Episode 251 – Russell Smith

“An armed society is a polite society.. and this is the Polite Society Podcast where we support and report on civilian self-defense.”
Rob: Welcome to the polite society podcast recorded live on Wednesday, July 9th, 2014. I’m Rob Morse.
John: I’m John Richardson, and on today’s show we have an interview with Russell Smith of the Armed Porcupine.
Rob: I’m Rob Morse and we have our usual news and DGUs, so climb aboard
John: strap in
Rob: and hang on!
John: Episode 251 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.
Show intro music.

Seg 1- Personal news from each participant

Rob- Dry practice.

John – My gun related news is that I’ve arranged a visit to PTR Industries in Aynor, South Carolina. PTR was one of the Connecticut firearms companies impacted by the new draconian laws post-Newtown. Rather than try to operate in a state that didn’t want them, they moved to South Carolina where Gov. Nikki Haley spoke at their ribbon cutting.

Here is a bit of news for our chat room warriors, we won’t record an episode next Wednesday. For everyone else it means we won’t publish an episode next Saturday.
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Seg 2- News


-Now here is an open carry event that won hearts and minds. There were the usual cowhorses, rodeo queens, fire engines and political candidates waving to the delighted crowd.  The event was the God and Old Glory parade in Westcliffe, Colorado on Independence day.  By far, the largest group of participants – and the one that got some of the most enthusiastic response from the crowd – were the estimated 250 advocates, many clad in red, white and blue, marching openly with guns holstered on their hips or slung over their shoulders. They carried everything from old-fashioned flintlock rifles to semi-automatics to fake plastic guns carried by children.  The Royal Gorge Tea Party carried a sign that said: Keep your gun in the right hands – yours.

Colorado parade

-Two organizations, Students for Concealed Carry and Ohioans for Concealed Carry, filed a lawsuit in Ohio Court.  They challenged the Ohio State University’s authority to ban lawful possession of firearms.  Currently firearms are banned for students, faculty and staff on University campuses.

The concealed carry groups think these university regulations infringe on a fundamental Constitutional Right to armed self-defense.  The regulations also disarm students and staff to and from campus, leaving them vulnerable to violent crime on their commute in what is historically a high crime area.  While Ohio law permits a concealed handgun licensee to store a firearm in a motor vehicle on OSU’s campuses, a student could still face administrative sanctions from the university including expulsion due to the certain provisions in the Student Code of Conduct. Michael R. Moran, a Columbus attorney representing the groups, points out that expulsion from taxpayer funded Ohio State for a firearms related incident carries severe consequences for a law-abiding student including an academic record blemish that “can virtually guarantee the disciplined student may never earn an accredited degree.”

Comment-  Last episode we had a similar article about a lawsuit brought in florida to allow concealed carry holders to keep their firearms in the cars.

r-Boise State University in Idaho just attracted a lawsuit, and it seems well deserved.  The student group Young Americans for Liberty invited Dick Heller to speak on campus.  Dick was the plaintiff in the Washington DC versus Heller case that returned some rights of armed self-defense to DC citizens.  Hours before Heller was to appear, the Boise State administrators said the students needed to pay a $465 security fee.  The excuse was that someone said claimed they would open carry at the event.  This is technically called a heckler’s veto, since anyone could claim they might violate school policy and therefore require more campus security.  This in turn allows the university administration to impose a security fee on any student group they didn’t like.  The lawsuit is funded by the group FIRE, Foundation for Individual Rights in Education.

Comment- John, does this remind  you of your university?

j- The laws to restrict the mentally insane from getting firearms don’t work if the public and the courts don’t follow through and apply them.  The excuse for the surge in recent anti-gun laws is the murder at a Connecticut school a year and a half ago.  Connecticut had laws in place since 1999 that allowed the mentally ill to be disarmed and go to trial showing they were, or were not, a danger to themselves and others.  Like the gun-laws that make it illegal for known criminals to have guns, these prohibitions are largely ineffective.  The law is often abused by Connecticut police and by couples waging lawfare against each other.

Rob Comment- California is considering a similar law.

Comment- It is an election year and the politicians are pandering for a press release and for Bloomberg campaign money.

r- A rash of animal shootings by police officers nationwide has law-enforcement agencies running for cover amid growing public outrage that could force state legislatures to require greater accountability from men and women in uniform. No government agency keeps a national database on the number of pets killed by police. But animal-abuse activists have kept statistics.  They say a pet is murdered by law enforcement every 98 minutes in America.  This is largely a result of officers having little-to-no training on how to deal with dogs.  The book Management of Aggressive Canines for Law Enforcement”  is a good starting point, and you might give to your local police if they lack such training.

Comment- Most officers are under control.  The out of control officers hide behind the deep pockets of the city lawyers and behind their union work rules.

j- Atlanta, Georgia deserves a shout out for a special kind of dumb.  Last year, concealed carry holders could enter city government buildings.  After the Georgia legislature passed laws allowing carry in bars and restaurants, the Atlanta Mayor banned private citizens from carrying in city buildings.  Mayor Kasim Reed needs to lose a lawsuit.  It ia amazing that the Mayor did nothing to keep armed criminals out of city hall, but now he wants to ban citizens who have been fingerprinted and had a background check.

Comment- Stop electing the village idiot into government office.

– This is why it matters.  41 people were shot in New York City over the week including Independence day.  Chicago recorded 104 gunshot victims during the same week.  None of the shootings were by licensed gun owners committing in the commision of a crime.  Not one in either city.

The fact that there is high crime in these gun-control paradise cities is lost on their corrupt politicians.  The top cop in Chicago blamed the violence on lax gun laws.  You can’t fix a failed society with prohibition, but blaming a piece of metal makes a great smokescreen for corrupt politicians.

Comment- You don’t achieve peace by disarming honest people.

j- Here is more news from Chicago.  You need lawyers and money to have a chance at a concealed carry permit in Illinois.  There are almost 200 lawsuits pending against the Illinois state police and the state special review board which grants and denies concealed carry permits. One example is Michael Thomas.  Thomas is a former Air force reservist who routinely carried a firearm in the military.  Now living in Chicago, the took the required firearms training courses, paid a host of fees, and submitting fingerprints for a background check to buy a firearm.  That is why he is puzzled why the Illinois special review board denied his application for a concealed carry license.  Thomas never had a run-in with the law.  He said “I have never been arrested or convicted of any offense, either misdemeanor or felony, in the state of Illinois or any other state.  I have no criminal record of any type.”  He feared a case of identity theft and asked the state police for a rehearing.  The state police refused to say why he was denied, and told him that the special review board’s decisions couldn’t be reviewed.  Instead, he would have to petition a court for an appeal.

There are 800 people like Michael Thomas who have been denied licenses by the board, a quasi-judicial body who meets behind closed doors and keeps its records and reasoning secret, even from applicants who are denied.  The Illinois law contains contradictory language that leaves the appeals process open to political interpretation. It states that in the event of a denial, state police “must notify the applicant stating the grounds for the denial.” But it also says that, “all board decisions and voting records shall be kept confidential and all materials considered by the board shall be exempt from inspection except upon order of a court.”

comment- Put not your faith in Illinois politicians.

r- And stay the hell out of New Jersey too. It looks like we have another innocent citizen railroaded by New Jersey’s anti gun laws.  Shaneen Allen from Philadelphia was arrested for traveling through New Jersey while possessing legal ammunition.  As usual, the law enforcement officers said a judge could sort it out.  That puts Ms Allen at risk of paying for a trial, and at risk of a felony conviction if the judge is as dishonest as they have been in the past.  Evan F. Nappen is defending her, but that doesn’t mean she will receive a fair trail.

We’ll keep you up to date.

Was she charged with driving while black.. with a firearms as an aggravating circumstance.

Gun Quotes

John “Convinced that the people are the only safe depositories of their own liberty, and that they are not safe unless enlightened to a certain degree, I have looked on our present state of liberty as a short-lived possession unless the mass of the people could be informed to a certain degree.” –Thomas Jefferson to Littleton Waller Tazewell, 1805.

Rob “Whenever the people are well-informed, they can be trusted with their own government. Whenever things get so far wrong as to attract their notice, they may be relied on to set them to rights.” –Thomas Jefferson to Richard Price, 1789. ME 7:253

Hang on everybody, we’ll be right back after this
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Segment 3 Interviews
Interview with Russell Smith talking about his green stripe universal background check proposal. Russ is at the Armoured Porcupine on Facebook.
Segment 4 DGUs
Green stripe summary.

John – I’ll wait until the end to tell you where this DGU happened because you won’t believe it. A military service member with an Illinois concealed carry permit was leaving a party with 3 friends when they noticed a cup of liquor on their car left there by someone attending a party next door. When they removed it, a party goer got upset, went inside the house,retrieved a gun, and came out shooting. The CCW holder got behind the fender of the car and shot Denzel Mickiel, 22, twice in the arm and back.  The four victims then left the immediate scene as others started shooting at them.

Mickiel remain hospitalized on Sunday but has been charged with attempted murder and will be held on $950,000 bond.

The city was Chicago!!!!

Rob- God bless concealed carriers.. particularly in Chicago.

r-The owners of the Lexington, Kentucky jewelry and pawn shop were suspicious when three young men walked into their store.  It was 90 degrees outside with high humidity and the three were wearing hoodies with the hoods over their heads.  Let us say the store owner was shocked, but not surprised when one of the three pulled a hammer from his jacket pocket and smashed a display case holding expensive watches.  The owner drew his pistol and ordered the three thieves to the ground.  That is how the police found them when they arrived minutes later

I don’t know that I’d draw my gun to protect property, but this store owner protected his store and his staff.

j- I don’t think the criminals are going to obey the gun control laws.  This one didn’t.  53 year old Steve Griffin threatened to kill a cashier at a Waffle house on Sunday.  On Monday he drew his gun and threatened a cashier at a Greenville, South Carolina Waffle House.  This clerk pulled her own gun, and Green ran before she fired.  Simpsonville Police arrested him later that day.

r- Four armed home invaders broke into a home in Springfield, Missouri very early this past Saturday morning. In the home were Rick Rogers, his girlfriend Chelsea St. John, and her daughter-in-law. When they realized the intruders were armed, Rogers rushed upstairs to get his firearm followed by his girlfriend. That is when one of the home intruders, Kenneth Fry, 40, grabbed Ms. St. John by the hair and drug her back downstairs into the kitchen. He told her, “get on the floor, you know I will kill you.” Fry then went to attack Mr. Rogers whereupon Rogers shot first and killed Fry. The other 3 intruders rushed out of the house upon hearing the shot.

Fast forward to Sunday afternoon, when two men were walking past her house, Ms. St. John looked at one of the men and realized he was one of the home intruders. She immediately called 911 and police ended up catching one of the men. The other is still on the loose.

Of the killing of Kenneth Fry, Mr. Rogers said he had no regrets. “I would do it again,” says Rogers. ” If they do it again, I would do it again. You got to protect your family.”

j- We have the links to each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com if you want to share them with a friend.

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Segment 5 Show close

Listener e-mail discussion
Rob- A friend wrote me about Matt’s rant. I want to share his comment with all of you.

E-mail from listener Ian

I am listening to your podcast with the listeners rant. (Matt’s rant) He is right. You are all right. Here’s my understanding. in as few words as I can use because I can ramble.

Self defense includes and is not exclusive to protection personally or as a group of yourself, your family, your town, your city, your county, your state and your country. Any one of those can be defense against tyranny, whether it’s local or national.

You guys cover personal DGU’s regularly.

An example of local tyranny is The 1946 Battle Of Athens in Tennessee

Your listeners point is that the word tyranny rattles Average Joe’s cage is correct, because people believe that kind of thing only happens in other countries and America is home of the free. That could never happen here. This is a civilized country.

Then people who have it in the back of their mind that is a possibility one day there may be a tyrannical government that needs fighting against are marginalized. and unless you are a smart and eloquent person that can talk to that kind of audience, you simply won’t get through without coming across as a conspiracy nut.

So I concur. leave out the word tyranny until you can make someone understand the more immediate issue of violent crime and work up from there later.

Also, bear in mind the 2nd Amendment was not drafted wholly based on tyranny but, like much of the constitution and amendments, upon a deep understanding of history as a whole. That was the huge advantage of kick starting a whole new nation without baggage. It’s worth going and reading Lord Blackstone – an Englishman that had a heavy influence on the forming of the 2nd.

2nd Ammendment isn’t for only one angle. It covers many. and we don’t have to overwhelm people by zoning in on the nuclear option.

I’m slowly catching up with all the podcasts in my queue – the World Cup has put a dent in my listening schedule!

Ian Wright
F.A.S.T. O.C

j-E-mail number 2
This is an e-mail from listener Julian.
Congrats to Miss Rachel for getting a shout out on Tom Gresham’s national Gun Talk show from one of her Apple Seed students! Tom expressed an interest in learning more about Apple Seed and I thought it might be a chance for her to reach out to his show and get a little recognition for all her hard work and the PSP too.

r- The Polite Society download app is outon Amazon for Android and the I-phone app is in I-tunes and it is called Podcast Box.  They are located by our old name, Politics and guns.  Hot links are in our show notes.

j- Also please check out Kathy Jackson’s Cornered Cat training classes. Her next class that still has seats available is the weekend of July 12th and 13th in Walla Walla Washington. Go to Cornered Cat dot com for more classes and details.

Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?

j-Look at the shooters club by Bob Mayne and Ben Branam.  For $75.00 a year, $6.25 a month, you get 24/7 access to some fantastic training and audio podcasts that you can’t get anywhere else.  Subscribing from the link in our show notes helps Bob and Ben as well as helps us here at the Polite Society Podcast.

Join your local civil rights group like theNew Jersey Second Amendment Society,Arizona Citizens Defense League,Gun Owners of California, Commonwealth Second Amendment,  Connecticut Citizens Defense League,Florida Carry, Georgia Carry,Georgia Gun Owners,Grass Roots North Carolina,Illinois Carry, Maryland Shall Issue,  Michigan Gun Owners , Michigan Open Carry, and  Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners.

There are Minnesota Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance,  Nebraska Firearms Owners Association,   Citizens for a Safer New Jersey,New York State Rifle & Pistol Association,  Open Carry Texas, Texas Firearms Freedom, Texas State Rifle Association. Tennessee Firearms Association, Virginia Citizens Defense League, Virginia Open Carry,  West Virginia Citizens Defense League, wisconsingunowners.org, and Wyoming Gun Owners.

For our Canadian listeners, and their supporters, join theCanadian Shooting Sports Association and theCanadian National Firearms Association.  If YOUR state or local organization isn’t read each episode, then send us an email and we’ll add them!