Episode 455 – Willes Lee & Sean Maloney

1- Introduction

Gary: Welcome to the polite society podcast powered by the Firearms Policy Coalition recorded on Monday, July 16th, 2018 I’m Gary Daugherty

Rob: I’m Rob Morse and on tonight’s show we will talk with NRA board member and political activist, Willes Lee.

John: I’m John Richardson, and well also interview NRA board member Sean Maloney about a recent court victory over the Columbus Ohio gun ban.

Jenna: I’m Jenna Meek, and a School Board in Lee County became the first public school in Virginia to arm school staff on campus… so climb aboard

Rob: strap in

John : and hang on!

Gary:  episode 455 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.

Show intro music.

Personal news from each participant (when you are done with your segment please ask the next person what has been up with them)

Jenna- I co-taught a scaling force class with Marc MacYoung, material from the new book.

Rob- I recorded another Episode of Self-Defense Gun Stories and got in some dry fire practice.

John – I spent part of Saturday and all day Sunday working the Grass Roots North Carolina booth at the local gun show. Attendance was about like last show – mediocre. That said, we signed up 5 new members and recruited some volunteers to work the next show. I also got to shoot my crossbow this week. The power of it astounds me. My arrow penetrated at least a foot into the target.





Promo about upcoming training classes here.

Ask listeners to listen to other shows on the network, name at least 2 shows.


2- News



You’ve heard of the wonderful work by Alan Gottlieb and the legal team at the Second Amendment Foundation in Seattle. This week, they achieved another landmark victory.

In 2013 a second amendment advocate called Cody Wilson invented a method to use the emerging technology of 3-D printing, to produce firearms and firearm components. He developed the software to do this and put it on a website for anyone to download. Now, it was possible for anyone with the 3-D printer to literally “Print” a gun. That laid the foundation to bypass every government regulation of firearms. Remember that it is legal to make your own firearm, though it is illegal to sell it. But, if everyone could make one of their own, then why would anyone need to buy one?

The Obama administration almost immediately shut him down and the Gottlieb team swung into action. Now, almost five years later. once again, SAF has scored a major victory for you, and me, and every gun owner, and it’s a victory that strikes at the very heart of the anti-gunners. This decision has several parts and should inspire every one of us.

PART ONE: It is now legal for Cody Wilson to distribute the software necessary to manufacture firearms and firearm components without restriction, after July 27th this year. The ruling allows the data that he has for every gun up to 50 caliber to be downloaded. This means that anyone with the necessary printer can now manufacture their own gun parts.

PART TWO: The programs that Cody has developed are open-source. This means that anyone with the programming skills can review them, revise them and modify them. What that means for you is that if you want to design your own gun, you can. Or if you want to  make a non-serialized part that would normally be registered, you can.

PART THREE: The Government formally defined the AR-15 and similar semi-automatic guns, as “inherently non-military”. How many times have you heard the term “weapons of war” used by the anti-gunners to describe everything from the AR-15 to pump-action shotguns. Now, the US Government has stated formally that this is not the case. The settlement states that “.. the government expressly acknowledges that non-automatic firearms up to 50 caliber – including modern semi-auto sporting rifles such as the popular AR-15 and similar – are not inherently military”. This may be the most important part of the decision.

Listeners, this is only the first step. 3-D printing to the standards necessary for making safe-to-use gun parts is not simple. No doubt anti-gun States will begin their own legislation against this. Anti-gun countries already do – for example, in Australia, possessing such a computer file can land you 14 years in prison.

The war isn’t over, but a major battle has been won.

Rob-  The gun isn’t the barrel. “The gun” is the serialized receiver.

Commercial items are regulated by the Department of Commerce, rather than treated as a military arm and regulated by the Department of State and the International Traffic in Arms Regulations. By saying that an AR is regulated by Commerce, it means it isn’t a “weapon of war”. That makes sense, since no army would ever field a firearm of that type.

John – The Dept of State and Dept of Commerce are issuing regulations that will transfer most civilian arms to Commerce instead of State for export purposes.


Rob- This did not go to trial. This was a pre-trial settlement.

Jenna- I wonder if the people behind the scenes are panicking now that the Gov’t has gone on record saying that AR’s etc are not “weapons of war.”  

John – Ghost guns are still a bugaboo in California.





Listeners, we have been hearing the national debate about whether school teachers should be allowed to carry firearms in order to protect their charges from murderous atrocities such as those at Sandyhook and Parkland.

Now, Virginia has joined the ranks of those supporting active protection of schoolchildren.

The Lee County school board just voted to allow its teachers to carry concealed firearms at work. This will start with the new school session in the fall.

The vote was unanimously in favor, although some individuals had doubts. However, many of the county’s teachers have already volunteered for this role.

Lee County Superintendent Brian Austin says that there will be a limited number of armed teachers in the 11 schools, and their names will not be disclosed. There will be a strict screening and training process. Th school district will pay for the training, and the firearms.

Rob- I publish a map of the states that allow armed schools and those that have programs in place. Time to update that map.

John – Lee County





Listeners, once again, American ingenuity has been flexed to the benefit of the US legal gun owner.

Inventor Kirk Kjellberg designed a defensive handgun to fire two rounds of 380-auto and then shaped it like a cell-phone so that it could be carried discreetly. Now the gun is shipping to dealers.

He told reporters that he was inspired to create the gun – called “Ideal Conceal” – when a 7 year old spotted his more traditional carry gun and told his mom, resulting in him getting a whole lot more attention than he was comfortable with. So, he designed a gun that allowed people to carry without having to “..engage other people about why they are carrying.”

The gun has its own holster – which looks like a cell-phone carrier, and part of it swings out to form a grip.

Listeners.. this is an interesting solution, just don’t mistake it for your actual cell-phone, or vice-versa….

Rob- I like this, and dislike it. I don’t want to get shot when I make a call.


John – It reminds me of the Lifecard .22 LR that is like a thick credit card. It is made here in Asheville.

Jenna- Furtive movement

Rob- caliber wars.





Listeners – Here at PSP we sometimes can only laugh at the ineptitude and dishonesty of those running to govern us under the banner of the Democrat Party.

Congressional Candidate Tedra Cobb, of New York’s 21st District, admitted to a group of supporters that she supports banning so-called “assault weapons” but cannot say so because advocating gun control would cost her the election.

In a video recorded on a cell-phone, Cobb said that “Moms Demand Action” (aka the Bloomberg Redshirts) had warned her not to admit her support of firearms bans during her campaign. She was advised by Tricea Pleau of Moms Demand Action, quote, “Do not say that you want an assault weapons ban, because you will not win.”

Listeners, this is the level of morality of the gun-grabbers – they will lie to your face to promote their agenda, and are being formally advised to do so. Remember. They *are* coming for your guns.






Listeners – you’ll remember the outcry when it was discovered that a murderer who acquired his firearms after passing a NICS check, would have failed the background check if the NICS database had been more complete. Well, now the FBI is taking concrete steps to bolster the completeness of that database and help prevent such tragedies.

More than four-hundred-million records of incident and arrest reports, probation, parole and other relevant information will be made available to the NICS background checkers. These are all contained in a database called “N-DEx”.

N-DEx – the National Data Exchange – allows NICS checkers to see details of an arrest, rather than simply that a person was arrested. This means that they can make more complete decisions. Stephen Morris, who has headed the FBI’s Background Check Division, said that the process will take about two years and should have been done a long time ago. Frank Campbell, a DOJ lawyer who helped set up NICS in the 1990s, agreed. In 2016, the FBI issued over 4,000 requests to take back guns from people who passed NICS incorrectly.

Listeners, let’s not bemoan the delay in incorporating these records. let’s be happy that it is happening. We legal gun owners don’t need guns getting into the wrong hands.

Jenna:  I am all for better decisions being made on more complete information, but how subjective are these decisions?

Rob- Why should a database include non exclusionary infractions?





Jenna- Gun Quote:

“You do not examine legislation in the light of the benefits it will convey if properly administered, but in the light of the wrongs it would do and the harms it would cause if improperly administered.” – President Lyndon Baines Johnson

Rob- Hang on everybody, we’ll be back with our guest (Willes Lee).


3- Interview 1 Willes, Lee- NRA board.

Interview 1 Willes Lee

Overland Park, KS, convention of Republican Assemblies & National Right to life.

Then Minnesota, Delaware,

then Austin for the RNC

NRACarryGuard, September, in Richmond, VA


Freedom Alliance cruise

4- Interview 2 Sean Maloney BFA, the city of Columbus, OH loses a challenge to their new bump stock regulation due to state preemption laws. Columbus isn’t a country of its own despite what the city council thinks.

Cincinnati, take note.


Bloomberg wants teachers disarmed. MDA and Everytown to Madison HS, the site of an earlier shooting.

Sean, what do you have coming up next.

5- DGUs  (at beginning) These discussions are NOT legal advice. Some of us are trainers, but this is not formal training and YOU NEED formal training. The Defensive Gun Use segment is intended as information, NOT as training. As always the opinions of the hosts are only their own opinions and not those of any sponsors or other affiliations.

John- Jefferson County, Alabama

Restraining orders are merely paper.  Door and windows can be broken for entry.  When the estranged husband of a women was at home on recent morning, broke into her home, he had rape on his mind.

As he tried to sexually assault her, she was armed with a handgun.  She shot him in the leg which caused him to flee.

The suspect was stopped by deputies and taken to the hospital with non-life-threatening injuries.

He was arrested and charged with attempted rape and second-degree domestic violence.


Rob- 500 sexual assaults a day are stopped with a firearm.

Gary- Dallas, Texas

A carjacker in Texas messed with the wrong mama bear.

Michelle Booker-Hicks stopped at a gas station in Dallas.  When a man climbed into the driver’s seat of her SUV and tried to drive away, she jumped into the back seat.  You see, her 2 and 4 -year-old children were in the back seat.

She ordered the man to stop the car.  He refused. She tried to put the car in park but the suspect still refused to stop.  Booker reached for her gun.

The gun was in the glove compartment.  She fired at him from the side causing serious injuries and the car to go off the road.

The suspect was hospitalized and charged with two counts of unlawful restraint and unauthorized use of a motor vehicle.


Rob- Mom didn’t have her CCW permit.


Rob- This is why Texas needs constitutional carry. Rachel Malone, call your office.

Jenna North Naples, Florida

Tom, no last name, had just sat down outside at Jack’s Bait Shop, which is also a restaurant and bar.  He just wanted a beer. At the same time he was sitting down, a black Lincoln with blacked out windows pulls up and does a “hell of a burnout.”

The driver then drove back to the front of the building, stopped and slowly rolled down his windows.  He then pointed what looked like a gun.

Tome ducked behind a cement pillar and pulled his pistol and showed it to the driver.

The driver took off from the bait shop really quickly.

The driver was a regular at Jack’s and was kicked out earlier in the day for causing problems.  Deputies went to his home and he resisted arrest by hitting and kicking the deputies. The deputies did not find a gun in his car but the arrest report states that other people also saw the gun.



Rob- Little Rock, Arkansas

Officers were called to a Little Rock apartment complex shortly before 6:35 PM recently.

Edricus Drains, pulled up to his apartment and spotted three people lingering nearby.  He put his firearm in his pocket.

As he got out of his truck, one of the people assaulted him and reached into his pockets.  The assailant grabbed the gun, at which point a fight ensued over the gun.

Drains fired three times at the assailant then four more times when the man refused to let go of the weapon.

Drain’s then ran to the front office of the complex and handed his gun to the security officer and told him to call police.

Officers found the suspect lying on the ground in a pool of blood.  He had suffered gunshot wounds to his abdomen. They applied a chest seal to one wound that was bleeding heavily and found another wound in the upper left thigh.

He was in critical but stable condition when he went into surgery.

Witnesses heard the disturbance and told police that they saw the two men fighting.  The pair was grabbing each other before “Drains pulled out a ‘grayish’ weapon and shot [the assailant] as many as four times.”

The other two men suspected in participating in the incident were interviewed and no one was arrested.


Jenna- Impressed with the amount of shots that were fired.


We post each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com  Please take a minute and share them with a friend.


6- E-mail, blog notes, and show close

Listener e-mail discussion

Gary: Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?


Yes, Armed Citizens Defend Themselves and Others..despite what Giffords and NPR say

My articles are up at Clash Daily, at Ammoland and at my blog, slow facts dot wordpress dot com.  John, tell us what’s new at your blog no lawyers only guns and money.

As you would expect, I had a number of posts up about the nomination of Judge Brett Kavanaugh to be on the Supreme Court. I think Kavanaugh was the safe choice though not my first choice. That said, I think he’ll be OK for the Second Amendment and we may finally see the lower courts get the comeuppance that they so richly deserve on gun rights. He certainly has irritated all the gun prohibitionists groups and delighted the gun rights groups.

That and more is at only guns and money dot blogspot dot com.

Facebook listeners group

Gary: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast.  I’d like to thank (Willes Lee and Sean Maloney) for joining us today.  So for Amy, Tracy, Belle, Dana, Douglas, Gary, John, Rachel, Susan, Grant and Rob and paul,

( stop talking now)

Rob: Until the next time…

Gary: stay safe,

Jenna: be aware,

John: and we’ll see you down the road.