Episode 302 – SHOT Show Pre-Show

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“An armed society is a polite society.. and this is the Polite Society Podcast where we support and report on civilian self-defense.”
Paul: Welcome to the polite society podcast presented by the Firearms Policy Coalition recorded live on Sunday, January 18th, 2015. I’m Paul Lathrop
Rob- I’m Rob Morse and on tonights show we’ll talk about shooting a police chief.. three times, and not being charged with a crime.
John: I’m John Richardson, and we’ll talk about a Pennsylvania lawmaker who wants to outlaw appleseed targets.
Gary D: I’m Gary Daugherty we also have not one, not two, but three stories of defensive gun use from the gun-free paradise of New Jersey.. so climb aboard
John: strap in
Rob: and hang on!
Paul:  Episode 302 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.
Show intro music.

Seg 1- Personal news from each participant
Paul – Stories of traveling to SHOT Show. Trucking issues caused me to get home a day late Covered a TON of ground on Friday and Saturday. Doing the arming and disarming dance. Reiterating PLEASE if you have a pro-gun or NRA advertisement on your car drive POLITELY!

John – I flew out this morning for Las Vegas and the SHOT Show. I’m not great at getting up at 5:30 in the morning but one does what one must. I’m excited to be out here in Las Vegas and am really looking forward to it. The last SHOT Show I attended was in Dallas in 1996 when it was a third its size.

Rob- chores before SHOT show.  Dave Workman posted an article about demonstrating for political change while wearing a rifle on your back.  I commented that the protesters let the media portray them as irresponsible.  The uninformed voter now thinks gun owners should not be trusted.  Sure enough, a guy answered that he didn’t care what anyone thought, he could protest and lobby the legislature carrying a rifle because that was his right.  With friends like him, it won’t be a right for long.  I read today that the Washington Senate banned open carry guns in public chambers.  Good going, guys.  Please go help Bloomberg, but stay away from the right of self-defense.

A little closer to home, I finally got a call from my county board of supervisor’s office.  We had a rapist who was recently caught after being arrested for three earlier rapes.  I called the District Attorney’s office to find out why he was out on the street.  The DA’s office didn’t call me back.  Then I called the public affairs officer at the DA’s office to ask why I didn’t get a call back.  Then I called the county board of supervisors and spoke to my supervisor’s office.  They finally called me back.  We’ll see what they tell me after they contact the District Attorney.


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Seg 2- News

1- Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation said they had no plans to file charges after the Sentinel police chief was shot three times.  The chief was conducting a raid with two other officers on a location they thought sent in a bomb threat against a Head Start office. The officers conducted a no-knock raid on the home, and the homeowner shot at police.  Once he recognized law enforcement, the homeowner surrendered.  The chief was shot three times in the chest and wounded once in the arm.  Fortunately, Chief Louis Ross was wearing a ballistic vest and is recovering from his wounded arm.

Rob- The chief AND the homeowner are lucky to be alive.

2- A Pennsylvania “lawmaker” has once more demonstrated why “political progressives” should never be trusted with elected office.  Representative Thaddeus Kirkland plans on introducing a bill that “prohibits the use of human silhouette targets at shooting ranges across the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.”  Naturally, he plans to include an exception for police officers. Whether he intends to also mandate targets they use be accompanied with the words “Hands Up, Don’t Shoot!” is left unstated.

3- The European Jewish Association represents Jewish communities across Europe.  They said jews are afraid to shop at kosher markets and attend synagogue due to violent attacks.  Quote “The Paris attacks, as well as the many challenges and threats which have been presented to the European Jewish community in recent years, have revealed the urgent need to stop talking and start acting.  We hereby ask that gun licensing laws are reviewed with immediate effect to allow designated people in the Jewish communities and institutions to own weapons for the essential protection of their communities, as well as receiving the necessary training to protect their members from potential terror attacks.”  They don’t see it as an individual right, but it is a start.

4- Toy weapons will be banned at the 2015 Central Pennsylvania Festival of the Arts.  Executive Director Rick Bryant said the board of directors voted unanimously in November to ban children from making and selling toy weapons and historic facsimiles like rubber-band guns, pop guns, swords, Nerf weapons, light sabers and any items that launch projectiles.  In the past, children have made and sold such things as bows and arrows and shields, but those items, too, will be banned this year.  Quote “We live in especially violent times.  Banning the sale of weapons at the Children and Youth Sidewalk Sale might not be a giant step in making our society less violent, but it’s a step that we can take.”

Rob- Slingshots and slings?  Is the Central Pennsylvania Festival of the Arts sponsored with ANY public money?

5- The Center for Disease Control used to be a respected government agency.  Like all government activities, it has become more political over time.  The CDCs credibility took a hit after it provided poor advice during the Ebola outbreak.  Doctors for gun ownership cites several other actions by the CDC that display the agencies anti-gun bias.  This is why Congress took away the CDC’s gun research funding.

  1. In 1995 the CDC funded a newsletter put out by the Trauma Foundation, a San Francisco gun control lobby. The newsletter called for readers to “organize a picket at gun manufacturing sites” and to “work for campaign finance reform to weaken the gun lobby’s political clout.” This was a blatant abuse of taxpayer money.
  2. In 1989 top CDC official Dr. P. W. O’Carroll said, on record, “We’re going to systematically build a case that owning firearms causes deaths. We’re doing the most we can do, given the political realities.” Scientific research should be dedicated to learning the truth, not pushing a political agenda.
  3. In a Winter 1993 publication Public Health Policy for Preventing Violence, CDC officials recommend two strategies for preventing firearm injuries: allowing only police, guards, and the military to have guns, or the outright prohibition of gun ownership.
  4. In a 1994 Washington Post article, CDC official Dr. Mark Rosenberg was quoted as wanting his agency to create a public perception of firearms as “dirty, deadly – and banned.”

6- Bloomberg’s front group asked Kroger supermarkets to ban guns.  That is cold comfort to the customers robbed at gunpoint in a Kroger parking lot in Norcross, Georgia.  An armed robber pointed a handgun at the head of a Kroger customer and demanded his valuables.  The thief took the victim’s phone, wallet and cash. The suspect also shot at the victim, but missed.  A shell casing was recovered in the Kroger parking lot.  Investigators are looking for two or three suspects, including at least one man and one woman. Witnesses said the suspects are all black and in their 20’s.

Near Atlanta, Georgia, a man was carjacked in a Kroger parking lot.  Two armed men approached the driver as he returned to his car.  They demanded his keys, and the victim complied.  The victim was shot several times as he began walking back toward the entrance of the store.  He was taken to Grady Memorial Hospital in stable condition.  Police arrested and charged a 17 year old and 20 year with the crime.  Both men had a police record.

Rob- Criminals not obeying another gun free zone?

7- Michigan Governor Rick Snyder rejected a pair of pro-gun bills that would have done away with Michigan’s unique system of county gun boards.  In rejecting the bills, the Governor echoed concerns voiced by gun control groups over domestic violence issues. Two measures, Senate Bills 789 and 790, enacted in together would have mandated an end to the review board process. The boards function would have been replaced by county clerks.  They would issue concealed carry licenses long as the applicant met all requirements and passes a background check from the State Police.

John- This is revenge by the governor who did not get the legislation HE wanted passed this session.  Michigan listeners need to call the Governor and explain his mistake.

8- The Sandy Hook Commission set up by Governor Malloy has spent two years trying to come up with a plan to prevent another mass murder. Two Years!! Here’s the plan:

Specifically, it would prohibit both the sale and possession of any firearm capable of holding 10 rounds of more without the provision to grandfather guns that are currently registered under Connecticut’s already strict Assault Weapons Ban. This would effect a de facto ban on many guns that escaped registration after owners changed cosmetic features of their firearms. Law enforcement and military would be exempt from this ban.

0-Gary– Two years and you say you consulted experts!?! I call BS, if you talk to any expert they will tell you the bad guy stops killing when a good guy(girl) shows up with a gun. Get your head out of the sand, you can’t make laws in in your fantasies. Killing is illegal! Does any logical thinking human being think that making killing with a gun that holds more than 10 bullets more illegal will stop anybody? Of course not! Ok, let’s talk about reloading. They say people will be able to escape the killer while they are reloading. WHY! are you letting them get to the reload? As soon as bad things start happening have everything in place to try to stop it. NOW! Speaking of trying to stop it why are you going to hinder the person that is willing to train and put themselves on the line to protect children and others. You are going to force them to reload every 10 rounds?? If we are talking fantasy wouldn’t you want someone that is defending the lives of children to have a magic TV gun that never runs out of bullets? Come on Sandy Hook Advisory Commission(not one firearms expert), your report is due in three weeks, get together with real experts and come up with real solutions. I’ll give you a list to get you started; Massad Ayoob, Kathy Jackson and John Lott Jr. These people have spent their lives looking for answers.

Rob- These measures would not have stopped the murderer who beat, stabbed, shot and ran over students at UC Santa Barbara.  I’m calling them lying politicians.

9- U.S. Representative Morgan Griffith introduced a bill.  House Resolution 131 addresses the interstate transportation of firearms and ammunition for law-abiding gun owners.  It revises the Firearms Owners Protection Act that was passed 25 years ago. Specifically, 131 states that transportation of both firearms and ammunition is federally protected, as well as expand the protections afforded to travelers to include staying in temporary lodging overnight, stopping for food, fuel, vehicle maintenance, an emergency, medical treatment, and any other activity incidental to the trip. Additionally, the bill would place the burden of proof clearly on the state to show that the traveler failed to comply with the law.

Rob comment- I supported the bill in Popvox and sent a letter to my representative Darrell Issa.  I asked him to support and amend the bill.  I’d like law enforcement officers and judges to be personally liable for breaking the federal law.  I’d also like the law to cover airline travelers.

10- Do you think people would continue to get driver’s licenses if the license required a 10 day course?  What about 10 weeks?  Requiring a course is a way to tax the activity and to get less of it.  The same is true of gun owners.  Here is some recent proof.  The number of concealed carry permits issued last year in El Paso County, Texas doubled.  Why would that be?  Texas reduced the number of hours required to receive a Concealed Handgun Licenses.  The requirement fell from 10 hours to 6 hours plus range time.

We should expect the same result in Ohio which recently reduced the amount of training it requires.

Rob- That brings up an interesting comment.  You could argue for balancing test.  More concealed carry holders make mistakes with their firearms.  More concealed carry holders will also defend themselves and protect their families.  Which would we see in the news?

You could also argue that a balancing test is unfair and inappropriate.  You do not balance a civil right versus the convenience of the government.

11- Here is some homework for our listeners in Wyoming.  State representative Allen introduced the Wyoming Repeal Gun Free Zones Act. His bill, House Bill 114, would allow legal gun owners who could carry in public, to carry in public buildings building such as government offices, schools, universities and colleges across the state.   The proposed legislation would not apply to courthouses and would continue to allow private property owners to restrict concealed carry on their grounds.  That means churches and private schools could post their property as off limits to concealed carry holders.  Similar legislation was passed by the Wyoming House of Representatives in 2014. The bill failed in a Senate committee.
House leadership has yet to assign HB114 to a committee.
Wyoming gun owners, call your legislator!

12- Arizona has some bills in the works that our listeners should support.  House bill 2320 allows concealed carry license holders to remain armed when they enter state government and local government buildings.  The exception is if security guards and metal detectors are in place to screen every person entering for weapons.

House bill 2431 would establish an interstate “compact” that restricts member states from enacting firearms transfer requirements different than existing federal law.  Compacts between states supersede individual state law.  An example of an interstate compact is the uniform recognition of drivers’ licenses.  Assuming HB 2431 is enacted in Arizona and at least one other state becomes a party to the compact, a subsequent state law, or even a ballot measure, cannot override it.
Arizona gun owners, call your legislator!

Gun Quotes- “Peace is neither won nor maintained by the unarmed.”  Author L. Neil Smith.
We’ll be back with our defensive gun use segment.
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Segment 4 DGUs
1- We have several stories of defensive gun use from New Jersey this week.  Our first is from Newark.  46 year old Mark Robinson walked into the Newark deli late in the evening and pointed a gun at the owner.  The deli owner quickly drew his own handgun and shot Robinson. Robinson fell to the floor and his two accomplices ran out of the store.  Robinson was taken to University Hospital and pronounced as dead.  The deli owner ran the same store for over a decade.  He had been robbed before.

Robinson’s gun was recovered at the scene.  Robinson had a criminal record that included arrests for drugs, weapons and resisting arrest.  Chief of detectives for the Essex County Prosecutor’s Office they were still investigating whether anyone else was involved with the robbery.  Police did not expect to charge the deli owner.

2- Also in Newark, two men rushed into a variety store and ordered the customers down onto the floor. The robbers threatening to shoot the customers if the owner did not give them the money from the till.  One robber held an AK-47 and fired a shot.  The female store owner grabbed the handgun she keeps behind the counter and fired at the gunman.  She hit him in the leg.  23-year-old Durell Hearn limped from the store.  His partner in crime drove him to the hospital.  Hearn and fifty year old Arthur Price were arrested at University Hospital.  They are charged with robbery, possession of a weapon for an unlawful purpose, unlawful possession of a weapon and conspiracy.  Police did not expect to charge the variety store owner.

3- A New Jersey homeowner in Cape May heard someone trying to break into his home.  The homeowner called police.  Before police could arrive, the robber broke through a glass door and entered the home.  The homeowner shot the intruder. 21 year old James Weaver was taken to AtlantiCare Regional Medical Center where he died.  The homeowner was transported to Cape Regional Medical Center where he was treated and released.  Police did not expect to charge the homeowner.

4- A citizen flagged down a policeman patrolling the north end of Hartford, Connecticut.  They said two men tried to rob a couple in a nearby building.  The robbers were armed with a rifle.  The female robbery victim took a handgun from her purse and shot one of the robbers in the arm.  At the same time police were being flagged down, one of the robbers showed up at St. Francis Hospital and Medical Center asking to be treated for a gunshot wound to his arm.  The news article doesn’t say if the suspect was arrested at the hospital and charged with a crime.  The robbery victim had her pistol permit.  The rifle turned out to be a BB gun.

5- Sometimes you just can’t wait for the police to arrive.   Ephrata, Pennsylvania police had received calls that two men were entering cars in the area.  The call came in at 2:30 AM.  A few minutes later, a woman saw someone trying to break into her car.  She walked up, drew her firearm and held the thief at gunpoint.  Police arrested 22 year old Robert LaFleur of Denver township.  The police had to Taser LaFleur to take him into custody.  The police then went to La Fleur’s car and attested 21 year old Colton Lynch.  The car contained items stolen from nearby vehicles.  The car itself was stolen from a nearby town.  Police charged LaFleur and Lynch with receiving stolen property and loitering and prowling at night.

6- Four armed men wearing masks drove up to a store in a Toyota Sequoia.  They poured into Ryan’s Convenience Store in Tulsa, Oklahoma.  The thieves knew the routine and demanded money.  This had worked for them in other robberies.  Not this time.  The store clerk was armed this time.  He shot two of the thieves and the other two fled on foot. 27 year old Brian Powell died at the scene.  He was on probation after a conviction for larceny. 16 year old Kevin Dobbs was taken by ambulance to Saint John Medical Center where he died.  Police arrested 20 year-old Lakeit Thompson. Thompson was held on six counts of robbery with a firearm, as well as two counts of attempted robbery, two counts of felony murder and a number of traffic complaints.  Thompson has been connected by police to eight separate robberies since Dec. 7th.  The circumstances behind each robbery were the same — multiple suspects armed with weapons quickly entered a store and left with money.

Police arrested 17-year-old George Williamson.  He was jailed on two counts of second-degree murder, one count of attempted robbery and two counts of armed robbery.  Williamson was connected to three other robberies.  The Toyota Sequoia was abandoned in the parking lot after the shootings.

We post each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com  Please take a minute and share them with a friend.

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Segment 5 Show close
Listener e-mail discussion
This is an e-mail from Nate.  He says-

I’m a relatively new listener, and I want to thank y’all for your efforts. Your show is a delight to listen to and you’re serving a valuable and important mission.  I listened recently as you reported that a veteran in NY had his firearms confiscated due to being reported as suffering from insomnia depression.

Here’s my question:

While he (or others) suffer these unjust removals of our right to self-defense and right to bear arms, would it be legal for his spouse to purchase a firearm and have it in the home? At least, if they’re trained, one member of the household would then be able to defend the home if needed, right?

And in that scenario, what would be the legal consequences if during a genuine home invasion he grabbed his wife’s firearm and shot a person in self-defense?

Thanks for your insights.

No guns in the home.
Our second listener e-mail is from Ken in Arizona

Hi, Paul. I see your comment about the podcasts taking forever to get out. How about cutting back to once a week? Most of the ones I download, especially the lengthy ones (an hour or more), like PSP, come out only once a week. Some are once a month! Better to have your great show less frequently than potentially lose it due to burnout. It’s one of my top 2 or 3, and I have a list of nearly 100 (I gave up TV so I have time for more important things now).
Phoenix, AZ
Free State of America
PS Just make sure you schedule it so Rachel is there. She adds so much to the Old Boys’ Club.

Ken also wrote this in
Hi, guys.
My other main interest, other than 2A, is railroads, any size, any scale.  Model Rail Radio is having their 100th show this weekend, 1/17/15, and folks are travelling to San Jose from all over the Country to Tom’s house for the recording. A piece of information surfaced this week that shocked me.
One of the travellers, a guy from Massachusetts, upon boarding the Amtrak train in San Diego for the trip to the Bay Area, was visited by “Amtrak police”, who searched his room and his bags! Can they do this? Can they do this in America? It has the feel of 1938 Germany or 1980 USSR. They said it was a random search, similar to the random searches at the airport. I must be missing something here, as this doesn’t sound anything like the America I grew up in, or the America millions have fought and died to protect, or the America land of the Free and home of the Brave they keep telling us about.

I was planning a train trip, now that I’m retired, but now, I think I’ll drive. Scary stuff!
Ken in Phoenix, AZ
Ken emailed this one this morning (and we are thinking about adding him to the listener feedback hall of fame)
In a comment section of a news story this week, (about the Charlie killings in Paris), I made the remark that I bet every one of those poor folks who were shot in that office wished they  were armed that day.

I got a reply, asking me to name just one time an armed citizen stopped a criminal or act of terror by carrying a gun. “It just doesn’t happen”, he said. “Not one documented example.” He had many “thumbs up” in agreement with him.

I referred him to the email newsletter from “Guns Save Lives”. It’s been a few days, but so far, no further reply from him, so I don’t know if he took a look or not.

His opinion would be surprising and not to be believed, if not for the fact that I would have said the same thing as he, just about 14 months ago, before I broke away from the Mainstream Media, found differing viewpoints with compelling facts to back them up, and started educating myself on the internet to what’s really happening out there.

I hope I’m not unusual in my viewing habits, and there are others waking up to reality. But it took me 6 decades and the free time that retirement can bring to do so. There’s a huge barrier to Truth, Justice, and The American Way out there, and it’s called Mainstream Media. It’s pervasive and powerful, with rich and powerful benefactors. We have a long, hard struggle ahead of us to right this ship.

Carry on.

They were saved by a good person with a gun.


Jeff sent in this link and asked us to comment on it.


Rob- This is like carrying a blue gun because you’re not comfortable with the thought of protecting your life.  I assume the site is a joke.  It should be.

(DO NOT READ)The Polite Society download app is out on Amazon for Android and the I-phone app is in I-tunes and it is called Podcast Box.  They are located by our old name, Politics and guns.  Hot links are in our show notes.

Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?

Rob- I’d like to say thank you.  Someone on Facebook linked to my article about criminals not obeying Washington State Initiative 594.  Whoever it was, they sent me 2500 views.  This week, I said that some gun owners don’t deserve the legal right to own guns.  These gun owners couldn’t be bothered to go to the polls to defend their rights, so too bad if they lose them.  The post is called “Do gun owners deserve to keep their guns?”  It is up at Clash Daily, at Ammoland and at my SlowFacts blog.

Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast.  I’d like to thank (Guests) for joining us today.  co-hosts, will you be with us next time?  I’m looking forward to it.  Until the next time…
Gary: stay safe,
Rob: be aware,
John: and we’ll see you down the road.

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