Episode 490 – Gina Roberts, News and DGUs


Paul: Welcome to the polite society podcast powered by the Firearms Policy Coalition recorded on April 8th. 2019, I’m Paul Lathrop

Rob: I’m Rob Morse and on tonight’s show we will talk with Gina Roberts about Gun Owners of San Diego and their new efforts to train people who are at physical risk of attack.

John: I’m John Richardson, and we’ll talk about non-impact on homicide rates of gun and mag bans.

Tracy: I’m Tracy Thronburg, and we’ll hear about Oregonians turning out in full force to protest anti-gun laws.

Amy: I’m Amy Dillon and we will look at a renewal of a bill that expands the definition of “emotional distress”

Gary: I’m Gary Daugherty and in DGUs we’ll say it again, don’t mess with the old guy.. so climb aboard

Grant: strap in

John : and hang on!

Paul:  episode 490 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.

Show intro music.

Personal news from each participant (when you are done with your segment please ask the next person what has been up with them)

Rob- Bill Frady and I talked about Self-Defense Gun Stories.  That was on his Lock and Load Radio program and I recorded another Episode of Self-Defense Gun Stories.

John – Since the last show, I must admit, I haven’t done much with guns. I did successfully reassemble the innards of my Mossberg 500 – thank you YouTube – and found out that the screws for the picatinny rail were too large for my earlier model. I’m waiting to receive new smaller screws so that I can mount the red dot.


Amy –  I just moved to Wilmington, North Carolina from South Carolina. I already found my local shooting ranges, and went shooting. I took my NC Concealed Carry Class and am in the process of obtaining my NC CCW Instructor certification and waiting for my permit. I will be starting to teach some classes at Montgomery College in Troy, NC this Summer and will be writing some articles for Guns.com. I am headed to Indy for NRA Show April 26th-28th, where I will be at the 5.11 Tactical booth and also in the Concealed Carry Fashion Show Saturday night.

Rob- Amy, isn’t it interesting that you can carry with your old permit.. Until you get your new drivers license?

John – Welcome to the Tar Heel State! BTW my dad was born in Troy and I still have cousins there.

Paul – Under no circumstances are you allowed to root for Duke

Tracy – Last week, Becky Dolgener and I taught two ladies’ only classes at KR Training. We had eight ladies basic pistol skills 1 and 6 for basic pistol skills 2. The ladies were troopers and shot in less-than-ideal circumstances. We’re hoping to teach this twice a year going forward. This weekend I’ll be at the annual A Girl and A Gun National Conference, where I’ll be teaching as a representative of the Massad Ayoob group, teaching Persuader (Kubotan), and our own John Edeen will be my lovely assistant instructor.

Paul – You said a cold front came through, how cold was the cold front?

Grant  – is girl and a gun a parallel org to The Well Armed Woman?

Grant – I taught a great private class for an extended family that provided an introduction to Handgun *and* to TASER. These classes are always fun to do because they are a bit different from the norm. People just *love* TASER! The conductive targets they provide are a lot of fun! On a personal note, our younger son just had his 30th Birthday!

Paul/Susan carried every day (disarmament dance) and really working hard on the live NRA broadcast at the ACLDN booth.

Promo about upcoming training classes here.

Tracy – Lee Weems will be at KR Training June 29-30 teaching social levergun/shotgun manipulations and deliberate speed pistol. I’ll be teaching a MAG-20 live fire on September 7-8. Massad Ayoob, himself, will be at KR Training the following weekend, September 14-15, teaching the MAG-20 classroom. For more information, please visit www.krtraining.com.

Grant – we have all of our upcoming classes at www dot scotshot dot com. Come join us for USCCA Instructor, and NRA Pistol and Rifle Instructor. We also have National Train a Teacher Day on July 20th, so if you’re a trainer and want to offer a class, or a teacher/or other K1-12 staff, or a girl or boy scout leader, or a Sunday School teacher, then please check out the event Facebook page, here:   https://www.facebook.com/groups/1796539570640730/

Ask listeners to listen to other shows on the network, name at least 2 shows.


2- News


Hi everyone. Please remember to send your comments on the news to “onair@politicsandguns.com”




A study published in the scientific literature recently has concluded what gun owners have always known – banning so-called “assault weapons”, and limiting magazine capacity, does not affect the homicide rate.

The study was headed by Professor Michael Spiegel and Boston University, together with prominent Harvard University gun control advocate, David Hemenway. Their study, which you can read from the link in the show notes, determined that those gun control measures most favored by Democrat politicians are not effective measures to lower homicide rates.

Speigel stated, “Laws regulating the sale of assault weapons are unlikely to have a large impact on homicide rates, because these weapons are used in only a very small proportion of homicides. The vast majority of firearm homicides in the United States are committed with handguns.”

Spiegel also showed that household gun ownership was not associated with homicide *or* suicide rates, which of course runs counter to what we always hear, that firearms in the home increase risk.

So all of that sounds great, right? It supports what we have always said… Well, let’s hold on just a minute and ask of they found anything that *does* decrease homicide and/or suicide rates?

The purpose of the study was to analyze the effect of 10 different firearm laws and total Homicide and suicide rates across all 50 states, in the years between 1991 and 2016. They looked at 1222 homicides and 1300 suicides. We just heard what they did *not* find, what about things they *did* find.

In their “Key Results” section, they say:

   (i)    Universal background checks were associated with a 14.9% reduction in overall     homicides (range 5.2 – 23.6%);

   (ii)    “Shall Issue” ccw laws were associated with a 9% *increase* in homicides (range     1.1-17.4%)

Further, in an interview about the study, Speigel said the the three most important things to reduce (airquotes) “gun violence” are: universal background checks, prohibition of gun ownership by anyone with a felony or misdemeanor history of violence and red flag laws.

So, while there are strong positives in this study, there are serious negatives too – it promotes the introduction of a mechanism that culls due process for otherwise law abiding Americans.

Rob- That study contradicts other studies I’ve seen.


John – Are the homicides associated with CCWs murders or are they justified self-defense homicides?

Grant- the thing that is most interesting is that firearms rights advocates are pushing this study because of its negativity on gun and magazine bans – it’s clear to see how this will be spun.

Paul – Universal background checks can never work even with a registry. All it takes is a bad guy with a record to ask his girlfriend who doesn’t have a record to buy the gun. Until prosecutors charge AND publicize the charges of straw purchasers bad guys will continue to get guns from gun stores. Let’s also remember that purchases from gun stores aren’t the major way that criminals get guns.






Pennsylvania State Law has long prohibited municipalities from regulating the ownership or possession of firearms or ammunition. However, this has not stopped the all-democrat city council from passing a package of three anti-gunrights laws by 6-to-3, and sending them to the Mayor, and so setting up a direct and open challenge to State Law.

Mayor Bill Peduto seems keen to sign them into law. The State Governor, Democrat Tom Wolf, is completely behind the Mayor. The laws were proposed and voted upon, following the murders at a city synagogue  in 2018.

Councilman Corey O’Connor, who led the bills, said that he was “..happy to take a stand,” commenting that people are starting to become more open to some sort of gun control. The laws provide for bans on AR-15s, red-flag confiscations and magazine capacity restrictions.. all the usual knee-jerk stuff, brought into play by people who generally, are unfamiliar with firearms.

Pro-gun advocates are preparing suits to block the laws and criminal complaints for abuse of office and other charges.

This isn’t the first time Pittsburgh has tried to subvert the State Preemption Laws.  In 1993 they tried to enforce an assault weapons ban, but this was almost immediately quashed by the State Legislature and Supreme Court.

Nonetheless, a representative of the Bloomberg Red-Shirts said, “They can’t stand around and wait…”, praising the city council, while a local gun owner said, “My guns are not hurting anyone… you just want to control people and take their rights away.”

Rob- Philadelphia is Pennsylvania’s Chicago.





Leftist gun grabbers in the Oregon Legislature got it handed to them recently.

A small Bill, SB 978, was originally presented to allow the State Police to conduct a study of illegal gun transfers. It was less than 1/2 a page long. Soon, it magically acquired forty-four pages of amendments.

These included: a minimum age for firearm and ammunition sales, that could be 21 (and includes components, spares accessories etc); mandatory use of firearms locks and a humungous list of things that took up 44 pages of vaguely-defined restrictions and new illegalities.

Oregon Firearms Federation put out a call for members to come to the hearing and they did that in droves. Hundreds of them showed up. This was very clear from the sheet of people who requested to testify. There were three pages of anti gunners and demanding mommies and a whopping fourteen pages from the pro-gun side.

The local newspaper  described the scene: Onlookers and testifiers lined up well in advance of the hearings for the Senate in the morning and the House in the afternoon. Two additional rooms were needed. When these were filled, people gathered round televisions outside the chambers, where chairs had been set up.

A second session on the bill is scheduled for April 8th, today.

Rob- you must be present to win.

John – I wish more were like Illinois with witness slips.








The Violence Against Women Act, which expired back in February, was recently renewed in the House of Representatives and sent forward to the US Senate. However, there is a twist. The Bill is not only renewed, it is expanded to advance the Democrat anti-gun agenda.

There was bipartisan support to renew the Bill in February, in its then current form. However, it was allowed to lapse so that new anti-gun language could be inserted. This language is being used to expand the numbers of people that are vulnerable to having their 2nd amendment rights withdrawn, for less and less serious crimes.

Now, action can be taken against people who have non-violent misdemeanor convictions (which often do not require trial by a jury) such as  “stalking” or “emotional distress”. In addition, the legislation is retrospective, meaning that although the bill passed out of the house in 2019, convictions of the expanded set of crimes and misdemeanors before that, would be included. So in principle, someone could have their firearms withdrawn for something that happened 2, 5 or even 10 years ago.

The general trend is easy to see. The Dems are creating more and more classes of people who are prohibited from exercising their rights under the Second Amendment;  and less and less serious offenses are being used to take Second Amendment rights from people.

Paul – This has not yet been assigned a committee in the Senate. It’s likely to go to the judiciary committee and die there. Remember that a republican controlled house repealed obamacare numerous times and the senate

John – There are too many Federal laws that really have no constitutional basis. The Commerce Clause is probably the basis.

Rob- I’m proud to work with my fellow criminals, since everyone on this show has caused emotional distress.




Rob- Gun Quotes

“Make no mistake about it. Gun control is not about crook control. It’s about America control. “Professor Derrick Grayson

More: http://www.catb.org/esr/fortunes/rkba.html


Hang on everybody, we’ll be back with our guest Gina Roberts.


3- Interview 1 – Gina Roberts

Gina is a dedicated Second Amendment Advocate, a tactical and competitive shooter, and an expert in firearms and ammunition manufacture. She has competed Nationally and Internationally using rifle, pistol, shotgun, .50 Caliber Rifle, High Power Rifle, Precision

rifle, and three gun. She is an instructor at the largest firearms instruction institute in the world and works to train women and marginalized groups in her local community.

She is active in Local, State and National politics, and is on her local Republican Central Committee and is President of her local Log Cabin Republican group, the LGBT wing of the GOP, and proudly represents women and the LGBT community with the DC Project.  She is a founding board member of San Diego County Gun Owners PAC.

4- Interview 2

5- DGUs  (at beginning) These discussions are NOT legal advice. Some of us are trainers, but this is not formal training and YOU NEED formal training. The Defensive Gun Use segment is intended as information, NOT as training. As always the opinions of the hosts are only their own opinions and not those of any sponsors or other affiliations.

Grant – Doo-Kane, Pennsylvania

We will repeat it again, in case you haven’t been paying attention.  Don’t mess with the old guy.

73 year old Crosby Marshall was driving for a ride share when he picked up a 33 year old man and a female passenger.  He had a feeling something was wrong when he was directed down an alley then told to stop his SUV suddenly.

“I turned around when he said he was going to rob me, then he hit me with the gun,” Marshall said.

The impact left Marshall bleeding.  He managed to get out of the car. The female passenger ran from the scene but the man stayed and pointed his gun at him.

“I was backed in a corner,” said Marshall.  That is when Marshall fired his defensive handgun three times.  The robber / assailant was killed by Marshall’s shots.

Marshall has a permit to carry and is not charged.

“I just had to do what I had to do,” said Marshall. “I’m just happy to be here.”



John – It goes to show the importance of practicing your drawl


Tracy -Maricopa, Arizona

The Maricopa Police Department received a call around 7 PM of a man entering a residence.  That man was seen wandering around the Cobblestone Farms neighborhood where he lives. He was telling people that others were out to kill him.

He walked into a neighbor’s house and was told to leave immediately.  Next, he walked to another house and entered through an unlocked side door.  He took a can of food and went into the home’s garage and threw the can through a window.  Then exited the house through that window, cutting his leg.

His leg bleeding from the glass in the window, he approached a home on the same road and tried to gain entry through a sliding glass door.  The door was locked. He saw the homeowner sitting in the living room and started pounding on the glass door and yelling to be let in because people were trying to kill him.

The man, who was in his 60’s, yelled at him to go away, then ran to the bedroom to grab a gun.  While he was gone from the living room, the man broke through the door and entered the home. The man confronted him and shot him in the arm then retreated to a bathroom and called 911.

The man, now bleeding from the gunshot wound in the arm and the cuts on this leg, went to the garage and lifted the door enough to crawl under.  The residents of the first home found him and pinned him down until police arrived.

He was transported for treatment of his wounds and was arrested.  He did appear to be impaired but blood tests had not come back to state what substance was causing the impairment.

Grant – not to judge, but this does sound like the intruder may not have been in full control

Paul –


John – San Antonio, Texas

A woman reported to deputies that around midnight, he heard someone trying to break in through the front door of her home.

She confronted a 44 year old man and began fighting with him.  The intruder got past her and went to the bedroom where her husband was located.  The two men started fighting which resulted in her husband shooting the attacker.

A short time later, deputies were called to a nearby home where a man claimed to having been shot by an unknown person.  They were able to connect him with the home invasion.

He is now facing charges for the home invasion.


Amy – Spokane, Washington

In the south hill area of Spokane, people look out for each other.

John Hoffman was returning home from work when he noticed a suspicious person in this neighborhood.  He made eye contact with the person, just trying to make him think that someone was watching him. He thought it would make the man to keep on walking.

He turned his van around and saw the 26 year old man reaching for a package on his neighbor’s porch.

When he confronted the package thief, the thief claimed to know the people inside the home.

Hoffman told him, “No, you’re going to wait right here.  I’m going to call police and we’ll figure this out.”

That’s when the thief decided it was time to leave.

Hoffman grabbed him and threw him to the ground.  The suspect tried to create some chaos by yelling, “Help, He’s coming after me!”

While the two were scuffling, the criminal reached for his pocket.  He turned on Hoffman and pulled a knife.

Little did the knife wielding thug know but Hoffman had something in his pocket in the form of a .38 caliber pocket pistol.

The thief decided bringing a knife to a gun fight was not the best thing and ran from the scene.

The man was identified from the vehicles interior camera.  He had been arrested a few months earlier for vehicle prowling.

“Either way we’re paying for it I guess,” Hoffman said. “Either they are in the system and we’re paying for it, or they’re out here stealing packages and we’re paying for it.”

The man had ditched his knife and eventually ran off. Spokane police arrested him shortly after.

He was booked for assault and attempted theft.


Paul – WE ARE NOT THE POLICE- It can be very dangerous to confront criminals

Rob- In Seattle, the police are not the police. This criminal will be prosecuted for neither theft

Paul – Albuquerque, New Mexico

Crime does not pay.  And for one robber, it also put him into the hospital.

The 27 year old robber walked into an Albuquerque Little Caesar’s wearing a mask and orange gloves.  He pulled out a gun, demanded money and left with $9. He didn’t get far.

A Little Caesar employee pursued the robber outside and shot him several times.  He hit him once. He still had his apron on.

The employee told deputies he was scared for his life and didn’t want him to try and hurt someone as he ran away.

After being shot, he fell to the ground screaming for help and an identified person assisted him into a waiting vehicle.  The $9 was left laying on the ground. The driver dropped the injured criminal at a nearby Motel 6. That was where police found him.

He had the same clothes on as during the robbery but claimed that he had been shot outside the motel.

However, there was not crime scene and not reports of gunfire nearby.  He could not be questioned further because he was headed into the OR.

The employee was not identified and the complaint does not say where he got the gun or if he is still employed by the store.  Little Caesars would not comment on the story. The story didn’t identify if this is a company owned store or a franchise store.

Grant – ok where did the other bullets go? SEveral minus one equals several

Paul – was it worth it for $9


We post each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com  Please take a minute and share them with a friend.


6- E-mail, blog notes, and show close

Listener e-mail discussion


Rob- Hi all,

Love the podcast and have been listening for several years now.

You were talking about FOID cards and husbands and wives having cards in case one passes away, the other isn’t obligated to turn over the guns within the mandated ten days after the death.  In the socialist republic of NY, (not NYC) we don’t have the FOID cards, but we are required to have a permit and the serial numbers are recorded. We also have the ten day or two week requirement to turn in pistols after the gun owner passes away.  We do have the option to co-register the pistols on another persons permit, either a spouse, relative to friend.

You also talked about taking back the narrative. Instead of assault rifles, we should refer to them as modern sporting rifles. Which many podcast do.  But the other one that we need to change is “gun violence.” We all know that the gun is just an inanimate object and that it’s the person who commits the evil against others.  So I would suggest that it be referred to as “human violence.”

Thanks, and keep up the good work!


Rob- What about minor children?

John – I answered a reporter from Huffington Post on this. I objected to term Gun Violence. I said was the criminal misuse of a firearm.

Grant – The point about narrative control is also a very good one – our opposition is very good at being on message, while those on our side are not, and often will contradict one another.

Paul – This was covered on the last show, but re-read here so those who weren’t on that show are able to comment.


Hello all,

Something struck me with the recent amount of states giving their citizens what they should already have in constitutional carry. My question is, do they lose the right to carry in states that don’t have that? I know there was a change for Ohio residents when the governor allowed active military members under 21 to get their concealed carry license for pistol last year. or maybe without a background check. I don’t remember the details. The result was I think we lost some reciprocity with some states for our CHL holders. I can look for more details about our state and that issue, but my main question is the same.



John- I think it depends on the state and how they handle reciprocity. They may have a CCW from a Utah or FL.

Rob- Yes, so many states are looking for an excuse. For some it is an excuse to recognize rights, and for some it is an excuse to narrow their reciprocity.


Paul: Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?

Rob- I’m writing an article about truth in advertising. It isn’t the NRA that is selling fear, it is the gun-ban advocates. We know the rates of crime and there isn’t an epidemic of criminals misusing guns. The media wants us to believe that honest gun owners are the real threat..and it isn’t true.

My articles are up at Clash Daily, at Ammoland and at my blog, slow facts dot wordpress dot com.  John, tell us what’s new at your blog no lawyers only guns and money.

I’ve only had one post since we last recorded. It is about the failure of the Supreme Court to issue a stay to the bump stock ban rule. I would note that Justices Gorsuch and Thomas would have issued the stay. So, for now, your option is turn it in to BATFE IF you were covered by the stay with the government’s promise to not destroy it until the case is finally finished, destroy it per BATFE instructions, or lose it in a “boating accident”. It is a sad state of affairs when a supposed supporter of the Second Amendment has done more harm than the avowed enemy we had in Obama.

That and more is at only guns and money dot blogspot dot com.

Paul – Published my first post for 2Anews.us Federally our gun rights are not threatened for now. My next post is still in the earliest stages, but it will focus on the positive side of gun ownership.

Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast.  I’d like to thank Gina Roberts for joining us today. So for Amy, Tracy, Belle, Dana, Douglas, Gary, John, Rachel, Susan, Grant and Rob,

(Paul, stop talking now)

Rob: Until the next time…

Gary: stay safe,

Tracy: be aware,

John: and we’ll see you down the road.

Episode 489


Paul: Welcome to the polite society podcast powered by the Firearms Policy Coalition recorded on Thursday, April 4th, 2019, I’m Paul Lathrop.

Rob: I’m Rob Morse and on tonight’s show we will talk with Craig DeLuz of 2A News.

John: I’m John Richardson, and we’ll talk about a decision out of California striking down their standard cap mag ban… so climb aboard.

Rob: strap in

John : and hang on!

Paul:  episode 489 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.

Show intro music.

Personal news from each participant (when you are done with your segment please ask the next person what has been up with them)

Rob- I went to the Rangemaster Tactical Conference. I talked with Bill Frady on his Lock and Load Radio program. I recorded another Episode of Self-Defense Gun Stories and I carried every day. I have books from Chris Bird and Karl Rehn to read and review.

John – I spent last weekend working on my deer hunting property. I’m cutting shooting lanes, building a ground blind, and getting it ready for food plots. I did find out you end up using muscles that you don’t normally use even if you use a chainsaw! Soon it will be time to start some plantings and to put up deer trail cams.

A little factoid – Orwell’s 1984 starts out on April 4th, 1984.


Promo about upcoming training classes here.

Ask listeners to listen to other shows on the network, name at least 2 shows.


2- News


Hi everyone. Please remember to send your comments on the news to “onair@politicsandguns.com”




In a decision that may well be important across the whole country, Judge Roger Benitez, of the US District Court for the Southern District of California has determined that the California ban on  normal capacity magazines violates the Second Amendment.

The case is Duncan v Becerra and it has been in the making since the ban was originally introduced in 2008.

Judge Benitez had originally suspended the enforcement of the law on the basis that it violated the second amendment and rights of due process. The decision was sent to a three-judge panel of the 9th Circuit for Appeal. However, they agreed with the Judge and returned the case to him for final ruling.

In that final ruling, issued March 29th, Judge Benitez completely invalidated California’s 10-round magician capacity, saying “individual liberty and freedom are not outmoded concepts.”

His decision has been described as scholarly and comprehensive, by Chris Cox of the NRA, who helped fund the case. The 86-page decision is full of powerful arguments in favor of using firearms in self defense, as well as an excellent summary of the history of self-defense firearms use.

While the State will almost certainly appeal this latest ruling to an en banc hearing of the full 9th circuit court, this very strong judicial statement in favor of the 2nd Amendment will provide precedent for similar cases in other states.

One of the most interesting consequences about the ruling, is that it is once again legal to buy magazines that hold more than 10 rounds, and apparently they are selling like hotcakes!

John – As of this afternoon, Judge Benitez has issued a partial stay of his order pending the appeal by the state of California. Greater than 10 round magazines possessed, bought, etc between March 29 and 5:30pm on April 5th are still protected by the permanent injunction.

Rob- I enjoyed the simple declarative statements from the Judge.

John – Judge Benitez was born in Havana, Cuba. I think this may be why he has such an appreciation for the Second Amendment.






Colorado joins many states this week, by passing a red flag law, putting it en route to the Governor’s Desk.

The Colorado Senate passed HB19-1177 by a single vote and against the strong opposition  of the state’s police and Sheriff departments, city councils, city police chiefs and even Denver and Aurora police unions.

The bill contains the latest escalation of liberals against gun owners.. a type of search warrant only applicable to gun owners. The so-called Civil Search Warrant would be issued along with the red flag order. This means that the first contact between law enforcement and the accused would be the police arriving with a search warrant and the goal to confiscate firearms.

While all red flag laws are blatant infringements of due process, the Colorado one actually allows people to simply call their accusation in on the phone. The range of people who can call one in is also very wide: family members and spouses, former family members and spouses, intimate partners and former intimate partners, roommates and former roommates, grandparents, stepparents, stepchildren, step siblings and anyone in law enforcement. Accusations can include even talking about buying a firearm.

Multiple Colorado counties have declared themselves as firearm sanctuaries, with sheriffs refusing to enforce recent anti-gun laws. In fact, one Sheriff has made a formal statement that he would rather go to jail than confiscated legal firearms without due process. Weld County Sheriff Steve Reams said, “It’s a matter of doing what’s right.”

Rob- Bloomberg said, go local. Gun owners said, watch this. No due process.



John – The one proposed in North Carolina includes dating partners.



After the horrific mass murder in a mosque in Christchurch, New Zealand, the government moved swiftly to capitalize on the nation’s disgust and changed the gun licensing laws to outlaw the ownership of almost all semi-automatic firearms, pistols, rifles and shotguns; pump action shotguns are also included.

The New Zealand Prime Minister is known to be profoundly anti-gun and a keen advocate of the UN civilian disarmament movement. She is also obviously an advice of the Rahm Emanuel school of never letting a good crisis go to waste when there’s an opportunity to shrink citizen rights.

Of course, firearms ownership is strictly regulated in New Zealand – even the Nation’s chief police officer took a moment to remind people that firearms ownership was a “privilege, not a right”, after the atrocity.

Well he has wasted no time in enforcing the new ban. He has sent his officers unannounced to people’s homes and even workplaces, to interview firearms license holders about the guns that the own and their plans for securing them until they can be retrieved or surrendered.

If passed, the NZ gun ban will take effect on April 12th, and New Zealanders will have until September 30th to surrender their guns.

John – Socialist gotta socialist. Adern used to be the president of Int Union of Young Socialists. They also give free speech as a privilege with the Chief Censor ordering the arrest of anyone passing on the manifesto.


John- I just read today that a college president said free speech doesn’t belong on campus.






This summary from our own John Richardson.

In a 2-to-1 decision, the US Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia, ruled  against the plaintiffs Guedes and Codrea in two separate cases, denying to grant a preliminary injunction of the ATF’s bump stock rule.

While the two Obama era appointed justices Millett and Srinivasan agreed with the lower court that the plaintiffs were unlikely to win at trial, Judge Henderson disagreed.

In her dissent, she said that a bump stock does not meet the statutory definition of a machine gun and that she would have granted the injunction. She concluded that a bump stock, “does not change the movement of the trigger itself, which must be released, reset and pulled rearward before a subsequent round can be fired.” Thus, it meets the definition of semi-automatic fire, not fully-automatic fire.

She concluded that the bump stock rule therefore expands the definition of a machine gun beyond the statutory one.




John – A motion for a stay pending appeal to the Supreme Court has been sent to CJ John Roberts. Bear in mind the Circuit Ct issued a stay only to the plaintiffs.


John- Gun Quotes

Grant suggests – “As for gun control advocates, I have no hope whatever that any facts whatever will make the slightest dent in their thinking – or lack of thinking”. Thomas Sowell

Hang on everybody, we’ll be back with our guest (Craig Deluz).


3- Interview 1 Craig DeLuz

4- Interview 2

5- DGUs  (at beginning) These discussions are NOT legal advice. Some of us are trainers, but this is not formal training and YOU NEED formal training. The Defensive Gun Use segment is intended as information, NOT as training. As always the opinions of the hosts are only their own opinions and not those of any sponsors or other affiliations.

Paul – Show Low, Arizona

On a Friday night, a homeowner and his wife were in the living room when they heard someone banging on their kitchen door.  The pounding was so hard, they were surprised the glass hadn’t broke.

The homeowner found that the person was “looking” for his girlfriend.  He told him multiple times that the person he was searching for was not there and told him to leave.

The young man broke the pet door and reached up, trying to unlock the door knob.  The homeowner grabbed his arm to stop him. The suspect pulled away and backed away.  He then picked up some large rocks and started throwing them at the house.

One of the rocks broke a window in the door.

After the homeowner warned the suspect that he was armed and he would shoot, the man became an intruder.  He reached through the broken window to unlock the door.

As he opened the back door, the homeowner fired at him.  Inflicting a leg wound on the intruder, he continued to crawl into the house.  The homeowner held the man down until deputies arrived.

On their arrival, they reported that the suspect was belligerent and refused to be identified.  The investigation was ongoing and charges were pending.


Rob- Drugs and Alcohol are not your friend

Paul- Pet door?


Rob- Hot Springs, Arkansas

It’s over when she says it’s over.

The woman had broken up with the suspect a few days earlier and was at her mother’s home.  It was late afternoon when the ex-boyfriend showed up and broke into her mother’s home. At the same time, her ex-husband was there dropping off their 2 year old son.

She had told the ex-boyfriend not to come over.  He told her he was coming over and didn’t care if she called the cops.

The abuser pulled his truck into the yard and struck a corner post of the chain-link fence.  This bent the post and cashed the fence to shift towards the house.

Her mother went out to meet him and tell him to leave.  He pushed past her and continued to the locked front door.  He began hitting and kicking the door as her mother walked up on the porch.  When she got to the door, they opened it to let her in.

With that opportunity, the attacker forced his way into the home.

The ex-husband had a pistol with him and pointed it at the intruder, who allegedly said, “Go ahead and shoot me.”  The ex-boyfriend then allegedly grabbed the ex-husband by the throat and shoved him against the wall. The two struggled over the gun and fell to the floor as the ex-girlfriend/wife tried to separate them.

When the 2-year-old started crying, the two separated and the intruder left and got back in his truck.  He left and was pulled over a short time later.

The police affidavit notes the damage to the post, fence and front door and the injuries suffered by the ex-husband.  The shoe prints on the door matched the ex’s boots and when confronted with threatening text messages he sent, he allegedly admitted it was “a possibility” he sent them.

The ex-husband told police he felt that he, his ex-wife, her mother and their son were in danger and the reasons he didn’t shoot him was because his son was in the room and some kids were playing basketball directly across the street.


Paul – If you own and carry a firearm are you really ready to use it? John YOU go first please

John – The ex-husband must have been aware of Rule 4 – know your target and what lies beyond it.


John – Miami-Dade County, Florida

We say don’t mess with the old guy, but I think the same could be said about not messing with the old gal as well.  Of course, we also say nothing good happens at 2 AM.

Pherrick Thomas responded to the knock at the back door to find a woman he knew.  As he was catching up, another man ran up to him with a rifle and told him, “Give me everything.”

Inside the home where he lives was also his grandmother and great-grandmother.  The two elderly women tried defending themselves from the invading pair. His grandmother grabbed a brick and fought back with the man with the gun.  Thomas was able to disarm and turn the gun on the invader.

“I turned the rifle around just in time,” he said. “I had enough strength from seeing them hit my grandmother to actually shoot the man.”

A police officer in the area heard the shots and responded immediately.

The two suspect left in a car but were captured by police a short time later.  A second man in the victim’s backyard but was not found.

The male suspect was taken to the hospital to be treated for gunshot wounds and the female was taken into custody.

Thomas suffered a few scratches and a gash above his eye during the incident.

“They weren’t strong enough, that’s all I can say,” he said. “The devil wasn’t strong enough tonight.”



Paul –

Rob- New Orleans, Louisiana

While the Waffle House has a no firearms policy for employees, we don’t know if they have a policy regarding employee’s using the bad guy’s gun on them.

Last week a man entered the Old Gentilly Road Waffle House at about 5 AM and handed the cashier a note demanding money and then brandished a “black” revolver with brown grips.  Evidently, the robber had not attended either Tracey or Belle’s handgun retention classes.

The cashier was able to disarm the robber, turning the revolver back on him.  The suspect fled on foot without his gun nor the money from the register.

He was described as a late 40’s light-skinned black male with a scar on the left side of his face and walking with a limp.  NOPD was still looking for him at the time of the news report.


Paul – Cave Junction, Oregon

In a case from November 2018, Oregon State Police ruled that a use of deadly force was justified after their investigation.

The 46 year-old decedent had driven to the R-Hogg-Farm Motorcycle Shop with an adult male passenger and fired a gun from inside his Ford Expedition.  The shot went through the front door, hit a glass case and ended up on the back of the shop. Evidence suggested that it was over a motorcycle in the store.

He then left the motorcycle shop and drove to the home of Christopher Lorne and arrived shortly after 7:30 AM.  He parked the SUV 10 to 15 feet from the home. The suspect then fired two shots from a “M-15” rifle at the home.

Lorne was woke up by the shots and looked out the bedroom windows.  He could see the attacker pointing the rifle in his direction.

While still in bed, Lorne got his .45 caliber handgun and fired four shots at the man.  Several of the shots hit the SUV but one also struck the man in the head. This shot was fatal.

He immediately called 911 to report the incident.

The passenger told police that he was asleep at the time the arrived at Lorne’s home and was woke up by the driver yelling profanities at the home.  He corroborated that two shots were fired at the house and someone inside the house returned fire.

The two men were acquainted and the dead man had lived on Lorne’s property.  The two had a dispute over the ownership of a motorcycle.

Analysis of urine during a post-mortem revealed the presence of methamphetamine, cyclobenzaprine, cannabinoids, and LSD.

Of course, this drug crazed idiot would be found in the gun control memorial web site.




John – The NY Times recently ran an article questioning the size of bullets.

John – Cartersville, Georgia

Sheriff’s deputies were called to a Cartersville home at 4:30 AM on March 25th.  The female victim was woke then the home intruder banged twice on her sun room porch’s locked door.  The third bang resulted in the door opening.

As the intruder entered the home, the victim armed herself and told the man to get out of her house multiple times.

She fired one shot at the criminal then hid in the hallway and waited for police to arrive.

When the first deputy arrived, he saw the man in the sun room.  He appeared to be going through the victim’s belongings. After ordering the man to put his hands up and exit the home slowly.

He was detained until backup arrived.

The criminal was charged with burglary – forced entry and transported to the Bartow County detention Center without incident.


We post each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com  Please take a minute and share them with a friend.


6- E-mail, blog notes, and show close

Listener e-mail discussion

Paul: Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?


My articles are up at Clash Daily, at Ammoland and at my blog, slow facts dot wordpress dot com.  John, tell us what’s new at your blog no lawyers only guns and money.

John – The news media has their narrative and they will pull quotes from interviews and other sources to reinforce the narrative even if they are out of context. In this case, Al Jazeera had a story implying that New Zealand firearms organizations were fully in support of the government’s ban on semi-automatic firearms. The headline said, “ “New Zealand gun lobby backs ban after Christchurch mosques attack” Fortunately, New Zealanders have a bit more spine than they are given credit for by Al Jazeera. The Council of Licensed Firearms Owners which is an umbrella organization of gun groups is against these changes and is pushing to avoid a rush to judgment. They have explicitly said “military style semi-auto rifles” should NOT be banned. However, you’d never know it from the Al Jazeera article.

That and more is at only guns and money dot blogspot dot com.

Facebook listeners group

Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast.  I’d like to thank (Craig DeLuz) for joining us today. So for Amy, Tracy, Belle, Dana, Douglas, Gary, John, Rachel, Susan, Grant and Rob,

(Paul, stop talking now)

Rob: Until the next time…

John: stay safe,

Paul: be aware,

John: and we’ll see you down the road.

Episode 485 – Minnesota Guns

Paul: Welcome to the polite society podcast powered by the Firearms Policy Coalition recorded on Thursday, February 28, 2019, I’m Paul Lathrop

Amy: I’m Amy Dillon, and we’ll talk about some big gun control bills in Congress this week!

Belle: I’m Belle McCormack, and CONNOR DANE and LEWIS DENNARD about Minnesota Gun Bills.

Susan: I’m Susan Lathrop and we’ll talk about some DGU’s .. so climb aboard

Belle: strap in

Amy : and hang on!

Paul:  episode 485 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.

Show intro music.

Personal news from each participant (when you are done with your segment please ask the next person what has been up with them)

Amy-Just a reminder of an upcoming fundraiser 3-Gun match June 7th-9th in Burnet, Texas at Reveille Peak Ranch. Details to sign up and more are shared on the “DC Project Team Match” facebook page as well as on https://www.pro3gunner.com/

Belle – Had a successful Handgun Retention class last weekend and getting ready for more classes this weekend. That’s pretty much going to be my story for the rest of the training season.


Ask listeners to listen to other shows on the network, name at least 2 shows.




2- News

POLITE SOCIETY NEWS, February 28th 2019

Hi everyone. Please remember to send your comments on the news to “onair@politicsandguns.com”




When the Democrats took control of the Congressional House of Representatives, Speaker Pelosi made it clear that gun control would be one of her highest priorities.

This week two, or possibly three, gun control bills will go to the House Floor for a vote. These are House Bills H.R.8, H.R.1112 and the possible H.R. 1263. You should read the texts of these Bills, they are in the show notes

Yesterday, the House passed H.R.8 by 240 votes to 190. Other votes will come soon.

H.R.8, is the ‘Bipartisan Background Checks Act of 2019.’ Its purpose is to require a background check through the Federal NICS system for every firearm sale. Its stated goal is to prevent ineligible persons from being able to buy a gun in a face-to-face sale between two persons resident in the same state. It exempts sales and gifts between immediate family members, temporary transfers at firing ranges, on hunting trips and other places, and temporary transfers in cases of life-threatening need.

As we noted last week, the current 4473 form already has a provision for this and ATF has been preparing for this law since 2013.

Eight Republicans voted with the Democrat majority to pass the Bill. They are:

Peter King (NY), Brian Fitzgerald (PA), Brian Mast (FL), Fred Upton (MI), Christopher Smith (NJ), Vern Buchanan (FL), Will Hurd (TX) and Mario Diaz Balart (FL).

H.R.1112 is the ‘Enhanced Background Checks Act of 2019.’ It will remove the so-called NICS 3-day rule. This Bill also enlarges the scope of disqualifying mental health issues from the current “adjudicated as a mental defective” to “adjudicated with mental illness, severe developmental disability, or severe emotional stability”. This Bill passed today, 128 to 198.

Finally, H.R.1263 seeks to classify all semi-automatic rifles that are capable of accepting detachable magazines as FFA items, akin to fully automatic firearms.

The President has said he will veto these bills if they come to his desk. We will be discussing HR 1112 and HR 1263 as they come up for voting.

Here at Polite Society Podcast, we think that criminals don’t get their guns legally. Universal Background Checks for law-abiding gun owners are the necessary prelude to Universal Gun Registration, which itself is the tool for Universal Gun Confiscation. The cynical among us might think that the Democrats *are* coming for our guns. Contact your congress-critters!



Paul – HR 1112 is possibly the most egregious of the 3. Although HR1263 is almost as bad.




Way back in the summer of 2018, the notoriously liberal 9th Circuit Court of Appeals ruled in a three judge panel, in favor of allocate George Young, of Hawaii.

In brief, the 2 – 1 decision argued that, since Hawaii had effectively prohibited concealed carry of handguns outside one’s home, that open carry was legal and constitutional.

The State appealed, and the 9th Circuit agreed to rehear the case before an 11-member ‘en banc’ panel.

Now, the court has decided to wait for the decision from the New York pistol transport case currently before the Supreme Court, with oral arguments scheduled for October.

So, Mr Young will most likely need to wait well into 2020 to hear his case argued. His lawyers have filed a motion against this latest delay. They note that Mr Young has been in the appeals process for over six years and that it could be eighteen months before his case is heard en banc.

Naturally, the Hawaii authorities have filed papers against Mr Young’s latest motion – they want to keep him out of court as long as possible.

A right delayed, is a right DENIED.






We have talked before about the draconian provisions in the Washington state I-1639 affair, and how many of Washington’s County Sheriffs have come out and said that they will not enforce these provisions.

This considered opinion has had some snowflakes’ undergarments in a less than linear configuration.

One such wee laddie, 23 year old Jaydin H.W. Ledford (a self-professed Marxist), was so irritated that he posted to his Facebook page, “I-1639 is the law. Sheriffs that are non-compliant will be shot. By me.”

Another equally aggravated person posted, that Spokane county Sheriff Ozzie Knezovich, “.. is gonna get a bullet in his skull.”

Grant County Sheriff Tom Jones also announced that his department would not allow the initiative, and that this solicited Facebook comments such as “I am going to kill every single one of them”, referencing Republicans.

Five days after posting, the Sheriff’s office announced that it was investigating and shortly thereafter Ledford got a knock on his door and was peacefully taken into custody.

Initially, he was charged with a state crime, a class three Felony Harassment, that could win him up to five years in prison and a fine of $10,000. However his wins just kept on coming as he was almost immediately handed over to the local FBI Joint Terrorism Task Force and is now under consideration to be charged with Federal crimes.

Last week we talked about the violence that is brewing on the left side of the spectrum. Here, we see it again. Hoax or not, FBI takes threats seriously.





Gun Quotes

“It’s more important to have a gun in your hand than a cop on the phone.” Sheriff Grady Judd, Polk County, Florida.

More: http://www.catb.org/esr/fortunes/rkba.html


Hang on everybody, we’ll be back with our guest (Name).


3- Interview 1

4- Interview 2

5- DGUs  (at beginning) These discussions are NOT legal advice. Some of us are trainers, but this is not formal training and YOU NEED formal training. The Defensive Gun Use segment is intended as information, NOT as training. As always the opinions of the hosts are only their own opinions and not those of any sponsors or other affiliations.

Dubuque, Iowa

When you hear your front door being slammed into at 12:30 AM, something isn’t right.  Better practice your POGO.

When the Dubuque homeowner heard just that, he got his handgun and went to the entrance of the home.  Three thugs broke open the door and he confronted them as they entered the home. As it turned out, they were at the wrong house in more ways than one.

When they realized the homeowner was armed, they made a quick exit from the home.  As it turned out, the man they wanted to confront and assault was not the man that lived at this house.

All three 20 year old thugs were arrested a short time later and have been charged with second-degree burglary.

Paul – perfect DGU


Layton, Utah

You would think that a police officer would know better.  An Idaho Falls, Idaho police officer appears to have lost track of how to handle things.

Last week the officer entered the home in Layton, Utah to confront the homeowner “about a relationship he believed the man was having with his ex-girlfriend,” police reported.

A physical altercation between the two men ensued and the homeowner ended the altercation by shooting the man several times.  Following the shooting, the homeowner called 911. The Idaho man died at the hospital.

The Idaho Falls man had joined the police force in 2015.  Last October he was involved in a domestic violence incident according to court records.  The following day, the Idaho Falls Police learned of the incident which had occurred while he was off-duty.  They sent him home at that time. 2 days later he was back at work on desk duty.

In November he was placed on administrative leave.  In December he was charged with attempted strangulation and assault.  At the time of the shooting, he was still on administrative leave and an internal investigation was ongoing.

The homeowner was cooperating with investigators and his name had not been released.

This accused domestic abuser and home invader was found in the gun control memorial website.

Paul – but only the police and military should have guns!


Jackson County, Georgia

It was just after noon on a February Tuesday when the 79 year old woman called 911.  While she was on the phone with the dispatcher, a 20 year old suspect broke into her home.

She is frantic when she tells the dispatcher, “They’re trying to get in the back door.  Hurry. Hurry. Please.”

When asked where in the house she was, she replied that she was in the kitchen watching the door they are trying to get in.  When they broke the glass in the door, she started shouting.

“Okay, come on! I got something for you!!”

The 911 dispatcher tried to get her not to confront the man when the recording picks up the sound of a gunshot.  This only persuaded the intruder to try another door. He broke in anyway.

For nearly 10 minutes, she gave play-by-play to 911.  As he ransacked another part of the home, she talked with 911 and was prepared with her handgun.

While she was on the call and the man was ransacking her home, she was praying.  The man had gone up and outside staircase and entered the home on the second floor.

She shouted defiantly at the burglar.  “I am waiting on ya’, come on. When you come down those stairs, I’m gonna blow your damn brains out!”  She fired her pistol again.

“Ma’am, are you shootin’ at him again?”

“Yes, ma’am”

He finally tried to hide in an upstairs closet, now afraid of the 79 year-old woman.

The burglar cowered in the closet until deputies arrived and arrested him.

The sheriff told the woman’s daughter that the man had medical issues and needed prescription medication.

“Looking back on it, I thank God that he found my mother, and not someone else, because he could have been dead now,” the daughter reflected.

The suspect was being held in county jail without bond facing several charges.

Paul 10 minutes on the phone with 911 and no police


Baker County, Oregon

It seems a week for Idaho criminals going outside the state to get involved in DGU’s.

Lessie and Olive Phillips noticed a unfamiliar car parked in the driveway of their neighbors home.  Lessie called the neighbors who only use the residence part time and confirmed that the house should be empty.

Olive Phillips took his shotgun and when to the neighbor’s house.  He ordered the trespassers to leave.

He then held the male and female at gunpoint until sheriff’s deputies arrived.

The male from Meridian, Idaho and the female from Boise had apparently been in the residence for an extended period of time.

They were arrested and charged with burglary, criminal mischief and theft.

Paul – We are NOT the police


We post each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com  Please take a minute and share them with a friend.


6- E-mail, blog notes, and show close

Listener e-mail discussion

Facebook listeners group

Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast.  I’d like to thank (Guests) for joining us today. So for Amy, Tracy, Belle, Dana, Douglas, Gary, John, Rachel, Susan, Grant and Rob,

(Paul, stop talking now)

Amy: Until the next time…

SUE: stay safe,

BELLE: be aware,

PAUL: and we’ll see you down the road.

Episode 484 – Shelley Hill talks about The Mingle

Paul: Welcome to the polite society podcast powered by the Firearms Policy Coalition recorded on Wednesday, February 20th, 2019, I’m Paul Lathrop.

John: I’m John Richardson, and we’ll talk about the failure of background checks in Illinois.

Belle: I’m Belle McCormack, and we’ll be talking to Shelley Hill about the Women’s Mingle.

Gary: I’m Gary Daugherty and in one of our DGUs don’t bring pepper spray and a BB gun to a gunfight .. so climb aboard

Belle: strap in

John : and hang on!

Paul:  episode 484 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.

Show intro music.

Personal news from each participant (when you are done with your segment please ask the next person what has been up with them)

John – As I said on the last show, I’m cleaning up an older Mossberg 500. I’ve got it cleaned now and the bore just shines. I ordered a Wolff extra power spring and a S&J Hardware delrin follower. I plan to repaint it in some variety of tiger stripe just because I can. In other news, if anyone is into archery, Walmart is closing out a lot of their broadheads and other hunting stuff. I picked up some good deals this weekend. Finally, we celebrated my granddaughter Olivia’s 4th birthday this weekend. It seems like only yesterday that I was holding her as a newborn.


Belle – went on a little vacation from the snow here in Washington, went to AZ. Shot an IDPA match at the Pima pistol club and went a hell of a tourist run – Casa Grande Ruins, Kirchner Caves, Desert Botanical Garden light show, blues concert – some long needed fun and time off. Back to teaching this weekend – Retention.

Grant – well this week has brought some wonderful personal news, the Gallagher family welcomed its newest member, Mariana Nicole Gallagher who was born at 08.41 on February 14th and weighed in at 7 ½ pounds. She already has wavy black hair. On the shooting front I missed my usual Thursday night range night because of the new arrival, and on Saturday I taught our Florida/Arizona out-of-state permit class. So, all pretty quiet. Paul and Susan?


Promo about upcoming training classes here.

Grant – I’d like to mention that National Train a Teacher day is coming on July 20th. You can join the Facebook page, here:  https://www.facebook.com/groups/1796539570640730/   If you’re a teacher (and that includes kindergarten, K1-12, college or university) or you work at a school or college/university in any capacity (administrator, custodian etc), or a girl or boy scout leader, if you are part of a club or congregation, then join this facebook group to reach out to your local firearms and stop-the-bleed trainers to see what they are offering on that day. Any trainer attached to this group will provide your training free.  Also, you can reach out to Grant personally on NTATD-at-scotshot.com for help locating a class. Finally, you can see all the ScotShot training at the www.scotshot.com website, or by emailing me at : grant-at-scotshot-dot-com. We’re posting our NRA and USCCA Instructor classes this weekend.

Belle- March 16th and 17th Frank DeYoung from Threat Anatomy coming to teach

Energency Treatment of Gunshot Trauma https://firearmsacademy.com/other-topics/emergency-treatment-of-gunshot-wounds-related-trauma    and

Shot Placement https://firearmsacademy.com/other-topics/shot-placement-and-considerations-for-deadly-encounters

Call the office T-F, 9-4 360-978-6100 or got to our website https://firearmsacademy.com/

Gary? What’s going on with you?

Ask listeners to listen to other shows on the network, name at least 2 shows.


2- News

POLITE SOCIETY NEWS, February 20th 2019

Hi everyone. Please remember to send your comments on the news to “onair@politicsandguns.com”




The story is familiar – someone kills a number of people and after investigation, it turns out that he wasn’t allowed to have his gun. Also, the scene of the murders was a self-declared gun-free zone.

In this case, a man who had held a job for 15 years began shooting in the meeting where he was being fired. In the end, he murdered five people and injured five responding police officers, before he was shot and killed.

Subsequent investigation showed that the murderer obtained his Illinois FOID card in January 2014, and bought his handgun the following March. He passed the background check for his FOID card, but importantly, this background check did not include fingerprinting, according to the town’s police chief, Kristen Ziman.

Shortly after buying his handgun, the murderer applied for an IL concealed carry permit where he *was* fingerprinted. The fingerprint check showed that he had been convicted of felony aggravated assault in 1995 and so, he should never have been able to buy a firearm.

At this time, his concealed carry permit was denied and his FOID card was revoked. He was sent a letter telling him to surrender his handgun at his local police department. Police are currently investigating whether anyone ever followed up on the letter.

It turns out that the murderer had been arrested six times by his local police department, including arrests for domestic violence related issues and violating protection orders – this was in 2008. He was last arrested in 2017 for disorderly conduct and criminal property damage.

So once again we see several potential failures in process that culminated in a multiple murder with the corresponding tragedies. We wonder how the anti-gunners are going to spin this.

Paul – This is a prime example of more laws that just don’t

Gary –

John – It should be noted that he FOID database is run through the NICS system daily!

Gary –

Grant – I’m surprised that FPs aren’t required for a ccw.. and it’s important to remember that each new gun law is described as a “good first step”. Always described as if there are no gun laws at all and no one ever tells you what the first step is leading to.

6 minutes in






A Sheriff in Martin County, Kentucky has warned his local residents to “lock your doors, load your guns and get a barking, biting dog. If the Sheriff’s office can’t protect you, who will?”

One answer to this is the often-heard “you are your own first responder”, which is true, but what would provoke such a comment?

Martin County is a small, rural community of around 13,000 people. The Sheriff’s office operates with two paid officers and several volunteers. He was expecting money to be released for him, but it didn’t happen and he was forced to cut the volunteers it seems – he said “I can’t expect people not work if I can’t pay them.” It’s hard to tell if this is simply a statement of bald truth, or a high-stakes game of chicken. There is no police coverage in his area so his two-man team is everything.

Sheriff Kirk told a recent meeting of his local fiscal court that his agency was owed $75,000 from the court, so he temporarily suspended law enforcement services. Underpinning this financial crisis is a lowering of revenues from a settlement resulting from the decline in the coal industry.

Rural counties all over the country are facing their own versions of this and often, their sheriff’s department operate on small budgets with low manpower. Sheriff Kirk is one of the few who has openly said that the consequence is that individuals need to step up and take personal responsibility. He noted that policing services are secondary to the role of sheriff in collecting taxes, serving papers and perform bailiff services.

Sheriff’s Departments appear to be stepping up to problems affecting the communities they serve, including those related to the push for gun control in urban liberal communities. For example, 10 county sheriffs in Washington State have come out saying they will not enforce the 1639 laws and 29 county sheriffs in New Mexico are opposing multiple gun control initiatives in that state.

10 minutes in





KILLED with predjudice







Nevada Democrat Governor Steve Sisolak just signed a universal background check bill. The bill will prevent the private sales of long guns between friends or family members.

Governor Sisolak quotes the same tired agenda statements such as, this is long overdue and common sense, it will make Nevada safer and will save lives, that guns represent a public health crisis and that it would make it harder for dangerous individuals to access a firearm.

There is a sense of inevitability about the gradual state-by-state placement of these laws, but one thing that is particularly interesting lies in 4473 form.

Question 32 says “check if this transaction is a private party transfer.” The instructions for this question state: “check this box or write ‘private party transfer’ in question 31 if the licensee – that is, the FFL – is facilitating the sale or transfer of a firearm between private unlicensed individuals in according with ATF procedure 2013-1.” At the moment in many states this is voluntary, but it is interesting that the 4473 is “universal ready”, and has been so since 2013.

John – I didn’t realize that the 4473 had changed. Since I was just in NV, what kind of shocked me was the billboards and marijuana stores everywhere.




Paul -STORY SIX – Not going to get to this – roger that!   😀


This week, the House Judiciary Committee voted 23-15 – along party lines – to advance Democrat-proposed universal background check legislation to the House floor. This legislation would require background checks for virtually all firearms sales and transfers.

However, they rejected a potentially important amendment from Republican Representative Greg Steube of Florida. Steube’s Amendment would have required that law enforcement be alerted if a person were to fail the NICS check. The democrat committee declined to incorporate this.

Steube said later that “…the fact that Democrats do not want law enforcement notified if an individual attempting to purchase a firearm fails a background check is truly troubling.”

He continued: “In rejecting this amendment, the Democrats have shown their true colors. It is clear they are not interested in preventing gun violence or stopping the illegal purchase of firearms, but rather they are only interested in limiting the rights of law-abiding citizens to advance their own political agenda.”

In separate amendments, the GOP tried to include language that would alert I.C.E. if illegal aliens attempted to buy guns – the Democrat majority committee also rejected this. A separate amendment that would allow exceptions in the case of transfer of  firearms to family members at risk of domestic violence, was also rejected.

Representative Matt Gaetz said after the vote that “Democrats hate ICE so much, they would prefer to keep ICE from knowing when illegals try to get guns.”

Democrat committee chair Jerry Nadler closed the debate after 10 hours even though there were additional Republican amendments to be heard.

It is not known when the House will take the Bill for a vote, but it should be noted that if passed into law, it would not have prevented any of the recent mass murders.




Gun Quotes

More: http://www.catb.org/esr/fortunes/rkba.html


Hang on everybody, we’ll be back with our guest (Name).


3- Interview 1

4- Interview 2

5- DGUs  (at beginning) These discussions are NOT legal advice. Some of us are trainers, but this is not formal training and YOU NEED formal training. The Defensive Gun Use segment is intended as information, NOT as training. As always the opinions of the hosts are only their own opinions and not those of any sponsors or other affiliations.

Belle – Federal Way, Washington
Casandra Cooksey heard a car door slam outside her home just before midnight.  She was home alone with her infant daughter. She started to panic. She grabbed her firearm and went peeking around a corner.  That was when she saw a man in the opening in the door.
The man appeared to be intoxicated and refused to leave.  He started to get agitated when he was told to go away.
Cooksey called her husband at work and then called her neighbor, Daniel Wilson.  Wilson ran outside. He was also armed.
“I said you ain’t going nowhere bud, leave the house alone,” he said.
A few minutes later police arrived and took the man into custody.  They determined that no crime had taken place and eventually dropped the man off at home with his wife in Tacoma.
Cooksey said she was glad to be prepared.
“That’s the last thing I wanted to do, but first thing that went through my mind when I heard the door being tried to be open – I just wanted to protect myself and my baby,” Cooksey said. “There’s no doubt in my mind I would have pulled the trigger to protect myself and her if he got in the house.”

Paul  – unauthorised occupation of a premisies is
Grant – don’t get between momma bear and baby bear

John – Kingsport, Tennessee
An armed man went to a Kingsport dentist office and shot and killed his wife.  At the same time, a concealed carry permit holder was there, armed, and he reacted to the shooting.  He shot the gunman and kept him detained until law enforcement arrived.
The wife was an employee of the dentist office. The two have not been identified and a motive was unknown.  The gunman was taken to the hospital with “a couple of gunshot wounds.”
“It’s a citizen, a concealed-carry permit holder, that saw a threat, eliminated that threat and stood by until law enforcement arrived – he did a really good job,” Sullivan County Sheriff Jeff Cassidy said.
No one else was injured at the time of the shooting.

Paul – a good example why you need training

Grant – this is a great example of how everyday people step up and define the outcome of a critical threat

Grant – Allentown, Pennsylvania
Antonio Santiago had just gotten off work and had parked his car on Turner Street in Allentown on Saturday.  He was headed to visit with a friend when he was set upon by two masked men.

They sprayed him with pepper spray, hit him with a gun and demanded his money.
The 36 year old man told them to hold on while he looked for his money.  Instead of his money, he grabbed his handgun and fired one shot at the two thugs.

The bullet hit one of the two.  He fled but fell about 50 feet away.  He expired where he lay.

In a statement Monday, Lehigh County District Attorney James Martin said Santiago, who had a carry permit, was justified in using deadly force in the encounter.

According to a police statement, they found the second thug administering CPR to his compatriot.  Nearby a female was screaming about her boyfriend being dead.

Police found a BB gun in a nearby trash can; investigation revealed that the three had planned the attempted robbery and the BB gun and pepper spray belonged to the female.

After her boyfriend was shot, the female suspect recovered the BB gun and discarded it in the trash can. Both were charged with robbery and criminal conspiracy to commit robbery.  She was also charged with tampering with evidence.


Paul – in man

11 minutes in

Paul Lavaca, Arkansas
It is good to have friends and family nearby to watch your home and belongings when you are away.  A Lavaca homeowner’s brother and a mutual friend spotted two men removing items from their home. The two of them caught the men as they were stacking the items alongside the road as though they were waiting for a ride. They also saw a white car drive by with a female driver, and the friend was able to get a picture of the car.
The friend was holding a rifle when they confronted the burglars and they held them until police arrived.
During a search of the men, deputies found 2 driver’s licenses in a wallet and a third in the yard.  They found three cameras and a laptop in a backpack.
The two were also found to have warrants issued against them.  They were placed under arrest and taken to the county detention center.  Along the way, the deputy drove by one of the men’s addresses and spotted a car matching the photo.  That suspect admitted that the car belonged to him and his wife.
The two were charged with numerous crimes.

14 minutes in

Gary – Arcata, California
Zoraida and Jim Oullette own and live in a home in Arcata.  At 12:30 AM, Jim looked out the window and saw someone on their knees screaming at the end of the court.  He went to a neighbor’s truck and started shaking it, then moved to the Oullette’s and started banging on it.  He then made his way to their front door and started banging on it.
He was yelling for them to open the door.  They yelled at him to go away and Jim retrieved his gun from the bedroom.
Zoraida had called police when the man kicked the door down.
“You could see the door buckling, then everything, the wood and everything just flew out,” Jim said.  “He just stood there and so I just held my gun and waited for the police to get there.”
The invader was arrested and taken to the hospital to be treated for hypothermia.  Due to prior convictions, he was taken to jail after treatment.

We post each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com  Please take a minute and share them with a friend.


6- E-mail, blog notes, and show close

Listener e-mail discussion

Paul: Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?

Grant – I will read for Rob

Rob- In one article I said, David Hogg was a student at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida. He has ridden to notoriety on that affiliation.. and on Michael Bloomberg’s money. Recently, Hogg condemned USA Today for turning the Parkland murderer into a celebrity. Hogg is wrong about gun control, but he is right about the news media.

In another article I said, This will be our epitaph if the US fails as a country;

“We wanted to stop doing stupid things.. but we were addicted to money and power.”

Our list of our stupid government actions is endless, but the regulation of firearms mufflers has to be near the top of the list. I didn’t believe it until I heard it with my own ears. We should be shouting for muffler deregulation.

That and more are up at Clash Daily, at Ammoland and at my blog, slow facts dot wordpress dot com.  John, tell us what’s new at your blog no lawyers only guns and money.

The would-be gun banners in North Carolina have introduced what they are calling the Gun Violence Prevention Act. None of the 14 provisions in the bill do anything to prevent the criminal misuse of firearms. However, there are things in the bill that would seek to destroy gun ownership in North Carolina. Things like the adoption of the California handgun roster, mandatory firearms liability insurance for all gun owners, and elimination of state preemption among other things. It should be noted that one of the primary sponsors of the bill is the former NC Chapter Head for the Demanding Moms who got elected this past November. I call this bill an attempt to Californicate North Carolina gun laws. I am working on a follow-up post profiling the 4 Democrats who have sponsored the bill.

That and more is at only guns and money dot blogspot dot com.

Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast.  I’d like to thank (Guests) for joining us today. So for Amy, Tracy, Belle, Dana, Douglas, Gary, John, Rachel, Susan, Grant and Rob,

(Paul, stop talking now)

Grant: Until the next time…

Gary: stay safe,

Belle: be aware,

John: and we’ll see you down the road.

Episode 483 – Shayna Lopez-Rivas, Kerry Slone and a roundtable


Paul: Welcome to the polite society podcast powered by the Firearms Policy Coalition recorded on Monday, February 11, 2019, I’m Paul Lathrop.

John: I’m John Richardson, and we’ll talk about a Parkland parent who supports President Trump

Rob: I’m Rob Morse and we’ll continue our interview with Kerry Sloan and Shayna Lopez- Rivas.

Gary: I’m Gary Daugherty and in one of our DGUs a homeowner comes home to a pair of shoes that didn’t belong there.. so climb aboard

Rob: strap in

John: and hang on!

Paul:  episode 483 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.

Show intro music.

Personal news from each participant (when you are done with your segment please ask the next person what has been up with them)

Rob- Lock n Load. Carried every day. 12k downloads on SDGS. Looking for a new holster for my Ace firearms G-19. Getting ready to go to the Florida Carry Meet and Greet in Dunnellon, Florida. Jason Christiansen

John – I took a leap of faith this weekend and disassembled my Mossberg 500. It is an old one that needs a deep cleaning and slicking up. I want to polish the mag tube, remove some rust, replace the follower, and add a shell carrier to it. I also plan to spiff up the factory camo job..  Later I’ll be putting an XS Sights big dot on it. With luck and YouTube, I will get it reassembled! Barb and I booked our hotel room for the NRA Annual Meeting. We had considered AirBnB but it made Barb uneasy.

John – Carrier to allow use of mini-shells – OPSol Texas




Grant – Well, we just got finished hosting Klint Macro of the Trigger Pressers Union (www.triggerpressersunion.com) from Pittsburgh as the guest Training Counselor for our first Instructor Development Workshop in the USCCA Concealed Carry and Home Defense Fundamentals Instructor certification. It was an intense two days that saw eight new USCCA Instructors successfully complete the class. So, well done to all of them and a huge Thank-You to Klint for coming out. I also saw the L.A.S.R software in action, paired with a SIRT pistol. This is a really powerful tool and I’m looking forward to working with it a lot more.

Paul/Susan Just recorded another ACLDN episode

Promo about upcoming training classes here.

Grant – we are now into our regular ScotShot classes with our basic pistol class every month. This year we are running a mix of classes from NRA and USCCA, and we have also just finalized the dates for our USCCA and NRA Instructor classes. You can find out about these by emailing grant-at-scotshot-dot-com.

Ask listeners to listen to other shows on the network, name at least 2 shows.



2- News



Andrew Pollack’s daughter was murdered at Parkland high school a year ago. Mr. Pollack condemned the bureaucrats who ignored the murderer’s history, and then tried to deflect their guilt onto the 2nd Amendment.

Pollack reacted to the President’s State of the Union Address by praising the President’s actions after the atrocity. He attended the State of the Union Address as the guest of new Florida Senator, Rick Scott.  Pollack said, “My only regret is that President Trump didn’t make clear to the American public how much his administration has done to make schools safer.”

He added: “In the past, school shootings have prompted a fight over the second amendment and nothing else. But the Trump administration put together an unprecedented commission and published a report containing a hundred recommendations that will make schools safer. He also ended the dangerous leniency policies that led to my daughter’s murder and that endanger millions of students across America.”

Pollack pondered how the Democrats would have responded if Trump had explained everything he has done to improve school safety. He said, “I wonder whether Pelosi would have stood up and clapped for school safety. Probably not.

Mr Pollack is also recently attacked  Speaker Pellosi for going against the President as he continued to push to allow volunteer teachers to be armed.

John – I understand Mr. Pollack is pushing the Sun-Sentinal of Broward Co for the Pulitzer Prize based on their reporting showing the errors of the Broward Co school system and Sheriff Scott Israel.

Paul – Isn’t it sad that it is the Newspaper is the exception rather than the rule.

Rob- the SS did that after the elections.

Grant – isn’t he the chap who has had to move house because of this?






We have been quite aggressive about reporting the travesty of so-called Red Flag laws that are allowing firearm confiscations without due process. These laws are springing up like weeds all over the country. Recently we noted that Florida had seen a large increase in gun confiscations following the introduction of their law.

Well, the initial data are now in for California, too. California has had a red flag law since 2016

In 2016, California issued 86 gun confiscation orders. In 2017, it was 104. In 2018, their Red Flag law was in place and now, the number has jumped to 424.

This huge increase has been because of change in policing policy to make seeking such orders part of mainstream police policy. In San Diego County, for example, the law opened the door to municipalities drawing up confiscation plans. San Diego City attorney Mara Elliot said that their policy has “taken off like wildfire”. The city has issued 185 confiscation orders since the new, expanded law came into effect at the end of September 2018.

At the beginning of this year, the law was further expanded to include ammunition and firearms accessories.



John – I fear that North Carolina will be joining this trend of having red flag laws. We had a recently released “school safety” report which I think will give Republicans cover.

Rob- Bigotry




Some of us are old enough to remember Chris Rock joking individual pieces of ammunition should cost around $5,000. Well, Connecticut legislator, Jillian Gilchrest (D) is trying to do just that. She has co-sponsored a bill that would add a tax of 50% to every box of ammunition. Your $30 box of WInchester White Box in Walmart would now cost you a whopping $45.

This is clearly an attempt to reduce firearms use by simply making it too expensive to train or practice.

The complete text of her bill is short and sweet:  “That title 12 of the general statutes be amended to increase the rate of sales and use taxes on ammunition to fifty per cent.”

If enacted, this bill would disproportionately affect poorer members of the community.

Of course, this will do nothing to prevent criminal access to guns and ammunition. It also wouldn’t have stopped the maniacal criminals who commit mass murders, who would be motivated to buy the ammunition anyway.

Maybe it’s time to rename Connecticut from the “nutmeg” state to the “nutcase” state?

Rob- the power to tax is the power to..

Paul – The federal excise tax is supposed to go to support sporting uses I am betting that there

John – It is also known as the Constitution State. What a misnomer. If taxes were raised to 50%, what is to stop people from just crossing the border to an adjacent state to buy ammo?







Grant- House Democrats refuse to let Republican speak about violent attacks.

House Republican Whip Steve Scalise was denied the opportunity to speak by the House Judiciary Committee

Scalese said, “In fact, these new gun control measures being proposed in H.R. 8 would not have prevented any number of recent mass violence events. Several perpetrators of recent multi-victim shootings also purchased their guns legally. In some instances, the background check system failed, and lack of intervention from law enforcement failed to intercept potential threats.”

The democrat controlled committee let anti-gun spokesmen funded by billionaire Michael Bloomberg speak.



The republicans ignored gun owners when they were in office. The democrats know who gives them money.

Gun Quotes

Paul-You Don’t Get to Pick the Day You Need Your Gun. Someone else will pick that day and they will only tell you at the last minute. Tom Givens

Hang on everybody, we’ll be back with our guests Kerry Sloan and Shayna Lopez- Rivas.


3- Interview 1  Kerry Sloan and Shayna Lopez- Rivas

4- Interview 2

When you can vs when you should?

When you’re legally allowed to shoot vs when you’re morally compelled to shoot.

Grant – is it worth dying, or going to jail for?

John – In an ideal situation, CCW classes would include elements of MAG-20 and Branca’s The Law of Self Defense.

Rob- Is someone going to the hospital or the morgue. Document your training.


5- DGUs  (at beginning) These discussions are NOT legal advice. Some of us are trainers, but this is not formal training and YOU NEED formal training. The Defensive Gun Use segment is intended as information, NOT as training. As always the opinions of the hosts are only their own opinions and not those of any sponsors or other affiliations.

Grant – Tempe, Arizona

A homeowner reported finding “a pair of shoes inside that were not there before.”  A short time later, a man approached her and warned her not to call the police as she attempted to walk outside with her phone.

The man ran, leaving his shoes behind, and jumped over a wall just as officers arrived.  He ended up at a nearby apartment complex and forced his way into another woman’s home.

He walked in and told her to be quiet, be quiet.

He asked her to pretend to be his girlfriend.

“I asked him to wait in the living room because my first instinct was to go grab my gun because I just need to protect everyone else,” she said. “I hid it behind my pants.”

The woman was home alone with her two kids.  Her boyfriend had just left a few minutes earlier.  Her instincts kicked in.

She tried to stay calm and see if she could get him help.  She refused his request for a knife.

She made a move to grab her phone to call the police but he moved in to stop her.  She countered by grabbing the gun and pointing it at him.

She forced him out of the apartment and called police.  They were still nearby looking for him.

He was given commands by police at the top of the stairs.  He became combative with the officers. They released a K-9 officer who bit the suspect and held on with his bite as the suspect punched him in the head several times.

He also fought with officers who reported minor injuries.

According to the armed mother,  he was really fighting and was practically begging for the officers to shoot him.

He was transported to the hospital for treatment of dog-bite injuries and then booked into jail.


Rob- pogo

John – Probably begging because the dog bite hurt so much.

Paul – a perfect DGU – no shots fired. Also it sounds as though the had the gun out when she answered the door, it’s actually faster to draw from a holster than to bring a gun from around your legs

Rob- Hot Springs, Arkansas

A well known Arkansas Republican found herself practicing what she preaches on the second amendment last week.

Former GOP gubernatorial candidate Jan Morgan practices her gun handling on a simulator like the threat is real.

Morgan’s daughter was walking into the family’s private indoor shooting range when a man came at her.  Morgan was inside the range.

“My daughter called me on her cell phone screaming and crying and panicked. She said some guy had just charged at her,” Morgan said.

Her daughter had locked herself in the car and Morgan exited the building with her gun.  The man was banging on the car windows and yelling at her daughter.

Morgan yelled at him, ‘I’m armed, get on the ground, get on the ground, put your hands behind your head,’ and he did,” she said.

Morgan questioned him questions, her daughter snapped a picture and she let him go, saying he was no longer a threat.  He admitted he was on drugs.

“Legally I had every right to pull the trigger on him, just because legally you can do something doesn’t mean that you should,” Morgan said.

She told him to never come back there and was betting he would not.  She did plan on filing a police report on the incident.

The situation comes as the Arkansas legislature was reviewing a bill that would protect more uses of deadly force – What the media called “stand your ground law.”

Democrats claimed it would cause a rise in gun-related homicides, Morgan said it is a self-defense law that protects those who want to protect others.

The bill has been postponed to add amendments.

9 minutes in plenty of time left


John – Naperville, Illinois

While this next story does not have an example of a defensive gun use, it is a reminder that even in the most unlikely neighborhood, crime happens.

Two men wearing ski masks and armed with guns broke into a home and held the residents up at gunpoint while they stole stuff from the home. The armed robbers ran toward a busy road before getting away.

Police responded to the scene to search for the robbers, but unfortunately, they were able to get away with cash and electronics. Investigators believe that the house was targeted and it was not a random crime. There is no evidence that other neighbors could be in danger.

So far, there are no arrests in this case.


We post each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com  Please take a minute and share them with a friend.




6- E-mail, blog notes, and show close

Listener e-mail discussion

Grant – Our 1st email is from Sam

Paul said you have to hold a revolver by the barrel to hit someone with the butt. That’s not necessarily so. If you hold it like you intend to shoot it, you can strike with any of several parts of the weapon. I agree it’s not the way I would use it. Had he struck with the barrel, I guess they would have called the striking a pistol whipping.

Love the show.



Gary – Carl also emailed this week.

Hello All,

I listened with interest to your interview with Derek LaBlanc as we plan to visit Oregon this summer.  It sounds like he has a good approach as far as labeling his legislation as safety, which is exactly what it is.

As an aside, Oregon is one of the states that my combination of concealed carry licenses (Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Utah) does not cover.  That seemed odd, since I am even legal in Washington State.

Good luck to Derek and the other pro-civil rights advocates in Washington.


Paul – Look into www.handgunlaw.us


John – Don’t feel bad, Carl, Oregon doesn’t recognize any other state’s CCW according to www.handgunlaw.us.

Paul: John, tell us what’s new at your blog no lawyers only guns and money.

You may remember that a Federal judge in Texas dismissed the lawsuit filed by Defense Distributed against the Attorney General of New Jersey Gurbir Grewal. It was dismissed over jurisdiction concerns and not the merits. The suit has now been refiled in New Jersey *and* now has five gun rights groups as institutional plaintiffs. New Jersey seeks to ban the distribution of the computer files which is a violation of multiple Constitutional protections including both the 1st and 2nd Amendments, the Commerce Clause, and both the Due Process and Equal Protection Clauses of the 14th Amendment. This will be an interesting case to watch.

That and more is at only guns and money dot blogspot dot com.

Paul – Brandon Combs of FPC going to be on the show next week.

Facebook listeners group


Who is Douglas?

Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast.  I’d like to thank (Kerry Slone and Shayna Lopez Rivas) for joining us today.  So for Amy, Tracy, Belle, Dana, Douglas, Gary, John, Rachel, Susan, Grant and Rob,

(Paul, stop talking now)

Rob: Until the next time…

Gary: stay safe,

Grant: be aware,

John: and we’ll see you down the road.

Episode 482 – Willes Lee, Kerry Slone and Shayna Lopex-Rivas


Rob: Welcome to the polite society podcast powered by the Firearms Policy Coalition recorded on Monday, February 4, 2019, I’m Rob Morse

John: I’m John Richardson, and we’ll talk about Constitutional carry coming to Paul’s homeland of South Dakota

Belle: I’m Belle McCormack, and Kerry Slone about the new Washington State gun laws..

Amy: I’m Amy Dillon and we’ll talk about how the Italian government is realizing the importance of their citizen’s right to keep and bear arms

Gary: I’m Gary Daugherty and we have a DGU at a food truck… so climb aboard

Belle: strap in

John: and hang on!

Rob:  episode 482 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.

Show intro music.

Personal news from each participant (when you are done with your segment please ask the next person what has been up with them)

Rob- Shot my new Ace Firearms lower. I have a lot of gun friends, so when I had a question, I asked and got some answers. Thank you, Amy Dillon.

John- I spent most of the week catching up after having been at the SHOT Show. That and dealing with a cold which may or may not be the actual dreaded SHOT Shot crud. Other than that, nothing gun related.


Amy – I just want to say thank you to Paul and the rest of my co-hosts and staff with Polite Society Podcast for covering the shows last month while I dealt with the passing of my Dad. I did attend the last few days of SHOT Show as well, so I have been recovering from that. One of the things I would like to share from that is, we got a lot accomplished for the DC Project while there and I do want to remind everyone of our upcoming fundraiser 3-Gun match June 7th-9th in Burnet, Texas at Reveille Peak Ranch. Details on how to sign up and more are shared on the “DC Project Team Match” facebook page as well as on https://www.pro3gunner.com/team-match/

Belle- I was finally able to get out and compete this year, shot 3 IDPA matches since i was on last. Taught out first Intro to Handguns class at FAS this year. 20 new students introduced to our

curriculum that I hope to see come back.

Grant- This week I took the 365 and the 320 out for another version of “precision has purpose” (thanks, Tracy – it’s now a hashtag) but single-handed. Working single handed with either hand should be an important part of everyone’s training and I want people to know that it isn’t as hard as they might think. I also taught a private NRA Basic Rifle class for a Father and Son, who had booked it as the son’s Christmas present – no pressure, right? – so I brought more rifles than I might normally do, and basically doubled the range portion. They had a great time, which is the most important thing. I’d also like to ask our Listeners, if you’re eligible to vote in the upcoming NRA election, please do.


Promo about upcoming training classes here.

Grant- National Train a Teacher day, July 20th!


Ask listeners to listen to other shows on the network, name at least 2 shows.


2- News

POLITE SOCIETY NEWS, February 04th 2019

Hi everyone. Please remember to send your comments on the news to “onair@politicsandguns.com”



In her first act as South Dakota Governor, Kristi Noem signed into law Senate Bill 47. The act was entitled “An Act to repeal and revise certain provisions regarding permits to carry a concealed pistol.” The bill passed the State Senate by 23-to-11 and the State House by 47-to-23.

The new Law extends the existing permitless *open* carry law to permitless *concealed* carry. So, South Dakota is now officially a full “Constitutional Carry” state, the fourteenth such state.

The law will take effect on July first. It will give SD residents the ability to determine what legal mechanism best suits their needs. Residents who need a permit for reciprocity with other states will still be able to get one. The new law will not alter previous restrictions on where a handgun may be taken.

Governor Noem said that she was proud that it was the first Bill she had signed as Governor and that it was “..special for her to be signing a bill into law that protects our Second Amendment rights,”

Speaking for the National Rifle Association, Cliff Cox said, “This law is a common-sense measure that allows law-abiding South Dakotans to exercise their fundamental right to self-protection in the manner that best suits their needs.”

Governor Noem concluded that “The Constitution has provided the framework for policies for more than 230 years and while things have changed since it was written, our American fundamental values have not,” Noem said.

Rob- CC




We often talk about the move to violence in the extreme fringes of the left. For example, one group, calling themselves the “Red Guard of Austin”, posted on their blog in 2018 that “antifascism must take on a paramilitary character”. This post accompanied others, entitled, “It will not fall unless you hit it” and “Everywhere is a battlefield.” This is in Austin, possibly the liberal left capital of Texas.

More recently, we have seen claims that the “Antifa” movement is staging for a Civil War.

Well, all of this is speculation. Many of us have ridiculed them and mocked their apparent weakness, compared to the conservative side of the political landscape. Perhaps this is a mistake.

Recently, a member of the Eugene, Oregon chapter of Antifa got into a squabble with the local police department at the school his child attends. His name isn’t  important. He belonged to an armed Antifa group. He drew his firearm on police officers who were attempting to arrest him, and they shot and killed him.

The gentleman appeared at his daughter’s Middle School, requesting to pick her up. However, the school know he had recently lost custody of the child, and refused to release her to him. He argued, and the school called the police.

The man argued with the officers and they manhandled him out of the building. The man resisted and in the altercation that followed, he drew and fired his handgun against the officers. As a consequence, the man died at the scene. It turned out that in addition to his handgun, the man had brought a backpack full of ammunition and loaded magazines to the school.

The following day, the Eugene Police Department found explosive devices planted outside their headquarters. While their source is unknown, the local Antifa group are prime suspects in this development.

The police have stated that these were not hoax devices but were the “real deal, IED devices”.

Police lieutenant David Natt said  that “Incendiary devices were found….these were not hoax devices.” The local explosive disposal unit was able to defuse the explosive devices safely. Federal agencies are now involved.

Perhaps it’s time to stop mocking Antifa and take them much more seriously as a growing threat to our Republic

John – Michael Bane says take people at their word – if someone says they want to kill you, believe them.

Amy- That’s domestic terrorism, isn’t it?!






Recently, we reported on how in September last year, the Italian government loosened its gun laws. The new law doubled the number of weapons that licensed citizens could own. This includes some semiautomatic firearms, including as several models of AR-15. It also loosened the limits on magazine capacity.

Deputy Prime Minister Matteo Salvini said that he isn’t “arming Italy”, he is simply giving good Italians the chance to defend themselves. This follows public opinion – in 2015 only 26% of Italians said they were in favor of making it easier to get a gun for self defense, now it is 40%.

Approximately four-and-a-half million Italian homes have one or more firearms.

The government’s new bill on legitimate-self-defence will be approved by the end of February, the Deputy Prime Minister said.

The bill would introduce rules similar to the US stand-your-ground laws, where virtually all forms of self-defence on one’s property against intruders are deemed legitimate.

“Many people are asking me when parliament will approve the legitimate-defence law after years of chatter,” said League leader Salvini. “The answer is, by the end of February. The aim is to protect the sacrosanct right to legitimate defence of good citizens, shopkeepers, entrepreneurs and farmers.” This will be recognised by the Italian law by the end of February. He concluded, “The job of being a robber will be a little more difficult and a little more risky”

So, well done to the Italian government for recognizing its citizens’ rights!

John – If you think about it, a rise from 26 to 40% in 3-4 years is incredible.
Rob- EU




We reported recently on the Oregon bill that was introduced recently, that would restrict firearm capacity to five rounds, and limit ammunition purchases to 20 rounds per month. If you remember, the Legislator sought the opinions of high school kids as to what should be in the bill.

Let’s not forget that this bill might well make many revolvers illegal if they have more than five-round cylinders.

So, even liberal gun owners have said this is “too much”.  The OR chapter of the Liberal Gun Club has said it will lobby against the bill. Spokesperson Lara Smith said the bill was “… just draconian. It’s crazy.”

Speaking at SHOT show, she said that the bill could make firearms owners *less* safe because it will limit how often people can train, and may make them less safe with their firearms.

She continued by saying that it was counterproductive to kick and scream about rights and the second amendment. It may be more productive to argue that, if the left is concerned about safety in the firearms owning community, why should they make it more difficult for these same people to maintain their firearms competency?

John – I had dinner with Lara at SHOT Show. She may be liberal on some things but she is very pro-2A.




Gary- Gun Quotes

To ban guns because criminals use them is to tell the innocent and law-abiding that their rights and liberties depend not on their own conduct, but on the conduct of the guilty and the lawless, and that the law will permit them to have only such rights and liberties as the lawless will allow..by Jeff Snyder

Hang on everybody, we’ll be back with our guest Willes Lee

Kerry Slone

Shayna Rivas.


3- Interview 1

Willes Lee

Amy- Willes, Why is this election so important this time around?

Amy- Even for those members that are not eligible to vote, there are still things we can do to help promote the importance of this vote, and shaping the direction of the NRA, by bringing attention to the members we would like to see elected, right? What can we do to help you?


4- Interview 2

Kerry Slone


“Domestic violence victims are being used as pawns in the political chess match over the Second Amendment by advocates of gun control laws. Their voices are virtually silenced or ignored if they make an attempt to speak out in support of their constitutional right to defend themselves with a firearm.

“Gun control advocates and legislators have no right to claim that they support women’s rights when they do not support a woman’s right to defend her own life.”

I’m a domestic violence survivor.
The legal system failed me.
My ability to defend myself is severely restricted by Washington’s gun-control laws.
That is true in other states, and more restrictions are coming to Washington.

Shayna Lopez-Rivas- Survivor, Advocate, Activist

Facebook https://www.facebook.com/shaynalopezrivas

Twitter @noleforjustice

Gary 5- DGUs (at beginning) These discussions are NOT legal advice. Some of us are trainers, but this is not formal training and YOU NEED formal training. The Defensive Gun Use segment is intended as information, NOT as training. As always the opinions of the hosts are only their own opinions and not those of any sponsors or other affiliations.

Gary- Lithonia, Georgia

Not long after it opened for the morning, a man walked into a Family Dollar store in the Atlanta suburb of Lithonia.  He pulled out a gun and pointed it at the two clerks at the front counter, and demanded the money from the register. This was creating quite a commotion.

Not too far away, a shopper heard the commotion and made is way toward the front of the store.  This customer was armed. He pulled his gun and fired at the robber.

The robber was pronounced dead at the scene and the customer was pronounced a good Samaritan.

The entire incident was captured on the store’s security system.

Neither the name of the dead criminal nor the good Samaritan has been released.  The good Samaritan will not be charged.




John – Elizabeth City, North Carolina

It was 6:30 AM when the registered sex offender attempted to enter a home in Elizabeth City, NC.  He entered the home through the back door and that is where he was confronted by the homeowner.

The homeowner was armed and shot the invader, who then left the home.  The homeowner called 911 to report the break-in and shooting. The assailant was gone from the area of the home by the time police arrived but had driven himself to a local hospital seeking treatment.

The reports do not give the gender of the homeowner and only the criminal is named.  He was in fair condition and home invasion charges are pending. There is also no indication of whether the homeowner knew the invader.


John –


Amy- Logan, Utah

A 23 year old man went to the home that his ex-girlfriend, Jordan Oakden, lived in with Jeremy Boyle and his mother.  The man arrived and started making threats, after texting with Jordan Oakden earlier in the morning.

Oakden offered to take the man to work in an attempt to defuse the situation, and she went outside to warm up the car.

The man entered the home and was shot by Boyle.

Both Oakden and Boyle’s mother attempted CPR but the man was pronounced dead a short time later.

There were 4 children in the home at the time including two that Oakden shared with the dead man.  He and Boyle had a contentious history that predated the relationship.

The investigation was ongoing and self-defense has still not been determined.


Rob- Miami-Dade, Florida

It was 10 AM and the driver of a food truck and a female were started to get ready for the day.  The woman was approached by the suspect who pointed a gun at her and demanded that she hand over money and get on the ground.

The driver heard the commotion and went to find out what was happening.  He encountered the robber who pointed the gun at him. He handed over the money and somehow armed himself and shot at the robber.

His shot was on target and as the suspect attempted to flee, he was tackled by the driver and held down until officers arrived at the scene.

At the same time, two people were in a nearby car and fired at the truck.  The driver returned fire and hit one of the two. They drove to a nearby hospital where the injured man received treatment and both were questioned.

A connection between the car and the robbery suspect was trying to be determined.  The firearm dropped by the robbery suspect had been recovered at the scene.

Rob- Driver and employee should have been armed


John – Bonner County, Idaho

Last October, Jamila Hall and her mother were outside her home when her neighbor approached them.  Just seconds earlier, he had chased Robert Johnson as he drove away from the home.

The man was shirtless and ran toward the two with fists clenched and threatening them.  “I’m going to get you,” he was reported as saying.

Hall armed herself with a handgun and a baseball bat.  As he got within 5 feet of her, she fired one shot and hit him in the chest.  They then began life-saving procedures but he later passed away from this injury.

Prior to his passing, police arrived and corroborated her story and the man told them he had multiple alcoholic beverages that day.  His blood-alcohol was found to be .233 at the time of his death.

Due to Hall’s attempts to get Cole to stop approaching her and her mother, Louis E. Marshall, Bonner County Prosecuting Attorney said “the act of using deadly force by Jimila Hall was, in this circumstance, reasonable.”

The coroner had confirmed that he had been shot in the back and his family claimed that showed that he was not the aggressor.

Detectives did determine that race was not a factor, Hall and her mother are black and the dead man was white.  They also discovered various charges of violent acts against women by the man.

This multiple time loser is listed in the gun control memorial site.


We post each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com  Please take a minute and share them with a friend.


6- E-mail, blog notes, and show close

Listener e-mail discussion

Email from Val (possibly taking Claytons’s place as our serial emailer)

The recent interview with Rory Miller (episode 479) brought up the discussion of the sheepdog analogy or mentality. As mentioned, we’re not the sheepdogs. Rather, we are sheep with fangs. This comes from an article written more than 20 years ago – the Parable of the Sheep. It’s long, so here’s a link to it, I’m sure those who’ve not seen this will get something from it.

Oh, and aren’t we happy in South Dakota to get a bit more freedom back with the passing of the Permitless Carry bill?


Rapid City

Paul: Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?

Rob- Assault Speech and Hate Weapons- the media spin that would make Orwell proud

It is dangerous to let other people do our thinking for us. We seem certain we can define “hate speech”. We’re convinced that “assault weapons” are bad.  Both terms have been manipulated by politicians and the media to mean anything they want them to mean. We were sold such a twisted-logic of lies that it would be funny.. if it were not so dangerous.

Elites with armed bodyguards tell us to give up our tools of self-defense. We’re called toxic-hateful-deplorable-clingers if we object. “Assault weapon” is a debating term and so is “hate speech”. An assault weapon is any firearm a politician wants to confiscate. “Hate speech” are any statements that criticize the politician’s latest voting block. The elites lie to us. Look at their record of hypocrisy to see the truth of that statement.

My articles are up at Clash Daily, at Ammoland and at my blog, slow facts dot wordpress dot com.  John, tell us what’s new at your blog no lawyers only guns and money.

John – I put up my annual round-up of endorsements for the NRA Board of Directors. If you are a Life Member or a 5-year continuous member, you should have received your ballot. Please vote! Turnout is usually in the 7-10% which is less than most municipal primaries. I also included how I plan to vote. I am bullet voting for Adam Kraut because I think the NRA needs to make changes and he is a start. The other people I support like Willes Lee I thought had enough clout to get on the board without my vote.

That and more is at only guns and money dot blogspot dot com.

Facebook listeners group

Rob: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast.  I’d like to thank (willes lee, kerry sloan and shayna lopez rivas for joining us today.  So for Amy, Tracy, Belle, Dana, Douglas, Gary, John, Rachel, Susan, Grant and Rob,

(Paul, stop talking now)

Gary: Until the next time…

Rob: stay safe,

Amy: be aware,

John: and we’ll see you down the road.

Episode 481 – News and DGUs


Paul : Welcome to the polite society podcast powered by the Firearms Policy Coalition recorded on Wednesday, January 30th, 2019, I’m Paul Lathrop

John: I’m John Richardson, and we’ll talk about the Supreme Court finally accepting another 2A case

Gary: I’m Gary Daugherty and we have a DGU over a parking spot… so climb aboard

Grant: strap in

John : and hang on!

Paul:  episode 481 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.

Show intro music

Personal news from each participant (when you are done with your segment please ask the next person what has been up with them)

John – I had a great time at the SHOT Show and chatted with a lot of people who have been on the show in the past. They ranged from Brandon Combs to Yehuda Remer, Cheryl Todd, and Willes Lee plus everyone in between. The show was so busy that I didn’t even finally see Amy Dillon until Thursday! My roommate for the show was Prof. David Yamane who was there doing research for his book on Gun Culture 2.0. As for the show itself, many said it was characterized more by line extensions than really new stuff and I would agree.


Grant – well busy busy! I just finished the first USCCA class run from ScotShot, their Basic Pistol class. This is, as they say, not your grandfather’s Basic Pistol class. It is very much orientated to the defensive use of handguns rather than the more recreational use supported by the NRA in their basic classes, and the students enjoyed it a lot. I also took Tracy’s comments last week to heart and have inserted an “aim small, miss small” element into my regular training. This week’s episode on that front was a five-pointed star with a 0.75 inch target at each point, shot at five yards, which I managed with both my 365 and my p226. Like we said last week, it’s all about the trigger, and here’s a general question, what regular things to people include in their training?


Promo about upcoming training classes here.

Grant – I want to remind everyone out there that National Train a Teacher day is July 20th this year, anyone in the Chicago/Illinois area can reach out to Gary Daugherty from the show to find out what he is doing, or to me for our offering, or to your local trainer. I’m also pleased to say that our first USCCA Instructor class is full, and that we will be welcoming Klint Macro to lead the class at the beginning of February, with other classes coming up over the summer. You can contact me about all our classes at Grant at scotshot dot com.




Ask listeners to listen to other shows on the network, name at least 2 shows.

Grant – I like “Modern Self Protection” and “Mind4Survival”


2- News

POLITE SOCIETY NEWS, January 28th 2019

Hi everyone. Please remember to send your comments on the news to “onair@politicsandguns.com”




In the matter of Docket number 18-280, New York State Rifle and Pistol Association v the City of New York, The Supreme Court of the United States has decided to hear the case on whether the City of New York can continue with its ban on New Yorkers taking their lawful handguns out of the City.

The case is expected to be heard in October of this year.

Current law is that legal gun owners may not transport their handguns outside of the city, even if the gun is licensed, locked and unloaded. The Association argues that this prevents owners from taking their guns to second homes, hunting trips and firing ranges for self-defense, recreational or competition purposes.

The plaintiffs claim that the ban violates the Second Amendment, the Commerce Clause of the Constitution, and the constitutional right to travel. The Second Circuit Court of Appeals sided with the City, saying the there were seven firing ranges in the city where the guns could be used.

The case is significant in that it is the first 2A case the Court has heard in almost 10 years. It is widely speculated that the acceptance of the case is indicative of the President’s influence on the Court.

The  case has raised great hope that if it succeeds, it will open the way for more open transportation of personal firearms generally.



John –

Gary –




In Illinois Senate Bill SB-107, Senator Julie Morrison has introduced a dramatic gun-ban proposal.

Her Bill will ban all semi-automatic handguns and rifles that are *capable* of accepting a magazine that holds over 10 rounds.

This is much more aggressive than banning the magazines themselves. It would mean that virtually every firearm that accepts a detachable magazine would be banned. So, every AR or AK, every Glock, Sig and HK handgun, every 1911, all would fall under the ban proposed in this new legislation. Every 10/22 rifle also.

The proposed legislation also bans semi-automatic shotguns that can hold 5 rounds.

The Bill would allow grandfathering of existing firearms, with a registration costing $25 per gun.

Some commentators are speculating that this is redundant, because they are anticipating a separate magazine capacity law, that new Governor Pritzker will sign, however we hope that everyone will see the difference.

We expect that this bill, if passed into Law, will be subject to litigation, where the State will doubtless argue that it is not a ban, because existing firearms can be registered (but no new guns will be available).

This sweeping gun-grab comes hard on the heels of a Bill introduced into the IL house, House Bill 0888, which amends the conditions of the “FOID” card to require the State Police to search  a purchasers social media accounts to.

“… determine if there is any information that would disqualify the person from obtaining or require revocation of a currently valid Firearm Owner’s Identification Card…”

Of course that means that FOID card holders need to turn in the names of all such accounts.

Is there no end to how Illinois is taking control of the citizens? How far behind is the Federal House, under Pelosi?


John – HB 888 might better have been numbered 666! The Mass AG is trying to use that same wording “capable” to ban new ARs.

Gary –






Businessman, benefactor, one-time NYC mayor, and likely 2020 presidential candidate Michael Bloomberg came out in favor of more guns on the street recently, but not in the way we normally think of this concept.

No, the man who wants to disarm all of us is now proposing a little private army to patrol Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore, where he is a major funding benefactor. He said bluntly that it is “ridiculous” that the University doesn’t have an armed police force.

He said, “When you have a city that has the murder rate that Baltimore has, I think it’s ridiculous to think that they shouldn’t be armed.”, discussing the Hopkins security force.

Bloomberg spoke to reporters after a closed-door meeting with Democrat lawmakers and the state Attorney General. The University is seeking approval from the General Assembly for a private police force to patrol, the campus, the hospital campus and the Peabody Institute.

The proposal has the support of the Senate President. Others are concerned that a private police force won’t be properly accountable to the public.

Previously, the idea of a private place force for Johns Hopkins was rejected following public disagreement. Now, Mr Bloomberg is proposing it again. A group called “Students Against Private Police” – SAPP for short – say this move runs counter to Mr Bloomberg’s well known stance on gun control. However, he says it is “irrational” for the school and hospital not to have armed security.



Gary –




It is interesting how, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary, some lawmakers persist with the idea that schools are saver when those in charge are unable to respond rapidly to an armed attack, such as we have seen in Parkland almost a year ago.

Maryland legislator Cheryl Glenn sponsored House Bill 31. This bill would have allowed the Baltimore city police officers who are on duty at city schools, to be armed while students and staff were present.

The matter came before the school board where it was rejected unanimously, 10-to-zero, after a vigorous debate, with arguments being presented on both sides. Ms Glenn said that as a result, she was going to withdraw the Bill because it would have no chance given the total opposition of the school board, and the Mayor.

Ironically, those same police officers *do* carry their firearms while at the school, but only before and after teaching hours. Baltimore is the only part of Maryland where the schools are patrolled by Police officers. Elsewhere, the duty falls to local sheriff departments, and these officers *are* armed.

Grant –



Gary –




While we often hear about the political activities of the NRA, usually in a bad light from the mainstream media, we hear less about what it does to promote the shooting and outdoor sports at a grass-roots level.

One thing it does do is sponsor the “Great American Outdoor Show” every year in the PA State capital of Harrisburg. This year, the NRA announced $50,000 in grants, in advance of the Show. This brings the total grants to almost $250,000 in the last five years.

This year, grants go to six organizations.

The Susquehanna Township Police Department will get money to purchase on-body cameras for their police officers.

The Pennsylvania American Legion in Wormleysburg will get help to support their State Police Youth Week firearms training course for high school juniors and seniors.

The York Rifle Range Association will get money to supports its youth air rifle program.

The South Mountain YMCA Camps will get important dollars to support archery, air rifle, trap shooting and 22 rifle for children age six to seventeen.

The Pennsylvania Rifle and Pistol association will receive a grant to expand junior shooting programs across the state, and finally,

The Palmyra Sportsmen’s Association will receive a grant to promote national programs in competitive shotgun, in the Harrisburg area

Like any large organization there are things to like and things to dislike about the NRA, but let’s not forget about the good that they do for us, and the next generation.



Gun Quotes

(suggestion by Grant: “I didn’t serve 20 years to come home and have politicians trash the Bill of Rights”, and that’s from retired Air Force Colonel Val Finnel, speaking in Pittsburgh recently.)

More: http://www.catb.org/esr/fortunes/rkba.html


Hang on everybody, we’ll be back.

5- DGUs  (at beginning) These discussions are NOT legal advice. Some of us are trainers, but this is not formal training and YOU NEED formal training. The Defensive Gun Use segment is intended as information, NOT as training. As always the opinions of the hosts are only their own opinions and not those of any sponsors or other affiliations.

Grant  – Sumter, South Carolina

The truth will always come out.

Police were called out to the Manchester Road area recently to investigate a report of shots fired.  They talked to two women who were robbed at gunpoint by a man who pulled up behind their vehicle as they were parked in the driveway of a residence.  He told them to hand over their purses and jewelry.

After complying, but still fearing for her safety, one of the women retrieved a handgun from inside the vehicle and fired in the direction of the robber, who then drove off.

About 30 minutes later, Police went to an area hospital to check on a man who had come in with a gunshot wound.  The man told police that he had been shot in the Manning and Atlantic Avenues area. They investigated and found no evidence that shots had been fired in that area.

They were able to link a vehicle seen in the area of the earlier robbery, and the description of the robber, back to the man being treated.  He was arrested and booked on various charges, after being treated and released by the hospital.


John – Inkster, Michigan

Parking spots are not really to die for.

What started as a dispute over a parking spot ended up with the death of one of two men.  The 34 year old Dearborn, Michigan man got into an argument over a spot with a 25 year old man at an Inkster gas station.  The younger man punched the other man but didn’t knock him down. He then backed off.

The Dearborn man then pulled his gun and chased and confronted the younger man.  He pointed his gun, but the younger man pulled out his own weapon and fired shots at Dearborn man

He remained at the scene and surrendered his firearm to police.  Although he was originally the aggressor in the altercation, he had broken off the engagement and was aggressor no longer.

Wayne County Prosecutor Kym Worthy said, “The 25-year-old had the right to use deadly force to defend himself because he had a reasonable belief that imminent death or great bodily harm would occur. For this reason the warrant for his arrest has been denied.”

The incident had been captured on video surveillance.


Gary – Festus, Missouri

Nothing good happens after midnight.

Police were called to a home at 3:45 AM and found couple with their son dead from a gunshot wound.

The father told police that his son has been drinking earlier and he found him on top of his mother with his hands around her neck.  The father hit his son in the back of his head with the butt of a revolver.

The son got off his mother and threw the father across the room.  He made threats to his life. He told him, “Now you have messed up, and advanced towards the older man.

The disparity in age between the 63 year old father and the 29 year old son left the man fearing his son.  He fired several shots.

Police arrested and booked the man on suspicion of murder but released him pending application of warrants.  The mother did have minor injuries.


John – Jefferson County, MO has a bad problem with meth and opioids. I’m wondering if either was involved in this incident.

Paul – Lulling, Louisiana

A man tried to rob a Thrift Village drug store on a Monday at 6PM.  He forced the clerk and pharmacist behind the counter and demanded drugs.

A scuffle started before the POGO practicing pharmacist pulled his weapon and fired at the masked man.  The criminal ran out of the store and went about 100 yards before collapsing behind the store.

He died where he lay.


John – Georgetown, South Carolina

What started with a carjacking, ended with the suspect in the hospital.

Two cars were stolen then one of the carjackers went to a Boost Mobile where he entered the store dressed as a woman and wearing a wig.  When he tried to rob the store at gunpoint, the clerk pulled his own weapon and a shootout broke out between the two. The suspect was shot and fled the scene.

He drove to a Sunoco station where he was picked up by a woman in a car that had  also been carjacked. She drove him to a hospital where his condition was found to be “stable”.

The woman was identified.  Both cars were tracked to their owners,  and carjacking warrants had been obtained for both suspects.


We post each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com  Please take a minute and share them with a friend.


6- E-mail, blog notes, and show close

Listener e-mail discussion

Paul: Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?

Rob- Disarming the Defenders- Socialist Politicians Sacrifice our Children in “Gun-Free” Zones

My articles are up at Clash Daily, at Ammoland and at my blog, slow facts dot wordpress dot com.  John, tell us what’s new at your blog no lawyers only guns and money.

As I said in personal news, I attended the SHOT Show. I put up a longer post with my reflections on the show. In essence, there was little really new stuff released and a lot of line extensions. Mossberg and Stoeger introduced handguns for the first time in years and some AR manufacturers are adding bolt action rifles. Ultimately, for me, the SHOT Show is about the people and I was able to catch up with a lot of old friends.

That and more is at only guns and money dot blogspot dot com.

Facebook listeners group

Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast.  I’d like to thank (Guests) for joining us today. So for Amy, Tracy, Belle, Dana, Douglas, Gary, John, Rachel, Susan, Grant and Rob,

(Paul, stop talking now)

Grant: Until the next time…

Gary: stay safe,

Grant: be aware,

John: and we’ll see you down the road.

Episode 480 – Kevin Sona and Derek LeBlanc


Paul: Welcome to the polite society podcast powered by the Firearms Policy Coalition recorded on Monday, January 21, 2019, I’m Paul Lathrop

Rob: I’m Rob Morse, and we’ll talk with Kevin Sona about what Florida Carry is up to next month.

Grant: I’m Grant Gallagher, and we’ll talk to Derek Leblanc about real pro safety legislation in Oregon.

Tracy: I’m Tracy Thronburg, and we’ll learn about how the state of Iowa is upsetting the Brady Campaign.

Gary: I’m Gary Daugherty and we have a DGU over pancakes… so climb aboard

Tracy: strap in

Grant : and hang on!

Paul: episode 480 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.

Show intro music

Personal news from each participant (when you are done with your segment please ask the next person what has been up with them)

Rob- Talked with Brett Grayson of Tactical Pay Radio, and I carried every day.


Tracy – Yesterday, I was a student in Hock Hockheim’s hand, stick, knife, and gun class, held at KR Training. I spent the better part of yesterday using my training knife and sparring with Karl Rehn, practicing elasticity drills, blocks, punches, and all kinds of other fun self-defense stuff that you hope you’ll never have to use. I taught some private lessons last week, and carried every day.

Grant – it’s been a quiet week here. I had my sixty-first birthday this week. The usual Thursday night range time was themed “Aim Small, Miss Small” where we were shooting 1 inch dots with three different guns the 365, the 320 and the 229.  PAUL TURNS 50 THIS YEAR!!!!!


I carried every day!  Happy Birthday Grant

Promo about upcoming training classes here.

Tracy – KR Training assistant instructor, Becky Dolgener, and I will be teaching two ladies’ only classes on Saturday, March 30. Basic Pistol 1 will run from 9-12. We will break for an on-site lunch, and then basic pistol 2 will run from 1-5. John Murphy will be at KR Training on February 16-17, teaching Concealed Carry: Two person tactics and Concealed Carry: Vehicle Environment Skills. I’ll be taking those classes as a student, so if you’ve wanted to come shoot down in Texas, here is your chance. Visit www.krtraining.com to see a listing of upcoming classes or to sign up for a class. I will be teaching a MAG-20 range later on in the year, probably in late September or in October; so, if you’ve had the MAG-20 classroom but not the range portion, this will be your opportunity to come take the MAG-20 range. Upon successful completion of the MAG-20 classroom and MAG-20 range, you are eligible to take the written test and earn your MAG-40 certificate. Stay tuned for more updates on this.

Paul –

Gary- POGOShirt.com Discount Code: PSP for 10% off everything in the store.

Ask listeners to listen to other shows on the network, name at least 2 shows.


2- News

POLITE SOCIETY NEWS, January 21st 2019

Hi everyone. Please remember to send your comments on the news to “onair@politicsandguns.com”



Middle schools in Butler County, Iowa, will introduce two-week long gun safety courses for their students this spring. The demand for the courses was driven by the popularity of hunting and other outdoor activities. A recent tragic accident involving a local student also moved the training forward. The course will be delivered to all 7th and 8th grade students.

An advocate for the course said that educating children in school was a lot better than having them find out on the street, and that with the number of local gun owners, it was important that schools do their part.

The course will be overseen by the local Conservation Board. They will address it from a hunting perspective and will cover general Hunter Ed, how firearms work, and safe gun handling.  The firearms used will be non-functioning training guns, incapable of firing live or blank ammunition. All the middle school parents have approved.

A spokesperson for the Brady Campaign disagreed with the course saying that Middle schoolers don’t have the cognitive abilities of adults and likely will not distinguish between loaded and unloaded guns. Butler County School Superintendent Foster disagreed however, saying that this decision was not political, “we just felt it was the right thing to do,” he said.



Rob- Brady campaign offers us their fantasy rather than offering facts.

Grant – this is an excellent idea. 7th and 8th graders are well capable of understanding this. It’s time schools stopped treating our kids as if they are infants

Paul – I think the brady campaign thinks that a 70 year old general who has been around weapons their entire career would be unable to distinguish the diff



We recently described a call for “Common Sense Gun Control” by Virginia Governor Northam. Well, we can happily report that things are *not* going his way.

Republicans on a House “Militia, Police and Public Safety” subcommittee used their 4-2 majority and systematically voted down more than a dozen Democratic gun control bills, including the governor’s red-flag proposal. The Virginia Senate version of the red flag bill was also defeated. That makes a total of eleven bills stopped in committee.

In addition to the red-flag bill, other defeated bills would have: let localities ban guns in libraries and government buildings, banned magazines that hold more than 10 rounds, required universal background checks for gun buyers, restored the state’s former one-handgun-a-month policy, and let localities ban guns at permitted events such as demonstrations and gatherings.

The hearing opened to a packed room, including representatives from the Bloomberg Red-Shirt moms. The Virginia Citizens’ Defense League representative Philip Van Cleave stayed to the end and called the outcome “incremental progress”, warning that numerous gun control bills remained active in the VA Senate and House of Delegates.

Others were more hopeful, predicting that none of the Bills would come to the floor of either House for a vote. Lower House Speaker Kirk Cox said the the Virginia house GOP will fight  steadfastly to defend the Second Amendment rights of law-abiding citizens from far-left gun control proposals.



Rob- As of this afternoon, the total number of stopped gun control bills is up to 26.



The city of Austin is not only the Live Music Capital of the world, but it is probably the home for the largest number of California transplants to Texas. These immigrants have brought their California anti-gun ideals with them.

The city outlawed concealed firearm carry in city hall. This led to six Texans being charged for violating these regulations. That’s when the city was sued over the rule, and the city lost.

The local Travis County District Court ruled that Austin could not ban guns inside the City Hall, and that they should pay a fine of $1,500 dollars for each of the previously convicted violations.

The lawsuit was brought in 2016, by the Texas Attorney General, who argued that the ban contravened the State’s Open Carry Law.

Attorney General Paxton said that the city of Austin cannot violate Texas law simply because they disagree with it. He added that if the City of Austin appealed the decision, his office would continue to defend the right of law-abiding Texans. Activists intend to use this decision against other cities who have enacted similar laws as Austin.

The city is considering an appeal.

Rob- fines accumulate at the rate of 1500 dollars a day, and are at about 800 thousand dollars..and counting.

Grant- cities have the ability to spent local taxes to defend their partisan rulings.. And Texas is using taxpayer $$ to sue them.. So all of this is being paid for by taxpayers…







Gun Quotes- Gun Control is the theory that people who are willing to ignore laws against rape, torture, kidnapping, theft and murder will obey a law which prohibits them from owning a firearm. Source unknown.

Hang on everybody, we’ll be back with our guests Kevin Sona and Derek LeBlanc.


3- Interview 1

Kevin Sona- open carry when camping evolved into a gun conference under canvas. GRPC light. We now need a larger campground.

4- Interview 2

Derek Leblanc


5- DGUs  (at beginning) These discussions are NOT legal advice. Some of us are trainers, but this is not formal training and YOU NEED formal training. The Defensive Gun Use segment is intended as information, NOT as training. As always the opinions of the hosts are only their own opinions and not those of any sponsors or other affiliations.

Paul – Richmond, Virginia

In what appears to have been another in a series of robberies at knife point, this time the police believe they have their man, or rather two brothers and a female friend.  The robberies have been taking place over the last couple weeks around Richmond.

Included in the string is an attempted robbery at the Cary Street Mini-Mart by a man with a knife.  Elias Haddad had bad memories brought back from the incident. His dad got hit before and stabbed in the neck.

Haddad’s wife was at the register when a knife-wielding robber stormed in.  Haddad acted as though we was complying with the man’s demand for money but pulls his gun and fires.

The would-be robber ducked and ran.

Police believe he is the same man who robbed a 7-Eleven a few hours later.  Undercover officers were soon on the suspects’ trail. After a traffic stop and a short foot chase, the two brothers and the female were all arrested.

They are charged with several felonies and investigators are sorting out more than another dozen robberies to see which other ones the trio might be connected with.


Tracy – Pueblo, Colorado

A group of armed teens broke into a home through the back door at about 2:30 PM.  The suspects arrived at the victim’s home in a stolen car, broke in and took several items including a gun, jewelry and the keys to the homeowner’s car.

The robbery was caught on surveillance video and even shows one of them looking in the refrigerator.  You see them gather at the front window. They noticed a woman coming toward the house.

She had noticed the door ajar and went back for her pistol.  The woman was the homeowner’s mother and lived just across the street.

She approached slowly and warned the crooks that she was armed.  The three took off running out the back of the house.

Police have taken a 14-year-old boy into custody.  They are hoping for help to identify the other two.

Police found the homeowner’s car about a mile away.

Grant- why did she not call the police rather than fetching her gun?

Paul – POGO Good on her for not just blindly going toward the house


Huntsville, Alabama

A bad stack of pancakes at IHOP is no reason for a gun fight.  About 10 PM on a Wednesday night, Huntsville police received a call about a shooting at an IHOP.

A customer who was upset with service went to his car and came back into the restaurant with a gun.  He had come to pick up a carry out order. He became loud and disruptive regarding the service which escalated to a verbal then a physical altercation.  After the physical altercation, the customer pulled out a gun and started firing at employees. He struck two. One was killed and the other injured. The injured employee was carrying and returned fire, killing the attacker.  Both the employee and the gunman died at the scene and the injured employee was in stable condition.

The dead employee and the injured employee were father and son.

This criminal has been included in the gun memorial site for hoodlums turned martyrs.


Rob- The defender may have shot mass murder.

Grant – Indianapolis, Indiana

A 59 year old woman reported a burglary at a home she owns on the southeast side of Indianapolis.  The home has been recently sold and the closing was scheduled for Friday.

The homeowner’s son was watching the house prior to closing.  When the criminal pried open the front door just after sunset, he was shot and killed by that man.

“It’s important to see how much the homeowner did before he shot.  He had a friend call 911. He yelled out warnings. He told them to go away and only all that, he resorted to lethal force.  It’s exactly how stand your ground should work,” said attorney John Tompkins.

Attorney Tompkins is not connected with the case but agrees with the decision not to charge the son.

Two other suspects survived the shooting and the brothers are facing two counts of burglary and one count of felony murder.  One of the two confessed to breaking into the home a day earlier and were returning to steal a water heater at the time they were confronted by the son.

Two of the criminals killed in these DGUs are found in the gun control memorial site.


Paul – I

We post each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com  Please take a minute and share them with a friend.


6- E-mail, blog notes, and show close

Listener e-mail discussion

Paul: Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?

Rob- I wrote four articles this week. The latest is called “Learning Armed Defense is All of These”. We teach safety, marksmanship, concealed carry, and eventually, self-defense. We talk about education, instruction, practice, training and testing as if everyone used these terms correctly. We talk about one piece of armed-defense at a time and make it sound simple. That doesn’t mean it is easy. When it comes to self-defense, the entire body of knowledge is much more powerful than the sum of its parts.

My articles are up at Clash Daily, Ammoland, Full 30, and at my blog, slow facts dot wordpress dot com.

John, tell us what’s new at your blog no lawyers only guns and money.

Key Provisions Of Feinstein’s New AWB (Updated)

Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) reintroduced her assault weapon ban yesterday. It is S. 66 and has been referred to the Senate Judiciary Committee. The bill has 28 co-sponsors – 27 Democrats and one Independent (Bernie Sanders).

That and more is at only guns and money dot blogspot dot com.

Facebook listeners group

Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast.  I’d like to thank Kevin Sona and Derick Leblanc for joining us today.  So for Amy, Tracy, Belle, Dana, Gary, John, Rachel, Susan, Grant and Rob,

(Paul, stop talking now)

Rob: Until the next time…

Gary: stay safe,

Tracy: be aware,

Grant: and we’ll see you down the road.

Episode 479 – Rory Miller


Paul: Welcome to the polite society podcast powered by the Firearms Policy Coalition recorded on Monday, January 14, 2019, I’m Paul Lathrop.

Rob: I’m Rob Morse and we’ll talk with Rory Miller about how we think about and misapprehend violence.

Belle: I’m Belle McCormack, and we’ll talk about getting rid of gun free zones in Wyoming.

Tracy: I’m Tracy Thronburg, and we’ll learn about new proposed gun control legislation in both the house and the senate.

Gary: I’m Gary Daugherty and in one of our DGUs a woman broke the law to save her life… so climb aboard

Belle: strap in

Rob: and hang on!

Paul: episode 479 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.

Show intro music.

Personal news from each participant (when you are done with your segment please ask the next person what has been up with them)

Rob- Bought some gun parts for test and evaluation. I’ll let you know how it goes. Carried every day. Should have done some dry practice and range practice. I hope to this week.



Tracy – I taught handgun fundamentals and several lessons last week, and on Saturday, I learned how to safely use my chainsaw, and I got to cut down an oak tree. I had received the chainsaw as a Valentine’s day gift last year, but didn’t want to use it until I had someone show me about maintenance and how to safely use it. I had so much fun!

Belle-I have been taking a bit of time to enjoy the outdoors, we’ve had some cold but sunny weather. My little girl finished wrestling season and jumped into BJJ, so crazy practice schedule continues. The WA ST IDPA Championship opens for registration tomorrow January 15th, bracing myself for the chaos that will happen there. Going to shoot some IDPA for the next couple weekend til classes start in February.

Grant- I’ve been quite busy on the shooting front. On Thursday night three of us met up at the range to play with our 365s – it seems we all prefer someone else’s gun to shoot with! I also went to the official open day of a new range in Wayne, up north in New Jersey. It’s a really great facility with a broad offering of guns to rent and a well-designed 25 yrd range, where shooters can send targets to any distance, program them to turn and so on. If you live in that area it’s well worth a look. It’s called “Reloaderz NJ” and it’s at 1813 Rt 23 in NJ. They also have their own Well-Armed Women Chapter, which is an added plus. Finally, I taught a civilian TASER class on Sunday. I’m hoping this useful little non-lethal defense tool will take off in NJ.


Promo about upcoming training classes here.

Ask listeners to listen to other shows on the network, name at least 2 shows.


2- News

POLITE SOCIETY NEWS, January 14th 2019

Hi everyone. Please remember to send your comments on the news to “onair@politicsandguns.com”




A bill overriding local gun control laws has been introduced in the Wyoming legislature. It has very strong support in both the state Senate and Assembly, with almost half of each chamber already signed on as co-sponsors.

The Bill would repeal most gun-free zones and allow concealed weapon permit holders to carry pretty much anywhere. The bill also clarifies that only the State Legislature may regulate firearms, weapons and ammunition, thereby introducing State Preemption.

The proposed legislation would preempt bans on firearms in all public schools, colleges and universities, as well as government meetings, and college and professional athletic events, opening them for concealed carry.

As you might expect, there is some debate around the concept, with educational representatives and local officials falling on either side of the Bill. Two years ago, the State passed a Bill that allows individual school districts to decide whether staff should be allowed to carry their firearms in school, for example. Currently, Wyoming does not allow concealed carry on college or university campuses either.

The Bill is waiting to be assigned to committee, so it’s still in its early days.

So, write and tell us what you think. Should there be State Preemption, or should individual cities and districts decide firearms policy? Should adult students and staff be allowed to carry on campus if they choose? Our email address is: onair at politics and guns dot com



Rob- We already know about the bill. What we’ll discover is the character of the Wyoming legislature when they assign the bill to committee. With half the legislature as co-sponsors.




As promised, Federal Democrats have wasted little time in introducing “common sense” gun control Bills.

In the Assembly, the push so far has been on the so-called “gun show loophole” with a Bill that would prevent private, person-to-person sales and require all gun sales to go through the 4473 system. Interestingly, several Republican members of the House are co-sponsoring, from New York, New Jersey and Florida.

In the Senate, the push is to resurrect the so-called “assault weapons” ban, with a list of 205 guns banned by name. Also banned are: devices that increase rate of fire (including, but not restricted to, bump stocks), banning AR/AK style pistols and the pistol brace, and magazines with capacity of over 10 rounds. So far, the list of 205 banned firearms does not seem to be available. Most interestingly, the bill also proposes banning alternative stocks that do not include a pistol grip, but designed to “circumvent gun control”.

Also in the Senate, Republican Marco Rubio has introduced a bill for a Federal Red Flag law, similar to the one that New Florida Senator Scott signed while he was governor.

These Bills and many others are introduced under cover of preventing mass murder tragedies such as the one at Parkland.

However, no-one seems to be introducing federal legislation that would bring in a National “FASTER” program, or deal directly with the facts of the Parkland report – that only armed volunteers on scene, willing to engage a threat directly and immediately, have the chance to minimize the number of injuries.

What do you think? What would *you* do to protect children in your schools? Does banning guns work or is “protecting children” just a cynical ploy to disarm the population? You can write to us at: onair at politics and guns dot com.



Rob- John Lott said that 65% of mass. Gun control doesn’t have to make us safer. It only has to sound good on TV.





New Florida Governor Rick De Santis has acted on the final report of the Parkland mass murder and fired the Sheriff of Broward County, Scott Israel, whose policies and procedures governed the disastrous response to the attack.

He has been replaced with Sheriff Gregory Tony, by the new Governor.

Former Sheriff Israel was very vocal in the calls for additional gun control following the murders, and led the attack against the NRA in the shameful CNN Round Table that took place shortly after.

It was only later that it became apparent that his department, and others, had multiple opportunities to prevent the event from ever happening. It also recently became clear that members of this sheriff’s department were in no hurry to enter the school after they arrived on the scene. This not only allowed the murderer to kill more defenseless individuals, but to actually escape the scene completely.

Let’s hope that this is only the first step that new Governor De Santis takes to provide posthumous justice to the dead and their families.

Please, write and tell us what you think about this whole affair, and what it tells us about local government in general. You can email us at: onair at politics and guns dot com.



Rob- Israel’s political allies didn’t save him.

Paul – At risk of sounding crass…




MA Attorney General Maura Healey made a blatant attack on firearms owners and retailers two years ago. She introduced an enforcement notice that banned all AR and AK pattern rifles in the Commonwealth. She did this with little consultation and almost no notice.

Not surprisingly, Massachusetts firearm retailers, supported by the National Shooting Sports Foundation sued. More surprisingly they won. Of course, AG Healey appealed the case.

The First Circuit court of the US Court of Appeals dismissed Healey’s appeal. That leaves the suit open to go forward and challenge the attorney general’s enforcement notice. The decision against Healey’s appeal was swift and merciless, stating that she had indeed denied due process to those retailers affected.

The attorney for the retailers and NSSF said that AG Healey’s appeal was frivolous, and that she had overstepped her legal authority in issuing the Notice back in 2016.

Quote, “because criminal penalties can result due to Healey’s unilateral reinterpretation of a state statute, done without administrative process or input from affected parties, her office exceeded its lawful authority….  retailers were deprived of their due process protections under the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments. Attorney General Healey’s action is unconstitutional.”

Of course, this isn’t the end of the matter and of course, the MA State AG has what amounts to limitless funds to fight her case in court. This is a good start, but the issue is far from settled.

So, have you seen similar fights in your state? What do you think of officials who decide to “reinterpret” the law? Write to us at: onair at politics and guns, and tell us.



Paul- Gun Quotes- The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them.  ..to cover with the veil of secrecy the common routine of business, is an abomination in the eyes of every intelligent man, and every friend to his country. Patrick Henry

Hang on everybody, we’ll be back with our guest Rory Miller.


3- Interview 1- Rory Miller.


Conflict Communication

4- Interview 2

5- DGUs  (at beginning) These discussions are NOT legal advice. Some of us are trainers, but this is not formal training and YOU NEED formal training. The Defensive Gun Use segment is intended as information, NOT as training. As always the opinions of the hosts are only their own opinions and not those of any sponsors or other affiliations.

Gary – Chicago, Illinois
Civil disobedience.  Refusing to go along with a law because it is unlawful or immoral.  For a 25 year old Chicago woman, it saved her life potentially.

She was sitting at the bus stop at 5:45 AM recently when a 19 year old man wearing a hoodie approached her.  He pulled a gun and attempted to rob her. The woman is a concealed carry holder and was armed as well.

She pulled out her own weapon and shot the attempted robber in the neck.  The suspect ran from the scene and was found a block away. He was taken to the hospital where he died.  He lived about a block away from where he was shot. The autopsy found that he died of a gunshot wound, and his death was ruled a homicide.

Reports have the would-be robber stealing her gun from her before running and the police were still looking for both guns.  Surveillance video from two different cameras show the man approaching the woman but then jump to her on the ground and the man running away.  From all stories, this is should be listed as a justifiable homicide.

This budding career criminal was listed on the Gun Control Memorial site.



Paul – She obviously needs more training than the Illinois government requires.

Grant – yes – bus stops are like elevators – normal personal space distances are much reduced

Grant – Little Rock, Arkansas
The list keeps growing of things not to bring to a gunfight.  The list now includes knife, machete, samurai sword, club-style weapons, or fists.

Last week, police were called to an apartment in Little Rock for a homicide.  They reported that a 59 year old man attacked a 65 year old man with a “club style weapon”.  The older man shot and killed his attacker. The older man was taken to the hospital for treatment of head injuries.

The victim’s brother was the one who called 911.

The victim is the property manager of the apartments and based on statements by police will not be charged.  The case is being sent to the Pulaski County Prosecutor’s Office for review.


Paul – yet another


Rob- Cleveland, Ohio
Two men walked into Paul’s Serve Rite Food Market in Cleveland central neighborhood. They had hoods pulled up tight over their heads and scarves covering their faces.

The 59 year old store owner and his 70 year old employee repeatedly instructed the duo to take off their hoods.  They refused, pulled out guns and demanded the men give them the money from the cash register.

A third employee was working the register and handed the man the drawer, which had about $80 in it.

The 70 year old saw the robbers with their guns out and pulled out his own gun, firing four shots.  The owner was also armed and he fired once. The two ran from the store and went in different directions.

The suspects did not appear to be injured. There were 5 children in the store at the time and thankfully, none of them was hurt either.  The duo was still being sought.


Paul – At least 5 shots were fired and NO HITS?!?! Training anyone?


We post each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com  Please take a minute and share them with a friend.


6- E-mail, blog notes, and show close

Email address onair@politicsandguns.com phone # 605-215-1438

Listener e-mail discussion-

Rob- Joseph from New Jersey sent us a picture of a letter from the Bergen county prosecutor. Law enforcement officers, including those who are “on call” are not allowed to have a firearms magazine with greater than 10 rounds. That law should be revised, but it applies as written.

Rob- Why?

Gary- Email from Val

Several times now Rob has mentioned that some 90% of Red Flag Law confiscations get reversed in court.

I can’t find any support for that fact, and would like to have the source to use.

So, can you cite a source?

As long as we’re talking about the Red Flag Laws, how can people not see that these are purely and simply a gun confiscation tactic. If they were about protecting people, why are the victims left with their vehicles, gas cans, chain saws, axes, and all sorts of other dangerous things?



Rapid City

Grant: Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?


My articles are up at Clash Daily, at Ammoland and at my blog, slow facts dot wordpress dot com. .

That and more is at only guns and money dot blogspot dot com.

 Grant  Facebook listeners group

Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast.  I’d like to thank (Rory Miller) for joining us today. So for Amy, Tracy, Belle, Dana, Douglas, Gary, John, Rachel, Susan, Grant and Rob,

(Paul, stop talking now)

Rob: Until the next time…

Tracy: stay safe,

Belle: be aware,

Gary: and we’ll see you down the road.

Episode 376 – Troy Clopton and Greg Hopkins

Full Episode Download:

1- Open and Personal News Segment

2- News Segment 1

3- Interview Segment 1: Troy Clopton

4- Interview Segment 2: Greg Hopkins

5- DGU Segment:

6- Email and Show Close:


1- Introduction

Paul: Welcome to the polite society podcast sponsored by the Firearms Policy Coalition recorded on Thursday May 5th 2016 (Still getting over my May the 4th hangover), I’m Paul Lathrop

Rob: I’m Rob Morse, and on tonight’s show we will talk with Troy Clopton and Greg Hopkins about Guns and the Christian faith.

John: I’m John Richardson, and we’ll talk about promoting guns on college campus.. Without being arrested.

Gary: I’m Gary Daugherty and in one of our DGU’s A young man tried to rob a concealed carry holder with a bb gun.  You can guess how that ended..  so climb aboard

Susan: strap in

John : and hang on!

Paul:  episode 376 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.

Show intro music.


Personal news from each participant (when you are done with your segment please ask the next person what has been up with them)


Rob- I created a new website called Everyone for Gun Safety.  Some Washington Lawyers suggested I stop using my old wordpress site Everytown for gun safety.  And I’m reading three gun books.


John – Barb and I had a great weekend at the East TN Blogger Shoot. We met up on Friday night for dinner with Dennis giving us a tour of his holster workshop. Then on Saturday we spent all day at the range despite torrential rain later in the day. There was a lot of “here, try this pistol” or “may I try your .357 mag lever action” throughout the day. We had great food, great company, and a great time. Then yesterday I had coffee with Andy Langlois who runs the Scout Rifle Forum and is the maker of the Ching Sling.


Gary – Getting ready for MAG40

Paul/Susan Final week before MAG 40. Really getting rushed with preparations.


Promo about upcoming training classes here.



2- News 1

There is room for liberty on campus.. Even in Texas.  Nicole Sanders and a fellow activist were recruiting students on the Brenham campus of Blinn College to join Young Americans for Liberty, a student organization Sanders was forming. The two held signs for an hour and a half outside of the student center. One sign read “LOL,” with the Obama presidential campaign logo replacing the “O,” and another sign stated, “Defend Gun Rights on Campus.”

After they were done recruiting, Sanders and her friend went into the student center, where they were approached by an administrator and three armed campus police officers. The administrator told them they needed “special permission” to collect sign-ups for their club and display their signs. The official then added, “I don’t know that you can get special permission” to advocate for gun rights, explaining that she was not against guns, but “on campus, I’m not so sure.” Sanders later requested clarification from a different administrator, who sent her copies of two college policies, one of which required that student organizations request permission a month in advance and gain approval from four administrators for any on- or off-campus expressive activity.


The contest about who is allowed to speak and carry signs ended with Blinn College paying 50 thousand dollars for damages and attorney fees.


Well done.. And let’s “Defend Gun Rights on Campus.”

John – Good for Nicole. Too bad Georgia Gov. Nathan Deal, a NRA A+ rated Republican, didn’t listen to her. He vetoed campus carry yesterday which had easily passed the GA Legislature.


Another record month of background checks

According to AWR Hawkins over at Breitbart April set the 12th record month in a row of background checks for retail gun sales.  Background checks performed in April was 2,145,865. That beats the previous April record of 1,742,946, which was set in 2014. This streak should continue, and if it looks like Hillary may actually win her bid for the White house expect to see it explode, and another round of gun and ammo shortages hit your local gun store.


Rob- 23 percent year to year is substantial growth.


Sheldon Silver gets a 12 year sentence

Former New York state assembly speaker and one of the authors of the New York SAFE act Sheldon Silver was sentenced to 12 years in prison this week for corruption. In addition to the prison term Sheldon was ordered to repay 5.2 million in ill gotten gains and pay a 1.75 million dollar fine. Sheldon must report to the prison by July 1st to start serving his sentence.


Rob- Convicted felon Sheldon Silver was a very strong supporter for Hillary Rodham Clinton

Gary – Unfortunately you are the only person saying it, we won’t see that in the press.


Obama going after gun rights through Social Security.

Katie Pavlich over at Townhall is reporting that the Obama administration is trying again to push through a requirement that all recipients of Social Security that get their benefits through a third party be submitted to the federal NICS system and have their 2nd amendment rights stripped. This is a trap that will possibly ensnare millions of Social Security recipients who may for convenience decide that they would like some help with their financial affairs. This is a move that we have reported on before, but it looks like the Obama administration is getting serious about moving forward on this quickly.


John – Adding another 4 million people to the NICS banned list makes me angrier than you can image. It is unconscionable to these people and to veterans who fought for this country.

Gary –

Rob- Some of them are ill or undergoing medical treatment.  If you ask someone to pay your bills while you’re undergoing chemo then you lose your right to own or be near a firearm.


Beating on the Chicago “EL”

A student was attacked on the CTA Blue Line in broad daylight – and she says other people on the train just watched as she was beaten. (WLS)


Chicago DePaul student Jessica Hughes was on her way home when she was attacked while sitting in a rail car near the Blue Line stop at Harrison and Kedzie. The attack happened around 10am on Thursday morning.


“If you were seeing someone else getting abused, wouldn’t you want to step in?” Hughes said.


Hughes said that perhaps more painful than the beating she took at the hands of two robbers while riding the “L”, is that fellow passengers who saw the attack, did nothing to stop it.


“I was yelling for help. There were two other guys on the train and they did nothing. They just watched as he beat me,”


Her 19 y.o. Attacker wanted her iPhone and started beating her when she would not let go. His female accomplice then punched her in the face before fleeing at the next stop without the iPhone.


Hughes suffered a broken nose but is recovering at home. She is not sure when or if she will take the train again given the attack.


Police said they are looking at surveillance video as they continue to search for the attackers. So far, no one is in custody.


Rob- People watched as this young woman was beaten in broad daylight .. in a gun free zone.

Gary –

John – Gary, Is pepper spray also banned?


Gun Quotes-  This one is from Michael Beard.  Michael said, “I would agree that clearly, no law is going to prevent criminals from getting handguns or any kind of weapons they want.. You can’t stop criminals from getting guns”  Michael Beard was the executive director of the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence.


Hang on everybody, we’ll be back with our guests Troy Clopton and Greg Hopkins.



4- Interview 1-Troy Clopton of god and guns podcast


5- Interview 2- Greg Hopkins about Guns and the Christian faith. He is the author of A Time to Kill: The Myth of Christian Pacifism

Rob- You sound certain.  Why is this contentious?


6- DGUs


We’ve got a number of self defense stories – unfortunately, with more than usual lessons to be learned.


Real vs. Fake Gun – Which One Wins?

A Millennial brought a BB gun to a gunfight — and whadayaknow — lost.   

The Boston area teen offered to sell a dirt bike to a 31-year-old man. They settled on a 700 buck price and agreed to meet in a quiet, family neighborhood to complete the deal.  However, the 15-year-old had something other than honest capitalism in mind; he packed a realistic looking BB gun.

When the teenager produced the gun, there was an immediate struggle for the weapon. During the fight, the victim was able to get to a pistol he had in his truck. He fired three times, striking the crook once. The ventilated criminal ran off, but collapsed nearby.  Police arrived to take the thuglet to the hospital, where his condition has not been released due to his age. He will eventually be charged with Armed Robbery While Masked. The investigation is continuing, but to date no charges have been filed against the victim, who is licensed to carry a gun. The victim wisely refused to discuss the shooting with local media. The area’s residents seemed generally supportive of the victim, despite the gunplay that shattered their neighborhood’s quiet.

When looking at this incident, we must again reiterate the dangers of these Craigslist type of sales. Please be hyper-aware and utilize police parking lots to make the transactions, if possible. And if licensed, it is nearly always better to carry on body, instead of nearby. Leaving the gun in the truck could have proved disastrous to the gentleman. For the Millennial, we hope he will learn something from this experience and straighten out… We can always hope.  


Paul – Play stupid games win stupid prizes – POGO

Rob- Consider the options.  The gun is usually real, not a bb bun.  Carry, because you don’t know when criminals will attack you.


80-Year-Old Stops Brutal Attack By 25-Year-Old

Talk about disparity of force: a 25-year-old intruder with a large knife was stabbing a 75-year-old man on the floor. Fortunately, his 80-year-old wife had an equalizer.


Investigating the late-night sounds of a door being kicked in, the woman found her husband on the floor, with a man with a large knife standing over him. She ran to a bedroom and got a gun and shot the attacker several times, saving her husband from additional wounds. He was airlifted to Seattle hospital with several abdominal stab punctures, but is expected to survive. His assailant did not.

Police determined that the criminal (excuse us: the person involved in the <quote> “Justice” <end quote> system) lived several miles away from the couple’s’ rural Snohomish County, Washington home. Police believe the perpetrator did not know the victims; this seems a random crime; perhaps the house was chosen for it’s remote location.   


We certainly commend the woman’s courage and skill. However, we will point out that several precious seconds could have been saved it the couple were wearing their firearms. We will continue to advocate for POGO: Pants On – Gun On, even if you are living your Golden Years in the beautiful Washington countryside. This is just one more instance where the possession of a firearm by law-abiding citizens prevented a tragedy that could well have included multiple murders.

Can you hear us now, Bloomberg?  


John – While the intruder may not have known his victims, I wonder if he went after them for drugs. Elderly people tend to be on more medications.

Pregnant Couple In Stand-Off With Armed Burglar
A young Tennessee couple faced a nightmare situation: a Mexican Stand-off with an armed intruder.

The couple returned home one evening and found several broken windows. They somehow decided to search their home with guns drawn. It was hardly surprising that they found a man in a closet, and that he had a gun. In a scene reminiscent of the classic The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly climax, the three faced each other over drawn guns. The couple recognized their 20-year-old neighbor and the woman’s pink handgun he was pointing at them. The criminal threatened the couple with death unless they disarmed, they refused and called 911. Making the best of an insane situation, the operator told the couple to stay on the phone and “keep your gun pointed. That way, if he shoots, you fire also.” <unquote>  Oy. <unquote>


When deputies arrived, they tried negotiating with the suspect still inside the house. The cornered criminal even called 911 to talk to the cops. “He counted down from 10. We heard “7”, then we heard a pop.” The suspect had taken his own life.

When analyzing this situation, there’s one very big DON’T DO! Never enter a building where a criminal is suspected of hiding. That’s for the police; they have the training, equipment and manpower to do that very dangerous task. Clearing a building can and does get people killed, even trained professionals. These two, and their unborn child, are VERY lucky they survived.

Stupidity kills. Even if Darwin happened to be looking the other way this time.  


Rob- Let’s look at what they did right.  They were carrying, and they did not lower their guard.


Boy Shoots a Home Invader, Who Cries Like a Baby

A Talladega, Alabama boy shot a home invader, making him cry like a widdle baby.  Chris Gaither, 11 was home alone when a burglar broke in. Scared, he grabbed a handgun and called for the burglar to leave the house. It seems the boy was surprised by the intruder coming down the stairs. The crook told the boy he was going kill him with all the usual colorful expletives.   


According to the news reports, the intruder made it to the front door before the boy started firing. The crook trundled across the yard and was about to jump a fence before the boy’s 12th and last round hit him in the leg.  “I shot through the hamper he was carrying,” Gaither said. “it was a full metal jacket bullet. It went straight through the back of his leg. He started crying like a little baby.” <unquote>


Police have not released the name of the suspect, nor his condition in the local hospital. Gaither’s mother believes the man has robbed their house before. The young marksman gives his stepdad all the credit for his shooting skills.

It goes without saying that we commend the bravery of the boy. However, we will once again reiterate that if the criminal is running away, the law in Tennessee and most states does not allow the victim to fire. Additionally, full metal jacketed bullets usually have no place in a self-defense firearm. Still, when this stout-hearted lad turns 18, we hope he gets his CCW, along with some additional training.


Paul – In SD the parent is liable (financially) for the actions of their children.


Rob- Good that he was armed.  Good that his parents exposed him to firearms and decided he was mature enough to use them.  Bad that he fired at a fleeing criminal.  The youngsters use of force may be justified since the criminal threatened him with death or great bodily harm.


John – I would make sure that the young man get some more training. If he only hit him with one out of 12 rounds, he needs more marksmanship training plus knowing when to not shoot.


CCW Intervenes in a Domestic Dispute Shooting — And is Killed
And finally, come a very harsh, very real aspect of our concealed carry life, one we feel our listeners need to take to heart.

T.J. Antell, 35, witnessed a domestic dispute turn to gunfire outside a Arlington, Texas Walgreen’s. Ricci Bradden, 22, shot his wife Quinisha once in the ankle and jumped in his truck to escape. Former Marine Antell ran to his own truck for his weapon and attempted to stop Bradden. The Army soldier got out of his truck, slapped down Antell’s firearm, and shot him in the head. The father of three died in the Walgreen’s parking lot in front of his wife, Crystal.  


“He went into protective mode. He’s a father, he’s protective by nature,” Antell’s pastor, Marc Lowrance, told reporters. “And he thought he could help everyone involved, and tragically it went a different way.” <unquote>

Tragic is a gross understatement. There’s nothing about a CCW license or training that guarantees a happy outcome. A very brave man put his life on the line attempting a citizen’s arrest of an armed and fleeing suspect. And unfortunately, he lost that bet, to the detriment of his family and to all of us that no longer have the company of such a fine man. One of the absolute rules of the armed citizen is that if you do not need to act to save life or limb, You. Should. Not. Act. Please honor the memory of T.J. Antell and keep that in mind. And maybe, spare a moment in prayer for this outstanding man and his family.  

Godspeed, T.J. Antell. Rest in Peace, Marine.  


Gary –

John –


We post each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com  Please take a minute and share them with a friend.



7- E-mail, blog notes, and show close


Listener e-mail discussion


Hello again from the Steel City!


Wanted to share my thoughts on a class I took over the weekend here in Pittsburgh. My skills with a carbine are somewhat lacking so I decided to take a “Carbine 1”: course taught locally here in the area. Class was $350 bucks. This is a rather long winded email, so feel free to edit this to fit for time purposes or as needed.


Here is what I was told via their web site.



  • Firearms Safety Rules
  • Developing Proper Situational Awareness
  • Carbine Zeroing
  • 7 Fundamentals of Carbine Marksmanship
  • Carbine Reloads and Malfunction Clearing
  • Carbine to Pistol Transitions
  • Proper Use of Cover and Concealment
  • Threat Discrimination
  • Standard and Non-Standard Shooting Positions
  • Shooting While Moving
  • Night Shoot / Low Light Exercise


Well let me say the course was not what it was built up to be. I could give you a blow by blow of the course but I’ll just give you the lowlights here.

1) We were told to bring a minimum of 500 rounds. After day one, he out loud questioned if 500 hundred rounds would be enough, then when all was said and done, Ii personally only got to shoot about 350 rounds (we all shot the same amount so I am sure most had extra ammo at the end. Some even went to the gun store to buy more after day 1 based on his comments.

2) His demeanor ranged from wanting to be our buddies more than teach us to downright belittling one student who was struggling.

3) Some brought his stated minimum number of 3 AR magazines then were criticized for not having enough and slowing the class down.

4) Several things we were to cover were simply not done. Two people said they needed to zero their rifles, he took about 15 minutes to help them then just said “Well that is good enough, you can work with that” The “7 fundamentals of carbine marksmanship” were not covered except for him to name them out to us on the firing line. We did ZERO malfunction drills. ZERO. Cover and concealment were not covered. All shooting was done standing on the firing line for all shooting. No shooting and moving. No night shoot.

5) the last hour and a half were spent with him giving his list of AR’s and equipment he recommends. And when i say recommends, if your not using what he uses, it’s junk. Example. “All pistols other than the Glock series and the S&W M&P series are junk.” Student who owns a Sig 226. “What about Sig’s?” Instructor “Sig’s are over engineered junk”.  Another example “The only AR you should get should be made by one of 3 companies. Bravo Compnay, Lurue. Or Colt. Anything else is junk.” Now mind you, I am smart enough to see the errors in his statements, but most of the class was nodding their heads and literally taking notes. One person behind me spoke to his wife (also attending the class) about his need to trade in this existing AR for one that the instructor mentioned.  

6) The instructors Bravo Company AR repeatedly jammed during class. He blamed this on new magazines he was trying out. I gave him one of my milspec Brownell mags to use to complete a drill he was trying to show us, The gun jammed again. At this point he performed the mortar technique to attempt to clear it and broke his stock then went into a tirade about  it.

7) He gave a long and rambling history of the AR which included many errors including that the US military adopted the AR15 as the M16 in 1957. His history also skipped the M-14 going direct from the M1 Garand to the M16.

8) We also were told at the end of the class that we as students had to pick up all the brass and place them in several buckets he had. When I mumbled out loud that he was probably going to reload our brass for himself, he heard and said, “Oh i donate all this to a local boy scout troop, they take it to be recycled”. OK fine, whatever. I doubt it but a paying customer should not have to be down on his or her knees for 30-45 mins of my class time picking up brass.

The class was an extreme disappointment. the instructor kept moving different parts of the class around and generally didn’t seem to have a grasp of what he was trying to accomplish. mind you, this guy has been in business for years. His main goal seemed to be to stroke his own ego. And the sad part is, many of the students were gladly signing up for his “Carbine 2” class offered later this year.


So how does one respond when you go to a class that is clearly not what we expect? Should I just consider this water over the dam and drop it? How can we as the consumer protect ourselves from getting sucked in by a slick website or someone promising all the right things in their ad’s.


Rob- the best recommendations are from students who’ve had a wide range of training.

John – ask other instructors who you trust to recommend someone in your area.




Last episode, you talked briefly with Grant Cunningham about carrying while on a motorcycle, and I have recently had a related topic come up – Bicycle carry.


I recently moved to a metropolitan area and landed an office job, and in an effort to keep a spare tire at bay, I’m going to take up bicycling for exercise.  Since I am in a large city, I would like to be able to carry while I’m on a bike, but my traditional IWB at 5:00 prints like a Deskjet when I’m bent over my bicycle, and clothing can ride up over it easily.  The fanny pack mentioned last episode sounds like a good idea, but does anyone else have experience with other carry methods that might work as well?  It needs to be resistant to clothing riding up over it, as well as the jostling you might expect if I take a bicycle over a curb or a busted-up sidewalk, and I would like to be able to wear reasonably light clothing while exercising.



Jake (from State Farm)


John – http://www.thewilderness.com/safepacker-concealment-holster/



Hi folks,

I just wanted to add to the conversation from the last podcast about shooting from bed.  I gave this some thought in our house.  I realized that my position in bed could have me firing at my daughter who is in line with me, 2 drywall walls away.  I have seen lots of ballistic penetration videos where this arrangement could be a real problem.  Now, will I be able to consider this alignment given the sleep inertia that Paul discussed?


Thanks for the great podcast.



Savage, MN



We got some text messages as well


A quick reporting regarding alien gear cloak tuck 3.0. Worn for 3 weeks, the metal insert began to cut the top where the leather and neoprene backing are stitched together. Relatively comfortable and had to change to metal clips as the plastic ones provided initially were not secure. Warranteed,but obviously would happen again so ordered a stealth gear. They are 45 day lead time, but I’ll send word once it’s tested etc.

TNJR (Tennessee Junior)




Afternoon crew,


Since I don’t own an AR (yet) my wife says I can have one under two conditions.

  1. Get a gun safe
  2. She wants one too

God I’m blessed 😊

I don’t know anything about gun safes other than I don’t want a cheap one that anyone can break into and I don’t want to break the bank either. Any recommendations on which brands you all like, what to look for in a quality safe etc etc would be helpful.


P.S. I need to hurry up and get this before Killary gets in office next January.


Thank you



CF: Worn an Alien Gear CloakTuck 3 almost daily for 6 months without a problem. Hmm. As for safes, I honestly believe Liberty Safes are the best value for the money: great safes and a greater company supporting them. (Full Disclosure: I’m the Liberty Safe Captain at the Gonne Shoppe. But, I’ve had a Liberty FatBoy Jr. in my basement before I started working there.)  



Regarding Richard’s shot timer question from episode 374, tell him to check out the Shotmaxx



From Jeff in Florida-

I heard you talking about using blue guns with students.  When I have a student point a blue gun at my right eye to check their sight alignment,  I make it very clear that this is an instructional exception.  In my opinion, and from my observation, the students then get it; better than they would have, the importance of muzzle awareness.


Rob- use a mirror.


Paul: Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?


Rob- I’m writing about the lives that gun owners saved in April.  Those articles will be up at Clash Daily, at Ammoland, and at my blog slow facts dot wordpress dot com.


John, tell us what’s new at your blog “only guns and money”


I have two blog posts of note that I’d like to highlight. The first was about Rev. Rob Schenk saying you can’t be pro-life and pro-gun. I disagree. The second was this morning and I confessed to being a liar. However, I lied when asked by my new internist’s medical office asst if there were any guns in the home. I said no because it was none of their business. Besides, I own firearms not guns so you could say that technically I didn’t lie.


That and more is at only guns and money dot blogspot dot com.


We would like to thank Charlie Foxtrot for writing up show notes for us. Even though you don’t hear him on the air he is certainly part of what you do hear. Look at his blog at not one more gun law dot blogspot dot com


Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast.  I’d like to thank (Troy Clopton and Greg Hopkins) for joining us today.  So for Charlie Foxtrot, Gary, Rob, John, Rachel and Susan,

(Paul, stop talking now)


Rob: Until the next time…

Gary: stay safe,

Paul: be aware,

John: and we’ll see you down the road.


(after show close) How could we have made this episode better?


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