Episode 481 – News and DGUs


Paul : Welcome to the polite society podcast powered by the Firearms Policy Coalition recorded on Wednesday, January 30th, 2019, I’m Paul Lathrop

John: I’m John Richardson, and we’ll talk about the Supreme Court finally accepting another 2A case

Gary: I’m Gary Daugherty and we have a DGU over a parking spot… so climb aboard

Grant: strap in

John : and hang on!

Paul:  episode 481 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.

Show intro music

Personal news from each participant (when you are done with your segment please ask the next person what has been up with them)

John – I had a great time at the SHOT Show and chatted with a lot of people who have been on the show in the past. They ranged from Brandon Combs to Yehuda Remer, Cheryl Todd, and Willes Lee plus everyone in between. The show was so busy that I didn’t even finally see Amy Dillon until Thursday! My roommate for the show was Prof. David Yamane who was there doing research for his book on Gun Culture 2.0. As for the show itself, many said it was characterized more by line extensions than really new stuff and I would agree.


Grant – well busy busy! I just finished the first USCCA class run from ScotShot, their Basic Pistol class. This is, as they say, not your grandfather’s Basic Pistol class. It is very much orientated to the defensive use of handguns rather than the more recreational use supported by the NRA in their basic classes, and the students enjoyed it a lot. I also took Tracy’s comments last week to heart and have inserted an “aim small, miss small” element into my regular training. This week’s episode on that front was a five-pointed star with a 0.75 inch target at each point, shot at five yards, which I managed with both my 365 and my p226. Like we said last week, it’s all about the trigger, and here’s a general question, what regular things to people include in their training?


Promo about upcoming training classes here.

Grant – I want to remind everyone out there that National Train a Teacher day is July 20th this year, anyone in the Chicago/Illinois area can reach out to Gary Daugherty from the show to find out what he is doing, or to me for our offering, or to your local trainer. I’m also pleased to say that our first USCCA Instructor class is full, and that we will be welcoming Klint Macro to lead the class at the beginning of February, with other classes coming up over the summer. You can contact me about all our classes at Grant at scotshot dot com.




Ask listeners to listen to other shows on the network, name at least 2 shows.

Grant – I like “Modern Self Protection” and “Mind4Survival”


2- News

POLITE SOCIETY NEWS, January 28th 2019

Hi everyone. Please remember to send your comments on the news to “onair@politicsandguns.com”




In the matter of Docket number 18-280, New York State Rifle and Pistol Association v the City of New York, The Supreme Court of the United States has decided to hear the case on whether the City of New York can continue with its ban on New Yorkers taking their lawful handguns out of the City.

The case is expected to be heard in October of this year.

Current law is that legal gun owners may not transport their handguns outside of the city, even if the gun is licensed, locked and unloaded. The Association argues that this prevents owners from taking their guns to second homes, hunting trips and firing ranges for self-defense, recreational or competition purposes.

The plaintiffs claim that the ban violates the Second Amendment, the Commerce Clause of the Constitution, and the constitutional right to travel. The Second Circuit Court of Appeals sided with the City, saying the there were seven firing ranges in the city where the guns could be used.

The case is significant in that it is the first 2A case the Court has heard in almost 10 years. It is widely speculated that the acceptance of the case is indicative of the President’s influence on the Court.

The  case has raised great hope that if it succeeds, it will open the way for more open transportation of personal firearms generally.



John –

Gary –




In Illinois Senate Bill SB-107, Senator Julie Morrison has introduced a dramatic gun-ban proposal.

Her Bill will ban all semi-automatic handguns and rifles that are *capable* of accepting a magazine that holds over 10 rounds.

This is much more aggressive than banning the magazines themselves. It would mean that virtually every firearm that accepts a detachable magazine would be banned. So, every AR or AK, every Glock, Sig and HK handgun, every 1911, all would fall under the ban proposed in this new legislation. Every 10/22 rifle also.

The proposed legislation also bans semi-automatic shotguns that can hold 5 rounds.

The Bill would allow grandfathering of existing firearms, with a registration costing $25 per gun.

Some commentators are speculating that this is redundant, because they are anticipating a separate magazine capacity law, that new Governor Pritzker will sign, however we hope that everyone will see the difference.

We expect that this bill, if passed into Law, will be subject to litigation, where the State will doubtless argue that it is not a ban, because existing firearms can be registered (but no new guns will be available).

This sweeping gun-grab comes hard on the heels of a Bill introduced into the IL house, House Bill 0888, which amends the conditions of the “FOID” card to require the State Police to search  a purchasers social media accounts to.

“… determine if there is any information that would disqualify the person from obtaining or require revocation of a currently valid Firearm Owner’s Identification Card…”

Of course that means that FOID card holders need to turn in the names of all such accounts.

Is there no end to how Illinois is taking control of the citizens? How far behind is the Federal House, under Pelosi?


John – HB 888 might better have been numbered 666! The Mass AG is trying to use that same wording “capable” to ban new ARs.

Gary –






Businessman, benefactor, one-time NYC mayor, and likely 2020 presidential candidate Michael Bloomberg came out in favor of more guns on the street recently, but not in the way we normally think of this concept.

No, the man who wants to disarm all of us is now proposing a little private army to patrol Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore, where he is a major funding benefactor. He said bluntly that it is “ridiculous” that the University doesn’t have an armed police force.

He said, “When you have a city that has the murder rate that Baltimore has, I think it’s ridiculous to think that they shouldn’t be armed.”, discussing the Hopkins security force.

Bloomberg spoke to reporters after a closed-door meeting with Democrat lawmakers and the state Attorney General. The University is seeking approval from the General Assembly for a private police force to patrol, the campus, the hospital campus and the Peabody Institute.

The proposal has the support of the Senate President. Others are concerned that a private police force won’t be properly accountable to the public.

Previously, the idea of a private place force for Johns Hopkins was rejected following public disagreement. Now, Mr Bloomberg is proposing it again. A group called “Students Against Private Police” – SAPP for short – say this move runs counter to Mr Bloomberg’s well known stance on gun control. However, he says it is “irrational” for the school and hospital not to have armed security.



Gary –




It is interesting how, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary, some lawmakers persist with the idea that schools are saver when those in charge are unable to respond rapidly to an armed attack, such as we have seen in Parkland almost a year ago.

Maryland legislator Cheryl Glenn sponsored House Bill 31. This bill would have allowed the Baltimore city police officers who are on duty at city schools, to be armed while students and staff were present.

The matter came before the school board where it was rejected unanimously, 10-to-zero, after a vigorous debate, with arguments being presented on both sides. Ms Glenn said that as a result, she was going to withdraw the Bill because it would have no chance given the total opposition of the school board, and the Mayor.

Ironically, those same police officers *do* carry their firearms while at the school, but only before and after teaching hours. Baltimore is the only part of Maryland where the schools are patrolled by Police officers. Elsewhere, the duty falls to local sheriff departments, and these officers *are* armed.

Grant –



Gary –




While we often hear about the political activities of the NRA, usually in a bad light from the mainstream media, we hear less about what it does to promote the shooting and outdoor sports at a grass-roots level.

One thing it does do is sponsor the “Great American Outdoor Show” every year in the PA State capital of Harrisburg. This year, the NRA announced $50,000 in grants, in advance of the Show. This brings the total grants to almost $250,000 in the last five years.

This year, grants go to six organizations.

The Susquehanna Township Police Department will get money to purchase on-body cameras for their police officers.

The Pennsylvania American Legion in Wormleysburg will get help to support their State Police Youth Week firearms training course for high school juniors and seniors.

The York Rifle Range Association will get money to supports its youth air rifle program.

The South Mountain YMCA Camps will get important dollars to support archery, air rifle, trap shooting and 22 rifle for children age six to seventeen.

The Pennsylvania Rifle and Pistol association will receive a grant to expand junior shooting programs across the state, and finally,

The Palmyra Sportsmen’s Association will receive a grant to promote national programs in competitive shotgun, in the Harrisburg area

Like any large organization there are things to like and things to dislike about the NRA, but let’s not forget about the good that they do for us, and the next generation.



Gun Quotes

(suggestion by Grant: “I didn’t serve 20 years to come home and have politicians trash the Bill of Rights”, and that’s from retired Air Force Colonel Val Finnel, speaking in Pittsburgh recently.)

More: http://www.catb.org/esr/fortunes/rkba.html


Hang on everybody, we’ll be back.

5- DGUs  (at beginning) These discussions are NOT legal advice. Some of us are trainers, but this is not formal training and YOU NEED formal training. The Defensive Gun Use segment is intended as information, NOT as training. As always the opinions of the hosts are only their own opinions and not those of any sponsors or other affiliations.

Grant  – Sumter, South Carolina

The truth will always come out.

Police were called out to the Manchester Road area recently to investigate a report of shots fired.  They talked to two women who were robbed at gunpoint by a man who pulled up behind their vehicle as they were parked in the driveway of a residence.  He told them to hand over their purses and jewelry.

After complying, but still fearing for her safety, one of the women retrieved a handgun from inside the vehicle and fired in the direction of the robber, who then drove off.

About 30 minutes later, Police went to an area hospital to check on a man who had come in with a gunshot wound.  The man told police that he had been shot in the Manning and Atlantic Avenues area. They investigated and found no evidence that shots had been fired in that area.

They were able to link a vehicle seen in the area of the earlier robbery, and the description of the robber, back to the man being treated.  He was arrested and booked on various charges, after being treated and released by the hospital.


John – Inkster, Michigan

Parking spots are not really to die for.

What started as a dispute over a parking spot ended up with the death of one of two men.  The 34 year old Dearborn, Michigan man got into an argument over a spot with a 25 year old man at an Inkster gas station.  The younger man punched the other man but didn’t knock him down. He then backed off.

The Dearborn man then pulled his gun and chased and confronted the younger man.  He pointed his gun, but the younger man pulled out his own weapon and fired shots at Dearborn man

He remained at the scene and surrendered his firearm to police.  Although he was originally the aggressor in the altercation, he had broken off the engagement and was aggressor no longer.

Wayne County Prosecutor Kym Worthy said, “The 25-year-old had the right to use deadly force to defend himself because he had a reasonable belief that imminent death or great bodily harm would occur. For this reason the warrant for his arrest has been denied.”

The incident had been captured on video surveillance.


Gary – Festus, Missouri

Nothing good happens after midnight.

Police were called to a home at 3:45 AM and found couple with their son dead from a gunshot wound.

The father told police that his son has been drinking earlier and he found him on top of his mother with his hands around her neck.  The father hit his son in the back of his head with the butt of a revolver.

The son got off his mother and threw the father across the room.  He made threats to his life. He told him, “Now you have messed up, and advanced towards the older man.

The disparity in age between the 63 year old father and the 29 year old son left the man fearing his son.  He fired several shots.

Police arrested and booked the man on suspicion of murder but released him pending application of warrants.  The mother did have minor injuries.


John – Jefferson County, MO has a bad problem with meth and opioids. I’m wondering if either was involved in this incident.

Paul – Lulling, Louisiana

A man tried to rob a Thrift Village drug store on a Monday at 6PM.  He forced the clerk and pharmacist behind the counter and demanded drugs.

A scuffle started before the POGO practicing pharmacist pulled his weapon and fired at the masked man.  The criminal ran out of the store and went about 100 yards before collapsing behind the store.

He died where he lay.


John – Georgetown, South Carolina

What started with a carjacking, ended with the suspect in the hospital.

Two cars were stolen then one of the carjackers went to a Boost Mobile where he entered the store dressed as a woman and wearing a wig.  When he tried to rob the store at gunpoint, the clerk pulled his own weapon and a shootout broke out between the two. The suspect was shot and fled the scene.

He drove to a Sunoco station where he was picked up by a woman in a car that had  also been carjacked. She drove him to a hospital where his condition was found to be “stable”.

The woman was identified.  Both cars were tracked to their owners,  and carjacking warrants had been obtained for both suspects.


We post each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com  Please take a minute and share them with a friend.


6- E-mail, blog notes, and show close

Listener e-mail discussion

Paul: Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?

Rob- Disarming the Defenders- Socialist Politicians Sacrifice our Children in “Gun-Free” Zones

My articles are up at Clash Daily, at Ammoland and at my blog, slow facts dot wordpress dot com.  John, tell us what’s new at your blog no lawyers only guns and money.

As I said in personal news, I attended the SHOT Show. I put up a longer post with my reflections on the show. In essence, there was little really new stuff released and a lot of line extensions. Mossberg and Stoeger introduced handguns for the first time in years and some AR manufacturers are adding bolt action rifles. Ultimately, for me, the SHOT Show is about the people and I was able to catch up with a lot of old friends.

That and more is at only guns and money dot blogspot dot com.

Facebook listeners group

Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast.  I’d like to thank (Guests) for joining us today. So for Amy, Tracy, Belle, Dana, Douglas, Gary, John, Rachel, Susan, Grant and Rob,

(Paul, stop talking now)

Grant: Until the next time…

Gary: stay safe,

Grant: be aware,

John: and we’ll see you down the road.

Episode 480 – Kevin Sona and Derek LeBlanc


Paul: Welcome to the polite society podcast powered by the Firearms Policy Coalition recorded on Monday, January 21, 2019, I’m Paul Lathrop

Rob: I’m Rob Morse, and we’ll talk with Kevin Sona about what Florida Carry is up to next month.

Grant: I’m Grant Gallagher, and we’ll talk to Derek Leblanc about real pro safety legislation in Oregon.

Tracy: I’m Tracy Thronburg, and we’ll learn about how the state of Iowa is upsetting the Brady Campaign.

Gary: I’m Gary Daugherty and we have a DGU over pancakes… so climb aboard

Tracy: strap in

Grant : and hang on!

Paul: episode 480 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.

Show intro music

Personal news from each participant (when you are done with your segment please ask the next person what has been up with them)

Rob- Talked with Brett Grayson of Tactical Pay Radio, and I carried every day.


Tracy – Yesterday, I was a student in Hock Hockheim’s hand, stick, knife, and gun class, held at KR Training. I spent the better part of yesterday using my training knife and sparring with Karl Rehn, practicing elasticity drills, blocks, punches, and all kinds of other fun self-defense stuff that you hope you’ll never have to use. I taught some private lessons last week, and carried every day.

Grant – it’s been a quiet week here. I had my sixty-first birthday this week. The usual Thursday night range time was themed “Aim Small, Miss Small” where we were shooting 1 inch dots with three different guns the 365, the 320 and the 229.  PAUL TURNS 50 THIS YEAR!!!!!


I carried every day!  Happy Birthday Grant

Promo about upcoming training classes here.

Tracy – KR Training assistant instructor, Becky Dolgener, and I will be teaching two ladies’ only classes on Saturday, March 30. Basic Pistol 1 will run from 9-12. We will break for an on-site lunch, and then basic pistol 2 will run from 1-5. John Murphy will be at KR Training on February 16-17, teaching Concealed Carry: Two person tactics and Concealed Carry: Vehicle Environment Skills. I’ll be taking those classes as a student, so if you’ve wanted to come shoot down in Texas, here is your chance. Visit www.krtraining.com to see a listing of upcoming classes or to sign up for a class. I will be teaching a MAG-20 range later on in the year, probably in late September or in October; so, if you’ve had the MAG-20 classroom but not the range portion, this will be your opportunity to come take the MAG-20 range. Upon successful completion of the MAG-20 classroom and MAG-20 range, you are eligible to take the written test and earn your MAG-40 certificate. Stay tuned for more updates on this.

Paul –

Gary- POGOShirt.com Discount Code: PSP for 10% off everything in the store.

Ask listeners to listen to other shows on the network, name at least 2 shows.


2- News

POLITE SOCIETY NEWS, January 21st 2019

Hi everyone. Please remember to send your comments on the news to “onair@politicsandguns.com”



Middle schools in Butler County, Iowa, will introduce two-week long gun safety courses for their students this spring. The demand for the courses was driven by the popularity of hunting and other outdoor activities. A recent tragic accident involving a local student also moved the training forward. The course will be delivered to all 7th and 8th grade students.

An advocate for the course said that educating children in school was a lot better than having them find out on the street, and that with the number of local gun owners, it was important that schools do their part.

The course will be overseen by the local Conservation Board. They will address it from a hunting perspective and will cover general Hunter Ed, how firearms work, and safe gun handling.  The firearms used will be non-functioning training guns, incapable of firing live or blank ammunition. All the middle school parents have approved.

A spokesperson for the Brady Campaign disagreed with the course saying that Middle schoolers don’t have the cognitive abilities of adults and likely will not distinguish between loaded and unloaded guns. Butler County School Superintendent Foster disagreed however, saying that this decision was not political, “we just felt it was the right thing to do,” he said.



Rob- Brady campaign offers us their fantasy rather than offering facts.

Grant – this is an excellent idea. 7th and 8th graders are well capable of understanding this. It’s time schools stopped treating our kids as if they are infants

Paul – I think the brady campaign thinks that a 70 year old general who has been around weapons their entire career would be unable to distinguish the diff



We recently described a call for “Common Sense Gun Control” by Virginia Governor Northam. Well, we can happily report that things are *not* going his way.

Republicans on a House “Militia, Police and Public Safety” subcommittee used their 4-2 majority and systematically voted down more than a dozen Democratic gun control bills, including the governor’s red-flag proposal. The Virginia Senate version of the red flag bill was also defeated. That makes a total of eleven bills stopped in committee.

In addition to the red-flag bill, other defeated bills would have: let localities ban guns in libraries and government buildings, banned magazines that hold more than 10 rounds, required universal background checks for gun buyers, restored the state’s former one-handgun-a-month policy, and let localities ban guns at permitted events such as demonstrations and gatherings.

The hearing opened to a packed room, including representatives from the Bloomberg Red-Shirt moms. The Virginia Citizens’ Defense League representative Philip Van Cleave stayed to the end and called the outcome “incremental progress”, warning that numerous gun control bills remained active in the VA Senate and House of Delegates.

Others were more hopeful, predicting that none of the Bills would come to the floor of either House for a vote. Lower House Speaker Kirk Cox said the the Virginia house GOP will fight  steadfastly to defend the Second Amendment rights of law-abiding citizens from far-left gun control proposals.



Rob- As of this afternoon, the total number of stopped gun control bills is up to 26.



The city of Austin is not only the Live Music Capital of the world, but it is probably the home for the largest number of California transplants to Texas. These immigrants have brought their California anti-gun ideals with them.

The city outlawed concealed firearm carry in city hall. This led to six Texans being charged for violating these regulations. That’s when the city was sued over the rule, and the city lost.

The local Travis County District Court ruled that Austin could not ban guns inside the City Hall, and that they should pay a fine of $1,500 dollars for each of the previously convicted violations.

The lawsuit was brought in 2016, by the Texas Attorney General, who argued that the ban contravened the State’s Open Carry Law.

Attorney General Paxton said that the city of Austin cannot violate Texas law simply because they disagree with it. He added that if the City of Austin appealed the decision, his office would continue to defend the right of law-abiding Texans. Activists intend to use this decision against other cities who have enacted similar laws as Austin.

The city is considering an appeal.

Rob- fines accumulate at the rate of 1500 dollars a day, and are at about 800 thousand dollars..and counting.

Grant- cities have the ability to spent local taxes to defend their partisan rulings.. And Texas is using taxpayer $$ to sue them.. So all of this is being paid for by taxpayers…







Gun Quotes- Gun Control is the theory that people who are willing to ignore laws against rape, torture, kidnapping, theft and murder will obey a law which prohibits them from owning a firearm. Source unknown.

Hang on everybody, we’ll be back with our guests Kevin Sona and Derek LeBlanc.


3- Interview 1

Kevin Sona- open carry when camping evolved into a gun conference under canvas. GRPC light. We now need a larger campground.

4- Interview 2

Derek Leblanc


5- DGUs  (at beginning) These discussions are NOT legal advice. Some of us are trainers, but this is not formal training and YOU NEED formal training. The Defensive Gun Use segment is intended as information, NOT as training. As always the opinions of the hosts are only their own opinions and not those of any sponsors or other affiliations.

Paul – Richmond, Virginia

In what appears to have been another in a series of robberies at knife point, this time the police believe they have their man, or rather two brothers and a female friend.  The robberies have been taking place over the last couple weeks around Richmond.

Included in the string is an attempted robbery at the Cary Street Mini-Mart by a man with a knife.  Elias Haddad had bad memories brought back from the incident. His dad got hit before and stabbed in the neck.

Haddad’s wife was at the register when a knife-wielding robber stormed in.  Haddad acted as though we was complying with the man’s demand for money but pulls his gun and fires.

The would-be robber ducked and ran.

Police believe he is the same man who robbed a 7-Eleven a few hours later.  Undercover officers were soon on the suspects’ trail. After a traffic stop and a short foot chase, the two brothers and the female were all arrested.

They are charged with several felonies and investigators are sorting out more than another dozen robberies to see which other ones the trio might be connected with.


Tracy – Pueblo, Colorado

A group of armed teens broke into a home through the back door at about 2:30 PM.  The suspects arrived at the victim’s home in a stolen car, broke in and took several items including a gun, jewelry and the keys to the homeowner’s car.

The robbery was caught on surveillance video and even shows one of them looking in the refrigerator.  You see them gather at the front window. They noticed a woman coming toward the house.

She had noticed the door ajar and went back for her pistol.  The woman was the homeowner’s mother and lived just across the street.

She approached slowly and warned the crooks that she was armed.  The three took off running out the back of the house.

Police have taken a 14-year-old boy into custody.  They are hoping for help to identify the other two.

Police found the homeowner’s car about a mile away.

Grant- why did she not call the police rather than fetching her gun?

Paul – POGO Good on her for not just blindly going toward the house


Huntsville, Alabama

A bad stack of pancakes at IHOP is no reason for a gun fight.  About 10 PM on a Wednesday night, Huntsville police received a call about a shooting at an IHOP.

A customer who was upset with service went to his car and came back into the restaurant with a gun.  He had come to pick up a carry out order. He became loud and disruptive regarding the service which escalated to a verbal then a physical altercation.  After the physical altercation, the customer pulled out a gun and started firing at employees. He struck two. One was killed and the other injured. The injured employee was carrying and returned fire, killing the attacker.  Both the employee and the gunman died at the scene and the injured employee was in stable condition.

The dead employee and the injured employee were father and son.

This criminal has been included in the gun memorial site for hoodlums turned martyrs.


Rob- The defender may have shot mass murder.

Grant – Indianapolis, Indiana

A 59 year old woman reported a burglary at a home she owns on the southeast side of Indianapolis.  The home has been recently sold and the closing was scheduled for Friday.

The homeowner’s son was watching the house prior to closing.  When the criminal pried open the front door just after sunset, he was shot and killed by that man.

“It’s important to see how much the homeowner did before he shot.  He had a friend call 911. He yelled out warnings. He told them to go away and only all that, he resorted to lethal force.  It’s exactly how stand your ground should work,” said attorney John Tompkins.

Attorney Tompkins is not connected with the case but agrees with the decision not to charge the son.

Two other suspects survived the shooting and the brothers are facing two counts of burglary and one count of felony murder.  One of the two confessed to breaking into the home a day earlier and were returning to steal a water heater at the time they were confronted by the son.

Two of the criminals killed in these DGUs are found in the gun control memorial site.


Paul – I

We post each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com  Please take a minute and share them with a friend.


6- E-mail, blog notes, and show close

Listener e-mail discussion

Paul: Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?

Rob- I wrote four articles this week. The latest is called “Learning Armed Defense is All of These”. We teach safety, marksmanship, concealed carry, and eventually, self-defense. We talk about education, instruction, practice, training and testing as if everyone used these terms correctly. We talk about one piece of armed-defense at a time and make it sound simple. That doesn’t mean it is easy. When it comes to self-defense, the entire body of knowledge is much more powerful than the sum of its parts.

My articles are up at Clash Daily, Ammoland, Full 30, and at my blog, slow facts dot wordpress dot com.

John, tell us what’s new at your blog no lawyers only guns and money.

Key Provisions Of Feinstein’s New AWB (Updated)

Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) reintroduced her assault weapon ban yesterday. It is S. 66 and has been referred to the Senate Judiciary Committee. The bill has 28 co-sponsors – 27 Democrats and one Independent (Bernie Sanders).

That and more is at only guns and money dot blogspot dot com.

Facebook listeners group

Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast.  I’d like to thank Kevin Sona and Derick Leblanc for joining us today.  So for Amy, Tracy, Belle, Dana, Gary, John, Rachel, Susan, Grant and Rob,

(Paul, stop talking now)

Rob: Until the next time…

Gary: stay safe,

Tracy: be aware,

Grant: and we’ll see you down the road.

Episode 479 – Rory Miller


Paul: Welcome to the polite society podcast powered by the Firearms Policy Coalition recorded on Monday, January 14, 2019, I’m Paul Lathrop.

Rob: I’m Rob Morse and we’ll talk with Rory Miller about how we think about and misapprehend violence.

Belle: I’m Belle McCormack, and we’ll talk about getting rid of gun free zones in Wyoming.

Tracy: I’m Tracy Thronburg, and we’ll learn about new proposed gun control legislation in both the house and the senate.

Gary: I’m Gary Daugherty and in one of our DGUs a woman broke the law to save her life… so climb aboard

Belle: strap in

Rob: and hang on!

Paul: episode 479 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.

Show intro music.

Personal news from each participant (when you are done with your segment please ask the next person what has been up with them)

Rob- Bought some gun parts for test and evaluation. I’ll let you know how it goes. Carried every day. Should have done some dry practice and range practice. I hope to this week.



Tracy – I taught handgun fundamentals and several lessons last week, and on Saturday, I learned how to safely use my chainsaw, and I got to cut down an oak tree. I had received the chainsaw as a Valentine’s day gift last year, but didn’t want to use it until I had someone show me about maintenance and how to safely use it. I had so much fun!

Belle-I have been taking a bit of time to enjoy the outdoors, we’ve had some cold but sunny weather. My little girl finished wrestling season and jumped into BJJ, so crazy practice schedule continues. The WA ST IDPA Championship opens for registration tomorrow January 15th, bracing myself for the chaos that will happen there. Going to shoot some IDPA for the next couple weekend til classes start in February.

Grant- I’ve been quite busy on the shooting front. On Thursday night three of us met up at the range to play with our 365s – it seems we all prefer someone else’s gun to shoot with! I also went to the official open day of a new range in Wayne, up north in New Jersey. It’s a really great facility with a broad offering of guns to rent and a well-designed 25 yrd range, where shooters can send targets to any distance, program them to turn and so on. If you live in that area it’s well worth a look. It’s called “Reloaderz NJ” and it’s at 1813 Rt 23 in NJ. They also have their own Well-Armed Women Chapter, which is an added plus. Finally, I taught a civilian TASER class on Sunday. I’m hoping this useful little non-lethal defense tool will take off in NJ.


Promo about upcoming training classes here.

Ask listeners to listen to other shows on the network, name at least 2 shows.


2- News

POLITE SOCIETY NEWS, January 14th 2019

Hi everyone. Please remember to send your comments on the news to “onair@politicsandguns.com”




A bill overriding local gun control laws has been introduced in the Wyoming legislature. It has very strong support in both the state Senate and Assembly, with almost half of each chamber already signed on as co-sponsors.

The Bill would repeal most gun-free zones and allow concealed weapon permit holders to carry pretty much anywhere. The bill also clarifies that only the State Legislature may regulate firearms, weapons and ammunition, thereby introducing State Preemption.

The proposed legislation would preempt bans on firearms in all public schools, colleges and universities, as well as government meetings, and college and professional athletic events, opening them for concealed carry.

As you might expect, there is some debate around the concept, with educational representatives and local officials falling on either side of the Bill. Two years ago, the State passed a Bill that allows individual school districts to decide whether staff should be allowed to carry their firearms in school, for example. Currently, Wyoming does not allow concealed carry on college or university campuses either.

The Bill is waiting to be assigned to committee, so it’s still in its early days.

So, write and tell us what you think. Should there be State Preemption, or should individual cities and districts decide firearms policy? Should adult students and staff be allowed to carry on campus if they choose? Our email address is: onair at politics and guns dot com



Rob- We already know about the bill. What we’ll discover is the character of the Wyoming legislature when they assign the bill to committee. With half the legislature as co-sponsors.




As promised, Federal Democrats have wasted little time in introducing “common sense” gun control Bills.

In the Assembly, the push so far has been on the so-called “gun show loophole” with a Bill that would prevent private, person-to-person sales and require all gun sales to go through the 4473 system. Interestingly, several Republican members of the House are co-sponsoring, from New York, New Jersey and Florida.

In the Senate, the push is to resurrect the so-called “assault weapons” ban, with a list of 205 guns banned by name. Also banned are: devices that increase rate of fire (including, but not restricted to, bump stocks), banning AR/AK style pistols and the pistol brace, and magazines with capacity of over 10 rounds. So far, the list of 205 banned firearms does not seem to be available. Most interestingly, the bill also proposes banning alternative stocks that do not include a pistol grip, but designed to “circumvent gun control”.

Also in the Senate, Republican Marco Rubio has introduced a bill for a Federal Red Flag law, similar to the one that New Florida Senator Scott signed while he was governor.

These Bills and many others are introduced under cover of preventing mass murder tragedies such as the one at Parkland.

However, no-one seems to be introducing federal legislation that would bring in a National “FASTER” program, or deal directly with the facts of the Parkland report – that only armed volunteers on scene, willing to engage a threat directly and immediately, have the chance to minimize the number of injuries.

What do you think? What would *you* do to protect children in your schools? Does banning guns work or is “protecting children” just a cynical ploy to disarm the population? You can write to us at: onair at politics and guns dot com.



Rob- John Lott said that 65% of mass. Gun control doesn’t have to make us safer. It only has to sound good on TV.





New Florida Governor Rick De Santis has acted on the final report of the Parkland mass murder and fired the Sheriff of Broward County, Scott Israel, whose policies and procedures governed the disastrous response to the attack.

He has been replaced with Sheriff Gregory Tony, by the new Governor.

Former Sheriff Israel was very vocal in the calls for additional gun control following the murders, and led the attack against the NRA in the shameful CNN Round Table that took place shortly after.

It was only later that it became apparent that his department, and others, had multiple opportunities to prevent the event from ever happening. It also recently became clear that members of this sheriff’s department were in no hurry to enter the school after they arrived on the scene. This not only allowed the murderer to kill more defenseless individuals, but to actually escape the scene completely.

Let’s hope that this is only the first step that new Governor De Santis takes to provide posthumous justice to the dead and their families.

Please, write and tell us what you think about this whole affair, and what it tells us about local government in general. You can email us at: onair at politics and guns dot com.



Rob- Israel’s political allies didn’t save him.

Paul – At risk of sounding crass…




MA Attorney General Maura Healey made a blatant attack on firearms owners and retailers two years ago. She introduced an enforcement notice that banned all AR and AK pattern rifles in the Commonwealth. She did this with little consultation and almost no notice.

Not surprisingly, Massachusetts firearm retailers, supported by the National Shooting Sports Foundation sued. More surprisingly they won. Of course, AG Healey appealed the case.

The First Circuit court of the US Court of Appeals dismissed Healey’s appeal. That leaves the suit open to go forward and challenge the attorney general’s enforcement notice. The decision against Healey’s appeal was swift and merciless, stating that she had indeed denied due process to those retailers affected.

The attorney for the retailers and NSSF said that AG Healey’s appeal was frivolous, and that she had overstepped her legal authority in issuing the Notice back in 2016.

Quote, “because criminal penalties can result due to Healey’s unilateral reinterpretation of a state statute, done without administrative process or input from affected parties, her office exceeded its lawful authority….  retailers were deprived of their due process protections under the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments. Attorney General Healey’s action is unconstitutional.”

Of course, this isn’t the end of the matter and of course, the MA State AG has what amounts to limitless funds to fight her case in court. This is a good start, but the issue is far from settled.

So, have you seen similar fights in your state? What do you think of officials who decide to “reinterpret” the law? Write to us at: onair at politics and guns, and tell us.



Paul- Gun Quotes- The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them.  ..to cover with the veil of secrecy the common routine of business, is an abomination in the eyes of every intelligent man, and every friend to his country. Patrick Henry

Hang on everybody, we’ll be back with our guest Rory Miller.


3- Interview 1- Rory Miller.


Conflict Communication

4- Interview 2

5- DGUs  (at beginning) These discussions are NOT legal advice. Some of us are trainers, but this is not formal training and YOU NEED formal training. The Defensive Gun Use segment is intended as information, NOT as training. As always the opinions of the hosts are only their own opinions and not those of any sponsors or other affiliations.

Gary – Chicago, Illinois
Civil disobedience.  Refusing to go along with a law because it is unlawful or immoral.  For a 25 year old Chicago woman, it saved her life potentially.

She was sitting at the bus stop at 5:45 AM recently when a 19 year old man wearing a hoodie approached her.  He pulled a gun and attempted to rob her. The woman is a concealed carry holder and was armed as well.

She pulled out her own weapon and shot the attempted robber in the neck.  The suspect ran from the scene and was found a block away. He was taken to the hospital where he died.  He lived about a block away from where he was shot. The autopsy found that he died of a gunshot wound, and his death was ruled a homicide.

Reports have the would-be robber stealing her gun from her before running and the police were still looking for both guns.  Surveillance video from two different cameras show the man approaching the woman but then jump to her on the ground and the man running away.  From all stories, this is should be listed as a justifiable homicide.

This budding career criminal was listed on the Gun Control Memorial site.



Paul – She obviously needs more training than the Illinois government requires.

Grant – yes – bus stops are like elevators – normal personal space distances are much reduced

Grant – Little Rock, Arkansas
The list keeps growing of things not to bring to a gunfight.  The list now includes knife, machete, samurai sword, club-style weapons, or fists.

Last week, police were called to an apartment in Little Rock for a homicide.  They reported that a 59 year old man attacked a 65 year old man with a “club style weapon”.  The older man shot and killed his attacker. The older man was taken to the hospital for treatment of head injuries.

The victim’s brother was the one who called 911.

The victim is the property manager of the apartments and based on statements by police will not be charged.  The case is being sent to the Pulaski County Prosecutor’s Office for review.


Paul – yet another


Rob- Cleveland, Ohio
Two men walked into Paul’s Serve Rite Food Market in Cleveland central neighborhood. They had hoods pulled up tight over their heads and scarves covering their faces.

The 59 year old store owner and his 70 year old employee repeatedly instructed the duo to take off their hoods.  They refused, pulled out guns and demanded the men give them the money from the cash register.

A third employee was working the register and handed the man the drawer, which had about $80 in it.

The 70 year old saw the robbers with their guns out and pulled out his own gun, firing four shots.  The owner was also armed and he fired once. The two ran from the store and went in different directions.

The suspects did not appear to be injured. There were 5 children in the store at the time and thankfully, none of them was hurt either.  The duo was still being sought.


Paul – At least 5 shots were fired and NO HITS?!?! Training anyone?


We post each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com  Please take a minute and share them with a friend.


6- E-mail, blog notes, and show close

Email address onair@politicsandguns.com phone # 605-215-1438

Listener e-mail discussion-

Rob- Joseph from New Jersey sent us a picture of a letter from the Bergen county prosecutor. Law enforcement officers, including those who are “on call” are not allowed to have a firearms magazine with greater than 10 rounds. That law should be revised, but it applies as written.

Rob- Why?

Gary- Email from Val

Several times now Rob has mentioned that some 90% of Red Flag Law confiscations get reversed in court.

I can’t find any support for that fact, and would like to have the source to use.

So, can you cite a source?

As long as we’re talking about the Red Flag Laws, how can people not see that these are purely and simply a gun confiscation tactic. If they were about protecting people, why are the victims left with their vehicles, gas cans, chain saws, axes, and all sorts of other dangerous things?



Rapid City

Grant: Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?


My articles are up at Clash Daily, at Ammoland and at my blog, slow facts dot wordpress dot com. .

That and more is at only guns and money dot blogspot dot com.

 Grant  Facebook listeners group

Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast.  I’d like to thank (Rory Miller) for joining us today. So for Amy, Tracy, Belle, Dana, Douglas, Gary, John, Rachel, Susan, Grant and Rob,

(Paul, stop talking now)

Rob: Until the next time…

Tracy: stay safe,

Belle: be aware,

Gary: and we’ll see you down the road.

Episode 476 – News, DGUs, and an interview with Kat Ainsworth and Belle about domestic violence

Please visit show sponsor Ammo.com

1- Introduction

Paul – Welcome to the polite society podcast powered by the Firearms Policy Coalition recorded on Sunday, December 23rd, 2018, I’m Paul Lathrop

John:  I’m John Richardson and we’ll talk about  the recently released rule banning bumpstocks..

Grant: I’m Grant Gallagher and in our DGU segment, we’ll talk about a website that tries to turn attackers into martyrs

Gary: I’m Gary Daugherty and and on tonight’s show we will talk with Kat Ainsworth about Domestic Violence…so climb aboard

Grant: strap in

John: and hang on!

Paul:  episode 476 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.

Show intro music.

Personal news from each participant (when you are done with your segment please ask the next person what has been up with them)

John – I plan to do some deer hunting after Christmas and have been getting my gear ready. I’m thinking I’ll use my 6.8 SPC II AR to prove that you can hunt with an AR-15. I might even put my suppressor on it. Other than that, I was busy finishing up work for the year. I would like to remind our listeners that if they want me to check out any products or companies at the SHOT Show they need to email me soon at john@politicsandguns.com. I’ll do my best to check them out.


Grant – I *finally* got my initial set of classes at Garden State Shooting Center laid out for the year. We’ll be running mostly from the USCCA curriculum, including the Instructor class, but interspersed with NRA Basic Pistol and Rifle to support NRA Instructor candidates, too.

Paul/Susan –

Promo about upcoming training classes here.

Grant – just the same as last Episode. We are going to be offering a mix of USCCA and NRA classes, including Instructor classes for both organizations, in handgun, rifle and home defense. We also have National Train a Teacher Day on July 20th. So if any of that sounds interesting, email me on Grant-at-scotshot-dot-com for more details

PATCHES – Yes, we still have PSP patches. Price is $8 ppd. Send PayPal to john@politicsandguns.com or an email to that address if you want to pay by check. Proceeds go to the Second Amendment Foundation.

Gary- PogoShirt.com

Ask listeners to listen to other shows on the network, name at least 2 shows.


2- News

POLITE SOCIETY NEWS, December 23rd 2018

Hi everyone. Please remember to send your comments on the news to “onair@politicsandguns.com”




Effective Wednesday, December 26th  President Trump’s promise that Bump Stocks will be banned, goes into effect. You have until March 26, 2019 to dispose of them.

This was achieved by having the ATF change the definition of a machine gun from a gun that fires continuously from one pull of the trigger, to include the bump stock device that allows continuous fire to be initiated from one pull of the trigger.

The new rule, which is in the show notes,  also proposes a new definition of “automatically”, in relation to firing a gun.

The new rule claims to resolve an inherent contradiction between original bump stock devices (that were considered illegal at the time) which used springs to transmit the recoil back to the trigger of a semi-automatic rifle, with the current versions, which operate differently and were twice ruled legal by the ATF under the Obama administration.

The rule posits to clarify the “best” definition of “machine gun” under the 1934 act. In so doing, it determines that the spirit of the law was focused on continuous fire and so, bumpstocks become “machine guns”, because they permit continuous fire to be “initiated” by a single trigger squeeze. This function is now embraced by the term “automatic fire”, which is also re-defined under the rule.

However, the rule continues that this new definition of machine gun includes devices that allow “more than one shot” with a single pull, referring to bump stocks in this definition.

Recently, the ATF also said that it would no longer review firearm accessories unless they were attached to a firearm. Doubtless, this change is to accommodate reviewing accessories against the new definition of “machinegun”.

Ironically Senator Diane Feinstein has come out saying that this change in definition is out with the authority of the ATF, and that it should be returned to Congress for review. No doubt she wants to tweak it even more against the law-abiding citizen patriot gun owner.

Interestingly, Rolling Stone has brought forward the real danger about this ban – that it will ultimately lead to a ban on all semi-automatic rifles. They say, since a variety of devices and even skillful manipulation with one’s hands, can initiate “continuous fire” under the new definitions, that the real problem is the semi-auto rifle itself. Alert listeners will have noticed a shift in the mainstream media from the term “Assault Rifle” to “Semi-Automatic Rifle”.

It is clear that the path to a ban for any administration who wants it, now or in the future, is laid down in this new rule.

There is a very good discussion of this at “The Truth About Guns”. They fundamentally disagree with the new ATF definition and maintain that a semi-auto with a bump-stock still requires the trigger to be pulled once for each round fired, although this does take place more quickly. It’s a very muddy area. Is the machine gun about the “machine”, or the rate of fire? NRA believes it is more about rate of fire, according to their spokesperson Marion Hammer.

What do you think about this? Do you think ATF should have done this? Should a government agency, whose members are neither accountable to the public nor elected by them, have the power to re-write or re-purpose legislation originally written by Congress? Do you think that the President should have requested it? Contact us at: onair at politics and guns dot com.



John – I never thought I’d say this but I agree with Dianne Feinstein on this – it is the job of Congress and not that of the BATFE which is on dubious grounds. I applaud our primary sponsor the Firearms Policy Coalition for filing a lawsuit against this on the day it was announced. Their lawsuit even caught the attention of the Washington Post.



John – The problem is that if you are caught with it you will be charged with a felony.

John –




Hot on the heels of the ATF ruling, the commission promised by President Trump on school safety, has endorsed the so-called “Red Flag” gun confiscation laws as part of a package of recommendations in its report.

Quote: “The Commission endorses Extreme Risk Protection Order laws, which give authorities a temporary way to keep those who threaten society from possessing or purchasing firearms.”

The President directed the Commission to make a comprehensive assessment of the issue of school violence and to make policy recommendations to keep our schools safe.

The Commission also said that it recommended:

* “No Notoriety” principles, which call on media coverage to not use names or photos of killers.

* “Schools and communities must take a comprehensive approach to making sure school campuses are safe places for learning and growth.”

* “The Commission’s report emphasizes the importance of improving access to mental health services as a vital means of reducing school violence.”

The Commissions report runs to 180 pages and you can get it from the link in the show notes.

Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach said: “Anti-gun interest groups and politicians have used the Parkland shooting to launch what, until recently, they regarded as a distant dream — a wave of state legislation authorizing the confiscation of firearms (ie, the red flag laws).”

As we have reported before, a number of states have enacted this legislation, that strips the law abiding of their due process rights until after their guns have been grabbed. The President’s apparent approval will only speed the process.

It appears that President Trump, is now on board with red flag laws, but he also emphasized the need for armed teachers, as we will discuss later.

The 2016 election result had so much hope for the law-abiding gun owning public. President Trump told the American public that the eight-year assault on the Second Amendment was over, it may be that a new four-year assault is just beginning.

What do you think? Is this the emergence of the anti-gun Democrat Trump we were warned about? Write to us at: onair at politics and guns dot com and let us know your opinion.



John – A case from VT recently





While the Whitehouse Commission’s report on school safety focused on watching for danger signs of stress and anxiety amongst students, and early reporting, in a “See something, Say something” way, The President continued to speak out for the role of volunteer armed teachers in defending against attacks such as Sandy Hook, and Parkland.

Trump remained focused on allowing willing, trained teachers to carry guns. He noted how quickly attacks can unfold, adding that the speed at which they happen makes it “critical to have armed personnel available at a moment’s notice.”

He added, “These are people, teachers in many cases, that are the highest trained that you can get. People that are natural to firearms. People that know how to handle them. People that have great experience, and on top of the experience, have taken courses and they are right on the site. This is critical to the hardening of our schools against an attack.”

Trump made similar remarks in the wake of the February 14, 2018, Parkland high school attack, noting that first responders are “5 to 8 minutes” away when a shooting occurs but armed teachers can be there “immediately.”

At that time he stressed that he was not talking about forcing teachers to be armed. Rather, he wants to be sure that teachers who want to be armed, can be; that they can get the training necessary to carry a gun on campus and protect themselves and their students from attackers. This broadly concurs with one of the recommendations from the report of the Parkland mass murder that we have previously reported on.

In separate remarks, Debbie Wasserman Shultz of Broward County and the DNC, said “we stand against arming teachers”, so she clearly is in support of making it easy for people to murder children in schools.



John – We have reported the success of FASTER with Rob and with Laura Carno in past episodes.





Following the Parkland high school mass murder, 15 students who survived brought suit against the school district and Broward County Sheriff office, arguing that they failed to protect them from the murderer, despite many warnings of his general behavior and specific threats to shoot students in schools.

US District Court Judge Beth Bloom ruled that the students would have to be in the “custody” of the school for a duty to protect to be in existence. Since this was not the case, neither the school district, nor the Sheriff’s department had any such obligation.

She ruled:

“there is no constitutional duty to protect students from harm inflicted by third parties,” saying that, “students — unlike mental patients and prison inmates — are not in a custodial relationship with the state. Absent that type of restraint, there can be no concomitant duty to provide for the student’s safety and general well-being,” the ruling said.

Ironically in a separate ruling, a Broward County Judge refused to dismiss suit brought against Deputy Sheriff Peterson, by the parents of one of the students murdered at the school. You’ll remember that Deputy Peterson was vilified for refusing to enter the school to confront the murderer.

Judge Patti Henning rejected the argument of Peterson’s lawyer that he had “no legal duty” to protect the students. She found that Peterson had a duty to the school community as someone whose job was security and who had an “obligation to act reasonably” under the circumstances of the shooting.

She also found Peterson was not protected from the lawsuit by “sovereign immunity,” a legal doctrine that shields public employees from legal action based on their official conduct.

So what is your consensus, listeners? Do schools have an obligation to protect students when they are in school? Do individual staff bear that responsibility when on duty? Write to us at: onair at politics and guns dot com




John – I don’t think the Judge Bloom in the Fed case had a choice as the Supreme Ct ruled back in 2005 in Warren v. DC that the police have no duty to defend any individual only the public in general.



Hang on everybody, we’ll be back with our guest Kat Ainsworth, talking about the sensitive topic of domestic violence.


3- Interview 1 – Kat Ainsworth

Interview 2 – Kat Ainsworth, continued

Paul – DGUs  (at beginning) These discussions are NOT legal advice. Some of us are trainers, but this is not formal training and YOU NEED formal training. The Defensive Gun Use segment is intended as information, NOT as training. As always the opinions of the hosts are only their own opinions and not those of any sponsors or other affiliations.

GRANT – Our DGU writer Dana has been reporting Defensive Gun Uses for the Polite Society Podcast for about 2 years. One thing he noticed a while ago was the posting of the criminals who are the recipients of the defensive gun use into sites like GunMemorial.com.  This site purports to be a memorial site for the victims of “gun violence”.

Recently, though, on December 11th, the site RallyForOurRights.com posted a blog entry about a DGU we covered earlier in 2018.  This DGU involved a road rage incident in Milton, Washington along I-5. The 23-year-old female motorcyclist, Aubrey Bowlin (the victim in this case), did something to irritate a 60 year-old driver.  The man, Bruce Jones, boxed Bowlin in and then exited his vehicle and physically attacked her while she was still sitting on her motorcycle. He pounded her head into the traffic barrier, hit her and shook her like “a dog with a toy in its mouth.”  He tried to violently rip her helmet off and was choking her with the chin strap. Fearing death would be the outcome, she shot this piece of garbage once in the chest which was all it took to take him off of the threat list for others.

Bowlin was a legal concealed pistol carrier.  She called 911 after ending the threat and waited at the scene until law enforcement and other first responders arrived.  She did everything right and no charges were filed. Pierce County Sheriff’s department exonerated her as this was a clear case of self-defense.

Rally for Our Rights found that this low life had been memorialized on the National Gun Violence site.  He even had 90 candles lit for him. Following the publication of the column, on December 16th, the Gun Memorial site quietly removed the posting for this perpetrator after receiving a deluge of backlash following the posting.  The Rally for Our Rights has found thousands of others posted and will be exposing some of the worst soon.

The Gun Memorial site is backed by an anti-Second Amendment group which is trying to turn the lawful use of a firearm for defense into a crime.  They do this by labeling every one of their postings as a homicide. Homicide is an all-encompassing term. It can be divided into many sub-categories.  Murder, manslaughter, killing in war, euthanasia, capital punishment and justifiable homicide. It is that last category that we focus on during our Defensive Gun Use segment.  Justifiable homicide or legal self-defense encompasses 5 parts as Andrew Branca has much more eloquently written about in his best seller.

As you may have noticed, Dana has quit naming the thugs who are the recipient of self-defensive gun uses.  Just like many have stopped using the names of the fame seeking murders who use the gun free zone to fame and glory in their own sick minds, he stopped naming names as well.

Some of the past DGU’s which he found include the July 4, 2017 self-defense shooting in Kentucky of Jody Sevier who went to an ex-girlfriend’s home and confronted the man who also lived in the house, who subsequently was forced to defend  himself. An emergency order of protection had been issued but not yet served at the time. Dana found a listing for him in the site while researching the DGU.

In Episode 416, he wrote about a motel landlord who defended himself against a knife attack while talking to 911.  Dana wrote that Michael Auvil had been the knife wielding attacker. Auvil is listed in the site with 40 candles.

In Episode 422 we talked about Servando Santos, who had assaulted an elderly lady leaving her in the hospital in critical condition in Dauphin County, PA before forcing his way into a nearby home.  The homeowner was a POGO practitioner and fired several shots at the Santos after he disregarded warnings that the homeowner was armed. One shot hit him in the stomach. He was found in the site alo.

This is just a sampling of the ones Dana has found but he has seen the listings in Internet search results time and time again.  Once again, the gun control lobby seeks to use anything they can to leverage against the defenders of our Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms.  After the November Thousand Oaks bar shooting, this same group claimed 307 mass shootings in the United States in 2018. Rally for Our Rights looked at their list and applied the Congressional Research Service definition of “The incident takes place in a public area involving four or more deaths—not including the gunman, the shooter selects victims indiscriminately, the violence in these incidents are not a means to an end.”  After sorting the list from low to high for deaths, the first 11 pages were thrown out because the deaths resulting were 0 to 3. Of the 287 incidents tossed out, 155 resulted in zero deaths. Of the 20 remaining, most were family or domestic violence related. 6 were left. Marjorie Stoneman High School, Antioch, Tennessee Waffle House, Sante Fe, Texas High School, Anapolis, Maryland Capital Gazette, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania Tree of Life Synagogue and Thousand Oaks, California Borderline Bar and Grill are all that were left.  The only ones that are potentially not gun free zones are the Waffle House and the MAryland Gazette.

From this point forward, Dana and the Podcast will not be silent on any DGU which has ended up on this web site.  We will continue with our policy of not naming the criminal who initiated the DGU but will state that they are on this site and include the link in the show notes.  If we pressure this site to remove any criminal who met their just rewards as a result of a lawful use of a firearm, then we will be putting less ammunition into the hands of those who wish to disarm us.


Paul –

And now on to some recent DGU’s.

John – Tulsa, Oklahoma

At 4 PM on Thursday, a clerk at the photo counter in a Tulsa Walgreens asked for some identification before handing over photographs to the 52-year-old man.  The man didn’t want to produce ID but instead he produced a gun, climbed over the counter, grabbed the photos and then climbed back over the counter.

The clerk picked up the phone to call 911 when the man returned to the counter and threatened him.

The clerk who is licensed to conceal carry then pulled his own gun and shot the aggressor multiple times.

Another Walgreens employee and a customer were struck by gunfire and hospitalized.  Both are expected to survive.

Walgreens’ surveillance video confirmed witness accounts of the dispute.  The employee was not injured and has not been arrested at this time. Walgreens is cooperating with the investigation.


Paul – I hope the guy still has a

John – I know that they fired a pharmacist for defending himself in Michigan.

Gary- New Market, Alabama

At approximately 3 AM on Wednesday, 911 operators received two calls to report a shooting.  One of the callers was the victim of the shooting.

At the same time, a woman called 911 from a neighbors home to report she “had been held” and had shot a man.

First responders went to the home and found the man suffering from gunshot wounds to his wrist and upper torso.

The female caller and the man were in a “domestic relationship.” The shooting stemmed from a physical altercation between them after which she ran to the neighbor’s home.

The 49-year-old man died after being MedFlighted to the hospital.  The 32-year-old female was talking to the Criminal Investigation Division where she was interviewed and released.  She was then taken by a family member to a hospital for evaluation and treatment.

The 49-year-old alleged domestic abuser has appeared in the GunMemorial site just within days of the incident.


Grant- This shows how important it is to call the police – the first person who calls is always considered the “victim”

Paul – Missoula, Montana

Josef “Joe” Crepeau thought the commotion he heard from inside his house was his dog chasing his cat.  He then started hearing the volume of sirens increasing and a growing law enforcement presence around his home.

He opened his front door and learned that they were seeking the whereabouts of one or more individuals.  That threw the dog chasing cat theory out the window. He decided to determine that the cause of the noise inside his house was not the searched for individuals.

He is not a POGO practitioner so he grabbed is 9mm Beretta and started on the top floor.  He reminded himself of training protocols and worked his way down the house. In the basement, he saw an open door to the outside and became more cautious.

When speaking to the Missoulian newspaper at his office in Missoula College where he is a math professor, the next day Crepeau joked that the state of affairs in the basement might have served as a deterrent. “I was hoping that he took one look at that hell hole of a basement and ran away.”

When he looked in the furnace room, he saw the intruder crouched down and at this point, he finally chambered a round.  At least he had a magazine in the gun.

The intruder was clearly in distress. He was panting and sweating and just shaking, he said.  He believed the intruder heard him rack the slide. He became very cooperative very quickly.

Crepeau ordered the man to stand up, put his hands up and keep them up.  Eventually he came forward slowly. He turned the intruder to make sure he was in front of him, lowered his weapon and marched him up the stairs.

At one point the intruder started talking but Crepeau “ordered him to keep his mouth closed” with the help of some colorful language.

Outside he alerted law enforcement and turned the man over to them.  Crepeau put down his firearm and got on the ground because he knew he would be handcuffed as part of procedure.  Once he was verified as the property owner, he was released.

Creapeau said he was grateful for law enforcement and he stressed the importance of “training, training, training,” in the use of firearms.  He said at no point was his finger on the trigger.

“The Second Amendment is too precious to screw around with willy-nilly,” Crepeau said. As is said in the Spiderman comics, “With great power comes great responsibility.”



Grant – wow – this guy is a cat and has only 2 lives left. He is unbelievably lucky

We post each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com  Please take a minute and share them with a friend.


6- E-mail, blog notes, and show close

Listener e-mail discussion/recipe

Voice mail 1

Voice mail 2

John – I had to petition to get my mother’s name off the voter rolls two years after she passed away.  When I was a senior I voted absentee from London.

Voice mail 3

Email 1

John, tell us what’s new at your blog no lawyers only guns and money.

John – I have had a number of posts up since our last show. Of course, I did cover the issuance of the Final Rule banning bumpstocks in multiple posts. I even went so far as to say Dianne Feinstein was correct in her criticism of the Rule. My most recent post covers a lawsuit filed by FPC and SAF among others against California. It involves two men who had their rights including firearm rights restored by other states. That said, California refuses to recognize the restoration of their firearms rights and has even confiscated one man’s firearms collection. The case is Linton v. Becerra and I think it has a good chance of winning.

That and more is at only guns and money dot blogspot dot com.

PAUL: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast.  I’d like to thank Kat Ainsworth for joining us today. So for Amy, Tracy, Belle, Dana, Douglas, Gary, Grant, John, Rachel, Rob and Susan:

(Paul, stop talking now)

Paul: Until the next time…

Gary: stay safe,

Grant: be aware,

John: and we’ll see you down the road.

Episode 478 – Karen McDonald and Kat Ainsworth


Grant: Welcome to the polite society podcast powered by the Firearms Policy Coalition recorded on Monday, January 7th, 2019, I’m Grant Gallagher

Rob: I’m Rob Morse and on show we will talk with Kat Ainsworth about domestic violence.

John: I’m John Richardson, and we’ll talk about a New Hampshire legislator who says “I will not comply!”

Tracy: I’m Tracy Thronburg, and we’ll hear about a guy in Texas who learned the importance of locking your car doors at all times the hard way.

Gary: I’m Gary Daugherty and in one of our DGUs we go to Broken Arrow, OK, again… so climb aboard.

Rob: strap in

John : and hang on!

Grant:  episode 478 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.

Show intro music.

Personal news from each participant (when you are done with your segment please ask the next person what has been up with them)

Rob- Bill Frady and I talked about Self-Defense Gun Stories.  That was on his Lock and Load Radio program. ???and I recorded another Episode of Self-Defense Gun Stories.

John – I spent a good part of the weekend working the Grass Roots North Carolina booth at the Asheville Gun Show. We picked up a few members and it seemed that the attendance was up over the last few times. I’m also starting to get ready for the SHOT Show in less than 2 weeks. Also, this is a last call if there is something new you want me to check out at the SHOT Show. Email me at john @ politics and guns dot com.


Tracy – This past Saturday, I taught a block on Massad Ayoob’s Persuader techniques (Kubotan) at Paul Martin’s annual Preparedness Conference, held at KR Training. Our own Rachel Malone was my assistant. We went over snaps and jabs. The participants used training Kubotans made out of rolled up mouse pads and rubber bands to learn the various techniques we taught. A good time was had by all. Tomorrow night, I’m teaching my monthly class of Handgun Fundamentals. Other than that, I’ve been enjoying working out with my personal trainer two days a week and attending Camp Gladiator boot camp.

Belle- I’m dealing with calling in for jury duty everyday for the month of January. Getting ready for FAS classes to start this weekend. Brought my beloved 1971 Ford Highboy home.

Grant – I didn’t do much this last week other than get the ScotShot website for 2019 refreshed and open for business. There has been a nasty cold passing through the Gallagher household, so we’ve all been affected by that to some degree.


Grant – Promo about upcoming training classes here.

Grant – we have National Train A Teacher Day on July 20th, and USCCA Instructor on Feb 9 & 10. Email me at grant at scotshot dot com for details.

Ask listeners to listen to other shows on the network, name at least 2 shows.


Rob News Intro – welcome to the News segment of PSP please email us with comments and thoughts.. Our first story is from New Hampshire…

2- News

POLITE SOCIETY NEWS, January 07th 2019

Hi everyone. Please remember to send your comments on the news to “onair@politicsandguns.com”




Democrats took control of the state legislature of New Hampshire, traditionally one of the most gun-friendly states in the Union. It’s motto is “Live Free or Die”, after all. Well, as you might expect, the new Democrat administration has set about dismantling that philosophy. They started by banning anyone except law enforcement from being armed in the State House.

State representative John Burt has decided he is not going to comply. He described the rule-change as “anti-gun and anti-Constitution”, saying that he wants to make sure that,  “..every crazy nut out there that loves to go to these gun-free zones and do their killing understand one thing: I, Rep. John Burt of Goffstown, will not be a victim..”

The rest of the State House is pro-gun space, Burt said, and he has even carried his gun into the Governor’s office. He concluded by saying: “It has been proven that gun-free zones have turned into killing zones.”

Guns were allowed until 1971, when a GOP legislator requested a ban. This lasted until 2011, when a GOP law change once again allowed legislators to carry on the House floor. There have been no accidental or negligent discharges, although two firearms have been dropped.

We have seen gun-free-zones being used as killing zones and we are familiar with how initiatives such as SAFER are working to remove them. So, what do you think? Is Representative Burt correct or just a sore loser? What happens in your state? Write to us at: onair at politics and guns dot com.



Rob- elections have consequences.

John- I’m reminded

Grant- there are enough gun owners in NJ to get their way, too. Here also, they tend not to turn up.




Virginia Governor Ralph Northam – Democrat – proposed gun confiscation orders, criminalization of private gun sales, an “assault weapons” ban and other “common sense” gun controls, such as a red-flag law and a one-gun-a-month law.

As usual, this Bloomberg shill said that these proposed controls would “reduce gun violence’. Experience taught us that this is simply a convenient lie to continue the Democrat program of civilian disarmament. The Governor hand-waved about “senseless gun violence” without distinguishing between what criminals did with their guns and what law abiding gun owners did with theirs. The proposed measures have proven ineffective in many other states.

For example, California has prohibited private gun sales since the 1990s, but has experienced many high-profile attacks since then. Similarly, the aggressive assault weapon ban in Maryland hasn’t made Baltimore any safer. Instead, violent crime rose in both states.

Ignoring the evidence, this Democrat Governor tweeted: “This morning I announced a broad package of reasonable legislation to prevent gun violence and improve Virginia’s public safety.”

Do you live in Virginia? what do you think? Do you live in Maryland or California or New York or Connecticut? How have new anti-gun laws affected crime? Write and tell us at: onair at politics and guns dot com.





John – Joe Morrissey used to be a member of the VA House of Delegates. He was virulently anti-gun but that didn’t stop him from waving around an AK on the House floor during a gun control debate.

Grant – so thinking about Red Flag laws, what do we think of Marco Rubio introducing a red flag bill to Congress?

Rob- Rubio is trolling for bloomberg dollars in purple Florida and low information voters?




We all remember how a House tradition – the annual baseball game – was used by a Democrat activist to shoot and severely wound multiple individuals including Republican Steve Scalise over a year ago.

Well it appears that the same sentiment is still alive and dangerous on the Socialist Left.

Scalise and a Democrat activist were having a public debate on Twitter about Democrat proposals for increasing income and other taxes. You might say that this is a good use of social media – open exchange or ideas and disagreements in full public view.

However, when some on the left side started talking about shooting him, Scalise pulled the plug.

They tweeted: “snipe his ass,”, “she’s got better aim than our guy, that’s for sure,” and “Kick his cane,”

Scalise closed the discussion, saying: “Happy to continue this debate on the Floor of the People’s House, but it’s clearly not productive to engage here with some of your radical followers.”

Once again, we are seeing that it’s the Left who are flirting with aggression and violence… what Michael Bane calls “chumming for monsters”.

Can you tell us about similar incidences?



Rob- What would the media say if we called for murder.





Well the 116th Congress opened last week and two pro-gun bills were introduced. Both of these are old friends. One passed the House but was never called for a vote in the Senate. One got out of Committee but not out of Congress.

North Carolina representative John Hudson refiled his National Reciprocity Bill, that would allow legally armed citizens to avoid the minefield of different CCW regulations and carry anywhere (more or less) in these United States. We all know examples of people who have a home-state carry permit becoming illegal to carry when they arrive in a less friendly state – this legislation is designed to overcome this risk.

Last session, Hudson’s Bill passed the House with a 231 – 198 vote, but it’s sister Bill was never presented for. vote in the Senate, and the opportunity died. It will be interesting to see whether Speaker Pelosi will bring Hudson’s Bill to the House floor for a vote.

Also being reintroduced this session is the Hearing Protection Act. South Carolina representative Jeff Duncan moved the Bill that will remove Suppressors from National Firearms Act regulation. He wants to make suppressor use commonplace, much as it is in other countries, in order to protect hearing.

The Bill would be retroactive, meaning that the one-and-a-half million suppressors already in use would be deleted from ATF records. The consequence would that suppressors would be “downgraded” and be treated as regular firearms – anyone who could legally own a firearm could buy or sell a suppressor through an FFL.

Last year, the HPA was rolled into a larger package or pro-hunting legislation called the SHARE Act, which Speaker Ryan never brought for a vote.

Again, it will be interesting to see whether Speaker Pelosi brings this Bill forward.




Gun Quotes

“..states everywhere are highly intent on outlawing or at least controlling even the mere possession of arms by private citizens—and most states have indeed succeeded in this task—as an armed man is clearly more of a threat to any aggressor than an unarmed man. It bears much less risk for the state to keep things peaceful while its own aggression continues, if rifles with which the taxman could be shot are out of the reach of everyone except the taxman himself!”

Hans-Hermann Hoppe, A Theory of Socialism and Capitalism: Economics, Politics, and Ethics

Hang on everybody, we’ll be back with our guest (Name).


3- Interview 1 Kat Ainsworth

4- Interview 2


5- DGUs  (at beginning) These discussions are NOT legal advice. Some of us are trainers, but this is not formal training and YOU NEED formal training. The Defensive Gun Use segment is intended as information, NOT as training. As always the opinions of the hosts are only their own opinions and not those of any sponsors or other affiliations.

Belle- Huntsville, Alabama
Some things in this world are a given.  Nothing good happens after midnight. Criminals will get guns no matter what laws you pass.

A fight broke out at Club 3208 in Huntsville on Monday morning.  The fight resulted in the ejection from the club of the convicted felon.  The security team herded the suspect out of the club and kept the patrons inside in case things escalated.

The felon did go to his car but he did not get in and drive away.  Instead, he produced an AK-pattern rifle and started firing at the club.

He started walking back toward the club and firing shots, so security officer Latoya made the choice to stop him.  As he came toward the door, she moved behind a vehicle parked in a handicap spot near the door to the club. She used the vehicle for cover and concealment and when she had a chance she shot the armed felon.  One of her shots hit him in the leg.

The security officer then rendered aid once the area was deemed safe.  The man was transported to the hospital by friends where the police caught up with him.  He was arrested after being patched up and faces numerous charges.



John – What I love about this story is that the security guard was not some beefy guy but an armed woman.

Grant – didn’t we recently run an interview with Mas Ayoob and his “Designated Defender” concept? This is another example.



Tracy –Midlothian, Texas
Like many husbands, the man really didn’t want to wander around a grocery store with his wife at 7 pm.  He chose instead to wait in the car.

As he waited in the car, he was approached by a 21 year-old man and a 17 year-old girl.

“What’s up?” the man asked as he slid into the passenger seat of the vehicle.  The woman also got in to the rear seat behind the driver.

The victim realized he did not know the pair almost immediately.  The man in the passenger seat reached under his shirt and indicated he was armed and told him, “The next thing you say, you’re going to heaven.”

Unfazed by the threat, the victim reached into a bag next himself and pulled out his own .40-caliber handgun.  He pointed the gun at the would be robber and said, “Let’s go!”

The pair quickly exited the vehicle and walked toward the store.  The victim tried to stop them from entering the store but was not successful.

By the time police arrived, the suspects were identified exiting the store.  They tried to walk away from the officers but the officers grabbed them by the arms and took them into custody.





Warren, Ohio

Kenneth York, his wife and their dog woke up to noises outside their home at 1 AM.

York got up and armed himself with a handgun he kept close by, and headed toward the noises at the back door.  Although it was dark, he could see a large man breaking a glass panel in the door. It appeared he was using a shovel.

York asked, “What the hell are you doing? Get out of here.”

He came in anyway.  York backed up behind the refrigerator in the other room and stuck his gun out and told the intruder that he has a gun and he would shoot him.

The intruder came at him.  He told him to stop and backed up a little.  As the aggressor came through the doorway, he shot him.

If that was not enough, the intruder asked, “What size a gun is that?” to which York replied, “big enough to kill you.”  And with that, he came at him again.

And then the effects of being shot must have caught up with the burglar and he collapsed.

He had hit the man in the upper arm even though we was aiming at center mass.  He held him at gunpoint while his wife called 911. Warren police arrived quickly and took the suspect to the hospital then to the county jail at about 4 AM.

Capt. Robert Massucci, chief of detectives for the Warren Police Department, said Kenneth York fired “just out of fear of this guy,” who was “twice [his] size.” Detectives discussed the matter with the city prosecutor’s office and determined York was “justified in what he did,” Massucci said.

The suspect has a lengthy record and was booked for aggravated burglary in this case.


Gary- Broken Arrow, Oklahoma

It appears that Broken Arrow is not the place to live if you don’t want to have to deal with crime.  In this case, it is not clear if the intended victim and the suspects were known to each other. WE know it is unusual for 5 people to show up to burglarize a house during the night.

The homeowner was armed when they entered the home at 4:45 AM.  He fired 5 or 6 times and hit one of the suspects several times.  He was at the door when police arrived and moved to the street where lifesaving procedures were performed.

The other men with the injured suspect were not hit nor were the houses nearby.

Police waited several hours for a search warrant before they went into the home to search for evidence of what the intruders were after.  The homeowner was questioned at police headquarters and returned home where he was questioned further.



Yuma County, Arizona

The Sheriff’s Office responded to a 911 call at 1:38 AM recenty and discovered 4 individuals.  Those four were all shot after they broke into a home.

They woke the home’s occupants and one of them was armed.  The occupants fired several times and hit all four of the intruders. Three of the suspects were rushed to the hospital where one was pronounced dead.  The injuries of the fourth were not clear.

The case was still being investigated.


Grant – We post each of our news and defensive gun  use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com Please take a minute and share them with a friend. We’ll be back with our email and blog notes, and show close, right after this


6- E-mail, blog notes, and show close

Listener e-mail discussion


Rob- this is from Roger – Hi Fellow Instructors on The Polite Society Podcast,

I’m a self-defense instructor in the Lancaster Pennsylvania area. Please announce a class I’m having called “Protecting Our Houses of Worship”.

I give this two and a half hour course, free of charge, to members of security/safety teams for churches, synagogues and mosques in my area. This course emphasizes the specific knowledge and tactics required for that situation and goes beyond my concealed carry classes.

Thank you and keep up the good work.

Roger E. Temple-  Sheepdog Firearm Training LLC

~_John – I’m reminded of an atrocity in his area a few years ago when an Amish school ~_

John – This email is from Kirk – In reference to Episode 476, you gentlemen discussed the DGU case of Mr. Crepeau out of Missoula.  While this was a successful DGU, you gentlemen became quite animated. Paul sounded angry at one point, followed by what seemed to be mocking by the co-hosts when Mr.

Crepeau is quoted as saying, “training, training, training.”

I have been a martial arts and self-defense instructor for decades.

I think it is possible that you gentlemen might have made unwarranted assumptions about Mr. Crepeau training.  Beyond the “Israeli Method,” did you know that it was standard doctrine in the U.S. military for decades that Officers carrying semi-automatic pistols should carry with the chamber empty? A better discussion could have been from the perspective of “while this worked, how can we improve the strategy and technique?”

To satisfy my own curiously, I looked up the original story and, as it turns out, Mr. Crepeau is a former competitive shooter.   This is indicative of some sort of training,

Just because most of our current standards are arguably “better” does not mean that what came before is therefore “bad.” If any of this comes across as impolite, I apologize.  It is not my intention. Please, going forward, be careful about making assumptions and how commentary sounds.

Thank you for your time,


Gary- Hi Kirk. Thank you for writing in. I’m going to explain what I want our listeners to do if they were in that situation. It would take extraordinary circumstance to recommend clearing your own house without a live round in the chamber. Time is short and Mr. Crepeau’s character is not being questioned. I will recommend what I understand to be best practice.


Rob- Was Mr Crepeau lucky or was he good?

Grant – he was “crepeau” out of luck

Rob- Grant, you made me laugh.


John – This email is from Jeremy – Listening to your recent show, I want to call you all out to task. Are we so afraid of the Federal government that we should just roll over? We need to get out of our comfort zone and stand for our Rights EVEN in the face of government prosecution. Our American ancestors gave their lives, their fortunes, and their sacred honor. We need to do better and come together with a collective NO and tell the government that they have no authority to enact any kind of gun legislation or regulation.

Constitutional advocate and Liberty lobbyist KrisAnne Hall has written an open letter for anyone to use to send to every Senator or Representative, it doesn’t matter if they are from your State or not as their vote affects you as well. Her letter can be found here: http://krisannehall.com/index.php/resources/articles/218-open-letter-re-gun-legislation

I would implore you all and your other listeners to do this to stand up for everyone’s Rights.

Jeremy in Iowa

Rob- I have to call my representatives.

Grant- yes, Jeremy


Grant: Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?


My articles are up at Clash Daily, at Ammoland and at my blog, slow facts dot wordpress dot com.  John, tell us what’s new at your blog no lawyers only guns and money.

John- My latest posts outline the new gun bills that have been or will be introduced in Congress. By the time this podcast is aired, a universal background check bill in honor of Gabby Giffords will be introduced. Mind you the killer passed a NICS check. There are also pro-gun rights bills but let’s get real – they are going nowhere. Expect more to come. I also have a post up about education versus training. It was spurred by an op-ed by Congresswoman Virginia Foxx. The key phrase is that education is for humans and training is for animals. We need to stop saying that a person needs “more training” with firearms and say they need more education. Read the post and let me know what you think.

That and more is at only guns and money dot blogspot dot com.

Facebook listeners group

Grant: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast.  I’d like to thank Kat Ainsworth for joining us today. So for Amy, Tracy, Belle, Dana, Douglas, Gary, John, Rachel, Susan, Paul and Rob,

(Paul, stop talking now)

Rob: Until the next time…

Gary: stay safe,

Belle: be aware,

John: and we’ll see you down the road.

Episode 477 – Brandon Combs from FPC – Kat and Belle


Paul: Welcome to the polite society podcast powered by the Firearms Policy Coalition recorded on Tuesday, January 1st, 2019, I’m Paul Lathrop

Rob: I’m Rob Morse and on tonight’s show we will talk with Brandon Combs about bringing the bump stock ban into court, and to Kat Ainsworth to talk some more about domestic abuse.

John: I’m John Richardson, and we’ll talk about police in Rio de Janeiro resorting to snipers, so climb aboard.

Rob: strap in.

Paul, and hang on! Episode 477 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.

Personal news from each participant

Rob- I carried and dry practiced, and took relatives to the range. I’m may have found a producer for the Spanish edition of self-defense gun stories. I’m looking for a host and spanish speaking instructors.

John- In our last show I said I planned to deer hunt with my AR. After checking, I didn’t have hunting ammo and couldn’t get it in time so I went real old school with my Savage Model 1920 bolt action in .300 Savage. I did get in three days of deer hunting but the deer were elsewhere. That’s why it’s called hunting and not shooting. If you are frugal, now is the time to start looking for sales on hunting accessories with big game seasons winding down. I got some good buys today. I would also like to add my condolences to Amy on the passing of her father this past week.

Grant- Well, Och-Aye the noo. I’m sorry I’m not with you tonight, but I’ll be with you in spirit – a 12 year old single malt from Islay (“eye-la”) called “Machir”, from the Kilchoman (“kill-KO-man”) distillery, to be precise. In Scotland we call the last day of the year “Hogmanay” (pronounced “hUG-manay”) and there are a number of traditions that take place after “The Bells”. Tradition holds that the New Year hasn’t arrived until someone has come to visit. This person is your “First Foot” and brings gifts such as a lump of coal and a kind of cake called “Black Bun”. There’s a traditional greeting and hope for a good new year, which is “lang may yer lum reek”, which translates to “may your chimney always be warm”, more or less. So – Happy New Year to all our podcasters and podcast listeners – it’s going to be cold and clear here tonight, as we say, “It’ll be a braw, bricht, moonlicht nicht the nicht”. Yo-Ho-Ho! and may 2019 bring us all peace and happiness.

Paul/Susan Got home after several delays and somehow caught the crud.

Promo about upcoming training classes here.

Grant asks if we could remind people about National Train a Teacher day on July 20th.

PATCHES– Yes, we still have PSP patches though sales have been very slow. Price is $8 ppd. Send PayPal to john@politicsandguns.com or an email to that address if you want to pay by check. As I said all proceeds will go to the Second Amendment Foundation. I was able to send them $80.47 this week which should help with their 2A lawsuits.

Ask listeners to listen to other shows on the network, name at least 2 shows.


2- News

POLITE SOCIETY NEWS, December 31st 2018

Hi everyone. Please remember to send your comments on the news to “onair@politicsandguns.com


News Segment One

I think this article of Rob’s should be discussed:

It may be that you use this good news as the only news!




It seems that Wilson Witzel,  the new Governor of Rio de Janeiro, has decided to take a firm hand with criminals in Brazil’s postcard city. He’s authorized teams of marksmen to cover the city with a “License to Kill”.

Tired of the widespread use of firearms by the city’s criminals, the Governor has permitted as many as 120 marksmen to accompany police on incursions into the crime and violence ridden slums.

The marksmen will work in pairs, one to shoot, and one to spot, monitor conditions and videotape. Governor Witzel is a Brazilian Federal judge and a former marine with the Brazilian military. He told reporters that, “the protocol will be to immediately neutralize anyone found on the streets with a rifle – they aren’t worried about other people’s live and this is a grave problem all across Brazil”. There were five thousand, three hundred forty-six murders in Rio in 2017.

The policy is part of an election campaign promise from President-elect Jair Bolsonaro, that there would be a “brutal” crackdown on the criminals who make life so harrowing for everyday Brazilians. This trial initiative in Rio will be the first test of the new President’s policy of “maximum force.”

Groups of twenty police will begin a month-long training in long range marksmanship. Once they are proficient at six hundred meters, they will be sent into action. Witzel said that the filming is essential to prove that those targeted “deserve killing”. He added that criminals “do not need to be actively shooting”, in order to be targeted by the new marksman teams.

Wiztel has also created a security council that answers directly to him. He envisions surveillance using thirty thousand cameras around the city and he has been studying advanced facial recognition software, and the use of drones.

So – do you think your town needs shoot-on-sight policing? Write and tell us at onair at politics and guns dot com



Paul – While this is not in the United States, I am VERY concerned about the lack of due process

Rob- Stop a crime in progress.

John – The new president of Brazil is saying he wants to liberalize the gun laws to allow ordinary citizens easier access




This story comes to us from the National Shooting Sports Foundation. We have heard recently, that newly published data from the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) show that firearm-related deaths are at record highs. This is a great headline for the gun-grabbers, but as you might expect, it isn’t the whole story – far from it.

CDC very helpfully breaks down the overall data into: homicides, suicides and unintentional fatalities. Now, the gun-grabber headlines begin to look a little fuzzy. For example, CDC’s data show that the number of fatal firearms related accidents is only 66% of what it was twenty years ago.

Also, gun grabbers were elated to tell us that the number of all firearms deaths exceeded those involving cars. This is true of you only consider the raw numbers. However when you consider the number of car deaths as a proportion of the number of cars, cars are involved in way more deaths – 117 deaths per 1M US population. Firearms accidents resulted in only 1 death per million population, down from 3 per million in 1999. And of course, we all know that violent crime generally continues to fall, even though firearms ownership continues to rise… or, perhaps that *because*…

We recently heard Rob Pincus remind us that the sad truth is that around two-thirds of firearms deaths occur in suicide completions, and we can all do more to be attuned to the signs of desperation in our friends and family members.

As part of this effort, NSSF and other parts of the firearms industry is working with over fifteen thousand law enforcement agencies across the country. This includes efforts such as “Project Childsafe”. They have also distributed more than thirty-seven million firearms locks throughout the country.

NSSF has also partnered with the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention to help raise awareness, to give insight to signs someone may be at risk, and provide options for safe firearms storage.

So, the next time you see a dramatic click-bait headline, take a moment and think about what message the writers want you to believe. Perhaps go to the source and take a look at it, and then email us at: onair at politics and guns dot com to tell us what you think.



John – It reminds me of a story in Bloomberg’s The Trace. They have a map where you can find all violent firearms uses and homicides in a 5 mile radius from a location. I tried it around my house. There were 3 homicides in the last 5 years. So,.. What isn’t said that 2 out of 3 of these were police involved shootings.




In what is considered an historic action, but houses of the Ohio General Assembly has overturned Governor Kasich’s veto of House Bill 228. The Bill was originally vetoed by Governor Kaisich because it included so-called “stand-your-ground” protections for concealed carriers in the Buckeye State, and also failed to contain a red-flag law.

The legislators brought the rejection to the floor of both houses, where it passed bigly – in the house by 67-to-22 and in the same by 21-to-11. The Governor could not stop the legislators from executing the will of the people of Ohio.

The bill contains many improvements for Ohio’s four million gun owners, and here are the highlights:

* Makes gun owners innocent until proven guilty in self-defense shootings – previously, you would have had to prove that you were innocent.

* Strengthens the State’s preemption laws to make it more difficult for cities and other districts to create their one gun laws.

* Makes the Mossberg “Shockwave” and similar self-defense firearms legal

Provides greater facility for the authorities to prosecute those who make so-called ‘straw” purchases.

* Expands firearm access for off-duty police officers.

Buckeye Firearms noted that many legislators and their staff put in extra work to make this happen and thanked them. This will be Governor Kaisich’s last term.

Paul – It’s a GREAT bit of news.






For the gun grabbers, Christmas isn’t so much about the season of goodwill to all, but just about another opportunity. This time they’ve decided to invite kids with toy guns to swap them for something “appropriate”.

On December 13th, in the middle of prime “Yo-Ho-HO” season, the village of Hempstead hosted the Long Island Toy Gun Exchange Program. Each child received one politically correct toy for each water pistol, nerf gun or other toy gun they turned in.

The toys for the turn in were supplied by local businessman Sam Acosta, who made it clear that it was an intention to turn children away from the firearms culture. HE said: “It has to start at a young age, If we can get them to say, ‘It’s not cool to carry these toy guns,’ then maybe when they get older, they won’t ever carry a real gun.” He didn’t distinguish legal and illegal gun use in his comments.

This is the third toy-gun turn-in hosted by Hempstead, and the message about indoctrinating children has remained the same: guns are bad – all guns are bad”. Over the years many things have been used to bribe kids out of their toy guns – even slices of pizza.

SO – is hot harmful for children to act out aggression? Does it lead to real aggression? Do toy guns have a useful role in preparing children to handle real firearms later in life? How did *you* introduce your children to guns? Write to us with your opinions at onair at politics and guns dot com

Paul – I played a LOT with guns as a child. Including a pellet rifle at about age 5.

Rob- I want children to play with guns..and we play with our children. Even a finger gun. Teach our children firearms safety before they have  a gun.




John- Gun Quotes

We must be ready to dare all for our country. For history does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. We must acquire proficiency in defense and display stamina in purpose.  We must be willing, individually and as a Nation, to accept whatever sacrifices may be required of us. A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both.

Dwight D. Eisenhower

Hang on everybody, we’ll be back with our guest Brandon Combs.


3- Interview 1 Brandon Combs


4- Interview 2 Kat Ainsworth Segment 3 (pre recorded)

5- DGUs  (at beginning) These discussions are NOT legal advice. Some of us are trainers, but this is not formal training and YOU NEED formal training. The Defensive Gun Use segment is intended as information, NOT as training. As always the opinions of the hosts are only their own opinions and not those of any sponsors or other affiliations.

John – Reidsville, North Carolina

Nothing good happens between midnight and 4 AM usually. At 2:15 AM on Christmas morning, two men dressed in all black clothing and wearing masks and gloves walked into a Stop and Shop Convenience Store in Reidsville, North Carolina.

The men showed a handgun to the cashier and then held cashier and two other people in the store at gunpoint while they proceeded to rob the store.

Fortunately, one of the customers was armed at the time.

At his earliest opportunity, he pulled his firearm and shot at the two robbers.

The robbers left the store and got in a vehicle and left headed east on Highway 158. There was a getaway driver in the vehicle at the time.

The two robbers have been identified and are being sought. Police believed they had been wounded by the customer but had not shown up at any local hospital.


Rob- Thank you for thinking about this with us.

Paul- Good job on the part of the customer for waiting for an opportunity to draw.

Rob- Antioch, Tennessee
When an 18 year old man showed up at the home of his girlfriend or ex-girlfriend, it was not a friendly visit. He kicked his way in and threatened the girl’s mother. She or the man’s child with him were there at the time.

The girl’s mother told him to leave and began putting his belongings which had been stored at the home on the front porch. During the commotion, the girl’s brothers came up from a downstairs den and confronted the man.

The intruder punched one of the brothers and then walked to his car, telling them he “had something for them.”

They were concerned that he was going to arm himself.

When he returned to the porch, one of the brothers shot him in the torso. The intruder went back to his car where he was found by responding officers. He died there.

The two brothers left the home but soon returned and surrendered the gun to officers. No gun was found in the vehicle or on the intruder.

The investigation was ongoing and will turned over to the District Attorney’s office to determine if charges will be filed.

This suspect was found in the gun memorial site.


John- Never leave the scene. It automatically makes your behavior look suspicious.
Paul- This MAY have been a good shoot, but leaving the scene creates a HUGE amount of suspicion

Rob- Call the police as you go get your gun.

John- New Orleans, Louisiana

The robber walked into a New Orleans Auto Zone with a gun at 6 PM on the Friday before Christmas and yelled, “Open up the register or I’mma kill you!”

The man received $886 from the register and started to leave. The manager of the store was also armed and fired about seven rounds at him. The robber was hit and managed to make it to a local motel parking lot before collapsing. Police located him there and transported him to University Medical Center where he was treated and will survive.

The glass front door and a window were shattered from the apparent bullet holes. There were three evidence cones outside the store and one inside the store.

His bail was set at $100,000 and he was appointed a public defender. The store manager had not been charged.

Paul – Of course there are exceptions, but NEVER shoot at a fleeing felon.

Rob- South Pasadena, California
Two men walked into Vana Watch and Jewelry and loitered around the store for a few minutes. The business owner saw the men on the security monitor and came out of the back to the floor where is nephew was working.

The two scuffled with the owner and attempted to stab him before another employee pointed a gun at the men. The two fled.


Rob- The nephew had the gun. He pointed it the scrum as the robbers wrestled with his uncle. I wish he had more training.

Paul- Never point a gun at anything you are not willing to kill or destroy

John- Lawrence, Indiana
A man was sitting in his car in a shopping center parking lot when another man got in and showed him a gun. He demanded money. The victim told the robber he had no cash so the robber instructed him to drive to a Chase Bank branch in the same parking lot.

At the time, there was an armored truck stocking the branch’s ATMs so the victim attempted to steer towards it hoping for some help. When the robber told him to avoid the truck, a fight broke out.

The victim grabbed his gun and they started fighting in the vehicle at close quarters over the gun.

During the struggle over the gun, the car crashed into a nearby fence and both men exited the car.

Unknown to the robbery suspect, he was not the only one armed. The victim also had a firearm and an exchange to gunfire took place.

The suspect was struck twice. The intended victim was also shot but is now home recovering.

At the time of the gunfight, Lawrence Police officers were down the street and responded to the sound of the shooting.

“They hear the gunfire and immediately respond, and they’re able to stabilize the situation and make an almost immediate apprehension of the suspect,” Deputy Chief Gary Woodruff said.

The robber now faces charges including armed robbery, aggravated battery and criminal confinement. He also had an arrest warrant for a previous arrest from an unrelated robbery. He was in serious but stable condition.


Paul – Gary would remind everyone that you can program your car to not unlock when you put your car in park.

Rob- Local PD with elevated tower in the parking lot, and extra deputies in the mall.

John- Kinda like a deer stand for criminals.

We post each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com  Please take a minute and share them with a friend.


6- E-mail, blog notes, and show close



(nb – the amount of brandy can be substituted by whisky – the volume can be doubled or tripled. A tradition might include wrapping several little coins in greaseproof paper and distributing them in the mix in order to provide little charms for the year).

Listener e-mail discussion

Rob- Hello crew,

I’m invoking the NRR (no recipe rule).  Our mag ban case has now been advanced to an En Banc hearing at the 3rd circus court.  This will be the last stop before the SCOTUS. Sorry to hear about the accident Paul. I too am a driver.  I run a dash cam all the time. It is a must. Lastly, Self Defense Gun Stories is one of the network podcasts that I listen to regularly.  Hope all have had a Merry Christmas. Happy new year!

South Jersey Shooter

Paul –

Rob- 85

John-  Clayton writes and liked our comments on the DGU where an armed woman with her carry license stopped an escaped convict a few feet from her bedroom door.

Quote-I would like to name Rob MVP of episode 474. When he jumped on the DGU and said the defender didn’t need a CCW to legally defend her home, but that her training was critically important.  That shut down any stray thoughts a listener might have about people skipping out on training! Her mindset and weapon handling skills are likely the only reason she survived that escaped prison inmate’s home invasion attack.

Great discussion everyone, thanks for everything you do and an extra thanks to whomever took over the show when Paul and Susan were away. I much prefer a smaller crew to an absent show!

Carry on, Clayton


Paul: Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?

Rob- I wrote this on Christmas eve. We celebrate that a saviour was born who would die to save us. That is an inspiring message. We are called upon to be good. We are supposed to face evil without becoming an evil person ourselves. Many people do that in today in visible and difficult ways. It is our duty to protect the people we love until help arrives..and to thank the people who help us.

These good men and women remind me of my many blessings.

Our listeners are one of my blessings. Thank you for all you do. You are not alone. Stay safe in body and spirit until help arrives.

A Year of Evil and Saviors

My articles are up at Clash Daily, Full30, Ammoland and at my blog, slow facts dot wordpress dot com.  John, tell us what’s new at your blog no lawyers only guns and money.

John – Since our last show, there have been three more lawsuits filed against the bump stock ban. GOA filed theirs in Michigan, journalist David Codrea filed one in DC, and the Firearms Policy Coalition filed one challenging the ability of purported Acting AG Matthew Whitaker to even sign the rule. Three of the lawsuits are now attacking the ban based upon the merits while the FPC lawsuit is taking an interesting tack by attacking it on procedural issues. This last suit has the potential to be resolved the quickest and may end up in the Supreme Court.

That and more is at only guns and money dot blogspot dot com.

Paul – John, I noticed a post on your blog about the annual possum drop, were you able to attend that North Carolina tradition?

Facebook listeners group

Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast.  I’d like to thank (Guests) for joining us today. So for Amy, Tracy, Belle, Dana, Douglas, Gary, John, Rachel, Susan, Grant and Rob,

Rob: Until the next time…

Paul: stay safe,

Rob : be aware,

John: and we’ll see you down the road.

Episode 475 – An Interview with Charles Heller

Please visit show sponsor Ammo.com

1- Introduction

John – Welcome to the polite society podcast powered by the Firearms Policy Coalition recorded on Monday, December 17th, 2018, I’m John Richardson.

Rob: I’m Rob Morse and on tonight’s show we will talk with Charles Heller about Tucson Arizona virtue signaling with taxpayer dollars.

Grant: I’m Grant Gallagher, and we’ll talk about the recently released report on the Parkland school mass murders.

Gary: I’m Gary Daugherty and in one of our DGUs Those ex-boyfriends are at it again… so climb aboard

Rob: strap in

Grant : and hang on!

John:  episode 475 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.

Show intro music.

Personal news from each participant (when you are done with your segment please ask the next person what has been up with them)

Rob- Bill Frady and I talked about Self-Defense Gun Stories.  That was on his Lock and Load Radio program. ???and I recorded another Episode of Self-Defense Gun Stories. I’m still looking for a bilingual host to produce the show in spanish.


Grant- I conducted my last class of 2018 on Saturday, our beginner handgun class, the class went well and my EMT co-instructor Pete from Berin Arms did a great job. It’s always good to work with motivated students, and always interesting to see what guns they bring. This class, someone brought an M&P 380-EeZee. It’s remarkable how well that slide is set up and how easily it can be manipulated, and she shot well with it.

John – As you might expect in the South, the snow is quickly fading away. I did do some more “gunsmithing” this week finishing up projects. I have also started getting ready for the SHOT Show which starts little more than a month from now. If any of our listeners want me to check out certain new product releases, they can either send feedback to our show email or to me directly at john@politicsandguns.com.

Promo about upcoming training classes here.

Grant – well, classes are over for this year, but next year is looming. We are going to be offering a mix of USCCA and NRA classes, including Instructor classes for both organizations, in handgun, rifle and home defense. We also have National Train a Teacher Day on July 27th. So if any of that sounds interesting, email me on Grant-at-scotshot-dot-com for more details

PATCHES – Yes, we still have PSP patches. I think they would make a great stocking stuffer! Price is $8 ppd. Send PayPal to john@politicsandguns.com or an email to that address if you want to pay by check. Proceeds go to the Second Amendment Foundation.

Ask listeners to listen to other shows on the network, name at least 2 shows.


2- News

POLITE SOCIETY NEWS, December 17th 2018

Hi everyone. Please remember to send your comments on the news to “onair@politicsandguns.com”




At last, the preliminary report on the Parkland mass murder is out and it contains some real insight into what happened inside the school. The draft report sheds light on things the took place inside the school on that day.

It had been speculated that the murderer pulled a firearm to bring targets out into the crowded hallways. That isn’t true, it was dust and gun smoke that triggered the fire alarm.

The murderer only shot people in his line of sight. He never entered a classroom.

The teachers were isolated. They made their own decisions to shelter in the hardened corners, only doing so when they heard gunshots.

The teachers sheltering in the hardened corners of classrooms never used the school’s PA system, because the call button was not in the hardened corners.

There had not been an active shooter drill in the school in at least a year. The teachers did not call a “code red”. So, when they heard the fire alarm, some of them evacuated their classrooms.

All classroom walls were made of sheetrock and offered no protection from gunfire. Students murdered inside classrooms and hiding in the “hard” corners were shot by chance.

Local 911 dispatchers were not in direct contact with the Broward County Sheriff Department, because their office did not handle emergency services for the school.

Six people entered statements that they had previously reported concerns about the murderer to the school authorities.

As we will see in our next story, the report has changed the minds of may people, when it comes to allowing volunteer armed teachers to protect students.

Once you’ve looked at the report, we’d love to hear your thoughts. Email them to: onair at politics and guns dot com.

Rob, this was your story, why not fill in some of your thoughts?

Rob- This attack could have been much worse with much greater loss of life. We saw gross incompetence. Police from different jurisdictions and fire/EMTs could not communicate with each other by radio. Requests to use non-standard communications networks were delayed or denied. The school staff, the police, and EMTs would have discovered those shortcomings if they had walked through an attack during a drill.

There are phone apps for emergency response. Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel told his staff to take these apps off their phone. He wanted to be in charge.

The Broward county leos failed. That was true for sros, sargents, and incident commanders.

Coral Springs LEOs moved toward the gunfire as they were trained to do.

There was a lot of discussion in the report on “unified command and control”. That misses the point. The event will be over by the time you set up and staff your command and control network.

John – I’m kind of surprised to learn that the classroom walls were sheetrock. I’ve never been in a school that didn’t have cinderblock hall walls.


Grant – these communications issues were highlighted in the Sept 11th attacks – there’s no excuse for it now.







As we reported last week, Sheriff Bob Gualtieri has reversed his opinion on whether volunteer  school teachers should be armed, and this past Wednesday, the commission investigating the murders voted 13 for, and one against, allowing volunteer armed teachers in schools.

He said, “People need to keep an open mind to it as the reality is that if someone else in the school had a gun it could have saved kids’ lives.”

The murderer stopped firing five times to reload. No one in the school was armed and able to take advantage of these gaps in the attack.

One of the Report’s authors said, “The Parkland Commission’s decision in favor of arming teachers is rational and founded in common sense. While many commissions often come to feel-good conclusions, the Parkland commission here came to very effective, clear and definitive recommendations.”

He continued that they will make a major improvement in protecting the lives of the children and teachers in Florida. It’s only a tragedy that it took seventeen lives to bring Florida to the same conclusion of so many other States.

So- are you in a state where the teachers are allowed to be armed? What do you think. Email: onair at politics and guns dot com

Rob- That recommendation from the advisory commission probably won’t be acted on. The florida school guardian program takes more than four weeks of training. Programs in other states take less than four days of training. The guardian program is only for non-classroom teachers. That is great if we have to protect the football field, but not so good if we want to protect our students who are usually located in the classroom.

John- NC just held hearings on school safety with public and LEO input.








Pennsylvania is one of many states with so-called “State Preemption” over gun laws, meaning that individual towns, cities and districts in the state cannot create their own firearms laws within the State. However, this isn’t enough for Pittsburgh mayor William Petudo. He has his own ideas, preemption be damned.

He recently held a press conference proposing three new laws that are in direct conflict with State law, and State supreme court precedent. He was joined by State Governor Tom Wolff. Perhaps coincidentally, Governor Wolff received a half a million dollars of support from the Bloomberg front, Everyone for Gun Safety.

The laws are:

  • A complete ban on semiautomatic rifles shotguns and AR pistols
  • A ban on a whole slew of accessories, including: bump stocks, aftermarket triggers, silencers/suppressors, semi-automatic rifles with a detachable magazine and a pistol grip, magazines of more than 10 rounds, and others
  • A “Red Flag” law that allows reporting by family members, for a variety of reasons including marijuana use, and “other reasons” that might be accepted by a court.

The good Mayor is so enamored of his initiative that he has written to other cities across the country to do the same. Council member Corey O’Connor, who helped author the proposals, said, “Pittsburgh must seize the opportunity to make a real difference by partnering with other municipalities in the Commonwealth, and cities across America, to enact gun restrictions.”

The initiative is firmly against State law and State legal precedent. The case of “Ortiz v Commonwealth” spelled out clearly that a previous attempt by Pittsburgh and Philadelphia to defy state preemption was “frivolous”. So, Pittsburgh should be under no illusions. However, they are toeing the Bloomberg line, and will no doubt once again spend taxpayer money to defend the inevitable lawsuit.

Write to us, please, at onair at politics and guns dot com, and tell us what your state, city or township is up to.

Grant – I love that she “helped author” the bill – I guess that means she received the email from Bloomberg and pressed “print”

Rob- this was a bunch of word salad for gun control. I’ve talked with people who set up security programs in their synagogues.

Grant- the laws follow the same format as that introduced in the House of REpresentatives – it’s so OBVIOUS that this is a National gun control initiative sent from a central location and not at all authored at the local level.


John- The sad thing is that the PA Sup Ct is now totally in the hands of Democrats so precedent may go out the window along with the black letter law.




As Former Darling of the Left State Venezuela continues to spiral into tribal feudality under its socialist dictator, President Maduro, some are bitterly regretting not opposing successive waves of gun banning.

In 2012, then president Hugo Chavez enacted the “Control of Arms, Munitions and Disarmament Law”, with the explicit aim of disarming all citizens. The law banned the legal sale of guns and ammunition to anyone other than government entities.

There was a month-long amnesty – which collected only thirty-seven guns – followed by forcible seizures of 12,500 firearms. In 2014 the government spent more than $47 million dollars enforcing the gun bans and making grand public demonstrations of firearm destructions. The penalty for selling a firearm now is 20 years in prison.

Pro-Democracy activists have taken to the streets, and since April 2017, 200 of them have been shot dead by government police. Government-backed local groups – called “collectivos” have been going on crime rampages – since 2015 there have been 28,000 murders.

Pro-democracy spokesmen said: “Venezuelans didn’t care enough about their firearms. The idea of having the means to protect your home was seen as only needed out in the fields. People never would have believed they needed to defend themselves against the government,”

“Venezuela shows the deadly peril when citizens are deprived of the means of resisting the depredations of a criminal government,” said David Kopel of Denver University.

Although the bill was sold to the population as a hardline effort to improve security, and sharply reduce crime, many now point to Venezuela as a case study for how gun prohibition can actually produce the opposite effect.

Well – does that sound familiar? It’s unlikely that there will be such violence here in the USA, but do you think that a total gun ban is likely to happen? Write and let us know. The address is onair at politics and guns dot com.

John – Authoritarian regimes always need an unarmed populace to succeed in controlling people. It was that way in the USSR, Nazi German, Red China, and the list goes on.

Grant – gun bans, leading to knife bans.. Etc…




Rob- They have a fantasy ideology that is divorced from reality. Government makes you helpless and then says you need more government for protection. That is a protection racket.

Grant – how does boulder outlaw a state CCW permit?




Gun Quotes- It is not the function of the government to keep the citizen from falling into error;

it is the function of the citizen to keep the government from falling into error.

Supreme Court Justice Robert H. Jackson

Hang on everybody, we’ll be back with our guest (Charles Heller).


3- Interview 1 Charles Heller- 520.870.2700

Radio personality and media spokesman for AzCDL

Tucson City Council to discuss gun dealer policy

Tucson can choose where to buy new firearms and police equipment.

Tucson PD has to sell used and confiscated firearms. They can choose where to sell them. The city council says they can set the terms of sale.

State preemption

Are they restricted to sell to the highest bidder in a sale and the lowest bidder in a purchase?

Sell to art dealers for scrap?

John- Tucson seems to be more left or Democratic than the rest of the state. Why is this?

Grant- well, not really, AZ elected a  D senator…

JOhn, will you close w charles? – ask him how people can link with then in Az



One minute

4- Interview 2

John- DGUs  (at beginning) These discussions are NOT legal advice. Some of us are trainers, but this is not formal training and YOU NEED formal training. The Defensive Gun Use segment is intended as information, NOT as training. As always the opinions of the hosts are only their own opinions and not those of any sponsors or other affiliations.

John – Tulsa, Oklahoma

Those ex-boyfriends are at it again. They still haven’t learned the meaning of no means no.

Last week, a 42 year-old ex-boyfriend went to the ex-girlfriend’s apartment.  They had been broken up for a while but he was trying to get back together with her.

He pressured her to allow him to spend the night on her couch.

At 7 AM, police were dispatched to the apartment in response to a domestic shooting call.

The woman told law enforcement that while she was getting out of the shower, the ex attempted to sexually assault her.  During the struggle, she was able to retrieve a firearm and shoot him several times.

She told police that he continued his assault while she was getting her gun.

Witnesses reported hearing a woman’s screams and then gunshots.  The woman had several marks on her face and disclosed the sexual assault while speaking with a nurse after the shooting.

He was transported to the hospital where he succumbed to his wounds five days later.

Authorities did not anticipate any arrests or charges but she may still be interviewed by homicide detectives.


Grant – don’t bring an ex boyfriend to your sofa….

Rob- Don’t be that guy or that gal.



Grant – Moon Township, Pennsylvania

We always like the thugs who don’t take our advice about taking a knife to a gunfight.

This 34 year old thug was taken to the hospital after he was found outside a CVS pharmacy in Carnegie, on the south side of Pittsburgh.  The suspect was taken at about 11:45 PM and had told law enforcement that he had been robbed at gunpoint.

An hour earlier, a 48 year-old Moon Township man had called 911 to report that he had been stabbed by another man and had fired a gun at the person.  He was transported to the hospital where he died from the stab wounds.

Shortly afterwards, Carnegie police responded to the CVS parking lot where our hapless thug was found with a gunshot wound to the arm.

Police later determined that the suspect was the person they were seeking in the stabbing of the moon township man.

It appears that he went to the residence to confront the victim, possibly about a romantic relationship he was having with a female that they were both acquainted with.

The thug will be taken to Allegheny County Jail upon his release from the hospital.


Gary- Houston, Texas

A man and his nephew were arguing inside the uncle’s home recently when it turned to a DGU.

The fight started over the phone and ended when the nephew arrived at the home.

The two exchanged threats and then the uncle followed the nephew into his bedroom.

The uncle reported to investigators that he feared for his life and that is why he shot his nephew in the leg.

The nephew’s girlfriend took him to the hospital where he died.

He had recently moved in with his uncle and aunt but they were in the process of making him leave.  The uncle is being questioned and is cooperating.

The nephew was a safety on the Fort Bend Marshall High School football team which was to play a semi-final football game two days later.  Their opponent in that game had announced that they would put his #3 on their helmets.


Rob- Metairie, Louisiana

A 27 year-old woman called police just before 9 PM to report that she had shot her husband in their home.

When Jefferson Parrish Sheriff’s officers arrived, they found that the 27 year-old husband had been shot multiple times.  He died where he lay. They took her into custody and took her to the agency’s detective bureau to be questioned.

The wife was cooperating and provided a detailed and well-documented history of physical and psychological abuse.

Although she had not called law enforcement or had discussed the abuse with family or friends, she was able to provide enough corroborating evidence to back up her statements.

She said that he had beaten her and attempted to strangle her before she shot him.  She feared the years of abuse would culminate in her death.

The Sheriff’s Office said that the woman “displayed multiple physical injuries that corroborated her account” of a justifiable killing in self-defense.

The Sheriff’s office will forward their findings to the Jefferson Parish District Attorney’s office, which will decide whether to file criminal charges.



We post each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com  Please take a minute and share them with a friend.


6- E-mail, blog notes, and show close

John- intro

Listener e-mail discussion

Grant -This is from Matthew

Hey all,
Just wanted to ask if you can readdress “universal” background checks, and what exactly that means. Not just for me, but for other listeners. To me it sounds like a vague name the same way “gun violence”  is a vague term that infers one thing, but depending on whom is counting statistics, means something very different. Anyway, one other thing, Ohio allows face to face private sales, so there are some smaller gun sales at a local flea market that are done in that manner, not just a gun store who sets up a table and runs it like a satellite of their store. However, many of the major gun shows I’ve heard that is the case and they do background checks. That said, there are a great amount of buy/sell/trades that occur in the parking lot, which again, in ohio is legal. Wasn’t it proven that none of the mass shootings used “gun show loopholes”?  Also none of the mass-shooters were NRA members..
Love the show, keep up the good work!


Gary- This is from Carl

Listening to #473. Would Graham Grant talk about purchasing airguns and slingshots in New Jersey?  What happens in New Jersey, does not stay in New Jersey.

Also, have you seen the recent news where the mayor of Pittsburgh, PA wants to confiscate firearms?


As is aptly and logically pointed out in the article, his intentions will make his city more dangerous. When or if this happens he will not be held accountable. When will these fools stop their actions, and be more mindful of the safety of the citizens of the locations they represent?  My crystal ball is broken, so I do not know the answer to the question.



John – For Carl https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ieWrWLjii0

John: Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?


We can pass laws that makes us feel better, but what should we do when these feel-good laws get us and our children killed? We disarmed the staff at school.  We disarmed the flock and the shepherd at church, and we disarmed the designated defender at the bar. That didn’t turn out the way we wanted. The article is called ‘Feel-Good Laws are Getting Us Killed”

My articles are up at Clash Daily, at Ammoland and at my blog, slow facts dot wordpress dot com.  John, tell us what’s new at your blog no lawyers only guns and money.

John – I have two posts I want to highlight. You may remember Operation Fast and Furious where the ATF helped the Mexican drug cartels walk guns to Mexico in order to build support for gun control. The head of the Sinoloa cartel, Joaquin Guzman or El Chapo, is on trial in NY and wants to bring it up in his defense since one of the charges against him involves firearms.  The US government is objecting to it saying it would confuse jurors. Actually, it might raise questions they don’t want to answer. The other post that I want to highlight is the gun control wish list released by Giffords. It has everything from gun and mag bans to red flag laws to government money for so-called smart guns and then some. They have shown their hand so it is time to push your Republican senators about not caving.

That and more is at only guns and money dot blogspot dot com.

Facebook listeners group – PSP Listeners

John: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast.  I’d like to thank Charles Heller for joining us today. So for Amy, Tracy, Belle, Dana, Douglas, Gary, John, Rachel, Susan, Grant and Rob,

(Paul, stop talking now)

Rob: Until the next time…

Gary: stay safe,

Grant: be aware,

John: and we’ll see you down the road.