Episode 272 – Shaneen Allen Gets Pre-Trial Intervention

“An armed society is a polite society.. and this is the Polite Society Podcast where we support and report on civilian self-defense.”

Rob: Welcome to the polite society podcast recorded live on Wednesday, September 24th, 2014. I’m Rob Morse

Rachel: I’m Rachel Malone and on tonights show we’ll talk about self-defense news.

John: I’m John Richardson, and we’ll talk about self-defense news and defensive gun use.

Rachel: John, I already said we have news.

John, Yes, but we have a lot of news, so climb aboard.

Rachel : strap in

Rob: and hang on! Episode 272 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.

Show intro music.


Seg 1- Personal news from each participant


Rob- Cleaned all the handguns.  JPFO picked up one of my posts about my sheriff, William Gore.  That got me a few hundred hits on the website.  I went to the first meeting of a new chapter of Gun Owners of California here in San Diego.  I tried to set up an interview with a local gun store owner.  He’ll come on next Wednesday.  I toured a huge new indoor shooting range.  Dry practice.  I’d like to give a shout out to the podcast Guns Over Texas.  They mentioned our podcast the other day, and I’m a listener to theirs.


Rachel- nada. Just daily life. I’ll be at a BattleRoadUSA shoot this weekend testing out a new course of fire for a rifle marksmanship course, so I’ll report on that next time.


John – I received my new Kydex holster for my SIRT pistol. I’ve been both practicing drawing and dry firing. I’ve also been getting stuff ready for my trip to the Gun Rights Policy Conference. On a very serious note, I’d like our listeners to keep a long-time friend of the show, Bob Mayne, in your thoughts and prayers. He posted this afternoon on Facebook that he will be undergoing surgery this Friday to remove a tumor from his brain at M.D. Anderson Cancer Center in Houston. He says he will have friends and family with him but he needs our prayers and support. He hopes to be home by Monday.



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Seg 2- News


John- In breaking news from New Jersey, Shaneen Allen will be allowed into a pre-trial intervention program. The Attorney General of New Jersey clarified a directive dealing with the state’s gun laws with respect to out-of-state visitors from states where their gun possession would be legal. He said that imprisonment is “neither necessary or appropriate”. Following that directive, Atlantic County Prosecutor Jim McClain said, “”In applying the factors set out in the clarification, I determined that the defendant in this case should be offered the opportunity to be admitted into the Atlantic County PTI Program.  I have communicated that determination to the court and defense counsel.” This is great news.


Rachel Comment – It goes to show that when heat is properly applied, politicians will get in line.

Rob comment- what were they thinking when they prosecuted Brian Aitken?  New Jersey also needs to lighten up on its own citizens.


Rob- Let’s continue with good news.  When California police don’t have a crime with which to prosecute honest firearms owners.. they invent a crime.  Too often this becomes a case of he said, she said, where the judge believes the police officer despite contradictory evidence.  This time was different.  Mindy Costa was charged with transporting her firearms illegally in an unlocked case.  The police video shows that the case was locked.  In other words, the policeman lied.  The police then scrambled to find some crime with which to charge Ms Costa so the department could avoid a charge of malicious prosecution.


Torrance, California has a little know local ordinance that prohibited the carrying of firearms throughout the City of Torrance even if the firearms are carried in accordance with California law.  Ms Costa was transporting the firearms for self-defense, rather than work, trade, business, sport or recreation as allowed by law.  There is an exception if a handgun is carried by a concealed carry holder, but the Torrance police don’t issue carry permits.  Ms Costa’s lawyer said she would not accept a plea deal to the misdemeanor charges.  In effect, the Torrance regulation is a complete ban on the purchase, possession and use of a gun for  self-defense at home.


Ms Costa submitted a series of letters and dialog with the City Attorney’s Office challenging the ordinances as a violation of the Second Amendment and as being preempted under California law.  Finally, the city attorney agreed.  Costa’s lawyer said she would file a lawsuit unless the regulations were rescinded in 60 days.


On August 12 the ordinance to repeal the unlawful sections of their codes were brought up for a second reading as required by law and the motion passed unanimously.  This happened because one person was willing to stand by her innocence.


John comment- God this sounds like a corrupt southern sheriff.

Rob- it is southern California.  But Ms Costa is also from southern California.

comment-  For a while there I needed to read the article to tell if it was Torrance, California.. or Newark, New Jersey.


Rachel -The next news article reminds me of the corrupt Garden State of New Jersey, but in fact it is from New York.  Dwayne Ferguson is an anti-gun activist.  He lobbied for laws that make carrying a firearm on school grounds a felony.  He also brought a firearm on school grounds and was arrested.  In New Jersey they’d sentence him to a decade in prison.  In New York they’d sentence you or me to 4 years.  But things are different when you’re politically connected.  On Monday, Judge John L. Michalek sentenced Ferguson to 100 hours of community service, and a conditional discharge.


John comment- it is a close race to see which state is the most politically corrupt.


John -Another corrupt Sheriff helped change the laws in Alabama, if only be being a horrible example to others.  Aaron Williams was a reserve deputy in Washington County, Alabama.  Williams worked for the prior sheriff, William Wheat.  Williams had a permit to carry for the last 14 years.  That stopped when he supported the old sheriff in an election and the new sheriff took exception.  Sheriff Richard Stringer tore down the campaign signs of his opponent, and in some cases, replaced the signs with his own.  Then the sheriff refused to give concealed carry licenses to the opponent’s supporters.  That is why Williams recorded sheriff Stringer.  Sheriff Stringer said, “As hard as you fought me, and as many of my signs as you tore down, son … you crapped in your nest with me. Don’t you stub your toe.”


State Sen. Scott Beason of Gardendale credited the recording posted on Youtube with helping to pass a bill he sponsored last year that loosened restrictions on Alabama pistol permits.   Now Sheriff Stringer has less discretion to deny carry permits.  That wasn’t enough for Aaron Williams.  Williams left Washington County and moved to Mississippi.


Rachel comment- power corrupts, and the power to deny the right of self defense is obviously too much temptation for this small Alabama Sheriff.


Rob comment- This reminds me of the corrupt Milwaukee DA that scoured his department trying to find out who exposed his political vendettas.  The leaker was a lawyer who had to leave the county after he was discovered and the press harassed his elementary school age children.


Rob-Speaking for corrupt cities like Milwaukee and Chicago.. 36 people were shot last weekend in Chicago including 12 and 16 year old boys.  Four of them died.


John comment- how is that gun-control working out for you, Rahm?

Rachel comment- It works for Rahm.  It stinks for the rest of the citizens.


Rob-You may not like politics.  You may dislike politicians from both parties.  That is good for the anti-gun billionaires who want you to sit home and drink rather than help a candidate and make phone calls.  Billionaire Michael Bloomberg handed out endorsements this week, and the endorsements came with some sizable checks.  Among the candidates receiving backing are 32 candidates for state offices, 61 vying for House seats and 17 running for the U.S. Senate.


In the Senate, the group is endorsing vulnerable incumbent Democratic Senators like Kay Hagan (N.C.), Mark Udall (Colo.) and Mary Landrieu (La.), as well as Rep. Bruce Braley (D-Iowa).  Braley is battling for the seat to be vacated by retiring Sen. Tom Harkin (D-Iowa).


Rachel comment- Vote check.  Tell me you’re registered to vote.

John comment – And Bloomberg isn’t the only one supporting these anti-gun incumbents with money. So are Americans for Responsible Solutions who have made them priority campaigns.


Rachel- And speaking of Bloomberg and his Moms Demanding Action, Alison Martin is head of the New York Chapter. In addition to being anti-gun, she seems to be ignorant of history as well. On Twitter yesterday, she was engaging in a war of words with pro-gun activists. One person noted a quote from Nazi propaganda minister Josef Goebbels saying “If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear.” Ms. Martin responded “Mr. Goebbels’ words are wise words to live by.”


John Comment – you just can’t make stuff like this up!


John- The National Shooting Sports Foundation did its research and reported on the expected effects of California’s ban on hunting with lead ammunition.  They presented their report at a public hearing of the Wildlife Resource Committee of the California Fish and Game Commission.  Non-lead ammunition is not available for about half of hunting calibers, and the report found the California ban will cause severe shortages nationwide. California’s ban will at least triple the price of ammunition, driving more than one-third of the state’s hunters to hunt less or stop hunting completely. The expected loss of more than 50,000 hunters in California will cause a loss of millions of dollars in salaries and in tax revenue.


Rob comment- votes have consequences.

Rachel comment- there is a similar lead-ban proposed in Oregon last week.  Oregon gun owners, if you snooze you’ll lose.


Rob-Yes votes have consequences, but different states are different.  Let me remind you that the democrat controlled legislature in Colorado passed anti-gun bills last year and also raised taxes.  Democrat Colorado Governor John Hickenlooper signed them into law.  Colorado citizens then recalled two state senators, including the democrat senate majority leader, John Morse.  Those anti- gun votes continue to have consequences.  Michael Bloomberg said thier anti-gun vote would guarantee the politicians a wave election.  And it might.. sort of.  Colorado Republican Bob Beauprez(BOO-PRAY) leads incumbent Democratic Gov. John Hickenlooper by 10 points in the latest polls.  Representative Beauprez among likely voters, 50 percent to 40 percent. The two candidates are essentially even among female voters, while Mr. Beauprez has a 20-point lead among male voters at 54 percent to 34 percent. The Republican challenger also leads the incumbent by 13 points, 50 percent to 37 percent, among independent voters.  The poll has an error of plus or minus 2.8 percent.


Rachel comment- Senor Hickenlooper, this wave election.. it does not mean what you think it means.


Rachel -Since we’re talking about polls, a recent poll in Utah had some encouraging results.  Sixty-four percent of Utahns are in support of teachers carrying concealed weapons in school.  The poll was released by UtahPolicy.com. As you’d expect, appointed police chiefs in Utah took offense.  Salt Lake City Police Chief Chris Burbank agrees with the 33 percent polled who said kindergarten through 12 grade teachers should not carry concealed weapons in the classroom.  The poll surveyed 395 Utahns representing each county in Utah. Participants were asked if they thought teachers should be allowed to carry concealed weapons in the classroom, and if they were aware that Utah law allows them to do so without having to tell parents or school administration.  Four out of five thought a concealed weapon in the classroom made schools safer.


Hang on everybody, we’ll be right back after this




John- Legislation introduced Wednesday in the House of Representatives would dissolve the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. Representative Jim Sensenbrenner from Wisconsin introduced the bill.  The bill would transfer the ATF’s responsibilities to other agencies in the Justice Department. Sensenbrenner said “The ATF is a largely duplicative, scandal-ridden agency that lacks a clear mission.  It is plagued by backlogs, funding gaps, hiring challenges and a lack of leadership. For decades it has been branded by high profile failures.”  Gun owners know that one of the notorious ATF failures was Operation Fast and Furious that walked thousands of firearms into the hands of the Mexican drug cartels.


Rob comment- the bill won’t pass the Senate, but I like it anyway.

John – comment – I have to disagree. It is better to keep firearms regulation under an inept agency which gets no respect than put it on the FBI who gets a pass most of the time even when they kill a mother with a child in her arms as at Ruby Ridge.


Rachel -All firearms bills are not equal, because some can be misused.  This is an election year, so many politicians are trying to be noticed.  They propose bills that pretend to be hard on crime.  The real question is whether the law will stop violent crime or simply turn gun owners into convicted felons.  Missouri State Senator Jamilah Nasheed intends to introduce a bill setting a ten year minimum penalty for gun crimes.  This is also a trap for perfectly innocent people going about their daily lives.  The question for Missouri gun owners is if Senator Nasheed’s bill is the usual anti- gun catch all bill that criminalizes most lawful gun uses.  I hope our listeners will keep us informed.


Rob -From the same people who brought you TSA and want to lose your health care information.. there have been more misadventures with the National Instant Criminal Background Check System under the Federal Bureau of Investigation.  The system was down for two hours on Friday, and had been down eight times earlier in the week.  The system started experiencing problems when the FBI implemented the Next Generation Identification system.  This new system merges facial features, scans irises, and reads palm and fingerprints to identify criminals.  All this is to replace the single Integrated Automated Fingerprint Identification System. The outages affected both NICS Contracted Call Centers and NICS E-Check.


Rachel comment- I’m sorry, please call back later.  We’re experiencing technical difficulties and your rights are unavailable at this time.


John -Denying rights in Washington leads us to this next story from the District of Columbia city council.  A federal district judge said the city must allow concealed carry for district residents and for visitors.  The District asked to indefinitely postpone implementing the judges ruling.  It isn’t surprising, but the judge rejected the request.  The judge went further.  District Court Judge Frederick J. Scullin Jr. denied a motion to delay the implementation of his ruling if the decision is appealed.  DC lawmakers wrote legislation that would only grant the right to carry arms to a small number of individuals.  DC citizens would first have to prove they had a “good reason” to carry a firearm. The bill’s sponsor Council Chairman Phil Mendelson said he doubts that they will have more than a couple hundred permits issued a year from now.


Rob comment- in other words, the DC city council adopted New Jersey legislation.

John comment-  Looks like it.  We’ll see if that satisfies Judge Scullin.

Rob comment- I read some of their speeches justifying more regulation and I had to laugh.  They cite example of example where their gun control regulations completely failed.. And then they say that is the reason they need more of the same.

comment- insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.


Rachel -Speaking of New Jersey.. where human rights go to die. New Jersey just raised its court fees. Permits to carry a handgun would now cost $50, up from $20.  Appealing a denial of a permit to buy a handgun, which currently does not have a fee, would now cost $50,


Rachel Last month, we reported on the proposed Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commision rule change that would allow the sale of alcohol at gun shows but also potentially end gun shows as we know them with stiff new regulations. At the public hearing, TABC members heard testimony from a roomful of gun owners and gun groups who opposed the new rule as it was proposed. Yesterday, TABC voted to withdraw the proposed rules changes. It seems that the only people disappointed will be those with the Dallas Safari Club – the ones who originally requested this rule.


Rob Comment- Sometimes, having enough money DOESN’T get you want you want.


John -Talk about the agenda at the GRPC

the conference starts this Friday, and it is free.  Registration opens at 7pm, and then they have a free reception with a cash bar.  Here are some of the speaker’s I’m looking forward to hear, and to talk with during the breaks.

Jeff Knox, Larry Pratt, Stephen Halbrook, Philip Van Cleave, Scott Bach, Jim Wallace, Andrew Rothman, Tom Gresham, Dan Schmutter, David Jensen, David Kopel, John Fund, George Owens, John Lott, Massad Ayoob, John Edeen, Chris Bird, Gene Hoffman, Alan Korwin, Robert Young, Timothy Wheeler, Tim Schmidt, Charles Heller, David Codrea,


Rob comment- Anthony Colandro and John Pierce will be there too.

John comment- what about Emily Miller, Bob Owens, Kathy Jackson and Fredy Reil?


Rachel Gun Quotes- If you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed; if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a small chance of survival. There may even be a worse case: you may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves. – Winston Churchill


Rachel– Hang on everybody, we’ll be right back after this

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Segment 3 Interviews


Segment 4 DGUs


John -It’s been a while since we’ve reported on a DGU from Detroit. Yesterday afternoon around 4pm a man was working in his backyard when he caught two men trying to break into his storage building. After one of the men acted like he had a gun, the homeowner shot him in the chest with a shotgun. The burglar is reported in stable condition. Meanwhile, police picked up the other man as he tried to flee. Police say the homeowner did the right thing and had a right to protect himself. They will, however, leave the final decision to the prosecutor’s office.


Rob – A homeowner in Van Nuys, California found an intruder in his guest house at 11 pm.  The homeowner and the intruder fought after the intruder threatened to kill the homeowner.  The intruder hit the homeowner with a glass measuring cup and followed the homeowner towards the main house.  The homeowner grabbed his firearm.  The intruder threatened to kill the homeowner and the homeowner shot the intruder, 25 year old Grachia Nalbandyan, in the hip.  Nalbandyan then tried to steal a car to escape. He has an extensive criminal record and is on federal probation for possession of a firearm.  Nalbandyan was denied bail because the break-in was a violation of his probation.


Rachel -Burt’s Meat Market has been on Lyons Avenue in Houston, TX for more than 60 years. The manager said in all that time they’ve never been robbed and he’s never had to touch the gun he keeps in the store until last night.  A thief walked into the store and pointed his gun at the teenage clerk’s face.  The store manager saw the gunman from the back room.  He fired twice and struck the thief in the back of the head.  The robber stumbled out of the door and was able to run away, as the search for the robber continues.  The manager said “I looked out a window and all I could see was his hand with a pistol. I didn’t know what to do.  (it was) just spur of the moment.  I just did what I had to do. Everything happened and I did it on instinct. I was just worried about everyone else in here.”


John -Dog attacks can be really scary. A Spokane, Washington man found that out when a roaming pitbull attacked his 10-year old German Shepherd service dog as they walked to a store. The man, after kicking the pitbull and hitting it on the muzzle with his pistol, was forced to shoot the pitbull in the side to stop the attack. The service dog’s vest saved him from serious wounds. The pitbull was taken to an emergency vet hospital. Police say the man is not likely to face any charges for shooting the pitbull.


Rob- A store clerk at a Marathon gas station in Canton, Ohio faced a 3 on 1 attack and lived to tell about it. After one of the three masked robbers shot him in the leg and hip, he returned fire killing two of the three attackers. 21 year old Ronny Lawson and 23 year old Antonio Gracia were both pronounced dead at local hospitals. The third robber is still on the loose. Det. Capt. Dave Davis said that Lawson and Gracia has long criminal records and they are now looking to see if they were involved in other armed robberies in the area. The clerk who was shot is recovering from his wounds and a second clerk in the store at the time was unharmed. An interesting sidebar to this story is that the clerk that was shot was legally open carrying his pistol at the time of the attempted robbery.


Rachel – A thief had been burglarizing a number of condominiums in Palatine, Illinois.  A condo-owner came home late Thursday morning and found Noah Perlman in her bedroom.  Perlman was armed with a hammer and large screwdriver.  The homeowner retrieved her handgun and held Perlman for police.  The thief was charged with residential burglary, felony possession of stolen property valued at over $10,000, forgery of a stolen check, and possession of a controlled substance.


Rob comment- Do you really have time to get a gun from a safe AFTER you arrive home and find an intruder?

Rachel- comment- Gun check.  Where is your gun?  I have mine right here.


Rob- John, did you mention that you have a Ruger LCR?  I noticed that the LCR is now available for 9mm with moon clips.

John – I have the original Ruger LCR in .38 Special +P. I’d love to have the new LCR in 9mm. Moon clips will make reloads really quick.


We have the links to each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com  The stories and links are a great way to introduce the podcast to a friend.


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Segment 5 Show close


Listener e-mail discussion


(DO NOT READ)The Polite Society download app is out on Amazon for Android and the I-phone app is in I-tunes and it is called Podcast Box.  They are located by our old name, Politics and guns.  Hot links are in our show notes.


Rachel- John do you want to mention anything from your blog you would like to talk about?


John- I just renewed my Curios and Relics FFL. What was interesting about that was a question on the renewal application. This was the first time in 18 years that I was asked if I have conducted or intend to conduct internet sales of firearms. If yes, list websites from which you conduct your internet business. I’m wondering if they was a sop to the gun prohibitionists who have been making sales of firearms using the internet a cause celebe. As I said, why this question and why now?


John- Rob, do you want to mention anything from you blog?


Rob- I’ll have an article out early next week.  It drives me crazy when people criticize women for learning self-defense.  Defending yourself is NOT enabling rape culture.


(DO NOT READ)Look at the shooters club by Bob Mayne and Ben Branam.  For $75.00 a year, $6.25 a month, you get 24/7 access to some fantastic training and audio podcasts that you can’t get anywhere else.  Subscribing from the link in our show notes helps Bob and Ben as well as helps us here at the Polite Society Podcast.


(DO NOT READ)Join your local civil rights group like the New Jersey Second Amendment Society, Arizona Citizens Defense League, Gun Owners of California, Commonwealth Second Amendment,  Connecticut Citizens Defense League, Florida Carry, Georgia Carry, Georgia Gun Owners, Grass Roots North Carolina, Illinois Carry, Maryland Shall Issue,  Michigan Gun Owners , Michigan Open Carry, and  Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners.


There are Minnesota Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance,  Nebraska Firearms Owners Association,   Citizens for a Safer New Jersey, New York State Rifle & Pistol Association,  Open Carry Texas, Texas Firearms Freedom, Texas State Rifle Association. Tennessee Firearms Association, Virginia Citizens Defense League, Virginia Open Carry,  West Virginia Citizens Defense League, wisconsingunowners.org, and Wyoming Gun Owners.


For our Canadian listeners, and their supporters, join the Canadian Shooting Sports Association and the Canadian National Firearms Association.  If YOUR state or local organization isn’t read each episode, then send us an email and we’ll add them!


Rob: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast.  John, Paul, Susan and I will be at the Gun Rights Policy Conference this weekend.  That means we’ll record again next Wednesday and post the podcast next Saturday if things go according to plan.  Until next time… stay safe,

Rachel: be aware,

John: and we’ll see you down the road.


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