Episode 255 – The Palmer Decision

“An armed society is a polite society.. and this is the Polite Society Podcast where we support and report on civilian self-defense.”
Paul: Welcome to the polite society podcast recorded live from ABN Army Surplus on Saturday, July 26th, 2014. I’m Paul Lathrop
Rachel: I’m Rachel Malone and on tonights show we’ll talk with Bob Mayne of the Handgun World Show about some training coming to Sioux Falls next spring.
John: I’m John Richardson, and we’ll talk about self-defense news
Rob: I’m Rob Morse and we have our weekly stories of defensive gun use
Rachel: so climb aboard
John: strap in
Rob: and hang on!
Paul: Episode 255 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.
Show intro music.

Seg 1- Personal news from each participant

Paul – Shout out to Jason at Concealment Solutions, Watching a trucker that was almost concealed carrying. Working to get the house set up for our new family members.

John – No range time since Wednesday but I did read an excellent article that would go along well with our DGUs. It was about “spot shooting” and how it could improve your shooting. Or as the author’s 83 year old father told a would be robber, do you want it in the teeth or the belly.

Rachel- I’ve been sitting here all week fondling gun parts and was super excited about sharing with y’all my new AR upgrade that was supposed to happen today. Unfortunately, I had a friend with a medical emergency and ended up spending last night at the ER and today taking care of kids. Some things take priority. The gun parts will just have to wait.

Rob- I had two hours of SIRT training on Friday, and a five hour IDPA competition this morning. You’d rather end on a strong stage.. but I didn’t. I was disappointed in my last stage after I had to restart because the afternoon wind blew the targets over. 🙁


Segment 2- NEWS News_Partner_white

Paul-We have a bit of breaking news a few hours ago as we record this the US District Court for the District of Columbia struck down the complete ban of carry in Washington DC.  From Alan Gura’s blog, the court stated that “In light of Heller, McDonald, and their progeny, there is no longer any basis on which this Court can conclude that the District of Columbia’s total ban on the public carrying of ready-to-use handguns outside the home is constitutional under any level of scrutiny. Therefore, the Court finds that the District of Columbia’s complete ban on the carrying of handguns in public is unconstitutional.”

This is a MONSTER win. I don’t expect things to change overnight, but this is DEFINITELY a step in the right direction.

Comments – John – This case has dragged on for over 5 years. Alan Gura even went to the US Ct of Appeals twice seeking to get Judge Frederick Scullin to issue a decision one way or another. I agree that this is a fantastic win for gun rights and the right to carry in the Nation’s Capital. George Lyon, one of the plaintiffs, urged Mayor Vincent Gray and the City Council “to swiftly enact a concealed carry law”.

Rob- We will see how this plays out.  I have several friends in DC who should concealed carry.  It is bizarre that it took five years for the court to reach this decision.  That was a political delay, not a judicial one.

John – With election season starting to heat up after the primaries, the NRA Freedom Action Foundation has announced that Chuck Norris will be the honorary chairman of the Trigger the Vote campaign. This campaign seeks to make sure that gun owners and gun rights supporters are registered to vote. Even though voter registration has become ridiculously easy over the years, you still can’t vote unless you are registered.

Comments-?  Remember R Lee Earney and his get out the vote series?

Rob – The city of Kansas City, Missouri wants to ban open carry within its city limits.  Mayor Sly James – Sly is a great name for a politician, by the way – said, “the sight of open carry is something that people could find too intimidating.” The Missouri Legislature had passed a bill that would have prevented cities from prohibiting open carry by those with CCW licenses. As we recently reported, Gov. Jay Nixon (D-MO) vetoed that gun rights bill. The legislature will meet in September to try and override the veto.

Comments- Rachel(comment)- it’s up to Missouri gun owners to make open carry non-intimidating.


Rachel – First Lady Michelle Obama was in Chicago on Thursday where, as listeners to the podcast know, we often speak about shootings and murders that happen despite their gun control laws. After decrying the role of money and special interests in politics, Mrs. Obama told attendees at a Democratic fundraiser who paid up to $20,000 a couple to attend to dig deep in their pockets. She said electing Democrats would put kids first and help eliminate gun violence (sic) in her hometown. She didn’t have anything to say about cracking down on the gangs who are behind most of the shootings in Chicago. Go figure.

Comments-Rob- is gun violence a fault or a feature of Chicago machine politics.

John – Boston Police Commissioner William Evans evidently didn’t get the message from Vice-President Joe Biden. That’s because he said in an interview with public radio WGBH that “For the most part, nobody in the city needs a shotgun. Nobody needs a rifle.” He was responding to a question about gun permits in Massachusetts. He, like too many police chiefs in the Bay State, want the ultimate authority to say who can or can’t exercise their Second Amendment rights. I seem to remember that it was a move by another person in authority in Boston that triggered a war. That person was General Gage in April 1775 and the war was the American Revolution.

Comments-?  Rob- an only one!

Rachel- I actually think I agree with the police commissioner, in a way. For the most part – most days – you don’t need a shotgun or rifle to defend yourself.  But you never know when you will.

Rob- It is an election year and some Colorado Representatives are now reading the poll numbers.  Colorado legislators felt that they could do anything they wanted once they were elected.  That was when they rammed through new gun control laws and before three Colorado Senators were removed from office.  Those gun control bills were actually pushed through by Democrats to keep guns away from those with criminal backgrounds.  The legislative research committee said that about 420,000 background checks each year would stop criminals from getting guns.  Democrats allocated $3 million to the state agency in charge of handling all the projected extra reviews and checks, the Colorado Bureau of Investigations.  A year later, and the agency’s only performed 13,600 reviews — roughly 7 percent of what was predicted.

“I’m going to be asking some questions because I want to be a good steward of our tax dollars,” said Democratic Rep. Rhonda Fields, who nonetheless stood by the law and expressed optimism with its future, AP reported.

Paul- The first recall in Colorado was of Senate Leader John Morse.  Morse also ran a ballot initiative to make it harder to recall legislators.  That effort couldn’t gather the signatures to make the ballot.  There was a separate ballot initiative that did gather enough signatures.  That measure was to ban concealed carry on campus.  After looking at more poll numbers, the backers decided NOT to put the campus carry ban bill on the ballot.

Rachel (comment)- Last episode, we interviewed Luke Wagner of Colorado 2nd Amendment Association. They’re a great example of regular citizens doing extraordinary work to significantly change their state for gun rights.

John – They still have elections.. even in Cook County, Illinois.  Chicago area residents will vote if Illinois should impose an assault weapons ban and universal background checks required sell anything firearm related.  Both are non binding referendum designed to provide political cover for democrat legislators.

Paul – Just to let you know that they don’t have a justice system in New Jersey.  Baltimore Ravens running back Ray Rice was not prosecuted after he knocked his fiancee unconscious in an Atlantic City casino.  Instead, Rice received a two game suspension from the NFL.  Contrast his treatment with Shaneen Allen who was a licensed firearms owners and tried to drive through New Jersey.  She is facing three years in jail for a felony weapons violation.. from the same prosecutor who diverted Ray Rice to family counseling.

Rachel- Gun Quotes
“A man’s rights rest in three boxes: the ballot box, the jury box, and the cartridge box.”
– Frederick Douglass


Segment 4 DGUs

We have had multiple emails pointing us to tonight’s 1st DGU.

John – DOCTORS ARE known for saving lives – but rarely do they do it with a gun.

But that’s exactly what happened yesterday, authorities said, when a psychiatrist, Dr. Lee Silverman,  returned fire on a patient who had shot him in the head and had fatally shot a caseworker Theresa Hunt  at the Sister Marie Lenahan Mercy Wellness Center in Yeadon, Delaware County.

“Without a doubt, I believe the doctor saved lives,” Yeadon Police Chief Donald Molineux said. “If he [the doctor] wasn’t armed . . . this guy could have went out in the hallway and just walked down the offices until he ran out of ammunition.”

This DGU is making national news because it involved a doctor and a hospital. The psychotic patient involved had both a criminal record including firearm violations and a history of suicide attempts. How he obtained the pistol is not known but Pennsylvania has background checks on private sales of handguns.


Rachel- It is not incongruous for a doctor, one known for saving lives, to carry a gun. Those fighting for hospital carry should bookmark this story and pull it up as needed.

Rob- The hospital’s gun free zone was broken.  The doctor fixed it.  I wonder if the doc makes house-calls!  Please leave a comment at the hospital website to thank the doctor for saving lives.


Listener John P ( not going to try to attempt the name it will get butchered) sent in this DGU story.

Reading straight from nbcconnecticut.com

Two brothers fought off and helped detain a 15-year-old armed intruder who tried to rob them early Wednesday morning in New London, police said.
A teen, wearing a hockey mask and carrying a knife and a loaded gun, invaded a home on Crystal Avenue just before 3 a.m. on Wednesday, according to police.
Richard and Kevin Dennis were asleep when the teen broke in, but woke up and acted quickly.
Richard went toward the teen.
“That’s when he hit me in the head with the gun. Then I picked him up and he started wailing on my back with the butt of the gun,” Richard said.
Kevin got a gun to help his brother, and told the teen to drop his weapon and stay still.
“I heard my brother say, ‘Kevin, I need help. He has a gun.’ When I heard that, (I) grabbed my gun and went flying through the door,” Kevin Dennis said.
The teen did drop his weapon.
“He dropped it the moment he saw me. I got mine. The fight was over. It was night and day,” Kevin Dennis said.
When police arrived, they arrested the intruder.
The teen was charged with home invasion, burglary, second-degree assault with a firearm, first-degree threatening and carrying a pistol without a permit. His name has not been released because of his age.The resident who was assaulted had minor injuries, but declined medical treatment, police said.

Rob- This was a 2:30 am burglary. I wonder about the toxicology report. This kid is lucky to be alive. Can you imagine if you saw an armed intruder in YOUR house? The homeowner showed a ton of restraint!

We have the links to each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com if you want to share them with a friend.

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Segment 5 Show close

Listener e-mail discussion

Ken in Arizona sent a second email about Target

After hearing you read my Target email on the podcast, and following Gary’s comments about a business has the right to “ban” guns on their private property, I felt a need to further explain my position.

I know that Target’s policy is only a request for people to not carry their firearms inside their stores, just as Chipotle and Starbucks have “requested” the same. I could still legally concealed-carry in their stores. However, we are in the fight of our lives to keep our Constitutionally protected rights. (Note that I didn’t say “Constitutional rights”, there’s a big difference. But I digress.)

For a business to not be in complete support of our rights and to try to appease the PC/gun-grabbing/anti-freedom/Progressive crowd, just isn’t good enough any more in this struggle. We are, indeed, in the fight of our lives, the fight for our lives, and to accept and support a business that isn’t 100% with us is supporting our adversaries, if not completely, then at least partially. And partial support is still support, and just no good any more.

We need strong voices who publicly, loudly, and firmly state their support of The Constitution, and not voices who appease, compromise, equivocate, and preach “feel-good” fantasies and “reasonable” policies that make everyone happy and are “inclusive”, “reasonable”, and “common sense”.

It’s time for Truth, Justice, and The American Way. We’ve reached the time when nothing short of that will do.

Ken Silva
Phoenix, AZ

Here’s extra comment that you can ignore. It’s just how I got here.

PS I am new to this cause and new to firearms. Sandy Hook is what woke me up. Why didn’t anyone stop the madman, I wondered. It was only Sandy Hook when I learned about “gun-free zones”. The insanity of such a policy was immediately obvious and distressing. They are a perfect way to make more victims. I discovered the entire shooting community and the other side of gun-ownership and gun-rights that I never knew existed, being a product of the mainstream media for 60 years. My ignorance was profound. My education has been eye-opening and equally as profound. My disgust with our “leaders” and the “4th Estate” is huge, and growing every day with my ongoing education. Thank goodness for new media, the internet, podcasts such as yours, and the time I have in retirement to devote to these issues. Unfortunately, most Americans are as I was for all those years, too busy to stray outside the mainstream, and therefore, brainwashed to the agenda of the powerful and omni-present mainstream media.

I see this fight we are in as one fueled by ignorance. Once people become educated, we will be back on the right track. It only took me a couple of months to counteract 60 years of learned ignorance. But our media and our politicians are not about education, so I’m not hopeful that our struggle will be over any time soon. As a digression, look at Common Core. Teach all the kids from the same playbook, and you limit ideas outside that playbook.

As another digression, look at the recent illegal immigration being encouraged by Washington and The White House. What better voting block than millions of new voters who don’t even speak the language. That’s a pretty clever way of keeping the voters ignorant. It’s criminal what they are doing. Keep fighting! Preserve, protect, and defend, indeed!
(Gee, I sound pretty radical, even to myself! Well, so be it.)

PPS I hope you keep us informed on the new doggies.

Rachel- The Polite Society download app is out on Amazon for Android and the I-phone app is in I-tunes and it is called Podcast Box.  They are located by our old name, Politics and guns.  Hot links are in our show notes.

John- Also please check out Kathy Jackson’s Cornered Cat training classes. Her next class that has seats available is September 13th and 14th in Culpepper Virginia. Also remember that in September is the couples class in Centerton Arkansas with Jon Hodoway.  Go to Cornered Cat dot com for more classes and details.

John- Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?

Rob- I do.  I live in San Diego.  San Diego Sheriff Bill Gore said he will protect us and we have no need to protect ourselves.  Somehow Sheriff Gore overlooked the thousand of crime victims in June.  As usual, most of the victims this month are unarmed and defenseless. Sheriff Bill Gore says he may not issue licenses to carry a concealed weapon for self-defense.  In contrast, many other California Sheriffs do exactly that.

Paul-? Look at the shooters club by Bob Mayne and Ben Branam.  For $75.00 a year, $6.25 a month, you get 24/7 access to some fantastic training and audio podcasts that you can’t get anywhere else.  Subscribing from the link in our show notes helps Bob and Ben as well as helps us here at the Polite Society Podcast.

Join your local civil rights group like the New Jersey Second Amendment Society, Arizona Citizens Defense League, Gun Owners of California, Commonwealth Second Amendment,  Connecticut Citizens Defense League, Florida Carry, Georgia Carry, Georgia Gun Owners, Grass Roots North Carolina, Illinois Carry, Maryland Shall Issue,  Michigan Gun Owners , Michigan Open Carry, and  Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners.

There are Minnesota Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance,  Nebraska Firearms Owners Association,   Citizens for a Safer New Jersey,New York State Rifle & Pistol Association,  Open Carry Texas, Texas Firearms Freedom, Texas State Rifle Association. Tennessee Firearms Association, Virginia Citizens Defense League, Virginia Open Carry,  West Virginia Citizens Defense League, wisconsingunowners.org, and Wyoming Gun Owners.

For our Canadian listeners, and their supporters, join the Canadian Shooting Sports Association and the Canadian National Firearms Association.  If YOUR state or local organization isn’t read each episode, then send us an email and we’ll add them!

Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast. Until the mid-week show…
Rob: stay safe,
Rachel: be aware,
John: and we’ll see you down the road.

One thought on “Episode 255 – The Palmer Decision

  1. Pingback: Episode 258 – Joe Kalil, Brandon Combs, Frank Fiamingo, John Pierce | The Polite Society Podcast

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