Episode 407 – Shelley Hill and Kevin Davis

Full Episode Download: http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/407.mp3

1- Open and Personal News Segment

2- News Segment 

3- Interview Segment 1: Shelley Hill

4- Interview Segment 2: Kevin Davis

5- DGU Segment:

6- Email and Show Close:


1- Introduction

Paul: Welcome to the polite society podcast sponsored by the Firearms Policy Coalition recorded on Thursday, the 20th of April, I’m Paul Lathrop

Rob: I’m Rob Morse and on tonight’s show we talk with Kevin Davis about when Police officers should use force, and when you should.

John: I’m John Richardson, and we’ll talk about bad things happening to good people.

Gary: I’m Gary Daugherty and in one of our DGU’s we talk about two criminals that failed in the victim selection process by breaking into a retired Marine’s home …so climb aboard

Rob: strap in

John : and hang on!

Paul:  episode 407 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.

Show intro music.


Personal news from each participant (when you are done with your segment please ask the next person what has been up with them)


Rob, Live fire at the range, dry fired a couple times at home.  I finished Dustin Solomon’s book, “Building Shooters”.  I recommend it.  It changed how I train and how I teach.   I booked a hotel room for a beginning firearms class I’m taking.  I have to buy ammo.  I met my first legal texas 30.06 sign.  I recorded a few episodes of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  I got my car ready for a trip.. And that is firearms related because.. NRAAM.


John – Like Rob, we are getting ready to leave for Atlanta for the NRA Annual Meeting. We’ve been checking out the MARTA rail system which, by the way, allows concealed carry on its trains. I’ve been pocket carrying my Ruger LCP II a lot and it is really convenient. I also just bought a shoulder holster from Ken Null which I hope to use with a revolver. I will have to practice with it a good deal before I decide to carry with it. That’s about it for me.




Paul/Susan: New AR – patreon

John – Patches – I’ll have them up on the Facebook page. $10 for 1, $18 for 2.

Promo about upcoming training classes here.

(June 9-11 2017). MAG-30. Georgetown, TX

(June 24, 25th 2017).  Beyond Concealed Carry Enhanced.  9am -5pm both days. Richmond, IL

(July 8, 2017) Defensive Rifle Skills for the Armed Citizen https://squareup.com/store/concealedcarryassociates

(August 10-13, 2017). MAG-40. Sioux Falls, SD

(August 26 & 27, 2017). Beyond Concealed Carry Enhanced. Sioux Falls, SD

(Saturday, February 3, 2018) Law of Self Defense LEVEL 1 Class: South Dakota

(Saturday, February 4, 2018) Law of Self Defense LEVEL 2 Class: South Dakota



2- News 1


Bad Things Happen No Matter Where You Are

The world endured a harsh wake-up call this last week to the fact that evil things still happen despite the daily hope that nothing bad will happen as one carries out normal errands like visiting family and grocery shopping. According to his uploaded facebook video, Steve Stephens manipulated his tool to murder 74-year-old Robert Godwin. Excusing himself from personal responsibility, he blamed it on his failed courting relationship with Joy Lane. Instead of sympathy for his pain from his gambling debt and other problems, the nation banded together to bring this killer to justice by actively helping the police with their manhunt. The suspect ended his own life after being cornered by the police chase, leaving the nation to ask, ‘what else could go wrong?’




The question was semi-answered in a state known for its numerous laws limiting citizens, but not convicted criminals from packing illegal weapons and murdering on a whim. Conflicting motives of the once outgoing down to earth and health advocate security guard, Kori Ali “Black Jesus” Muhammad are unclear. He encouraged followers with hashtags such as “#LetBlackPeopleGo” and “black warriors” need to “mount up” against the “white devils”, but he shouted “Allahu Akbar” or “God is great” in Arabic when police tackled the suspect to the ground ending in his arrest. His random shooting spree had been at 4 locations with 3 Caucasian fatalities ranging from 34 -58. Whether it was his religious beliefs, gang affiliations, or hate crimes, he is claiming insanity and the possibility that the justice system is conspiring against him. The nation is torn about guns and personal safety once again.





Paul – POGO if you can

John – I despise the term “hate crime” – aren’t all crimes based upon a measure of hate? Violence is violence – does the reason really matter?


Rob- John, all crimes are not hate crimes.  Some people didn’t get a permit to open a lemonade stand.  There is evil in the world.  Laws won’t stop these murderers.  You will.  Thank you for taking care of the people you love.


Peruta to be heard by the Supremes?

An infamous case from the infamous Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals appears to be first in line to find out what newly confirmed Justice Gorsuch is all about.  Justice Gorsuch is scheduled to participate in a hearing as to whether the Peruta v. County of San Diego case will be heard by the nation’s highest court.  


The Peruta case revolves around California’s “good cause” requirement for law abiding citizens to be issued a carry permit.  This case was originally found in Mr. Peruta’s favor by a three judge panel of the Circuit.  The infamous Kamala Harris, then California Attorney General, pushed to have the case heard en banc.  In June 2016 the court reversed the panel’s ruling, thus supporting the “good cause” requirement and ignoring the precedent set in the Heller case.


The hearing of this case by a Supreme Court that actually follows the Constitution should provide an excellent starting point for a new era of rights restoration.  Do you think the District and Circuit courts will listen?


John- This week they  refused to hear a case out of New Jersey – Stephens v Jerejian. That case, however, was a pro se or serving as his own attorney. Those kind of cases are dangerous in that the pro se plaintiff doesn’t really know the law and a bad case can then end up as a precedent.




Rob- The SCOTUS rules on how court decisions were made, not on the decision.  They would remand the case back to the lower court and describe the proper standards of review.


Paul- I read a story today that there are rumors flying about another resignation in SCOTUS

John- That would be Charles Grassley of Iowa. He is chairman of the Senate Judiciary Comm.

John- Justice Kennedy is most senior followed by Clarence Thomas.


Show me how gun free zones help people

Lawmakers in Missouri are busy fighting the good fight.  Representative Jered Taylor has sponsored legislation that would eliminate many “gun-free zones” throughout the state.  The criminal hunting grounds include child care facilities, universities and churches.  Of course, a Kansas City representative, Jon Carpenter seemed shocked.  He asked, “Is this for show or is this for real?”  Kudos to Rep. Taylor for stating that he wants, “individuals to be able to choose…”  He realizes that signs do not stop criminals.  Another voice speaking the truth is always helpful.


Missouri Rep. Nick Schroer is sponsoring another bill that would hold those who post “gun-free” signs in their businesses liable for harm suffered by disarmed patrons.  As he so eloquently said, “These killers are not stopped by a sign on the front door.”  


Way to go Missouri!

Rob- I want to make the politicians show us the plastic signs stop crime.

John- Missouri is a strange state. Conservative state with liberal bookends.


College employees Volunteer to Carry

Approximately 500 public university employees in Tennessee are carrying concealed firearms on college campuses.  The current law only allows full-time employees to carry on campus.  The University of Tennessee police chief, Troy Lane, is concerned.  He is, “unaware of how or why adding part-time employees would make [the] campus safer.”  His concern is that they do not know the part-time people as well as the real co-workers.  Perhaps he is unaware that these people must be vetted through the permitting system in place for the State.  


These people who know better than the rest of us continue to fight any measure that would result in more people being able to defend themselves or others from violent attacks.  They grudgingly admit that they are unaware of any problems that have arisen from good people carrying firearms on the State’s campuses.  


Rob- Guest lecturers, police chiefs are appointed, not elected.

John- You mean like I used to be. I knew most of the business faculty.


Gun Quotes- An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it . Col Jeff Cooper

More: http://www.catb.org/esr/fortunes/rkba.html



Hang on everybody, we’ll be back with our guest (Name).



3- Interview 1


4 – Interview 2


Kevin Davis trains civilians and law enforcement on the use of force.  He wrote the book Citizen’s Guide to Armed Defense..and he recently spoke at the recent Rangemaster Tactical Conference.

Welcome Kevin.  His book is “Citizen’s Guide to Armed Defense”



Compare and contrast when police officers should use force vs when civilians should.

So, as a graduate question, help our listeners.  Suppose your adult daughter hears someone banging on her door in the middle of the night.  How should she answer it so she will be safe from an attacker, and from a policeman who is at the wrong house looking for a known criminal.

Kevin R. Davis blog. http://www.kevinrdavisblog.com


5- DGUs (at beginning) These discussions are NOT legal advice. Some of us are trainers, but this is not formal training and YOU NEED formal training. The Defensive Gun Use segment is intended as information, NOT as training. As always the opinions of the hosts are only their own opinions and not those of any sponsors or other affiliations.


Best Defense

Paul and Kristin Sadler retired to their bedroom one evening last month and their Doberman pinscher, G,  followed.  As they fell asleep, G ran out of the room barking.  They called him back thinking he was aroused by the neighborhood coyotes.  After 15 minutes, G was off again.  This time they heard a man saying “Whoa…whoa.”


A home invasion.  The Sadlers had prepared after watching an episode of “The Best Defense” on the Outdoor Channel.  They had felt safe in the country in rural Iowa but after watching the show, they started discussing their plans on what to happen if someone invaded their home.  


Plan A. Paul grabs his firearm, but that plan was thwarted when he left his gun in the kitchen.  Fortunately, Kristin Sadler had hers.


Plan B. Kristin called 911 and Paul went for his gun.  He snuck into the kitchen, located his gun in the dark and then flicked on the lights.


A “clean-cut young man” stood in the kitchen.  Paul pointed his gun at someone for the first time and asked what he was doing.  The man was lost, ran out of gas and clearly confused.  It took authorities 20 minutes to arrive during which time, Paul continued to hold up his gun and they talked.  He said he was a veteran of the recent wars.  They never found out if he was armed.


Not every DGU ends with the trigger being pulled.  Like we say you need formal training.  These DGUs are not formal training but they will give you some ideas for situational awareness.  What am I or are we going to do if…..  For preventing a home invasion, lock all ground floor doors and windows.  Have a plan.  Get firearm training for home defense.  Consider a safe room.  Be aware of a your surroundings.  Use these DGUs to consider what can happen and develop a plan in your head on how will you react.  Plan for alone and with your family.

(End of Story)



Rob- Having a plan kept this intruder alive.  The couple trained to recognize a threat.

Paul – Have you practiced holding at gunpoint? It is NOT easy.


Vets like guns

Two career criminals picked the wrong apartment to break into.  That apartment belonged to a Marine vet and his 29 year old son.  The two thugs were  dressed in black, one was holding a 2 foot pipe.  Brian Sant, the veteran was still up at 3 AM after working the late shift when the pair kicked in the door.  He began to fight with the two which woke up this son.  He stepped out of the bedroom and fired at both intruders.  Scorecard 1 dead and 1 in serious condition.

The room temperature thug, Danny Tupu had dozens of convictions ranging from misdemeanors to felonies and was wanted on a warrant for his arrest.  The police immediately ruled the shooting self-defense but later changed their statement saying that the case had been turned over to homicide investigators.  


Sant commented “You got veterans living around in these apartments.  You don’t know who has got a gun.”  He stated that he did not know the men or why they picked his apartment to invade. After the last eight years of brilliant salesmanship by Mr. Obama, I think the same could be said of any home.  With Utah lowering the age to 18, even outside the home, you don’t know who will be armed.  (end of story)


Uber Crime Encouragement Zones

Uber has a policy prohibiting drivers and riders from carrying firearms.  A 44 year old driver is lucky he ignored that policy.  Just after dropping off a passenger in the early morning hours, two men jumped in his car and one point a gun at him and told him to drive.  He drove to a location on Bienville in New Orleans where he was ordered out of the car.  He got out but fought back and fired on the two, wounding one.  The pair left his car and fled the area.  

Nine days later, NOPD arrested one suspect in the incident who had gotten a private ride to the hospital where he was treated for a gunshot wound to the chest and also confessed to the botched robbery.  When the thug and his “friend” fled, they crossed the Mississippi and his friend dumped him at a gas station and “left him there to die.”  His accomplice is still on the loose.

The governments and companies insist on creating crime encouragement zones.  Uber has a No Guns policy for both drivers and riders.  For the driver, it could mean losing his Uber job.  For a passenger it would mean loss of the use of the service.  If they were caught.  Like was stated in an story from a previous similar incident, “If only criminals obeyed the laws, this rule would make sense.”  Sometimes what they don’t know, won’t hurt them.  For this driver, ignoring company policy may have saved his life.  Uber drivers, or Lyft drivers for that matter, should not forfeit their Second Amendment right to defend themselves when they turn on that available switch in the app. Paul can talk to trucking companies doing the same and has many times. (end of story)

Rob- Some companies ban employees from being armed, yet the company will take out a life insurance policy on the employee, and the company gets paid if the employee dies.

Don’t go in there

While we are on the subject of young thugs, this time in Greenville, NC.  In the middle of the afternoon, the homeowner was notified by his alarm system of a break-in.  He notified police during his drive home.  He found 4 inside when he arrived home.  They ran and he fired after them.  He did manage to wound one in an arm.


The five 17 and 18 year olds were caught that same day.  One spent time in the hospital while the others were spending time in the local jail.


Why did the homeowner enter his house before the police arrived?  Why did he fire while they were running away?  He didn’t know if they were armed.  He could have been walking into an ambush of sort.  And if they were running away from him, he was not in any danger.  Luckily for him, he is not being charged. (end of story)


Rob- Gary, what is best practice in this situation.

John – He is lucky because under NC law what he did was illegal. A guy in Western NC was recently convicted of manslaughter for shooting at a fleeing robber.

Rob- I saw two signs on the ceiling of a DoJo.  They said Breathe, and Keep Working.


We post each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com  Please take a minute and share them with a friend.



6- E-mail, blog notes, and show close

(605) 215 – 1438


Listener voicemail


An on body concealed gun collection- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTrXpDK_EYE


Paul: Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?


Thank you, Paul.  I wrote “Disarming the Victim- The Latest Shots in the Democrat’s War on Women”  We had a murderer shoot his wife on a “gun free” campus in “gun free” California.  We had a domestic abuse victim murdered while she waited for permission to buy a gun in New Jersey. And we had Virginia Governor Terry McAuliffe say that domestic abuse victims should not have guns.  If that isn’t a war on women, then I don’t know what is.


I also wrote about having guns on campus, but to know more about that article, you’ll have to look for it at Clash Daily, at Ammoland and on my blog, slow facts dot wordpress dot com.


John, tell us what’s new at your blog no lawyers only guns and money?


John- I have a number of new posts up since we last recorded. Judicial Watch is suing BATFE for documents related to the proposed ban on green tip 5.56 ammo. President Donald Trump is coming to speak at the NRA Leadership Forum. Trump will be the first president since Reagan to speak to the NRA meeting. Finally, a group of anti-gun law professors – but I repeat myself – have weighed in on the lawsuit pending before the Connecticut Supreme Ct trying to say Bushmaster was at fault for selling “military grade assault weapons” to civilians that was then used to kill school children in Newtown. They say nothing about how the killer obtained the firearm – he killed his own mother!


That and more is at only guns and money dot blogspot dot com.


We would like to thank Charlie Foxtrot for writing up show notes for us. Even though you don’t hear him on the air he is certainly part of what you do hear. Look at his blog at not one more gun law dot blogspot dot com


Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast.  I’d like to thank Kevin Davis and ??for joining us today.  So for Charlie Foxtrot, Dana, Jae, Gary, John, Rachel, Susan, Craig, and Rob,  until next time

(Paul, stop talking now)


Gary: stay safe,

Rob: be aware,

John: and we’ll see you down the road.




(after show close) How could we have made this episode better?


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There are Minnesota Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance,  Nebraska Firearms Owners Association,   Citizens for a Safer New Jersey, New York State Rifle & Pistol Association,  Palmetto Concealed Carry, Open Carry Texas, Texas Firearms Freedom, Texas State Rifle Association. Tennessee Firearms Association, Virginia Citizens Defense League, Virginia Open Carry,  West Virginia Citizens Defense League, wisconsingunowners.org, and Wyoming Gun Owners.


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