Episode 406 – Andrew Branca

Full Episode Download: http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/406.mp3

1- Open and Personal News Segment

2- News Segment

3- Interview Segment 1: Andrew Branca


4- Interview Segment 2: Andrew Branca


5- DGU Segment:

6- Email and Show Close:


1- Introduction

Paul: Welcome to episode 406 of the polite society podcast sponsored by the Firearms Policy Coalition, I’m Paul Lathrop

Rob: I’m Rob Morse and on tonight’s show we will talk with Andrew Branca about defending yourself legally after you’ve defended yourself physically.

John: I’m John Richardson, and we’ll talk about a California man who is forcing the state to give him his guns back

Amanda: I’m Amanda Suffecool and Delta Airlines may be violating Federal law with their new policy on check firearms.

Gary: I’m Gary Daugherty and in one of out DGU’s an Oklahoman with an AR15 defends himself against 3 thugs! .. so climb aboard

Amanda: strap in

John : and hang on!

Paul:  episode 406 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.

Show intro music.


Personal news from each participant (when you are done with your segment please ask the next person what has been up with them)


Rob, Bill Frady was moving last Thursday and Friday.  He asked us to guest host, and Paul was on the road.  I had Cheryl and Dan Todd, Dr. John Edeen and Amanda Suffecool to help me as guest hosts.  It is great to have friends who have their own radio show so I can call them to help me.


John – Since we last recorded I have become a NRA Certified Instructor in Basic Pistol. I took the instructor class locally and passed both the written and shooting portions of the class. Dry fire practice really helped me prep for the class. Our class had a range of people ranging from a youth pastor to a retired NY hospital administrator to a metallurgist. We had a total of 9 in the class. There are two groups I hope to teach in Basic Pistol – the newbies who bought firearms in the last couple of years and school teachers. I’d like to run a class for teachers showing them how to safely handle a firearm if a kid should bring one to school.


Rob- Thank you, John.  That is a great idea.


Amanda – this week I am practicing quick drawing for a movie audition in cleveland.  Who knows if they will pick me,  but this is definitely outside of my comfort zone.  And in the gun toys area… can I tell you about a new toy that I just got?  MantisX




Paul/Susan very busy few weeks. Arkansas run (BEAUTIFUL Southwestern Missouri) Run to PA and gave away Ice Cream!  New classes booked, get to that in the training segment. Local woman murdered – offering free training.


Vicki Kawelmacher is an instructor who did the same thing in Reno, Nevada. https://www.facebook.com/womensshootingacademy



Promo about upcoming training classes here.

(June 9-11 2017). MAG-30. Georgetown, TX

(June 24, 25th 2017).  Beyond Concealed Carry Enhanced.  9am -5pm both days. Richmond, IL

(July 8, 2017) Defensive Rifle Skills for the Armed Citizen

(August 10-13, 2017). MAG-40. Sioux Falls, SD

(August 26 & 27, 2017). Beyond Concealed Carry Enhanced. Sioux Falls, SD

(Saturday, February 3, 2018)Law of Self Defense LEVEL 1 Class: South Dakota

(Saturday, February 4, 2018)Law of Self Defense LEVEL 2 Class: South Dakota



2- News 1

Rob- A Clovis California family forces the state to return 500 guns

Albert Shaklee, the former budget director of a hospital in the Fresno area sought some psychological help in 2014. We don’t know and it doesn’t matter what for. What matters is that seeking that help caused the FFL holder to come under the attention of Kamala Harris, the California attorney general who wanted to run for Senate.  Harris was looking to make some headlines, and she proceeded to do just that.


Harris ordered the raid of Shaklee’s home and then widely publicised the seizure of 209 handguns, 88 shotguns, 234 rifles, 181 standard capacity magazines, 10 high capacity magazines, 100,521 rounds of various ammunition, and 10 firearms registered with the DOJ as “assault weapons” including a .50 caliber rifle.


The problem is that Shaklee had committed no crimes. He wasn’t accused of any crimes. , all he had done was seek mental health help. That mattered nothing to Harris who had a campaign to run.


The raid found the guns in a locked and alarmed safe and all of the weapons that required registration in California were registered. As of last July the district attorney for Fresno county declared the situation resolved and that there would be no charges against Shaklee, yet they kept the guns.  


This week some justice has prevailed. A court has ordered the guns be turned over to a FFL so they can be returned to Shaklee. (end of story)


Paul – This is horrifying. A case where gun owners can reasonably fear if they seek mental health care that their rights will be taken from them thereby insuring that they do not seek the care they may need.

John – I read some of the comments on the story. One question asked why anyone needs 500 firearms.

Amanda – was he a FFL himself? Did they take his livelihood?  And hold it for more than a year

Gary –



JohnDoes Delta Airlines New Policy to Zip Tie Luggage Containing Firearms Violate Federal Law?

Guns.com is reporting that Delta Airlines has quietly changed its policy related to passengers who are flying with guns. According to the NBC Affiliate in Fort Lauderdale. This policy was apparently implemented after the shooting that occurred in the Fort Lauderdale airport, after the criminal retrieved his luggage, went to the bathroom to load his firearm and then proceeded to murder five people and injured six others. The airline will now have special tags to alert ground handlers to not put bags carrying weapons on the general carousel.

The baggage will go directly to a baggage service agent who is required to perform an ID check on the passenger who picks up the luggage, sources told NBC 6. The agent must then use zip ties to secure the bag.


Interestingly enough, it appears that Delta may be in violation of federal law by implementing such a policy.

John – The law that this may very well violate is none other than the Brady Bill!

Rob- https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/922

18 U.S. Code § 922 – Unlawful acts section e-  …No common or contract carrier shall require or cause any label, tag, or other written notice to be placed on the outside of any package, luggage, or other container … contains a firearm.”


Amanda –  Rob and I are flying DELTA to go train at the AG&AG conference in two weeks.   What can I expect?  


Paul – this is a great identifier for thieves that work for the airlines.

Gary –


Rob- How can I carry wire cutter to cut the airlines cable ties?

Amanda – perhaps I just don’t fly with my FAVORITE gun.  


Gary- New Nevada Bill Allows Home Invaders to Sue You if You Shoot Them


A man’s home is his castle, or so the saying goes. And people should be able to protect their homes – including our most precious asset, our families – against intruders without fear of a lawsuit.


Some Nevada politicians are trying to change that. They think that you should be financially liable for any injuries they sustain when you defend yourself — even in your home.


Does that sound convoluted? It is. And, it’s ridiculous. If someone is invading your home, the last thing you should be thinking about is being sued if you use force to defend yourself or your family.


Senate Bill 254 removes the provision in Nevada law protecting people from civil liability when they justifiably use potentially deadly force against a person who is injured or killed while invading their home.


Rob- I will bet you odds that this bill was sponsored by the Nevada state bar association.


Rob- Both Nevada houses have Democrat majorities.

John – Civil immunity was part of NC’s Castle Doctrine adopted in 2011.


Gun Quotes: Every time something really bad happens, people cry out for safety, and the government answers by taking rights away from good people.   Penn Jillette


Hang on everybody, we’ll be back with our guest Andrew Branca.



3- Interview 1

Andrew Branca.  Law of Self-Defense.

CLE credit.

Say very little unless you’ve studied what to say.  Don’t blather.


Innocent by reason of..

Do prepaid services cover your costs?  Andrew works with all of them.

Gary- Have any of your students been involved in self-defense cases?

Andrew- Students get angry at me when I explain the law.  Don’t get angry at me if you don’t like the law.  Change it.


John – You did great work on Legal Insurrection educating people on the issues in the Trayvon Martin case. What or how can the media be educated on the difference between Stand Your Ground and the Castle Doctrine?

Andrew- The media often needs to inflame more than they want to inform.

Rob- Our listeners are the good guys.  Most self-defense claims in court are brought by criminals.


4- Interview 2

Andrew Branca.  Law of Self-Defense. (Part 2)



5- DGUs (at beginning) These discussions are NOT legal advice. Some of us are trainers, but this is not formal training and YOU NEED formal training. The Defensive Gun Use segment is intended as information, NOT as training. As always the opinions of the hosts are only their own opinions and not those of any sponsors or other affiliations.


Three Against One AR-15

Early in the morning, five criminals quietly approached a Broken Arrow, Oklahoma home. They had previously burglarized the house’s detached apartment, now they returned to rob the main house, seeking more expensive goods and cash. The three experienced home-invaders were outfitted for their crime; dressed all in black, masked, gloved and armed. One or two waited outside in the car as planned. The team moved silently to the back of the house, then smashed the back glass door and rushed inside.  

The crash startled Zachary Peters, 23, awake. He ran to investigate and to protect his father, who was also in residence.  On the way out of his bedroom, he grabbed a firearm, a wise move. Peters found three black garbed men in the home’s kitchen and faced with those overwhelming odds he feared for his life and fired. Peters then retreated, barricaded himself in his bedroom and called 911. Given the events, he described the situation in a remarkably controlled manner and pleaded for the 911 operator to quickly send medical help for his assailants.       


Arriving deputies found all three intruders dead from single gunshot wounds; one was in the driveway, two were still inside the house. The home’s two residents were uninjured. There was no sign of a getaway car.

Up to this point, this was a somewhat unremarkable home-invasion. It was just another example of this type of crime – a crime that is becoming increasingly prevalent. Perhaps it was a bit unusual, as the intrusion was actually thwarted. However, with the successful use of a civilian firearm, there would have been little notice given by the mainstream media. The story would have been largely forgotten; except for one fact: the firearm used was the left’s despised boogieman: the AR-15.  

The publicized hand-wringing was immediate and intense. Many media reports questioned the “fairness” of using an AR-15, even in a fight for life. Some fixated on the young age of the criminals, ignoring that two were actually adults and their ages were masked by their garb. Very few reports mentioned the potentially deadly nature of the three-on-one assault. In a sympathetic jailhouse interview, the getaway driver, ironically called “the mastermind”, admitted to the home-invasion and other robberies, but wouldn’t take responsibility for the “murders.” The grandfather of a deceased claimed that his grandson shouldn’t have died for a “bad decision.” The cameras were tightly focused when the grieving man said; “There’s got to be a limit to that law.” Other mass media reports hoped that this case would somehow test the Stand Your Ground laws and all but called for the homeowner’s son’s arrest.

Perhaps one of the more over-the-top examples was ABC Good Morning America’s legal analyst, Nancy Grace. In a rambling, error-filled, tour de farce pulled directly from her ample behind, Grace first incorrectly tied Stand Your Ground to the George Zimmerman case, then defamed it as the “Make My Day” law. To her, AR-15s were “considered bad” and “just like a M-16 military rifle… a semi-automatic weapon.” She further smeared Oklahoma’s laws as an homage to Dirty Harry. No less an elite than ABC’s World News Tonight anchor David Muir reported on the Broken Arrow shootings during the GMA segment. From beneath his trademark deeply furrowed, concerned brow, Muir described Grace as one who “always cuts to the chase.” Our listeners are invited to determine for themselves just what Grace was cutting.


In Andrew Branca’s excellent National Review piece; “Mainstream Media Gets ‘Stand Your Ground’ Laws Wrong — Again”, Oklahoma’s Castle Doctrine is identified as the controlling law. The state’s legislation holds that while in their home, it is presumed the defender has a reasonable fear of death or bodily harm and that the intruders intend to commit violence. With those presumptions, a finding of self-defense is very likely. The police are in apparent agreement; while the event is still being investigated, the Wagoner County Sheriff has officially stated that Zachary Peters’ use of force was justified.


There is little to celebrate in this sad affair, except that the victim is alive and will not be victimized a second time by a criminal and civil legal system unjustly concerned with “fairness” and the choice of life-saving equipment. Unfortunately, the mass media will not be as principled.  
What this tragic event amply illustrates is the media’s obvious biases and proud and willful lack of firearm and self-defense knowledge — as well as their overwhelming desire to inflict their biases on the American public.


For The Polite Society Podcast
“The Swan Song”



(end of story)


Gary – Also listening to the 911 recording the, victim said one of the criminals was still in the house and talking and she proceeded to tell him to unload the gun.

John – Nancy Grace is a disgrace to the legal profession and has skirted legal ethics more than once.

Rob- Five on One.  One of the fleeing criminals died on the driveway as the getaway car drove off without them.  The victim had presence of mind to tell the police that the family had dogs and that the dogs were not a threat to the police.

Amanda – 5 on 1,  3 on 1.  that was my first thought – they had brass knuckles and Knives, and 3 on 1.  Yet they- the anti gun agenda folks were singing –  Its not fair.

Paul – I cannot remember who said it, but it’s true… “If you are in a fair fight your tactics suck”


Don’t piss off the old guy

When you have had your home broken into 13 times since last summer, you tend to prepare for the next time.  Granted most of the 13 were while you were away.  The 79 year old homeowner was asleep in his home when he was jolted awake by loud noises coming from his basement. The 3 home invaders moved to the floor where his bedroom was and entered his bedroom.  By the time they entered his room he had armed himself with his .38 revolver.  “It was just POW POW POW.”  He got off 5 shots.  1 thug was killed and 2 of the thugs ran and the homeowner chased them.  There were shots returned in the homeowners direction and he was hit in the ankle with a through and through wound.  “I never felt it.  I fell twice.”


The shooting was ruled justifiable.  Although POGO applies to waking hours, it is wise to have a firearm within easy reach while in bed.(end of story)


Paul – I would like to discuss

Gary –

John – No kids in the house but will be getting a easy-open bedside safe for when my granddaughter comes to visit.

Amanda –  even if you have kids –   you can get into good a

quality safe in less than 4 seconds.

Rob- I had a young man ask about guns.. But he said he needed a safe before he brought guns into his home.  One of my instructors said she is very good at opening her safe.. Because she does it every morning.

Look at Hornady bedside safes, or a simplex lock.

We post each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com  Please take a minute and share them with a friend.



6- E-mail, blog notes, and show close

Listener e-mail discussion


Voicemails… 2 of them!


Amanda – DIck Durbin story.   Dc project


Text Message #1 Have to step aside for a second. Please continue


Can we acknowledge how awful it is to wear flip flops in public? Call me overly tactical but those are terribly unprepared for dangerous circumstances. -CB


Rob- Police investigators mentioned criminals looking for girls wearing flip flops or wearing high heels.  

John – I just think of 9-11 and those who had to evacuate the Twin Towers ran into problems with their office heels.


Text message #2

Just listened to 405 subj: deep conceal. I work a University with a required dress code. I’ve tried the smart carry rig, the belly band rig, but now am sold on the bugbite ankle rig it is amazing. i carry the g-42 8-10 hrs a day no one notices and it is extremely comfortable/thanks for the show


Mr Anonymous asks about deep concealment pocket holsters

Hi, Paul & crew

I sent a brief text while traveling but felt the need to elaborate on the subject of deep carry options.

First, thank you for your labor of love and the service you provide through your podcast. I especially enjoy hearing different perspectives from your round table discussions.

I work at a University and have a uniform provided. I can somewhat relate to the nurse who raised a question about carry options as well as the practice. Rachel’s answer was spot on. Each person must decide based on what they consider an acceptable risk.


I wish to address the secondary issue of how to carry. Over the years I have tried a variety of options which are all compromises but nonetheless, “better to have it and not need it” has been my mantra.


I’ve used the following: Ruger LCP in a nemesis pocket holster; the same in a galco bellyband; a J-frame in a smart carry; but I’ve settled on the G-42 in a new product called the bugbite ankle holster; It is the most comfortable rig I have ever worn. Honestly, after a one day wear/break in period you don’t even know you are wearing it. The first week I committed the mistake of touching the area just to make sure it was there. It feels tight for the first few minutes of putting it on but after that, the material conforms to your calf/ankle and you are on your way.

This is not a quick draw option but it is a comforting one. I just wanted to pass it on for what it’s worth.

Sent in by Mr Anonymous


A Michigander writes in


Hello All –

Just finished listening to Episode 405.

Gary mentioned he was going to have the opportunity to hear Mr. David Keene, one of the authors of the book Shall Not Be Infringed, the New Assaults on Your Second Amendment, speak.

So, Gary… did Mr. Keene speak about the United Nations “Arms Trade Treaty?” I finished the book recently and was surprised how much of the book was dedicated to explaining the Arms Trade Treaty and how the United Nationals works (or doesn’t work). I know the book’s perspective is one-sided considering one of the authors is a former NRA President; nevertheless, the facts are the facts. I think the authors intended the book to be read before the election and in preparation for a Hillary Presidency.

It was really disturbing to hear how an American President (Obama) orchestrated and planned a complete end-around on the 2nd Amendment and the delivery of the American people as in… “We the People” … to the will of the U.N.

So, do you guys think the US Senate would ever ratify a U.N. treaty that would so flagrantly violate the Bill of Rights?

Clearly that was the game plan if Hillary got the Presidency and the far-Left did better in the Senate last November.

I don’t remember…did anybody bring up President Obama’s failure to up hold the Constitution and his Oath of Office when he asked the U.N. to put the Arms Trade Treaty up for approval shortly after he won his second term.


Your Faithful Anonymous Michigan Listener


John – Only if they can get 67 votes to ratify the treaty.

Amanda – we want it pulled up to vote and KILL it


A listener offers Rob some advice

Another good podcast.  Early on, one gentleman said he was coming to Austin for a MAG20 class.  I trust that he is a responsible adult and purchased a round trip ticket.  Also, once back home, I encourage him to tell everyone what a wonderful place Lubbock is.

— Matt

Rob-  Dear Matt.  I’ll drive.  They have lanes that lead in, and lanes that lead out of Austin.


Finally Clayton chimes in

Okay so every decent trainer knows the value of dry fire. But I have never heard anyone address the incorrect “muscle memory” neurological pathway training of giving your Glock/Smith and Wesson/etc. a quick slide rack between every single trigger pull. Anybody with a reeeeally high dry to live fire ratio might be affecting their performance under adrenaline. Thoughts?


Rob- I get it.  Clayton is …

If you are doing a lot of dry fire, then get a SIRT pistol.


Amanda – my walther does not require it..


John – I love my SIRT but I’d also suggest a revolver. If you can smoothly pull the trigger in a double action revolver, it will help all the rest.

have a


-Clayton Some More


Paul: Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?





Clash Daily.  Ammoland.  Slowfacts. That is at slow facts dot wordpress dot com.  John, tell us what’s new at your blog no lawyers only guns and money.


There are a couple of post I’d like to point out. First, I have updated Every Picture Tells A Story to include the newest Constitutional Carry states. When Rob Vance and I started this series, Illinois still didn’t have concealed carry and only 3-4 states had permitless carry. The other post illustrates the battle between science and ideologues over suppressors and the Hearing Protection Act. The post has a link to the recent white paper put out by Doctors for Responsible Gun Ownership endorsing suppressors on public health grounds.


That and more is at only guns and money dot blogspot dot com.

Ask Amanda what has been going on at Eye on the Target Radio


We would like to thank Charlie Foxtrot for writing up show notes for us. Even though you don’t hear him on the air he is certainly part of what you do hear. Look at his blog at not one more gun law dot blogspot dot com


Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast.  I’d like to thank Andrew Branca for joining us today.  So for Charlie Foxtrot, Gary, John, Rachel, Susan, Dana, Jae, Amanda, Craig, and Rob,

(Paul, stop talking now)


Rob: Until the next time…

Gary: stay safe,

Amanda: be aware,

John: and we’ll see you down the road.


(after show close) How could we have made this episode better?


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There are Minnesota Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance,  Nebraska Firearms Owners Association,   Citizens for a Safer New Jersey, New York State Rifle & Pistol Association,  Palmetto Concealed Carry, Open Carry Texas, Texas Firearms Freedom, Texas State Rifle Association. Tennessee Firearms Association, Virginia Citizens Defense League, Virginia Open Carry,  West Virginia Citizens Defense League, wisconsingunowners.org, and Wyoming Gun Owners.


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