Episode 268 – Kids and Guns

“An armed society is a polite society.. and this is the Polite Society Podcast where we support and report on civilian self-defense.”
Rachel: Welcome to the polite society podcast recorded live on Wednesday, September 10th, 2014. I’m Rachel Malone
John: I’m John Richardson, and we’ll talk about self-defense news
Rob: I’m Rob Morse and we have our weekly stories of defensive gun use. so climb aboard
John: strap in
Rachel : and hang on! Episode 268 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.
Show intro music.

Seg 1- Personal news from each participant

Rachel- You won’t believe it. I can’t believe it actually happened….but it’s true, I finally got those parts put on my gun, thanks to a great friend’s help. My AR now has a low-profile gas block, free-float handguard, BattleComp compensator, EOTech, and a couple of Magpul add-ons. Now I really can’t wait to go out and shoot the thing.

John – Since the weekend, it has been work, work, work. I did get time this afternoon to drop into my local surplus store and now have a great first aid kit. All I need to make it a blowout kit is a chest seal.

Rob- I had dry practice and a group training session. I’ll take a group to their first steel shoot this Saturday. I’m already excited that the Gun Rights Policy Conference is two weeks away. I’ve already had a friend say he can’t go due to financial problems.

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Seg 2- NewsNews_Partner_white

Rachel- Arizona is a gun friendly state.  Unfortunately this is the political season and there is a gun grabber in every crowd.. even in the Arizona legislature.   Democratic Representative Victoria Steele plans to introduce a bill to making it illegal to transfer an automatic firearm to anyone under the age of 16, including at a gun range.  There is never a shortage of politicians who want to limit your access to firearms.  Let me apologize to our democrat listeners.  I know these politicians don’t speak for you.

John Comment- So kids would be confined to shooting crew served weapons that sit on a tripod?  That doesn’t make sense.

John – We reported that a California District Court judge found aspects of the 10 day waiting period unconstitutional.  A similar case has been filed in Georgia.  The organization  Georgia Carry took a county sheriff to court over a county imposed mandatory 10-day waiting period on sales of used guns.  The suit names Sheriff Richard Roundtree as a defendant and is seeking the county’s ordinance on selling used weapons be overturned. The county ordinance places a mandatory 10-day hold on used firearms before a dealer can resell them. The gun rights group maintains this violates Georgia’s preemption law that prohibits counties and cities from regulating the sale of firearms.  10 days might once have been a reasonable time to report and detect a stolen firearm.  Now it takes seconds with electronic communications.

Rachel Comment- I hope the county pays up.

Rob – Here is a city that is getting an education in human rights.  The city spends money on parades and public events.  It spends money on security provided by city employees.  The city spends taxpayer money on sanitation services provided by city employees for these special events.  The city sets up public address systems.  So there you are as a member of the  public at.. say the fourth of July Celebration in a city park.. and the city says you have to leave your right of free speech at home.  The Idaho constitution protects the first amendment for speech and assembly.  The Idaho constitution also protects the right to bear arms in public.  That is why the Idaho Second Amendment Alliance is suing the city of Coeur d’Alene.  Fortunately Coeur d’Alene City Councilman Steve Adams has made Coeur d’Alene’s local ordinance – banning all weapons at parades and public assemblies – an issue since March of this year.  Councilman Adams again asked the council to allow people attending a local parade or assembly to carry firearms.

The Idaho Second Amendment Alliance asks firearms owners to attend the city council meetings in Emmett, Fruitland, Lewiston and Mountain Home as well.

John Comment- we asked you nicely, and since that didn’t work, here is a lawsuit you get to explain  to the voters.

rachel – We’ve heard anti- gun groups advocate making a panicked phone call to the police every time they see a firearm in public.  That may now land someone in jail for lying to the police.  21 year old John Crawford called police and said a man was waving a rifle around inside a Wal-Mart store.  Crawford said the man was pointing the rifle at children and threatening them.  Crawford said the gunman had shot people and was reloading to shoot again.  Police arrived and shot the gunman.

Video records indicate the shopper was carrying a pellet rifle he was buying at Wal-Mart.    The shopper was talking with his girlfriend at the time and was in a calm state of mind.   Now the witness, John Crawford is changing his story and says the shopper was never a danger to anyone.  Before he was shot, the shopper told the police  the firearm was not real.  Investigation showed the air-rifle was unloaded and the shopper did not have any pellets for it.  All of this was captured on security video.  All of Crawford’s statements are recorded on the 911 call.  The investigation brings Crawford’s actions as well as the actions of local police into question.  Local police turned the investigation over to the Ohio Attorney General.  A grand jury convenes on September 22.

john – Turnabout is fair play, and also funny.  The corporate management of Panera Bread Cafes asked gun owners to avoid their restaurant while carrying.  In response, a shooting range posted a sign asking patrons not to bring their full carb loaded automatically glycemic Panera bread into their range.

Rachel Comment- works for me.  I can avoid Panera.

Rob Comment- I remember Panera Bread.  An Omaha, Nebraska Panera Bread store was robbed and the armed robber forced the disarmed store employees to huddle in a bathroom until he left.

Rachel comment- Connecticut Senator Richard Blumenthal made a public statement supporting Panera’s no gun request, Quote “Another company does the right thing.  Panera Bread asks customers to leave guns at home.”

John – Comment – that would be the same Sen. Blumenthal that lied about his service in Vietnam.

rob – Here is another case of turnabout.  This time the police are claiming that their ignorance of the law justifies a false arrest.  We told you about the Vice Principal at a Bakersfield junior high who was arrested for bringing a firearm on campus.  The police forgot to check that the Vice Principal had a concealed carry license when he brought his licensed firearm with him in his backpack on campus.  Now the police are being sued for false arrest.

Rachel- Comment- The cops are saying the law is too complicated to understand?

Rob- Comment- Yep, that is their defense.

John- Comment- These are the same cops always say “tell it to the judge”.  The vice principal will do exactly that, and the cops should lose big time.

Rob- Comment- I wish I were on that jury.

rachel – There appears to be a double standard for teacher’s misconduct in California.  In the previous example, the teacher did not break the law, but was put on administrative leave.  Here is an example of a teacher threatening students with lethal harm and her union was successful in keeping her on the job.  Consider what your sheriff would do if you said things like California teacher Krista Hodges.  Quote, “I already wanna stab some kids.  Is that bad?  So happy to be done with school for ten days, but especially to be away from the ones who truly try my patience and make my trigger finger itchy.”  I wonder why the teachers union protected this teacher but not the vice principal?

Rob- Comment- They were blinded by their anti-gun ideology.

John- comment- you or I would be in jail if we said thing like that online.

john – The California legislature passed bills requiring that air-rifles and toy guns have barrels with a bright orange muzzle.  That bill has not been signed into law, but police already found drug gangs with real firearms painted to look like a child’s toy.  The dangerously naive thinking of the proposed law is children are at risk once criminals paint their firearms to look like toys.

Rachel- comment- Politicians have never stopped grabbing guns simply because their laws don’t work.

rob – Hours ago, the Missouri Senate overrode Democrat Governor Jay Nixon’s veto of a state firearms preemption bill.  The pre-emption bill was strongly opposed by advocates of local firearms regulation like Kansas City Mayor Sly James, Senate Minority Leader Democrat Jolie Justus, and Saint Louis Mayor Democrat Francis Slay.  The vote in the senate was 23 to 8, and the bill is expected to easily pass in the state assembly.   A carry permit in Missouri already allows the licensee to carry concealed or open.  This bill also reduces the age requirement for a conceal carry permit to 19 from 21 and allows specially trained teachers to carry concealed guns in public schools.


rachel – New York City is buying an acoustic sensor system to locate gunfire in the city.  This reduces police response time after shots are fired on the street.  The system only covers a fraction of the five boroughs.  The city hopes to have the system operating by early 2015.  The police commissioner and mayor said the system could help police reduce the rising number of public shootings.

John- Comment- These are the same city officials who disarm the citizens and make them helpless.

Rachel- comment- Yep, no concealed carry.

Rob- comment- not even a pocket knife.  New York City is officially a weapons free area.

Rachel- comment- their gun-free zone is broken.

john – Now this is a gun buyback I can support.  Ohio Carry set up tables near a gun buy-back scheduled by the Cleveland Police.  The police offered gift certificates and tickets to a minor league hockey team.  Ohio Carry offered cash. Quote “We saved about 100 guns. Anything worth saving was saved. I would say less than 10 guns of actual value made it through us to get turned in to police. If the guns weren’t worth anything, we directed them over to the police to at least get something for them. And we did encounter a couple with scratched off serial numbers that we immediately directed to the police.”

Rob- comment- Every gun that we keep guns from police buy-backs, a gun grabber sheds a tear.

John – comment – It also goes to show criminals can use gun buybacks to ditch hot guns anonymously.

rob – It worked in California, so now they gun-grabbers are trying it in Oregon.  The first hearing on banning lead ammunition is scheduled for September 16.  The Oregon House Interim Committee On Agriculture and Natural Resources will hold an “informational meeting” on lead ammo legislation.  Governor Kitzhaber behind the lead ammo ban.  It’s unclear if this legislation will start as a ban on lead ammo for hunting, or a ban on lead ammo altogether. This is a political effort, not an environmental one, so I’d ask Oregon firearms owners to become active now.  This first hearing is a political setup since it is open to the public but only invited testimony is allowed.

John- comment- the name for this is rationalization.

rachel –  The Bloomberg group Moms Demand Attention has told Kroger Supermarkets to ban firearms, or else their billionaire funder will take out advertisements against the supermarket.  They made that press release during the same week when 100 teens went on a rampage in a shopping mall and in a Kroger market.  They knocked three people unconscious and stomped and kicked one of the unconscious victims.  The store was in Memphis, Tennessee

Rob- comment- It’s called Mogadishu on the Mississippi for a reason!

john – Wait, friends, there is more.  The media outlet MSNBC ran a poll asking its viewers if Kroger shoppers should be allowed to carry handguns in the store.  83 percent of the respondents said yes.  Only one person in six said citizens bearing arms could threaten public safety.

Rachel- comment- I doubt that was the answer they expected.

Rob- comment- I bet they won’t ask that question again.

rob – The US Department of Justice is hampering an the legal investigation lead by.. the US Department of Justice.  Senior officials at the DOJ barred and delayed the inspector general from access to documents investigating Operation Fast and Furious.  The IG said “The FBI and some other department components … have refused our requests for various types of documents. As a result, a number of our reviews have been significantly impeded.”  The DOJ Inspector General Michael Horowitz testified to the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform.  Operation Fast and Furious was one of the  DOJ programs that ran guns to Mexican drug cartels.  Those firearms were then used to kill mexican citizens and US border patrol agents.

rachel – Firearms sales reached a phenomenal record last year.  This year they have dropped back to the still unbelievable rates of 2012.  The National Shooting Sports Federation released its  August 2014 adjusted National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) figure of 989,337 per month.  That is the third highest August on record for the 16-year-old system, even with a decrease of 2.7 percent compared to the August 2013 NSSF-adjusted NICS figure of 1,016,559.  For comparison, the unadjusted August 2014 NICS figure of 1,538,347 reflects a 9.2 percent increase from the unadjusted NICS figure of 1,408,468 in August 2013. The adjusted NICS data were derived by subtracting out NICS purpose code permit checks used by several states such as Connecticut, Illinois, and Utah for CCW permit application checks as well as checks on active CCW permit databases.

John- comment- Gun culture 2.0 is alive and growing.

Rachel- comment- I’d heard that gun sales were down, but I didn’t believe it because I still couldn’t find 22 caliber ammunition on the shelves.

Rob- comment- I like the way you think.  One observation on store shelves is worth a stack of statistics.

john – Gun culture 2.0 is not confined to the United States.  A report from Vienna  reveals that applications for gun permits in the Austrian capital are growing and there are now 85,000 registered weapons in the city. A local woman said she bought a gun after several of her neighbours had been the victims of crime. In Austria, gun laws are much less strict than in the United Kingdom.  Many weapons that require a full licence from the police can be purchased over the counter in Austria, such as pump-action shotguns and repeating rifles.  Only weapons like handguns and semi-automatic rifles require a licence, and there were 460 new applications last year.

rob- A New Jersey lawmaker took up the case of Shaneen Allen.  New Jersey State Senator Jeff Van Drew said “In this case, we’re punishing an innocent woman who made an honest mistake, and was totally legal in her home state of Pennsylvania. I mean, honest mistakes happen, she’s a legal, law-abiding person and a mistake occurred and quite frankly the judge should have discretion and jurisdiction.” Van Drew co-sponsored a bill so cases like Allen’s can avoid the state’s mandatory jail time if convicted.  A similar bill is in the New Jersey House.

rachel – The new jersey second amendment association started their fully informed voter project this week.  They handed out leaflets across from the County criminal court in Atlantic County, NJ.  They greeted people arriving for jury duty and said “Good morning, may I give you this brochure on juror rights”.   Over all, people seem to be interested in knowing what their rights are.   They will be back next Monday to continue leafletting in Atlantic County.  They have plans to expand into all of New Jersey’s 21 counties.

rachel Gun Quotes

Those who want to reap the benefits of this great nation must bear the fatigue of supporting it.  Thomas Paine

Hang on everybody, we’ll be back after this

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Segment 4 DGUs

John – A man was standing in line at a North Philadelphia takeout restaurant.  Another man in line drew a gun and tried to rob him.  The restaurant customer drew his own firearm and shot the robber in the neck.   The robber was taken to Temple University Hospital in critical condition. The shooter was claiming self defense. There was no initial word on any charges.

comment- action beats reaction

rob – Douglas Hudson, 36, had a protective order against him filed by his ex-girlfriend. That didn’t stop him from entering her bedroom early Saturday morning with a pistol in his hand. She awoke to see Hudson standing at the foot of her bed where she was sleeping with her current boyfriend. The current boyfriend grabbed his pistol and engaged in a gunfight with Hudson. Both men ended up being shot and were transported to UAB Hospital for treatment. Hudson died at the hospital from his injuries. He had a lengthy criminal record for cocaine trafficking as well as assault. Birmingham [AL] police are investigating the shooting as a homicide and the details will be presented to the District Attorney’s Office. Investigators did note that Hudson had made a key to her residence without her consent.

rachel – Moss Point [MS] police arrested Nicholas Buchan, 21, of Pascagoula after responding to a home invasion on Adcock Street on Friday. Moss Point Police Chief Art McClung said Buchan invaded the home of a married couple around 4 a.m. Friday morning. The home invader entered through a window but was chased out of the home by the husband who was armed. There are no reports of shots being fired. Chief McClung says the couple was able to give a good description of Buchan and provide a nickname. Buchan was later arrested for burglary.

John – A shotgun-wielding home invader was shot and killed by the homeowner early Sunday morning. The incident happened in Person County [NC].  According to Sheriff Dewey Jones, the homeowner, whom the sheriff refused to name, discovered Jonathan Ellias Ziminack, 25 in his bedroom around 5am. The homeowner pulled a pistol from beside his bed and fired one shot at the home intruder. The bullet hit the shotgun before striking Ziminack in the stomach. Ziminack was airlifted to Duke University Med Center where he died.  Ziminack’s getaway driver, Cody Alicia Bowling, 20, was charged with conspiracy to commit 1st Deg Burglary. Other charges may be pending against her.

rachel Comment – According to NC records, Ziminack was a convicted felon who was only released in January.

rob – An Omaha, Nebraska man was at home Monday morning.  A man rang the bell at the front of his house.  Before he could answer, the man came in through the front door.  The homeowner’s four year old daughter saw the man outside her bedroom door.  That is when the homeowner shot the intruder. Police Officers found Darrell Miller lying on the porch with a gunshot wound.  He was taken to a local medical center where he died.  The intruder had an outstanding warrant for his arrest.

John comment- Don’t get between a bear and her cubs, or a dad and his four year old daughter.

rachel-  We have the links to each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com  They are a great way to introduce our podcast to a friend.

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Tips and tricks

Kids and guns-
Kids and guns is a continuation of kids and responsibility. I added rules to child’s play. When you see kids play with monsters, you ask them where the monster went, and ask them to put the monster away in its crate when they are done playing with it. Later you ask, Where is your sword. You didn’t leave it on the floor where I’d cut myself, did you? Here, you need a scabbard for your sword. The point is that there are rules even in fantasy play.

This continues when your children shoot finger guns. Don’t point that loaded finger gun at me. Let’s check if your finger gun is loaded. You need a holster. Treat your finger gun as if it is always loaded.

Children and Firearms: raising a polite society

How do you raise a polite society?
How do you raise your kids to be the kind of citizens you want them to be….responsible, trustworthy, courteous; able to handle firearms safely and competently, understanding their purpose and use? How do you make that happen?

Same way you’d teach anything else really important that you want to instill in them: model it. Be that person. Let them see you as a safe, responsible, knowledgeable firearms owner and user in your daily life.

1.) Safety
2.) Privacy – consider what they will tell others. Don’t let them have information that’s not public until you trust them to keep it private.
Rob- Say that again-

Teach them to keep information private – there are some things we just don’t talk about.

As long as you don’t hinder your safety or privacy, include your children in the way you make firearms a part of your everyday life.

Safety Rules
– make them memorize as young as possible
– even before then, let them see you living out the safety rules

– Let them see you clean guns (considerations: good ventilation)
– Let them help you (age-appropriately and with supervision as needed)
– Show them how it works (age-appropriately) so it’s not a mystery
Scenario: Jordan figuring out how to reassemble, exploring the various parts and seeing how they fit together

Rob? Take the excitement away from firearms by satisfying a child’s . A dirty gun gathers no excitement. A dirty gun in pieces is less than exciting, it is repulsive. My children had to clean before they could touch. They had to clean before they could shoot.

– start them as early as possible with toy guns, wooden sticks you’re pretending to be guns, stocks with a sling; when they’ve demonstrated safety and maturity, move to BB guns, airsoft, then actual firearms
– Teach them to do it just as you would with a real gun – using a good holster, being careful not to sweep bystanders when drawing
Scenario: children carrying play guns alongside their parents at open carry walks – follow the same safety rules
Scenario: when I’m loaning a youth shooter my 10/22 for an Appleseed shoot, I will show them how to use it and carry it safely, then I let THEM be the ones to carry it to the line.

– Be sure it’s comfortable and enjoyable
– Noise: use plenty of ear protection
– eye protection – teach the importance
– Hot brass: they’ll experience it eventually but try to prevent it from happening the first few times
– Elbow pads, knee pads, etc.
– Fit the gun to them – shorter stocks, risers, etc.
– Gloves sometimes help
– Let them take their time – dont’ rush them
– Let them leave when they’re done – don’t force them to stay
– Food and water
– Let them handle the guns, clear them, dryfire, etc. long before a trip to the range so they’re comfortable with the gun
Scenario: Appleseed shoots are a great introduction to shooting for responsible youth shooters. Bring a group of friends and make it the cool thing to do. Go out for ice cream afterward – that’s my tradition and everyone knows they’ll have that to look forward to after a long, tiring day at the range.

Other considerations:
– It’s OK if they don’t love guns. Your goal isn’t to raise a gun nut – it’s to raise a safe, responsible citizen.
– If your kid didn’t want to read, he’d still have to learn. He may never be an English major but he still needs to learn to read fluently. That’s how I’d treat firearms training – like a mandatory school subject that they must learn, and then they can choose what to do with it in the future after they are fluent in the basics.
– Consider what things might make your children dislike firearms and try to prevent it. For example: you paying more attention to guns and shooting than you do to them; a poor experience shooting; being laughed at; guns that don’t fit well; having to go to a shooting event when they wanted to do something else.

Segment 5 Show close
Listener e-mail discussion

John – I did a post that I put up last night playing off something Sen. Harry Reid said Monday. Reid, talking about the Koch brothers, said billionaires were trying to buy our democracy. Harry’s right but he had the wrong billionaires. If you look at the amount of money put into the universal background check initiative in Washington State, I-594, you will see approximately 75% of it comes from five billionaires plus one multimillionaire heiress. Collectively, they have put in over $5 million dollars into the campaign. On the pro-gun side the largest individual donation was by a Boeing engineer and it was for $1,500. Now who are the billionaires trying to buy democracy. You decide.

(DO NOT READ)Look at the shooters club by Bob Mayne and Ben Branam.  For $75.00 a year, $6.25 a month, you get 24/7 access to some fantastic training and audio podcasts that you can’t get anywhere else.  Subscribing from the link in our show notes helps Bob and Ben as well as helps us here at the Polite Society Podcast.

(DO NOT READ)Join your local civil rights group like the New Jersey Second Amendment Society, Arizona Citizens Defense League, Gun Owners of California, Commonwealth Second Amendment,  Connecticut Citizens Defense League, Florida Carry, Georgia Carry, Georgia Gun Owners, Grass Roots North Carolina, Illinois Carry, Maryland Shall Issue,  Michigan Gun Owners , Michigan Open Carry, and  Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners.

There are Minnesota Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance,  Nebraska Firearms Owners Association,   Citizens for a Safer New Jersey, New York State Rifle & Pistol Association,  Open Carry Texas, Texas Firearms Freedom, Texas State Rifle Association. Tennessee Firearms Association, Virginia Citizens Defense League, Virginia Open Carry,  West Virginia Citizens Defense League, wisconsingunowners.org, and Wyoming Gun Owners.

For our Canadian listeners, and their supporters, join the Canadian Shooting Sports Association and the Canadian National Firearms Association.  If YOUR state or local organization isn’t read each episode, then send us an email and we’ll add them!

Rachel: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast. John and Rob will you be with us next time?  I’m looking forward to it.  Until the next time…
John: stay safe,
Rob: be aware,
Rachel: and we’ll see you down the road.

2 thoughts on “Episode 268 – Kids and Guns

  1. The show notes are a great addition to any blog, everyone should do this.

    As for the Legislation Band Wagon that seems to developing around Shaneen Allen, I would advise caution an “arms length” approach as the lawyers say.

    Most of the rhetoric from both sides of the isle looks like pre election rhetoric, the history of support for gun legislation in New Jersey doesn’t seem to back up all the new found sympathy for the Open Carry issue or reciprocity. The Law Enforcement Lobby in New Jersey has a disproportionate influence in the New jersey Senate on all levels. Combine that with the Liberal Democrat Agenda, and the RINO element, and that is a lobby that has been the major road bloc. There are also NGO’s that have more or less infiltrated Law Enforcement Policy. The Georgia International Law Enforcement Exchange and a host of NGO’s have more influence by virtue of the lobbying effort and campaign donations.

    One thing to consider on Judge Donio’s appointment s that it was stalled for almost two years,until the New Jersey Senate Judiciary Committee and a full senate vote approved his appointment with no objections. He is tenured until 2023.

    I would say don’t fall for the okey-doke and wait to see if the pre-election rhetoric falls by the way side after November. Our Governor is a big money statist, He’s is Jon Corzine without the check book.BOTH of them come from Goldman-Sachs

  2. Pingback: Polite Society Podcast- Kids and Guns | Columbus Ohio Gunsmith

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