Episode 326 – Jason Christiansen, Billy Johnson, and Crayle Vanest

Full Episode Download: http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/326.mp3

Open and Personal News Segment: http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/326-1.mp3

News Segment 1: http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/326-2.mp3

News Segment 2: http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/326-3.mp3

Interview Segment 1: Billy Johnson: http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/326-4.mp3

Interview Segment 2: Crayle Vanest: http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/326-5.mp3

Interview Segment 3: Jason Christiansen: http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/326-6.mp3

DGU Segment: http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/326-7.mp3

Email and Show Close: http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/326-8.mp3



“An armed society is a polite society.. and this is the Polite Society Podcast where we support and report on civilian self-defense.”

Paul: Welcome to the polite society podcast presented by the Firearms Policy Coalition recorded Sunday April 19th, 2105, I’m Paul Lathrop

Rob: I’m Rob Morse and on tonights show we will talk with film maker Billy Johnson about his documentary called Protecting Liberty.

John: I’m John Richardson, and we’ll talk with Crayle Vanest of students for concealed carry.. and talk about another failure of a gun free zone on a college campus in my home state of North Carolina.

Gary: I’m Gary Daugherty and in one of our DGU’s a daughter takes her father’s advice and it likely saved her life.. so climb aboard.

Rob: strap in

John : and hang on!

Paul:  episode 326 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.

Show intro music.


Seg 1- Personal news from each participant


Rob- They advertise the NRA annual meeting as 9 acres of guns and gear.  That misses the point.  There are acres of experts waiting to meet to you.  I talked with Col. David Grossman, John Lott, Michael Bane, Anette Wachter, Rick Ector, Jim Clark, Joyce and Bill Wilson, Katie Pavlich, Cam Edwards, Tom Gresham, Mark Walters and his family, Julianne Versnal and Alan Gottlieb, David Jensen, Tatiana Whitlock, Laura Carno, Tim Schmidt, Billy and Rachel Johnson, Jim Curtis, Mike Vanderboegh, Dean Weingarten, David Cole and the bloggers.  I listened to Rob Pincus, but didn’t get to talk with him.


I added a customized sight to my Mosin-Nagant.  Then I sold a gun, bought a gun, and ordered a gun belt.


John-I’m not sure if I talked with as many people as Rob but I did talk with a lot. The NRA Annual Meeting was great for catching up with old friends as well as making new ones such as Richard Johnson of Guns Holsters and Gear.  Unfortunately there are too many old friends to mention or we’d never finish the show. I was invited to the rollout of the new Glock 43 and got to shoot it. It is a solid little gun that should sell well but should not be considered a beginner’s gun. I also attended the Annual Firearms Law Seminar which was time well spent. It gave me the idea to start a series of blog posts called Bad Apple Lawyers which is a play on the Brady Center’s Bad Apple Gun Dealer lawsuits. I think it is past time to call out the attorneys at “Big Law” who are donating their time pro bono to curtail our 2nd Amendment rights.


My only regret is that I didn’t get enough time on the show floor to see more of the gun collector displays. Those historical firearms tell a story and I didn’t get to hear all of it.


(Weekend shows only) I am going to insert a live promo about upcoming training classes in Sioux Falls here.


Bob Mayne/Ben Branam May 16th-17th www.Handgunworld.com to register


Kathy Jackson – August 15th-16th Susan@ad7.8f3.myftpupload.com


Chaz Murray asked me to let everyone know that he is having a class in Utah July 24th and 25th Rumor has it that one or more of the Gun Dudes might attend, or they might not.


Seg 2- News


-Maine Governor Paul LePage signed a law legalizing automatic opening knives. Freshman Representative Joel Stetkis helped pass the bill.  The new law takes effect 90 days after the legislature adjourns, so we can’t really give you a date at this point.  Automatic knives are now legal for civilians without restriction in 27 states, and legal with various restrictions in 10 more.


College’s Gun-Free Zone Failure

All the laws, policies, surveillance cameras, campus security, no-guns signs and gun-free zones failed to save a college employee’s life.


Ron Lane, a long-time employee at Wayne Community College in Goldsboro, North Carolina was shot and killed Monday morning. Armed with a rifle, a former student stalked the victim across the gun-free zone and finally cornered him in a campus bathroom. There, a single shot ended the employee’s life. The alleged killer escaped and was eventually captured on a beach in Florida.


School was in session at the time of the murder. A student reported that her teacher moved them to a corner of the classroom, turned off the lights, and barricaded the door with a table. Innocents cowering in the dark without any real protection is a chilling metaphor for what comes from the sheep-like reliance on gun-free zones.
We call on our bureaucratic managers to recognize that evil will not stop at the edge of a fantasy. Gun-free zones only ensure that the law-abiding will be helpless to resist the lawless. It’s a tragedy that people will die – have died –  because of that fiction.


John – This was a targeted attack. The killer, whose face and head are covered with Nazi and white supremacy tattoos, was not going to be deterred by mere signs.

Oregon Legislatures Pushing Gun Sale Background Check has Citizens Pushing Recall

Bloomberg’s billions are making gun-control inroads in the Oregon state legislature. A long delayed universal background check bill patterned after the Bloomberg inspired Colorado fiasco has passed the Oregon Senate. Just like in Colorado, this initiative has riled the populace. Just like in Colorado, certain legislatures are feeling the hot breath of recalls.

Three petitions for recall have been filed against the anti-gun bill’s cosponsors and the Democrat leader of the Oregon House, who expects to move the bill quickly though her chamber. The petitions are not restricted to gun rights complaints, but encompass other issues such as education funding. Other recall petitions are surely possible. Sufficient signatures must be collected before a special election is called.

Like Colorado, the recall efforts come from grass-root sources. The two small organizations are aware of each other, but only connected informally. There is the possibility of funding from gun-rights organizations.

Although these efforts are in their infancy, they are following the same unlikely peoples protest that occurred in Colorado. We wish them the incredible success of Colorado.


Also in Oregon (and thanks to listener Anthony L. for emailing us the story)

At least one sheriff doesn’t plan on enforcing the background checks if the proposed measure that passed the senate does indeed become law. Sheriff Dave Daniel, from Josephine County has stated that “I can’t enforce that law, so therefore it won’t be enforced,” He continued, “I have felonies going on daily in Josephine County. That’s my priorities.”


If it becomes law SB941 would require background checks for all firearms sales, including private sales. It would make a sale without a background check a class b misdemeanor.


Our Old Friend Dudley Brown is at It Again.


Speaking of Colorado, it appears our old friend Dudley Brown is at work again. Brown, who heads both NAGR and Rocky Mtn Gun Owners, wants the Colorado magazine size limit repealed, all or nothing. There was a move that many Democrats could support that would raise the size of the mag limit to 30 rounds. In other words, virtually all standard capacity handgun magazines and 99% of AR mags would become legal again. However, anything other than a complete repeal wasn’t good enough for Dudley and any compromise which would have helped Colorado gun owners went down the tubes. To make matters worse, Dudley has promised primary challenges to 5 Republicans who voted to abide by House rules after a House committee rejected the Senate bill that would have lifted the ban. The Colorado Springs Gazette notes in an editorial regarding Brown and RMGO that they are, “notorious for launching primary challenges against pro-gun conservatives, replacing them with ineffective activists who reject incremental victories and the art of compromise.”


John – Incrementalism or taking what you can get this time is how the gun banners have achieved so much over time. We in the gun rights movement are stupid if we don’t learn that lesson. In military terms, full frontal attacks rarely succeed unlike flanking attacks.




NICS Mentally Defective List Is 99.3% Vets


Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa), chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, is asking Attorney General Eric Holder to explain the content of the NICS mentally defective list. Specifically, he wants to know why the list consists primarily of veterans and their families. The Congressional Research Service estimates that 99.3% of all names submitted to the NICS System’s mentally defective category come from the Veterans Administration even though all Fed agencies can submit names. Grassley wants to know the review process used to ensure that these names were properly put on the list as they have been singled out for deprivation of the Second Amendment rights. Grassley goes on to say “VA reports individuals to the gun ban list if an individual merely needs financial assistance managing VA benefits. Although the VA process is not designed to regulate firearm ownership, it results in veterans and their loved ones being barred from exercising their fundamental, Constitutionally-guaranteed Second Amendment rights.”


Police Officer Denied Medical Treatment


In what can only be considered a case of extreme hoplophobia,  Plymouth, Ohio police officer Wayne Liggett was denied treatment at the Walk In Urgent Care Center in Mansfield because, get this, he was carrying his firearm. The Center is posted against concealed carry but Ohio law exempts police officers from these prohibitions. Officer Liggett had sought treatment for his eye because he was seeing floaters and flashes. Instead of treating Officer Liggett, the urgent care center called the Mansfield Police Department who told him to come out of the treatment room with his hands up and then handcuffed him. After confirming Officer Liggett was indeed a police officer they returned his weapon. However, he was still denied treatment and escorted from the building. His eye condition was later diagnosed a retinal tear for which he has had two surgeries. This whole incident has Plymouth PD Chief Charles Doan very concerned saying, “”Officers carry to be prepared, and citizens do too. If you have a concealed carry and get hurt, are they going to say, ‘Get him out of here?’ ”

Magpul does it right!


At SHOT Show this year Magpul industries announced that they were starting to ship magazines for the glock 17 9mm. The mags received good reviews and left many gun owners wondering when they would be available for the .40 and .45.


This week Magpul released a statement titled “OK we screwed up.”


There seem to be issues with the new mags feeding into Glock 19’s and 26’s. Magpul not only immediately let the problem be known, they found a fix and started production on the fix immediately. They are going to replace the magazine body of every one sold so far. They expect new magazine bodies to be shipped May 5th. That is customer service and integrity. Remington are you paying attention?


Wal-Mart wins against an anti rights church


On Tuesday a federal appeals court issued a ruling that Wal-Mart can continue selling firearms and ammunition. This after a small church in New York filed suit trying to force the retailer to stop selling firearms that can accept a magazine that holds more than 10 rounds. The church had bought a few thousand shares of Wal-Mart stock went to court to try to force more oversight and make it harder for Wal-Mart to sell the guns. It should be noted that although buying a few thousand shares sounds impressive, the church actually owned less than one one hundredth of 1 percent of the company.


Gun Quotes

If you think a federal universal background check is going to keep criminals from buying guns from each other, then I’d like to know why it hasn’t prevented them from buying drugs from each other? Sean Davis writing at The Federalist


Hang on everybody, we’ll be back with our interview segment.

advertisement Concealment Solutions

Segment 3 Interviews

Billy Johnson and his documentary project called Protecting Liberty.

Crayle Vanest of students for concealed carry foundation.

Jason Christiansen of Concealment Solutions.


Segment 4 DGUs

Rob- I donated to both Billy Johnson’s kickstarter campaign.. and to students for concealed carry foundation.  Come to think of it, I’ve donated to Jason Christiansen too.


Daughter Actually Listens to Father – Possibly Saving Her Life

“Honestly, I mostly carry it because my dad wanted me to. Now I’m glad I listened.”

The unlikely decision to listen may have saved a young Indianapolis, Indiana woman from injury or worse. Crystal was on her way home from a grocery store late Friday night when she was surprised by three men. ‘Shut up, be quiet, don’t say anything’ and the one here had a weapon,” said the victim. When one man made a grab for her, she started shooting, hitting one and forcing them all to flee. Police later arrested an 18 year-old with a gunshot wound to the shoulder. They’re still looking for the other two. Police found items in the suspects’ SUV from an apartment take-over robbery earlier that night. In that crime, the suspects pistol-whipped a defenseless woman.


Crystal has some advice for women: “Learn how to protect yourself if you don’t know how. Be more aware. I wasn’t paying attention to my surroundings at all.”

I wonder if her father would share some secrets on getting a woman to listen?

Man Defends His Three Children From a Crazy in WalMart

A man used his licensed CCW to defend himself and his three children from an unprovoked attack in a Yakima, Washington WalMart.

Security video shows a 30 year-old transient suspect picking up an aluminum bat and striking the victim on the shoulder. No words had been exchanged between the two, they did not know each other; the attack was completely at random. Compounding the danger, the victim’s three children were within easy striking distance.

Faced with a potentially deadly situation, the victim drew his .357 SIG pistol. Store security heard a man in the sporting goods department shouting “Get on the ground!” and found one man pointing a pistol at another — who was indeed on the ground. Police arrived minutes later to arrest the proned-out assailant, who remains in jail on a $30,000 bond.

We certainly applaud the CCW holder for his foresight and his measured, textbook response to this desperate situation.

Phoenix Man Shoots Assailant Pistol Whipping Him

In a textbook Failure in the Victim Selection Process, as defined by Massad Ayoob, a 22 year-old thug was shot by the man he was pistol-whipping.


Early Sunday morning, three men were walking across a Phoenix bridge when a stranger approached, pulled a handgun, and pistol-whipped one of them. The victim pulled his own handgun and fired several shots, striking the assailant at least once. The alleged criminal expired at the scene.

The investigation is still on-going, but it seems to be a case of justifiable self-defense.

Home Invasion Crime Spree Ended By Homeowner With a Gun

A string of violent home invasions was ended by a homeowner with a gun.

Two men went on a home-invasion crime spree in Madison, Wisconsin Friday morning. Their string of crimes included armed breaking and entering into three homes and an assault on a 90 year old woman. It ended with a struggle and a shot fired.


Police were too late to help the first two residents. However, an armed citizen made all the difference in the third. At 10 in the morning, 911 received a panicked phone call from a woman locked in her bathroom. She had heard the sounds of a break-in and her husband had gone to investigate. Invader and homeowner struggled and a shot was fired. The criminal dropped his weapon and was detained at gunpoint by the husband. The robber’s accomplice fled, but was nabbed before the getaway car got too far.

We applaud the bravery of the homeowner. His actions successfully protected his wife and stopped a string of armed home-invasions – which could have very well lead to additional injuries or even deaths.


However, we need to point out that most self-defense instructors would recommend – if possible – holing up armed in a safe area and forcing the criminals to come to them. All the homeowner’s possessions aren’t worth their lives. The cops will get there — eventually.

Home Invasion, Robbery, Kidnapping and Rape Ended by Neighbor’s Shot

If you don’t have a gun – it’s best to know somebody with a gun.


Early this past Sunday morning, three violent criminals splintered the front door of a sleeping Gadsden, Alabama woman. Looting the house wasn’t enough for one thug, he put a gun to the woman’s head and viciously raped her. Even that wasn’t enough, he continued to beat her while demanding all of her money. The desperate woman concocted a story that a neighbor down the street had the money.


The invader dragged the woman to the neighbor’s door at gunpoint. She pounded and pleaded for the unknowing man to give her the money, telling him that she was being threatened. The neighbor saw the gun and punched in 911. However, the thug didn’t give the cops the time to arrive. He yelled for the neighbor to hang up, punctuating his demands with two shots, and then aimed his gun at the 59 year-old man. That man was armed.

The neighbor’s single shot hit the rapist in the chest. The thug ran a short way, then collapsed in a heap and died.

The woman was taken to the hospital, the neighbor to police headquarters, the thug to the morgue. It was found that the dead criminal had packed a lot of violence into his 17 years. Police have not released the dead man’s name or a description of his two accomplices. The Etowah County DA’s office said they are reviewing the case to determine if any charges will be filed against the good samaritan. At this time the investigation is ongoing.


Stay aware, stay capable, stay safe out there — it’s a dangerous world.




We post each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com  Please take a minute and share them with a friend.



Segment 5 Show close


Listener e-mail discussion


Email # 1


Hi All,

I don’t think listener Ken in Phoenix can equate the “gun show loop hole” with “selling guns to felons”.  Closing the “loop hole” does not ensure felons will not be able to buy firearms.  Closing the “loop hole” does ensure additional fees, time, and steps to registration for the law abiding.  The only dangerous sales that are “closed” at that point are the very rare number of private sales by law abiding sellers to someone without personally knowing the buyer or checking their CHL.  Those could be eliminated by encouraging, (not requiring) those the law would realistically effect to ensure the buyer is a not a felon.  What if we opened up the NICS check to private individuals to have the option (not requirement) to check on the background of a potential buyer, WITHOUT having to fill out a 4473?

BG check to registration is a far leap, I will give Ken that, but they are not 2 separate things . Currently there is a buyers name DOB and birth city, tied with an approval number; written on a 4473; that also contains make model and SN of a firearm and an address where that firearm could be found.  It’s a big leap but it is feasible to use that as a defacto registration.

One final point.  No tin hats here. I don’t believe Feinstein is gonna come a knockin’ across the country , “Mr. and Mrs. America turn them all in”. VERY unlikely.  What is likely and is happening with more regularity is when someone says “That Paul guy and his wife Susan are hot heads, the only proof of that is my opinion. They can be disarmed of every firearm they have bought on a 4473 if tell the state my opinion”.

Dan from Philly


Email #2


I just thought I’d write in about the discussion you had on background checks and the “gun show loophole” prompted by the listener e-mail.


I understand the confusion about the loophole the listener expressed, and you are correct – It is already illegal to knowingly sell a gun to a felon.  The issue is that it’s difficult if not impossible to know who is and is not a felon when you’re exchanging e-mails on a local listings site or chatting with someone at the range.  Dealing only with those with CCW permits greatly reduces your potential buyer pool, so most transactions don’t take place with that kind of restriction, in my experience.


I share your fear of a de-facto gun registry, but what if instead we just had a registry of who is NOT allowed to own guns?.  Everyone else, gun owners, anti-gunners, and every schmo on the street who hasn’t even thought of buying a gun would have the same mark on their license or other ID, and only those who were specifically prohibited from owning guns would have an identifying mark.  After all, felony convictions are public record, and there’s no right to privacy on those that I’m aware of.  This proposal would basically just take what is public record and make it more easily accessible to people on the street.  In return for this concession, I would expect universal CCW reciprocity and a loosening of the restrictions on NFA items like suppressors and short barreled firearms.


You could of course still have people cheating the system with fake ID’s, but even now people can cheat the system the same way by stealing an ID of someone else and lying on the 4473 form, or even faking a CCW permit to get out of the background check entirely (in some states).


Thanks, and keep on truckin’

-Jake from Iowa


Rob- I want to comment on a discussion you had last week.  Ken wrote in and said-

“A private sale, be it at a gun show or in my back yard, without a background check, is a loophole in selling firearms, since background checks are required by licensed retailers but not by private individuals. When I say I am for closing the “gun show loophole”, I want to make sure guns aren’t being sold to felons.”


Ken, I have to criticize you, not for your intentions, but for your methods.  What you propose doesn’t work.  We know it doesn’t work.  You said “I want to pass a law that criminals will obey.. and if it doesn’t work, I’ll pass another law.”  No amount of firearms prohibition has been effective in disarming criminals.  You have disarmed honest men and women.  You’ve also enabled anti-rights politicians who claim their unending stream of prohibitions might “save one life” somewhere someday.  Ken, I know you are thoughtful, so I’d like you to find a firearms regulation that has shown to be both effective and the least intrusive means to achieve the claimed result.

Paul, I want to argue with you.  You complain about a background check where a federal registry is possible.. and you’re ok using a concealed carry permit where a federal registry is a certainty.


Paul- Send us a note if you’ve promoted the right of self-defense.  We’ll give you a shout out on the podcast.


Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?

I met amazing women at the NRA show.. and the media largely ignores them.  We have brilliant and beautiful advocates for the right of self-defense.  That article is posted on Ammoland Clash Daily, and on my blog at Slowfacts.wordpress.com.


John what is new on your blog, No Lawyers, Only Guns and Money?


John – I’d like to point out a case before the California Supreme Court. I learned of it from Brandon Combs of the Firearms Policy Coalition. California AG Kamala Harris is trying to say that an opened Swiss Army knife is the legal equivalent of a dirk or dagger. Knife Rights and the Second Amendment Foundation have filed a shared amicus brief in the case. Even if we don’t like the defendant, knives are tools and that principle needs to be defended.


We would like to thank Charlie Foxtrot for writing up show notes for us. Even though you don’t hear him on the air he is a big part of what you get to hear.  http://notonemoregunlaw.blogspot.com/


Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast.  I’d like to thank Billy Johnson and Crayle Vanest for coming on the show today.  co-hosts, will you be with us next time?  I’m looking forward to it.  Until the next time…

Gary: stay safe,

Rob: be aware,

John: and we’ll see you down the road.


Mention advertisers, Concealment Solutions, Crusader Weaponry and NJ2AS. Firearm Safety Institute


(after show close) How could we have made this episode better?


(DO NOT READ)Look at the shooters club by Bob Mayne and Ben Branam.  For $75.00 a year, $6.25 a month, you get 24/7 access to some fantastic training and audio podcasts that you can’t get anywhere else.  Subscribing from the link in our show notes helps Bob and Ben as well as helps us here at the Polite Society Podcast.


(DO NOT READ)Join your local civil rights group like the New Jersey Second Amendment Society, Arizona Citizens Defense League, Gun Owners of California, Commonwealth Second Amendment,  Connecticut Citizens Defense League, Florida Carry, Georgia Carry, Georgia Gun Owners, Grass Roots North Carolina, Illinois Carry, Maryland Shall Issue,  Michigan Gun Owners , Michigan Open Carry, and  Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners.


There are Minnesota Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance,  Nebraska Firearms Owners Association,   Citizens for a Safer New Jersey, New York State Rifle & Pistol Association,  Palmetto Concealed Carry, Open Carry Texas, Texas Firearms Freedom, Texas State Rifle Association. Tennessee Firearms Association, Virginia Citizens Defense League, Virginia Open Carry,  West Virginia Citizens Defense League, wisconsingunowners.org, and Wyoming Gun Owners.


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(DO NOT READ)The Polite Society download app is out on Amazon for Android and the I-phone app is in I-tunes and it is called Podcast Box.  They are located by our old name, Politics and guns.  Hot links are in our show notes.