Episode 310 – Steffon Lamont Josey, Tatiana Whitlock, and Laura Carno

Each of our segments can now be downloaded and shared individually!

Personal news segment. The hosts talk about what is going on with them. http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/310.1.mp3 

News segment 1. An Antioch, California pizza delivery driver is raped and robbed. More on Washington DC’s lack of issuing permits. Part of the 1968 Gun Control Act is struck down, and a New Jersey teenager is murdered shortly after filming an anti violence video. http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/310.2.mp3

Interview segment with  Steffon Lamont Joseyhttp://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/310.3.mp3

News Segment 2, a Texas homeowner isn’t charged after a no knock raid results in the death of an officer.  http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/310.4.mp3

Interview Segment 2 Tatiana Whitlock on kids and guns. http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/310.5.mp3

Rachel and Paul talk Texas senate gun bills.  http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/310.6.mp3

News segment 3. Laura Carno discusses developments in Colorado, pro gun bills die in New York, mayors are leaving Mayors Against Illegal Guns, women in Florida are getting carry permits, and a bill in California would make it a crime to mis-report someone on the new mental health restraining order law.  http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/310.7.mp3

DGU segment. http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/310.8.mp3

Email and show close segment. http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/310.8.mp3


John: Welcome to the polite society podcast presented by the Firearms Policy Coalition. We’re recording on Wednesday, February 11th, 2015.  I’m John Richardson.
Rob: I’m Rob Morse and I’ll interview Tatiana Whitlock about her new video called Kids and Guns.
John: I’ll interview Steffon Josey-Davis on his prosecution for having a gun in New Jersey.
Rob: We have a remote interview from Rachel Malone as she reports on campus carry, open carry, and constitutional carry in the Texas Senate.
John: and we also have some comments from Laura Carno telling us about the rally for self-defense in Denver..
Laura- comments?  Comments!?  I can speak from myself, John.  I’m Laura Carno of “I am created equal”, and I’ll tell you all about firearms legislation in Colorado.  We also have our weekly self-defense news and stories of defensive gun use,
so climb aboard.
Rob: strap in
John: and hang on! Because episode 310 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.

Show intro music.

Seg 1- Personal news from each participant

Rob- Welcome to the polite society podcast presented by the Firearms Policy Coalition. Rachel Malone is usually with us for the midweek show.  This week she is busy wrangling the Texas senate.  She promised us a report.

We have Laura Carno back with us.  You know Laura from her from I Am Created Equal.com from LauraCarno.com, from hearing her on radio interviews and watching her youtube channel.  You might also have seen her 30 foot tall picture on banners at the NRA convention.  Laura, welcome, back to the polite society podcast.  What’s new in your gun world?

Laura’s gun news- I was in denver covering gun legislation.  We’ll talk about that in the news.  I spoke on many radio stations about the progress of gun legislation in CO and some other non-gun topics. Always something to pay attention to here in CO.
Rob- I missed the show last Sunday because I had a private tour at a fantastic firearms museum.  I held a sword owned by President George Washington and an Austrian air rifle of the kind carried by Lewis and Clark.
Back to the here and now, I shot IDPA at a new range.  This was the first time this range invited an IDPA competition under their roof.  Have you noticed that some indoor ranges have dark areas?  A close target might be brightly lit, and a distant target might be well lit, but there are some dark bands in between.  We used those dark bands on the range to create low light stages.  That was great training.   It took us 3 hours to shoot the six stages, but each stage is over in seconds.  I was under 9 seconds for the el Presidente stage.  One stage had 9 shots on three targets in 4.7 seconds.  That is an average performance, neither fast nor slow.
I also spoke before San Diego Board of Supervisors.  The Republican county chairman used part of my speech when he had his county meeting.  A friend and I are rooming together at Nashville for the NRA convention.  How about you, John?
John- I have been dry-firing my new Ruger LC9s Pro. It really has a nice trigger for a production gun. I’m still waiting on my Kydex holster to arrive. I will need to order some additional magazines to go with it and I think I want a green fiber optic front sight. Old eyes, you know. Other than that, we are still on grandbaby watch. Olivia Grace should arrive within the next two weeks.

Rob- that wraps up the personal news segment and we’ll be back with the news after this break.
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Seg 2- News

1Laura- Welcome to the polite society podcast presented by the Firearms Policy Coalition. You know the dangers of gun-free zones.  In this case, a domino’s pizza driver delivered to a house in Antioch, California.  After she made the delivery, the 22 year old female delivery driver was held at gunpoint by a 17 year old male and forced back into her car.  She was forced to drive to another location where she was raped and robbed.  Police have the suspect in custody.

Antioch, California is in Contra Costa county.  Contra Costa County Sheriff David Livingston has a “may issue” attitude towards concealed carry licenses.  That means the sheriff would usually deny the delivery driver her request for a permit.  She would be denied a permit even though being a delivery driver is the 8th most dangerous profession in America.  Domino’s also has a no-guns policy.

The Sheriff failed to protect her, and the company failed to protect her.  Both the sheriff and Dominos also denied her the opportunity to protect herself.

Comment- I know lots of people who took a delivery job when they were in school or as a second job.  Now we’re telling them that delivery jobs are only for men?
Comment- That is a war on women.
Comment-  We have marches called “take back the night” where we protest for women’s safety.  Where are the protests against the sheriff and the employer who disarmed this young driver.
Comment- Sure we have the right of self-defense here in California.. in theory, but not in practice.

2Laura- “In theory, but not in practice” is a good description of your concealed carry rights in Washington, DC.  Only a fraction of one percent of DC citizens can receive a license to carry concealed.  That is why the Second Amendment Foundation brought their latest lawsuit.  SAF president Alan Gottlieb said he could only find evidence of eight permits being issued by the District of Columbia. The overwhelming majority of applicants are denied for no reason other than that the district did not want to issue them a permit.

Gottlieb said quote “The city’s requirements to obtain a carry permit are so restrictive as to be prohibitive to virtually all applicants. It’s.. a ‘Catch 22,’ in which you can apply all day long, but no reason is sufficiently good enough for (DC Police) Chief Lanier to issue a permit.  The city has set the bar so high that it relegates a fundamental civil right to the status of a heavily-regulated government privilege.”  Close quote.

That is morally wrong and probably illegal.  A federal judge said the previous ban on carrying handguns in DC was illegal, and DC has effectively perpetuated that same ban.

Comment- Now we have two reasons to call Miko Tempski
Comment- Two reasons?
Comment- Miko is the chief legal counsel at the Second Amendment Foundation, and he is also the spokesman for their training division.

3- This news was sent in by listener Chris Gillespie.  A Federal Court in Texas just invalidated part of the Gun Control Act of 1968 on Second Amendment grounds. Judge Reed O’Connor said that the prohibition against interstate sale of handguns where the purchaser both buys and receives his or her handgun in a non-resident state is unconstitutional. Moreover, the judge applied strict scrutiny and said the law would fail even if he had applied intermediate scrutiny. The judge said that with the NICS system in place there is no reason handgun sales should be banned when long gun sales are permitted. This is another great win for Alan Gura. Incidentally, the lead plaintiff, Rick Mance, is a fellow gun blogger who blogs at Traction Control.

4-New Jersey is a dangerous place.  A teenager from Newark was shot dead only months after participating in an anti-violence video. Three towns in New Jersey are in the 100 most dangerous cities in America   In fact, two New Jersey towns are in the top ten among cities with a population of 25,000 people or more.  The list compares cities for their combined rate of murder, rape, aggravated assault and armed robbery.  New Jersey is number one!  Camden was at the top of the list as the most dangerous city.  You remember Camden.. where honest citizens are disarmed by law, and you have a 1-in-39 chance of becoming a victim of a violent crime each year.  Atlantic City wasn’t far behind at number 8.  Bridgeton, New Jersey is #25 on the list.

Rob- comment- I’ve had gun control advocates tell me gun control works.. like it works in New Jersey, New York City and Oakland, California.  I’m not convinced.

John- Not only will criminals make you a victim in New Jersey, but so will the police.  Interview with Steffon Josey-Davis.

We have Steffon Josey-Davis with us tonight. He is a young man who had planned to go into law enforcement, worked as an armed car driver, legally owned a S&W pistol, and was even on the candidate’s list for the North Brunswick Police Department. However, due to the quirks of New Jersey’s gun laws, he is now a felon.

Steffon, could you take up the story from here and tell us what happened to change everything?

When you took the deal from the Middlesex prosecutor’s office, was it because of the alternative?
Could you have realistically fought the charges?
What now? I understand you have a plea into Gov. Christie’s office asking for a pardon. What is the status of that?
Mention his go fund me site to close.


skip 5-Interview with Tatiana Whitlock

We have anti-rights lobbyists claim there is an epidemic of child injuries from firearms. We know that isn’t true once we study the numbers, but you and I remember each tragic headline.  That is why I’m so glad to see a new video called “Kids and Guns” by Tatiana Whitlock.  We are lucky to have Tatiana join us today.  She both wrote and acted in the video by Panteao Productions.  Congratulations on your new video, Tatiana.

29 minutes is a lot of content.

I think of you as a competitive and self-defense shooter.  What pulled you to make Kids and Guns?
You asked firearms owners to lead their family by teaching their children about firearms.  I watched your video several times and you both kept it simple, and covered a lot of information.  A new gun owner would probably have to really study your video, or take a course so they know gun safety.
Gun safety.
Physical security- If you children can unlock your phone, then they can probably unlock your safe.
When did you start to gun proof your children?  How did you blunt your child’s curiosity?
Desensitized by dirty guns.
I liked the way you ask your child to be responsible outside your home, and that the adults have to provide an environment safe for visiting children as well.
Eddie Eagle.
You mentioned video violence.  What sensitized YOU to the subject of video violence?
Line of communication and living by their own judgment.
Your child’s interests may exceed your own ability to teach!  Be intentional as you interview a firearms teacher for your family.
You suggested that toy guns should NOT imitate real firearms.  You also suggest that our real guns should not imitate toys.
Tell your older children what you expect them to do when they see firearms outside the home.
Mood altering drugs!  You gave parents permission to lock up the guns or remove the firearms from the home.
Gun ownership is family business and not for public knowledge.
Tatiana, where can our listeners follow you?
Wide open spaces.com

6-You won’t find news like this every day, and almost never from Texas.  Texas Police conducted a raid based on information from a drug informant.  The informant said the suspect was running a drug operation and had illegal weapons.  The homeowner shot at the police as they broke into his mobile home during the no-knock raid.  The homeowner surrendered once the police identified themselves.  He had no illegal weapons.  He had four marijuana plants smaller than 6 inches tall.  One policeman died in the raid after being shot by the homeowner.  The grand jury refused to charge the homeowner.

What is unusual is that the homeowner wasn’t murdered by the police during the raid.  Police are routinely using gun ownership as an excuse as they seek no-knock warrants.  You could be the victim of a violent no-knock raid because you were swatted and own firearms.  The police then use any legal infraction they can find to justify the raid and avoid being sued for their violent actions.

John 7- There are many gun bills being filed across the United States since state governments are back in session.  Our Rachel Malone is fighting for human rights in Texas.  Her site is Texas Firearms Freedom.  Rachel, tell us what’s happening in the Texas Senate.


8 Laura –  Enough about Texas.  I’ve been sitting here waiting to tell you what happened when I was in Denver Colorado.
We have a republican senate and a democrat house.  We also have pro gun democrats!
Touch on divided legislature, and how that means nothing will likely pass.
Good news is magazine limitation repeal bill is bi-partisan.
CO has pro-gun democrats.
Tie to recall and 2013 gun legislation.  – no new gun control bills

D controlled house – mag limit repeal – killed
D controlled house – repeal background check –  killed
D controlled house – CBI produce certificates for transferees –  killed
D controlled house – Concealed handgun without permit –  killed
D controlled house – no liability for biz owners when someone conceal carries – killed
D controlled house – No background check for CCW holders on subsequent purchases – not scheduled yet
D controlled house – Concealed carry in schools (run by rep who is former Columbine student) – not scheduled yet
R controlled senate – Constitutional carry – passed senate, on to the house to die
R controlled senate – repeal background check – passed senate, on to the house to die
R controlled senate – mag limit repeal – to be scheduled – 4 D co-sponsors

people at the rally

Comments- One of the anit-rights protesters said “No one will die from a background check”  Really?  Tell that to the nurse who couldn’t get her firearm back from the police.  Tell that to the police who don’t know how to interpret the law and have called the background check law unenforceable.  We won’t know how many people were hurt because they could not get firearms safety training BECAUSE of the background check law.

Rob- This is from the new york times.  Dickey Lee Hullinghorst, the Democratic House speaker vowed to quickly defeat pro-gun legislation, quote  “Absolutely no chance of passage. This is one of the controversial issues where we’re never going to agree.”  Was the speaker misquoted? Sounds like she wants to keep colorado citizens disarmed.

John 9 – Katie Pavlich added up the numbers.  Nearly 50 mayors have left Billionaire Bloomberg’s group Mayors against illegal guns in the last year.  Since so many of these mayors have been prosecuted for corruption, we’re not sure if Katie’s statistics include voluntary withdraws or if she also include withdrawals due to incarceration.  With that uncertainty, Mayor John Tkazyik of Poughkeepsie, New York is left the Bloomberg group recently.  Tkazyik explained in detail that Bloomberg’s anti-gun organization isn’t about enforcing gun laws, but instead about promoting gun confiscation.  Quote “MAIG became a vehicle for Bloomberg to promote his personal gun-control agenda — violating the Second Amendment rights of law-abiding citizens and taking resources away from initiatives that could actually work to protect our neighborhoods and save precious lives.  It did not take long to realize that MAIG’s agenda was much more than ridding felons of illegal guns; that under the guise of helping mayors facing a crime and drug epidemic, MAIG intended to promote confiscation of guns from law-abiding citizens. I don’t believe, never have believed and never will believe that public safety is enhanced by encroaching on our right to bear arms, and I will not be a part of any organization that does.”

10-This is more good news, and it is also good to see where it came from.  Twenty-two percent of the concealed carry permits in Florida are held by women and the total number of permits has grown rapidly. Personal gun ownership by women has increased by nearly 80-percent in the last 9 years.  The firearms industry changed for women, from providing smaller firearms, different grips, and different classes tailored to female shooters.  The number of women at gun ranges jumped 60-percent  in the last three years.  The number of women in the State of Florida that have concealed permit has increased six fold in the last ten years.

That story was picked up by the NBC affiliate in Fort Myers, Florida

Comment- The people in Florida are the same as people anywhere else in the US.  Their behavior is different because the laws are different.  The growth in firearms ownership and personal protection we see in Florida tells us what to expect across the US once we remove government interference on the right of self-defense.  Now that scares the gun-grabbers.

11- I added this one as a spark of good news from California.  California has a law allowing mental health restraining orders.  These orders from a judge allow the state to seize a person’s firearms for up to a year.  Assemblymember Melissa Melendez, R-Lake Elsinore, is concerned that the existing law is open to abuse.  She said, Quote “Law abiding gun owners should never have to fear their rights can be stripped away because an angry ex or an angry neighbor wants to get even,” close quote.  Melendez wants to amend the law and make it a felony to file false reports while seeking gun violence restraining orders.

Rob- I messaged assemblywoman Melendez asking if she wanted to come on the show.  I also asked my state representative to support her bill.

Gun Quotes– If the average person is too irresponsible to trust with freedom, then how can we ever trust politicians with power?  Facebook.
Hang on everybody, we’ll be back with our defensive gun use segment.
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Segment 4 DGUs
Rob 1-Joseph Toombs is a young National Guardsman in Atlanta. As he sat in the drive-thru lane at his local Sonic restaurant, 19 y.o. Kenneth Brayboy and two others approached on foot and tried to rob him. One of them was armed with a handgun. It was then that Toombs drew his own handgun and shot Brayboy who later died at the hospital. Desmond McKnight. 17, has been charged with murder, attempted armed robbery, and tampering with evidence. Police are still looking for the third robber as well as the suspects’ gun. Toombs, who cooperated with police, will not be charged. Sonic is one of those restaurant chains that kowtowed to demands from Shannon Watts and Everytown. They had asked patrons not to come armed to their restaurants.

2-Christopher Ray Foster tried to force his way into the wrong home on Tuesday morning. He paid for it with his life. A rural Van Zandt County, Texas woman called 9-1-1 at 4:30am to report she had just shot a man trying to force his way into her home. The Sheriff’s Office determined that Foster was shot when he tried to break in through a side door. Materials found on his body tied him to a recent arson. In addition, Foster was out on bail for failing to register as a sex offender. The homeowner was not charged but, as is standard procedure, the case is being sent to the DA’s office.

Comment – I like what the local Sheriff said: “Presently, as the result of underfunding and inadequate staffing at the Van Zandt County Sheriff’s Office, homeowners need to take appropriate precautions to protect their families. I will continue to support the law abiding citizens of our community when they are forced to take actions to protect their lives, liberty and property.”

3-Riverside County Sheriff’s deputies were called to Bermuda Dunes early Saturday morning with reports of a prowler. While there, they got another call from a woman saying that her husband had just shot an intruder. They found the intruder inside the home suffering from two gun shot wounds. He was taken to the hospital where he later died. His name was not released pending notification of next of kin. The homeowner was not charged with any crime.

4-A home invasion in Madison County, Alabama turned deadly Monday night. Four people forced their way into a home there. The homeowner was armed and defended himself. When deputies arrived in response to a “shots fired” call, they found one of the intruders, Richard Taylor, dead. This was the second time that day deputies were called to the home on a burglary call. The homeowner will not be charged but the three other home invaders have been captured and are charged. They face charges of murder, robbery, and burglary.

Here we have a homeowner facing four attackers.  That is an argument for high capacity magazines.
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Segment 5 Show close
Laura- Welcome back to he ….This is our e-mail discussion segment.

Marty Krutolow asked for our comments on an article originally published in Slate magazine.  The article looks at data from the National Institute of Health.  It claims that more guns lead to more crime.

Marty, I’d counter with these data from Dr. John Lott.  It shows you the data of homicide rate versus the rate of gun ownership.  We lead in gun ownership.  We are average in homicide rate.

gun ownership rate versus murder rate

gun ownership rate versus murder rate

For your amusement, commentator Bill Whittle produced an interesting video on guns and violence.  It is called “Number One with a Bullet”.  We are 111th when countries are ranked by murder rate.  If you remove the leading Democrat controlled anti gun cities, then our US murder drops dramatically.  If the US had the murder rate of “gun nut” gun owning cities like Plano, Texas, then we’d rank 211th out of the 214 nations ranked.  Heavily armed Plano, Texas has a murder rate that is half of the rate in Germany.  So how do guns cause crime and murder?

Drug gangs, fatherlessness and poverty cause violence and murder.  Polticians ignore that fact because it is easier for a politician to blame guns than blame his policies.

Marty calls himself a gun owning liberal, and I say  welcome Marty, and thank you for listening.  We want to talk to everyone, and we know our listeners are not responsible for how their politicians vote.  In fact, it is the gun owning liberals who have to turn their politicians around.  Marty lives in New York State.

(DO NOT READ)The Polite Society download app is out on Amazon for Android and the I-phone app is in I-tunes and it is called Podcast Box.  They are located by our old name, Politics and guns.  Hot links are in our show notes.

Laura- Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?

Rob- I wrote that some rights are more equal than others.  Suppose we violated the right of free speech the way we violate the right of self-defense.  Laura, did they pass a ten word limit when you speak in Colorado?  Did they limit the size and power of a public address system?  When they imposed those limits on speech, did they explain that the government gets to speak as loudly as it wants to.  That is what we’ve done to the right of self-defense.

These infringements on your rights, and the politicians call them regulations rather than infringements, are necessary to protect the public.. or that is what the politicans say.

John: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast.  I’d like to thank Laura Carno, Tatiana Whitlock and Steffon Josey for joining us today.  Rob, will you be with us next time?  I’m looking forward to it.  Until the next time…
Rob: stay safe,
Laura: be aware,
John: and we’ll see you down the road.

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