Episode 297



“An armed society is a polite society.. and this is the Polite Society Podcast where we support and report on civilian self-defense.”

Rob: Welcome to the polite society podcast presented by the Firearms Policy Coalition recorded live on Sunday, December 28th, 2014.  Happy new year.  I’m Rob Morse.

John: I’m John Richardson, and we’ll tell you what Vik Khanna really wanted for Christmas.

Gary D: I’m Gary Daugherty and in our DGU’s, an Oklahoma pastor protected his family against a home invader. So climb aboard

John: strap in

Rob:  and hang on! Because episode 297 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.

Show intro music.


Seg 1- Personal news from each participant


John- Nothing gun related from me. My Christmas was spent eating great food and installing a new computer for my wife and a new larger hard drive for me. We then spent the weekend with my step-daughter and son-in-law. All in all, a good time.


Gary- Still here in Plano, TX visiting my parents and sister, still haven’t made it to the Guntry Club, plan is for Tuesday. Interesting fact Plano, TX is one of the few large cities that requires a college degree to become a police officer.


Rob- The five of us were sick for Christmas.  I got in a few minutes of dry practice with my brother, and I put in the gun springs I got for Christmas.



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Seg 2- News

1-We had Vik Khanna on our show before.  In He told us what he REALLY wanted for Christmas.

Dear Santa,

This year, I would like you to please bring large doses of common sense and a deeper appreciation of math and data to people who think guns are the problem. Come to think of it, if you could please give them all a certificate that allows them to go back to high school and repeat both algebra and logical reasoning classes, I would deeply appreciate it and it would probably help us all.


For my fellow gun-rights supporters, please bring reminders that we need to be better than our opponents. Be polite when they are rude. Be kind always in debate and action. Be of good humor when they are nothing but angry and irrational. Be consistently responsible with your firearm even though they think that’s an impossibility.


Finally, Santa, my kid wants to compete in 3-Gun when he’s older. Please bring me a good guide on choosing the right rifle for him. We’ve got the shotgun and handgun covered, but the rifle is new ground for us.


Merry Christmas to all.

Your big fan in St. Louis,

Vik Khanna


2- Even the Washington Post has to get into the Christmas spirit.. by pointing out that lots of guns were given as gifts.  When our listeners meet these new gun owners, please ask them when they will get some training.


Comment- Yes, that is hard to do since the District of Columbia has outlawed civilian ranges.


3-Munhall, Pennsylvania passed a city ordinance a few years ago.  The demanded that gun owners report lost or stolen weapons within 72 hours or face fines of 1000 dollars and up to 90 days in jail.  It is unclear if the penalties apply per incident or per firearm.  City  councilors repealed the ordinance due to threats of being sued.  Town solicitor Greg Evashavik said,

“Firearms are regulated by the state, and there (were) challenges raised to these local ordinances, whether or not local governments have the authority to regulate firearms. Recent legislation confirms that they may not.”


Several small Pennsylvania cities have done the same thing.  Democrat controlled Philadelphia and Pittsburgh are challenging the preemption law.


Rob- comment- Pre-emption works two ways.  Why isn’t some small Pennsylvania town ticketing drivers who are stopped without a firearm?


Gary 4- Legal briefs were due in the Peruta case last week.  Over 20 individuals and organizations weighed in with their reasons the full court should not review the case.  A three judge panel ruled that self-defense was sufficient reason to issue concealed carry licenses.  It was unconstitutional for San Diego Sheriff Bill Gore to demand greater reasons.  The Firearms Policy Coalition argued that the State lacks standing to defend the county’s interest in this case because it has no authority to grant, deny or revoke the licenses at issue. Those functions are expressly assigned under the law to local officers.  They further argue that the state does not have a stake in the case since they are not one of the injured parties.  The state itself denied that it was one of the injured parties when they were sued in the past for concealed carry violations.  Furthermore, California has no role in the enforcement of the

challenged policy: under California law, the State has no statutory authority to grant, deny or revoke concealed carry licenses.


Attorney Alan Gura argued for the Second Amendment Foundation and for Calguns in the case.  He said that the similar legal case of Richards vs Prieto was the straightforward path for an en-banc review, since the defendant, Yolo County Sheriff Ed Prieto, asked for a review while San Diego Sheriff Bill Gore had not.  Prieto could also ask for an appeal to the supreme court, while Gore would not.  Gura also argued that both the Richards and Peruta cases were suits brought against a county officials interpretation of state law rather than against the state law itself.


5- We commented on the crazy gun laws in Washington State in our last episode.  Most states recognize the right of self-defense to defend your life when threatened by another person.  A Washington state prosecutor charged a gun owner by claiming that the right to armed self-defense did not extend to defending yourself from attack by a dog.  An earlier trial court said the gun owner could claim a necessary defense, but that put the burden on the gun owner to prove the necessity with a preponderance of the evidence.  Claiming self-defense under Washington law puts the burden on the state prosecutor to show that the gun owner had not shown he acted in self defense beyond a reasonable doubt.  The Washington Court of Appeals sided with the gun owner and said there is a constitutional right to self-defense including killing animals where that action might violate game laws or other laws.


6- South Carolina representative Alan Clemmons was tired of schools with a “zero tolerance” policy toward firearms.  Clemmons drafted a bill to ensure rights of free expression are granted to school students including expression of gun-related topics. The bill requires a portion of the state-mandated study of the U.S. Constitution be devoted to the Second Amendment. It also established an annual student poster and essay contest.”  Quote “What started as school board attempts to stop students from bringing guns into school has turned into an anti-Second-Amendment movement, with significant social consequences.  We are raising a nation of children to believe that any mention of firearms, let alone their ownership, is socially unacceptable, if not evil.” close quote.


John 7- We often talk about safety at home.  How about at your workplace or on the public streets.  What about cases where your workplace IS the public streets?  A half-dozen Jacksonville, Florida firefighters were working on their equipment while refueling their ladder truck from city pumps.  The pumps are next to the fire station.  One of the firefighters was struck by a ricochet after the firemen were shot at in a drive by shooting.  There were bullet impact marks on the truck as well.  The fuel pumps were not hit. The fireman’s injuries did not require stitches.  The truck remained in service.


Rob-comment.  I understand some people are upset with a handful of police officers.  But..the millions of uniformed first responders are not your enemy.. you stupid idiot.  Don’t shoot our cops OR our firemen/EMTs.


8- Contained among the documents forced out by the Freedom of Information Act suit by Judicial Watch was a 60-page document that said Operation Fast and Furious was intended to foster more gun control. According to journalist Sharyl Attkisson, this document points to multi-agency participation in the operation. The participating agencies included the DEA, Immigration and Customs Enforcement, the IRS, and the Phoenix PD in addition to ATF. Also was this talking point from ATF’s Public Affairs unit. “These cases demonstrate the ongoing trafficking of firearms by Mexican (drug trafficking organizations) and other associated groups operating in Arizona and the need for reporting of multiple sales for certain types of rifles in order to ferret out those intent on providing firearms to these criminal groups.” The ATF did finally get their wish and this multiple sales reporting requirement for certain semi-auto rifles is a regulation in Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, and California.


John – And for ATF to get this regulation, Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry had to die. That is sick.


9- We reported on the DGU from Charlotte, North Carolina where a 14 y.o. shot and killed a home intruder while protecting his grandmother in a past episode. Now it seems that family is being targeted for retaliation. George Wyant, his wife, and grandson were asleep on Tuesday when someone walked up to the house and fired several shots into the house. Wyant said, “My wife is scared to death, (my) grandson (is) scared to death every time they hear a noise,”. They ended up spending Christmas at another relative’s house while Charlotte-Mecklenburg detectives investigate this shooting.


Rob 10- Chicago Ridge Mall reopened this morning after closing early last night. There were over 100 youths in the food court where several fights broke out. Three pops were heard that started everybody stampeding for the exit.  Local news sources did not report gunfire, but Denver news stations reported shots fired. The mall is a posted gun free zone.  The police have no suspects.


John- Gun Quotes- “Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birth-right of an American…The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people.”  – Tench Coxe, 1788 from Proclaiming Liberty by Philip Mullivor..

Hang on everybody, we’ll be back after this

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Kevin in Orange County, California.  You were not allowed to get a license until your sheriff, Sandra Hutchens, decided that self-defense was sufficient cause after the first ruling in the Peruta case.

new ccw in Orange County.  You and about 5 thousand others started carrying in Orange county this year.  Are you a new gun owner and old ccw?

Tell us about your history with firearms and concealed carry?

Expectations of the class

experience in the class

Expectations with County Sheriff’s office

experience w county sheriff

Expectations of EDC

experience with EDC

How often do you carry?

How did you work your way into carrying every day?

Other family who carry?

Encourage others to get their license in OC


any help from cal guns or firearms policy coalition website?


Segment 4 DGUs

Rob1-Some police investigations take years.  This one didn’t take long.  Tim Vineyard lives in Oklahoma City.  Vineyard was in the newspapers back in 2011 when he wrote an open letter to the Oklahoma City Police Chief asking for fewer firearms regulations.  Vineyard is also the pastor at Windsor Hills Baptist Church.   Windsor Hills Baptist Church offered gun training sessions for its members, including children.


Vineyard was shopping for Christmas presents when his home alarm company called him warning of a break in.  The Pastor returned home and was attacked as he searched his bedroom.  Vineyard is a concealed carry holder.  He shot and killed his attacker.

Keontre Reese died of gunshot wounds.  Reese was awaiting trial for a previous break in.  Reese entered this home by tearing out a window air conditioner.  Reese hid in the bedroom closet when he heard the homeowner return.  Reese attacked the pastor when he entered the room.  Keontre Reese was 14 year old.

The county district attorney ruled this a case of justified self-defense.

Gary 2-I doubt this case will take much longer to no-bill this homeowner from Memphis Tennessee.  A 75 year old man came home to find three armed robbers in his home.  He told them to stop where they were.  They moved toward the concealed carry holder.  The elderly man drew his concealed handgun and fired several times.  18-year-old Jordan Mitchell and 20-year-old Melvin Atkins died from their gunshot wounds.  The 18 year old had prior arrests for aggravated robbery, felony theft, and others charges he received as a minor.  The third robber escaped.  The area has a long history of break ins and many of the residents have installed security cameras.  This particular home had been robbed before.


John- Also from Memphis.. A neighbor saw two men try to enter several houses in the neighborhood.  The two robbers knocked on a front door and a woman answered.  The two thugs forced the door open and put a gun to the woman’s neck.  Another occupant of the home heard them break in and grabbed his firearm.  He shot 22-year-old Nico Carlisle.   The other robber escaped.  Carlisle was pronounced dead on the scene.


Rob 3-Yes, Virginia, there are DGU’s.. even in Anaheim Hills, California.  This next DGU was sent in my listener Kevin from California.  Nathanael Blair had exchanged Christmas gifts with his family, and then went downstairs to move his truck into his garage.  He opened the garage door and was hit in the face with a pipewrench by a burglar wearing a skimask.  Blair climbed upstairs and locked the door to protect his wife and 3-year-old daughter.  Next he grabbed his shotgun and went back downstairs.  He shot the burglar.


Despite the wound, the suspect ran off. The homeowner called police and declined medical attention.  The burglar had attempted to enter several homes in the area.  The police caught the burglar a few hours later.  The burglar was being treated at a local hospital and will be charged with residential robbery following his release from the hospital.


Gary- If you step outside to get your car on your driveway you are in a public place according to California law.  That means you need a permit to walk to your car while you’re armed with a handgun.  Anaheim Hills is in Orange County.  The Orange County Sheriff now grants concealed carry for self-defense.  The homeowner could have had a permit and should get one now.


John 4-A 25 year old man was waiting in his car for his girlfriend to finish her shopping at a Walgreens Pharmacy in Madison Wisconsin.  19 year old Quincy Thompson approached the driver and pointed a gun at him.  Soon, the drivers 22 year old girlfriend came out of the store and the gunman pointed the gun at her.  This prompted the boyfriend to go for his own loaded weapon and point it at the robber. Thompson then reportedly said: “Go ahead and shoot me, I’m not afraid of you, I’m from the south side of Chicago and I’m not afraid of white people.” The couple called police, and the suspect fled. Police picked him up a short distance away.  Thompson was placed in a squad car, where he reportedly punched the windows and kicked the door from its frame.  Thompson was held on potential charges of using a facsimile firearm, resisting a police officer, two counts of disorderly conduct, possession of a laser pointer and underage consumption of alcohol.


Rob- comment- This is close to a drunk thug’s suicide suicide by concealed carry holder.


Rob- A Dallas Texas man saw a woman being beaten as she rode in an adjacent vehicle.  He drew his firearm and held the driver until police arrived.   Witnesses thought the man with a gun outside the car might have been a criminal.  Instead he was the defender.

Police arrested 28 year old MacMichael Nwaiwu. (Nwi- Wu)  He is now in the Keller jail.


Witnesses said, it’s amazing that in this day in age that people are willing to reach out and help.  I hope more people see this and are willing to go the extra mile for someone who like this woman, didn’t have a voice and couldn’t speak up for herself,” said Bryant.

The Tarrant County District Attorney’s Office does not believe the armed citizen broke any state laws.


We post each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com  Please take a minute and share them with a friend.  You could save a life.


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Segment 5 Show close


Listener e-mail discussion

Gary- This came from Tim in Kansas-

You asked why is this is my favorite podcast. I believe the reason is the following. The information provided by the podcast is accurate; current, accepted; understandable; applicable; and usable in real time (Actionable).


Wow, thank you, Tim.


(DO NOT READ)The Polite Society download app is out on Amazon for Android and the I-phone app is in I-tunes and it is called Podcast Box.  They are located by our old name, Politics and guns.  Hot links are in our show notes.


John- Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?


Rob- I posted an article called They Promised Us Peace about the new firearms restrictions in Washington State.  They passed more laws to stop those who don’t obey the law.  Restricting our right of self-defense does not make us safer.  Never has.  Never will.


Gary: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast.  co-hosts, will you be with us next time?  I’m looking forward to it.  Until the next time…stay safe

Rob: be aware,

John: and we’ll see you down the road.


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