Episode 263 – Charlie Foxtrot

“An armed society is a polite society.. and this is the Polite Society Podcast where we support and report on civilian self-defense.”
Paul: Welcome to the polite society podcast recorded live Saturday August 23rd 2014. I’m Paul Lathrop.
Gary D: I’m Gary Daugherty, and we’ll talk about self-defense news
Rob: I’m Rob Morse and we have our weekly stories of defensive gun use
Rachel: I’m Rachel malone and we will talk with Charlie Foxtrot of the not one more gun law dot blogspot dot com.
Gary D: so climb aboard
Rachel: strap in
Rob: and hang on!
Paul: Episode 263 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.
Show intro music.

Seg 1- Personal news from each participant

Rob- Went shooting yesterday. Met a new gun and ran about 20 reloading drills to get properly introduced.
Gary- and I drove to SD
Rachel- Went shooting with friends on the spur of the moment Thursday and did some great defensive handgun training. Then I went and bought an EOTech that night. It was a great day. 🙂
Rob- Forgive me, Rachel. I have EOTech envy. Sorry
Paul Went shooting

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Seg 2- News


Paul- In a ruling that impacts the legal liability of any business that establishes a so-called gun free zone, US District Court Judge R. Brooke Jackson ruled that the shooting in the Cinemark Theater in Aurora, Colorado was foreseeable. He said, “Although theaters had theretofore been spared a mass shooting incident, the patrons of a movie theater are, perhaps even more than students in a school or shoppers in a mall, ‘sitting ducks’.” With that he denied Cinemark’s motion to dismiss the many lawsuits against it which now will go to trial. Cinemark had contended that the mass shooting in Aurora was “legally unforeseeable”.

Gary-  A permit to carry does not make you a cop. This is the lesson that a Chicago-area man with an Illinois Concealed Carry Permit is learning the hard way. Ali Ozturk, 34, had tried to enter a bar in Albany Park on Monday night. The bar had a bouncer who tried to pat him down upon entering. He told the bouncer that he worked for the “Officers Div. of Adult Institutions” and then flashed a metal badge that he later admitted he got off of EBay. Ozturk was  arrested a short time later at a nearby pool hall after a witness told police he was trying to impersonate a police officer. He is now in Cook County Jail under charged with that and under a $150,000 bail.

Rob- comment- Not the sharpest knife in the drawer.

Paul- Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel tweeted his support and praise for the gun control efforts of Michael Bloomberg and Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense in America on Thursday. Bloomberg has pledged $50 million to help get gun control candidates elected in November and Moms Demand is pressuring Kroger to bar law-abiding citizens from openly carrying guns (even where doing so is legal under state and local law). Emanuel himself has secured gun control measures that ban gun stores in 99.5 percent of Chicago. Which means law-abiding citizens have only “about half a percent of Chicago’s geographic area” in which they can buy a gun for defense of self, family, and property. According to the Chicago Sun Times, Emanuel is now defending Bloomberg from a growing backlash against the former NYC Mayor’s effort to control Americans’ lives via gun, food, and soda bans. The backlash was most recently exemplified by an NRA ad which calls Bloomberg out by name. On August 21 Emanuel tweeted supported for Bloomberg, combined with support for the gun control group he funds as well. He wrote, “I stand with Mike & the Moms!”, and then sent a second tweet in which he wrote: “No leader has done more to help end gun violence than Michael Bloomberg. He deserves our praise, not the NRA’s shameful attacks.”

Rachel – Living in a nanny-state changes one’s perception of “safety”. That is the only conclusion one should draw from the results of a poll in the Chicago Tribune which found 55% of the residents of Chicago felt “less safe” now that concealed carry is legal in Illinois. This finding coincides with the rise in crime in the Windy City. The poll also found support for Mayor Rahm Emanuel and Chicago Police Superintendent Garry McCarthy was dropping sharply as compared to the previous year.

Rob- Comment It is called a push poll.  “Do you feel safer or less safe now that citizens are allowed to carry guns in the city and crime is up?

Paul- A self-described environmentalist affiliated with the Green Party of Chicago was bent out of shape by a youth shooting range at the Illinois State Fair. This is the same shooting range that has been set up in 48 other states. Charles Paidock made his displeasure known in a letter to the editor published in the State Journal-Register of Springfield, Illinois. He had gone into the Conservation World pavillion at the fair. He says, “I expected the usual stuffed-animal exhibits and information on hunting licenses in Illinois, but I did not anticipate a traveling operation with no other apparent purpose than to inculcate children on how to use guns.” Mr. Paidock was disturbed by this and made his displeasure known to both fair officials and the Illinois Dept of Natural Resources.

Rob- This guy is trying to mainstream his hoplophobia.

Rob- The financially-troubled group Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership may be merged into the Second Amendment Foundation.  The survival of JPFO was in doubt after their spring fundraising drive raised hundreds of dollars rather than the tens of thousand needed to keep the organization alive.  Some JPFO members fear that JPFO will lose its character under SAF.

SAF founder Allan Gotlieb said “They approached SAF.  We said yes because it is important to the pro-gun rights movement to keep JPFO alive and make it grow.  JPFO and SAF will issue news releases when the merger becomes final late next week or the following Monday.

JFPO will get a new board of directors and function independently.  In the past we have absorbed KeepAndBearArms.com and Doctors for Responsible Gun Ownership and kept them running as they were before coming under the SAF umbrella.”

Well-known libertarian author Claire Wolfe who was a contractor for JPFO begs to disagree and went public with her disagreement on Friday night. In a series of posts at Backwoods Home, she contends any merger of JPFO with SAF would be a sell-out of founder’s Aaron Zelman’s vision.

Quoting author David Codrea, “The inescapable conclusion is, had gun owners stepped up and supported a group struggling after the passing of its founder, its rescue would have been unneeded.   http://www.examiner.com/article/announced-takeover-of-jewish-gun-group-provokes-controversy


Gary- D.C. City Council Chairman Phil Mendelson told FOX 5 on Thursday that he will appeal the gun carry ruling, making the information public for the first time. “The whole issue of the public carrying of a firearm is very complicated,” Mendelson said. “And I believe the executive and the attorney general will continue with the appeal.” Also this week, the city asked the court for six more months to rewrite its gun laws. Right now, the city has until October 22. That’s why Mendelson said gun carry will be at the top of the agenda when the city council returns from recess. “What the court said very clearly was that a complete 100-percent ban on anybody being able to get a license to carry a handgun was unconstitutional. But there’s a gray area between 100-percent ban and everybody can carry. And that’s what we’re working through.” … (My take: The District – which already has a more onerous requirements merely to register a handgun to be kept in the home than most states impose for carry permits – is stalling and hoping that it can get away with a carry-permit system as restrictive as Hawaii’s. On top of that, it will seek to ban carry in so many venues as to make lawful routine carry impossible.)


Comment-  Delay, deny, and obstruct.

Rachel- In Texas, blacks are protesting police violence in a particularly Southwestern way: By invoking their right to open carry. On Wednesday, more than 30 members of the newly-formed Huey P. Newton Gun Club gathered to march through South Dallas with rifles, shotguns, and AR-15s. The group eventually entered a restaurant with their weapons while Dallas police officers were inside eating lunch. “The recent murders of unarmed black, brown, and whites across the United States of America has eradicated trust in the police,” the gun club’s website states… (Of historical interest, California’s 1967 Mulford Act – which banned the open carry of a loaded firearm in a “public place” – was a response to the openly armed “Black Panther Police Patrols” in Oakland. Governor Ronald Reagan signed the bill after about two dozen Black Panthers, armed with rifles and shotguns, attempted to enter the Assembly chamber in the State Capitol. At the time, Reagan commented,“There’s no reason why on the street today a citizen should be carrying loaded weapons.” )


Rob- The Clark County prosecutor said Tuesday he will dismiss a firearms-related charge against a Vancouver man who said he was merely taking Vice President Joe Biden’s advice on how to defend his property from car prowlers. Instead, the man will be prosecuted for obstructing a police officer. Jeffrey C. Barton, 53, made international news when he told journalists: “I did what Joe Biden told me to do. I went outside and fired my shotgun in the air.” That is a reference to the vice president’s answer to a question in February 2013 about home defense. Biden responded that Americans don’t need to own semiautomatic weapons because a couple blasts from a shotgun will scare off intruders. Barton’s comment, dubbed the “Joe Biden defense,” was circulated widely among Second Amendment activists, and also landed a two-minute segment on “The Daily Show with Jon Stewart.” …However, the firearms charge will be replaced with a charge of obstructing a law enforcement officer, Golik said. Golik said ethical guidelines prevent him from discussing specific reasons for the new charge… Barton said Tuesday that the new charge also is groundless. “Tony Golik is desperately grasping at straws to keep his ass out of a civil suit, which he’s going to get anyway,” Barton said… (Not being an advocate of “warning shots,” I’m not ecstatic to see Uncle Joe’s cockamamie advice given any legal standing. Recall that Uncle Joe also advocated firing a shotgun through a closed door, at an unseen target.)


Rob- comment- Aren’t obstructing an officer and resisting arrest, and disturbing the garbage charge that keeps the police from being charged.

Paul- Last week a Maryland District court judge said modern semi-automatic rifles are only used for offense.  That is why these firearms are not protected by the right to bear arms.  Now it is clear that some citizens are more equal than others.  The Compton California school board authorized school resource officers to carry AR-15.  The local police chief said modern rifles were necessary so police could engage targets out at 150 to 300 feet and to penetrate soft body armor.

Rob- Comment- These are only offensive weapons if YOU have them. School Resource Officers are different.

Gary- Comment- It must be the blue polyester uniforms.

Rachel- I’ve said before that you are an ambassador for the gun culture, and you are are our secret weapon.  Well here is to you and this story is to your credit.  I’ll wait until the end to tell you where the story came from.  A major media company ran a video segment on women in the shooting sports.  They noted that women form a new and growing segment of the shooting sports.  The number of women target shooting has grown by 70 percent in the last 10 years.  Women have also taken up hunting, with 3 million women taking part each year.   Women are involved in every aspect of firearms ownership, not simply self-defense.  The stereotype that the NRA has scared  women into buying guns is false.  Here is the best part- the article appeared on CBS- this Morning.

Comment- Would someone look at the thermometer and check if it is snowing in hell.

Rob- In my own backyard, a California State University San Marcos faculty member  was surrounded by SWAT cops for open carrying.. that is open carrying an umbrella on campus.

It rarely rains in California, but it did this morning.  Someone called the San Diego County Sheriff’s office to report a bald white male, wearing a black shirt and jeans and walking across campus carrying a rifle. This resulted in a shelter-in place order for some 400 staff and students going through new student orientation.  Faculty and students huddled behind doors barricaded with tables and chairs.  Thirty minutes later the umbrella-bearing teacher figured out he matched the description of the alleged gunman and he contacted police to arrange his surrender.

Comment-  Hoplophobes never check for ability, opportunity and demonstrated intent.  We are raising a generation of paranoids and law enforcement who feel justified shooting someone if they carry something that could remotely look like a firearm.  We need to fight for hearts and minds.

Rachel comment – if only they had a CATI-California open carry group to help show them what rifles actually look like, so they didn’t confuse them with umbrellas.

Gun Quotes
“An attack on a hunter is an attack on all hunters, is an attack on all gun owners. Respond accordingly.” Michael Bane – Gun & Hunting Culture 2.0

Hang on everybody, we’ll be right back after this
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Segment 3 Interview
With Charlie Foxtrot.  This article drew some attention when I discussed the several riots I’ve seen.    Here is his facebook page.

Segment 4 DGUs

Rachel- A home invasion ended in gunfire in a east Harris County [TX] apartment Thursday morning. Deputies were called to a shooting at the Saddle Ridge Apartments on Woodforest just before 7am. Sgt. Gary Harrison says during that home invasion, the man who lives inside the apartment shot one of the suspects in self-defense. That young man was airlifted to Ben Taub Hospital. Three suspects were involved. One other was taken into custody. The third fled the scene once gunfire erupted. Investigators are looking into whether these suspects were responsible for any earlier incidents in the area. http://abc13.com/news/resident-shoots-suspect-during-home-invasion/275001/

Gary- A 73-year-old Lilburn [GA] woman shot through a door as a burglar approached her bedroom and then she chased him out of her house, continuing to fire, according to a police report…According to a report on the incident obtained by The Atlanta Journal-Constitution Thursday, Douglas said someone rang her doorbell around 9:45 p.m. on Aug. 3. She looked out her bedroom window and spotted a truck parked nearby in the middle of the intersection of Falconhurst Drive and Hewatt Road. Douglas called 911 and waited. Moments later, however, she heard glass shattering and then the pottery she placed in front of her backdoor breaking so she grabbed her gun. According to the report, Douglas stayed in the bedroom but she “could see light from a flashlight getting closer from under the door. When she heard the doorknob turn, she fired one shot through the door. “She then heard a scream on the other side of the door and the subject fled downstairs. Douglas went downstairs and saw the subject in the kitchen looking for the back door. She fired several more shots in the general direction of the subject as he ran outside.” While detectives were still investigating at Douglas’s house, Jamie Christoper Lewis showed up at the Eastside Medical Center in Snellville with a non-life threatening gunshot wound to the chest. He was charged with burglary… (All’s well that ends well but I’d have waited until he opened the door.) http://www.ajc.com/news/news/gwinnett-woman-73-chases-burglar-suspect-from-home/ng6y3/

Paul- An Ashley Avenue woman told police she fired her gun at two teens who tried to rob her at her home Wednesday night. Charleston [SC] police responded to the woman’s home at 1311 Ashley Ave. about 10:20 p.m. and found several bullet holes in the wall and window, according to an incident report. The woman told detectives she was getting out of her car with her child in her arms when two teens with guns approached her from the rear of the apartment building. The teens ordered her into the house. Once she was inside, she ran into her bedroom, put her child on the bed and grabbed her gun, the report says. She walked into the living room where the teens were standing and started shooting, prompting the teens to run out the door. No one has been arrested, Charleston police spokesman Charles Francis said.. http://www.postandcourier.com/article/20140821/PC16/140829844/1177/police-charleston-woman-shot-at-teens-who-tried-to-rob-her-at-gunpoint

Rob- A jewelry store employee shot at a suspected robber Thursday afternoon at the Asian Garden Mall. The incident occurred around 12:25 p.m. inside Tick Tock Watches in Westminster [CA]   Two men wearing ski-type masks and hooded sweatshirts entered the store, then used a hammer to break glass on a display case.  They then grabbed the merchandise. One witness reported that one of the men may have been armed with a gun.  A store employee pulled out a weapon and fired two shots at the robbers. The robbers fled the store, possibly with some merchandise, but police don’t know whether either was struck by the gunfire.. http://www.ocregister.com/articles/store-632397-collins-robbers.html

Gary- This is a tragic news item with a message.  A San Bernardino policeman remained in a medically induced coma today.  The man who assaulted the police officer was killed by the policeman’s patrol partner.  31 year old Patrolman Gabriel Garcia, 31 was in extremely critical condition in Colton, California.  Garcia is a highly commended, six-year veteran of the department who has spent much of his career on patrol duty.  His father, Ron Garcia, is a captain with the department.  Garcia and his partner- a trainee on the job for just two months – stopped to talk to a group of people standing outside a home on a cul de sac when one of group pulled a gun and opened fire.  Officer Garcia was struck three time.  Garcia’s partner fired at least 30 rounds and wounded the gunman.  The 38 year old assailant died at a hospital. Two other men at the scene were arrested and jailed.  One was held on suspicion of attempted murder, possession of an assault rifle and possession of a sawed-off rifle.  Another was was arrested in connection with outstanding traffic warrants.

Rob-  Here is a take-away: criminals don’t fight fair.  Several people attacked these officers.   The average number of people involved in an assault or strongarm robbery is 2.3 against one.  The defending officer reloaded and kept firing to neutralize the threat.

Gary- Comment- tell me again why a single citizen in California only needs 10 rounds to defend themselves?

We have the links to each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com if you want to share them with a friend.

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Segment 5 Show close

Listener e-mail discussion

( DO NOT READ)The Polite Society download app is outon Amazon for Android and the I-phone app is in I-tunes and it is called Podcast Box.  They are located by our old name, Politics and guns.  Hot links are in our show notes.

Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?

Rob- I wrote about some proposed California gun laws.  It turns out the new gun violence restraining orders have an unusual provision.  These restraining orders can deny access to “sensitive areas”.  Think about that.  We know our legislators are crazy and are clearly a danger to themselves and others.  That means we can put their sanity on trial and keep California legislators out of the capital.

(DO NOT READ) Look at the shooters club by Bob Mayne and Ben Branam.  For $75.00 a year, $6.25 a month, you get 24/7 access to some fantastic training and audio podcasts that you can’t get anywhere else.  Subscribing from the link in our show notes helps Bob and Ben as well as helps us here at the Polite Society Podcast.

(DO NOT READ) Join your local civil rights group like theNew Jersey Second Amendment Society,Arizona Citizens Defense League,Gun Owners of California, Commonwealth Second Amendment,  Connecticut Citizens Defense League,Florida Carry, Georgia Carry,Georgia Gun Owners,Grass Roots North Carolina,Illinois Carry, Maryland Shall Issue,  Michigan Gun Owners , Michigan Open Carry, and  Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners.

There are Minnesota Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance,  Nebraska Firearms Owners Association,   Citizens for a Safer New Jersey,New York State Rifle & Pistol Association,  Open Carry Texas, Texas Firearms Freedom, Texas State Rifle Association. Tennessee Firearms Association, Virginia Citizens Defense League, Virginia Open Carry,  West Virginia Citizens Defense League, wisconsingunowners.org, and Wyoming Gun Owners.

For our Canadian listeners, and their supporters, join theCanadian Shooting Sports Association and theCanadian National Firearms Association.  If YOUR state or local organization isn’t read each episode, then send us an email and we’ll add them!

Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast. Until the ( mid-week / weekend ) show…
Rob: stay safe,
Rachel: be aware,
Gary: and we’ll see you down the road.