Episode 312 – Alexander Roubian, Richard Smith, Dean Weingarten, Sandra Muldoon and Shari Spivack

Full Episode Download: http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/312.mp3

Individual show segments

Segment 1:  Rob and Rachel open the show and talk about what has been happening with them since the last episode.  http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/312.1.mp3

Segment 2: News segment 1. Anti-Gun activists caught with guns where they shouldn’t have them. Interview with Dean Weingarten, are concealed permit holders really more law abiding than police?  http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/312.2.mp3

Segment 3: News segment 2. Stepehen Josey gets an appeal. ATF says it doesn’t need to file the changes ban of popular rifle ammo to the federal register. Legislation to pass more restrictions in Vermont hits a snag. Texas Governor lists open carry as a priority. Campus carry issues. Gun Quote.  http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/312.3.mp3

Segment 4: Interview with Alexander Rubian, President of NJ2AS http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/312.4.mp3

Segment 5: Interview with Richard Smith of the Second Amendment Foundation Training Division.  http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/312.5.mp3

Segment 6: Interview with Sandra Muldoon and Shari Spivack http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/312.6.mp3

Segment 7: DGUs and show close http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/312.7.mp3


“An armed society is a polite society.. and this is the Polite Society Podcast where we support and report on civilian self-defense.”

Rachel: Welcome to the polite society podcast presented by the Firearms Policy Coalition recorded live on Wednesday, February 18th, 2015. I’m Rachel Malone.
Rob: I’m Rob Morse, and we’ll talk with Alexander Roubian of NJ2AS, and Richard Smith from the SAF training division, and Dean Weingarten from the Gun Watch blog.
Rachel-  and we’ll also talk with Sandra Muldoon and Shari Spivack of Second Amendment Women.
Rob- did I tell you about anti-gun celebrities being caught illegally carrying handguns?  We have that and a lot more,
Rachel- so climb aboard
Rob- strap in
Rachel- and hang on! Episode 312 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.
Show intro music.

Seg 1- Personal news from each participant

Rob- lead in  This is the personal news segment of the polite society podcast.  John is off supervising the birth of a grandchild, so we have Rachel and I to hold down the podcast today.  Rachel, How is your gun world? Have you caught up on sleep after living in the Texas Senate building last week?

Rachel- I have caught up on sleep…just in time for the start of Jordan’s spring football. 😉 It’s all good. Nothing strictly with guns this past week…I need to change that…but if you can expand that to general preparedness, I do have news. Jordan and I are setting up a home gym and I found a bunch of great stuff off of Craigslist. Very excited about that.

As a follow-up to last week’s committee hearing – the witness list was posted today. I’ve been looking forward to perusing it and learning what I can. Here’s what we’ve found after a quick reading this afternoon:
77% of those “against” came from Austin, TX; 23% came from elsewhere.
21% of those “for” or “on” came from Austin, TX; 79% came from elsewhere.
78% of those “against” only dropped a registration card.
35% of those “for” or “on” only dropped a registration card.

Rob- The local city planning commission is using lame excuses to refuse a gun range the building permits it needs.  I spoke about it at a local political meeting and asked the audience to go to the planning commission meeting  that is happening right now.  They reminded me of the ATF.  The ATF said cheap 223 ammunition has no sporting purpose.  Scuse me?  What else are you going to do with cheap ammo but shoot it for sport?  The local planning commission said the range was not for recreation.  What they meant to say is we don’t like your kind around here.


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Seg 2- News

Rachel gives us the news

-David Malik is a leading civil rights attorney in Cleveland, Ohio.  He also doesn’t want you owning guns.  Mister Malik was arrested over the weekend at Cleveland Hopkins Airport.   Malik had a concealed handgun in his carry-on bag.  David Malik is the original attorney for the family of 12-year-old Tamir Rice who was slain by police in November.  Attorney Malik spent the night in jail after a .22 caliber handgun and a box of ammunition were discovered in his luggage by airport security.

It is common for anti-gun celebrities to carry firearms.  Dwayne Ferguson was a community activist and a vocal supporter of the New York SAFE act.. until he was arrested for illegally bringing a pistol onto school grounds in Buffalo, New York.

Illinois state senator Donne Trotter was charged with a felony for bringing a loaded handgun through the security checkpoint at O’Hare airport.  Democrat Trotter was running to replace Jesse Jackson Jr. in Congress at the time.  This happened before the courts brought concealed carry to Illinois.  Trotter routinely voted to kill concealed carry bills in the Illinois Senate.

More serious was the example set by California State Senator Leland Yee.  Senator Yee both proposed and supported strict gun control.. for California citizens.  That was before his arrest on political corruption, racketeering and gun trafficking charges.  Yee wanted to sell rocket propelled grenades to criminals.

Retired Chicago Alderman Richard Mell is the father-in-law of disgraced former governor and felon Rod Blagojevich.  Alderman Mell helped craft Chicago’s old ban on handguns.  Alderman Mell also used his political connections to rewrite the registration law and create an “amnesty” period after he’d neglected to do the paperwork needed to keep his firearms.

And the late Frank Melton, former mayor of Jackson, Miss., routinely violated “gun laws” .. the same laws he demanded everyone else to obey.

There is a troubling double standard in the case of Democrat Texas State Sen. Juan “Chuy” Hinojosa.  The senator brought his own gun into an airport security area.. and didn’t even have to stand for arraignment.

Rob- Michael Moore’s bodyguard was charged for carrying a gun in a gun free zone.  Last week, the Bloomberg group Moms demand action for gun safety hired armed bodyguards, and used the armed guards to push around unarmed civilians when they testified at the Texas capital.  There are rules for us, and special rules for gun-control spokesmen and politicians.

Rachel-You remember what firearms instructor Bob Main says.  “I carry a gun because I can’t carry a cop.”  Even if we could have a policeman at our shoulder, we might want to leave them at the police station.  We’ve all seen the social media posts about police using unnecessary force.  Partial data indicates that police are convicted of firearms violations much more often than concealed carry holders.  We don’t have the complete data across the US for concealed carry holders, but the data we have for Florida says that the police were over 20 times more likely to be charged with a firearms violation than civilians.

Rob- Some factors explain the high rate of violations by law enforcement.  Each policeman sees more violent incidents than the average civilian.  Also, a civilian will often bring charges against an officer if the officer misuses a gun.  The concealed carry holder knows who belongs in his living room in the middle of the night.. and the policeman doesn’t.

There are other factors that work against the concealed carry holder.  Each criminal on the street will assault many civilians before the criminal is finally arrested by a policeman.   Also, many  jurisdictions ignore behavior by police where that same behavior by a civilian would result in prosecution.

Rob- we have dean Dean Weingarten here to make sense of this subject. Gun Watch blog, and it has a lot of news.  “For the data that we have, police appear to be three times as likely to commit murder as a concealed carry permit holder.”  Dean interview.

Dean Weingarten, welcome.
How did you get interested in this subject.
I’ve been an instructor for 40 years.  My students are extraordinarily responsible.
How do concealed carry holders compare to law enforcement officers.
Who records when an officer is arrested?
Not the FBI.  The FBI doesn’t even collect the justifiable homicides.
Domestic violence by police is closely tracked.
Who did you compare.
What did you find.
Police are 1.4/100k vs Florida is a third of that number.
police 4-5 times more likely than CCW
CCW 9 times more law abiding than general public.
news 2

Rachel- Frequent listeners should remember hearing the young man from New Jersey.  Steffon Josey asked for an appeal, and an appeal was granted.  He and Evan Nappen will be in court soon!   They will have a date will be released in a few days. This poor kid needs some cash to earn his freedom.  Please donate to his go-fund-me account.  Throw in something even if it is only $5.

-The ATF claimed it does not need to publish its new rules in the Federal Register as it re-interprets the meaning of “armor piercing ammunition to outlaw surplus 223 ammo.  The ATF claims the reinterpretation is exempt from the Federal Administrative Procedures Act.  President Obama claimed the same thing when he re-wrote immigration law with his phone and his pen.

-Legislation to require more background checks on gun sales in Vermont has hit a major snag. Anti-rights advocates lobbied lawmakers to require background checks for sales of firearms at gun shows and over the internet. The legislation even made it into committee.  Senator Dick Sears of Bennington is the chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee.  Senator Sears said quote “I don’t believe the background check portion of the bill has the votes to pass out of –committee.” close quote.  Most legislators do their homework and count votes before they propose legislation.

Moms Demand Action has been caught lying…again. Only this time, the untruth occurred in a committee hearing of the Texas Senate. Kelly Burke is the president of the Texas MDA chapter. While testifying against the open carry and campus carry bills last week, Ms. Burke claimed, (quote) “we do not know, about how, quote, responsible CHL holders are, because that data set is not available and is completely locked down. Any statements about how, quote, responsible and law-abiding CHL holders are is completely anecdotal and therefore conjecture.” (close quote) If she’d only searched Google, she could have easily found this data. It’s public record and is made available by the TXDPS.

-Texas open carry activists were rewarded again this week for their diligent efforts. Texas Governor Greg Abbott delivered a “state of the state” address Tuesday morning in which he laid out his top priorities for the state. Open carry made the cut. Abbott stated, (quote) “Let me briefly follow up on a word I mentioned a moment ago — liberty. In a single word, it encapsulates what this country stands for, what Texas symbolizes. I will expand liberty in Texas by signing a law that makes Texas the 45th state to allow open carry.” (close quote)

-Here are two conflicting ideas.  Some studies report high rates of sexual assault.   Women’s advocates say women are at great risk on college campuses.  Contrast that claim with the fact that many college administrators want to deny women the right to carry concealed on campus.  These administrators ignore that concealed carry holders are usually 21 years of age or older.  Concealed carry holders already have a license to carry across the state, but must disarm on campus.  In this age of diversity, the student body is more diverse than ever.  We already have returning veterans and delayed entry students on campus.  College students are not the drunken idiots shown in animal house.  They never were.  Students make adult decisions without parental supervision.  Lawmakers in 10 states are pushing bills that would permit the carrying of firearms on campus.  They hope the national spotlight on sexual assault will help them win passage of their measures.  Quote “If you’ve got a person that’s raped because you wouldn’t let them carry a firearm to defend themselves, I think you’re responsible,” State Representative Dennis K. Baxley of Florida said during debate in a House subcommittee last month. The bill passed out of committee.

Bills that would allow guns on campus have been introduced in Indiana, Montana, Oklahoma, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas,  Florida and Nevada and Wyoming.

Rob-  I have the gun quote today, and this is one might surprise you.  “Fighting corruption is not just good governance. It’s self-defense. It’s patriotism.”  That was from vice president Joe Biden.  I wonder if he meant the New York SAFE act and San Antonio knife laws when he talked about government corruption.  Hang on everybody we have our interview segment next.


New Jersey Second Amendment Society- Alexander Roubian
You’ve had meetings up and down new Jersey- how were they attended?
Do you have accounts set up for the next gun owner attacked by NJ gun laws?
Christie said he doesn’t want to meet with NJ2AS.
Carry outside the home.
Clarify self-defense as justifiable need.
Stop local jurisdictions from adding additional requirement to apply for
Clarify reasonable deviation so we can go to the bathroom.

Second Amendment Women- Sandi and Shari

Your club.
Women’s education
Training and competition
Kids safety/firearms in the home.
Kids day at the range.
What do you have planned?
How can people reach you?  http://sawshootingclub.com/

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SAF training division- Richard Smith
Why a separate training organization from NRA or US CCA?
What is the focus of the training? Self-defense. (not hunting or sporting uses)
What do you offer the prospective instructor?
Tom Givins director of training
Attend instructor seminars.
Continuing education requirements.
What do you offer the prospective student?
What is your timeline?
First course at the end of march.
Develop new courses for the next year and a half.  Testing curriculum.
Where do people find you?

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Segment 4 DGUs

Rob- A man’s dog woke him up just at sunrise in Edmond Oklahoma.  Then the 46 year old homeowner heard someone beating on his front door.  The masked intruder smashed his way in carrying a baseball bat.  He hit the homeowner in the hand.  The homeowner ran to his kitchen and grabbed his handgun.  He shot the intruder in the face, neck and arm.  The intruder then ran across the street to his girlfriend’s apartment. She called 911, to get him medical attention.  The burglar is expected to survive.

The intruder was the homeowners former step-son.  The step-son is charged with first-degree burglary and assault with a dangerous weapon.

Rachel- Does a woman home alone stand a chance against four home intruders? She does if she has a gun. An Alabama woman refused entrance to a group of four who knocked on her door and asked to use her phone Monday afternoon. They left, but returned later that night. They forced their way inside. The homeowner pulled out her gun and fired. One invader, Richard Taylor, died of multiple gunshot wounds. The three accomplices survived, but are now being charged with Taylor’s murder. The homeowner is not expected to face charges.

We post each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com  Please take a minute and share them with a friend.

Listener e-mail discussion
Rob This note came from Ken in Arizona.  He said
This quote from Mahatma Gandhi struck me as one that’s appropriate for our gun rights.  Quote “First they ignore you. Then, they laugh at you. Then, they fight you. Then, you win.”  Close quote
Ken continues- They are currently fighting us with everything they have. We are only one step away from winning!

Thanks Ken.

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Rachel: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast.  I’d like to thank our guests for joining us. We talked with Alexander Rubian from the New Jersey Second amendment society, Richard Smith from the SAF training division, Dean Weingarten from the Gun Watch blog, and Sandra Muldoon and Shari Spivack of Second Amendment Women. Rob, will you be with us this weekend? I’m looking forward to it.  Until the next time…
Rob: stay safe,
Rachel: be aware,
Rob: and we’ll see you down the road.

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