Episode 236 – Responsible Activisim

Intro- “An armed society is a polite society.. and this is the Polite Society Podcast where we support and report on civilian self-defense.”

Paul: Welcome to the polite society podcast recorded live on Saturday, May 10th, 2014. I’m Paul Lathrop
Rachel: I’m Rachel Malone and on tonights show we’ll have a rant from Rob on responsible activism.
John: I’m John Richardson, and we’ll talk about self-defense news
Rob: I’m Rob Morse and we have our weekly stories of defensive gun use
Rachel: so climb aboard
John: strap in
Rob: and hang on!
Paul: Episode 236 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.
Show intro music.

Seg 1
Personal news from each participant
Rob- On Thursday I spoke at Los Angeles West Side NRA members council meeting. That chapter is full of activists. They are there with a table and literature if there is a public gathering larger than a yard sale. LA traffic stinks, and I took the train up and back. Got home after midnight. John, the new Mojo sight for our Mosin came in. Maybe I can fit them tomorrow.

Rachel- I went on a CATI walk today (CATI stands for “Come And Take It” and is an open carry group in Texas). We marched from the Capitol to Town Lake and back and engaged with several very interested individuals who loved what we were doing. We ladies also made some plans for our upcoming Gunpowder and Lace walk – the first CATI-Austin ladies’ open carry march, where only the ladies will be allowed to open carry. Stay tuned – that’s July 12.

John – I’m a slacker as I have no real news to add. I’ve only worked and piddled around doing nothing important since our last podcast.


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Seg 2- News



Rob’s rant- Dear radicals.  I support liberty, and I know it has many branches. That said, I’ll condemn you if you do stupid things in public that undermine the progress of liberty.  As supporters of liberty, it is our job to persuade the public.  You don’t get to do stupid things in public and then tell the public they took it the wrong way.  Using the right of self-defense as an example, you better know how your message is perceived before you open carry an AR while you’re half naked in black face and camouflage while you march in front of a day care center.

Can you do such a thing?  Sure, for a while.  We absolutely have the right to do foolish things, but we can’t demand the public agree and support us.

Other people get to make up their own minds about what we’ve done.  They are free to decide for themselves.  What a radical thought.  You have to compete for hearts and minds.  If you’re only out for attention, then you’re not out to win hearts and minds.

The public is as it is.  My neighbors think what they think.  We don’t get to argue with public perception and claim we were “misunderstood” if we do something stupid and are widely condemned.  That attitude of “you’re all idiots  and don’t understand my clever demonstration” is immature and self-righteous.  Grown ups ask question before they make public statements so they know how their actions will be received.  This is true in every public debate.

Sure you have the right to scream that abortionists are murderers and pour red dyBe on your cloths and the sidewalk.  Don’t be surprised if the public tunes you out.  You can call out taxation as theft by a gun wielding government, but don’t be surprised if the public doesn’t listen.  You can wear a white sheet and carry a gun and claim you’re supporting the right of free expression.  There is a difference between persuasive debate and radical public demonstration.  You have the right to be stupid and offensive.

Said another way, you can destroy liberty by stupidly abusing it, so put on your grown up pants and act like an adult.  I don’t blame the ill-informed and uninterested public for their phone calls to the politician after your public display.  I don’t blame the politician for his knee jerk reaction to the phone calls.  I blame you, and welcome to the grown up world, bubba and bubbette.  With great power comes great responsibility.

You are responsible for how you are perceived, and heaven knows the media wants lovers of liberty look like crazy fools.  Fortunately, we can test public reaction before we act.  We can also test political reaction before we act.  This is hard work, and no one forces the lazy radical to do it.

I understand the urge to feel radical and righteous, but you don’t get any credit from me for pleasing yourself in the public square.  There is a name for that, and you were supposed to learn self-control back in junior high school.  Hold on to your passion, but don’t play with it in public.  Take a minute to study the problem of public persuasion so you are effective in changing minds and hearts the way you intend.  The radical activist can alienate anyone he wants, but he is not the friend of liberty.  /Rant off/

John- A Wisconsin police chief did the right thing at the right time.  This story started when a Wisconsin citizen open carried at a park in Oconomowoc.( Oh-Con-O-Mo-Woc) Someone took a picture of it and complained to the police chief.  Then a local news NBC news outlet filed a report that it is illegal to carry on public property.  Chief David Beguhn reviewed the city ordinance and reported that it violates the Wisconsin state pre-emption laws on firearms.  I think the chief got this one right.

Rob- If you’re going to bring a gun to the park, you had better be a respected and recognized member of the daddy-squad.. or else you’re simply showing off your gun in public.


Rachel- A New Hampshire lawmaker argued against legislation that would ban recipients of food stamps and welfare from using electronic bank transfer cards to buy a gun or ammunition.  Democrat State Representative Timothy Horrigan said, “The firearms ban is a blatant violation of the Second Amendment. Cash benefit recipients presumably have the same rights as the rest of us to purchase guns for hunting, sports shooting, or even self-defense. Obviously they don’t have much money to spend on that, but they do have the right under the Second Amendment to do so.”  He added that the ban against such purchases seemed ironic because many of the ban’s supporters are pro-Second Amendment.

Rob- Alan Korwin and his company TrainMeAZ won his First Amendment lawsuit against the City of Phoenix on Thursday. The Arizona Court of Appeals ruled that the Superior Court had erred in granting judgment for the City of Phoenix and its transportation system. TrainMeAZ has contracted to put up advertisements in bus shelters around Phoenix promoting firearms training in the wake of passage of Arizona’s constitutional carry legislation. The city took them down after they were put up saying they failed to promote a commercial transaction. The Court of Appeals found that Phoenix violated Korwin’s First Amendment rights by how they applied their own revised advertising standards.

Rachel- Believe half of what you see and none of what you hear.. from the mainstream news media.  They would tell you the sky is falling in order to deliver a few more eyes and ears to their advertisers.  That appears to be what happened in Fort Worth, Texas.  News sources claimed employees at Fort Worth Jack in the Box hid in a freezer and called police after an open carry group came in to eat.  That claim isn’t true, but a patron in the restaurant called into 911, and she and the police both panicked.  The Fort Worth Police Department owes the public, the media, and Open Carry Texas an apology or explanation for their overreaction.

John- A Colorado city steals citizens’ firearms.  Sara Warren was in an accident in late March.  She was taken by ambulance to the Poude Valley Hospital, where her firearm was turned over to Fort Collins Police.  Now the police claim they can not return her weapon without a search through the NICS database and using an FFL transfer to return her firearm.  The Fort Collins Police don’t have an FFL on staff, so claim they can’t return her Sara Warren’s gun.  I bet if the guns were being transfered TO the police rather than FROM the police, they would find a way to use a private FFL and make the transfer.

Rob- The mayor needs to be removed from office.  That will help a new police chief act properly.  I’m glad I didn’t take that job in Fort Collins.

Rob – Good for Missouri.  On Wednesday the Missouri Senate voted to put a bill to the voters that defines the right to bear arms as “unalienable” and requires the state to defend against any “infringement” of that right. It would also include keeping ammunition and defending one’s “family” with a firearm as guaranteed constitutional rights.  The bill already passed the Missouri House.  Activists supporting the right of self-defense say the measure would force courts to use a higher standard of review when considering the constitutionality of gun control in Missouri.

Rachel – And good for Oklahoma.  The Oklahoma Senate followed the House in overriding Governor Mary Fallin’s veto of a pro gun bill on federal gun regulations. The bill requires law enforcement authorities to certify within 15 days that a NFA firearm applicant is eligible to receive a firearm under federal regulations. The bill now becomes law without the governor’s signature.  The override is the first veto override since Fallin took office in 2011.

John– Gun rights attorney Alan Gura has filed a second Writ of Mandamus with the US Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia in the case of Palmer v. DC. The plaintiffs are challenging DC’s total ban on carry – open or concealed – outside the home. The case has been going on since Oct. 2009 and is on its second judge. It has been 20 months since the parties argued the case in court and there still isn’t a decision. Judge Frederick Scullin promised a decision within a short period of time. The Writ of Mandamus is a legal writ asking that the District Court be compelled to render a decision.

John – Gun Quotes
A shout out to Jeff Hulsey, we got this gun quote off of his Facebook feed,
“For the last damn time, ‘assault weapon’ is a purely invented term, designed by politicians to mislead the public into thinking consumers can buy machine guns at Wal-Mart. They can’t. In the political world at least, ‘assault weapon’ means nothing more than ‘semi-automatic rifle that has a few cosmetic features that we do not like.'” -National Review‘s Charles C. W. Cooke

Hang on everybody, we’ll be right back after this
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Seg 3 Interviews
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Segment 4 DGUs

John – As Detroit resident Paris Ainsworth, a Michigan concealed carry permit holder, was arriving home from work, she was approached by two men in her own driveway. Before getting out of her car she put her .45 pistol in her pocket. One of the thugs saw that she had a firearm and told her not to pull it. He then shot her in the side three times and once in her weakside hand. Paris proved that just because you’ve been shot you aren’t out of the fight. She returned fire and wounded her assailants. She then waited for police and EMS to arrive. The assailants were arrested at the hospital when they sought treatment.

She praises Detroit police for the help they gave that night, but she is convinced that law-abiding citizens need to protect themselves.

“He didn’t shoot me because he felt that I was going to shoot him. He didn’t care. He just shot. He didn’t look like, ‘Oh my God I shouldn’t have.’ He just had the devil in him,” she said.

Ainsworth is 51 years old. She has four grandsons and works in health care. She has two handguns and trains regularly.

Rachel -An elderly resident of rural St. Clair County, Missouri called police just after noon to report a burglary in progress.  The intruder entered the home and the homeowner fired one shot and fled to the other end of his home.  The police arrived to find a body in the driveway.  Police say the homeowner is a widower in his 70s and evidence supports the homeowner’s story.

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Segment 5 Show close

Arizona VA hospital scandal

Paul- We have the links to each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com if you want to share them with a friend.

Listener e-mail discussion

Paul – Email #1 from Jake
I felt the need to write in to your show after I heard your episode where being open to your friends and family about your gun interests was compared to “coming out” as gay or lesbian.

I’m an absolute gun nut – I carry when ever I can, shoot IDPA, and am working on tuning handloads to my .308 rifle. I spend far too much of my limited funds on guns, ammo, and shooting accessories. I call my congress critters every time a 2A bill comes up, and I generally vote pro-gun. I’m also a bisexual dating another man.

It’s been said that coming out as gay or lesbian is the most powerful act of political activism you can make. My own grandpa was pretty anti-gay when I was growing up. He wasn’t hateful or aggressive about it, but he was always disapproving whenever there was a flamboyant gay man on TV, or LGBT issues came up in conversation. We have always been close, since he first put a .22 in my hands, taught me to shoot, and told me stories about his many years in law enforcement. Because of this, I was very nervous when I came out to him last year, since I didn’t want to lose our relationship. Thankfully, and after a brief period of awkwardness, we’re as close as we always were. I think what helped change his mind was that he knew me – He had literally watched me grow up, loved me, taught me, and knew I was a good person at heart. He couldn’t reconcile the grandson he knew with what he thought of gays, and eventually, his views of gays had to change.

While “coming out” as a gun guy shouldn’t be nearly as hard as coming out as gay (not many young teens are homeless because they’re a gun owner, for example), I think it can be just as effective a tool at changing people’s minds. The more good, decent, and kind people they know who carry guns and support the second amendment, the less they believe the anti-gunners painting 2A supporters as hateful, violent racists, or that the “gun lobby” is a vast, monolithic conspiracy of evil corporations bent on profit. After all, they know the “gun lobby.” They’re the nice folks down the street who invited them to a BBQ last week, or that guy at the office who helped them with that project last week.

As a parting note, I’m glad to see that you guys don’t seem to be anti-gay. I’d love to see the gay community calling the democratic legislators they elected and demanding gun rights. I’m sure that would make Bloomberg’s head spin!


Rob- Email #2 from Kevin
Hey there!
Great podcast, I listen every week.
Just an update for you on the CCWs being issued here in The OC…
My initial interview date was scheduled for next February ( I was one of the early ones to apply), but with their hiring of retired deputies to process the backlog, I’ve had my interview, been fingerprinted, got my training, and I should have my permit in the next couple of weeks! I gotta say, they’ve really stepped it up! (Well, by California standards)
Anyway, thanks for all you do and keep it up.
Anaheim, CA

Paul: The Polite Society download app is outon Amazon for Android and the I-phone app is in I-tunes.  They are located by our old name, Politics and guns.  Hot links are in our show notes.

Rachel: We’re experimenting with the show all the time.  Please send us an e-mail to tell us what you like or dislike.  You can contact the show by e-mail.   Email Onair@ad7.8f3.myftpupload.com to hear your email read on the air. If you would like to email any of the hosts directly just email their first name and then add at politics and guns dot com..  Call 605-215-1438 to hear your voice on the air!

Rob: That’s 605- 215- 1438

Rob: Roadgunner’s Mag 40 class in Conway, Arkansas at Shoot House USA is scheduled for May 15th thru 18th 2014 you can register here.

Paul- Also please check out Kathy Jackson’s Cornered Cat training classes. Her next class is the weekend of May 17 in Philadelphia. Go to Cornered Cat dot com for more classes and details. Also please remember that Kathy will be bringing that Cornered Cat class to Sioux Falls the 15th and 16th of August. Registration should open soon, so keep listening. As soon as registration opens we will give the details.I am not hosting the class this year as I am totally overwhelmed with other things that are going on. I will be there to help out, and my wife Susan will be taking the class.

Paul: Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?

Rob, yes I said gun owners are refusing to comply with crazy gun laws.

Rachel: Also please check out the shooters club by Bob Mayne and Ben Branam.  For $75.00 a year, $6.25 a month, you get 24/7 access to some fantastic training and audio podcasts that you can’t get anywhere else.  Bob is giving away his M&P Shield to one lucky member.

John: Listen to other podcasts on thethe Crusader Podcast Network.

Here is a shout-out to slamfire radio, but the polite society podcast has more facebook likes than they do.

Rob: Join theNational Rifle Association,Second Amendment Foundation,Gun Owners of America andJews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership.  Joining two makes you a hero.  Supporting all four makes you a super hero.

Paul: Join your local civil rights group like theNew Jersey Second Amendment Society,Arizona Citizens Defense League,Gun Owners of California,Connecticut Citizens Defense League,Florida Carry, Georgia Carry,Georgia Gun Owners,Grass Roots North Carolina,Illinois Carry,Michigan Gun Owners , Michigan Open Carry,

Rachel: and Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners, Minnesota Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance, Nebraska Firearms Owners Association,   Citizens for a Safer New Jersey,Open Carry Texas, Texas Firearms Freedom, Texas State Rifle Association. Tennessee Firearms Association, West Virginia Citizens Defense League and Wyoming Gun Owners.

John: For our Canadian listeners, and their supporters, join theCanadian Shooting Sports Association and theCanadian National Firearms Association

Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast. Until the weekend show…
Rob: stay safe,
Rachel: be aware,
John: and we’ll see you down the road.

Other- This show copyright 2014 Paul Lathrop and Polite Society Podcast