Episode 249 – Jim Irvine and Molly Pitcher

Intro- “An armed society is a polite society.. and this is the Polite Society Podcast where we support and report on civilian self-defense.”

Rachel: Welcome to the polite society podcast recorded live on wednesday, July 2nd, 2014, I’m Rachel Malone.
John: I’m John Richardson, and we have an interview with Jim Irvine of Buckeye Firearms talking about training school staff to protect our children.
Rob: I’m Rob Morse and have an interview with Molly Pitcher of CATI-Austin talking about the upcoming Gunpowder and Lace ladies open carry walk.
Rachel, we have our usual weekly news and stories of defensive gun use, as well as Mary Ann Schow talking about gun games for our tips and tricks segment, so climb aboard
John: strap in
Rob: and hang on!
Rachel: Episode 249 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.
Show intro music.

Seg 1
Personal news from each participant
Rob- Dry practice and wondering about new training techniques.

John- Still waiting for a SIRT pistol coming out in M&P since I’m not a Glock fanboi.

Rachel- Gave a presentation along with a local CATI leader for TAG (Texans for Accountable Government). We talked about gun legislation in Texas – why it failed, good outcomes from that, and what we need from activists to get stuff done next spring in the legislative session. I like the way TAG functions – they encourage their members to take charge in their area of interest and provide support by facilitating communication to other activists who can help out.

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Seg 2- News

News_Partner_whiteRob- To open the news we have a rant from Rachel Malone. This one is about the heart of leadership, so let us know what is on your mind, Miss Malone.

I was asked the other day, “How many people do you have who would blindly follow you?”

My response: “Nobody, I hope.”

I don’t want people to follow me. Now, that might sound strange. I AM the leader of a gun rights organization, am I not? Aren’t I supposed to be leading the way? Why on earth would I NOT want people to follow me?!

I’ve got three reasons.

#1 – I’m not going to do your work for you.

The responsibility of running this country and holding elected officials accountable belongs to We the People. Last time I checked, I wasn’t a plural entity. I’m one person, and I’m responsible for myself. You’re another person, and you’re responsible for yourself. Get out there and do what you’re supposed to do.

Even though I am the director of a gun rights organization here in Texas – I want all you Texans out there to know, I’m not going to lobby for you. I’m going to lobby for myself. I’ll teach you how to lobby, I’ll teach you how to be involved, but I won’t do your work for you. Get out there and do the job yourselves!

Even if I wanted to be nice and do your work for you….

#2 – I’m not always right.

As hard as I work to research thoroughly and get my facts straight and present 100% correct information, I’m still very human. I’m going to mess up sometimes. It’s happened before, and it will certainly happen again. I’ll be responsible for my own mistakes, but please don’t try to make me responsible for yours.

Also, I may simply hold to a slightly different position than you on some things. So, perhaps our beliefs line up perfectly in most things but diverge in 10%. You’d be wrong to just blindly follow because you’d be violating your conscience in that 10%.

Even if I were always right and you knew you would always agree with me…

#3 – I want you to think for yourself.

If you end up following me, that’s great, but it has to be because you took time to consider the issue, look at the facts, and come to your own strong conviction that just happened to match up with mine.

A large part of what I’ve done with Texas Firearms Freedom is to take the time to do extensive research on an issue or on a piece of legislation, and then give people pertinent information on that bill. I DO give them my own conclusions and suggested action items as a convenience for them, but I always try to avoid pressuring people to just fall in line and do what I say.

My hope is that I can persuade people with logical arguments and facts, so that they take up my position with strong conviction. I don’t want passive agreement. I would rather have people believe what they believe with strong conviction whether they agree or disagree with me.

A person will fight for a belief with the same strength he believes it. So if you reach your conclusion by examining the facts and thinking for yourself, I think you’ll fight for it more strongly. You’ll have more reason to do so and more conviction that you’re right. You’ll be fighting for what YOU believe in. And THAT is what I want.

I don’t want to have people blindly follow me. I want people to think for themselves and reach their own conclusions and chart their own courses to complete their own missions. I want to help them understand the process of effecting change so they can achieve their goals. Sure, I’ll tell them what I think and try to be persuasive, but at the end of the day, I don’t want them to agree with me just because I said something and they follow me. If they agree, I want it to be because they believe strongly the same things that I do, and they have reached those conclusions themselves.

Beware of anyone who asks you to blindly follow. Be very wary of any organization that sends you an action item without any explanation. Be extremely cautious and ready to cut ties with anyone who tries to get you to quit thinking and just do what they want you to do. That’s not their place. It makes your job a little bit easier right now, but it’s a cop out. Quit copping out. Do your own thinking.

I should also note that I consciously operate in the same way. You can’t buy my vote or agreement just because you’re my friend or you voted with me or helped me with some project. I won’t decide to agree with you as a favor to you, or because I “owe you one.” I’m not just going to follow you blindly no matter who you are and how much I like you as a person (and, I’m not going to refuse to work with you no matter how much I dislike you). No, you have to earn my vote or agreement. You have to persuade me. You have to show me that you’re right and convince me of the reasons. Do that, and you earn my support.

And I hope, for at least some of you, I will help you to think through issues and convince you of my position and earn your support. But please – make me EARN it. Don’t ever blindly follow me.

-Comments? Thoughts?

Rob- Rachel, that is why we give our listener news and DGU, so they can make up their own mind.

John- Hear-hear

1- John – Let’s start off with good news. Thanks to your efforts, Gov. Chris Christie (R-NJ) has listened to us. He vetoed the bill, A2006/S993, which would have banned possession of magazines with greater than 10 round capacity. Christie said in his veto message that the bill was one of those “cheaply recycled answers that never really address the root causes” of violence”.  He goes on to say, “These advocates argue that forcing an unstable, untreated, and likely clinically ill shooter to pause to reload during a rampage will humanely spare lives. This is the very embodiment of reform in name only. “ ANJRPC Executive Director Scott Bach said, “The Governor clearly recognizes the difference between legislation that punishes violent criminals vs. legislation that targets the rights of law-abiding citizens.”

Rob 2 -It wasn’t a quiet weekend in the windy city or the big apple.  21 people were shot in New York city and 42 people shot in Chicago over the weekend.  Both cities are the epitome of gun control and big government.  Both your big gulp and your magazine capacity are regulated and registered, but the violent crimes just keep on coming.  Strange, but the city government hasn’t learned that over-regulating the honest people hasn’t controlled the behavior of criminals at all.

Rachel- Maybe their gun free zone sign is broken, and no one told them?
John- I don’t think they want to learn.
Rachel- I don’t think they care. Regulation is the goal, not the means.
Rob- I think you’re right.

Rachel- Here is more news from Chicago.  Richard Hernandez was supposed to stop gang violence as a paid “interrupter” in the anti-gang CeaseFire program.  Now Chicago cops have another name for Hernandez. They call him a rapist.  Hernandez faces 36 counts of sexual assault and kidnapping of a teenage girl while he worked for the anti-violence program.  Hernandez is one of  nine employees of the CeaseFire who faced serious criminal charges in recent years.  Their convictions included illegal weapons possession and drug charges.

John 4- Outside the corrupt city of Chicago, Illinois now has over 60 thousand licensed concealed carry holders since the state started accepting application in January.  Firearms sales often slump during the summer as people get busy, but sales of handguns and the request for training and licensing courses have continued to grow.


Rob- 5 As part of the American Civil Liberties Union’s recent report on police militarization, the Massachusetts chapter of the organization sent open records requests to SWAT teams across that state. They received a very interesting answer.  Small police department pool their resources and share a SWAT team.  The teams are operated by law enforcement councils, or LECs. These LECs are funded by several police agencies in a given geographic area and overseen by an executive board, which is usually made up of police chiefs from member police departments.  The LECs also facilitate technology and information sharing and oversee other specialized units, such as crime scene investigators and computer crime specialists.

This is the interesting part, the SWAT teams said they do not have to respond to freedom of information requests because they are not a state agency.  On the one hand, they claim that corporate status exempts them from open-records laws. On the other, they still claim the privilege of using deadly force on behalf of the state, and their evidence is admissable as a law enforcement officer.  I think someone has something to hide and needed better legal advice.

6 John – The California Legislature has now passed AB 1964 and sent it to Gov. Jerry Brown. The bill would eliminate the single-shot exemption to the Cal Handgun Roster. Only handguns originally made as single shots would be exempted. A firearm that was converted would have to be on the roster or it would be outlawed for sale. The Firearms Policy Coalition has an page up urging Gov. Brown to veto the bill. Links are in the show notes. They are also asking people to make their voice heard on SB 53 which would ban online sales of ammo in California (among other things). A link for that is up as well.

Rachel 7- Will the last manufacturer to leave the blue states please turn out the lights.  PTR left Connecticut and gave a commemorative rifle to the Governor of its new home in South Carolina.  Remington moved some of its production lines from New York to Alabama.  Sturm Ruger & Co Inc is building a 220,000-square-foot building in North Carolina. Colt which is also headquartered in Connecticut, moved its shop to Texas at the end of 2013.  Beretta abandoned Maryland and moved to Tennessee shortly after Maryland lawmakers banned assault weapons’ sales.  The reasons are simple.  These companies moved because of laws, costs and people.  They found more of what they wanted in other states.

John – comment – I hope to visit the PTR factory in a couple of weeks when we vacation at Myrtle Beach. Maybe I’ll come back with an interview.

Rob- They don’t build airplanes in California any more, and they don’t build cars in detroit any longer.

John 8- If you felt a bump in the night, it was a wave of freedom felt on July 1 as several states recognized more rights of self defense.  In Georgia, the guns everywhere bill went into effect with 12 new pro-defense provisions in state law.  Even purple Virginia had seven new pro hunting provisions take effect.  Mississippi had three bills become law that limit local pre-emption, exempts disabled veterans from paying hunting license fees, and created a tax holiday for hunting and fishing equipment.  A Tennessee bill will allow a gun owner to carry his firearm in his car without a permit while a second Tennessee bill makes it illegal to harass hunters and fishermen with drones.  Blue state Maryland allowed Sunday hunting, expanded hunting season, and instituted special classes to teach hunters to cull the overpopulation of deer in some Maryland counties.

Rob 9-Ahh, smell the freedom.. except in Los Angeles, California.  There the stupid is still strong.  The LA City Council proposed a 10 round magazine capacity ban.  That would make possessing large-capacity magazines a misdemeanor.  It would eliminate any grandfather exemption and demand standard capacity magazines be surrendered in 60 days.  There are of course exceptions for law enforcement and museum collections.  None of these new laws would have stopped the latest killer in Santa Barbara.

John Comment-  Somehow the criminals will ignore our 23 thousand gun laws, but obey this one.

Rob Comment- The stupid is everywhere in LA.

Rachel 10- Last episode we reported on the Federal district judge who denied the appeal of Colorado sheriffs to rescind the new Colorado gun restrictions.

Rob- Comment- Is this the same judge who took data from before the background check law went into effect to show that people didn’t use background checks?

Rachel – Yep, that is the judge.  Well the sheriffs have decided to appeal her ruling.

Weld County Sheriff John Cooke said,  “These laws are unconstitutional and unenforceable due to the way they are written.”

Rob- John and I met Sheriff Cooke.  I remember him.


11 John- The Bloomberg funded group “Moms demand action” was asked to leave a Target department store in San Antonio, Texas.  The group demand that Target refuse service to licensed concealed carry holders.  The daughter of one of the protesters was murdered in a gun free zone.. so they want to turn all Target stores into gun-free zones.

Rob- What?  I can imagine this in Dallas, but Austin.

12 John – Unfortunately, Target has now issued a “Starbucks” type of statement regarding the carry of firearms in their stores. They say, “But starting today we will also respectfully request that guests not bring firearms to Target – even in communities where it is permitted by law.” I take this to mean that while they won’t post their stores, they want their stores to be unofficially gun-free zones. While Everyday Moms for Illegal Mayors is claiming victory, a spokewoman for Target clarified that “It is not a ban,” she said. “There is no prohibition.” Nonetheless, it is a PR win for the anti’s.

Rachel- There is stupid even in Texas, but not much.

Rob 13- Really, Rachel, then explain this.  Dallas County has an agreement with a private gun range to accept the firearms taken from people charged with domestic abuse or the subject of a protective order.  Jan Langbein, CEO of Genesis Women’s Shelter said, “Imagine how much better victims would sleep at night knowing all the guns had been removed.”  I say, “Imagine how helpless the victims will feel if their abuser drops a dime on them and has the victim disarmed by the cops.”

John- My lawyer can beat up your lawyer.

Rob- Exactly.

Rachel- Comment- Are you guys picking on Texas?

Rob- I know restraining orders are fairly common in divorce cases, but I’ve never found an example of someone charged for making false claims of domestic abuse.  The liars are simply never prosecuted.

Rachel 14-  There  is no workable definition of an assault rifle, yet many anti-gun politicians use exactly that pejorative term Assault Rifle to ban modern sporting rifles.  Well Ares Defense has come up with an AR-15 configuration that going to frustrate the gun grabbers.  It doesn’t have a flash suppressor or bayonet lug.  It has a conventional stock, yet it uses stock AR uppers.  It operates like an AR.  Eats ammo like an AR, and it shoots like an AR, but it looks just like any other semi-automatic hunting rifle.

Comment- A few pounds of freedom coming to an over-regulated gun-banning jurisdiction near you.

John15-More cops are doing it right.  The Paragould, Arkansas Police Department trained citizens  to carry concealed.  The one-day class covered the laws surrounding handguns and how to properly handle, fire and care for them. Students then went to the range with instructors for a live-fire practice session.  One instructor said the class is important because it also teaches students how to avoid becoming a victim. “Not just teaching them the specifics about carry and conceal, where you can carry, where you can’t carry, but give them information that they can use in their daily lives.  Be aware of your surroundings and reduce the chances, of having to use that concealed handgun to defend themselves or a loved one.”  Classes are available each month until October.  This is the department’s nineteenth year teaching the class.

Rob, I read about some other departments doing this.  Good for them.

John – Kathi Jackson will join us on Saturday night.

Rob Gun Quotes

A gun is no more dangerous than a cricket bat in the hands of a madman. Prince Philip

Rachel-Coming right up, we have an interview with Molly Pitcher of CATI-Austin regarding an upcoming special event, as well as an interview with Jim Irvine of Buckeye Firearms, so stay tuned.

The Gunpowder and Lace Walk sponsored by CATI Austin will be held Saturday, July 12, 10:30 AM at the Capitol Visitors Parking Garage (12th st. and San Jacinto). Participants will meet on the corner for a safety briefing and then walk down Congress Ave. to 6th Street. Ladies, bring your black powder pistols and/or long guns. Chamber checks will be conducted as always to ensure safety (no round in the chamber for long guns). Long guns should be carried on a sling in a way that keeps the muzzle in a safe direction at all times.  More Info.  Facebook event page.  CATI TX page

Hang on everybody, we’ll be right back after this interview with Jim Irvine of Buckeye Firearms.

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Seg 3 Interviews
Segment 4 DGUs

Rachel 1- It is good to have friends with guns in Pennsylvania.  Christopher Vazques and an associate robbed a 60 year old man in front of the victim’s house, taking his valuables and keys.  The victim recognized them and called police.  Because his keys were taken, the victim stayed outside to protect his car.  The thieves came back to take the car and they began beating the victim when he said he’d reported the earlier crime to police.  Moments later a neighbor yelled for the two men to stop beating the victim.  The neighbor fired one shot, striking Vazquez in the chest.  The criminal died at the hospital.  The shooter was taken into custody and released without charges.

Rob- Police were called to the Step-N-Style in Dayton Ohio before noon.  Two armed and masked men entered the store and demanded cash.  The store had been robbed before, only this time the store owner was armed.  He shot one of the armed robbers, and his accomplice fled.  Police later identified the dead criminal as 16 year old Isiah Haggins, Jr.

He lived with his grandmother, and the family was surprized by his armed criminal behavior.

Very few criminals start with armed robbery.  The start with stealing property, then burglary, then, finally muggings and armed robbery.  Maybe this young man was different, but for most criminals committing armed robbery, it isn’t their first crime.

John – The manager of La Bodega Mexican restaurant was happy that an off-duty Midland (Texas) Police detective was eating in his restaurant this past Friday night. That is because Nyocomus Garnett, 35, entered the restaurant through its backdoor intent on committing armed robbery. After Garnett fired several shots in the kitchen, he exited into the restaurant where he was met by the off-duty detective who told him to drop his handgun. Garnett refused and then tried to shoot the detective. That is when the detective shot and killed Garnett. No patrons or restaurant staff were injured in the robbery attempt. Police say that Garnett had an “extensive history” with Midland law enforcement.


We have the links to each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com if you want to share them with a friend.

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Tips and tricks segment with Mary Ann Schow on gun games. Trivial Pursuit, Battleship, Yatzie and old maid.

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Segment 5 Show close

Listener e-mail discussion
Rachel- From listener Chris Gillespie
I was a local store purchasing a monthly gun magazine. I reached the check out counter and the clerk asked if I concealed carry. I was thrown off guard by this question. I said “lets hope we never have to find out if I do.” How would you guys have answered that question?
Comments- Rachel? John? Rob?

Rob: The Polite Society download app is out on Amazon for Android and the I-phone app is in I-tunes and it is called Podcast Box.  They are located by our old name, Politics and guns.  Hot links are in our show notes.

John: Also please check out Kathy Jackson’s Cornered Cat training classes. Her next class that still has seats available is the weekend of July 12th and 13th in Walla Walla Washington. Go to Cornered Cat dot com for more classes and details.

Rachel John, do you have any new posts from your Blog, No Lawyers, only guns and money you want to mention?

John: I do. I did a post Monday about the story we discussed a bit earlier. It was about the Target store in San Antonio that ushered the gun control protesters off their property. The organizer made a comment that stuck me with me. She said they were “armed with children and clipboards.” The UN and all responsible and moral people have condemned the use of children as soldiers. While qualitatively different than the warlords in the Congo and elsewhere, it is still using innocent children as tools and props in a war against gun rights.

Rob- Well said, John Richardson.

Rachel: Also please check out the shooters club by Bob Mayne and Ben Branam.  For $75.00 a year, $6.25 a month, you get 24/7 access to some fantastic training and audio podcasts that you can’t get anywhere else.

John: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast. Until the weekend show…
Rob: stay safe,
Rachel: be aware,
John: and we’ll see you down the road.