Episode 479 – Rory Miller


Paul: Welcome to the polite society podcast powered by the Firearms Policy Coalition recorded on Monday, January 14, 2019, I’m Paul Lathrop.

Rob: I’m Rob Morse and we’ll talk with Rory Miller about how we think about and misapprehend violence.

Belle: I’m Belle McCormack, and we’ll talk about getting rid of gun free zones in Wyoming.

Tracy: I’m Tracy Thronburg, and we’ll learn about new proposed gun control legislation in both the house and the senate.

Gary: I’m Gary Daugherty and in one of our DGUs a woman broke the law to save her life… so climb aboard

Belle: strap in

Rob: and hang on!

Paul: episode 479 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.

Show intro music.

Personal news from each participant (when you are done with your segment please ask the next person what has been up with them)

Rob- Bought some gun parts for test and evaluation. I’ll let you know how it goes. Carried every day. Should have done some dry practice and range practice. I hope to this week.



Tracy – I taught handgun fundamentals and several lessons last week, and on Saturday, I learned how to safely use my chainsaw, and I got to cut down an oak tree. I had received the chainsaw as a Valentine’s day gift last year, but didn’t want to use it until I had someone show me about maintenance and how to safely use it. I had so much fun!

Belle-I have been taking a bit of time to enjoy the outdoors, we’ve had some cold but sunny weather. My little girl finished wrestling season and jumped into BJJ, so crazy practice schedule continues. The WA ST IDPA Championship opens for registration tomorrow January 15th, bracing myself for the chaos that will happen there. Going to shoot some IDPA for the next couple weekend til classes start in February.

Grant- I’ve been quite busy on the shooting front. On Thursday night three of us met up at the range to play with our 365s – it seems we all prefer someone else’s gun to shoot with! I also went to the official open day of a new range in Wayne, up north in New Jersey. It’s a really great facility with a broad offering of guns to rent and a well-designed 25 yrd range, where shooters can send targets to any distance, program them to turn and so on. If you live in that area it’s well worth a look. It’s called “Reloaderz NJ” and it’s at 1813 Rt 23 in NJ. They also have their own Well-Armed Women Chapter, which is an added plus. Finally, I taught a civilian TASER class on Sunday. I’m hoping this useful little non-lethal defense tool will take off in NJ.


Promo about upcoming training classes here.

Ask listeners to listen to other shows on the network, name at least 2 shows.


2- News

POLITE SOCIETY NEWS, January 14th 2019

Hi everyone. Please remember to send your comments on the news to “onair@politicsandguns.com”




A bill overriding local gun control laws has been introduced in the Wyoming legislature. It has very strong support in both the state Senate and Assembly, with almost half of each chamber already signed on as co-sponsors.

The Bill would repeal most gun-free zones and allow concealed weapon permit holders to carry pretty much anywhere. The bill also clarifies that only the State Legislature may regulate firearms, weapons and ammunition, thereby introducing State Preemption.

The proposed legislation would preempt bans on firearms in all public schools, colleges and universities, as well as government meetings, and college and professional athletic events, opening them for concealed carry.

As you might expect, there is some debate around the concept, with educational representatives and local officials falling on either side of the Bill. Two years ago, the State passed a Bill that allows individual school districts to decide whether staff should be allowed to carry their firearms in school, for example. Currently, Wyoming does not allow concealed carry on college or university campuses either.

The Bill is waiting to be assigned to committee, so it’s still in its early days.

So, write and tell us what you think. Should there be State Preemption, or should individual cities and districts decide firearms policy? Should adult students and staff be allowed to carry on campus if they choose? Our email address is: onair at politics and guns dot com



Rob- We already know about the bill. What we’ll discover is the character of the Wyoming legislature when they assign the bill to committee. With half the legislature as co-sponsors.




As promised, Federal Democrats have wasted little time in introducing “common sense” gun control Bills.

In the Assembly, the push so far has been on the so-called “gun show loophole” with a Bill that would prevent private, person-to-person sales and require all gun sales to go through the 4473 system. Interestingly, several Republican members of the House are co-sponsoring, from New York, New Jersey and Florida.

In the Senate, the push is to resurrect the so-called “assault weapons” ban, with a list of 205 guns banned by name. Also banned are: devices that increase rate of fire (including, but not restricted to, bump stocks), banning AR/AK style pistols and the pistol brace, and magazines with capacity of over 10 rounds. So far, the list of 205 banned firearms does not seem to be available. Most interestingly, the bill also proposes banning alternative stocks that do not include a pistol grip, but designed to “circumvent gun control”.

Also in the Senate, Republican Marco Rubio has introduced a bill for a Federal Red Flag law, similar to the one that New Florida Senator Scott signed while he was governor.

These Bills and many others are introduced under cover of preventing mass murder tragedies such as the one at Parkland.

However, no-one seems to be introducing federal legislation that would bring in a National “FASTER” program, or deal directly with the facts of the Parkland report – that only armed volunteers on scene, willing to engage a threat directly and immediately, have the chance to minimize the number of injuries.

What do you think? What would *you* do to protect children in your schools? Does banning guns work or is “protecting children” just a cynical ploy to disarm the population? You can write to us at: onair at politics and guns dot com.



Rob- John Lott said that 65% of mass. Gun control doesn’t have to make us safer. It only has to sound good on TV.





New Florida Governor Rick De Santis has acted on the final report of the Parkland mass murder and fired the Sheriff of Broward County, Scott Israel, whose policies and procedures governed the disastrous response to the attack.

He has been replaced with Sheriff Gregory Tony, by the new Governor.

Former Sheriff Israel was very vocal in the calls for additional gun control following the murders, and led the attack against the NRA in the shameful CNN Round Table that took place shortly after.

It was only later that it became apparent that his department, and others, had multiple opportunities to prevent the event from ever happening. It also recently became clear that members of this sheriff’s department were in no hurry to enter the school after they arrived on the scene. This not only allowed the murderer to kill more defenseless individuals, but to actually escape the scene completely.

Let’s hope that this is only the first step that new Governor De Santis takes to provide posthumous justice to the dead and their families.

Please, write and tell us what you think about this whole affair, and what it tells us about local government in general. You can email us at: onair at politics and guns dot com.



Rob- Israel’s political allies didn’t save him.

Paul – At risk of sounding crass…




MA Attorney General Maura Healey made a blatant attack on firearms owners and retailers two years ago. She introduced an enforcement notice that banned all AR and AK pattern rifles in the Commonwealth. She did this with little consultation and almost no notice.

Not surprisingly, Massachusetts firearm retailers, supported by the National Shooting Sports Foundation sued. More surprisingly they won. Of course, AG Healey appealed the case.

The First Circuit court of the US Court of Appeals dismissed Healey’s appeal. That leaves the suit open to go forward and challenge the attorney general’s enforcement notice. The decision against Healey’s appeal was swift and merciless, stating that she had indeed denied due process to those retailers affected.

The attorney for the retailers and NSSF said that AG Healey’s appeal was frivolous, and that she had overstepped her legal authority in issuing the Notice back in 2016.

Quote, “because criminal penalties can result due to Healey’s unilateral reinterpretation of a state statute, done without administrative process or input from affected parties, her office exceeded its lawful authority….  retailers were deprived of their due process protections under the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments. Attorney General Healey’s action is unconstitutional.”

Of course, this isn’t the end of the matter and of course, the MA State AG has what amounts to limitless funds to fight her case in court. This is a good start, but the issue is far from settled.

So, have you seen similar fights in your state? What do you think of officials who decide to “reinterpret” the law? Write to us at: onair at politics and guns, and tell us.



Paul- Gun Quotes- The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them.  ..to cover with the veil of secrecy the common routine of business, is an abomination in the eyes of every intelligent man, and every friend to his country. Patrick Henry

Hang on everybody, we’ll be back with our guest Rory Miller.


3- Interview 1- Rory Miller.


Conflict Communication

4- Interview 2

5- DGUs  (at beginning) These discussions are NOT legal advice. Some of us are trainers, but this is not formal training and YOU NEED formal training. The Defensive Gun Use segment is intended as information, NOT as training. As always the opinions of the hosts are only their own opinions and not those of any sponsors or other affiliations.

Gary – Chicago, Illinois
Civil disobedience.  Refusing to go along with a law because it is unlawful or immoral.  For a 25 year old Chicago woman, it saved her life potentially.

She was sitting at the bus stop at 5:45 AM recently when a 19 year old man wearing a hoodie approached her.  He pulled a gun and attempted to rob her. The woman is a concealed carry holder and was armed as well.

She pulled out her own weapon and shot the attempted robber in the neck.  The suspect ran from the scene and was found a block away. He was taken to the hospital where he died.  He lived about a block away from where he was shot. The autopsy found that he died of a gunshot wound, and his death was ruled a homicide.

Reports have the would-be robber stealing her gun from her before running and the police were still looking for both guns.  Surveillance video from two different cameras show the man approaching the woman but then jump to her on the ground and the man running away.  From all stories, this is should be listed as a justifiable homicide.

This budding career criminal was listed on the Gun Control Memorial site.



Paul – She obviously needs more training than the Illinois government requires.

Grant – yes – bus stops are like elevators – normal personal space distances are much reduced

Grant – Little Rock, Arkansas
The list keeps growing of things not to bring to a gunfight.  The list now includes knife, machete, samurai sword, club-style weapons, or fists.

Last week, police were called to an apartment in Little Rock for a homicide.  They reported that a 59 year old man attacked a 65 year old man with a “club style weapon”.  The older man shot and killed his attacker. The older man was taken to the hospital for treatment of head injuries.

The victim’s brother was the one who called 911.

The victim is the property manager of the apartments and based on statements by police will not be charged.  The case is being sent to the Pulaski County Prosecutor’s Office for review.


Paul – yet another


Rob- Cleveland, Ohio
Two men walked into Paul’s Serve Rite Food Market in Cleveland central neighborhood. They had hoods pulled up tight over their heads and scarves covering their faces.

The 59 year old store owner and his 70 year old employee repeatedly instructed the duo to take off their hoods.  They refused, pulled out guns and demanded the men give them the money from the cash register.

A third employee was working the register and handed the man the drawer, which had about $80 in it.

The 70 year old saw the robbers with their guns out and pulled out his own gun, firing four shots.  The owner was also armed and he fired once. The two ran from the store and went in different directions.

The suspects did not appear to be injured. There were 5 children in the store at the time and thankfully, none of them was hurt either.  The duo was still being sought.


Paul – At least 5 shots were fired and NO HITS?!?! Training anyone?


We post each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com  Please take a minute and share them with a friend.


6- E-mail, blog notes, and show close

Email address onair@politicsandguns.com phone # 605-215-1438

Listener e-mail discussion-

Rob- Joseph from New Jersey sent us a picture of a letter from the Bergen county prosecutor. Law enforcement officers, including those who are “on call” are not allowed to have a firearms magazine with greater than 10 rounds. That law should be revised, but it applies as written.

Rob- Why?

Gary- Email from Val

Several times now Rob has mentioned that some 90% of Red Flag Law confiscations get reversed in court.

I can’t find any support for that fact, and would like to have the source to use.

So, can you cite a source?

As long as we’re talking about the Red Flag Laws, how can people not see that these are purely and simply a gun confiscation tactic. If they were about protecting people, why are the victims left with their vehicles, gas cans, chain saws, axes, and all sorts of other dangerous things?



Rapid City

Grant: Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?


My articles are up at Clash Daily, at Ammoland and at my blog, slow facts dot wordpress dot com. .

That and more is at only guns and money dot blogspot dot com.

 Grant  Facebook listeners group

Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast.  I’d like to thank (Rory Miller) for joining us today. So for Amy, Tracy, Belle, Dana, Douglas, Gary, John, Rachel, Susan, Grant and Rob,

(Paul, stop talking now)

Rob: Until the next time…

Tracy: stay safe,

Belle: be aware,

Gary: and we’ll see you down the road.