Episode 344 – The ATF Thumbs Their Nose at FOIA Requests

Full Episode Download: http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/344.mp3

Pre-show announcement:

Open and Personal News Segment: 

News Segment 1:

News Segment 2:

Interview Segment 1: Guest David Cole

Interview Segment 2: Guest Paul Valone

DGU Segment:

Email and Show Close:


Rachel: Welcome to the polite society podcast presented by the Firearms Policy Coalition.  We’re recording on Sunday, August 19th, 2015.  I’m Rachel Malone.

Melody: I’m guest host Melody Lauer.  Today we talk with David Cole about sport hunting and gun confiscation.  Yes, they want your guns.

Amber: I’m guest host Amber Kunau.  We interview Paul Valone of Grass Roots North Carolina about new gun laws.  North Carolina is a better state for gun owners after the passage of House Bill 562.

John: I’m John Richardson, and we’ll talk about the Second Amendment Foundation and Calguns suing the city of San Jose.

Rob: I’m Rob Morse, and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives said it is not a government agency so it does not have to answer a freedom of information request.

Melody: Really?

Rob: Really

Melody: so climb aboard

Amber: strap in

John : and hang on!

Rachel:  episode 344 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.

Show intro music.


Seg 1- Personal gun news from each participant (when you are done with your segment please ask the next person what has been up with them)


Rob- I left my day job so I could focus on the moving to Louisiana.  I’ve been working every day for the last month.. so yesterday I took time to go shoot my glock 19.  Now I need to dry practice. I go make noise at the range when I want to feel better about my shooting. I dry practice in silence when I want to be a better shot. On Monday I was on the Lock and Load Radio program with Bill Frady.   I wrote and read news for Kenn Blanchard at Black Man with a Gun.  I’d like to thank our listeners.  We had more downloads in the last thirty day than we had in the entire first year of the podcast.  This week we had our biggest download day ever.


How was your week, John?


John- Not too much gun related news this week. As many people know, I teach financial planning as an adjunct instructor at a local university. I spent a day on campus going to meetings and getting stuff ready for my first class on Monday. Teaching these classes gives me some found spending money to use for Second Amendment related activities. So you might say the anti-gun University of North Carolina system is paying for me to go to Phoenix for GRPC – they just don’t know it!


What’s your news, Amber?


Amber-  Your gun news.  (Mention where our listeners can find your classes, your writing…)

Took my mom shooting.  She went from being afraid of guns.. to wanting to buy one.  She already has her Wisconsin CCW.

Amber: Melody, what have you been doing?


Melody- Your gun news  (cheap purses need to die?) (Mention where our listeners can find your classes, your writing…)  Limatunesrangediaries.


Melody- Rachel, you’ve been away from the show for a while, and I understand you do a lot of first aid/ first responder training too?


Rachel- I have a lot of medic friends, and a lot of friends interested in wilderness survival, including medical training. I join them for training sometimes, and I run logistics for the medical training events that they teach, so I’ve picked up a lot from them.


My news:

  • Academy 31 gun class for 15 girls, many beginners
  • bought a new gun – S&W shield
  • Michael Adam memorial service
  • Zombie Run is canceled/Battle Road ended
  • going to Pecos Run & Gun in the Sun as a range officer in September


Rachel- That wraps up our personal news segment.  We’ll be back with more news after this message.



Seg 2- News


John The  US Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives claims that the Freedom of Information Act does not apply to them.  They said the ATF was not a government agency.  Attorney David Hardy from Tucson and his client Len Savage asked for copies of the ATF’s internal documents.  Savage wanted written copies of agency guidelines describing which firearms are legal and which are prohibited.  The ATF said they don’t have to tell.


Rob- I wonder if the judge will believe that I’m not a human so I don’t owe taxes.

Rachel- walks like a human, talks like a human.


Rob Edward Rodriguez suffered a schizophrenic episode.  His wife called police.  The police declared that Edward could be a danger to himself or others.  Then the San Jose police hospitalized Mr. Rodrigues for a psychiatric evaluation.  On the suspicion of his mental illness, police also seized Misses Rodriguez  firearms.  The San Jose police later refused to return the firearms and moved to permanently confiscate them.


The Second Amendment Foundation and the Calguns Foundation filed a lawsuit in U.S. District Court on behalf of Lori Rodriguez challenging San Jose, the San Jose police department, and the officers who seized her firearms under the state’s Welfare and Institutions code.


President of the Second Amendment Foundation, Alan Gottlieb, said  “The City of San Jose or any other California jurisdiction simply cannot be allowed to seize someone’s legally-owned property because of the actions of a spouse or some other third party.  We have looked at the state code and have serious concerns about the policies and procedures in San Jose. Lori Rodriguez should get her firearms returned.”


“The San Jose city attorney acknowledged that Lori Rodriguez could go out and buy more firearms because she is not a prohibited person.  We think she should get her own firearms returned, and that this continued deprivation of her property needs to stop immediately.”


The lawsuit seeks to compel the city to return firearms to Rodriguez, to pay damages and court costs. They also seek an injunction against the city and the police department to prevent future violations.  http://www.courts.ca.gov/opinions/nonpub/H040317.PDF


Rachel Also from California, the California Governor signed a bill backed by both political parties.  The new law should prevent unfair gun seizures and defend the rights of gun owners.  The law allows a person subject to a gun violence restraining order to transfer their firearms to a licensed dealer for safekeeping, rather than turn them in to police.  The bill passed with a unanimous vote in both the California House and Senate.  The recent california gun violence restraining order bill has been called the “turn in your neighbor” law.


The bill was sponsored by Southern California Assemblywoman Melissa A. Melendez from Lake Elsinore.  She said, “Today, we witnessed a rare victory for gun owners across California.  By allowing a trustworthy alternative for gun owners to maintain possession of their firearms, we are preventing any unjustified gun grab against those who may be unfairly targeted by bogus allegations.”


Even a gun owner convicted of a felony still has the right to sell off their gun collection and state law should be modified to accept that.  Assembly Bill 950 will take effect Jan. 1, 2016


Melody Our next story comes from Marlboro, Maryland.  Barvetta Singletary works in the White House. She is a special assistant to President Barack Obama and an acting House legislative affairs liaison. Singletary was also dating a Capitol police officer.. until she took his gun and shot at him.  


You and I would have legal charges stacked to the moon.  I’m thinking attempted murder, grand theft, possession of an unregistered firearm, negligent discharge of a firearm in a public place, brandishing, reckless endangerment and assault on a police officer.


If that makes sense to you, then you’re wrong too.  Miss Barvetta Singletary was charged with a single count of attempted domestic violence.


Rob Comment-


John- Remember that this is the same white house who says that you as a private citizen act irresponsibly and only the police and government should have guns.  Yikes.


Rob Leaving southern Maryland, this next story comes from nearby Washington DC.  The District of Columbia government agreed to pay 75 thousand dollars in legal fees to attorney Alan Gura.  Gura successfully challenged the District’s prohibition on carrying firearms in public for self-defense.  


U.S. District Court Judge Frederick Scullin Junior struck down the city’s ban on concealed carry.   That was two years ago.  Judge Scullin also rejected DC’s request  to reconsider the case.  Gura originally asked the court for about 50 thousand dollars in fees, but he continued to bill as the District contested Scullin’s ruling.  


The district of columbia has already paid Gura 1.5 million dollars for the Heller case brought to the US Supreme court.


John Then there is Seattle where the City Council unanimously approved a new tax on the sale of firearms and ammunition.  The council adopted the tax that was modeled after a similar measure in Cook County, Illinois.  The tax adds $25 for each firearm sale, plus 5 cents per round.

Human-rights activists promised to sue on the grounds that the city doesn’t have the authority to impose the measures.  Sergey Solyanik, owner of a Seattle gun shop called Precise Shooter, told the council the tax would simply prompt customers to travel to nearby cities to buy guns.  He said, “The only real purpose of this legislation is to run gun stores out of Seattle.”


Rob- There is firearms law preemption in Washington State.


Rachel- Does your church have a shooting range?  The Rocky Mount United Methodist Church in Jemison, Alabama has one now. It started as an overgrown gully behind the church, but now it is the site of firearms safety training for church members and for police proficiency exercises.  The police also it to teach civilian safety classes.  


Pastor Phillip Guin said “We had quite a number of church members.. that had purchased guns, but didn’t know how to use them.  Churches say a lot about gun safety, but why not do something about it?”


It took a few years, but the safety training morphed into the Rocky Mount Hunt and Gun Club as a way to try and bring more members to the church.  Quoting the pastor again as he pointed at the red clay backstop,


“”We wanted to come up with some different ideas to help our church grow, and we thought this would be a unique ministry to offer to the community.  Really, the whole purpose of this range is to provide recreational and gun safety in a warm, loving, Christian environment.  Who’s to say that church can’t happen right here.


The police have another training course scheduled on the range in October.


comment- Paul Markel talked about Faith and the Patriot last week.  Paul said christians should not be pacifists.  Before that, we had Jeff and Robyn Street on the show.  They offer free firearms training classes at their church on Tuesday nights.


comment – this is remarkable given the UMC Gen Conf has statements backing gun control. They have also called for all UMC churches to be gun free zones.


comment (Rachel)- I have mixed feelings…


comment (Melody)– steak and shoot


comment( Rob) I was drawn to the firearms community by a local church that pulls fathers and sons out to the desert for their Desert Shoot Out.



Rachel We saw police retreat in the recent burning of Baltimore as they left “room to riot”.  We saw Ferguson, Missouri burn a year ago.  This last week, Oath keepers refuse to let Ferguson burn again.  Heavily armed and armored members of oath keepers were standing on the streets of Ferguson during the anniversary of the riots. They protected journalists and property owners.


It is legal to open-carry arms in Missouri if you have your concealed carry permit.. and the Oath Keepers did.  They also had a background as military police and first responders.  Despite their qualifications, Saint Louis County Police Chief Jon Belmar described the Oath Keepers‘ presence as “both unnecessary and inflammatory.”


Melody The Oath Keepers were not alone in being an armed presence in Ferguson.  The Ferguson Market and Liquor Store was looted twice last year.  This year the employees were armed with shotguns and handguns.  On the anniversary of the Ferguson riots, they let customers into the store, allowing only one or two at a time.  Video shows store employees standing inside the store with shotguns held at the low ready.  Later that night, there were shots fired down the street and the crowd moved toward the market. Armed employees standing outside the store directed the crowd away.  There were no shots or injuries.. and the market was open as usual the next day.


Rob A former county judge was sentenced for selling at least 60 guns without a license.  Some of the guns went south into Mexico. The U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Western District of Texas announced Friday that Judge Timothy L. Wright was sentenced to 18 months in federal prison and $15,000 in fines as part of a plea agreement.  He pled to dealing in firearms without a license and making false statements to federal agents. Judge Wright had been warned by ATF agents last September not to engage in the business of selling guns until he obtained a federal firearms license. While Wright did indeed file for an FFL, but he continued buying and reselling guns while waiting for his license to go through.  He made straw gun purchases for third party buyers.  After the judge received his FFL, he made at least three private sales to felons who were prohibited possessors.


Comment- tell me again that the government is here to help me and ignorance of the law is no excuse.


John We have some great news from Michigan.  Michigan has strong laws preempting local branches of government from writing their own firearms laws.  A Genesee County judge ruled a father can openly carry his pistol inside his daughter’s elementary school.  Circuit Judge Archie Hayman ruled in favor of Kenneth Herman and gun rights advocacy group Michigan Open Carry.  Ken Herman’s daughter goes to a local elementary school.  Herman filed a lawsuit against the School District because he was told to leave the school while trying to pick up his daughter.  Herman was openly carrying his pistol.


The school district went further and declared all of its properties to be a weapons-free zone.  The district sought to have the lawsuit dismissed.   They argued that state law allows districts to enact policies to safeguard students and, therefore, allows them to institute firearm bans.


Michigan state law allows people with concealed pistol licenses to openly carry their firearms in schools.  The judge agreed with Mister Herman and Michigan open carry saying the ability to create local weapon policies is beyond the district’s authority.


Rob Comment- A citizen can carry on school property if they have a concealed carry permit.  Concealed carriers can also open carry.  Therefore a concealed carrier can open carry as they pick up their child at school.  I see that it is legal.  Is this the way to win hearts and minds?


Comment- Open carry was necessary in order to force a lawsuit against the school’s self-imposed gun free zones.

Rob- Open carry in Louisiana.


Rachel Gun Buybacks In Boston A Failure Boston Mayor Martin Walsh started a gun buyback program when he got into office. The plan offers those who turn over guns to the police a gift card with values ranging from $100 to $200. It appears that the people of Boston are smarter than their mayor gives them credit.


So far in 2015, the number of guns turned in for a gift card is one. That contrasts with last year when 400 firearms were exchanged for gift cards. Perhaps the people of Boston understand that they need to protect themselves. This year to date there have been 136 non-fatal shootings. This is a 43% increase over the prior year.


Despite Mayor Walsh saying that the city needs to redouble its efforts on the gun buyback program, it would appear that the people of Boston recognize the effort as having no impact on the reduction of crime.


John- Alex, I’d like to buy home made pipe guns for $100


Rob – You know the song says one is the loneliest number. Let’s hope it stays that way.


For those of you in the New Jersey Area, the New Jersey Second Amendment society is collecting signatures to recall senate president Steve Sweeney.  They are working the next two weekends.  Please lend them a hand.

August 22  http://www.recallsweeney.com/recall_sweeney_signature_gathering

August 29 http://www.recallsweeney.com/recall_sweeney_signature_gathering_20150829


LInks are in our show notes


comment- and on facebook.


comment- at at NJ2AS.com


Melody Gun Quotes That leads us right into our quote this week.  “The freedom enjoyed by any society rests not on the Constitution or the bill of rights, but on the willingness of ordinary people to stand up for themselves.”  That is by author Lee Harris.


Hang on everybody, we’ll be back with our interviews of David Cole and Paul Valone.

(advertisement Concealment Solutions)


Segment 3 Interviews

David ColeDave Cole joins us to talk about his article- wake up for fudds.

A “Fudd” is a gun owner who only owns hunting guns, and believes that by sacrificing the more “tactical” style of firearms to gun control, his deer rifles and his duck guns will be left alone. If this describes you, I’d just like to ask you a question: Do any of you watch the news? Are you paying ANY attention at all?


Type “Cecil the Lion” into your search engine.  Go ahead and read some of the news stories, and better yet, read the comments. Once you’ve seen the vitriol and insanity surrounding this topic, come back here and tell me that you really believe that your hunting guns are safe. Tell me that the people making these comments believe you have any right to hunt and by extension, the guns you hunt with.


We’ve seen a huge public condemnation of female hunters like Kendal Jones and Regis Giles.  They are lightning rods for the hate of anti-hunters.



Paul Valone of Grass Roots North Carolina re house bill 562


Paul Valone is the President of Grass Roots North Carolina which is one of the most effective state-level Second Amendment organizations in the country. Paul, Welcome to the Polite Society Podcast.


  1. House Bill 562, euphemistically called the Second Amendment Affirmation Act, was recently signed into law by Gov. Pat McCrory. Could you first tell us what we as gun owners won in the bill?
  2. Now for the downside – two of the major parts of the original bill were a patient privacy component and the end to the Jim Crow-era pistol purchase permit system. Both were eliminated on amendments from Republicans. What, in your opinion, was responsible for this?
  3. Gun ban organizations such as Bloomberg’s Everytown, Gabby Gifford’s Americans for Responsible Solutions, and the Brady Campaign were dead set on the elimination of the pistol purchase permit system and claimed victory when they weren’t eliminated. Did they really get a victory or was it more the power of the sheriffs’ lobby? Can this be used against the opponents of the bill?
  4. Where do we go from here? It has been mentioned that there will be primary challenges to some of those Republicans who voted to keep the pistol purchase permit system.


Segment 4 DGUs


Carrying a firearm isn’t easy.  Consider the conflicting advice given by law enforcement officials after these three events.


Rachel 1- A Charlotte North Carolina homeowner came home to find two thieves in his house.  It was mid afternoon and the homeowner shot one of the intruders before the thieves fled.  A neighbor told police where one suspect was hiding.  The other suspect drove away.. and crashed his car due to loss of blood.  Both suspects are now in police custody.


Ho, hum, just another defensive gun use, but I’ve saved the best part.  The Charlotte Mecklenburg police announced this advice if you find an intruder.  You should never fight back. Their biggest piece of advice, do not resist or frighten the criminals.


John- Charlotte lives up to its reputation.. again!


John 2- Louisiana sheriff’s deputies responded to a domestic violence call.  They found the back door of the home smashed in and the body of 45-year-old Monica Butler Johnson in the back yard.  She had been beaten to death.  Mrs. Johnson worked through the legal system to protect herself from her estranged husband. She obtained a restraining order last month.


Ascension Parish Sheriff Jeff Wiley said this murder case shows the limits of our legal system to protect victims, and that he can not protect victims 24/7.


Quoting the sheriff- “ Get your concealed weapons permit. Learn how to safely handle a weapon, learn how to safely store a weapon, and when you’re in a situation like this shoot him in your back yard before he gets in your house. Drop him. I mean, I’m serious. Take the extremes necessary to live a life where you don’t have to worry about your kids and your life.”


Ascension Parish District Attorney Ricky Babin also released a statement.  “The State of Louisiana has a statute in place for justifiable homicide. It states that a homicide is justifiable when committed in self defense by one who reasonably believes that he is in imminent danger of losing his life or receiving great bodily harm.


Rob- That doesn’t sound like Charlotte.


Melody 3- This doesn’t sound like Alabama either, but it is.  A Birmingham police detective was pistol-whipped with his own firearm.  He was beaten until he lost consciousness.   He hesitated to use force because he didn’t want to be accused of needlessly killing an unarmed man.  Quote “I hesitated because I didn’t want to be in the media like I am right now.”  The six-year police veteran said he didn’t shoot the man who attacked him during a traffic stop because of the critical news coverage following recent police shootings.


Rob- this matters.  A patrol officer carries different equipment than a detective.  An officer might have pepper spray, a wand, a tazer, his duty weapon and maybe a backup gun.  He has the ability to escalate his use of force.  The detective isn’t equipped that way.  He is one gun and done.


Comment- the detective is equipped more like a private citizen.


comment- Those are three divergent views of justifiable self-defense.  That is why the knowledge of your local law enforcement is important.  What do the local prosecutors think.. and should you be actively involved in electing better district attorneys?


Rachel Comment- Those are extreme examples.  The officials who advocated pacifism are at odds with officers on the street.  More than 91 percent of the officers who answered a poll at Police One supported concealed carry by civilians because it reduces crime.


John Comment- this is a serious question.  You can buy firearms owner’s insurance, but some of the plans won’t pay you unless you actually shoot someone.  That means you could have to pay for the lawsuit if you only draw your weapon and don’t pull the trigger.  I bring this up because Target department stores are suing the four heroes who stopped a crazy man from stabbing a teenage girl inside a Target store.  Listener Jacob Lee brought that story to our attention.


Comment- These stories of defensive gun use are supposed to make us think.. and I have to think about insurance.


Rob Fortunes change quickly in Las Vegas.  A man and his date arrived at their apartment complex after dark.  That’s when three men approached the couple.  The men held the couple at gunpoint and demanded the woman’s purse.  The couple stepped from their car, and rather than give up the woman’s purse, the man pulled a firearm of his own.  He shot the armed thief.  The thief’s two accomplices ran from the scene.  The thief later died at a local hospital.


News crews interviewed neighbors in the apartment complex the next day.  One neighbor said she’d already visited a gun store to get a firearm of her own.


Rachel This next article is sent in by listener Scott.  A man in the Dallas, Texas area was at home with his two children.  He was startled when two men broke through the side door of the home with a pry bar.


The homeowner said he was scared until he saw two men walking through his home.  The homeowner grabbed his rifle.  quote “I stood there and shot him. And, as I shot him, his friend pushed him down on the ground and ran out.” close quote

Both thieves escaped, but the wounded thief called 911 asking for help.  Police are ready with a warrant for his arrest, when the thief is released from a local hospital.


The homeowner said, he did what came naturally.  “I was just thinking to protect my family and protect myself, and that’s what I did today.  I got my 8-month-old little boy here.”


Rob- One thief tripped his friend to make


John Marcel Dixon is 21 years old.  He pointed a handgun at an older man on the streets of Wilmington, Delaware.  Dixon threatened to kill the older man and then opened fire.  He missed.  The victim drew his licensed handgun and shot back.  Dixon fled.  The victim notified police.


Dixon soon arrived at the hospital with a gunshot wound to the leg.  He was charged with first-degree reckless endangerment, possession of a firearm by a person prohibited, and carrying a concealed deadly weapon.


We post each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com  We also have the audio verson of each individual segment for you.  Please take a minute and share them with a friend.


Rob- Before we go to e-mail, we received some feedback on our stories of defensive gun use.  A firearms instructor played our DGUs for his students.. and then asked them how they would respond if they were in the same situations.  Could they get to their firearm in the middle of the night?  Could they present their gun while driving?  Did they have a flashlight near their bed, or could they lock their bedroom door?  Had they practiced shooting in low light without their glasses?


Melody- Those questions gave me some homework.


Rachel- We’ll be back with listener e-mail after this break.




Segment 5 Show close


Listener e-mail discussion


John We received an e-mail from Liston Matthews.  We had Liston on last episode and he offered this correction.


Quote- I had one fact wrong in our interview, and want to correct the record. I mentioned that it is a felony to carry into a prohibited area in Tennessee. That is only partially correct. The felony charge applies only to government buildings, to government schools and to private schools.


It is a misdemeanor charge for carrying in other prohibited areas, with the maximum fine being $500.00.

Thanks again,



Rachel- Listener Marty Kutolow sent in this comment about the social security administration and the veterans administration labeling people as mentally defective if they don’t manage their own finances.


Marty writes- Well, I’d imagine DeNiro and Trump and a whole slew of current CCW holders in New York City don’t manage their own finances.  They all have business managers who do that mundane stuff like paying the rent.

Guess they’ll lose their gun rights.  No?


Thanks, Marty.

Comment- Laws made for the rich, and separate laws for us.


Rob- Listener Clayton sent us this message.

Hey folks, I heard y’all begging for emails so I decided to pipe up and educate you a bit.

Minnesota did drop several states from our recognized reciprocity.  We only recognize permits that include live fire in the class qualification.  We have been making large breakthroughs in pro-gun legislation. We are moving in the right direction at a pretty good pace!


We have no magazine capacity limit, no ammo purchase limit, no limit on number of firearms carried, our permit allows rifle and shotgun carry, no thumb safety requirement, no god forsaken bullet buttons, and we can even carry guns in the woods without a permit.  (It literally says “in the woods” in the statute. Ha) There are A LOT of hunters here.


Minnesota just legalized suppressors, hunting with them, and stripped the government from the ability to confiscate weapons during a declared emergency. (We didn’t even know they had that power since we have no earthquakes or hurricanes! Apparently a legislator snuck it in around May)


We stripped the requirement to notify the Capitol of intention to carry on grounds too. There is no language in our laws about open or concealed for our carry, so I like to open carry for comfort, speed, and to be a pleasantly polite ambassador to the public for responsibly armed citizens like us.


I know those are common things for Southerners but I just wanted to remind you we aren’t as Liberal as the “Twin Cities” want you to believe. We have nearly 200,000 issued permits here and it’s growing fast.

I’m proud to be an NRA member, a permit to carry instructor, and own a number of guns.


Comment- Thank you, Clayton.  Please keep working on your friends in the city so they come around.  Also, the state of Minnesota recently established reciprocity if you have a class 1 license from North Dakota.


Comment (Rachel)- Just another reminder, there are lots of ways to measure the gun-friendliness of a state


John This is from Kevin in Illinois.

I enjoy listening to you on the Polite Society Podcast.  Thank you for the contributions you make to the show and to furthering our 2A rights.


I live in Illinois as a military non-resident.  I’ve been very active attempting to get this state to allow nonresidents to obtain concealed carry licenses (CCLs).


I want to bring to your attention the administrative code changes proposed by the Illinois State Police.  Of specific interest to many of us is the redefinition of “substantially similar” that would theoretically allow residents of many other states, beyond the current four states of HI, VA, NM, and SC, to apply for a concealed carry license.  


Here’s the catch: If the resident’s home state doesn’t maintain a database of VOLUNTARY admissions into a mental health treatment facility, then the applicant must be evaluated annually by a mental health professional who certifies he or she isn’t a danger to him/herself and others and hasn’t been voluntarily admitted into a facility over the past 5 years.  


Honestly, how practical is this? I can’t imagine a mental health professional being willing to sign the dotted line unless that professional has a pre-existing relationship with the applicant.  Most applicants will never otherwise visit one over the course of a lifetime.  Furthermore, the cost to maintain an Illinois CCL will greatly exceed the $300 application fee since an annual visit to a mental health professional will now be factored into the cost as well.  And for those of us in the military, will Illinois require the mental health professional who signs the annual certification to be licensed to practice in the applicant’s state of residence?  If so, military members would need to make an annual visit “home” instead of relying upon their local Military Treatment Facility to provide this evaluation.


The proposed changes and an address to send comments were published last week in the Illinois Register.  Relevant pages are posted here: http://illinoiscarry.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=57760&p=929654



Kevin Culp in Illinois


Rachel- Comment- Thanks Kevin.  It sure sounds like the Illinois State Police are busy pleasing their political masters in Chicago.  Thank you, Kevin, for all you do.


Rob-  Is that a business opportunity.  Unless they define the professional requirements, I can go into business issuing mental health certificates for Illinois online.  They have as much meaning as a Las Vegas marriage certificate.


John- I notice a pattern here.  Paul asked for e-mail.  Then, Paul misses an episode, and we get e-mail.  We report: You decide.


Rachel- We are going to the Gun Rights Policy Conference. The conference is in Phoenix at the end of September.  We plan to live stream the event.  We’re getting help from the Second Amendment Foundation and from Ammoland.  We’ve almost collected enough money for the equipment… and someone asked what we would do if there were any funds left over.  We had two competing ideas.


One was to donate any excess money to the Second Amendment Foundation.. while Gary Daughtry proposed we use the money to build the Polite Society Podcast waterslide in Phoenix.


John- See, we have no shortage of ideas.


Rachel-  Right.  We’ll give the money to SAF, but you’re invited to send in your ideas of how we should use it.


Rachel- Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?


President Obama said the lack of new gun-control laws was his biggest frustration. Barack is too modest. He has massively larger failings than gun-control. Obama simply wants gun-control as a media distraction to his growing list of political failures.  That article is up at Clash Daily and at my blog, slow facts dot wordpress dot com.


John do you want to mention your posts at No Lawyers, Only Guns and Money?


I did a post noting that this past July was the highest July on record for NICS checks. It looks like people are seeing the pen and phone efforts of President Obama on gun control and are reacting to it.


This post and others can be found at onlygunsandmoney DOT blogspot DOT com.


John:- Melody and Amber, do you have any articles you want to mention?  Where can our listeners follow you?


Melody- “Do you want a job?” is up at Limatunes Range Diaries.

You can find it at https://limatunesrangediaries.wordpress.com/

On Facebook, look for Limatunesrangediaries.

September 19 in Johnston, Iowa


Amber: Amber Kunau on Facebook


Charlie Foxtrot usually writes our show-notes.. but hs is moving this week.  Once he get settled again, look for his blog “not one more gun law dot blogspot dot com”


Rob: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast.  I’d like to thank David Cole and Paul Valone for coming on the show for their interviews.  We have to thank Melody Lauer and Amber Kunau for joining us today as co-hosts.  John and Rachel, will you be with us next week?  I’m looking forward to it.  Next week I’ll be moving, but Paul, Susan and Gary should be back.

Melody.  So until the next time…

Rachel: stay safe.

Rob: be aware,

John: and we’ll see you down the road.


Mention advertisers, Concealment Solutions, Crusader Weaponry and NJ2AS. Firearm Safety Institute


(after show close) How could we have made this episode better?


(DO NOT READ)Look at the shooters club by Bob Mayne and Ben Branam.  For $75.00 a year, $6.25 a month, you get 24/7 access to some fantastic training and audio podcasts that you can’t get anywhere else.  Subscribing from the link in our show notes helps Bob and Ben as well as helps us here at the Polite Society Podcast.


(DO NOT READ)Join your local civil rights group like the New Jersey Second Amendment Society, Arizona Citizens Defense League, Gun Owners of California, Commonwealth Second Amendment,  Connecticut Citizens Defense League, Florida Carry, Georgia Carry, Georgia Gun Owners, Grass Roots North Carolina, Illinois Carry, Maryland Shall Issue,  Michigan Gun Owners , Michigan Open Carry, and  Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners.


There are Minnesota Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance,  Nebraska Firearms Owners Association,   Citizens for a Safer New Jersey, New York State Rifle & Pistol Association,  Palmetto Concealed Carry, Open Carry Texas, Texas Firearms Freedom, Texas State Rifle Association. Tennessee Firearms Association, Virginia Citizens Defense League, Virginia Open Carry,  West Virginia Citizens Defense League, wisconsingunowners.org, and Wyoming Gun Owners.


For our Canadian listeners, and their supporters, join the Canadian Shooting Sports Association and the Canadian National Firearms Association.  If YOUR state or local organization isn’t read each episode, then send us an email and we’ll add them!


(DO NOT READ)The Polite Society download app is out on Amazon for Android and the I-phone app is in I-tunes and it is called Podcast Box.  They are located by our old name, Politics and guns.  Hot links are in our show notes.