Episode 376 – Troy Clopton and Greg Hopkins

Full Episode Download:

1- Open and Personal News Segment

2- News Segment 1

3- Interview Segment 1: Troy Clopton

4- Interview Segment 2: Greg Hopkins

5- DGU Segment:

6- Email and Show Close:


1- Introduction

Paul: Welcome to the polite society podcast sponsored by the Firearms Policy Coalition recorded on Thursday May 5th 2016 (Still getting over my May the 4th hangover), I’m Paul Lathrop

Rob: I’m Rob Morse, and on tonight’s show we will talk with Troy Clopton and Greg Hopkins about Guns and the Christian faith.

John: I’m John Richardson, and we’ll talk about promoting guns on college campus.. Without being arrested.

Gary: I’m Gary Daugherty and in one of our DGU’s A young man tried to rob a concealed carry holder with a bb gun.  You can guess how that ended..  so climb aboard

Susan: strap in

John : and hang on!

Paul:  episode 376 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.

Show intro music.


Personal news from each participant (when you are done with your segment please ask the next person what has been up with them)


Rob- I created a new website called Everyone for Gun Safety.  Some Washington Lawyers suggested I stop using my old wordpress site Everytown for gun safety.  And I’m reading three gun books.


John – Barb and I had a great weekend at the East TN Blogger Shoot. We met up on Friday night for dinner with Dennis giving us a tour of his holster workshop. Then on Saturday we spent all day at the range despite torrential rain later in the day. There was a lot of “here, try this pistol” or “may I try your .357 mag lever action” throughout the day. We had great food, great company, and a great time. Then yesterday I had coffee with Andy Langlois who runs the Scout Rifle Forum and is the maker of the Ching Sling.


Gary – Getting ready for MAG40

Paul/Susan Final week before MAG 40. Really getting rushed with preparations.


Promo about upcoming training classes here.



2- News 1

There is room for liberty on campus.. Even in Texas.  Nicole Sanders and a fellow activist were recruiting students on the Brenham campus of Blinn College to join Young Americans for Liberty, a student organization Sanders was forming. The two held signs for an hour and a half outside of the student center. One sign read “LOL,” with the Obama presidential campaign logo replacing the “O,” and another sign stated, “Defend Gun Rights on Campus.”

After they were done recruiting, Sanders and her friend went into the student center, where they were approached by an administrator and three armed campus police officers. The administrator told them they needed “special permission” to collect sign-ups for their club and display their signs. The official then added, “I don’t know that you can get special permission” to advocate for gun rights, explaining that she was not against guns, but “on campus, I’m not so sure.” Sanders later requested clarification from a different administrator, who sent her copies of two college policies, one of which required that student organizations request permission a month in advance and gain approval from four administrators for any on- or off-campus expressive activity.


The contest about who is allowed to speak and carry signs ended with Blinn College paying 50 thousand dollars for damages and attorney fees.


Well done.. And let’s “Defend Gun Rights on Campus.”

John – Good for Nicole. Too bad Georgia Gov. Nathan Deal, a NRA A+ rated Republican, didn’t listen to her. He vetoed campus carry yesterday which had easily passed the GA Legislature.


Another record month of background checks

According to AWR Hawkins over at Breitbart April set the 12th record month in a row of background checks for retail gun sales.  Background checks performed in April was 2,145,865. That beats the previous April record of 1,742,946, which was set in 2014. This streak should continue, and if it looks like Hillary may actually win her bid for the White house expect to see it explode, and another round of gun and ammo shortages hit your local gun store.


Rob- 23 percent year to year is substantial growth.


Sheldon Silver gets a 12 year sentence

Former New York state assembly speaker and one of the authors of the New York SAFE act Sheldon Silver was sentenced to 12 years in prison this week for corruption. In addition to the prison term Sheldon was ordered to repay 5.2 million in ill gotten gains and pay a 1.75 million dollar fine. Sheldon must report to the prison by July 1st to start serving his sentence.


Rob- Convicted felon Sheldon Silver was a very strong supporter for Hillary Rodham Clinton

Gary – Unfortunately you are the only person saying it, we won’t see that in the press.


Obama going after gun rights through Social Security.

Katie Pavlich over at Townhall is reporting that the Obama administration is trying again to push through a requirement that all recipients of Social Security that get their benefits through a third party be submitted to the federal NICS system and have their 2nd amendment rights stripped. This is a trap that will possibly ensnare millions of Social Security recipients who may for convenience decide that they would like some help with their financial affairs. This is a move that we have reported on before, but it looks like the Obama administration is getting serious about moving forward on this quickly.


John – Adding another 4 million people to the NICS banned list makes me angrier than you can image. It is unconscionable to these people and to veterans who fought for this country.

Gary –

Rob- Some of them are ill or undergoing medical treatment.  If you ask someone to pay your bills while you’re undergoing chemo then you lose your right to own or be near a firearm.


Beating on the Chicago “EL”

A student was attacked on the CTA Blue Line in broad daylight – and she says other people on the train just watched as she was beaten. (WLS)


Chicago DePaul student Jessica Hughes was on her way home when she was attacked while sitting in a rail car near the Blue Line stop at Harrison and Kedzie. The attack happened around 10am on Thursday morning.


“If you were seeing someone else getting abused, wouldn’t you want to step in?” Hughes said.


Hughes said that perhaps more painful than the beating she took at the hands of two robbers while riding the “L”, is that fellow passengers who saw the attack, did nothing to stop it.


“I was yelling for help. There were two other guys on the train and they did nothing. They just watched as he beat me,”


Her 19 y.o. Attacker wanted her iPhone and started beating her when she would not let go. His female accomplice then punched her in the face before fleeing at the next stop without the iPhone.


Hughes suffered a broken nose but is recovering at home. She is not sure when or if she will take the train again given the attack.


Police said they are looking at surveillance video as they continue to search for the attackers. So far, no one is in custody.


Rob- People watched as this young woman was beaten in broad daylight .. in a gun free zone.

Gary –

John – Gary, Is pepper spray also banned?


Gun Quotes-  This one is from Michael Beard.  Michael said, “I would agree that clearly, no law is going to prevent criminals from getting handguns or any kind of weapons they want.. You can’t stop criminals from getting guns”  Michael Beard was the executive director of the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence.


Hang on everybody, we’ll be back with our guests Troy Clopton and Greg Hopkins.



4- Interview 1-Troy Clopton of god and guns podcast


5- Interview 2- Greg Hopkins about Guns and the Christian faith. He is the author of A Time to Kill: The Myth of Christian Pacifism

Rob- You sound certain.  Why is this contentious?


6- DGUs


We’ve got a number of self defense stories – unfortunately, with more than usual lessons to be learned.


Real vs. Fake Gun – Which One Wins?

A Millennial brought a BB gun to a gunfight — and whadayaknow — lost.   

The Boston area teen offered to sell a dirt bike to a 31-year-old man. They settled on a 700 buck price and agreed to meet in a quiet, family neighborhood to complete the deal.  However, the 15-year-old had something other than honest capitalism in mind; he packed a realistic looking BB gun.

When the teenager produced the gun, there was an immediate struggle for the weapon. During the fight, the victim was able to get to a pistol he had in his truck. He fired three times, striking the crook once. The ventilated criminal ran off, but collapsed nearby.  Police arrived to take the thuglet to the hospital, where his condition has not been released due to his age. He will eventually be charged with Armed Robbery While Masked. The investigation is continuing, but to date no charges have been filed against the victim, who is licensed to carry a gun. The victim wisely refused to discuss the shooting with local media. The area’s residents seemed generally supportive of the victim, despite the gunplay that shattered their neighborhood’s quiet.

When looking at this incident, we must again reiterate the dangers of these Craigslist type of sales. Please be hyper-aware and utilize police parking lots to make the transactions, if possible. And if licensed, it is nearly always better to carry on body, instead of nearby. Leaving the gun in the truck could have proved disastrous to the gentleman. For the Millennial, we hope he will learn something from this experience and straighten out… We can always hope.  


Paul – Play stupid games win stupid prizes – POGO

Rob- Consider the options.  The gun is usually real, not a bb bun.  Carry, because you don’t know when criminals will attack you.


80-Year-Old Stops Brutal Attack By 25-Year-Old

Talk about disparity of force: a 25-year-old intruder with a large knife was stabbing a 75-year-old man on the floor. Fortunately, his 80-year-old wife had an equalizer.


Investigating the late-night sounds of a door being kicked in, the woman found her husband on the floor, with a man with a large knife standing over him. She ran to a bedroom and got a gun and shot the attacker several times, saving her husband from additional wounds. He was airlifted to Seattle hospital with several abdominal stab punctures, but is expected to survive. His assailant did not.

Police determined that the criminal (excuse us: the person involved in the <quote> “Justice” <end quote> system) lived several miles away from the couple’s’ rural Snohomish County, Washington home. Police believe the perpetrator did not know the victims; this seems a random crime; perhaps the house was chosen for it’s remote location.   


We certainly commend the woman’s courage and skill. However, we will point out that several precious seconds could have been saved it the couple were wearing their firearms. We will continue to advocate for POGO: Pants On – Gun On, even if you are living your Golden Years in the beautiful Washington countryside. This is just one more instance where the possession of a firearm by law-abiding citizens prevented a tragedy that could well have included multiple murders.

Can you hear us now, Bloomberg?  


John – While the intruder may not have known his victims, I wonder if he went after them for drugs. Elderly people tend to be on more medications.

Pregnant Couple In Stand-Off With Armed Burglar
A young Tennessee couple faced a nightmare situation: a Mexican Stand-off with an armed intruder.

The couple returned home one evening and found several broken windows. They somehow decided to search their home with guns drawn. It was hardly surprising that they found a man in a closet, and that he had a gun. In a scene reminiscent of the classic The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly climax, the three faced each other over drawn guns. The couple recognized their 20-year-old neighbor and the woman’s pink handgun he was pointing at them. The criminal threatened the couple with death unless they disarmed, they refused and called 911. Making the best of an insane situation, the operator told the couple to stay on the phone and “keep your gun pointed. That way, if he shoots, you fire also.” <unquote>  Oy. <unquote>


When deputies arrived, they tried negotiating with the suspect still inside the house. The cornered criminal even called 911 to talk to the cops. “He counted down from 10. We heard “7”, then we heard a pop.” The suspect had taken his own life.

When analyzing this situation, there’s one very big DON’T DO! Never enter a building where a criminal is suspected of hiding. That’s for the police; they have the training, equipment and manpower to do that very dangerous task. Clearing a building can and does get people killed, even trained professionals. These two, and their unborn child, are VERY lucky they survived.

Stupidity kills. Even if Darwin happened to be looking the other way this time.  


Rob- Let’s look at what they did right.  They were carrying, and they did not lower their guard.


Boy Shoots a Home Invader, Who Cries Like a Baby

A Talladega, Alabama boy shot a home invader, making him cry like a widdle baby.  Chris Gaither, 11 was home alone when a burglar broke in. Scared, he grabbed a handgun and called for the burglar to leave the house. It seems the boy was surprised by the intruder coming down the stairs. The crook told the boy he was going kill him with all the usual colorful expletives.   


According to the news reports, the intruder made it to the front door before the boy started firing. The crook trundled across the yard and was about to jump a fence before the boy’s 12th and last round hit him in the leg.  “I shot through the hamper he was carrying,” Gaither said. “it was a full metal jacket bullet. It went straight through the back of his leg. He started crying like a little baby.” <unquote>


Police have not released the name of the suspect, nor his condition in the local hospital. Gaither’s mother believes the man has robbed their house before. The young marksman gives his stepdad all the credit for his shooting skills.

It goes without saying that we commend the bravery of the boy. However, we will once again reiterate that if the criminal is running away, the law in Tennessee and most states does not allow the victim to fire. Additionally, full metal jacketed bullets usually have no place in a self-defense firearm. Still, when this stout-hearted lad turns 18, we hope he gets his CCW, along with some additional training.


Paul – In SD the parent is liable (financially) for the actions of their children.


Rob- Good that he was armed.  Good that his parents exposed him to firearms and decided he was mature enough to use them.  Bad that he fired at a fleeing criminal.  The youngsters use of force may be justified since the criminal threatened him with death or great bodily harm.


John – I would make sure that the young man get some more training. If he only hit him with one out of 12 rounds, he needs more marksmanship training plus knowing when to not shoot.


CCW Intervenes in a Domestic Dispute Shooting — And is Killed
And finally, come a very harsh, very real aspect of our concealed carry life, one we feel our listeners need to take to heart.

T.J. Antell, 35, witnessed a domestic dispute turn to gunfire outside a Arlington, Texas Walgreen’s. Ricci Bradden, 22, shot his wife Quinisha once in the ankle and jumped in his truck to escape. Former Marine Antell ran to his own truck for his weapon and attempted to stop Bradden. The Army soldier got out of his truck, slapped down Antell’s firearm, and shot him in the head. The father of three died in the Walgreen’s parking lot in front of his wife, Crystal.  


“He went into protective mode. He’s a father, he’s protective by nature,” Antell’s pastor, Marc Lowrance, told reporters. “And he thought he could help everyone involved, and tragically it went a different way.” <unquote>

Tragic is a gross understatement. There’s nothing about a CCW license or training that guarantees a happy outcome. A very brave man put his life on the line attempting a citizen’s arrest of an armed and fleeing suspect. And unfortunately, he lost that bet, to the detriment of his family and to all of us that no longer have the company of such a fine man. One of the absolute rules of the armed citizen is that if you do not need to act to save life or limb, You. Should. Not. Act. Please honor the memory of T.J. Antell and keep that in mind. And maybe, spare a moment in prayer for this outstanding man and his family.  

Godspeed, T.J. Antell. Rest in Peace, Marine.  


Gary –

John –


We post each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com  Please take a minute and share them with a friend.



7- E-mail, blog notes, and show close


Listener e-mail discussion


Hello again from the Steel City!


Wanted to share my thoughts on a class I took over the weekend here in Pittsburgh. My skills with a carbine are somewhat lacking so I decided to take a “Carbine 1”: course taught locally here in the area. Class was $350 bucks. This is a rather long winded email, so feel free to edit this to fit for time purposes or as needed.


Here is what I was told via their web site.



  • Firearms Safety Rules
  • Developing Proper Situational Awareness
  • Carbine Zeroing
  • 7 Fundamentals of Carbine Marksmanship
  • Carbine Reloads and Malfunction Clearing
  • Carbine to Pistol Transitions
  • Proper Use of Cover and Concealment
  • Threat Discrimination
  • Standard and Non-Standard Shooting Positions
  • Shooting While Moving
  • Night Shoot / Low Light Exercise


Well let me say the course was not what it was built up to be. I could give you a blow by blow of the course but I’ll just give you the lowlights here.

1) We were told to bring a minimum of 500 rounds. After day one, he out loud questioned if 500 hundred rounds would be enough, then when all was said and done, Ii personally only got to shoot about 350 rounds (we all shot the same amount so I am sure most had extra ammo at the end. Some even went to the gun store to buy more after day 1 based on his comments.

2) His demeanor ranged from wanting to be our buddies more than teach us to downright belittling one student who was struggling.

3) Some brought his stated minimum number of 3 AR magazines then were criticized for not having enough and slowing the class down.

4) Several things we were to cover were simply not done. Two people said they needed to zero their rifles, he took about 15 minutes to help them then just said “Well that is good enough, you can work with that” The “7 fundamentals of carbine marksmanship” were not covered except for him to name them out to us on the firing line. We did ZERO malfunction drills. ZERO. Cover and concealment were not covered. All shooting was done standing on the firing line for all shooting. No shooting and moving. No night shoot.

5) the last hour and a half were spent with him giving his list of AR’s and equipment he recommends. And when i say recommends, if your not using what he uses, it’s junk. Example. “All pistols other than the Glock series and the S&W M&P series are junk.” Student who owns a Sig 226. “What about Sig’s?” Instructor “Sig’s are over engineered junk”.  Another example “The only AR you should get should be made by one of 3 companies. Bravo Compnay, Lurue. Or Colt. Anything else is junk.” Now mind you, I am smart enough to see the errors in his statements, but most of the class was nodding their heads and literally taking notes. One person behind me spoke to his wife (also attending the class) about his need to trade in this existing AR for one that the instructor mentioned.  

6) The instructors Bravo Company AR repeatedly jammed during class. He blamed this on new magazines he was trying out. I gave him one of my milspec Brownell mags to use to complete a drill he was trying to show us, The gun jammed again. At this point he performed the mortar technique to attempt to clear it and broke his stock then went into a tirade about  it.

7) He gave a long and rambling history of the AR which included many errors including that the US military adopted the AR15 as the M16 in 1957. His history also skipped the M-14 going direct from the M1 Garand to the M16.

8) We also were told at the end of the class that we as students had to pick up all the brass and place them in several buckets he had. When I mumbled out loud that he was probably going to reload our brass for himself, he heard and said, “Oh i donate all this to a local boy scout troop, they take it to be recycled”. OK fine, whatever. I doubt it but a paying customer should not have to be down on his or her knees for 30-45 mins of my class time picking up brass.

The class was an extreme disappointment. the instructor kept moving different parts of the class around and generally didn’t seem to have a grasp of what he was trying to accomplish. mind you, this guy has been in business for years. His main goal seemed to be to stroke his own ego. And the sad part is, many of the students were gladly signing up for his “Carbine 2” class offered later this year.


So how does one respond when you go to a class that is clearly not what we expect? Should I just consider this water over the dam and drop it? How can we as the consumer protect ourselves from getting sucked in by a slick website or someone promising all the right things in their ad’s.


Rob- the best recommendations are from students who’ve had a wide range of training.

John – ask other instructors who you trust to recommend someone in your area.




Last episode, you talked briefly with Grant Cunningham about carrying while on a motorcycle, and I have recently had a related topic come up – Bicycle carry.


I recently moved to a metropolitan area and landed an office job, and in an effort to keep a spare tire at bay, I’m going to take up bicycling for exercise.  Since I am in a large city, I would like to be able to carry while I’m on a bike, but my traditional IWB at 5:00 prints like a Deskjet when I’m bent over my bicycle, and clothing can ride up over it easily.  The fanny pack mentioned last episode sounds like a good idea, but does anyone else have experience with other carry methods that might work as well?  It needs to be resistant to clothing riding up over it, as well as the jostling you might expect if I take a bicycle over a curb or a busted-up sidewalk, and I would like to be able to wear reasonably light clothing while exercising.



Jake (from State Farm)


John – http://www.thewilderness.com/safepacker-concealment-holster/



Hi folks,

I just wanted to add to the conversation from the last podcast about shooting from bed.  I gave this some thought in our house.  I realized that my position in bed could have me firing at my daughter who is in line with me, 2 drywall walls away.  I have seen lots of ballistic penetration videos where this arrangement could be a real problem.  Now, will I be able to consider this alignment given the sleep inertia that Paul discussed?


Thanks for the great podcast.



Savage, MN



We got some text messages as well


A quick reporting regarding alien gear cloak tuck 3.0. Worn for 3 weeks, the metal insert began to cut the top where the leather and neoprene backing are stitched together. Relatively comfortable and had to change to metal clips as the plastic ones provided initially were not secure. Warranteed,but obviously would happen again so ordered a stealth gear. They are 45 day lead time, but I’ll send word once it’s tested etc.

TNJR (Tennessee Junior)




Afternoon crew,


Since I don’t own an AR (yet) my wife says I can have one under two conditions.

  1. Get a gun safe
  2. She wants one too

God I’m blessed 😊

I don’t know anything about gun safes other than I don’t want a cheap one that anyone can break into and I don’t want to break the bank either. Any recommendations on which brands you all like, what to look for in a quality safe etc etc would be helpful.


P.S. I need to hurry up and get this before Killary gets in office next January.


Thank you



CF: Worn an Alien Gear CloakTuck 3 almost daily for 6 months without a problem. Hmm. As for safes, I honestly believe Liberty Safes are the best value for the money: great safes and a greater company supporting them. (Full Disclosure: I’m the Liberty Safe Captain at the Gonne Shoppe. But, I’ve had a Liberty FatBoy Jr. in my basement before I started working there.)  



Regarding Richard’s shot timer question from episode 374, tell him to check out the Shotmaxx



From Jeff in Florida-

I heard you talking about using blue guns with students.  When I have a student point a blue gun at my right eye to check their sight alignment,  I make it very clear that this is an instructional exception.  In my opinion, and from my observation, the students then get it; better than they would have, the importance of muzzle awareness.


Rob- use a mirror.


Paul: Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?


Rob- I’m writing about the lives that gun owners saved in April.  Those articles will be up at Clash Daily, at Ammoland, and at my blog slow facts dot wordpress dot com.


John, tell us what’s new at your blog “only guns and money”


I have two blog posts of note that I’d like to highlight. The first was about Rev. Rob Schenk saying you can’t be pro-life and pro-gun. I disagree. The second was this morning and I confessed to being a liar. However, I lied when asked by my new internist’s medical office asst if there were any guns in the home. I said no because it was none of their business. Besides, I own firearms not guns so you could say that technically I didn’t lie.


That and more is at only guns and money dot blogspot dot com.


We would like to thank Charlie Foxtrot for writing up show notes for us. Even though you don’t hear him on the air he is certainly part of what you do hear. Look at his blog at not one more gun law dot blogspot dot com


Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast.  I’d like to thank (Troy Clopton and Greg Hopkins) for joining us today.  So for Charlie Foxtrot, Gary, Rob, John, Rachel and Susan,

(Paul, stop talking now)


Rob: Until the next time…

Gary: stay safe,

Paul: be aware,

John: and we’ll see you down the road.


(after show close) How could we have made this episode better?


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There are Minnesota Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance,  Nebraska Firearms Owners Association,   Citizens for a Safer New Jersey, New York State Rifle & Pistol Association,  Palmetto Concealed Carry, Open Carry Texas, Texas Firearms Freedom, Texas State Rifle Association. Tennessee Firearms Association, Virginia Citizens Defense League, Virginia Open Carry,  West Virginia Citizens Defense League, wisconsingunowners.org, and Wyoming Gun Owners.


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