using it to send kids to the NRA summer camp. As a consequence, the city ended its buyback program and the leader of Guns Save Lives was banned from ever taking part in once again.


But, just a few days ago, Guns Save Lives was back with a vengeance to take advantage of a $100 per gun, no questions asked event. Turning in guns that were old, broken, rusty and  looking like they “..dated from the Prohibition era..”. The group were not able to sellback all 60 guns they offered but did “..very well..”

Listeners – what do you think of this idea? Can you run it in your area?


















Listeners.. do the parents of these whiny little babies know that they have escaped their cots and cribs? Is there some definition of child abuse that encompasses allowing your children to be exploited for political ends? We’d like to know what you think because we are bemused by the coming “Parkland Survivors’ Summer Tour”.


Yes, listeners you too can enjoy Mr Angry Foul-Mouth, aka David Hogg, as he “Bangs” his pouty little fist on the podium to “Demand Common Sense” gun control, and shakes his triangular little bobble-head against the “Child Murdering NRA members”.


You can watch in AMAZEMENT as Selfie-Hopping Emma Gonzalez tells people that politicians who don’t support this are “.. looking like they are going against kids.”


You’ll collapse in AWE as they ride a bus to 75 stops over 60 days, attempting to register young people to vote and indoctrinate them into hatred of the Constitution of these United States,  and to voluntarily giving up their Natural Rights, all the while quietly backed by the Democratic party and leftist activists.


You’ll remember with a tear in your eye, how script-reading Delany Tarr, haltingly quoted her handling Democrat move-makers with “When you give us that inch, that bump-stock ban, we will take a mile.”


And here’s some things you won’t hear these little pediatric puppets pronouncing purposefully on:

* the leftist discipline policies that made the murders possible

* the inept leadership that allowed their classmates to bleed to death while help was ready

* the history of racism and bigotry embraced and pushed by the Democratic party

* that their politicians are bought and paid for not by the NRA, but more likely by Big Pharma


Listeners, make no mistake. This is one of the most shrewd and well-developed pieces of gun bam ideology ever developed by the left. They ARE coming for our guns.











Rob- This is a media event.

John- I’ve seen some Democratic congressman saying they need to hire Parkland students as interns this summer.





Listeners.. one of the most insidious new tactics of the antigunners is the so-called “Red Flag” or “Extreme Protection” laws being signed onto the books all over the country.


Most recently, New Jersey joined the tide. Massachusetts Senate passed a bill. New York Governor Cuomo called to widen the list of people who can rain down gun confiscation terror on otherwise law abiding citizens.


So, what are these bills and laws about?


At their core, they allow a range of people… teachers, neighbors, family members, marriage counselors, doctors, psychologists and so on…  to call the police if they believe that someone who owns firearms is a risk to themselves or others. The police are then obliged to visit and temporarily confiscate the firearms. The burden of proof (and expense) then falls on the gun owner to prove that they are not, in fact, a risk.


Many of the laws, such as that about to be signed in New Jersey explicitly involve “ex parte” decisions – that is, the target of the action (eg, you, Listener) is unaware that the accusation has been brought until the confiscation is enacted. Many (also including New Jersey) do not allow for action against those who would use this law mischevosly or maliciously, by launching a baseless attack on, say, a neighbor, for petty or vengeful reasons.


Many of these bills and laws even allow “current and former romantic partners” to launch the attacks – the one in MA allows suspension of gun rights for up to a year. Law enforcement agencies are not required to return seized guns after the order expires.


Listeners, these bills and laws should scare you. A lot. They empower people you don’t know to hold a hearing in your absence that may strip you of your 2nd Amendment rights forever.


This concept is a HUGE strategic win for the antigunners. Imagine your ex-partner decides to do the dirty on you. Imagine your kid’s teacher is anti-gun and is worried about little John or Jane. Imagine your neighbor gets annoyed when you run your lawnmower. The possibilities are endless. Listeners, they ARE coming for your guns.









Rob- Over 90% of these orders are overturned on their first court date. Lawfare-

Please image what a domestic abuser can do to disarm their intended victim.


John- If the person is so dangerous, why are they loose on the street?


Hang on everybody, we’ll be back with our guest (Name).



3- Interview 1 James Kalida – Out of Order with James Kalida


First of all can you explain how you came up with the name for your podcast?


I was honored to be one of the 1st guests on your show, who else have you had on?


What do you see as the main focus for your show?


4 – Interview 2 Jenna Meek and Marc MacYoung


Book – What You Don’t Know Can Kill You: How Most Self Defense Training Will Put You into Prison or the Ground


  1. Quoting right from the introduction to your book…

Stripped of their veneers, martial arts and firearms training teach you how to harm another person. But society and the legal system have some definite ‘opinions’ about you doing that. There’s enough instruction out there on the physical parts of self-defense so we’re not going to spend much time on it. (There’s a lot of instruction on “how” so we’ll spend time on “when” and “how much.”) We’re going to invest more time on the other topics that aren’t as fun and sexy. These topics deal with how society and the cops will react to your defending yourself. Honestly, has your previous training covered them? Or does the dominant attitude contend that “it will obviously be self-defense, so let’s focus on the physical part”? No matter how much force you’re being taught to use.  


    2) Again from the chapter titled Courts in your book

  1. Ours is not a justice system. Ours is a legal system. It’s about what the laws say and how they are interpreted. This includes how your case applies to the law, not the other way around. Think of the law as a test that your case will be run through to see if it passes. A very brutal test in that once the machine is put into gear, it must run its course.


    3) Let’s talk a little bit about Tyler.


Rob- 5- DGUs  (at beginning) These discussions are NOT legal advice. Some of us are trainers, but this is not formal training and YOU NEED formal training. The Defensive Gun Use segment is intended as information, NOT as training. As always the opinions of the hosts are only their own opinions and not those of any sponsors or other affiliations.


Rob- Worchester, Massachusetts

Around 8:40 PM on a Saturday night, paramedics were driving by No Name Market when they say a 26-year-old man lying on the sidewalk.  The man had been shot three times.

The man had entered the store with a large knife.  He walked up behind one of two female customers and put his arm around her neck and held the knife to her neck.  Before he demanded any money or made any threats, the store clerk pulled his gun. The hostage fell to the ground and the clerk shot the suspect three times.

The man dropped the knife and ran from the store with the clerk in pursuit who ordered to him to the ground before running back to check on customers.

The thugs injuries were not life-threatening.  The clerks gun and license to carry were confiscated while the investigation is ongoing.

The other man was charged with 3 assault related charges.


Police: Knife-Wielding Man Shot By Store Clerk While Attacking Customer



Tracy – Ackerman Mississippi

On a recent afternoon, a mother had left to go to work, taking her daughter with her, her troubled brother-in-law decided to carry through on threats made against the family.  The man was armed with a hatchet when he attempted to break into his brother’s home.

Unfortunately for him, his 16-year-old nephew was home and was armed with a .270 caliber rifle.

When the man made a sudden and aggressive move toward the young man, he fired a single shot, striking his uncle in the chest.  When police arrived, they found the man on the porch, unresponsive and later he died.

The family has videos of the uncle walking around their yard with two machetes, threatening the father and the entire family.

The boy was traumatized and has not been charged.



Paul- I want to give kudos to the 16 year old young man.. Actually 16 year old man by his actions to arm himself and stop the threat. Also bad guy brought a hatchet to a rifle fight. John, I consider you a LOT more of an expert on rifle cartridges than I am, what is the .270 performance like and what is it generally used for?


John – the muzzle energy was approximately 2700 ft pounds of energy at that range.




Gary-Oceana, West Virginia

A high school teacher would often wonder what would happen if she came face to face with an intruder.  It is a common practice to visualize your reaction to various self-defense scenarios.

On a recent Saturday, her wonderings became real.

Her husband wasn’t expected home for another hour when she heard noises in the backyard.   The family dog was also acting strangely.

She thought the sounds she was hearing was her husband coming home but when she looked out the window and spotted a man breaking into her car.  She confronted the man and called 911. The man refused to leave so she told the dispatcher that she was going to get her gun. They tried to dissuade her from doing that but she persisted.

As soon as she stepped on the porch with her gun, the intruder decided that it was probably best to not be there anymore.  When she looked in her car, she discovered that the man had dropped crystal meth in her passenger seat.

The would-be thief was still being sought.



John – Gary, Indiana

A 32-year-old man and woman were attempting to break into a home on the eastside of Gary recently.  The homeowner heard banging at his door at 1 AM. He retrieved his gun because he thought someone was trying to break in.

When the door broke open, the 29-year-old homeowner fired once.

The want-to-be home intruders fled.  Within 10 minutes of the first call of a shot fired, the police were dispatched to a local hospital due to a report of a patient with a gunshot wound.

The female intruder was arrested and an arrest warrant was issued for the male intruder.



We post each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com  Please take a minute and share them with a friend.


Paul – Gun Quotes- If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.

Samuel Adams


6- E-mail, blog notes, and show close


Listener e-mail discussion


Paul: Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?


Rob- https://slowfacts.wordpress.com/2018/05/30/best-practice-to-save-our-students-from-mass-murderers-part-2/



We want to see things as black and white. Unfortunately, when it comes to allowing school staff to carry a firearm on campus, those laws come in shades of gray. Can a school board decide to have armed volunteer school staff on campus? Are the state requirements so restrictive that the school board can’t find a sufficient number of volunteers?


My articles are up at Clash Daily, at Ammoland and at my blog, slow facts dot wordpress dot com.  John, tell us what’s new at your blog no lawyers only guns and money.


We are in a culture war with those who would suppress our god-given right to self-defense. The latest salvo was fired by YouTube which arbitrarily terminated Brownells’ YouTube page this weekend. There was no warning and no notice. Brownells is about as mainstream and Midwestern as you can get. After the outcry the page was restored sometime on Sunday with no explanation as to why it was deleted or why they reversed themselves. Big social media companies are not our friend and we need to remember that. While there are alternatives, they don’t have the same ubiquity as the YouTubes, the Facebooks, and the Twitters.


That and more is at only guns and money dot blogspot dot com.


Facebook listeners group

Rob- Youtube is owned by google.


Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast.  I’d like to thank (James Kalida, Jenna Meek, and Marc MacYoung) for joining us today.  So for Amy, Tracy, Belle, Dana, Douglas, Gary, John, Rachel, Susan, Grant and Rob,

(Paul, stop talking now)


Rob: Until the next time…

Gary: stay safe,

Belle: be aware,

John: and we’ll see you down the road.