Episode 408 – Simulcast with Eye on the Target Radio


Full Episode Download: http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/408.mp3

1- Hour 1

2- Hour 2

3- Hour 3


1- Introduction

Paul: Welcome to the polite society podcast powered by the Firearms Policy Coalition AND Eye on the Target Radio recorded on Monday, May the 1st 2017, I’m Paul Lathrop

Rob: I’m Rob Morse and on tonight’s show we will talk with Gail Pepin about infiltrating a Moms Demand Action event in Atlanta.

John: I’m John Richardson, and we’ll talk about the just wrapped up NRA Annual Meeting

Rachel: I’m Rachel Malone, and we’ll also talk about the A Girl and a Gun training in Burnet, Texas.

Gary: I’m Gary Daugherty and in one of our DGU’s we talk about a 7-11 that exercised their second amendment rights .. so climb aboard

Rachel: strap in

Rob : and hang on!

Paul:  episode 408 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.

Paul: But wait.  This episode is a little different.  We’re here with Rob and Amanda of the Eye on the Target radio program and we’re broadcasting live on their show as we record.

Amanda: Hi, Paul – Rachel, great to “see” you again.   We will be talking about Conference, convention – or annual meeting as they call it  and the movies.

Rob Campbell, Hi to the entire Polite society co-hosts and their audience and ours.

We are so glad to be doing a simulcast – if you will.   Or a Simul-Podcast…  Stay tuned for 3 hours of fun

Show intro music.


Personal news from each participant (when you are done with your segment please ask the next person what has been up with them)


Rob Morse- Annual meeting.  Usual suspects and some unusual.  Met some Breitbart executives who were talking with AWR hawkins.  I also got to talk with Marcus Weldon, but we never the COO and CTO of breitbart news.  Talked to the president of Springfield and the staff at Rock River.


John – The NRA Annual Meeting was great. I learned a ton at the Law Seminar, met a lot of people we’ve had on the podcast for the first time in person, and got to hang with some really cool people. The NRA was really promoting their Carry-Guard program after disinviting USCCA and 2nd Call Defense. Against that backdrop, I renewed my membership in Armed Citizens Legal Defense Fund. I wanted to be a person and not a number. Gila and Marty Hayes see me and know me by name. The other controversy going on involved Springfield Armory and Rock River Arms who may have thrown small Illinois dealers under the bus by going neutral on the bill that adds state regulation on top of ATF regulation. Finally, while it didn’t feel like it, the attendance numbers put Atlanta in 2nd position behind Houston in terms of attendees with approximately 81,000.



  • Girl & A Gun conference – taught with David
  • New holster



Paul/Susan New shooters day yesterday. Breaking in new AR


Rob Campbell   Amanda and I were also at the NRA Annual Meeting,  and I looked at all the guns,  Have to say not much new.   But there was one.  Gilboa Snake – by Gilboa USA.com and its a twin barreled AR.  

Amanda  I was at NRA too.  But have to say, that while Rob is looking at guns, and rifling and all that stuff,  I was talking to people.


Promo about upcoming training classes here.


Gary – Patches – I’ll have them up on the Facebook page. $10 for 1, $18 for 2. PayPal to john@ad7.8f3.myftpupload.com


Promo about upcoming training classes here.

(May 20-21) MAG-20. Florence, TX

(May 21 and June 10) Ohio Personal Protection and Concealed Carry – Targething.com

(June 9-11 2017). MAG-30. Florence, TX

(June 24, 25th 2017).  Beyond Concealed Carry Enhanced.  9am -5pm both days. Richmond, IL

(July 8, 2017) Defensive Rifle Skills for the Armed Citizen https://squareup.com/store/concealedcarryassociates

(August 10-13, 2017). MAG-40. Sioux Falls, SD

(August 26 & 27, 2017). Beyond Concealed Carry Enhanced. Sioux Falls, SD

(Saturday, February 3, 2018) Law of Self Defense LEVEL 1 Class: South Dakota

(Saturday, February 4, 2018) Law of Self Defense LEVEL 2 Class: South Dakota


Amanda –  Rachel,  let’s share with folks what we were all doing in Texas a week or two ago.  The annual  AGAG conference.  Rachel – we were in your home state.  This was my first year doing it.   Was really happy to be joining 57 other noteworthy instructors including yourself.  But I have to say that I was not prepared for the weather swing –

Rob Campbell – Yeah,  that weather was 90 the first day,  50 the second day 70 the third.  Kinda like Papa bear, Mama bear and baby bear.   But it was great and we are coming back – if they invite us – for next year.   Rachel – how and when did you get involved in this?   And tell us what you taught and your experiences with the 390 gals that were on the Ranch for the 3 days.


And around in a conversation that tosses from person to person till 7:30 commercial break…  if anyone wants in, toss their name here.  

Amanda – Live read commercial for Urban Moxy.



Amanda- Let us tell you about our crazy month of April.   We were in a Movie filmed in Cleveland-

Rob Campbell – telling them about being extras in the movie. (then toss it to someone to start

Open conversation about guns used in movies)


the realities and the falsehoods.  The truth about guns in the movies- bling rules


Paul – I want to talk about the Amazon original Bosch. GREAT gun handling and realistic attitudes about guns.



NRA convention-  sights, sightings and people.    Who went, who’s sorry they missed it.  Which ones have you all attended and what was the most memorable part.


Rob Campbell- these events have changed over the years.  We have been to it for years.  Think Dallas may be my first one, remember Phoenix specifically and they had many more off campus events.   Phoenix set up a tour of Dillon Precision.   Tell about it a bit.

Amanda –  As I said – these, for me are about the people.  This year hit a milestone – had my picture taken with Wayne LaPierre,  and again with lt col. And US House of representatives Allen West.  Even if I did have bad hair – but that’s another story.


Rob Morse- Annual meeting.

Gabby Franco, R Lee Earmy, Jessie Duff, Bob Lathum, Sheriff Clarke, Alan West


Talked to the president of Springfield and the staff at Rock River.  The other controversy going on involved Springfield Armory and Rock River Arms who may have thrown small Illinois dealers under the bus by going neutral on the bill that adds state regulation on top of ATF regulation.


Finally, while it didn’t feel like it, the attendance numbers put Atlanta in 2nd position behind Houston in terms of attendees with approximately 81,000.


8:00.01 or anytime soon after  (our news kicks directly at the hour and is available)



2- News 1


Paul – Black college student victim of confusing gun laws

Gun proponents in Illinois say the case of a recent Black college student who was arrested in Chicago is the reason why there needs to be a national gun law. Jamaal Jackson was arrested last month in the Grand Crossing community after he and the mother of his child got involved in a loud verbal argument and police were called. When police entered the private residence they searched Jackson and found a gun, which he legally bought and can have in Alabama. But because he took the gun from his vehicle and into a private home earlier that day, he needs a Firearm Owner’s Identification Card from Illinois to remove it from the vehicle, according to Illinois law. But he is ineligible to get a FOID card because he is not an Illinois resident, which puts citizens from another state in a trick bag when they visit Illinois and want to exercise their 2nd Amendment rights. Jackson, who was born and raised in Chicago, lives in Selma, Alabama where he is a junior business administration major at Selma University. He has been charged with a Class 4 felony of aggravated unlawful use of a weapon, something his father fears can ruin his life.

Rob- Police advise us to bring our guns indoors.

Rachel- It should be (and is) against the law to cause harm to another.

Rob- the goal is to make honest gun owners into criminals, not to stop criminals from getting guns.


Rob- The real goal of gun control

The purpose of gun control in Nazi Germany was to subdue the populace.  Unarmed civilians are of little concern to heavily armed government police and military forces.  A similar gun grab is being perpetrated in present day Venezuela.  


Of course, Interior Minister Nestor Reverol gave good justification for the confiscation.  He stated, “We are going to bring disarmament and peace.”  Who could argue with that?  The country’s murder rate was 73 per 100,000 before the ban.  The murder rate in the US is somewhere around 5 per 100,000.  That includes Chicago!  However, after the guns were taken from the people of Venezuela, the murder rate skyrocketed to nearly 92 per 100,000.


President Nicolas Maduro is not content, though.  He knows the country with the richest oil reserves on the planet is failing.  He knows the citizens are fed up with the deplorable living conditions.  So, what would any self-respecting totalitarian do next?  Arm his supporters, of course!  Serfs armed with torches and pitchforks are of little concern to well-armed militia.


This news comes on the anniversary of the April 1775 Battles of Lexington and Concord.  If the British Crown had been successful in their gun confiscation, American colonists would not have had the means to separate from Britain.  There would have been no “shot hear around the world.”  


If you believe gun control advocates are truly concerned about safety, just watch what happens in Venezuela.  An unarmed society is an impolite society.



Rob- Rachel, you talk about this in appleseed, don’t you.

Rob Campbell-

Amanda- the zoo


Rachel- Changes in the Health administration

The previous administration appointed Vivek Murthy as the Surgeon General with the backing of the Senate in 2014. Last week, both sides of the divided Nation remember Murthy’s headlining label, “Gun Violence is a health threat to the American people” when Murthy was asked to step aside. Social media didn’t waste time announcing Murthy would not be finishing the remaining quarter of the appointed term. One smooth transition in a presidential term deserves another. It is assumed President Trump is continuing to quickly replace Obama appointees with fresh blood, leaving vacancies until filled. Rear Admiral Sylvia Trent-Adams, a nurse officer, will serve as acting surgeon general and leader of the U.S. Public Health Service Commissioned Corps. The Nation awaits the Senate’s confirmation for the replacement which will be nominated by the Trump administration.







Rob- This is a rule, not an exception.


Gary- California, again

A recent article in Forbes magazine points to another instance of discriminatory rulings in modern American jurisprudence.  Contributing columnist George Leef’s article centers around the state’s “symbolic” law regarding “gun free school zones.”  Mr. Leef is correct to point out that such laws do “nothing to stop a determined killer.”  


The original legislation allowed retired law enforcement and concealed permit holders to carry on campus.  However, in 2015 the anti-gunners were able to pass a measure eliminating the exception for permit holders.  Retired law enforcement individuals, including game wardens, are still allowed to carry in schools.


Enter Dr. Ulises Garcia.  He obtained his concealed weapons permit subsequent to receiving threats from former patients.  Thus, Dr. Garcia has been deprived of his rights and placing himself at risk while attending school events with his children.


He joined with other plaintiffs in a suit seeking relief.  The theory of the case was that this law violates the Fourth Amendment’s equal protection clause by treating two classes of citizens differently.  


In her ruling, District Judge Beverly O’Connell summarily dismissed this argument with what can only be described as reckless disregard of the law.  She stated, “The legislative history of the Act here does not indicate that the California Legislature was trying to prejudice civilian firearm owners when it retained the Retired Peace Officers Exemption absent evidence of explicit legislative intent…”  Do you believe Jim Crow laws exhibited “explicit legislative intent?”  


Perhaps this judge acted in such a cavalier manner because she knew the Ninth Circuit would see it her way. https://www.forbes.com/sites/georgeleef/2017/04/24/second-amendment-or-second-class-citizens/#17aa86971ef1


Paul- I read recently that President trump is thinking of breaking up the 9th circuit. I wonder if this will make it to the Supremes before that happens

Rob- We don’t have lobbyists who make large political contributions.  Law enforcement and corrections officers do.




Constitutional Carry in Texas – update

The saga continues, with Texas liberty activists pushing for constitutional carry. We believe, anyone who owns a handgun should be able to carry it. Apparently that does not please the King – Chairman Phil King, that is. Let’s quickly review the episodes that have already played out this session: (1) 375 filed – if you own it, you carry it. (2) 1911 filed – if you’re eligible to apply for a license, you may carry without a license. Read more below:



The current version of 1911 is currently in Calendars committee and contains, among other problems, a section that could allow law enforcement to stop and ID someone merely for carrying a handgun. Meanwhile, 375, a solid bill, never has made it out of the Calendars Committee. The blame goes to Chairman Phil King.


Gun Quotes- Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves. William Pitt (the Younger)


Hang on everybody, we’ll be back with our guest (Gail Pepin).



3- Interview 1  Gail Pepin ( 9:05)

Mom’s demand t-shirts


5- DGUs  (at beginning) These discussions are NOT legal advice. Some of us are trainers, but this is not formal training and YOU NEED formal training. The Defensive Gun Use segment is intended as information, NOT as training. As always the opinions of the hosts are only their own opinions and not those of any sponsors or other affiliations.


We post each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com  Please take a minute and share them with a friend.


Greenville Domestic Abuser gets shot in leg

On a recent Friday, a Greenville, North Carolina woman was in an argument with her ex-boyfriend.  The fight got physical and was carried into a neighbor’s yard.  The neighbor attempted to intervene and the ex-boyfriend, Tyree Barksdale, turned his anger on him.  The neighbor retrieved a gun and shot Barksdale in the leg.  Police responded to a shots fired 911 call.  Barksdale was treated to non-life-threatening injuries while the neighbor and ex-girlfriend were nursing their own minor injuries.

While all ended “well” in this incident, it is not a wise thing to intervene in a domestic fight.  While you are trying to break up the fight, it can quickly go from one on one to two on one and you are the one.  


Rob – I had a really bad night

A Florida man told a Marion County Florida Sheriff’s Deputy “I had a really bad night last night. I really don’t remember going to her house.”  Anthony Tally wanted to apologize to the woman whose door he had kicked in on the previous night.


The previous night the homeowner was awoken by loud banging coming from outside her home.  When she turned on the porch light, she saw a man banging on her back door with his fists and screaming “I’m going to get you…”  The homeowner retreated out the front door and fled to a neighbor’s house as Tally broke through her back door.  Her neighbor grabbed his gun and went to her home.  He witnessed Tally near the back porch.  He then crashed through the wooden gate.  The neighbor fired a shot in the air like any untrained gun owner is wont to do.


The next day, another woman saw two men in the neighborhood and told them of the breakin.  She noticed one of the men, Tally, had scratches on his arms.  He confessed and vowed to apologize to the victim.  She then went to the victim’s home to warn her.


The homeowner’s son was also there and armed.  As Tally approached the home, he was detained at gunpoint by the son and then secured by neighbors until the deputies arrived.  

Paul – We are not the police!

Rachel- My opinion: a poorly-trained carrier is most likely to fire a warning shot in the air.

Rob- She retreated when she had the opportunity.  Good for her.


Amanda – i don’t remember, but I confess???


Rachel 7-11 Store Clerk defends store

A 35 year old 7-11 store clerk decided it was time for a smoke break at 3:50 AM.  Suddenly, an armed man approached and tried to rob her.  But this clerk was also carrying.  She pulled her firearm and shot the man in the chest, arm and thigh.  During the gun battle, she was also wounded in the leg.  The robbery thug was pronounced dead at the hospital and the clerk was treated for her wounds.  It was not known whether the clerk had a permission slip to conceal carry.  Missouri is a constitutional carry state.


Rob- Leg shots are often fatal.  They are not “safe”.


Gary- Bakersfield Doctor defends himself

Even in California, you have a right to self-defense.  Last week a Bakersfield doctor was assaulted by a man who was not a patient.  He claimed he was there to inquire about becoming a patient when he attached the doctor.  During the assault, the deceased made comments about money.  Dr Edwin Zong was not carrying but had a firearm in a desk drawer. The doctor retrieved his legally registered gun from the drawer and shot his assailant 3 times in the upper torso.  The suspect fled but was found in a nearby parking lot.


The doctor was also licensed to carry but was not.  The clinic does issue medical marijuana prescriptions which may have prompted the attempted robbery.  Officials ruled that this was self-defense and the doctor will not be charged.


Paul – POGO

Amanda – yes

Another 45 seconds or so…

BREAK? Go to listener feedback out of break  

Will kick it to?


Huntsville homeowner kills burglar

A Huntsville Texas homeowner arrived at home earlier this month just before 11 PM when he noticed his back door kicked in.  He went back to his car and got his handgun.  When he returned to his house, he confronted two men.  He fired at both men and struck both.  One died at the house and the other fled and showed up later at a local hospital. This was ruled self-defense by the local police.


While removing your firearm from its holster while driving is an acceptable thing to do, Pants On Gun On means rearming when you reach your destination when permissible.  Was he going to leave his firearm in his car overnight?  Shouldn’t the first thing be a call to law enforcement?  Is it wise to enter a building when you suspect there could be thugs possibly inside?


What is that protection order for?

It seemed that a Oklahoma woman had enough after a man repeatedly ignored a protection order.  Of course a protection order prohibits any contact unless authorized by the court.


A few day after the order was granted, Larry Grammer contacted the woman several times including threatening to come after her and her life if she didn’t provide the title to her car which Grammer had possession.  The woman filed a complaint and Grammer denied calling the woman.  Recently he was at the woman’s home again.  Law enforcement was called and then dispatch broadcast “the woman had a rifle and was standing on the porch, yelling for Larry to leave the house.”  Police responded with light and sirens.  Grammer backed out of the drive and drove away at a high rate of speed.


Grammer was pulled over and denied that he had been at her house.  She said he had come demanding her debit card which was verified by two witnesses.  Grammer was arrested and hauled off to the county jail.


Once again, protection orders do not protect those who seek them.  You need to take defense and your loved ones into your own control.  That may include owning and possibly using a firearm.  In this case, the trigger did not have to be pulled.



6- E-mail, blog notes, and show close


Listener e-mail discussion

Paul- Text message #1


Afternoon PS Crew

My question is if you’re going buy a used gun. How do you know if you’re not buying someone else’s headache?





Rob- Some used gun shops offer a lifetime guarantee.  Other than that, you don’t know.

Rachel- get a reputable brand that holds up over time (and has resale value). Also, I try to talk with them and figure out why they’re selling it.

Paul- Major manufacturers will warranty their stuff

Rob Campbell


Rob – Text message #2


Thanks for mentioning my footwear question. Any publications from female instructors who could help convey the importance of footwear to my girlfriend? -Clayton


Rachel- Yes, I’d be happy to let her know how important and wonderful flip-flops are.




Rachel -Email #1


Carl wrote in about a Pittsburgh story that concerned him.



I sincerely hope there’s more to this story.  The way it is written, it sounds as if the police just shoot you if you are carrying a shotgun.  




This is terrible news reporting.





This is the full text of the article in question (Gary can you please read this?)


PITTSBURGH (KDKA) — A man has been hospitalized following an officer-involved shooting in East Liberty.

According to police, it happened around 1:30 a.m. Saturday.

Officers were called to the area of the 700 block of Mellon Street for a report of a male wearing a red hooded sweatshirt who was armed with a shotgun.

Upon arrival, responding officers saw a male matching that description walking along the 600 block of North Highland Avenue.

An officer shot the man in his left side. The man, believed to be in his 20s, was transported to UPMC Presbyterian. He was alert and conscious.

The shotgun was recovered at the scene.

No further information was released.



Paul – I agree. PA is an open carry state. I think that there has to be more to the story


Paul: Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?


Rob- Infringing the right to bear arms series, When we consider the many layers of government, it is easy to see that they have a very difficult time leaving any aspect of our lives unregulated.  Politicians rationalize their regulation of self-defense by wrapping their restrictions in the cloak of public safety.  In fact, that cloak has often been the white sheet of racism directed against minorities and the poor.



Clash Daily.  Ammoland.  Slowfacts. That is at slow facts dot wordpress dot com.  That and more is at only guns and money dot blogspot dot com.



We would like to thank Charlie Foxtrot for writing up show notes for us. Even though you don’t hear him on the air he is certainly part of what you do hear. Look at his blog at not one more gun law dot blogspot dot com


Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast.  I’d like to thank (Guests) for joining us today.  So for Charlie Foxtrot,  Jae, Dana, Gary, John, Rachel, Susan, Craig, and Rob,

(Paul, stop talking now)


Rob: Until the next time…

Gary: stay safe,

Rachel: be aware,

Amanda?: and we’ll see you down the road.


(after show close) How could we have made this episode better?


(DO NOT READ)Look at the shooters club by Bob Mayne and Ben Branam.  For $75.00 a year, $6.25 a month, you get 24/7 access to some fantastic training and audio podcasts that you can’t get anywhere else.  Subscribing from the link in our show notes helps Bob and Ben as well as helps us here at the Polite Society Podcast.


(DO NOT READ)Join your local civil rights group like the New Jersey Second Amendment Society, Arizona Citizens Defense League, Gun Owners of California, Commonwealth Second Amendment,  Connecticut Citizens Defense League, Florida Carry, Georgia Carry, Georgia Gun Owners, Grass Roots North Carolina, Illinois Carry, Maryland Shall Issue,  Michigan Gun Owners , Michigan Open Carry, and  Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners.


There are Minnesota Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance,  Nebraska Firearms Owners Association,   Citizens for a Safer New Jersey, New York State Rifle & Pistol Association,  Palmetto Concealed Carry, Open Carry Texas, Texas Firearms Freedom, Texas State Rifle Association. Tennessee Firearms Association, Virginia Citizens Defense League, Virginia Open Carry,  West Virginia Citizens Defense League, wisconsingunowners.org, and Wyoming Gun Owners.


For our Canadian listeners, and their supporters, join the Canadian Shooting Sports Association and the Canadian National Firearms Association.  If YOUR state or local organization isn’t read each episode, then send us an email and we’ll add them!


(DO NOT READ)The Polite Society download app is out on Amazon for Android and the I-phone app is in I-tunes and it is called Podcast Box.  They are located by our old name, Politics and guns.  Hot links are in our show notes.