Episode 347 – How Cold?

Full Episode Download: http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/347.mp3

Open and Personal News Segment:

News Segment 1:

News Segment 2:

News Segment 3:

Interview Segment: Guest Matt Martin of Geeks Gadgets and Guns

DGU Segment:

Email and Show Close:



“An armed society is a polite society.. and this is the Polite Society Podcast where we support and report on civilian self-defense.”

Paul: Welcome to episode 347 sponsored by the Firearms Policy Coalition recorded on September 6th 2015, I’m Paul Lathrop

Rob: I’m Rob Morse and on tonights show we will talk with Matt Martin about torture testing guns..

John: I’m John Richardson, and we’ll talk about Carlsbad California taking the first steps toward approving a shooting range.

Gary: I’m Gary Daugherty and in one of our DGU’s  a retired lobsterman may have saved his own life and lost his apartment in the process. So climb aboard.

Rob: strap in

John : and hang on!

Paul:  episode 347 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.

Show intro music.


Seg 1- Personal news from each participant (when you are done with your segment please ask the next person what has been up with them)

Rob- We moved 8 ton’s of our personal possessions to Louisiana.  The cardboard content in my home is dropping steadily day after day.  I’ve already fed and eaten alligator.  As to guns, I’ve only dry fired, but I did lay hands on all my guns and ammunition in the new house.  I have standard capacity magazines on order.

Gary – What training do you have coming up?

John- I registered for the SHOT Show this week. I want to thank Susan for the head’s up. Now I have to find a place to stay which seems harder this year than last. Hotels affiliated with the SHOT Show seem to have filled up much quicker this year. Hopefully, that will mean the SHOT Show will be bigger than ever! Other than that, the only gun-related thing I did this week was order a new t-shirt (like I don’t have enough already!). Rob will appreciate this – it was from Apex Tactical and it says, “Manufactured behind enemy lines in Los Ochos, CA”. What can I say? I just couldn’t resist. (throw to Matt)

Matt – Filming slow motion of many handguns from a Savage 1905 in .32 and a Mauser c96 through a Glock 42 and Walther CCP.

Paul – Started ordering equipment for GRPC. Final stages of planning, and starting the planning process for SHOT Show.

Paul- We’ve had Bob Mayne on the show before.  He is an instructor and podcaster over at the Handgun World Podcast.  He had brain cancer.  We are all relieved that his latest scans show him to be free of cancer.  We want to wish Bob the best of luck


Seg 2- News

We’ll start with news from Rob’s former home in Southern California. The City Council of Carlsbad California took a small step towards permitting a recreational shooting range inside city limits.  The existing gun store was included in the revised zoning plan that would include usage such businesses as an indoor shooting range.  Congratulations to the store owners and the self-defense activists who made this possible.  They had already raised funds to put an initiative on the ballot that would have revised the zoning code.  The fight against the anti-gun bigots in Carlsbad isn’t over.  The planning commission can still prohibit any existing facility by adding a requirement the existing site doesn’t meet.  Stay vigilant and politically active out there.



John – Contrast this with San Francisco which is considering a new ordinance that will force the only gun store to close. The ordinance requires a log of all gun and ammo owners sent weekly to the SFPD along with video.

-What do you do when the police break down your door and point guns at you?  What do you do if you’re a retired law enforcement officer living in Los Angeles and the local cops break down your door to grab your guns.  That is exactly what happened to Wayne Wright.  Wayne is a decorated former helicopter pilot in the U.S. Air Force, a former firefighter, and police officer.  The LA gang and gun unit grabbed Wayne’s gun collection and refused to return it.  The LA police lost their case in court.  The LA police had a judge’s order to return Wayne’s firearms.. and the police destroyed Wayne’s million dollar collection anyway.  It appears the police destroyed the guns in order to receive federal funds designed to stop gang activity.

They destroyed Wayne’s collection even after a judge ruled in an earlier case that the police must return firearms to their rightful owner, and after the then chief of police entered into a binding consent decree to change police policy.  That means the police broke the law and they knew it.

So what do you do to the police who break the law?  Wayne Wright is suing the Los Angeles gang and guns police unit under the Federal Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act, commonly referred to as RICO.  This provides extended criminal AND civil penalties for acts performed as part of an ongoing criminal organization.  The judgment should top four million dollars including attorneys fees.

Rob- Police departments have been charged and convicted under the RICO statutes before.  It is hard to stand by police when some of the agencies are corrupt and padding their numbers with false convictions so they can get government grants.  That makes it hard to tell the good cops from the bad.

John – Tom Gresham interviewed his atty regarding this. The LAPD is sending people to gun shows to find those who have legal gun collections so they could get large numbers of guns to destroy to pad their numbers.


-I wish Rachel were here for this next story.  New firearms laws went into effect in Texas this week.  Many government buildings are no longer off limits for concealed carry.  It won’t surprise any Texans, but the Austin City Hall left their old gun ban signs in place.. at least until a local human rights advocate took action.  Michael Cargill delivered a letter to the mayor and said he would sue the city if the signs stayed up.  The signs came down the next day.

Gary-  Good work, Michael Cargill.

Paul-  The new law in Texas allows carry in some government buildings.  Schools, hospitals and courthouses remain off limits to licensed concealed carriers.



-Also in Texas, a new state law allows a concealed handgun license holder to avoid arrest for accidentally bringing a pistol into an airport’s secure zone…so long as the person immediately leaves the area upon being told about the weapon.  Local law enforcement now has the option to charge or not charge the traveler.  Careless passengers moving through secure airport areas with a firearm in Texas could still be slapped with a hefty fine from the TSA. Civil penalties involving unloaded guns can reach $3,000, while a similar penalty for possessing a loaded gun can run as high as $7,500.

Rob-  Only 3000?

John – TSA doesn’t have arrest powers.

John – (TSA) Thousands standing around.



-We have some good news brought to us by a human rights activists in Alabama.  The Alabama Supreme Court ruled a state law that banned the open carry of a gun on someone else’s property was unconstitutional.  The case started when Jason Tulley wore a gun into the First Educators Credit Union in 2011.  A cop acting as a security guard asked Tulley to put his gun in his car.  Tulley did so, but received a ticket and summons two days later.   The Alabama high court overturned Tulley’s conviction.  Businesses may post their property asking gun owners not to enter, but the “own premises” law is now void.

John- The city of Jacksonville, Alabama tried to use this obscure “own premises” law to gut the state’s open carry laws.  The city attorney of Jacksonville failed because someone was willing to take them to court and stop it.


-Also from Alabama, new state laws require probate court judges to report to law enforcement when the judge commits someone for involuntary mental health treatment.   Under federal law, a person who is involuntarily committed for treatment cannot possess a firearm.  However, people who are forced to undergo treatment are able to appeal the ruling at a state level and have their rights restored.  A second law requires Alabama state judges to report all people who are found not guilty of a crime because of mental illness or due to a mental defect.

John – Our mental health system is broken.



-Let’s move over to Georgia.  A baptist church in Calhoun, Georgia started an armed self-defense class for its members.  A church member had concerns about physical security.  He collected news reports of attacks and threats on churches.  He took those concerns, and the information he collected, to the church council.  The council wanted the church to protect itself rather than hire an outside security service.  When they looked, the church council found it had good trainers and candidates in its own congregation.  They started a 22 hour long safety and training course at the church for their members.  The governing board of the church also allows members of its congregation who have their license to carry concealed on church property.

All this happened because someone raised the question of security, did their homework, and asked for an answer.  That sounds like our audience.  That sounds like something you would do.

Rob- That is how we change our schools and churches.  Our audience knows things that other people don’t know.  It is our duty to raise appropriate concerns if we care about our community.  We raise our concerns and ask for an answer.  Well done.


-A wealthy fashion designer named Kenneth Cole put up an anti-rights billboard in New York City.  The sign said  “Over 40 million Americans suffer from mental illness.  Some can access care…all can access guns.”  The American Psychiatric Association immediately criticized the advertisement.  because it incorrectly links mental illness with gun violence and the need for gun control.

Quoting the APA president, the billboard “provides the gross misimpression that people with mental illness are violent.  The vast majority of people with mental illness are not violent and most acts of violence are not committed by people with mental illness.”

The unasked question is how do we respect individual rights and treat mental illness at the same time.  How do we respect the right of self-defense and still limit crazy people from getting guns?

Rob- Whoever put up that billboard never went through a background check?  That is a tough question and politicians want to ignore it.  Mental health treatment is expensive and the issue doesn’t have a large donor base who makes political contributions.  I notice that most of our mass murderers are on anti-anxiety drugs and I want to know what side effects are too severe to put those drugs on the market.  What should we do if a drug makes one out of 10 thousand people violent?

Gary –

John – Isn’t the thing that the gun controllers say in defense of gun laws, if it saves only one life….


-Gun control isn’t about crime control.  A recent survey funded by the anti-rights Joyce Foundation  interviewed 99 inmates at Chicago’s Cook County Jail.  These inmates had illegally possessed a gun within the last six months. Almost all the criminals got their guns from people they knew and trusted.

Quoting from the Joyce study, “It is rare for offenders to buy from licensed dealers, and also rare for them to steal their guns.  The predominant sources of guns to offenders are family, acquaintances, and fellow gang members.  Criminals would only make illegal gun purchases from people they knew.  Only 3 percent of the guns used in crime were purchased directly from a gun store.  Criminals used handguns and never used modern sporting rifles.”

John- I want to emphasise that this report is from an anti-gun group who still claimed that gun control works.  The good news is that we are not the only ones reporting accurate news to the public.  You won’t see this study reported fairly on mainstream media like MSNBC or CNN, but conservative commentators are willing to talk about the success of armed self-defense.  Conservative writer Dr. Tom Sowell criticized gun control.  His article was picked up in major news outlets around the world.

Paul they are talking about straw purchases and NOTHING will stop straw purchases

John – I have read most of the study. It was a study of mostly identified gang members.


Matt – Could we not crack down on straw purchasing by prosecuting the illegal transfer after the fact that would be far more effective than the put the guns down billboards.

Rob- Legal or not?  Abuse of “stolen” gun and

John – Milwaukee report – multiple illegal transfers to felons – guy got probation.



-Guy Smith at GunFacts.info put up a new page on so called “Universal Background Checks”.  Needless to say, background checks don’t stop criminals because criminals don’t buy their guns at gun shops.  This data looks at guns used by criminals over a 7 year period.  Only 10 to 12 percent of the guns used in crimes were purchased through a pawn shop or gun store.  That means anything called a universal background check law will be 89 percent ineffective.  It won’t stop crime.. and gun bigots know it.  Such a law is designed to hurt the culture of armed self-defense, not hamper criminals.

John – UBC are flypaper laws.


-Reason magazine had another thoughtful review on gun laws.  In particular, the Reason article took the National Journal to task for their conclusion that guns cause crime.   A thorough review would determine if gun control laws changed the rate of criminal gun deaths.. or merely continued a pre-existing trend of lower crime.  Reason concluded that the right to own and carry a personal firearm for self-defense does not lead to more criminal homicide.

Rob- We hear lots of bad statistics thrown around, statements like “guns cause gun deaths.”  Yes, that is true in a narrow sense.. and lightning cases electrocution deaths.  I’ve seen studies that deliberately put justifiable self-defense in the same category as criminals who use guns.  Before I trust a study I have to see the precise question they asked and how they collected their information.  We’ve seen studies funded by anti-rights foundations that hide the truth rather than reveal it.

John – Gary, What year did Illinois get CCW? 2014

John- Most injuries or deaths with a firearm are from suicide.  Then comes gang shootings.  You or I discharging a firearm in self-defense happens much less often, though we use a firearm for self-defense more often that criminals use guns for crimes.

Gary- The man on the street in New York City doesn’t know that.  I doubt they would believe it if we told them.


Paul-  So we need to take our friends in New York City shooting.

-Detroit police chief James Craig said this about trends in crime.  “We’ve had a 1 percent uptick in homicides this year, ..but if you look at what’s happened since 2013, when I got here, (homicides are) down 14 percent.”  close quote.

Reductions in robberies and carjackings have been even steeper, with each dropping 38 percent over the past two years.  Craig credits the decreases to several factors, including citizens who legally carry guns.  Again quoting chief Craig “Detroiters are fed up.  You’ve seen the stories: A woman shoots a home invader, a man shoots an armed robber.. I believe suspects know Detroiters will protect themselves when faced with an imminent threat, and that’s had an effect on crime.”

Paul- We are lucky to have Chief James Craig in Detroit.

-Starting next year, residents of Albany, New York have to keep their guns locked up or risk up to a year in jail.  The Albany Common Council voted for a city ordinance requiring that all firearms, including rifles and shotguns, must be secured inside a locking container or box.  Penalties start at a $250 fine and grow to a year in jail.

Paul- Wasn’t the Heller case in Washington, DC about storing your guns so you couldn’t get to them?

John- It was, but after the Heller case, federal judges have refused to hear similar cases.. like the ones coming from California and New Jersey.  I guess decisions like Heller and McDonald don’t apply in those states.  It must be nice to be above the law.

Rob- The Albany City Council is not trying to control crime.  They are writing laws for anti-rights activists who promise campaign donations.  They want to drive out the self-defense culture in Albany.  That makes it easier for these politicians to retain office.

John- NY is two states – NYC and the rest of the state.

Gary –

John – you are running into the issue of Federalism.

Rob- Who pays?  Head, I get campaign cash,  Tail- the taxpayers pay

Gun Quote – From Dr. Thomas Sowell: “The key fallacy of so-called gun control laws is that such laws do not in fact control guns. They simply disarm law-abiding citizens, while people bent on violence find firearms readily available.” The quote is from one of his oldie-but-goodie columns. The link to the article is in the show notes.   

Hang on everybody, we’ll be back with our interview segment.

advertisement Concealment Solutions

Segment 3 Interviews

Matt Martin of Geeks, Gadgets, and Guns Podcast.   

#1 the first few questions are focused around the title of your show.

  1. Star Wars, Star Trek, or Firefly?
  2. Apple, Android, or Windows?
  3. AR or AK?
  4. 1911 or Striker fired?


#2 You have been doing some torture tests on YouTube, Tell us a little bit about what you have been doing.



Segment 4 DGUs

-Here is our first story of defensive gun use.  24 year old Joe Lanier has a concealed carry permit.  Joe’s mom is also a firearms instructor, and she taught all her children to defend themselves.  They need to, because Joe lives in Detroit.  Joe was working as an exterminator last week.  He stopped in traffic when a 17 year old boy tried to rob him at gunpoint.  The 17 year old demanded Joe’s sunglasses.  You can guess what happened next.  Quote “The boy tried to rob me, and I shot him. That’s what happened.  That’s why he’s in the hospital and not me.” close quote.

Firearms instructor Rick Ector runs the firearms academy of Detroit.  He writes at Legally Armed In Detroit.  Rick said “If you are old enough to (commit robbery) then you are old enough to get shot.”

Joe Lanier wasn’t hurt, but he needed to replace the windows on his car.

Woman Defends Herself and Child Against Home-Invader
Somehow, the 911 call to police didn’t work instantly, so a young mother was forced to defend herself and her child from a determined home-invader. Just after 10 am, Williams Evans finally broke into the house. The woman dropped the phone, picked up her gun, and shot the intruder. He was pronounced dead at the scene. The homeowner said she did not know Evans.

Evans’ mother said her son was at the house because the man who lives there was speaking negatively about the mother of his child. “My son was a good boy,”

Retired Lobsterman Shoots Violent Felon – May Lose His Apartment

A retired Maine lobsterman shot a man who had broken into his apartment in search of prescription drugs and money. Police arrested the wounded Christopher Wildhaber, 45, in the nearby woods after a struggle. Once treated for his shoulder wound, the criminal was jailed. Wildhaber is a violent felon with a record of domestic violence arrests. His intended victim, Harvey Lembo, 67, uses a wheelchair to get around his cramped rooms. He had just recently purchased the WWII era Russian revolver to protect himself after two prior home robberies.   

Police are still investigating, but it is unlikely the lobsterman will face any charges. However, the apartment house owner is demanding that Lembo do away with the firearm that may have saved his life – or be thrown out of his home. Firearms are prohibited in the lease agreement for – wait for it – safety reasons. We all know that Gun-Free Zones are sooooo much safer.

John – Wow! A 1895 Nagant revolver in 7.62 Nagant. A curio & relic for the win.

MM- An interesting if inefficient design.

John – And the worst trigger pull to boot.

CF – So ugly, that only a despotic regime could have made it. Kinda like Obamacare.  

John – Sorry – original design is from the Czarist days and done by a Belgian. (CF – I stand – and sit – corrected!)

Taxi Driver

A taxicab driver and a Florida couple traded “four, ten … about five, six rounds” in heavy midday Miami traffic. The driver’s customers put a gun to his head and grabbed some money. The driver pulled over and chased the couple, who opened fire. The taxi driver then went all Robert De Niro on them. The couple was taken into custody, along with two others, after an hours-long standoff outside their motel room.

Fortunately, none of the stray bullets injured anyone on the busy street.  It looks like Murphy may have had a hand in that.  Police recovered a pistol with what was described as a nasty double feed failure. Another pistol was found hidden outside the suspect’s hotel. As Miggy Gonzalez would say: Eh, it’s Miami.

Rob- A double feed occurs when a case fails to extract and a second cartridge is forced partially out of the magazine on top of the already occupied chamber. I’ve had double feeds for two reasons.  The first was from shooting cheap range reloads that were improperly sized.  The second was during an endurance tests when I refused to clean my gun.  If you want to trust your firearm then you must look after your equipment.

John – To paraphrase DeNiro, “You pointing that thing at me?”

Paul -Had training where we intentionally had a double feed and tried to clear it.

11-Year-Old Defends Himself and His 4-Year-Old Sibling

This next story was sent in by several listeners.  St Louis County Police say that an 11-year-old was forced to defend himself and his 4-year-old sister from a home-invader. The 16-year-old suspect was found in the home’s foyer, dead from a single gunshot wound to the head. The handgun used by the child had recently been purchased by his mother because of several similar robbery attempts. The children had already endured two attempted breakins earlier that morning. The parents were not home at the time.

The dead man’s 22-year-old male companion was arrested for attempted robbery. Police say evidence shows that the deceased was shot inside the home. However, some neighbors are telling the media the suspect was lured closer and hit outside the home. Other say that the child was seen waving a gun around the neighborhood earlier in the week. Police are continuing to investigate, but are standing by their initial determination.  

We certainly believe firearms should be safely secured when there are young children in the house. However, having a firearm available may have made the difference in this critical situation. It’s tricky when making the transition from child to trusted son or daughter. We’ve known 10-year-olds mature enough to be trusted with a firearm – and 40-year-olds that shouldn’t have water in their squirt-guns. The parents must decide.

Thanks for the tip, Anthony and Scott.

John- To offer some perspective, there are about 30 million children under the age of 15 living with firearms in the home.  The Centers for Disease Control reports that 69 children in that age group died from firearms accidents last year.  These children are a thousand times more likely to face a criminal invasion than be injured with a firearm.

Gary- We can cut the number of accidents even farther if we teach our children to be gun safe.

Rob- https://everytownforgunsafety.wordpress.com/

We post each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com  Please take a minute and share them with a friend.


Segment 5 Show close

Listener e-mail discussion

Peter sent us a message on our Facebook site,

Listening to episode 346 as I type this.  Gary was asking about training barrels for revolvers.  I don’t believe anybody makes anything that will not permanently alter the weapon.  I do have two ideas that might work.  As long as the gun is going to be used as a “non-firing” trainer, he could remove the firing pin, thus allowing load/unload and dry fire.  Another suggestion would be contacting the manufacturer and see about obtaining a separate cylinder that has not had the chambers cut.

Gary –


John –


Paul- Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?

Rob- I wrote an article called Get on the Right List.

We all have friends who say they don’t want to become involved because their activity could get them on a government list.  Tom Gresham asked a great question.  “What would you pay to make a SWAT team go away once they were at your front door to take your guns.”  Would you pay a thousand dollars?  It costs less than a hundred dollars a year to join the NRA, SAF, GOA, JPFO  and the Crime Prevention Research Center.  You’ll have money left over to join your state firearms group and the local political party.  Those are the groups who can constrain our government.  It is better to be on their mailing list than on the government’s list.

That article is up at Ammoland.  I also write at Clash Daily and on my blog, slow facts dot wordpress dot com.

John tell us what is new at your blog, Only Guns and Money.

A Charlotte TV station did a report on how guns from North and South Carolina are appearing in traces for crime guns in New York. The head of the ATF’s Charlotte Field Division, Wayne Dixie, said “we are the supplier of those firearms that end up in northern cities” and blamed this on “lax gun laws” in NC and SC. I disagreed. WE are not the suppliers. Thieves and criminal gangs are the suppliers of stolen guns that end up in NY. Moreover, there were 5 times as many traced guns from New York itself than either of the Carolinas.  I also noted that I saw more people prosecuted by his office in the last two years for cigarette smuggling than gun trafficking.

Rob- Dixie is a political hack.

You can find this and other posts at onlygunsandmoney DOT blogspot DOT com.

We would like to thank Charlie Foxtrot for writing up show notes for us. Even though you don’t hear him on the air he is a big part of what you get to hear. Look his blog up at not one more gun law dot blogspot dot com.  His latest article is called “Two Journalists Killed On-Air – Who’s Really to Blame?”

Paul – Before we go I want to remind everyone that this is the last episode before the anniversary of 9/11. Radical Islamists have a history of trying (and in at least one case succeeding) terrorism on the anniversary of their initial attack on the US.  Please stay vigilant out there.

Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast.  I’d like to thank Matt Martin of the Geeks, Gadgets and Guns podcast for sitting in with us today.  co-hosts, will you be with us next time?  I’m looking forward to it.  Until the next time…

Gary: stay safe,

Rob: be aware,

John: and we’ll see you down the road.

Mention advertisers, Concealment Solutions, Crusader Weaponry and NJ2AS. Firearm Safety Institute

(after show close) How could we have made this episode better?

(DO NOT READ)Look at the shooters club by Bob Mayne and Ben Branam.  For $75.00 a year, $6.25 a month, you get 24/7 access to some fantastic training and audio podcasts that you can’t get anywhere else.  Subscribing from the link in our show notes helps Bob and Ben as well as helps us here at the Polite Society Podcast.

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There are Minnesota Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance,  Nebraska Firearms Owners Association,   Citizens for a Safer New Jersey, New York State Rifle & Pistol Association,  Palmetto Concealed Carry, Open Carry Texas, Texas Firearms Freedom, Texas State Rifle Association. Tennessee Firearms Association, Virginia Citizens Defense League, Virginia Open Carry,  West Virginia Citizens Defense League, wisconsingunowners.org, and Wyoming Gun Owners.

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