Full Episode Download: http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/382.mp3
1- Open and Personal News Segment:
2- News Segment
3- Interview Segment 1: Guest Marty Hayes from ACLDN
4- Interview Segment 2: Guest Pete from the Gunshow Loophole Tour
5- DGU Segment:
6- Email and Show Close:
Paul: Welcome to the Polite Society Podcast powered by the Firearms Policy Coalition recorded on, 2016. I’m Paul Lathrop
Rob: I’m Rob Morse and on tonight’s show we will talk about the attacks on Dallas Police.
John: I’m John Richardson, and we’ll talk with Marty Hayes of the Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network
Gary: I’m Gary Daugherty and we talk about a self-defense story where four robbers attacked a single person, but the victim was armed.. So climb aboard.
Rob: strap in
John : and hang on!
Paul: episode 382 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.
Show intro music.
Personal news from each participant (when you are done with your segment please ask the next person what has been up with them)
Rob- Carried every day. I’ve taken some training recently. I wrote down my weaknesses and then dry practiced to make them better. Last Sunday I was on the Gun Talk radio program with Tom Gresham. Thursday, I recorded a segment with Ben Branam on his Modern Self-Defense podcast. I put out another episode of Self-Defense Gun Stories. Yesterday I recorded an interview with Bob Mayne on his Handgun World podcast. I want to ask our listeners for their suggestions. Is there a flash hider that had fine slots in it and would reduce noise or direct noise away from the shooter without being called a suppressor?
John – I spent Saturday afternoon working the Grass Roots North Carolina booth at the local gun show with Barb. We talked to a number of people. I was a bit surprised that it wasn’t packed given the events in Dallas and all the talk about gun control. I also e-filed two ATF Form 1’s for permission to build a .22 and a .45 silencer. I think a lot of people are or were rushing to do this as the website kept crashing on me. I finally did it at 5am on Saturday morning when I was up answering the call of nature.
Promo about upcoming training classes here.
2- News 1
–Leading our news this week is the shocking attack on Dallas Police officers.
It is with heavy hearts that we must report that an attack on Friday evening July 8th claimed the lives of 5 Dallas area law enforcement officers. While details are still a little unclear as of Sunday morning when we record this, it appears as though a single gunman took a long gun and ended the lives of the police officers who had been working to try and maintain order during a Black Lives Matter protest.
Keeping with our long standing policy of not naming mass killers on our show, we do however note that the person being named as the killer had no criminal history, and according to police appears to have acted alone.
According to published reports the killer was apparently upset over shootings in Louisiana and Minnesota where people were killed in confrontations with law enforcement. He stated during a standoff with police that his goal was to kill white people, especially white police officers.
Bristol Tennessee has seen Black Lives Matter violence as well this week. While only killing one person, the thug in this case went on a walking tour of Bristol and wounded many. On this killers Facebook page was found much racist rhetoric as well.
Our thoughts and prayers go out to the victims of these horrific assaults.
Rob- I thought it was revealing that the Dallas protesters hid behind the police once shots broke out. Being poor and black is hard. Most of those problems are not caused by the police. If the cops wanted to hurt blacks, then the police would stop responding to crime in black areas. Unfortunately we are seeing copycat attacks across the US.
John – So much of what is first reported is wrong.
Paul – It is more important than ever that you get armed and get trained
Rob- Second reports that the long gun was an SKS.
John – I do have trouble with the use of the robot and the bomb.
Rob- I don’t.
Paul – I don’t either, the guy was saying that he had bombs “all over the place”
-Here is a side of the black community we don’t see often enough. WHAT IF we stopped trying to get guns off the street of our large cities, and instead started licensing young men to legally carry a gun. Maj Toure has a campaign called Black Guns Matter. Toure is a young African American man who grew up in North Philadelphia. He carried a gun illegally and later became an official, dues-paying NRA member and legal gun owner.
Quote “The stigma, especially in an urban environment like Philly, is if you have a gun, you’re either law enforcement or the bad guy. What we’re trying to do is say that just because you have a gun doesn’t make you the bad guy. But while you have your firearm, which you have the right to have, you have to be a responsible, card-carrying good guy.” close quote
And a card-carrying good guy includes those people protecting themselves against a bad guy breaking into their home, or a bad guy shooting up a public space. Quote, “there is no difference between a white gun culture or black gun culture.. Our aim is to try to get more people on the side of the informed gun culture” close quote.
John – Rick Ector is doing the same sort of work and training in Detroit.
Rob- Toure isn’t the first, but it is great to hear him promote responsible gun ownership in the black community.
Gun Quotes- Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. Martin Luther King Jr.
Hang on everybody, we’ll be back to talk with Marty Hayes of ACLDN
3- Interview 1 Marty Hayes – Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network
4- Interview 2 Pete – Gun Show Loophole Tour
CCW Carrier Shoots Knife Wielding Hostage Taker
In just a few seconds, a gas station customer had to make the most difficult decision — and shot of his life.
A man robbed an East Ridge, Tennessee Kangaroo gas station and convenience store. Along with cash and cigarettes, the thief grabbed a female employee, pressing a large knife to her neck. He dragged her into the parking lot – likely to a horrible fate. However, a sharp eyed customer had realized the store was being robbed and retrieved his firearm from the car. On the store’s front sidewalk, the robber, still holding the woman at knife point, confronted the armed citizen. In that awful scenario, the man reacted and shot several times, hitting the assailant. The career criminal died, the woman hostage was unharmed.
East Ridge Police Captain Tim Mullinax was quick to call the citizen “lucky.” The facts certainly speak otherwise. Self-defense guru Michael Bane talks about “delivering the shot.” That is, having sufficient equipment, training and practice to make the shot that must be made. In using the gun precisely to eliminate the threat and save the woman, this citizen certainly ”delivered the shot.” It was a horrible risk, if the hostage had been injured, the citizen would have faced jail time. Despite what the Captain said, it was the woman who was lucky – that citizen put his life, liberty and finances on the line for her safety.
Rob- I wonder if the citizen shot IPSC or USPSA. I read that the police would have prosecuted the hero if he missed. A policeman would have been excused if he missed.
Paul – I have trained and practiced to take that shot. I would encourage our listeners to as well.
Rob- That should get us out range.
Four Against One On the Mean Streets of Detroit
Four robbers on one victim isn’t all that unusual on the mean streets of Detroit. However, this time it was different: the victim had brought along a friend, his conceal carry weapon. When the four thugs approached the off-duty security guard, demanded his money and then hit him on the head with a baton, he pulled his licensed concealed firearm and shot. A 21-year-old fell and his three buddies left him there on the street. The unnamed criminal remains hospitalized in serious condition.
Another win for POGO!
Rob- the security guard was walking from the bus to a friends house. The thugs had robbed a woman earlier that hour.
Paul – I don’t know if I would have waited until being struck
John – took a bus? Think about if it had been in Illinois.
Not a Rose Garden
We never promised you a rose garden – or one that was crime free. A romantic walk through a Eugene, Oregon rose garden put a young couple in harm’s way. During their stroll, they were approached by a man asking for money. When Jason Rorex refused, the man pulled a knife. Rorex flashed a gun. Realizing he had just brought a knife to a gunfight, Adolfo Rodriguez, 29, pocketed his knife and walked away. The police were called and arrested the slow moving Rodriguez. He will possibly face armed robbery charges.
Rorex and his date were relieved that he had his pistol that day. He doesn’t always carry, but after the recent events in Orlando, he started openly carrying.
POGO: you’re doing it right! And Shannon – this is a DGU without a shot fired, just like the vast majority of DGUs. Yes, toots, they do happen. A lot.
Paul – possibly face robbery
Rob- I’ll only carry if I have to go someplace dangerous. This was the middle of the day, busy park. Yeah, carry everywhere.
The Gun Is a Tool — You Are The Weapon
A Toledo, Ohio robbery perfectly illustrates the old maxim that a gun is just a tool – you are the weapon. While buying a drink at Circle K, Michael Keith was surprised and forced into his own car at gunpoint. Matthew Johns threatened that he would shoot his victim’s legs off if he didn’t move. Keith obviously decided that the only way to make a bad situation worse was to go with the attacker; kidnappings don’t usually end well. In Keith’s words; “I wasn’t going to die tonight.” The only way out was to resist – totally.
Keith’s opening gambit smashed Johns’ head against the car window. That worked spectacularly, and Keith forced both of them out of the car and onto the ground. During the scrum, Johns dropped his gun, which Keith quickly used to bash his opponent’s head. “I wasn’t going to do anything. I was just hitting him in the head with it since I wasn’t going to shoot him. And he tackled me up against the pole that’s over there and when I started screaming out for help.” <unquote> At that moment, Johns decided he was done with this – and ran.
Police arrested Johns sometime later. He will be charged with aggravated robbery and felonious assault. Keith was treated for minor injuries and released.
Well done, sir! Sometimes, like our anti-gun opponents, we focus too much on the firearm. But the gun is only a tool. It is the user’s will to survive, to defend, to overcome, to win that’s important. And that will can triumph even without the use of a firearm.
Bagged an armed bad guy, without being armed, no shots fired…. Well done, indeed.
Paul – a gun can still be used as a club
Who need Medical Marijuana – It’s Colorado!
Combine an accused felon, a janitor, a robbery on a university campus (hey, that never happens!), a foot pursuit, sagging pants, takeout, a good samaritan, bushes and a choke hold and you get this confusing tale from confused Colorado.
Kaleb Caddy, 24, stopped by an university area eatery after a Colorado Rockies <spit> game. Bringing the food back to his car, he was treated to the sight of a young man, a wallet in one hand, trying to run while hobbled by his sagging pants. Then an older man, blowing hard, staggered up and asked for help. He was chasing the man who robbed him at gunpoint on the University of Northern Colorado campus.
Caddy took up the chase after grabbing his own handgun from the trunk. Saggy Britches escaped over a fence, but still found himself under Caddy’s gun. “I told him to freeze. I pointed my firearm at him. I told him to drop the wallet and wait for the police,” Caddy said. The thief obliged, but spooked when Caddy put his gun in his pocket. Caddy chased and tackled the thief into some bushes, and ended the short struggle with a wrestler’s choke hold he learned in high school. When the police finally arrived, they took Ronald Lee Gonzales, 24, into custody. Gonzales had been out on bail for just a week after a felony menacing arrest. The busy Gonzales was due back in court in a couple of weeks.
While we applaud the civic mindedness of Caddy, it’s obvious that he risked an awful lot in chasing an armed criminal. The gun was later found to be a replica, but that only matters in hindsight. No lives were being endangered, so a carrier probably should try to stay out of the mess. And when Caddy captured and held the criminal… well, there are ways to do that better. Fortunately, everything came out for the best. But, before Caddy chases the next person with their pants around their ankles, we sincerely hope he gets some training.
Paul – we are NOT the police
John – I just want to know how the guy got over the fence with sagging pants!
Rob- I know how the guy felt when you realize the robber victimized and old guy.
We post each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com Please take a minute and share them with a friend.
6- E-mail, blog notes, and show close
Voice Mail –
Dear Polite Society,
Here’s a large multi-part email you can address over the course of multiple episodes if needed!
I am so sorry to have neglected my duties of writing in emails. I would personally like to apologize to the entire listener base for having to endure Paul’s recipe and specifically apologize to Gary. I will try to never let you down again!
I had, however, left a message for a little discussion on the Polite Society’s facebook messenger I was hoping would make the air! The massacre in Orlando led to some polarizing discussions on social media: I was wondering if the cast had any advice discerning when people are worth debating and when you should consider them a lost cause.. I lost much sleep over this.
I liked the sound of Project Blazing Sword, I certainly will be offering my services to anyone in need for free basic firearm safety training.
I agree that my time is worth something and I need to be paid for my more extensive classes like my six hour Permit to Carry.
Thanks for inviting those Geeks onto the show to ramble on about their gadgets and breaking a plethora of sound barriers, that was pretty entertaining. Special Thanks to Matt for *almost* giving me credit for lending out the gun Pat used to take 2nd place at Mag40!
I’m going to stand behind Paul on his comments towards the DGU where the armed citizen had a 1 in 15 hit ratio. I’d remind the audience that every bullet fired has a lawyer attached to it. Where did those other 14 go? Was the shooter certain of their stopping point? If he couldn’t get more than 1 out of 15 to land, I doubt that. We owe it to society to have judicious marksmanship. Know your abilities and do not exceed them when lives are at stake.
I hope everyone is taking advantage of low ammo prices and plentiful availability before the election, I sat myself down and took inventory of my reserves.
I’d like to bring attention to the #AmmoCanChallenge issued out by Paul Markel on Student of the Gun Radio. What we are supposed to do it purchase an empty 50BMG sized steel ammo can and fill it with loose training ammo before September 1st. No cardboard, plastic trays, foam, etc. I don’t want to hear people complaining if the shelves are empty around election time!
Thanks for everything y’all do. Stay safe out there; stay dangerous!
P.S. Over 3,000 of the emails thanking Gary were from me.
Rob- training ammo, or sd?
I just wanted to point out that as early as June 16 the Buckeye Firearms Association offered to help educate the LGBT on firearms and self-defense – for free.
BFA is a great organization. In 2012 they also responded to the danger to our children by : http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/armed-teacher-training-program-provide-free-training-educators
From that article, “The program will begin by accepting 24 teachers. All expenses, including class tuition, ammunition, and lodging (which are expected to total approximately $1,000 per teacher), will be paid by Buckeye Firearms Foundation and outside donations.”
Rob- a gun range in Houston offered free training for LGBT also.
I hope you all are well. I was wondering if you had some insight on the following scenario.
When a criminal attacks a law abiding citizen, and the citizen must respond with deadly force and succeeds to stop, but not kill the criminal, does that fact that the criminal will likely seek revenge at a later time factor into the magnitude of deadly force that should be used?
I’m guessing that legally, the potential for future harm cannot be rational for responding to a current active threat, but I struggle a little with this scenario. When I hear all the DGU’s that end with the criminal being hurt, but not killed, I wonder about the future safety of the intended victims, and was curious to hear your comments.
Thank you very much. Love the show!
Rob- You can’t use information you don’t know at the time.
John – I agree with Rob. You shoot to stop not necessarily kill.
Paul – when properly applied deadly force is well… deadly however hot all situations end up as expected
John – I’ve been reading Nobel laureate Daniel Kahneman’s Thinking Fast and Slow.
Paul: Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?
Rob- I wrote an article thanking our listeners. I’m grateful because they know violence exists. They studied how we are attacked and how we might respond. Armed Americans considered how they would respond to violence if they were with family, with friends, or alone. They visualized how they would escape or stop the threat until law enforcement arrived. Armed Americans know murderers can be stopped. There is a lot that everyone can learn from Armed America, but for now I’ll say thank you. That article and more are at Ammoland and on my blog, slow facts dot wordpress dot com.
John, tell us what’s new at your blog no lawyers only guns and money
John- Since we last recorded I’ve posted a number of blog posts. There are two I’d like to point out. The first ties in with the email from Carl above. I noted that there is a new LGBTQ PAC called the Pride Fund to End Gun Violence (sic). I find it very sad that a gay-oriented organization would be so anti-self-defense and anti-self-reliance. I look at the work that that Erin Palette has done with his Operation Blazing Sword as well as the work that Pink Pistols does and then there is this. I just make you want to shake your head. The other post I would like to point out is about the blood dancing of the Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence (sic). Less than 2 hours after the murders of police officers in Dallas when we really knew nothing they were blaming lax gun laws in Texas for the murders. Their commenters were also blaming, of course, the NRA and surprisingly libertarians and the Koch brothers. I find this blood dancing disgusting as I hope do all civilized people.
That and more is at only guns and money dot blogspot dot com.
We would like to thank Charlie Foxtrot for writing up show notes for us. Even though you don’t hear him on the air he is certainly part of what you do hear. Look at his blog at not one more gun law dot blogspot dot com
Recipe choices – Asparagus Macaroni Loaf, Head cheese, Jellied Chicken, Vienna Sausage Shortcake, Pickle Stretcher Salad, or Klingon Gagh (Gawk)
Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast. I’d like to thank (Marty Hayes from ACLDN and Pete from gunwebsites.com) for joining us today. So for Charlie Foxtrot, Gary, John, Rachel, Susan, and Rob,
(Paul, stop talking now)
Rob: Until the next time…
Gary: stay safe,
Sue: be aware,
John: and we’ll see you down the road.
(after show close) How could we have made this episode better?
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There are Minnesota Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance, Nebraska Firearms Owners Association, Citizens for a Safer New Jersey, New York State Rifle & Pistol Association, Palmetto Concealed Carry, Open Carry Texas, Texas Firearms Freedom, Texas State Rifle Association. Tennessee Firearms Association, Virginia Citizens Defense League, Virginia Open Carry, West Virginia Citizens Defense League, wisconsingunowners.org, and Wyoming Gun Owners.
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