Episode 421 – Amanda Suffecool and Paul Martin

Full Episode Download: http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/Episode20421.mp3

1- Open and Personal News Segment

2- News Segment

3- Interview Segment 1: Guest : Amanda Suffecool part 1

4- Interview Segment 2: Guest : Amanda Suffecool Part 2

5 – Interview Segment 3 : Guest : Paul Martin – Part 1

6 – Interview Segment 4: Guest : Paul Martin – Part 2

7- DGU Segment:

8- Email and Show Close:

 

1- Introduction

Paul: Welcome to the polite society podcast powered by the Firearms Policy Coalition recorded on Sunday September 2nd 2017, I’m Paul Lathrop

Rob: I’m Rob Morse and on tonight’s show we will talk with Amanda Suffecool about the concealed carry fashion shows she’s put on.

John: I’m John Richardson, and we’ll talk about the efforts of Chicago to prevent a gun store from opening.

Tracy Thronburg: I’m Tracy Thronburg and tonight we’ll talk with Paul Martin about prepping.. so climb aboard

Rob: strap in

John : and hang on!

Paul:  episode 421 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.

Show intro music.

 

Personal news from each participant (when you are done with your segment please ask the next person what has been up with them)

 

Rob- I read the Wren decision out of the DC appeals court. I recorded David Cole for Self-Defense Gun Stories. I carried every day. We dodged a hurricane, so it is still a little wet to go to the range. I did some dry practice indoors.

 

John- My week has had dual highlights. First, I had dinner – in person, mind you – with Paul on Wednesday as he was driving through with a load. Then, my granddaughter Olivia spent the weekend with us which is always a treat. I also attended the Greensboro, NC gun show with my son-in-law and his dad. My biggest take-away is that AR prices are way down – Ruger AR-556s for as low as $449 – and that the new short barreled firearms from Mossberg and Remington are big hits.

 

Tracy- I went to Camp Gladiator five days this week. I gave a retired husband and wife a lesson on Thursday night, where they quickly learned that good gear choices can make or break a private lesson, and I worked as the chief range safety officer at Shady Oaks Gun Range today in Cedar Park. I’m still on the lookout for a reliable source for gas for my Denali.

 

Paul/Susan

 

Promo about upcoming training classes here.

Promo about patches

Break

2- News 1

 

So Let It Be Written So Let It Be Done.

In July 2010, R. Joseph Franzese submitted an application for a business license. He proposed opening a gun shop called Second Amendment Arms (SAA). Franzese bought the property advertised as commercial property, but the city now claims it was not zoned as commercial. He contends the city will block a gun shop, no matter where it’s located. The Second Amendment Foundation became Franzese’s ally and backed a case challenging a ban of firearms sales within city limits. A federal court judge in Illinois denied a City of Chicago motion for summary judgment and refused to dismiss the case. Robert M. Dow, Jr., U.S. District Court Judge set Sept. 28 as the next date to discuss damages for the plaintiff in Second Amendment Arms v. City of Chicago.

Alan Gottlieb, SAF founder and Executive Vice President, said “The City of Chicago under Rahm Emanuel is trying to be too clever by half. We would have thought by now that they would have ceased this pattern of spending tens of thousands of taxpayer dollars on stubborn litigation, but the city seems determined to be dragged kicking and screaming into compliance with the Second Amendment. Since losing its gun ban fight in the Supreme Court’s 2010 McDonald ruling. Chicago has been digging its heels in deeper and deeper, throwing every kind of legal roadblock it could in an effort to delay what seems inevitable. The city has got to follow the law and the constitution, and as long as they keep fighting, we’ll keep suing. That’s what winning firearms freedom one lawsuit at a time is all about.”

 

John – What Chicago is engaging in is a form of “red-lining”. The use of zoning to keep out legal business. It was originally used to keep African Americans out of certain neighborhoods because mortgage companies wouldn’t lend to them.

 

Rob- I agree, John.  This is a civil rights violation and it has been going on for a very long time. Why is the city’s bigotry allowed to stand?  The city demands live fire before it will grant a permit.  A judge should demand that the city open police ranges to civilian use until a private company stands up.

 

Gary –

 

So, you think you have Constitutional Carry?

If you are not familiar with the work of John Lott, you are missing out on some valuable information.  His Crime Prevention Research Center published an article addressing limitations on Constitutional Carry in March of 2016. https://crimeresearch.org/2016/03/the-very-real-limits-on-constitutional-carry/

 

The focus of the article is the federal Gun Free School Zones Act.  This legislation was originally introduced by Senator Joe Biden and signed into law by President George H. W. Bush in 1990.  In 1995 this law was struck down by the U.S. Supreme Court.  This was a landmark decision.  It was the first time in over 50 years that the Supreme Court placed limits on Congress’ ability to legislate under the Commerce Clause.  In 1996, Congress massaged the language and reenacted this unconstitutional statute.

 

This statute criminalizes the possession of a firearm within 1,000 feet of the boundary of a school.  There are exceptions to this rule.  Unloaded firearms that are in locked containers in a vehicle are exempted.  Private property within 1,000 feet of the school boundary but not part of school grounds is also an exception.  Additionally, persons licensed to carry may be exempt.  However, you must have a license issued by the state in which the school district resides.

 

If you live in a Constitutional Carry state and you do not possess a state-issued license, you have a problem.  You are committing a crime if you find yourself carrying a firearm within 1,000 feet of a school boundary.  Dr. Lott’s article points out the difficulty of even driving across a typical city without violating this law.  Even if you are unaware of the school tucked back in the woods two streets to the east of you, you are eligible for a five-year, all expenses paid prison term and a $5,000 fine.  Even gun-friendly states have anti-gun politicians and prosecutors in their larger cities.

 

Congressman Ron Paul introduced legislation to repeal the GFSZA on three separate occasions.  His bills never made it out of committee.  Can you say national reciprocity?  The more things change, the more things stay the same.  Gun control is about control, not guns.

 

Rob- I used to open carry in California.  You had to know where every school was located.

Belle- How is this enforced?

 

Truckin’ through Wisconsin

Truck driver Guy Smith of Wisconsin pulled into a weigh station Kenosha County in June of 2016.  He then found himself charged with carrying a concealed weapon after his revolver was seen in the cab of his truck.  Of course, they confiscated his property.  Mr. Smith does not possess a concealed weapons permit.  

 

Smith’s defense attorney, John Monroe, prepared two theories to defend his client against these allegations.  The first defense is as simple as it gets.  In 2011 Wisconsin passed a law making it legal to have loaded handguns in vehicles.  A revolver is a handgun, isn’t it?

 

To paraphrase, Monroe said the charge never should have been filed because the the law allows handguns in cars to be unencased and loaded.  This seems pretty clear, doesn’t it?  But the prosecutor intended to take this case to trial.  The prosecutor actually stated that the law could not mean what it said because it would invalidate concealed carry law.  The judge in the case corrected him by stating that it would “in cars.”  Again, this seems like common sense stuff.  That is true unless you are a prosecutor with an axe to grind against citizens arming themselves.

 

The second defense theory Monroe devised centered around Castle Doctrine.  Wisconsin, and most other states, allow the use of firearms in their home, business or vehicle.  As Mr. Smith’s truck provides transportation, a livelihood and lodging all three elements of a castle exist.  

 

When prosecutor Thomas Binger learned of the defense Monroe planned to present at trial, he asked for a postponement.  Presumably this was to give the State more time to prepare.

 

On August 28, just before the date of trial, the State dismissed all charges against Mr. Smith.  Monroe pointedly stated they were not informed of this dismissal until the defense had been prepared and they traveled to Kenosha.  As Dean Weingarten of Gun Watch stated, this sounds like a case of punishment by process.  Was there ever an intention of going to trial with this?  Or, was Mr. Smith just being railroaded by a powerful government?

 

After the dismissal, Mr. Smith said, “I’m just a trucker trying to stay alive.  I want my gun back and I don’t want a record, and I’m not paying a fine.  I didn’t do anything wrong.”  Well done, Mr. Smith.  Perhaps we need a remake of Mr. Smith Goes to Washington?

http://www.livetrucking.com/case-trucker-found-handgun-dismissed/

http://bulletsfirst.net/2017/08/30/wisconsin-carry-truck-case-dismissed-prosecutor-avoids-precedent/

 

Paul – Just to make sure that all our listeners are aware that there are no federal laws that prohibit carrying in a commercial vehicle. It also reminds me of my own situation

John – Guy Smith still has his legal bills. The prosecutor was trying to drag it out to force Mr. Smith to plead to a lesser charge because of the uncertainty involved.

Gary – ACLDN

Rob- Guilty of contempt of prosecutor.

Belle- If they don’t pay, they should provide enough educational material to help keep you out of trouble.

 

Gun Quotes-  A free people [claim] their rights as derived from the laws of nature, and not as the gift of their chief magistrate. Thomas Jefferson

 

Hang on everybody, we’ll be back with our guest (Name).

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3- Interview 1

Amanda Suffecool

Eye on the target radio http://www.eyeonthetargetradio.com/

Realize FAC http://www.realizefac.com/

 

The NRA said this was the first fashion show to highlight concealed carry.  Maybe it was the first for them, but you’ve done this before.

Preppers ball

Friends of NRA

You wrote the book on it.

 

What was your idea in putting on a fashion show for concealed carriers?

I like it because it shows we’re normal.

Hi, this is us.  Look at us.  We look like you.

News coverage was great.

It is fashion news.

You’re talking about how to hide guns.

One model was carrying four concealed firearms.

We’re commonplace.

Amanda wrote the book on building your own fashion show.  A DVD is also available so you are not starting from our experience.

Contact Amanda with your lessons learned from your fashion show.

 

Who should consider putting on a fashion show?  NRA meetings, NRA clubs, Women’s shooting leagues for outreach and fundraising.

https://www.facebook.com/WCCfashionshow/

http://www.guns.com/2016/04/12/uscca-concealment-fashion-show/

Uscca

American shooter magazine

A group in NY

We use real people, and plastic guns.

My cousin produces fashion shows, so I learned from her.

The NRA hired me to consult with them.  They got things done.  We didn’t meet the models until a few hours before the show.

Pictures from the show including “Fabio”.

https://www.reuters.com/news/picture/nra-concealed-carry-fashion-show-idUSRTX3DPP2

 

4- Interview 2 Paul Martin

https://www.amazon.com/Pivot-Points-Creating-Preparedness-Resiliency/dp/1515310671

 

Paul, emphasize the little things you solve once you prep.  Sprains.  Cuts. power outage.  Knowing when to not enter the water.

 

Rob- I have flood insurance.

What is the name of your you-tube channel?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9TYrmdNpEE

http://www.prepperdepot.org/

 

5- DGUs (at beginning) These discussions are NOT legal advice. Some of us are trainers, but this is not formal training and YOU NEED formal training. The Defensive Gun Use segment is intended as information, NOT as training. As always the opinions of the hosts are only their own opinions and not those of any sponsors or other affiliations.

 

Hurricane Harvey Mischief

As we have seen this week, while thousands were fleeing Hurricane Harvey, the low lifes came out to “play”.  About an hour after the storm made landfall, police in Corpus Christi responded to a call and found a man with a gunshot wound in the head.

It appeared that the man tried to break into the home and the armed homeowner defended himself.  The man was coherent and was transported to the local hospital.

In a second incident near Houston a few hours later, a home invader was shot and killed by the homeowner.  Both incidents were still under investigation.

Rob-  Low light.  You need a flashlight and a cell phone.

Gary-

Tracy: My doors are locked for YOUR protection.

Belle- low light practice is more important than people give it credit for. How often is it dark? About half the time? Why wouldn’t you practice that skill?

John – I like the attitude of the sheriff of Ft. Bend Cty, TX https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2017/09/03/texas-sheriff-warns-reminds-looters-we-believe-in-the-second-amendment-n2376617

Belle Night sight can be a distraction too. Low light shooting is likely to be close, because of the diminished ability to see anyway. Practice your point shooting or as Marty teaches, your Default Stance and you’ll develop the necessary skill.

 

Evil Roy shares a story

Fans of SASS or Cowboy Action Shooting know Gene Pearcey by his SASS moniker of Evil Roy.  He recently posted this story.

Here’s a self-defense story from a friend. It demonstrates the value of awareness, presence of mind, and making other members of you family familiar and proficient with available firearms. Being a cool head doesn’t hurt either.

My friend stops at convenience store on the way back from the lake. His shorts are wet so he takes his small pistol out of his pocket and puts it the door pocket. He tells his wife the 1911 is in the center console and goes inside. A small car pulls up alongside and a guy gets out. The wind blows his shirt up exposing a weapon. The wife is not sure if it is a knife or gun but she is alerted. My friend comes back to the Suburban and opens the rear doors and reaches for the cooler. He turns around to see the guy standing very close looking very tense, wild eyed and agitated. Bad things are about to happen. Suddenly he gets very still and very slowly lowers his hands to his side and makes some idiot remark about looking for gas. My friend looks over his shoulder and sees his wife aiming a very shiny 1911 through the truck at the guys head with the safety off from the passenger’s seat. Guy very slowly mutters some nonsense and leaves. The wife did not say a word through the entire encounter. Lots to learn from this incident.

Rob- Teamwork is insanely effective.

Belle- Great example of why it’s important to be aware of pre-attack indicators.

 

Wrong ATM

Sierra McFatridge was outside getting her dog when she heard the crack of gunfire and saw a robber falling right in front of her.   She said, “I didn’t know where the shot came from and then he was right there in front of me.”

A 51 year-old man had just visited the local ATM, withdrawn cash and was walking home when the robber hit him in the head.  The robber had a rock.  His intended victim had a gun.

The thug got away but a neighbor saw a woman in the get-away car and gave the license plate number to police.

Police said the victim was transported to the hospital with non-life threatening injuries.  Once again the case was still under investigation.

Rob- The victim was walking with his son.

Gary- Grandma was robbed.

 

Man hold suspect at gunpoint until police arrive

In South Carolina, a deputy was serving a warrant for car theft when Christopher Cravets spotted the officer and ran from the scene.  He was wanted on an armed robbery charge. The deputy called for backup and multiple agencies responded.  The manhunt was on.

Charles Belcher had gone to visit his girlfriend in the area and she informed him of the ongoing manhunt.  He retrieved his gun from his truck and went back inside.

He then went outside to check the property.  He spotted Cravets hiding in the back of an Explorer in a carport on the property.  He ordered the man out of the SUV and to lay face down on the ground.  He then held him at gunpoint until the police arrived.

“The only thing I was worried about is if he had a gun and if he was going to try to shoot me,” Belcher added.

 

We post each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com  Please take a minute and share them with a friend.

 

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6- E-mail, blog notes, and show close

 

Listener e-mail discussion

 

Text message #1

 

Greetings all! Nice to have all the new voices on the show. All the best to Rachel in her new endeavor. I am getting a motorcycle and am wondering what others do who are disarmed at work. Thanks in advance. Also, even though I am disarmed at work , the vehicle I drive is 80,000 pounds. How many grains is that you math people!

 

Al the Iron Range trucker

 

560 million grains!

=====================================

 

Email from Dr Sean

 

Ok folks I have tried to stay out of the 1911 “discussion” but….allow me to go back a few episodes.  You had a guest who was trying to decide between a Springfield EMP and the range officer.  I own both and would suggest either or both for anyone.  The EMP is nice for CCW when you have light clothes or need deeper concealment.  The range officer is great to have a full size 1911 on your hip.  Buy both and you can choose each day.  They feel the same in your hand and function exactly the same.  The only difference is the recoil.

 

ok Paul I have to agree with you on wanting a 64 1/2 Mustang (I would love one too) but anytime we compare cars and guns we run into problems.  So if we are going to compare a 64 1/2 mustang and a new car the difference we see is a huge increase in government regulation and safety features as well as digitalization.  So I’m afraid you would have to compare the 1911 to a “smart gun” in that comparison.  I don’t think any of us want a smart gun!!  

I’ll agree with Belle “1911 finest handgun known to man”, but I also like to take my wife’s XD mod2 out for some target shooting too.  She carries hers all the time and loves it.

All in all, carry what you practice with, practice and get training often and above all else POGO!!

Thanks for all you do and see you at GRPC.

Dr. Sean

 

Sean D. Brodale DO

========================================

Barton carries in his truck!

 

Hey crew,

It has been 7 years since I have had interaction with the DOT but today was my lucky day. The Officer approached from the passenger side and asked if we could pull off into the truck stop parking lot a few blocks up. For Paul’s benefit we do 99%of our Excavation work in Barron county WI so we don’t see scales ever. Before he left I informed the officer of my Glock 22 as I openly carry. When we got to the parking lot and he started the inspection he and I had a wonderful chat about firearms as he cited me for a non approved air line splice and let the few other things go with a warning provided they are fixed within 15 days. Be polite with officers and do what they say always but especially when armed. This gentleman was polite as we chatted about guns walking around the truck and trailer looking at the needed repairs. Enjoy your night!

#norecipes

Barton in  Wisconsin

==============================================

 

Jake writes in about safeties on firearms

 

I understand where he is coming from, but I have to disagree with Paul on manual safeties on concealed carry firearms.  I have carried for years with a fullsize with no manual safety and a subcompact with manual safety (depending on the season, what I’m wearing, and the required level of concealment).  If you ever observe me when shooting, you will notice on every gun, even those without when I draw or otherwise prepare to fire, my thumb swipes downwards on the left side of my gun as if disengaging a safety, and ends in a proper shooting grip.  On guns without safeties, it doesn’t cost me anything in terms of time or mental effort, and of course it’s necessary on guns without safeties.

 

I’m beginning to change my mind on the usefulness of safeties and DA/SA guns purely for additional safety when reholstering.  Reholstering is the most dangerous gun handling task we commonly do, and a stray string from a sweatshirt, piece of brass, rock, fold of a t-shirt, or any number of other things could get stuck inside the holster or trigger guard on holstering and cause an accidental discharge.  With a hamer-down DA/SA gun, you can keep your thumb on the rear of the hammer so you feel it begin to move if the trigger is pressed by anything, and with a gun with a safety, you can physically stop the trigger from moving.  If I want to carry with the safety off, I can toggle the safety on, holster, then withdraw just far enough to disengage the safety before reholstering.  Lately, though, I just keep the safety on – I instinctively disengage it on drawing anyway.

 

Just my $0.02.

Jake (Formerly from Iowa)

 

Belle- 1911s are…The Finest Handgun Known to Man? Too much of a broken record?

Tracy- 2011s are..TOO BIG FOR MY HAND.

Rob- Jake, I have the same habit.

John – http://www.guns.com/2015/07/13/the-gadget-for-glocks-a-safer-way-to-re-holster-video/

========================================

 

Dr Sean writes in again

 

Just wanted to thank Tim Crosnoe for his elaboration of natural point of aim as it is sometimes talked about in pistol shooting.  I had begun to wonder how NPOA could be used in pistol shooting as the shoulders are mostly muscular joints.  This seemed contradictory to the NPOA we learn at Appleseed which takes the muscles out and relies on the sling and bones to get an NPOA.  It’s nice to know that I’m not the only one thinking about NPOA as it is different in pistol shooting vs rifle shooting.  Thanks to Tim

Dr. Sean

Sean D. Brodale DO

 

Rob- We use NPOA in target shooting a lot.

Belle- NPOA in pistol is similar to the default stance

 

Paul: Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?

 

Rob- I completed my series called “Government Fees Discourage Concealed Carry.”  In shall issue states, our concealed carry laws and fees disarmed 8 million of us.  I also asked if “Gun Laws are Really Common Sense..or More of the Same Stupid Stuff?” Do these regulations disarm criminals or disarm honest gun owners?  Do they do more harm than good?

 

That and more are up at Clash Daily, at Ammoland, and at my blog slow facts dot wordpress dot com.  John, tell us what’s new at your blog no lawyers only guns and money?

 

For those who like a little bit of history with their firearms, I did a post on a lesser known trench gun, the Remington 10, used by the American army in World War One. Only about 3,500 of these bottom ejecting pump shotguns were made. They also came with a 17” bayonet. Moving from the old to the new, Century Arms released a product safety warning regarding their Canik line of 9mm pistols. Owners are warned that repeated dropping of the pistol could damage internal parts. Century will release a severe duty upgrade by Sept 8th.

 

That and more is at only guns and money dot blogspot dot com.

 

We need people to donate bandwidth at GRPC

 

(How do you donate bandwidth?)

 

Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast.  I’d like to thank (Amanda Suffecool and Paul Martin for joining us today.  So for Amy, Tracy, Belle, Jae, Dana, Douglas, Gary, John, Rachel, Susan, Craig, and Rob,

(Paul, stop talking now)

 

Rob: Until the next time…

Gary: stay safe,

Tracy: be aware,

John: and we’ll see you down the road.

 

(after show close) How could we have made this episode better?

 

(DO NOT READ)Look at the shooters club by Bob Mayne and Ben Branam.  For $75.00 a year, $6.25 a month, you get 24/7 access to some fantastic training and audio podcasts that you can’t get anywhere else.  Subscribing from the link in our show notes helps Bob and Ben as well as helps us here at the Polite Society Podcast.

 

Episode 419 Karl Rehn, Gail Pepin and Tim Crosnoe

Full Episode Download:http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/Episode2041920Final.mp3

1- Open and Personal News Segment

2- News Segment 1

3- Interview Segment 1: Karl Rehn Pt 1 

4- Interview Segment 2: Karl Rehn Pt 2

5- Mantis X review

6- Tim Crosnoe interview

7- DGU Segment:

8- Email and Show Close:

1- Introduction

Paul: Welcome to the polite society podcast powered by the Firearms Policy Coalition recorded on Tuesday, August 22nd, 2017 I’m Paul Lathrop

Rob: I’m Rob Morse and on tonight’s show we will talk with Karl Rhen about Historic firearms training.

John: I’m John Richardson, and we’ll talk about the Arizona Supreme Court upholding state pre-emption

Paul: we’ll also talk with Gail Pepin about the Mantis X Training system, so climb aboard

Rob: strap in

John: and hang on!

Paul: episode 419 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.

Show intro music.

 

Personal news from each participant (when you are done with your segment please ask the next person what has been up with them)

 

Rob- Carried every day.  Recorded Amanda Suffecool for “Self-Defense Gun Stories.”  What Amanda is doing with concealed carry fashion shows is amazing.

 

John- Thanks to a reminder by Erin Palette of Operation Blazing Sword, I signed up for Massad Ayoob’s MAG-20 class to be held in a suburb of Charlotte (North Carolina). I’ve wanted to take the MAG-40 for a long while but either the time or the distance wasn’t convenient. This gets me halfway there and it’s only a little more than 2 hours away.

 

Paul-

 

Promo about upcoming training classes here.

Break

2- News 1

 

Paul – Government tension in Arizona

It is not unusual for state governments to pass preemption laws.  However, many city leaders believe they know best.  They pass measures knowing that their local regulations conflict with state statutes.  

 

The most recent example of this overreach is found in Tucson, Arizona.  A recent, unanimous ruling by the Arizona Supreme Court struck down a 2005 ordinance requiring local police to destroy seized firearms.  The problem is an earlier Arizona statute that prohibits local governments from enacting measures related to firearms or ammunition.  Additionally, Arizona passed another law requiring cities to sell seized or otherwise acquired firearms to licensed dealers.  

 

Tucson argued that its charter status provided significantly more independence.  The Arizona Supreme Court disagreed.  As police power is granted by the state, the city must abide by state mandates.  The court clarified that charter status only applies to only city elections and disposal of real property.

 

The issue was brought to a head by SB 1487.  This law provides that legislators may point out instances of cities ignoring preemption laws to the Attorney General.  If the Attorney General finds this to be the case, he or she may withhold up to half of the city’s state funding.  Tucson argued that this amounted to illegal coercion.  Justice John Pelander, however, stated the intent of SB 1487 is to, “require and incentivise political subdivisions to comply with state law.”  This is a positive step in the right direction.  It gives teeth to preemption laws that cannot be ignored by power hungry local officials.

 

Rob- Tucson destroyed hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of firearms.  That is enough money to buy all the Tucson cops body armor..but the city says they don’t have enough money for that.  They the municipal government does have enough of the taxpayer’s money to fund years of legal challenges claiming they are above the law.

 

John- It is interesting to compare this decision with the recent one that didn’t uphold pre-emption by the Washington State Supreme Ct. In this case the AZ justices read the law and applied it. In Washington State, the majority justices had to virtually invent exceptions to that state’s very strong firearms pre-emption law.

 

Rob- Politicians in a black dress.

 

John- Under Dillon’s Rule, counties and cities are creatures of the state. They only have the power clearly granted to them by the state. This is a long-standing legal principle.

 

Paul –

Rob- The law requires deliberate misconduct.  

 

John – Gun Quotes- A businessman cannot force you to buy his product; if he makes a mistake, he suffers the consequences.. A bureaucrat forces you to obey his decisions, whether you agree with him or not.  If he makes a mistake, you suffer the consequences; if he fails, he passes the loss on to you.  Ayn Rand

 

Hang on everybody, we’ll be back with Karl Rhen.

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3- Interview 1- Karl Rhen Pt 1

 

4- Interview 2 – Karl Rhen Pt 2

 

5- Mantis X

 

Rob- 6- DGUs  (at beginning) These discussions are NOT legal advice. Some of us are trainers, but this is not formal training and YOU NEED formal training. The Defensive Gun Use segment is intended as information, NOT as training. As always the opinions of the hosts are only their own opinions and not those of any sponsors or other affiliations.


Rob- Judge returns fire

It was just another Monday morning when Judge Joseph Bruzzese, Jr. parked his car in his reserved spot next to the Jefferson County courthouse in Steubenville, OH yesterday. Within a couple of minutes things would change.

As Judge Bruzzese walked toward the stairs leading up to the courthouse shortly before 8 AM, he was “ambushed” by Nathaniel Richmond.  According to Sheriff Abdalla, video footage showed a vehicle with 2 occupants at 7:12 AM which then left and returned at 7:30.

Richmond approached the judge and shot him at near-point blank range in the chest then took off running toward the vehicle.  Judge Bruzzese was armed and both he and a probation officer returned fire.  Video showed the judge taking 5 shots at Richmond.  Richmond was shot and killed by one of the two.

The sheriff said had the probation officer not been there, “this “gentleman” would have kept on shooting until he killed the judge.”

Although Richmond had never appeared in Judge Bruzzese court, he has had been involved in a number of cases in the last several years.  He had filed a lawsuit in the judge’s court in April, alleging wrongful death in the death of his mother in a house fire in 2015.  The hearing was scheduled for the end of August.

Richmond was the father of Ma’lik Richmond who served 10 months in juvenile detention after a conviction, along with another high school football player, for the rape of a 16 year-old girl in 2012.  Richmond was a star on the football team and the case got international attention amid allegations of a cover-up to protect the football team.  Ma’lik had no contact with the judge in his case.

Judge Bruzzese was alert and talking after the shooting and was airlifted to the hospital in nearby Pittsburgh and is expected to survive.  Judge Bruzzese has served on the court since 1997 and had been elected to the most recent 6 year term in 2014.  He had started carrying a gun years ago because there’s “nutcases out there who want retaliation.”

Paul- I can’t talk about Ohio, but many states treat judges as above the law.  They can get permits in states where the rest of us would have to go unarmed.  I looked at the 25 most dangerous occupations, and “Judge” didn’t make the list.

 

John – NC treats judges and DAs as above the law in terms where you can carry. Beyond that, I see this as a case showing how it is important to stay in the fight even if you wounded. It could save your life.

 

Rob- Some Ohio judges granted themselves authority to carry in their courtroom and everywhere else in public WITHOUT having to obtain an Ohio carry permit.  It must be nice to be king..or at least a judge.

 

Paul – 3 shots connected with at least 6 fired. More training please

 

John – Self-defense against crossdressers

In Lithonia, Georgia recently, a man dressed as a woman broke into a local home just after 2 AM.  The homeowner confronted the subject and gave him a verbal warning.  The burglar continued to approach him and he fired one shot.  He did the right thing in the opinion of neighbors because he has a wife, daughters and mother in the home.  The burglar died at the scene.  The homeowner is not being charged as the police have determined this was a self-defense shooting.

Paul – Do you think alcohol or drugs might have been involved here?

Paul – Might have been better if you POGO

A Kansas City MO man and woman had just returned home at 5 AM from a visit to WalMart after working the night shift.  They had put the groceries in the apartment and he was walking her to her car when a man dressed all in black came around the corner.  He was demanding them to give me things and threatening him with a gun.  The male victim emptied his pockets.

He then started moving them into the apartment.  At this point the male victim decided to grab his gun which was just inside his door and fight back.

“I walked out, he was still holding the gun and I thought he was going to shoot me that minute, and I just took a couple shots and he ran off,” the victim told police. Unsure if he had hit the man, he and his girlfriend retreated into his apartment and called 911.

Responding police found the man dead.

Rob- I have to call this man foolish.  He didn’t have a gun with him.  Once he faced a lethal threat, he did not make the decision to use lethal force, but waited until he had his gun pointed at the criminal to decide to shoot.  That is an important distinction.  You can choose to NOT SHOOT at any time, but I want you to make the choice to save your life when you see an immediate and unavoidable lethal threat.

John – Bob Mayne, Ben Branam, and Paul Carlson had a great discussion on visualization in a recent Handgun World Podcast.

Paul-

Rob- Training with realistic targets can help you shoot when you need to.

Cellular 911 Call

A Verizon Wireless store employee practiced POGO and it probably saved his life.  2 men attempted to rob the cellular store in the late morning recently.  While being held at gun point, the clerk pulled his firearm from his waist band and fired several shots at the thug brandishing his gun at him.

The wounded suspect was “awake and breathing” and the clerk had “both guns in his hands” as 911 audio revealed.

The clerk does have his government issued permission slip to carry his gun concealed.

The suspect had fired his gun but it was not determined who shot first.

The suspect was transported to a local hospital gunshot wounds.  He and his comrade had been in the store several times recently.  The other robber fled the scene in a light blue van.

John – I wonder if he will keep his job.

 

Paul – I don’t know if it’s a great idea to handle the gun, but you have to make it safe.

 

We post each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com  Please take a minute and share them with a friend.

 

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7- E-mail, blog notes, and show close

 

Voice mail

 

Email #1, this one from Phil

 

I enjoy your podcast and… really wish you’d give more information about each episode in the written introduction. I don’t know who the guests are, so please describe what they talk about, so I can decide if that episode is what I want to hear. (“We need/want more listener feedback” is too often the only thing you post.)

 

Thanks for hearing me!

 

Email #2

 

I just listened to your podcast of a week ago and I heard Paul mention Dirty Harry’s 16 shot revolver.  If I may…a correction.  The Dirty Harry movies are better than most when it comes to the realistic portrayal of guns.  You see, I have this annoying habit of counting shots in the movies, especially when it comes to revolvers.  If they go overboard I’ve know to express my displeasure, especially to my wife. That’s when she usually gives me a look and I shut up.  Anyway, Harry usually shoots 4 or 5 times before the end of that “scene”.  Never more than 6 that I can recall.  Exception… in the second movie (Magnum Force) during the police shooting competition, Harry shoots 6, then is clearly seen using his speed loader, then 6 more before he yells “out”.  Anyway, the point to this silly email is to point out that the Dirty Harry movies are the rare example of Hollywood getting it “pretty close” to right.
Regards,
Tony

 

Paul: Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?

 

Rob-  I looked at the costs to get your concealed carry permit in “shall issue” states.  We paid over 4 billion dollars and spent over 65 million hours in classes to get our permits.  As you should imagine, that much time and money talks, and the state mandates disarmed 11 million of us.  We would at least double the number of people legally carrying if constitutional carry were the law of the land.  That and more are up at Clash Daily, at Ammoland, and at my blog, slow facts dot wordpress dot com.

 

John, tell us what’s new at your blog no lawyers only guns and money

 

Our listeners may remember Cody Wilson. Among other things, he developed the Liberator pistol which can be made using a 3-D printer. We interviewed him at the 2016 GRPC. Cody now has a company selling 80% AR lowers and mini-CNC machines that allows you to complete that lower. This past week his Internet provider, Cloudfare, cancelled his GhostGunner.net account. While Cloudfare preaches “free speech”, they closed his website over content. This is the same thing that they did to the white supremacist site Daily Stormer. It leads to the question as to whether social media companies are deciding to purge or restrict libertarian or conservative oriented websites because of their “values”.

 

That and more is at only guns and money dot blogspot dot com.

 

Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast.  I’d like to thank Karl Rhen and Gail Pepin for joining us today.  So for Amy, Tracy, Belle, Jae, Dana, Douglas, Gary, John, Rachel, Susan, Craig, and Rob,

(Paul, stop talking now)

 

Rob: Until the next time…

Gary: stay safe,

Rachel: be aware,

John: and we’ll see you down the road.

 

(after show close) How could we have made this episode better?

 

(DO NOT READ)Look at the shooters club by Bob Mayne and Ben Branam.  For $75.00 a year, $6.25 a month, you get 24/7 access to some fantastic training and audio podcasts that you can’t get anywhere else.  Subscribing from the link in our show notes helps Bob and Ben as well as helps us here at the Polite Society Podcast.

 

Episode 418 – Massad Ayoob and Gail Pepin

Full Episode Download: http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/Polite20Society20Podcast20Episode2041820Final.mp3

1- Open and Personal News Segment

2- News Segment 

3- Interview Segment 1: Maddad Ayoob and Gail Pepin Part 1

4- Interview Segment 2: Massad Ayoob and Gail Pepin Part 2

5- Interview Segment 3 Massad Ayoob and Gail Pepin Part 3

6- DGU Segment:

6- Email and Show Close:

 

1- Introduction

Paul: Welcome to the polite society podcast powered by the Firearms Policy Coalition recorded on Monday, August 14th, 2017  I’m Paul Lathrop

Rob: I’m Rob Morse and on tonight’s show we will talk with Massad Ayoob and Gail Pepin interacting with the police.

John: I’m John Richardson, and we’ll talk about a truck driver murdered while working his dream job.

Tracy: I’m Tracy Thronburg, and we have a defensive gun use where a man left the hospital and came home to find an intruder in his home.

Gary: I’m Gary Daugherty and in one of our DGUs we talk about the best kind…no shots fired… so climb aboard.

Amy: strap in

Belle : and hang on!

Paul:  episode 418 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.

Show intro music.

 

Personal news from each participant (when you are done with your segment please ask the next person what has been up with them)

 

Rob- I posted another episode of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  The last podcast was with Ben Branam.  The next one is with Amanda Suffecool.

 

I’ve been studying the rates of concealed carry in shall-issue states.  I started with John Lott’s data and kept digging.  Now I have to write up the research.

 

Belle – been taking my first time off of the year for some family time. Getting Firearms Academy of Seattle ready for Gunsite 150 Pistol course this weekend and getting myself ready for GSSF in Port Townsend, WA. – all this coming weekend.

 

John – I’ve had a quiet week. I did go “junking” with Barb on Saturday and picked up some cheap pewter. I plan to use it as part of my lead alloy for casting bullets. Pewter is mostly tin and antimony so a little bit hardens up the cast bullets. Rob’s digging reminded me of a plea I need to make. If any one of our listeners is good at social network analysis, please get in touch with me at john@politicsandguns.com. It is a social science tool showing interconnections. Among the things I want to study are large law firms and gun control groups.

https://www.google.com/search?q=who+is+funding+anti-gun+law+firms%3F&rlz=1C1VFKB_enUS618US623&oq=who+is+funding+anti-gun+law+firms%3F&aqs=chrome..69i57.13920j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-

 

Tracy – I was a student in Karl Rehn’s beta class of Historical Handgun this past Saturday at his private training facility. I don’t want to disclose too much since we will be interviewing Karl about this class. Suffice to say, my ego was brought back down to earth. It was a humbling experience!

 

Gary-  

 

Amy- Spent the weekend in Charleston, SC with a friend I served with in the military that I had not seen in a few years so it was a fun time! Getting ready to leave this weekend to teach a Ladies Defensive Handgun Class at On Target Gun Club in Atlanta, GA.

 

Paul/Susan MAG 40

 

Promo about upcoming training classes here

 

JOHN – Patch Promo – I will make another plea for listeners to buy a Polite Society Patch. They are $10 for 1, $18 for 2. We take both PayPal and checks. Send PayPal to john@politicsandguns.com. If you’d rather send a check, just pop me an email at that same address for my mailing address.

 

Break

2- News 1

 

Tracy – Truck Driver Robbed

Keith Odom, 49, lost his life while living his childhood dream job.  Odom’s parents, in Jonesborough, Tennessee, understand that accidents and crashes come with the business. However, the Vietnam veteran never thought his son would die in a robbery. Sgt. Don Coppola, a Baton Rouge police spokesman, said investigators believe Odom was shot after he turned over his possessions to the robber. The unknown suspect in a black hoodie and carrying a backpack was seen pacing the parking lot. After the shooting, he ran across the parking lot toward the Citi Trends store. The police have detained some people for questioning, but the investigation continues.

 

Paul – National Reciprocity (or the lack of is losing us lives.)

 

Rob-

https://www.usa.gov/elected-officials

John – HR 38 has 208 cosponsors! 205 Republicans and 3 Democrats. It is 10 less than the number needed to pass the bill.

Gary –

 

Please mention (202) 224-3121 Congressional switchboard

Amy – Very important to call your congressmen and women! Every call from a constituent is recorded!

 

John –New York Deputies Knock on Vietnam Vet’s Door, Confiscate Guns

A 70-year-old Vietnam veteran said he was watching television in his Taberg, New York, home when deputies knocked on his door, then entered and confiscated his firearms.

The veteran, Don Hall, was told by the deputies that he had a record of mental issues. They took his handguns, then asked if he had any long guns. They took those also.

Hall hired an attorney, who advised Hall that he would have to prove that he was not the Don Hall with mental issues. Hall and his attorney blame the gun controls contained in the 2013 SAFE Act, which was passed in the wake of the heinous attack on Sandy Hook Elementary School. One of the controls in the Act was a new reporting requirement for “health providers.”

 

Amy – I know that this is a major concern in the veteran community. A lot of combat veterans especially being diagnosed with PTSD are scared of how this may affect their Second Amendment rights and sometimes won’t seek treatment because they don’t want it being reported!

John –

Rob-  I read a follow up report.  He asked to see his records in the local hospital.  They records technician was quite upset when he asked if his records showed any mental health treatments.  He was falsely reported.

 

Belle – Gun Quotes

Surround yourself with people who move towards the sound of gunfire.  Unknown

 

Hang on everybody, we’ll be back with our guests Massad Ayoob and Gail Pepin.

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3- Interview

Tracy – I’d like to welcome Karl Rehn to the Polite Society Podcast. Karl is the man that I call “boss.” He is my friend and mentor. He is a grand master shooter in USPSA and has trained with the best in the business. So, Karl, what was the driving force behind your creation of Historical Handgun?

 

Karl Rehn –

 

Rob- Was the modern technique and the contemporary hunched-isosceles really progress?  Progress, or adaption to changing hardware.

 

Amy – This sounds like such an interesting class! The analysis of shooting techniques, stances, and the approach of teaching is something the military studies as well. In the Marine Corps, the combat marksmanship training program changed during the war and policies we were teaching at the recruit depot when I was there directly changed because of these studies. The military is currently involved with civilian shooting sports as well which also affect current training!

 

Belle –   Hey Karl- Marty Hayes says “hi”  Thats funny you mention the distance shooting being hard to come by, we just had a stage in our local IDPA Match (not technically legal, of course) that was prone- 50 yrds And our Active Shooter course here is focused on distances up to 50yds. You have to really search to find facilities that can offer you that training or practice- cool that you’re providing that also! When are you holding the next one?

 

Rob- What does the firearms community have to do so more people take training?

Walmart class- traveling trainers need a two day course.

 

Half-day courses?

Evening courses?

Stepping stones of advancement.

Make training cheap and easy..and cost $50 to $80.

 

Amy –  I agree with you, Karl. I have found more success as a trainer offering shorter, more frequent classes with lower round counts. I think the beginner shooter gets fatigued faster than someone who is more advanced. Would you agree with that as well?

 

Paul – is there anything you have found that overcomes the “ My uncle Bubba taught me everything I need to know about shooting?

 

4- Interview 2

 

Tracy 5- DGUs  (at beginning) These discussions are NOT legal advice. Some of us are trainers, but this is not formal training and YOU NEED formal training. The Defensive Gun Use segment is intended as information, NOT as training. As always, the opinions of the hosts are only their own opinions and not those of any sponsors or other affiliations.

 

Amy – No Shots Fired

Trevor Debord had some small things disappear from his home recently and was having the locks changed on his home on Monday.  He had just left the hospital and had a bad feeling and decided to swing by his home.

When he got home, he heard some noise upstairs.  He grabbed his gun and climbed the stairs to confront the intruder.

He found a teenage boy hiding in one of the bedrooms.  The boy obeyed every command that Debord gave him.

Local police arrived shortly after Debord and took the boy into custody.  It appeared that the boy entered the home through a window.

 

“Seeing somebody just kind of standing there nervous you feel bad but then again it’s your home. You need to protect it with all you can,” Debord said.

 

Rob- Let’s separate luck from best practice.

One unarmed homeowner walked into his home.  He had to move across his home to become armed.  What if he’d met several armed intruders?  He would have started a fight he couldn’t win.  Don’t be that guy.

 

Gary – Ex-boyfriend lucky to be alive

It has been said that a protection order will not protect you.  Joshua Cuthbertson had an order against him and he knew it.  He also ignored it recently.

He recently went to his ex-girlfriends with a container of gasoline and a baseball bat.  When the dogs started barking, the man also living at the home came outside.  He smelled gasoline and found Cuthbertson hiding behind his vehicle.  Cuthbertson then attacked him with the bat, hitting him several times in the head.

The man then shot Cuthbertson in self-defense and then administered medical aid until the police and ambulance arrived.

Cuthbertson was treated for multiple gunshot wounds and charged with assault with a deadly weapon with intent to kill and violating a protection order.

 

John – While it may sound callous but let the EMTs deal with it.

Belle -You mentioned you may be sorry you shot someone. Don’t be sorry you survived!

Rob- Try to train with the people you live with.  It will make you 10 times harder to beat with a baseball bat.

Amy – Yes! Train for different scenarios.

Rob- Military has plans.

Belle- My kids and I play the ‘what-if” game all the time. It’s not to scare, just prepare – (and yes, I use the rhyme to make it simpler and sweeter for the little ones) We also rely heavily on our dogs- I cant imagine not having them as part of my security plan.

 

Tracy – Another Psychological Stop

On a recent Sunday afternoon, Bobby Watson tried robbing a woman in a Publix parking lot.  She fought back and Watson stabbed her and ran.

Christopher McMann witnessed the attack and approached Watson.  Watson then stabbed McMann.

Another Good Samaritan, Travis Jones, then chased and tackled Watson only to be stabbed in the abdomen.  Donald Rush saw what was happening and grabbed his gun from his car and ran at Watson.  He was able to disarm him and held him at gunpoint until deputies arrived.

The sight of the brandished firearm was enough to stop the attack.

Rob- Right here we see the statistics of an armed citizenry.  An attacker armed with knife stabbed a number of people..until he met a victim armed with a gun.

 

We post each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com  Please take a minute and share them with a friend.

 

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6- E-mail, blog notes, and show close

 

Listener e-mail discussion

 

John – From Facebook

 

Is there something to this? I’ve seen too many organizations reach their goals and claw for any excuse to justify continued existence.

I’ve had some nagging thought about the NRA and its leadership lately. It started when they waited till the last second to disinvite USCCA from the Member’s Meeting. Then that week they revealed Carry Guard. No doubt a worthwhile service the the USCCA has set the gold standard for legal insurance and training for many years now. The Carry Guard program began on a bad foot banning revolvers and 1911s from their classes.

 

They are setting up their own schools and events which will severely cut into the trade of smaller schools and otherwise well known trainers who are doing yeoman’s work in areas not usually well served by traditional shooting schools. I am 100% all for taking as much training from qualified instructors as is realistic for the individual to undertake. I am adamant about that.

Now look at the changing landscape. IF we get Reciprocity passed in the face of the opposition and the know it alls on our side NRA has a problem. That slays one of the boogiemen they’ve traded on for decades. They seem to fear having to go back to running matches, youth events and museums. They have gotten a definite taste for the power that comes from being able to elect and un-elect politicians. They need a new cash cow. As we know as more people get into the 2A lifestyle training even when not mandates always skyrockets no matter what Whoopie Goldberg says on the View.

 

My concern here is the damage to the the hard working instructors with small operations who take great pride in instilling high levels of competence and safety in their students. THEY won’t have a national program to steer them clients. This does not bode well. Some have said that a 2A revisement amendment that established nation constitutional carry and removed Class III restrictions and recognized SYG, parking lot provisions and established Castle Doctrine with teeth would be a nightmare for the NRA with no more dragons to slay.

===============================================

 

Paul – I am not going to say that USCCA is the gold standard because quite simply they aren’t. In protection of members in my opinion ACLDN is at the head of the pack.

Belle-Thank you, Paul! Marty did lay the foundation and didn’t ask for any of the glory. Check out last month’s ACLDN eJournal to see what Marty had to say to the NRA and how they responded.

 

Rob- There are not enough instructors if even a few percent of gun owners take training.  The NRA stumbled when they tried to roll out their online learning program.  They lost a lot of their instructors when they did that, or at least their instructors developed credentials with other training organizations.

Belle- But don’t we want that training to be high quality for armed citizens, not tacticool types.

 

Gary-

 

Rob- Text message #1

Morning crew,

I was wondering which do you all prefer, hammer fired or striker fired and why?

Thanks for the content in every show.

Jp

 

Gary

Belle- 1911. Finest Handgun Known To Man! – Says the girl who carries a Glock19 as we speak. Can’t you like both?

Paul -Striker

Tracy – 1911. I’m pretty good with a 1911. I learned on a 1911. I carry a 43, cuz my 1911s are heavy.

Rob- Yes, JP, your gun needs one or the other.  I don’t care which it has. The striker guns are simpler for new shooters to master.

Amy – I agree with Belle! I like both for different reasons, but prefer striker fired. I just shoot my Glock the most! I did learn with a Beretta M9 first though. And I do love my 1911s! I like all guns! Like Tracy and Rob were talking about, train to be proficient with EACH gun you own!

John – All I’m going to say is that I prefer a hammer on my revolvers so I have the option of SA or DA.

======================================

 

Belle – Text message #2 (clayton)

 

I agree with Tracy. I find it weird that cops perform chest compressions on people with bullet holes. Wouldn’t that increase blood loss?

 

Paul

=======================================

 

Amy – Text message #3 from George Zimmerman

 

I have been listening to your podcast and noticed that you’ve been asking for listener feedback. You are all doing a great job and I truly appreciate the manner you all “spread the word” the right way! Thank you all!

 

===============================

Tracy – Email from Clayton

 

AR versus AK is a no brainer to me in today’s market. AR’s are flooding the market and basically half the price of a glock, I pay 29 cents a round, everyone and their grandmother makes accessories, and magazines are common. Besides, “what’s his face”  blocked imports on 7.62 and 5.45 by 39 so those prices suck now.

*Bleep* yeah, Tracy! Just use an American rifle!
-still Clayton

 

Tracy – Good to hear from you again, Clayton! Keep the feedback coming, Thanks for being a dedicated listener of our podcast!

 

Paul – I am looking for the

 

Paul: Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?

 

Rob- I admire a lot of people in the self-defense movement.  Have you noticed what socialists and big government gun-grabbers say about these advocates?  In some cases, these advocates are my personal friends..like the people on this podcast.  My article is titled “Why the Political Left Hates Women and Blacks who Own Guns”   By the time this episode airs, I should also have my article done about licensing fees and the price of self-defense.  You can find those stories at Clash Daily, at Ammoland, and on my blog at slow facts dot wordpress dot com.

 

John, what’s new at your blog no lawyers only guns and money

 

I received a solicitation for money from State Senator Phil Berger of NC. He is the President Pro Tem of the NC Senate. He is one of the leaders responsible for our constitutional carry bill not coming to the floor for a vote. I suggested in a blog post that the proper response to a GOP politician asking for money is NO. The only way they should get a yes and money is if they start actually passing gun rights legislation. This includes at the national level where we still haven’t gotten action on national reciprocity or the Hearing Protection Act. The Republicans have counted on gun owners to win them elections. We need to tell them to put up or shut up.

 

That and more is at only guns and money dot blogspot dot com.

Rob- did you answer Berger’s solicitation?  You’ve got him by his wallet.

 

Amy have you written anything you want to talk about?

https://www.gunware.net/blog/

https://www.ccwstyle.com/

I’ll start posting the specific new articles I write each podcast!

 

Anyone else want to bring something up?

(Post a link, Amy)

 

www.Patreon.com/politesocietypodcast

 

Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast.  I’d like to thank Massad Ayoob and Gail Pepin for joining us today.  So for Amy, Tracy, Belle, Jae, Dana, Douglas, Gary, John, Rachel, Susan, Craig, and Rob,

(Paul, stop talking now)

 

Rob: Until the next time…

Gary: stay safe,

Tracy: be aware,

John: and we’ll see you down the road.

 

(after show close) How could we have made this episode better?

 

(DO NOT READ)Look at the shooters club by Bob Mayne and Ben Branam.  For $75.00 a year, $6.25 a month, you get 24/7 access to some fantastic training and audio podcasts that you can’t get anywhere else.  Subscribing from the link in our show notes helps Bob and Ben as well as helps us here at the Polite Society Podcast.

 

Episode 412 – Grace Thames

Full Episode Download: http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/412.mp3

1- Open and Personal News Segment

2- News Segment 1

3- Interview Segment 1: Guest Grace Thames

4- DGU Segment:

5- Email and Show Close:

1- Introduction

Paul: Welcome to the Polite Society Podcast powered by the Firearms Policy Coalition recorded on Friday June 23rd   2017, I’m Paul Lathrop

Rob: I’m Rob Morse and on tonight’s show we will talk with Grace Thames about hand to hand self-defense.

Rachel: I’m Rachel Malone, and we’ll hear the story of a food-throwing delivery driver.

Bill: I’m Bill from the Firearms Chat Podcast and Paul and the gang asked me to join them for the show today…so climb aboard

Rachel: strap in

Rob : and hang on!

Paul:  episode 412 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.

Show intro music.

 

Personal news from each participant (when you are done with your segment please ask the next person what has been up with them)

 

Rob- I carried in the sun and rain, and we’ve had a lot of both.  The exception was when I went to a large industrial firm in Texas.  They were a gun free zone. I produced two new episodes of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  I started reading David Yamane’s article- The sociology of U.S. gun culture.

 

Rachel, don’t tell us what changed. Tell us if anything stayed the same in your world?

 

Rachel – …..I live in a different world now

 

Bill- I did a women’s roundtable show last night

 

Paul/Susan-

 

Promo about upcoming training classes here.

Break

 

2- News 1

 

Mortgage to Keep and Bear Arms

On June 16 2017, U.S. District Judge Amy Berman Jackson refused to grant $9,775.65 in attorney’s fees and costs incurred by Gregory Ledet, a resident of Ohio. In 1997, Ledet committed the crime in Louisiana of less than $100 misdemeanor theft for which he received a six-month suspended sentence in lieu of 18 months probation. He should not have been denied his second amendment rights. Therefore, he fought the federal government over a stagnant background check appeal on a gun purchase. One can lose their gun rights according to federal law if the person is found guilty of non-domestic violence-related state misdemeanor punishable by over two years in prison. Ledet’s attorney, Stephen D. Stamboulieh said, “Why should an erroneously denied individual be on the hook for thousands of dollars to fix the government’s mistake? Good question.  But, until Congress steps in, that’s the way it is.”

 

Kansans Denied the second amendment.

The Kansas Taxpayers are coerced to fund hospitals, but with this legislation they are denied the ability to defend themselves when employed, visiting or being treated at these facilities. Employees are not allowed to exercise their second amendment rights in their own vehicles parked on the property. After The Kansas Legislature bill passed on June 1st, the governor had 10 days to sign or veto the bill. Since he has done nothing, the bill will become law without his signature.  Kobach attempted working with The National Rifle Association and the Kansas State Rifle Association to come to a compromise with state hospitals and KU Med. KU Med walked away from the negotiating table, therefore Tax funded Medical Facilities will not follow the legislation to allow concealed carry nor will they pay for additional security. The state funded properties will turn into gun-free zones without adequate security by July 1.

Rob-

Paul – so much for constitutional carry.

National Reciprocity or bust

National reciprocity is high on the list for the Republican agenda, but the Democrats and the dominant media have been in cahoots to undermine it since Donald Trump took office.  It appears many House Republicans are jumping on the bandwagon.  The Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act (H.R. 38) now boasts the support of 200 members!  Perhaps this will provide the impetus to get the bill moving out of committee; it has been languishing there since January 12.

 

The short bill H.R. 38 simply says, “A person licensed to carry in their home state may carry in any other state that allows concealed carry.” Although every state allows some form of concealed carry, New Jersey, Maryland, New York, California and Hawaii, make it extremely difficult to go through the process of obtaining a permit. Politicians from those states are not about to stand by quietly as reciprocity bill passes.

 

In the wake of the Alexandria, Virginia shooting of Rep. Scalise and others, Georgia Congressman Barry Loudermilk proposed another form of reciprocity.  He proposed measures whereby members of Congress licensed in their home states may carry while they are in the nation’s capital. Of course, Sen. Charles Schumer (D-NY) is one of the anti-rights activists vehemently opposing the idea.  Certainly there will be no restrictions on his personal security detail.  But his second amendment opposition is aggressively reminding the Senator who is in charge on Capitol Hill.  Brian Babin of Texas proposed legislation similar to Loudermilk’s.

 

It is typical that public shootings result in calls for the retraction of rights.  This is one situation where such an event may actually spur action to take some of these rights back.  The number of supporters for National Reciprocity as well as Rep. Loudermilk’s proposal may actually move the bill forward.  Do you find it interesting that members of Congress seem content to follow the status quo when you and I are being overrun by violence?  Whether the subject is health insurance or concealed carry, the ruling class believes in two sets of rules:  theirs and ours.

 

Rob- These are complimentary bills.  We need both.

 

4 STATES ADDED TO CALIFORNIA’S BANNED TRAVEL LIST

California is restricting publicly funded travel to eight (8) states due to laws that California leaders view as discriminatory against gay and transgender people.

 

The eight states are Alabama, Kansas, Kentucky, Mississippi, North Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee and Texas.

 

California Attorney Xavier Becerra, along with representatives from ACLU North California & Equality California, announced the new states at a Thursday press conference.

 

California’s law gained attention after North Carolina enacted its so-called “bathroom bill”, which requires that people using bathrooms in public buildings choose the restroom that corresponds to the gender at birth. California voted last year to restrict state-funded travel to states with laws that allow businesses to deny services to members of the LGBT community.

 

Texas Gov. Greg Abbott recently signed a law with a provision that critics are interpreting as permitting adoption agencies to deny services to gay families.

 

Alabama and South Dakota were added because of similar adoption-related laws. The California DOJ says Kentucky’s Senate Bill 17 allows student-run organizations to discriminate against classmates.

 

The California law includes exemptions for law enforcement officers, tax auditors and training events that are required for grants.

 

Gun Quotes- The greater the number of laws and enactments, the more thieves and robbers there will be. Lao Tzu

 

Hang on everybody, we’ll be back with our guest, Grace Thames.

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3- Interview 1

 

4- Interview 2

 

5- DGUs  (at beginning) These discussions are NOT legal advice. Some of us are trainers, but this is not formal training and YOU NEED formal training. The Defensive Gun Use segment is intended as information, NOT as training. As always the opinions of the hosts are only their own opinions and not those of any sponsors or other affiliations.

 

Sponsored by firearms policy coalition

Jeff Street

 

WOULD-BE ROBBER LEFT DUCT TAPED ON DRIVEWAY AFTER ARMED NEIGHBORS FOIL BURGLARY

A man broke into an Albuquerque home on Sunday, triggering the security system that notified the homeowner on his phone.

Micah Benson watched the man roam through his home, grab a beer, try on a motorcycle jacket and turn on the TV.

That’s when Benson called his neighbor for help. Sandra Vestel has a background in the military and surveillance and jumped into action.

She told reporters QUOTE “I went into our garage, my husband and I, and we got two pistols,” END QUOTE.

They met Benson in the street and used their cars to block the street to prevent a getaway in a vehicle. Vestel handed Benson a gun and that’s when posse of six armed neighbors flooded into the home and confronted the man.

Vestel stated that she and the homeowner entered the home with two of the loaded weapons. The homeowner announced himself to the perpetrator saying, QUOTE “I have a loaded weapon, get down on your hands and knees,’” END QUOTE.

According to police, the intruder shouted “DON’T SHOOT!”

Surrender? Not enough for this bunch neighborhood watch. They duct taped the suspect and placed him on the driveway AFTER beginning to strip search him to make sure he didn’t have any weapons or needles. They even took away his beer that he had helped himself to.

32-year-old Mark Thompson was transferred to a local hospital and was later charged with residential burglary. Thompson remains in police custody.

 

Paul – We are not the police and should not be clearing houses especially a house that is only occupied by a bad guy

 

Rob- This is wrong, but cool.

Rachel-

 

Delivery is Dangerous

Getting food delivered to your home can be a great time saver for yourself but for a driver, it can be a dangerous job.  A Jacksonville Florida Chinese food delivery driver is thankful that he practiced POGO.  3 teen thugs thought they would make a fast buck this week by robbing the driver.

The three called in an order and had it delivered to a vacant home on the west side of town.  The three had removed the For Sale sign from in front of the house.  When the driver arrived at the address, he was held at gunpoint and told to get inside.  The driver threw the food at one of the thugs then pulled his Glock.  Four or five shots had one of the thugs down and two on the run.

The intended victim only had $200 with him. The incident left the neighborhood concerned due to the number of children living there.

The drivers statements indicated that he did not get his support hand up as he defended himself.  This would tend to indicate that he had trained one handed at some point in the past.

Another take away from this story is the tactic used by the driver to give himself time to draw his weapon.  He threw the food at one of his aggressors which gave him the opportunity to draw his Glock.  If you are in a similar situation, you can toss your wallet or valuables at the thug or on the ground.  It may be just the distraction you need to draw and be the first to pull the trigger.

 

Paul- Good on the driver for using the food as a distraction

Rob- Don’t depend on mercy from the merciless.  Tactical patience.  You have the right to defend yourself.  WHEN you do so..is up to you.  

Bill- I can add something…

Jeff- Train to discard or retain carried items

 

Democrat or Republican

Since 1909, the Democrats and the Republicans in House of Representatives along with select Senators have been playing a charity baseball game.  The game has been played for years at the various professional fields in the DC area. The game was so popular not only with the players but also the public that the game was broadcast on radio for many years.  The players take the game seriously and each year spend many hours prior to the day’s work in the House and Senate at the practice field in Virginia taking batting practice and fielding ground balls.

On June 14th, the Republican players were on a field in Alexandria VA.  James Hodgkinson, 66, of Belleville IL was also at the field that morning but he wasn’t much interested in baseball.  The rhetoric and vitriol of the last few years had turned Hodgkinson into a anti-Republican liberal who had actively campaigned for Bernie Sanders in the Democrat primaries.  His Facebook page was full of hate against the Republicans.  Hodgkinson had purchased a 7.62 x 39 caliber SKS rifle and a 9mm handgun.  That morning he had a pocket full of clips and was intent on eliminating some Republican members of Congress.

Among the players taking BP and fielding practice that morning included Senators Jeff Flake and Rand Paul, and Representatives Steve Scalise, Jeff Duncan, Mo Brooks, Joe Barton, MIke Bishop, Ron Desantis and Brad Wenstrup to name a few and various aides and a lobbyist or two.

As Hodgkinson took aim with his SKS along the 3rd base line, Republican Whip Steve Scalise was at his position near second base fielding balls.  As the first shots range out shortly after 7 AM, Rep Scalise was shot in the hip.  At the same time, all the others on the field dove for cover.  The only real cover was the 1st Base dugout.  Rep Barton injured his ankle diving into the dugout.  His young son was there and the stuffed him up under the bench to hide him.  Barton’s Aide, Zach Barth was shot through the calf and after hugging the ground finally decided to make a run for the dugout as well.  Sustaining injuries as severe as Scalise’s was lobbyist Matt Mika.

As Majority Whip, Rep Scalise is the 3rd ranking Republican in the house.  As such, he is assigned a security detail by the Capitol Hill Police.  This morning the detail consisted of Officers David Bailey and Crystal Griner.  Both Bailey and Griner were hit by Hodgkinson.  Both returned fire.  Estimates of the number of shots were anywhere from 50 to 100.  In the end, Officer Bailey was able to eliminate the threat.  Hodgkinson suffered fatal gunshot wounds.

Senator Flake and Rep Wenstrup both ran immediately after the shooting stopped to Scalise who had dragged himself to into the outfield away from the direction of the shots.  They found the entry wound and looked for an exit wound.  Scalise was thirsty and they got him water.  Scalise was in good care, Wenstrup is a surgeon and a colonel in the Army Reserve and had served 1 tour in Iraq.  He later said that it was like being back in Iraq except he wasn’t armed.

Scalise, Mika and the shooter were life flighted out.  Hodgkinson died at the hospital.  Mika and Scalise have undergone multiple surgeries and are now out of ICU and Scalise is in good condition and MIka in fair.  Bailey, Griner, Barton and Barth were all treated and released from area hospitals.

The next night the Congressional Baseball Game went on as planned.  Throwing out the first pitch was one of the heroes, Officer David Bailey.  The Democrats defeated the Republicans 11-6.  

The shooting has spurred the introduction of legislation to allow reciprocity for members of Congress in who are licensed to carry at home or to get similar licensing through the Capital Hill Police.  Of course, why does Congress need special legislation when the existing bill for National Reciprocity would do the same thing.

 

Jeff- these guys and the rest of us would be better served if they had a USPSA competition instead of a baseball game.  I doubt any of the senators had an IFAK.

Rob- Col David Grossman calls a ball field a willful and deliberate waste of a good shooting range.  The politicians were disarmed because they worked in a gun free zone. So are we.  So are the political staff.

 

Tennessee Armed Citizens capture Escaped Georgia Inmates

Also last Tuesday, Donnie Rowe and Ricky Dubose were with 31 other inmates being transported on board a corrections bus in Putnam County GA.  At some point they were able to get out of the locked rear section and overpowered the two corrections officers.  After stopping the bus, they proceeded to murder the two officers with their own weapons.

The two then carjacked a Honda Civic from a man who pulled up behind the bus.  They proceeded north and robbed a home in Madison GA taking food, clothes and valuables and leaving their prison uniforms behind.  They then stole a Ford Pickup and continued their run to the north.  

In Shelbyville TN, the two held an elderly couple hostage and later fled in their car.  The police had been alerted to their presence and a chase ensued.  The inmates crashed the stolen car and fled on foot.  In the process of fleeing, there were shots exchanged with the police.

Nearby, a homeowner, Patrick Hale, had gotten calls that the two were in the area and to be alert.  He loaded his weapons to prepare.  A few minutes later he spotted the two crossing a fence some 300 yards from his home.  He then called 911 at this point.  At that point he started to leave with his young daughter.  As they were pulling down the driveway, Rowe and Dubose took off their shirts and waved them at the homeowner.  The two fugitives then surrendered and laid face down on the driveway.  Hale was armed but stated that he never pulled his weapon.  3 minutes later, 45 police officers arrived to take the two into custody.

There had been several conflicting reports about this last day.  It was stated that the two got in a gunfight with their pursuers but the two corrections officers guns were retrieved from the crashed vehicle.  It was also reported that Hale had drawn on the two but Hale stated he never drew his weapon.  The old saying of the Fog of War I guess applies here.

 

Paul I LOVE the fact that the guy was getting out of there. Priorities are right when he got his kids out

 

Rob- “I was loading all my guns and praying.”

 

We post each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com  Please take a minute and share them with a friend.

 

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6- E-mail, blog notes, and show close

 

Listener e-mail discussion

 

Voice mail

From Carl- Do we have barbeque guns?

Bill- Taurus Judge

Rob- I know we wear jeans and work gear during the weekday.  I’d upgrade my clothes when I’m visiting a friend.  I’d also wear my 1911 in basic black.

Rachel- is it ever not grilling season? G19 is my all-purpose gun

Bill-

Rob-

 

Text message

Morning PS Crew,

With so many new gun owners I understand that some people may not be able to afford to take a training class. I know nothing can compare to getting into a class but for those that can’t afford it annually how do you all feel about training videos? Other than Rob Pincus who else would you recommend?

 

Thanks

JP

Bill-

 

Rob- A video is a supplement, not a substitute for coaching.  There is a difference between instruction, training, and coaching.  The difference is really important.  I’d be careful watching a video.  You may emphasize the the wrong aspects of the exercise.  A trainer can show you what you should do..and separate the important from the inconsequential.

Videos can’t look at you and show you where you’re making mistakes.

 

Rachel- To piggyback on what Rob said: if you are truly motivated to learn to be an excellent shooter, you can do so without spending much money.  Obviously, big-name courses (and a lot of little-known-name courses) are amazing experiences. But if you can’t afford them, save your pennies, take a basic class that’s well-recommended by local trainers *and civilians* (not big-name, but quality)……and then actually apply *everything* you were taught. During the class, take notes, ask questions, ask more questions, understand everything, work your brain a thousand times harder than you ever thought you could. Then come home and drill yourself. Be your own teacher. You’ll be a better shooter than most people who take many big-name classes. Also, train with others who are good at things you’re not. Don’t have money for ammo? Dry-fire. Ask for a 2-hour private lesson with someone – and ask them questions and ask them for homework.

Rob- Even a one-day course is more than you can learn in a day.  You’re not serious about training if you don’t take notes.  The notes will re-teach you the parts you saw, but didn’t learn.

 

Paul: Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?

 

Rob- I want our listeners to read my article Building Thoughtful Gun Owners.  Should we intervene if we see someone else being assaulted?  How do we know they are not armed?  Why did they ignore the ability to protect themselves.  If you want to be gun free, should I go against your wishes?  That and more are up at Clash Daily, at Ammoland and on my blog slow facts dot wordpress dot com.

 

Paul-  Bill, what is going on over at your podcast Firearms Chat?

 

Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast.  I’d like to thank Grace Thames for joining us today.  So for Charlie Foxtrot,  Jae, Dana, Douglas, Gary, John, Rachel, Susan, Craig, and Rob,

(Paul, stop talking now)

 

Rob: Until the next time…

Bill: stay safe,

Rachel: be aware,

Susan: and we’ll see you down the road.

 

(after show close) How could we have made this episode better?

 

(DO NOT READ)Look at the shooters club by Bob Mayne and Ben Branam.  For $75.00 a year, $6.25 a month, you get 24/7 access to some fantastic training and audio podcasts that you can’t get anywhere else.  Subscribing from the link in our show notes helps Bob and Ben as well as helps us here at the Polite Society Podcast.

 

 

 

 

Episode 411 – Shayna Lopez Rivas, Yehuda Remer, and Doug Ritter

Full Episode Download: http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/411.mp3

1- Open and Personal News Segment

2- News Segment 1

3- Interview Segment 1: Shana Lopez Rivas Pt 1

4- Interview Segment: Shayna Lopez Rivas Pt 2

5- Interview Segment : Yehuda Remer

5- Interview Segment 3: Doug Ritter

5- DGU Segment:

6- Email and Show Close:

 

1- Introduction

Paul: Welcome to the polite society podcast powered by the Firearms Policy Coalition recorded on Monday June 12th, I’m Paul Lathrop

Rob: I’m Rob Morse and on tonight’s show we will talk with Shayna Lopez Rivas about how mental health regulations affect rape victims and gun owners.

John: I’m John Richardson, and we’ll talk with Doug Ritter from Knife Rights, the second front of the second amendment.

Gary: I’m Gary Daugherty and we interview Yehuda Remer about his new book for children called “Safety On”.

.. so climb aboard

Rob: strap in

John : and hang on!

Paul:  episode 411 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.

Show intro music.

 

Personal news from each participant (when you are done with your segment please ask the next person what has been up with them)

 

Rob- Modified holster with larger leather.  It is hot down here and I wanted to keep the grip off my skin.  Started using a bedside safe to keep my gun secure at night.  Dry fire practice.  Carried every day except when I paid a call on a large corporation in Texas..and their building was posted.  Boo!   Speaking of Texas, I registered for the Gun Rights Policy Conference.

 

John – Attended Andrew Branca’s Law of Self Defense Level 1 and 2 classes this past weekend. If you get into a DGU, there are two battles you have to win – the physical battle and the legal battle.

 

Gary

Paul/Susan Did a fast turn (explain) that is why the show took SO long to release.

 

Promo about upcoming training classes here.

 

(June 24, 25th 2017).  Beyond Concealed Carry Enhanced.  9am -5pm both days. Richmond, IL

(July 8, 2017) Defensive Rifle Skills for the Armed Citizen https://squareup.com/store/concealedcarryassociates

(August 10-13, 2017). MAG-40. Sioux Falls, SD

(August 26 & 27, 2017). Beyond Concealed Carry Enhanced. Sioux Falls, SD

(Saturday, February 3, 2018) Law of Self Defense LEVEL 1 Class: South Dakota

(Sunday, February 4, 2018) Law of Self Defense LEVEL 2 Class: South Dakota

 

 

Break

2- News 1

 

John – Florida Sheriff Gets It

Brevard County Sheriff Wayne Ivey took to social media and television recently to urge citizens to arm themselves against terror attacks. Referring to recent terror attacks around the globe Ivey said “This is war, and you better be prepared to wage war to protect you, your family and those around if you’re attacked,”

 

Later in the video the continued “Folks, now more than ever is the time for our citizens to be prepared to serve as the first line of defense. Doing nothing, or just hoping that nothing is going to happen to you, is not going to save your life.”

 

Sheriff Ivey joins a growing number of elected sheriffs across the nation who are encouraging their citizenry to arm themselves and get training. A welcome development.

 

Gary –

John – Wayne Ivey puts on tactical classes for his citizens.

Paul – These folks are elected and therefore they could be speaking to those that are gun owners and vote in their counties.

Gary – More good news from Florida

Florida Governor Rick Scott signed 2 bills into law that help to restore our freedoms recently.

 

SB-128 Burden of Proof restores the burden of proof to the prosecution in self defense cases.

 

SB-1052 Justifiable Use of Force removes the requirement that you be directly under attack to employ deadly force inside your home. Under the previous law it could have been construed that you had to retreat from your home even if others remained in danger.

 

Both of these laws are positive steps and we applaud the that the citizens of Florida are in a better position today as both bills to effect immediately upon being signed.

 

 

 

Paul – Moving in the right direction in Oklahoma as well.

Oklahoma Governor Mary Fallin signed SB397 into law recently The new law, which takes effect on November 1st will allow people to carry concealed weapons on public transportation systems in the Sooner state. Under previous law it was a felony to carry on board public transit and could have cost you a 10 year prison term and a $10,000 fine.

 

Gov. Fallin also signed SB35 into law that will give people with military IDs either active duty, guard or reserve to carry without a permit in Oklahoma. The wording in the bill makes clear that this is for anyone who is serving, not just Oklahoma residents.

Rob- I support this, but the law seems capricious.

 

Rob- Gun Quotes- The United States Constitution does not exist to grant you rights; Those are inherent within you.  Rather, it exists to frame a limited government so that those natural rights can be exercised freely. Unknown

 

Hang on everybody, we’ll be back with our guests Shayna Lopez Rivas, Yehuda Remer, and Doug Ritter.

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3- Interview 1– Shana Lopez-Rivas pt 1

https://drgo.us/?p=5542

 

4- Interview 2 Yehuda Remer

 

https://smile.amazon.com/Safety-Introduction-World-Firearms-Children-ebook/dp/B01N24BYPF/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1495844306&sr=8-1&keywords=safety+on+book

www.yehudaremer.com

 

4A- Interview 3– Doug Ritter

https://kniferights.org/

 

John- 5- DGUs  (at beginning) These discussions are NOT legal advice. Some of us are trainers, but this is not formal training and YOU NEED formal training. The Defensive Gun Use segment is intended as information, NOT as training. As always the opinions of the hosts are only their own opinions and not those of any sponsors or other affiliations.

 

Gary- Wrong Apartment

A would-be burglar was killed last week during a home invasion near the Norfolk Naval Station in Virginia.  4 young thugs tried to break into an apartment just after midnight but he was shot during the attempt according to police.  He expired in the front yard of the complex.  A second person was also shot and later turned up at the local medical center.

 

The wounded thug and two of his partners were charged with armed burglary, conspiracy and using a gun to commit a felony.  All four of the invaders were from the Richmond VA area, a drive of an hour and a half to 2 hours.

 

A resident of the complex told reporters several guys walked up the stairs and kicked in the door of the apartment.  Instead of scoring some loot, they were greeted with flying lead.

Police received several calls for shots at the complex where they found a man suffering from an apparent gunshot wound.  At least 6 shots were fired.

 

The man who lived in the building hoped that the man would not be charged.  At this time, no determination has been published as to the shooters fate.

 

The resident of the apartment was prepared to defend himself and his possible loved ones.  The thugs kicking in the door gave him an opportunity to arm himself.

Paul –

Rob- Hard to react quickly in the middle of the night.  Thank goodness the door was locked.

 

Paul- Online Sale Gone Wrong

A Texas family is happy to be OK after a suspect attempted to rob them recently at their home.  The homeowner was forced to defend his family and shoot the suspect.

 

The teenage daughter was buying a cell phone from a seller on the website Offer Up.  The seller was supposed to meet them at a public place but there were delays and the family agreed to meet him at their home.

 

When Joshua Daniels arrived, the daughter asked to see the phone before handing over her money.  Daniels then pulled a gun, pointed at the girl’s head and dragged her by the hair.  He continued to demand the money.  When the girl ran inside to get the money, the gun then went to pointed at the mother.  Ted Webster stated “All I thought, our whole relationship, my future without her flashed before my eyes and I cannot bear that thought.”

Webster then tackled Daniels.  When the two got up, Daniels was still demanding money.  

Webster said he would go get it, but instead he got his gun.  When he returned to the front door, Daniels raised his gun but Webster was faster and pulled the trigger before Daniels could.

“All I can remember is, I saw that hand starting to come up and I had no choice.  I had to pull the trigger,” said Webster.

 

Police said that Daniels was shot in the stomach and left with another suspect in the getaway car.  He was found 15 miles away at a gas station.  He died after being taken to the hospital.  The driver was being questioned by police.

 

As usual, POGO, Pants On Gun On.  Webster should not have had to retrieve his firearm.  The local police also recommend to use the special parking spots they have for anyone who wants to make these types of transactions.  They are under 24 hour surveillance. If you can use such an area, use it.  Never invite strangers to your home, it is inviting trouble.

 

John – First, Webster was lucky not to have been shot when he tackled Daniels.

Paul- I am a little concerned about “surveillance

Gary –

John – Also get a non-lethal alternative as well.

 

 

Rob- Mom Stops Home Invasion

An Indianapolis mother is receiving support from the local police after shooting the intruder.  The 19 year-old was armed and coming through the front door of her apartment when she shot him.  The deceased was found dead inside the threshold of the home.

 

A neighbor saw one man flee and another man drove away in a possible get-away car.  Police are following leads and have not confirmed if the two were considered accomplices.  This was the second DGU in two days in the Eastside neighborhood which is the deadliest in the Indy Metropolitan area.

 

Neighbors stated “You have to defend yourself.  We have laws for that.” They hoped that criminals would start to think twice before breaking into other people’s home.

 

If your neighborhood has gone bad like this one, you have two choices.  Move or prepare yourself for trouble.  This mother probably could not do one so she did the other.  

 

John- The Family that Robs Together

A home intruder in Alabama was found wounded in the woods after getting into a gun battle with a homeowner a short time earlier.  The gunfight erupted about 3 AM.

 

The homeowner woke to the sounds of someone trying to get into his house and then saw the suspect “standing in the doorway between the bedroom and kitchen.”  He issued a verbal warning that he was armed and the suspect replied that he was armed as well.  Shots began to ring out.

Nearly a dozen shots were fired between the perpetrator and the homeowner.  The intruder fled the home and ran into a wooded area with his girlfriend.  He was discovered in the woods with gunshot wounds once the morning sun lit up the woods.

 

According to the sheriff, it appears the girlfriend and the suspects 18 year-old son were waiting in a car through the invasion.  They were also taken into custody.

 

The homeowner was not injured which amazed the authorities.

~_~_

 

We post each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com  Please take a minute and share them with a friend.

 

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6- E-mail, blog notes, and show close

 

Gary- Listener e-mail discussion

 

Text message #1

Just heard the podcast thanks for the advice I will look at the safe at Walmart and that is the only handgun I have so if it’s not on the duty belt it’s in my blade tech holster on me.

And the comment about my skivvies and the duty belt, I almost spit out my coffee lol! Side note I made sure the belt would fit me when all I’m wearing is underwear.

 

Paul – Email #1

Your latest episode seems to have shown up on iTunes about 9 days after it was recorded, so I am just now listening to it.  In fact, I just finished listening to what happened with Bob Owens and felt I needed to stop right there and send you some email.

 

Here’s the reality in today’s God forsaken society.  Men who show any weakness or any pain with be, at the very least, shunned and ostracized in the modern world, so men who are less than perfect, who want to survive in this world get very, very good at wearing a mask.  That’s why you didn’t realize that there was something wrong, he was very good at playing the part of someone who is fine.  The abuse that happens over decades helps fine tune that act until it is worthy of an Academy Award.

 

And I know you meant well when you told people to get help, but it’s really terrible advice.  There is no help available for a conservative, Christian, white, cis-gendered, hetereonormative man.  Modern mental health professionals are deeply indoctrinated on progressive and feminist theory, making them more likely to do a lot of harm instead of helping.  Such a man can expect nothing but ridicule and abuse as well as being presented with a bill for thousands of dollars.  Suggesting that people call the “National Suicide Prevention Hotline” (which isn’t exactly national, it forwards to a local number) sometimes leads to getting the advice to go ahead and kill yourself.  There have been multiple instances of this happening and I’m of the opinion some of it is coming from “mental health” professionals who are only there because they are required to do Community Service for some crime.  The hatred of damaged men is very strong in our society.

 

Several years ago, I actually tried to do something.  I tried to go down a path where I would have the training and resources to help some of the people who are being overlooked or outcast (such as Autism/Asperger’s Syndrome, for one example).  I started taking seminary classes.  That’s when I learned that the majority of churches have gone down the progressive rabbit hole and are biased (some more than others) against straight white males.  We are the cause of all evil in the world.  So, I failed.  I wish I knew what I could do to help, but I’m drawing a blank.

 

Yes, this is a big problem in today’s world and I urge you to at least make an effort to not flinch and draw away when you encounter a man in pain.

— Matt

 

Email  #2

 

John –  Paul,
I’m listening to episode 410 and liked the Walmart jeans comment. I work in a semi-professional environment and wear Wallyworld jeans every day. At 10-15/pair you can’t beat them and you don’t cry when they get ripped up. I’ve never once had anyone complain by jeans weren’t fashionable.

I don’t know if it was Jon or Rob that mentioned their belly but it called a tactical muffintop. It is designed to slow bullets down before they get to important organs. Some people use body armor. I order a Big Mac. Keep it up.

 

David from Ohio.

 

Rob- Email #3

No recipes please, get those out of your system on Facebook Susan!

Firstly I wanna contribute to the fifth pocket jeans discussion. The New Yorker who wrote in was probably referring to a mouse gun/pocket gun. I carry the M&P Bodyguard as my backup/non permissive environment primary and I suspect the tiny 6 round single stack .380 mags fit ok.

Secondly I’d like to bring a positive open carry experience report to y’all. (Despite Paul’s pleading I stop carrying openly.)

I attended a graduation party that was not family so I was exposed to some individuals with very different politics than I. Living up to my self proclaimed description of “ambassador from the gun community” I held polite discussion for about an hour explaining why people carry guns and why it’s to be protected just like any of the civil rights they fight for. One of whom was a Caucasian BLM supporter. Everyone left the conversation nodding in agreement with me.
I explained to the host’s mother who approached me inquiring if I was expecting trouble. I explained to her that carrying a gun is much like a seat belt. If I only put it on when I expected danger, the odds are much higher than acceptable of it not being on in an emergency.
I also had the opportunity to field a question along the lines of “why do people like you live in fear?”
I politely explained that if we were as afraid as you think we are, we would still be in our basements clutching a shotgun instead of out socializing in the world. I continued on to say the opposite is true, we take a step to make ourselves safer in the gravest extreme and we go about our lives more comfortable knowing we have the means to save a life in that circumstance.

Sorry for ignoring your advice Paul but I believe I am out here making a difference in a positive way.


A cool recommendation for Paul to shoot competition:
Shield. Bug class. IDPA.
The M&P Shield is the king of the category, in my opinion. You down load your magazines to six rounds
and your competitors are pocket guns and J frame revolvers. You get a great chance to run your EDC rigs, practice reloads more often, use cover and concealment, seldom end up with partially loaded mags you’re not “allowed” to drop on the ground, and you don’t have to compete against people with $5000 rigs/race guns. I have a good time and highly recommend it.
-Clayton Again (I’m watching you, Carl.)

Paul – I would like to say that you can have the same conversations without giving up your tactical advantage.

 

Paul: Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?

 

Rob- I wrote an article where I described the absurdity of gun-regulations by changing a few words.  That article is called If we talked about cars the way we talk about guns.

For example-

We’re not against cars.  We’re only a car-safety organization and we want a few commonsense car-safety regulations.

We simply want you to get proper training before you’re allowed to drive..and we don’t want any driving schools in your state.

 

I also put up two more episodes of my podcast, Self-Defense Gun Stories.  My written articles are up at Clash Daily, at Ammoland and at my blog slow facts dot wordpress dot com.  

 

Paul – I want to touch on the bigotry post

 

John, tell us what’s new at your blog only guns and money

 

The NC House of Representatives passed HB 746 which is the Omnibus Gun Bill. The most important thing in the bill is permitless concealed carry or constitutional carry. Unfortunately, thanks to Bloomberg’s money and lobbyists, 8 Republicans defected from the majority which means that as things stand now, the bill cannot be be overridden if Democratic Gov. Roy Cooper vetoes it as expected. The concept of a pro-gun Democrat has also died in North Carolina as each and every one of the House Democrats voted against the bill.

 

That and more is at only guns and money dot blogspot dot com.

 

 

Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast.  I’d like to thank Shayna Lopez Rivas, Yehuda Remer, and Doug Ritter. for joining us today.  So for Charlie Foxtrot,  Jae, Dana, Douglas, Gary, John, Rachel, Susan, Craig, and Rob,

(Paul, stop talking now)

 

Rob: Until the next time…

Gary: stay safe,

Paul: be aware,

John: and we’ll see you down the road.

 

(after show close) How could we have made this episode better?

 

(DO NOT READ)Look at the shooters club by Bob Mayne and Ben Branam.  For $75.00 a year, $6.25 a month, you get 24/7 access to some fantastic training and audio podcasts that you can’t get anywhere else.  Subscribing from the link in our show notes helps Bob and Ben as well as helps us here at the Polite Society Podcast.

 

 

 

 

Episode 410 – Paloma Capanna and Kevin Creighton

Full Episode Download: http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/410.mp3

1- Open and Personal News Segment

2- News Segment

3- Interview Segment 1: Paloma Capanna

(the file for this segment is not available for individual listening, but is in the full show)

4 Women’s Meet and Mingle

5- Interview Segment 2: Kevin Creighton

6- DGU Segment:

7- Email and Show Close:

 

1- Introduction

Paul: Welcome to the polite society podcast powered by the Firearms Policy Coalition recorded on Tuesday, May 23rd, 2017 I’m Paul Lathrop

Rob: I’m Rob Morse and on tonight’s show we will talk with Paloma Capanna about protecting your rights of gun ownership and your privacy in New York.

John: I’m John Richardson, and we’ll talk about Big City gun bigots in, believe it or not, Texas.

Rachel: I’m Rachel Malone, and we’ll have a report on the Women of the Industry Meet & Mingle.

Gary: I’m Gary Daugherty and in our DGU’s we talk about a couple of bad decisions… so climb aboard

Rachel: strap in

John: and hang on!

Paul: episode 410 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.

Show intro music.

 

Personal news from each participant (when you are done with your segment please ask the next person what has been up with them)

 

Rob- MAG 20 class with Rachel Malone as the chief instructor.  My wife joined me, and we got to meet some very nice people.  I published two new episodes of Self-Defense Gun Stories with instructors David Cole and Jeff Street. I ordered a new holster, and I’ll be on Lock and Load Radio with Bill Frady again.

 

John – I booked my plane ticket for GRPC. I found I had enough frequent flyer miles to pay for it! With the money I saved, I enrolled in Andrew Branca’s The Law of Self Defense Level 1 & 2 classes which will be held in Raleigh, NC on June 10 & 11. Other than that, it has been cleaning out my mom’s house and work. Oh, I almost forgot. Last week I got to go to one of the most unusual combo gun stores around. It was way better than Bubba’s Beer, Bait, and Guns. The name of the store was McCaysville Drug and Gun. Their motto is Pistols or Prozac – We Got You Covered.

http://mccaysvilledrugcenter.com/

 

Rachel- MAG20 with Tracy Becker and David Maglio also instructed.  

 

 

Gary

 

Paul/Susan

 

Promo about upcoming training classes here.

 

(June 9-11 2017). MAG-30. Florence, TX

(June 24, 25th 2017).  Beyond Concealed Carry Enhanced.  9am -5pm both days. Richmond, IL

(July 8, 2017) Defensive Rifle Skills for the Armed Citizen https://squareup.com/store/concealedcarryassociates

(August 10-13, 2017). MAG-40. Sioux Falls, SD

(August 26 & 27, 2017). Beyond Concealed Carry Enhanced. Sioux Falls, SD

(Saturday, February 3, 2018) Law of Self Defense LEVEL 1 Class: South Dakota

(Saturday, February 4, 2018) Law of Self Defense LEVEL 2 Class: South Dakota

 

John – Promo for PSP patches – send orders john@politicsandguns.com. $10 for 1, $18 for 2 PPD.

 

 

Break

2- News 1

Big City Gun Bigots in Texas

 

Large American cities harbor liberal politicians who would restrict our rights.  Seeing chiefs of police citing the non-existent threat of concealed carry is not news.  For these law enforcement officials, touting the party line is how you advance in city politics.  Elected sheriffs typically have a more reasoned approach.  The outstanding sheriffs who come to mind are Joe Arpaio, David Clarke and Wayne Ivey.  These sheriffs realize that it is critical for law enforcement to work with good citizens to beat back the threats to our daily lives.

 

Then there is Sheriff Lupe Valdez of Dallas County, Texas.  Yes, Texas.  She is putting the weight of her office forward to sway Washington from passing national reciprocity.  Sheriff Valdez actually said, “This bill would make it easier for dangerous people, like stalkers and domestic abusers, to carry hidden guns in all 50 states.”  Of course, it does not matter that stalking, assault and murder are already illegal.  Does Valdez believe that such people would actually be deterred because they do not have reciprocity for their carry permits?  The odds are that they would not have a carry permit in the first place.  But, gun control advocates rarely allow facts to change their propaganda.

 

Valdez is actually a member of Americans for Responsible Solutions.  This is the gun control group founded by Gabby Giffords and her husband, Mark Kelly.  But, when you reach the lofty position of Sheriff of Dallas County, your perspective changes.  You do not have to walk a crime scene and realize that the person lying dead on the ground may have survived if armed.  Maybe you do not even care.

 

Rob- Follow the money.  The sheriff is groveling for campaign dollars.

John- I agree with Rob. She is unusual.

Gary-

 

Wear Orange!

The gun grabbers have come up with a silly idea to promote their agenda.  They have called on their followers to wear orange on June 2.  The photos are to be posted to social media with the hashtag “#WearOrange.”  

 

Second Amendment champion AWR Hawkins would like to get in on the game, too.  He suggests that everyone go to the range that day, wearing orange.  So, be sure to post pictures of yourself shooting while wearing orange.  Tag it with #WearOrange and let’s beat them at their own game!

 

 

Gun Quotes

Bureaucracies are progressive. meaning they have a burning fear that someone, somewhere, is doing something without permission. Jerry Pournelle

 

Hang on everybody, we’ll be back with our guest Paloma Campanna and ???

 

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3- Interview 1 Paloma Capanna-  Do you give up your rights when you own a gun?

Defending gun owners from breach of medical information and release of information kept on federal forms we’re required to submit when we buy a gun.

 

Decision from the District Ct can be found here. The case is now on appeal to the 2nd Circuit Ct of Appeals.

 

?- Doesn’t this conflict with another Fed law – HIPAA

 

Politicians get a free pass.

 

See you in Dallas!

http://law-policy.com/

 

4- Interview 2

Woman’s industry meet and mingle in Atlanta-

 

Kevin from misfires and light strikes

Indiegogo Interactive Pistol Training System

 

Ultimate firearms trainer

Kevin, can high fidelity training pull more gun owners into advanced training?

Can you tell the speed of trigger travel?

The slide cycles in about .2 seconds.

The range is over 15 yards.

 

5- DGUs  (at beginning) These discussions are NOT legal advice. Some of us are trainers, but this is not formal training and YOU NEED formal training. The Defensive Gun Use segment is intended as information, NOT as training. As always the opinions of the hosts are only their own opinions and not those of any sponsors or other affiliations.

 

Never Shoot a Fleeing Thief

A Franklinton Louisiana man is facing charges from a DGU gone wrong.  An unnamed man was visiting Wilson Rowell recently and as he was packing up to head home, slipped one of Rowell’s pistols into his luggage.  Rowell confronted his visitor and the man pulled out the pistol and pointed it at Rowell, Rowell’s wife and mother.  After the brief standoff, the would be thief tossed his ill-gotten gains to the ground made a break for it.  At this point, Rowell fired and struck the fleeing thief two times.

The victim was taken to the hospital and will be arrested upon release and booked with theft of a firearm and three counts of aggravated assault with a firearm.

Rowell was booked on aggravated battery and had two outstanding warrants for contempt of court and failure to appear.

Louisiana, as in many states, a person’s right to use deadly force ends when the threat to your life ends by the person posing the threat flees.  When the visitor attempted to run away, he ended the threat of bodily harm and thus ended Rowell’s need to use a gun defensively.

Paul – We have said it many times – when the bad guy is running away it is time to stop shooting

 

Rob- Let’s learn from this.  You can’t make those decisions in the moment.  You have to make them NOW.  You need a conditioned response

John – We aren’t law enforcement. We don’t have an obligation to detain the bad guy or to stop them from fleeing.

 

Self-defense isn’t always involves against another human

In recent weeks we have seen a rash of dogs mauling either other dogs or children.  In a recent LA report, the FBI was investigating an incident involving an off-duty agent who shot and killed a pit bull who attacked the man’s German Shepherd.

The agent was out walking his dog when the unleashed pit bull attacked his dog.  He attempted to pull his dog away but the attack continued so he pulled out his gun and shot the attacking dog once, killing it.  This followed an incident where LAPD had to shoot 3 pit bulls which attacked a man and his small dog.

In either incident, no charges were going to be charged.

Paul – It’s not the breed it’s the owner. Also you may need to use your gun to defend against 4 legged predators, are you prepared for that?

John – I agree. In the last couple of years we had a local woman killed by a pair of dogs that we normally think of friendly big dogs – Great Danes.

Rob- I’ve lived in a rural community.  If your dogs attack my stock, then your dogs are going to die.  Been there, the dogs escaped because I wasn’t allowed to carry in California and they got away before I got my gun.

 

We post each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com  Please take a minute and share them with a friend.

 

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6- E-mail, blog notes, and show close

 

Beg for emails  onair@politicsandguns.com  voice and email at 605-215-1438

 

 

 

Listener e-mail discussion

 

Voice mail #1

 

Message from our Facebook page from Ed

Hi everyone! Thanks for your outstanding work, I love the podcast.
A recent discussion came up about carrying spare magazines and it’s really a hot subject here in (what Massad Ayoob once called) “darkest New York”.
We are restricted to carrying no more than 7 rounds in a magazine here, so a spare mag is an assumed necessity.
I was wondering if any of your other listeners used the small “5th pocket” on the right side of their jeans like I do. Great retention and it’s already there.
The only downside is that I have to reach across for a reload. The plus is that I’m already aware of concealment on that side and it blends in with whatever I’m already wearing to cover my holster.
I’d like to hear your thoughts on this as well.
Thanks again everyone! Be mighty!

 

Rachel-I could barely fit 3 bullets in my jeans 5th pocket, much less a mag. More power to you. Sure it’s not ideal, but….what do you give up to gain? I think this could be a fair gain.

 

Rob- new mag to fit a mag in your pocket.

John

 

Email #1 this one is from Carl

 

Hi,

We should not assume that because we do not have little ones at home, nor grandchildren that are close enough to drop in unannounced that we can be sloppy about securing our firearms.  We had a neighbor and her 4 year old visit a while back when I wasn’t home.  My wife related to me that the little guy started exploring the house.  His mom was going to stop him but my wife told her it was OK.  And you know what?  It was OK because our firearms are locked up when not in use.

Carl

P.S.  I have been able to get a sense of Paul’s trucking routes and it seems he travels through my neck of the woods from time to time.  I will be on the lookout for his company’s trucks, especially since I hear he hauls two of my favorite commodities – ice cream and bourbon!!!  If I am lucky I will be near when loads are rejected!

 

Paul

Rob- Good job.

 

 

Email #2  This one from our anonymous Michigander

Hi Everybody –

I have continued to faithfully listen and enjoy the episodes.

Couple of things…

A few episodes ago there was a discussion around “carrying” and working for an employer who doesn’t have the same viewpoint and prohibits firearms on the property as a term or condition of employment. It was interesting to listen to others wrestle with this issue.  I think your commenters were in the medical profession (I think it was a nurse?).  It was a great discussion and it came down to weighing the risk of losing your job (or career) versus your work environment safety risks.

Now add another dimension, the employer provides a good job, a good work environment, and makes it possible for you to pay for top shelf training.

My point is, it was reassuring to hear others in the concealed carry community contemplate and wrestle with the same decisions and choices…not easy decisions and serious stuff when others are depending on you to walk in the door every night as well as provide financial viability for the family.

These types of discussions on the podcast really provide a service to our community –  thanks.

Paul –

On a lighter note — have you shot your first competitive match yet?  

I went to my first match this spring.

There were pluses and minuses for me.

On the down side – they took one look at my everyday carry set up and said “nope!”

I carry concealed IWB 4:00 O’clock with an FBI cant for every day carry.

So, in match competition I am drawing from a 3:00 O’clock OWB holster…not the best scenario.

On the up side-  I had a great time. Once I told them I was a new competitor/shooter the safety officers and other shooters really helped me out.

I have since gone back to other matches. I look forward to competing at the regional and various state matches.

And yes…I have been taking dead-last at the matches…pretty humbling, but I am improving.

Regards,

Your Faithful Anonymous Michigan Listener

 

Rob- We’ve had experienced shooters shoot from the 5 o’clock position.  They won’t allow a shoulder rig because the gun is pointed at other competitors.

Gary –

 

Paul: Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?

 

Rob- Thanks, Paul. One article is titled New Bigotry from Old Civil Rights Icons- Congressman John Lewis and the failed fantasy of gun-control.  Black liberal politicians are trying to disarm the people who need guns the most.  Fortunately, we have black gun owners who are now speaking up for their community.

 

Gary, this one came from your mom.  It’s called The Crazy Things Pacifists Tell Me

How many of us have heard people tell you strange things about themselves when they find out you’re a gun owner.  I decided to write them down..along with the answers we’ve all kept to ourselves.  

I’ve had people say,   “My husband has a gun, so I don’t need one.”  You’re the designated victim?  

“I couldn’t hurt anyone.”  Really, you don’t care if your family is hurt?  Does your husband or wife know that?

 

I’d like to thank the organization “Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership” for reposting a number of my articles.  They are usually hosted at Clash Daily, at Ammoland, and at my blog, slow facts dot wordpress dot com.  John, tell us what’s new at your blog no lawyers only guns and money

Rob-

 

John- I received an email over the weekend from the Brady Campaign opposing national carry reciprocity. They are now calling it the “Zimmerman Bill”. Our listeners know that all of us on the Polite Society Podcast have met and interviewed George Zimmerman in person. George is a quiet young man who was forced to defend his life and has had his life turned upside down as a result. The Brady Campaign even called George a criminal which is defamation. They are trying to paint an ugly picture of unhinged white guys being able to kill young black men with impunity. This is a lie and they need to be called out on it.

 

That and more is at only guns and money dot blogspot dot com.

Before we go I want to ask if you like the

We would like to thank Charlie Foxtrot for writing up show notes for us. Even though you don’t hear him on the air he is certainly part of what you do hear. Look at his blog at not one more gun law dot blogspot dot com

 

Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast.  I’d like to thank ( PalomaGuests) for joining us today.  So for Charlie Foxtrot,  Jae, Dana, Douglas, Gary, John, Rachel, Susan, Craig, and Rob,

(Paul, stop talking now)

 

Rob: Until the next time…

Gary: stay safe,

Rachel: be aware,

John: and we’ll see you down the road.

 

(after show close) How could we have made this episode better?

 

(DO NOT READ) Look at the shooters club by Bob Mayne and Ben Branam.  For $75.00 a year, $6.25 a month, you get 24/7 access to some fantastic training and audio podcasts that you can’t get anywhere else.  Subscribing from the link in our show notes helps Bob and Ben as well as helps us here at the Polite Society Podcast.

 

 

 

 

Episode 409 – Sean Maloney and Laura Carno

Full Episode Download: http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/409.mp3

1- Open and Personal News Segment

2- Training and Discussion segment

3- News Segment 1

4- Interview Segment 1: Sean Maloney

5- Interview Segment 2: Laura Carno

6- DGU Segment:

7- Email and Show Close:

1- Introduction

Paul: Welcome to the polite society podcast powered by the Firearms Policy Coalition recorded on Sunday, May 14, 2017.  I’m Paul Lathrop.

Rob: I’m Rob Morse and on tonight’s show we will talk with Laura Carno about training school staff in Colorado to be first responders.

John: I’m John Richardson, and we’ll talk with Sean Maloney from second call defense.

Rachel: I’m Rachel Malone, and in one of our DGU’s we’ll hear how a Houston man successfully defended himself against 3 attackers

Rob: So climb aboard,

Rachel: strap in,

John : and hang on!

Paul:  episode 409 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.

Show intro music.

 

Personal news from each participant (when you are done with your segment please ask the next person what has been up with them)

 

Rob- Carried every day.  Did some dry practice with a SIRT pistol.  New ammo arrived for a training class.  I’ve also been thinking about how we train and how we teach.  We’ll talk about that in our e-mail segment.  I’ve also been thinking about Gary’s mom, but I haven’t written that article yet.  I also put out a new episode of Self-Defense Gun Stories.

 

John – I want to apologize to our listeners for missing our last show. I had just a horrible internet connection. Listening to the others was like being in some hallucinogenic Techo event. Now to current events. I’m a bit sore as we have been cleaning out what had been my Mom’s house as – ta da – I have a buyer for it. My Mom passed away 9 years ago so it’s time! I am still finding treasures including a signed promotion letter to my Mom from the FBI’s J. Edgar Hoover. As to gun news, I was pocket carrying my Ruger LCP II the whole time. It’s very convenient.

 

Rachel

Bought a gun….from John

Saw some political friends in a non-political setting….it was good

Working on a knife bill…..since everything else I cared about is dead

Mostly doing music work

 

Paul/Susan Range day on Saturday S&W Sigma

Bob and Ben

 

Promo about upcoming training classes here.

 

Break

(June 9-11 2017). MAG-30. Florence, TX

(June 24, 25th 2017).  Beyond Concealed Carry Enhanced.  9am -5pm both days. Richmond, IL

(July 8, 2017) Defensive Rifle Skills for the Armed Citizen https://squareup.com/store/concealedcarryassociates

(August 10-13, 2017). MAG-40. Sioux Falls, SD

(August 26 & 27, 2017). Beyond Concealed Carry Enhanced. Sioux Falls, SD

(Saturday, February 3, 2018) Law of Self Defense LEVEL 1 Class: South Dakota

(Saturday, February 4, 2018) Law of Self Defense LEVEL 2 Class: South Dakota

 

John – Promo for PSP patches – send orders john@politicsandguns.com. $10 for 1, $18 for 2 PPD.

 

Rob-

Bob Owens Suicide- Suicide is typically a result of depression.  Most of us never consider if we should kill ourselves.  We don’t ask if we should mark or cut ourselves.  We don’t ask because the question never occurs to us.  If you have asked yourself these questions, then please go get help.  What you’re doing in asking that question isn’t normal.  It isn’t healthy.  You are suffering from an illness.  You’re depressed.  It is a disease, not a character flaw.  You don’t need sympathy or to think happy thoughts or take a homeopathic remedy.  You need a doctor.  You need help now.

 

One of the largest contributors to periods of depression is lack of sleep.  So take a driven individual working on an important project.  They work too hard.  Drink lots of coffee.  Sleep too little, and then start a downward spiral of sleep deprivation and depression.

 

National Suicide Prevention Lifeline 1-800-273-8255

 

Bob Owens Family & College Fund

https://www.gofundme.com/the-bob-owens-memorial-family-fund

 

Break

 

2- News 1

San Francisco insanity

In typical California fashion, the City of San Francisco uses every measure at its disposal to limit the freedoms of law abiding citizens.  In a recent Breitbart article, AWR Hawkins exposed the folly of the elitist politicians who perpetually occupy City Hall.

 

In 2013 the city enacted a high capacity unquote magazine ban.  At the time, Larry Barsetti of the police union was quoted as saying, “All you’re doing is impacting honest law-abiding citizens of San Francisco; the bad guys aren’t going to obey this law; they’re not supposed to be carrying in the first place.”  

 

Recently published crime statistics appear to support Mr. Barsetti’s prediction.  Numerous improvements were noted in crime rates within the city.  Crimes against property fell by a staggering 11 percent from 2015 to 2016.  Incidents of reported thefts, arson, vehicle theft and burglaries also decreased on a year-by-year basis.

 

Crimes in which firearms were involved, however, exploded during the same time period.  The murder rate increased by 15 percent and gunshot victims increased by 27 percent!  Surely the well-meaning public servants of The City by the Bay have not yet concocted the perfect mixture of rights restrictions to serve their stated purpose.

 

Although we cannot, at this time, attribute any of this increase directly to magazine restrictions, there is a comparison that can be made.  A city on the other side of the country, Baltimore, Maryland, has similar gun controls in place.  They also enacted a high capacity magazine ban in 2013.  Since then, Charm City has endured higher murder rates than before the ban.  Criminal use of such magazines has increased since the ban took effect.  In fact, the carnage has risen to such a level that Baltimore’s mayor has called for the Feds to intervene.

 

Doing the same thing over and over while expecting different results is often coined as a measure of insanity.  On this basis, politicians promoting gun control measures should be considered for luxurious vacations at their local funny farm.

 

John –

 

Kitchen Table FFLs for Everyone

Unless you are employed by an American news organization, you probably know that a Federal Firearms License (FFL) is required in order to legally deal in guns.  We should probably give them a break since the Gun Control Act has only been in effect since 1968.

 

Many motivated collectors applied for, and received, FFLs in order to pursue their legal hobbies in an above-board manner.  These individuals have often been referred to as “Kitchen Table FFLs.”  

 

If you are relatively new to the gun community you may not have heard of this phenomenon.    That is because a man by the name of Josh Sugarmann of the Violence Policy Center.  He thought that these collectors posed such a threat to public safety that they must lose their licences.  So, Mr. Sugarmann set out on a mission of petitioning the Clinton Administration to remedy the situation.  Of course, the Administration complied.  Since then only those selling firearms for profit are eligible for a FFL.  

 

Now it is time for the funny part.  Mr. Sugarmann applied for and received a Federal Firearms Licence for the Violence Policy Center as a non-profit.  His application stated that he was a “firearms expert in design and manufacture.”  His given purpose for the FFL was for the “examination and publication of written material” about firearms.  The application also specifically mentions, “no firearms or ammunition will be sold.”

 

So which is it then?  Is it or is it not possible to have an FFL for purposes other than business profits?  It appears that the ATF is not even sure.  The folks at LonelyMachines filed a Freedom of Information Request regarding this matter.  When it was determined that the VPC does hold a non-profit FFL, they inquired of the ATF as to the steps one must go through in order to obtain a similar licence.  At first the ATF stated that it was not possible.  When it was pointed out that Mr. Sugarmann had such a license, they finally said that one must put “N/A” to answer the question related to making a profit.  Then a sheet of paper is attached to explain the nonprofit business.  

 

Now we all can file for FFLs!  Isn’t it awesome that the man who took away the rights of so many people also gave us the method by which those rights can be taken back?  

 

John – I always thought Emily Miller should have had Josh Sugarmann handle her FFL transfer.

Laws for them, but not for us.

Paul – I wonder if I can get an ffl for the Polite Society Podcast?

 

Constitutional carry for knives in Montana

Montana law treated knives with a blade of more than 4 inches the same as firearms in their concealed carry statute. It is legal to carry concealed weapons in most of Montana, without a permit, except inside city limits.  The new law only applied to people in incorporated towns and cities.

 

This year, 2017, Governor Bullock is term limited, and cannot run again. He vetoed the proposed Constitutional Carry bill for the third time.  But Governor Bullock allowed HB 251 to become law.  HB 251 is simple. It removes all weapons from the concealed carry law except firearms.  The votes for the bill were 70-29 in the House and 38 to 11 in the Senate. That is more than enough to override a veto from the Governor.

 

In Montana, if the governor does not sign or veto a bill, within 10 days after it is delivered to him, it becomes law.  Constitutional Carry for knives became law on April 21, 2017.  It goes into effect on 1 October, 2017.

 

Rob- Wish we had that in Louisiana.

 

Stacy Washington-

This next news column is a tribute to our listeners.  We’re read the hit-pieces from liberal media criticizing and slandering honest gun owners.  We’ve been called ammo-sexuals, trigger trash and child-killers.  We’ve heard the NRA compared to ISIS.  What is relatively new, is that articulate voices have spoken in opposition to these slanders..and then been fired from the media outlets because of their opinion.

 

The self-styled “progressive free press” is increasingly intolerant of views that don’t match their liberal talking points.  The most recent example was the indefinite suspension of Stacy Washington, a radio and print journalists from Saint Louis.  Stacy used to write for the Saint Louis Post Dispatch.  In an edited opinion column, Stacy criticized professional journalists who didn’t maintain journalistic standards when they were writing about gun owners and human rights organizations like the NRA.  She was fired precisely because she detailed the bias of her editors.

 

Only 7 percent of journalists describe themselves as republican or conservative.  We should not expect the liberal news organizations like the Saint Louis Post Dispatch, New York Times, Huffington post and Buzzfeed to support our opinions.  We should not expect fair reporting.  We should expect new media outlets to fill the information void left as these former news organizations unveil their propaganda.

 

Comment- Breitbart News didn’t exist 10 years ago.  Today they are the leading media outlet with more facebook and twitter reposts than the large liberal papers.

 

Comment- Colion Noir didn’t make videos ten years ago.  Stacy Washington didn’t have her own radio show ten years ago.  Dana Loesch had just started her blog at that point.  The only radio show that supported gun owners was Gun Talk.  Armed American Radio and Lock and Load Radio wouldn’t start for a few years.  The media universe is changing, and the old style outlets don’t like it.

 

Comment- We didn’t have podcasts delivered to your phone 10 years ago.  Stacy still has her blog and her radio show “Stacy on the Right”. I wonder who will pick up and syndicate her columns.

 

Rachel- technology has changed communication…that also changes activism

 

Rob- you live stream on FB.

 

Doubling down in California

California Assemblyman Kevin McCarty is pushing legislation to take away school administrators’ power to allow teachers with a Carry Concealed Weapon license (CCW) to be armed in classrooms for self-defense. McCarty’s bill is snaking its way through the legislative process. Two years ago, California passed a bill saying a concealed carry permit holder could not carry on any school campus unless they had the authorization of the school administrator. Well, out of the one thousand school districts in California, five of them decided to allow concealed permit holders to carry on their campuses. That upset the liberal california legislature and their liberal anti-gun donors.  Assemblyman McCarty  wants to take away the authority of local school boards to allow CCW holders to carry on their campuses.  Being a state law, there is no ability to sue the state when your child is attacked in public school.

 

Comment- I’m not sure if this new law would apply to private schools in California.

 

Rob- You might remember the five year old girl who picked up a stick and was playing with it in her school in North Carolina.  Her name is Caitlin.  She and another group of girls were playing “kings and queens” and Caitlin was pretending that she was guarding the palace with a gun.  Her father is a soldier in the US army.  Caitlin was suspended from kindergarten because of the school’s “zero-tolerance” policy.  Caitlin is now home schooled..because her parents have a zero-tolerance policy of their own.  I know that many people home school in California.

 

Gun Quotes- The world is filled with violence. Because criminals carry guns, we decent law-abiding citizens should also have guns. Otherwise they will win and the decent people will lose. James Earl Jones

 

Hang on everybody, we’ll be back with our guests Laura Carno and Sean Maloney.

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3- Interview 1- Laura Carno, FASTER training in Colorado

School will be out for the summer recess in a few weeks.  Some Colorado teachers will be taking some continuing education in armed defense and medical first response.  Some Colorado school districts already had armed staff for years now.  Starting this summer, they will also have world class defensive training that was developed in Ohio in the FASTER program.  Coloradans for civil liberties is bringing that training to their state.  To tell us about that, we we have Laura Carno with us.

 

Keeping kids safe in a broken world.

 

Colorado Sheriffs can certify teachers.  Do you have some sheriff’s representatives auditing the courses?

 

Press release from Coloradans for Civil Liberties

When you drop your kids off for school in the morning, or wave goodbye to them at the bus stop, do you ever say a little prayer for their safety? Ask yourself this: Are your kids as safe as they can possibly be at school, or do you just pretend they are to get through the day?

Some parents can say, “Yes! My kids are safe!” because they know that trained medical and armed first responders are ready to protect their children in school. But, not every parent can say that.

Last year, I attended training for these armed first responders in Ohio. It’s called FASTER training which stands for Faculty / Administrator Safety Training and Emergency Response. Essentially, it is training for school staff who volunteer to put their bodies between bullets and your kids — not their own kids— other people’s kids. Ohio has trained almost 900 people over the past 5 years. These 900 school staff members are nothing short of heroes in my book.

When I got back from FASTER training in Ohio, I vowed to bring this life-saving training to Colorado. Colorado kids deserve the same level of protection as Ohio’s kids!

I wrote an article about how the experience changed my life. Please read the whole thing.

Now, just 10 months later, we have our first Colorado FASTER class scheduled in June. We are offering this class through an organization I recently co-founded, Coloradans for Civil Liberties, in partnership with Independence Institute.

The Ohio training team is traveling to Colorado to train our Colorado training team, who will then conduct the ongoing FASTER Colorado classes.

FASTER training is for school staff who already have their Concealed Handgun Permit (CHP), and who have the permission of their school or charter board, or are on their way to having permission. We can also help school and charter boards with the process of granting permission.

I’m not asking for money, I’m asking for your help to save our children by identifying Colorado school staff members — those who have what it takes to volunteer to be those trained medical and armed first responders in their schools.

Now that we have our first class dates set in June, we want to make sure that first class is filled to capacity, and that we have waiting lists for our next classes.

Whether you are inside or outside of Colorado, do you know people in Colorado who are:

  • School staff members – teachers, administrators, janitors, etc. who would volunteer to save your children’s lives
  • School Board and Charter Board members – they are legally able to approve armed first responders in their schools.
  • School Board and Charter Board members who have already approved school staff members – this life-saving training is for their staff too.
  • Parents of children in Colorado schools – parents should demand that their kids are as safe as possible in schools, by being protected by FASTER trained school personnel.

Send this email to them. Ask them to read the article I wrote late year. Then ask them to go to FasterColorado.com and send me an email at CO2ALiberties@gmail.com. I want to hear from them.

The tuition is $1,000 for a 3-day class for those schools and districts who have the training budget for a class like FASTER. We also have scholarships available. We never want anyone to miss out on FASTER training due to the budget constraints of their school or district.

One thing we know about school shootings is that they will happen again. If it does happen at your school, will you be prepared?

 

4- Interview 2

Paloma Capanna-  Do you give up your rights when you own a gun?

Defending gun owners from breach of medical information and release of information kept on federal forms we’re required to submit when we buy a gun.

 

Decision from the District Ct can be found here. The case is now on appeal to the 2nd Circuit Ct of Appeals.

 

?- Doesn’t this conflict with another Fed law – HIPAA

 

Politicians get a free pass.

 

See you in Dallas!

http://law-policy.com/

 

5- DGUs  (at beginning) These discussions are NOT legal advice. Some of us are trainers, but this is not formal training and YOU NEED formal training. The Defensive Gun Use segment is intended as information, NOT as training. As always the opinions of the hosts are only their own opinions and not those of any sponsors or other affiliations.

 

Concealed Carrier stops possible Mass Shooting

On a recent Thursday evening, Cesar Perez was busy doing his job as the manager of the Zona Caliente Sports Bar and Grill in Arlington Texas.  He thought it was going to be a normal Thursday night.  At about 6 PM, all that changed.  James Jones walked into the bar and started yelling incoherently.  Perez tried to calm the man down.  

 

Meanwhile, a customer, who was also a concealed carrier, was sitting at the bar with this wife.  He was able to see or hear the disturbance between Perez and Jones going on.  During the course of their “argument” Jones pulled out a handgun and shot Perez.  Perez died at the scene.  The customer told his wife to get down on the ground and pulled his concealed gun.  He fired one shot, striking Jones in the back.  Jones thought the shot came from the front door and returned fire.  Luckily he did not shoot anyone else.  Jones also died at the scene.

 

Police found a second fully loaded semi-automatic on Jones and two knives.  The second firearm had the serial number filed off.  While Jones will never tell them what his intent was, he was certainly ready to shoot more than just Perez.  

 

Without the quick and decisive action of the Good Samaritan concealed carrier, more Jones could have taken the life of more patrons.

 

Since Zona Caliente makes the majority of its revenue from food, concealed carry was permitted and the Good Guy with a gun will not be facing any charges.

 

The only thing that defeats a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.  This good guy kept his situational awareness and knew that he was possibly the only person standing between Jones’ one victim becoming a major news story.  He got his loved one to a safe place and delivered 1 well placed shot which ended the situation.  

Rob-

 

Two Drive By Shooters Dead, 1 Intended Victim Untouched

Last weekend in North Houston, a homeowner was standing outside his home at 2:15 AM.  Three men in a Nissan sedan drove by with the intention of shooting him.  Unlucky for them was the fact that he possesses a concealed handgun license.  He returned fire.  The car crashed into another vehicle and the three men got out and continued the fight.  

 

The homeowner proved to be a better shot than the three.  After 40 shots fired, the three were all suffering from gunshot wounds and the homeowner was unharmed.  One was pronounced dead at the scene, one tried to flee but was apprehended and died at the hospital and the third was taken into custody at the scene and was being treated from his wounds.

 

The homeowner was determined to have acted in self defense.  Investigators had been to the same house the day before for a report of attempted arson.

 

There are questions which remain about this incident.  Why was this the second happening at this address in a couple of days?  

Rob- This being Houston, the third guy will be out of jail and back on the street in a week.

Rachel- no permit was necessary

Rob- low-light and shooting at moving targets made this a tough encounter.

Rob- confidence.

 

Domino’s Pizza Driver gets in trouble

It looks like Texas has been busy with DGU’s for the last week or so.  For this story, we stay in Texas and move back up to the Dallas area.

 

Domino’s Pizza driver, David Gerber, has had trouble coming at him on multiple occasions over the last week.  On May 6, he was given a deliver to make in Mesquite Texas.  It turned out the delivery was to a vacant house and also part of an ambush robbery.  Two individuals confronted Gerber and attempted to rob him.  One of the young thugs was armed with a handgun and fired at Gerber.  He was also armed and fired back at his assailants.

 

The two suspects then fled.  One 16 year old was found a short distance away with a gunshot wound.  He later expired from that injury.  His accomplice, also 16, was found and placed under arrest for aggravated robbery.

 

It was originally reported that Gerber did not have a handgun license which could have resulted in a charge of unlawfully carrying a weapon but later that was changed to the fact that he did have a concealed carry permit for the State of Arizona which is recognized by Texas.

 

Domino’s has suspended Gerber pending the investigation into the shooting.  Mesquite Police have referred the matter to the Dallas County grand jury to determine if charges are warranted.

 

This type of ambush robbery has to be a constant worry of any delivery driver and in particular those like pizza drivers who deal in cash.  We have reported that some companies such as Uber have a no guns policy.  It appears that Domino’s does not have such a policy and the only thing standing in the way of this driver getting his job back is the grand jury determining this was a good shoot.

 

Paul –

We post each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com  Please take a minute and share them with a friend.

 

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6- E-mail, blog notes, and show close

 

Listener feedback

Onair@politicsandguns.com  or call or text 605-215-1438

Text message #1

 

Evening crew,

 

A friend and I were going back and forth about which device would be best for home defense.

He says laser, I say a tac light. I’m not sure how much training he has had but I have a few classes under my belt. One of the things one of my instructors said was that with a light you can light up the threat with a quick on off or strobe method to blind them. Move, then yell your commands. My friend just says why do all that when I can just put my laser on them. Rolling my eyes, his comments make me think he lacks training. Anyway I’d love to know what’s you guys opinion. Keep up the good work. #Norecipes

 

Jp

 

Tac light vs Laser part 2. I forgot to mention that my instructor is retired SWAT. So I’d listen to him before taking advice from My know it all friend Barney Fife.

Rob

Paul – Combination light/laser

 

Question

Are there any plans to get POGO made on a patch? That would be cool to have on a range bag.

 

How bout that low turn out at the NRAAM by Mom’s demand action? I love it when Bloomberg bleeds green, what a waste. Lol

You would think someone with his net worth would have better things to do then harassing law abiding citizens. Until next time

 

JP

 

Rob- the demanding momies were flying in their supporters to the NRA AM.

John – Patch – maybe;

Rachel- so, JP, if you want that POGO patch, just get all the current PSP patches sold quickly!

 

JOHN – Text message #2

 

Hey guys this is kris from Nashville in episode 406 y’all were talking about how you keep your guns while you sleep. My wife and I do not have kids so I keep mine in a Safariland ALS holster on a police duty belt with double mag pouch and a Surefire flashlight. What do y’all think about this?

Rob-

 

ROB- Email #1

Alan of Henryetta, Oklahoma wrote in.

 

Dear Polite Society Folks,

In episode 407, Rob Morse mentioned that he had finished reading Dustin Solomon’s book, Building Shooters.  I would be interested in hearing how he has changed his training and/or teaching methods.

 

I am not a professional firearms instructor. If I were, and implemented the principles in the book to make sure my students actually learned something, I would quit and find another job. It would be impossible to make a living following an actual brain-based learning curriculum. Fortunately, I only teach individuals or very small groups from time to time. Since I and my students are not on a strict time table, I would limit the amount of material covered and limit instruction time to one hour, three times a week and follow the model Solomon lays out.

 

One of the most important training concepts mentioned in the book is that of interleaved or chaotic training. Some training programs use some of these principles. I took Rob Pincus’ Combat Focused Shooting course a few years ago. His figure 8 drill comes close, but there are still a lot of limitations on a live fire range.

 

Training by myself, or with a partner in my own outside space using the SIRT pistol has a lot of advantages such as freedom of movement and different light levels.  These are only a couple of things that I do, some previously known, some new and some reinforced from the material in the book.

Your turn,

Alan

 

Rob-

Hi, Alan.

Thank you for writing in.  You are right.  Our current style of firearms training is designed to make money for the instructor, not to teach the student.  We charge more for a 10 hour course than for a one hour course.  In fact, the student doesn’t learn much more from the longer course.  As students, we may walk away inspired, but not with new skills.

 

I went back and proved it to myself.  I’ve attended classes where I wrote down the material they covered.  I didn’t have those skills.  I might develop them through self-study, but the course did not teach them to me.  As an instructor, I’ve failed my students when the majority of them can’t apply the class material I present.  It isn’t their fault.  It is mine.  Given the way I’m teaching, selling a defective product.  That was the core of what I took away from Solomon’s book.

 

Let me bring new listeners up to speed.  Dustin Solomon’s conclusion is that we can only learn so much at a time.  Instructors in other fields recognized this a long time ago.  Think about the apprentice system where the student receives a few minutes of instruction every day.  Also consider the music teacher model and the local self-defense dojo model where the students get a weekly lesson.  A music teacher shows you what to do, but you have to practice at home to learn the skills.  We can do that with firearms instruction, and I find the change inspiring.  

 

I looked at the skills we need for self-defense, and I broke them down into the categories we can learn at the same time.  That means we can teach all the information, but not at the same time.  It turns out we can learn fine motor skills AND gross motor skills in the same lesson.  What we can’t do is learn a bunch of fine motor skills at the same time because the memories compete and interfere. For example, if I try to teach grip, trigger manipulation, and sight alignment in the same lesson, then I’m leaving it up to the student as to which skill, if any, the student actually learns.  That could be why we have to correct a student’s grip lesson after lesson.

 

Here is the good news.  I can teach grip and stance at the same time, since one is a fine motor skill and the other is a gross motor skill involving the lower body.  Planned instruction becomes a Chinese menu selection.  Take one fine motor skill from column A, one gross motor from column B, and one self-defense concept from column C.

 

As Allen said in a personal e-mail, the two day and four day classes are designed so institutional organizations can say their staff was (quote) trained (close quote.)

 

Rachel- I am so glad I have intelligent, articulate friends like you, Rob. It frustrates me that I can’t always make sure students are able to effectively apply instruction from an intensive course. I wish I could teach firearms like I teach music: weekly private lessons, with private practice mandated in between. I hope one day I will.  I look forward to continuing conversations with you, Rob.

 

Paul: Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?

 

Rob- I know you like to teach.  I wonder when you’ll start your own firearms instruction business.

 

Rob- I wrote a three part series on how our right to bear arms is infringed every day.  After hearing Donald J. Trump speak at the NRA, I wanted him to do more.  I wrote another article called “Talk is Cheap, President Trump”   I listed the things the President could do to protect our rights, actions that don’t depend on congressional approval.  That and more is posted at Clash Daily, at Ammoland and at my blog, slow facts dot wordpress dot com.

Paul –

John, tell us what’s new at your blog no lawyers only guns and money

 

John- After our friend Bob Owens of BearingArms.com committed suicide I fully expected nasty stuff coming from the gun prohibitionists and I wasn’t disappointed. What did disappoint me was a Facebook post by Charles Nichols of California Right to Carry. He is an embarrassment to the gun rights movement in general and to the open carry movement in particular. With people like him, who needs enemies.

 

That and more is at only guns and money dot blogspot dot com.

Paul – more than 40 people and comments were deleted and blocked

 

We would like to thank Charlie Foxtrot for writing up show notes for us. Even though you don’t hear him on the air he is certainly part of what you do hear. Look at his blog at not one more gun law dot blogspot dot com

 

Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast.  I’d like to thank (Guests) for joining us today.  So for Charlie Foxtrot,  Jae, Dana, Douglas, Gary, John, Rachel, Susan, Craig, and Rob,

(Paul, stop talking now)

 

Rob: Until the next time…

Gary: stay safe,

Rachel: be aware,

John: and we’ll see you down the road.

 

(after show close) How could we have made this episode better?

 

(DO NOT READ)Look at the shooters club by Bob Mayne and Ben Branam.  For $75.00 a year, $6.25 a month, you get 24/7 access to some fantastic training and audio podcasts that you can’t get anywhere else.  Subscribing from the link in our show notes helps Bob and Ben as well as helps us here at the Polite Society Podcast.

 

(DO NOT READ)Join your local civil rights group like the New Jersey Second Amendment Society, Arizona Citizens Defense League, Gun Owners of California, Commonwealth Second Amendment,  Connecticut Citizens Defense League, Florida Carry, Georgia Carry, Georgia Gun Owners, Grass Roots North Carolina, Illinois Carry, Maryland Shall Issue,  Michigan Gun Owners , Michigan Open Carry, and  Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners.

 

There are Minnesota Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance,  Nebraska Firearms Owners Association,   Citizens for a Safer New Jersey, New York State Rifle & Pistol Association,  Palmetto Concealed Carry, Open Carry Texas, Texas Firearms Freedom, Texas State Rifle Association. Tennessee Firearms Association, Virginia Citizens Defense League, Virginia Open Carry,  West Virginia Citizens Defense League, wisconsingunowners.org, and Wyoming Gun Owners.

 

For our Canadian listeners, and their supporters, join the Canadian Shooting Sports Association and the Canadian National Firearms Association.  If YOUR state or local organization isn’t read each episode, then send us an email and we’ll add them!

 

(DO NOT READ)The Polite Society download app is out on Amazon for Android and the I-phone app is in I-tunes and it is called Podcast Box.  They are located by our old name, Politics and guns.  Hot links are in our show notes.

 

Episode 408 – Simulcast with Eye on the Target Radio

 

Full Episode Download: http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/408.mp3

1- Hour 1

2- Hour 2

3- Hour 3

 

1- Introduction

Paul: Welcome to the polite society podcast powered by the Firearms Policy Coalition AND Eye on the Target Radio recorded on Monday, May the 1st 2017, I’m Paul Lathrop

Rob: I’m Rob Morse and on tonight’s show we will talk with Gail Pepin about infiltrating a Moms Demand Action event in Atlanta.

John: I’m John Richardson, and we’ll talk about the just wrapped up NRA Annual Meeting

Rachel: I’m Rachel Malone, and we’ll also talk about the A Girl and a Gun training in Burnet, Texas.

Gary: I’m Gary Daugherty and in one of our DGU’s we talk about a 7-11 that exercised their second amendment rights .. so climb aboard

Rachel: strap in

Rob : and hang on!

Paul:  episode 408 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.

Paul: But wait.  This episode is a little different.  We’re here with Rob and Amanda of the Eye on the Target radio program and we’re broadcasting live on their show as we record.

Amanda: Hi, Paul – Rachel, great to “see” you again.   We will be talking about Conference, convention – or annual meeting as they call it  and the movies.

Rob Campbell, Hi to the entire Polite society co-hosts and their audience and ours.

We are so glad to be doing a simulcast – if you will.   Or a Simul-Podcast…  Stay tuned for 3 hours of fun

Show intro music.

 

Personal news from each participant (when you are done with your segment please ask the next person what has been up with them)

 

Rob Morse- Annual meeting.  Usual suspects and some unusual.  Met some Breitbart executives who were talking with AWR hawkins.  I also got to talk with Marcus Weldon, but we never the COO and CTO of breitbart news.  Talked to the president of Springfield and the staff at Rock River.

 

John – The NRA Annual Meeting was great. I learned a ton at the Law Seminar, met a lot of people we’ve had on the podcast for the first time in person, and got to hang with some really cool people. The NRA was really promoting their Carry-Guard program after disinviting USCCA and 2nd Call Defense. Against that backdrop, I renewed my membership in Armed Citizens Legal Defense Fund. I wanted to be a person and not a number. Gila and Marty Hayes see me and know me by name. The other controversy going on involved Springfield Armory and Rock River Arms who may have thrown small Illinois dealers under the bus by going neutral on the bill that adds state regulation on top of ATF regulation. Finally, while it didn’t feel like it, the attendance numbers put Atlanta in 2nd position behind Houston in terms of attendees with approximately 81,000.

 

Rachel

  • Girl & A Gun conference – taught with David
  • New holster

 

Gary

Paul/Susan New shooters day yesterday. Breaking in new AR

 

Rob Campbell   Amanda and I were also at the NRA Annual Meeting,  and I looked at all the guns,  Have to say not much new.   But there was one.  Gilboa Snake – by Gilboa USA.com and its a twin barreled AR.  

Amanda  I was at NRA too.  But have to say, that while Rob is looking at guns, and rifling and all that stuff,  I was talking to people.

 

Promo about upcoming training classes here.

 

Gary – Patches – I’ll have them up on the Facebook page. $10 for 1, $18 for 2. PayPal to john@politicsandguns.com

 

Promo about upcoming training classes here.

(May 20-21) MAG-20. Florence, TX

(May 21 and June 10) Ohio Personal Protection and Concealed Carry – Targething.com

(June 9-11 2017). MAG-30. Florence, TX

(June 24, 25th 2017).  Beyond Concealed Carry Enhanced.  9am -5pm both days. Richmond, IL

(July 8, 2017) Defensive Rifle Skills for the Armed Citizen https://squareup.com/store/concealedcarryassociates

(August 10-13, 2017). MAG-40. Sioux Falls, SD

(August 26 & 27, 2017). Beyond Concealed Carry Enhanced. Sioux Falls, SD

(Saturday, February 3, 2018) Law of Self Defense LEVEL 1 Class: South Dakota

(Saturday, February 4, 2018) Law of Self Defense LEVEL 2 Class: South Dakota

 

Amanda –  Rachel,  let’s share with folks what we were all doing in Texas a week or two ago.  The annual  AGAG conference.  Rachel – we were in your home state.  This was my first year doing it.   Was really happy to be joining 57 other noteworthy instructors including yourself.  But I have to say that I was not prepared for the weather swing –

Rob Campbell – Yeah,  that weather was 90 the first day,  50 the second day 70 the third.  Kinda like Papa bear, Mama bear and baby bear.   But it was great and we are coming back – if they invite us – for next year.   Rachel – how and when did you get involved in this?   And tell us what you taught and your experiences with the 390 gals that were on the Ranch for the 3 days.

Rachelle

And around in a conversation that tosses from person to person till 7:30 commercial break…  if anyone wants in, toss their name here.  

Amanda – Live read commercial for Urban Moxy.

TIME

7:30

Amanda- Let us tell you about our crazy month of April.   We were in a Movie filmed in Cleveland-

Rob Campbell – telling them about being extras in the movie. (then toss it to someone to start

Open conversation about guns used in movies)

Gary-  

the realities and the falsehoods.  The truth about guns in the movies- bling rules

Rob-

Paul – I want to talk about the Amazon original Bosch. GREAT gun handling and realistic attitudes about guns.

  

7:45

NRA convention-  sights, sightings and people.    Who went, who’s sorry they missed it.  Which ones have you all attended and what was the most memorable part.

 

Rob Campbell- these events have changed over the years.  We have been to it for years.  Think Dallas may be my first one, remember Phoenix specifically and they had many more off campus events.   Phoenix set up a tour of Dillon Precision.   Tell about it a bit.

Amanda –  As I said – these, for me are about the people.  This year hit a milestone – had my picture taken with Wayne LaPierre,  and again with lt col. And US House of representatives Allen West.  Even if I did have bad hair – but that’s another story.

 

Rob Morse- Annual meeting.

Gabby Franco, R Lee Earmy, Jessie Duff, Bob Lathum, Sheriff Clarke, Alan West

 

Talked to the president of Springfield and the staff at Rock River.  The other controversy going on involved Springfield Armory and Rock River Arms who may have thrown small Illinois dealers under the bus by going neutral on the bill that adds state regulation on top of ATF regulation.

 

Finally, while it didn’t feel like it, the attendance numbers put Atlanta in 2nd position behind Houston in terms of attendees with approximately 81,000.

 

8:00.01 or anytime soon after  (our news kicks directly at the hour and is available)

RobM-

 

2- News 1

 

Paul – Black college student victim of confusing gun laws

Gun proponents in Illinois say the case of a recent Black college student who was arrested in Chicago is the reason why there needs to be a national gun law. Jamaal Jackson was arrested last month in the Grand Crossing community after he and the mother of his child got involved in a loud verbal argument and police were called. When police entered the private residence they searched Jackson and found a gun, which he legally bought and can have in Alabama. But because he took the gun from his vehicle and into a private home earlier that day, he needs a Firearm Owner’s Identification Card from Illinois to remove it from the vehicle, according to Illinois law. But he is ineligible to get a FOID card because he is not an Illinois resident, which puts citizens from another state in a trick bag when they visit Illinois and want to exercise their 2nd Amendment rights. Jackson, who was born and raised in Chicago, lives in Selma, Alabama where he is a junior business administration major at Selma University. He has been charged with a Class 4 felony of aggravated unlawful use of a weapon, something his father fears can ruin his life.

Rob- Police advise us to bring our guns indoors.

Rachel- It should be (and is) against the law to cause harm to another.

Rob- the goal is to make honest gun owners into criminals, not to stop criminals from getting guns.

 

Rob- The real goal of gun control

The purpose of gun control in Nazi Germany was to subdue the populace.  Unarmed civilians are of little concern to heavily armed government police and military forces.  A similar gun grab is being perpetrated in present day Venezuela.  

 

Of course, Interior Minister Nestor Reverol gave good justification for the confiscation.  He stated, “We are going to bring disarmament and peace.”  Who could argue with that?  The country’s murder rate was 73 per 100,000 before the ban.  The murder rate in the US is somewhere around 5 per 100,000.  That includes Chicago!  However, after the guns were taken from the people of Venezuela, the murder rate skyrocketed to nearly 92 per 100,000.

 

President Nicolas Maduro is not content, though.  He knows the country with the richest oil reserves on the planet is failing.  He knows the citizens are fed up with the deplorable living conditions.  So, what would any self-respecting totalitarian do next?  Arm his supporters, of course!  Serfs armed with torches and pitchforks are of little concern to well-armed militia.

 

This news comes on the anniversary of the April 1775 Battles of Lexington and Concord.  If the British Crown had been successful in their gun confiscation, American colonists would not have had the means to separate from Britain.  There would have been no “shot hear around the world.”  

 

If you believe gun control advocates are truly concerned about safety, just watch what happens in Venezuela.  An unarmed society is an impolite society.

 

Gary-

Rob- Rachel, you talk about this in appleseed, don’t you.

Rob Campbell-

Amanda- the zoo

 

Rachel- Changes in the Health administration

The previous administration appointed Vivek Murthy as the Surgeon General with the backing of the Senate in 2014. Last week, both sides of the divided Nation remember Murthy’s headlining label, “Gun Violence is a health threat to the American people” when Murthy was asked to step aside. Social media didn’t waste time announcing Murthy would not be finishing the remaining quarter of the appointed term. One smooth transition in a presidential term deserves another. It is assumed President Trump is continuing to quickly replace Obama appointees with fresh blood, leaving vacancies until filled. Rear Admiral Sylvia Trent-Adams, a nurse officer, will serve as acting surgeon general and leader of the U.S. Public Health Service Commissioned Corps. The Nation awaits the Senate’s confirmation for the replacement which will be nominated by the Trump administration.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/vivek-murthy-obama-era-surgeon-general-replaced/

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/04/21/us/politics/surgeon-general-trump-administration.html?referer=https://chorus.voxmedia.com/editor/9ad66b2a-b887-4fe6-a255-2630ef4eea50

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/trump-admin-fires-surgeon-general-called-guns-health-issue-article-1.3088358

Paul

Amanda-

 

Rob- This is a rule, not an exception.

 

Gary- California, again

A recent article in Forbes magazine points to another instance of discriminatory rulings in modern American jurisprudence.  Contributing columnist George Leef’s article centers around the state’s “symbolic” law regarding “gun free school zones.”  Mr. Leef is correct to point out that such laws do “nothing to stop a determined killer.”  

 

The original legislation allowed retired law enforcement and concealed permit holders to carry on campus.  However, in 2015 the anti-gunners were able to pass a measure eliminating the exception for permit holders.  Retired law enforcement individuals, including game wardens, are still allowed to carry in schools.

 

Enter Dr. Ulises Garcia.  He obtained his concealed weapons permit subsequent to receiving threats from former patients.  Thus, Dr. Garcia has been deprived of his rights and placing himself at risk while attending school events with his children.

 

He joined with other plaintiffs in a suit seeking relief.  The theory of the case was that this law violates the Fourth Amendment’s equal protection clause by treating two classes of citizens differently.  

 

In her ruling, District Judge Beverly O’Connell summarily dismissed this argument with what can only be described as reckless disregard of the law.  She stated, “The legislative history of the Act here does not indicate that the California Legislature was trying to prejudice civilian firearm owners when it retained the Retired Peace Officers Exemption absent evidence of explicit legislative intent…”  Do you believe Jim Crow laws exhibited “explicit legislative intent?”  

 

Perhaps this judge acted in such a cavalier manner because she knew the Ninth Circuit would see it her way. https://www.forbes.com/sites/georgeleef/2017/04/24/second-amendment-or-second-class-citizens/#17aa86971ef1

 

Paul- I read recently that President trump is thinking of breaking up the 9th circuit. I wonder if this will make it to the Supremes before that happens

Rob- We don’t have lobbyists who make large political contributions.  Law enforcement and corrections officers do.

 

Gary-

 

Constitutional Carry in Texas – update

The saga continues, with Texas liberty activists pushing for constitutional carry. We believe, anyone who owns a handgun should be able to carry it. Apparently that does not please the King – Chairman Phil King, that is. Let’s quickly review the episodes that have already played out this session: (1) 375 filed – if you own it, you carry it. (2) 1911 filed – if you’re eligible to apply for a license, you may carry without a license. Read more below:

 

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/04/robert-farago/texas-constitutional-carry-saga-continues/

The current version of 1911 is currently in Calendars committee and contains, among other problems, a section that could allow law enforcement to stop and ID someone merely for carrying a handgun. Meanwhile, 375, a solid bill, never has made it out of the Calendars Committee. The blame goes to Chairman Phil King.

 

Gun Quotes- Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves. William Pitt (the Younger)

 

Hang on everybody, we’ll be back with our guest (Gail Pepin).

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3- Interview 1  Gail Pepin ( 9:05)

Mom’s demand t-shirts

 

5- DGUs  (at beginning) These discussions are NOT legal advice. Some of us are trainers, but this is not formal training and YOU NEED formal training. The Defensive Gun Use segment is intended as information, NOT as training. As always the opinions of the hosts are only their own opinions and not those of any sponsors or other affiliations.

 

We post each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com  Please take a minute and share them with a friend.

 

Greenville Domestic Abuser gets shot in leg

On a recent Friday, a Greenville, North Carolina woman was in an argument with her ex-boyfriend.  The fight got physical and was carried into a neighbor’s yard.  The neighbor attempted to intervene and the ex-boyfriend, Tyree Barksdale, turned his anger on him.  The neighbor retrieved a gun and shot Barksdale in the leg.  Police responded to a shots fired 911 call.  Barksdale was treated to non-life-threatening injuries while the neighbor and ex-girlfriend were nursing their own minor injuries.

While all ended “well” in this incident, it is not a wise thing to intervene in a domestic fight.  While you are trying to break up the fight, it can quickly go from one on one to two on one and you are the one.  

 

Rob – I had a really bad night

A Florida man told a Marion County Florida Sheriff’s Deputy “I had a really bad night last night. I really don’t remember going to her house.”  Anthony Tally wanted to apologize to the woman whose door he had kicked in on the previous night.

 

The previous night the homeowner was awoken by loud banging coming from outside her home.  When she turned on the porch light, she saw a man banging on her back door with his fists and screaming “I’m going to get you…”  The homeowner retreated out the front door and fled to a neighbor’s house as Tally broke through her back door.  Her neighbor grabbed his gun and went to her home.  He witnessed Tally near the back porch.  He then crashed through the wooden gate.  The neighbor fired a shot in the air like any untrained gun owner is wont to do.

 

The next day, another woman saw two men in the neighborhood and told them of the breakin.  She noticed one of the men, Tally, had scratches on his arms.  He confessed and vowed to apologize to the victim.  She then went to the victim’s home to warn her.

 

The homeowner’s son was also there and armed.  As Tally approached the home, he was detained at gunpoint by the son and then secured by neighbors until the deputies arrived.  

Paul – We are not the police!

Rachel- My opinion: a poorly-trained carrier is most likely to fire a warning shot in the air.

Rob- She retreated when she had the opportunity.  Good for her.

Gary-

Amanda – i don’t remember, but I confess???

 

Rachel 7-11 Store Clerk defends store

A 35 year old 7-11 store clerk decided it was time for a smoke break at 3:50 AM.  Suddenly, an armed man approached and tried to rob her.  But this clerk was also carrying.  She pulled her firearm and shot the man in the chest, arm and thigh.  During the gun battle, she was also wounded in the leg.  The robbery thug was pronounced dead at the hospital and the clerk was treated for her wounds.  It was not known whether the clerk had a permission slip to conceal carry.  Missouri is a constitutional carry state.

Paul-

Rob- Leg shots are often fatal.  They are not “safe”.

 

Gary- Bakersfield Doctor defends himself

Even in California, you have a right to self-defense.  Last week a Bakersfield doctor was assaulted by a man who was not a patient.  He claimed he was there to inquire about becoming a patient when he attached the doctor.  During the assault, the deceased made comments about money.  Dr Edwin Zong was not carrying but had a firearm in a desk drawer. The doctor retrieved his legally registered gun from the drawer and shot his assailant 3 times in the upper torso.  The suspect fled but was found in a nearby parking lot.

 

The doctor was also licensed to carry but was not.  The clinic does issue medical marijuana prescriptions which may have prompted the attempted robbery.  Officials ruled that this was self-defense and the doctor will not be charged.

 

Paul – POGO

Amanda – yes

Another 45 seconds or so…

BREAK? Go to listener feedback out of break  

Will kick it to?

 

Huntsville homeowner kills burglar

A Huntsville Texas homeowner arrived at home earlier this month just before 11 PM when he noticed his back door kicked in.  He went back to his car and got his handgun.  When he returned to his house, he confronted two men.  He fired at both men and struck both.  One died at the house and the other fled and showed up later at a local hospital. This was ruled self-defense by the local police.

 

While removing your firearm from its holster while driving is an acceptable thing to do, Pants On Gun On means rearming when you reach your destination when permissible.  Was he going to leave his firearm in his car overnight?  Shouldn’t the first thing be a call to law enforcement?  Is it wise to enter a building when you suspect there could be thugs possibly inside?

 

What is that protection order for?

It seemed that a Oklahoma woman had enough after a man repeatedly ignored a protection order.  Of course a protection order prohibits any contact unless authorized by the court.

 

A few day after the order was granted, Larry Grammer contacted the woman several times including threatening to come after her and her life if she didn’t provide the title to her car which Grammer had possession.  The woman filed a complaint and Grammer denied calling the woman.  Recently he was at the woman’s home again.  Law enforcement was called and then dispatch broadcast “the woman had a rifle and was standing on the porch, yelling for Larry to leave the house.”  Police responded with light and sirens.  Grammer backed out of the drive and drove away at a high rate of speed.

 

Grammer was pulled over and denied that he had been at her house.  She said he had come demanding her debit card which was verified by two witnesses.  Grammer was arrested and hauled off to the county jail.

 

Once again, protection orders do not protect those who seek them.  You need to take defense and your loved ones into your own control.  That may include owning and possibly using a firearm.  In this case, the trigger did not have to be pulled.

 

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6- E-mail, blog notes, and show close

 

Listener e-mail discussion

Paul- Text message #1

 

Afternoon PS Crew

My question is if you’re going buy a used gun. How do you know if you’re not buying someone else’s headache?

 

Thanks

JP

=================================

Rob- Some used gun shops offer a lifetime guarantee.  Other than that, you don’t know.

Rachel- get a reputable brand that holds up over time (and has resale value). Also, I try to talk with them and figure out why they’re selling it.

Paul- Major manufacturers will warranty their stuff

Rob Campbell

 

Rob – Text message #2

 

Thanks for mentioning my footwear question. Any publications from female instructors who could help convey the importance of footwear to my girlfriend? -Clayton

 

Rachel- Yes, I’d be happy to let her know how important and wonderful flip-flops are.

amanda-

======================

 

Rachel -Email #1

 

Carl wrote in about a Pittsburgh story that concerned him.

=======================================

 

I sincerely hope there’s more to this story.  The way it is written, it sounds as if the police just shoot you if you are carrying a shotgun.  

 

http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2017/04/29/police-shoot-man-carrying-shotgun-in-east-liberty/

 

This is terrible news reporting.

 

Carl

==================================

 

This is the full text of the article in question (Gary can you please read this?)

 

PITTSBURGH (KDKA) — A man has been hospitalized following an officer-involved shooting in East Liberty.

According to police, it happened around 1:30 a.m. Saturday.

Officers were called to the area of the 700 block of Mellon Street for a report of a male wearing a red hooded sweatshirt who was armed with a shotgun.

Upon arrival, responding officers saw a male matching that description walking along the 600 block of North Highland Avenue.

An officer shot the man in his left side. The man, believed to be in his 20s, was transported to UPMC Presbyterian. He was alert and conscious.

The shotgun was recovered at the scene.

No further information was released.

=============================

 

Paul – I agree. PA is an open carry state. I think that there has to be more to the story

 

Paul: Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?

 

Rob- Infringing the right to bear arms series, When we consider the many layers of government, it is easy to see that they have a very difficult time leaving any aspect of our lives unregulated.  Politicians rationalize their regulation of self-defense by wrapping their restrictions in the cloak of public safety.  In fact, that cloak has often been the white sheet of racism directed against minorities and the poor.

 

https://slowfacts.wordpress.com/2017/04/25/infringing-the-right-to-bear-arms-you-need-a-permit-to-do-that/

Clash Daily.  Ammoland.  Slowfacts. That is at slow facts dot wordpress dot com.  That and more is at only guns and money dot blogspot dot com.

 

CRASHED :’(

We would like to thank Charlie Foxtrot for writing up show notes for us. Even though you don’t hear him on the air he is certainly part of what you do hear. Look at his blog at not one more gun law dot blogspot dot com

 

Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast.  I’d like to thank (Guests) for joining us today.  So for Charlie Foxtrot,  Jae, Dana, Gary, John, Rachel, Susan, Craig, and Rob,

(Paul, stop talking now)

 

Rob: Until the next time…

Gary: stay safe,

Rachel: be aware,

Amanda?: and we’ll see you down the road.

 

(after show close) How could we have made this episode better?

 

(DO NOT READ)Look at the shooters club by Bob Mayne and Ben Branam.  For $75.00 a year, $6.25 a month, you get 24/7 access to some fantastic training and audio podcasts that you can’t get anywhere else.  Subscribing from the link in our show notes helps Bob and Ben as well as helps us here at the Polite Society Podcast.

 

(DO NOT READ)Join your local civil rights group like the New Jersey Second Amendment Society, Arizona Citizens Defense League, Gun Owners of California, Commonwealth Second Amendment,  Connecticut Citizens Defense League, Florida Carry, Georgia Carry, Georgia Gun Owners, Grass Roots North Carolina, Illinois Carry, Maryland Shall Issue,  Michigan Gun Owners , Michigan Open Carry, and  Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners.

 

There are Minnesota Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance,  Nebraska Firearms Owners Association,   Citizens for a Safer New Jersey, New York State Rifle & Pistol Association,  Palmetto Concealed Carry, Open Carry Texas, Texas Firearms Freedom, Texas State Rifle Association. Tennessee Firearms Association, Virginia Citizens Defense League, Virginia Open Carry,  West Virginia Citizens Defense League, wisconsingunowners.org, and Wyoming Gun Owners.

 

For our Canadian listeners, and their supporters, join the Canadian Shooting Sports Association and the Canadian National Firearms Association.  If YOUR state or local organization isn’t read each episode, then send us an email and we’ll add them!

 

(DO NOT READ)The Polite Society download app is out on Amazon for Android and the I-phone app is in I-tunes and it is called Podcast Box.  They are located by our old name, Politics and guns.  Hot links are in our show notes.

 

Episode 407 – Shelley Hill and Kevin Davis

Full Episode Download: http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/407.mp3

1- Open and Personal News Segment

2- News Segment 

3- Interview Segment 1: Shelley Hill

4- Interview Segment 2: Kevin Davis

5- DGU Segment:

6- Email and Show Close:

 

1- Introduction

Paul: Welcome to the polite society podcast sponsored by the Firearms Policy Coalition recorded on Thursday, the 20th of April, I’m Paul Lathrop

Rob: I’m Rob Morse and on tonight’s show we talk with Kevin Davis about when Police officers should use force, and when you should.

John: I’m John Richardson, and we’ll talk about bad things happening to good people.

Gary: I’m Gary Daugherty and in one of our DGU’s we talk about two criminals that failed in the victim selection process by breaking into a retired Marine’s home …so climb aboard

Rob: strap in

John : and hang on!

Paul:  episode 407 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.

Show intro music.

 

Personal news from each participant (when you are done with your segment please ask the next person what has been up with them)

 

Rob, Live fire at the range, dry fired a couple times at home.  I finished Dustin Solomon’s book, “Building Shooters”.  I recommend it.  It changed how I train and how I teach.   I booked a hotel room for a beginning firearms class I’m taking.  I have to buy ammo.  I met my first legal texas 30.06 sign.  I recorded a few episodes of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  I got my car ready for a trip.. And that is firearms related because.. NRAAM.

 

John – Like Rob, we are getting ready to leave for Atlanta for the NRA Annual Meeting. We’ve been checking out the MARTA rail system which, by the way, allows concealed carry on its trains. I’ve been pocket carrying my Ruger LCP II a lot and it is really convenient. I also just bought a shoulder holster from Ken Null which I hope to use with a revolver. I will have to practice with it a good deal before I decide to carry with it. That’s about it for me.

Rob

 

Gary

Paul/Susan: New AR – patreon

John – Patches – I’ll have them up on the Facebook page. $10 for 1, $18 for 2.

Promo about upcoming training classes here.

(June 9-11 2017). MAG-30. Georgetown, TX

(June 24, 25th 2017).  Beyond Concealed Carry Enhanced.  9am -5pm both days. Richmond, IL

(July 8, 2017) Defensive Rifle Skills for the Armed Citizen https://squareup.com/store/concealedcarryassociates

(August 10-13, 2017). MAG-40. Sioux Falls, SD

(August 26 & 27, 2017). Beyond Concealed Carry Enhanced. Sioux Falls, SD

(Saturday, February 3, 2018) Law of Self Defense LEVEL 1 Class: South Dakota

(Saturday, February 4, 2018) Law of Self Defense LEVEL 2 Class: South Dakota

Break

 

2- News 1

 

Bad Things Happen No Matter Where You Are

The world endured a harsh wake-up call this last week to the fact that evil things still happen despite the daily hope that nothing bad will happen as one carries out normal errands like visiting family and grocery shopping. According to his uploaded facebook video, Steve Stephens manipulated his tool to murder 74-year-old Robert Godwin. Excusing himself from personal responsibility, he blamed it on his failed courting relationship with Joy Lane. Instead of sympathy for his pain from his gambling debt and other problems, the nation banded together to bring this killer to justice by actively helping the police with their manhunt. The suspect ended his own life after being cornered by the police chase, leaving the nation to ask, ‘what else could go wrong?’

http://abcnews.go.com/US/cleveland-facebook-murder-suspect-shot-killed-pursuit-police/story?id=46863880

http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/18/us/cleveland-facebook-killing-video/index.html

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/04/18/inside-mind-facebook-killer.html

The question was semi-answered in a state known for its numerous laws limiting citizens, but not convicted criminals from packing illegal weapons and murdering on a whim. Conflicting motives of the once outgoing down to earth and health advocate security guard, Kori Ali “Black Jesus” Muhammad are unclear. He encouraged followers with hashtags such as “#LetBlackPeopleGo” and “black warriors” need to “mount up” against the “white devils”, but he shouted “Allahu Akbar” or “God is great” in Arabic when police tackled the suspect to the ground ending in his arrest. His random shooting spree had been at 4 locations with 3 Caucasian fatalities ranging from 34 -58. Whether it was his religious beliefs, gang affiliations, or hate crimes, he is claiming insanity and the possibility that the justice system is conspiring against him. The nation is torn about guns and personal safety once again.

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/fresno-shooting-suspect-kori-ali-muhammad-custody/

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/04/18/fresno-shooting-rampage-suspect-who-shot-dead-3-wanted-to-kill-as-many-people-as-possible-police-say.html

 

Paul – POGO if you can

John – I despise the term “hate crime” – aren’t all crimes based upon a measure of hate? Violence is violence – does the reason really matter?

 

Rob- John, all crimes are not hate crimes.  Some people didn’t get a permit to open a lemonade stand.  There is evil in the world.  Laws won’t stop these murderers.  You will.  Thank you for taking care of the people you love.

 

Peruta to be heard by the Supremes?

An infamous case from the infamous Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals appears to be first in line to find out what newly confirmed Justice Gorsuch is all about.  Justice Gorsuch is scheduled to participate in a hearing as to whether the Peruta v. County of San Diego case will be heard by the nation’s highest court.  

 

The Peruta case revolves around California’s “good cause” requirement for law abiding citizens to be issued a carry permit.  This case was originally found in Mr. Peruta’s favor by a three judge panel of the Circuit.  The infamous Kamala Harris, then California Attorney General, pushed to have the case heard en banc.  In June 2016 the court reversed the panel’s ruling, thus supporting the “good cause” requirement and ignoring the precedent set in the Heller case.

 

The hearing of this case by a Supreme Court that actually follows the Constitution should provide an excellent starting point for a new era of rights restoration.  Do you think the District and Circuit courts will listen?

 

John- This week they  refused to hear a case out of New Jersey – Stephens v Jerejian. That case, however, was a pro se or serving as his own attorney. Those kind of cases are dangerous in that the pro se plaintiff doesn’t really know the law and a bad case can then end up as a precedent.

 

Gary-

 

Rob- The SCOTUS rules on how court decisions were made, not on the decision.  They would remand the case back to the lower court and describe the proper standards of review.

 

Paul- I read a story today that there are rumors flying about another resignation in SCOTUS

John- That would be Charles Grassley of Iowa. He is chairman of the Senate Judiciary Comm.

John- Justice Kennedy is most senior followed by Clarence Thomas.

 

Show me how gun free zones help people

Lawmakers in Missouri are busy fighting the good fight.  Representative Jered Taylor has sponsored legislation that would eliminate many “gun-free zones” throughout the state.  The criminal hunting grounds include child care facilities, universities and churches.  Of course, a Kansas City representative, Jon Carpenter seemed shocked.  He asked, “Is this for show or is this for real?”  Kudos to Rep. Taylor for stating that he wants, “individuals to be able to choose…”  He realizes that signs do not stop criminals.  Another voice speaking the truth is always helpful.

 

Missouri Rep. Nick Schroer is sponsoring another bill that would hold those who post “gun-free” signs in their businesses liable for harm suffered by disarmed patrons.  As he so eloquently said, “These killers are not stopped by a sign on the front door.”  

 

Way to go Missouri!

Rob- I want to make the politicians show us the plastic signs stop crime.

John- Missouri is a strange state. Conservative state with liberal bookends.

 

College employees Volunteer to Carry

Approximately 500 public university employees in Tennessee are carrying concealed firearms on college campuses.  The current law only allows full-time employees to carry on campus.  The University of Tennessee police chief, Troy Lane, is concerned.  He is, “unaware of how or why adding part-time employees would make [the] campus safer.”  His concern is that they do not know the part-time people as well as the real co-workers.  Perhaps he is unaware that these people must be vetted through the permitting system in place for the State.  

 

These people who know better than the rest of us continue to fight any measure that would result in more people being able to defend themselves or others from violent attacks.  They grudgingly admit that they are unaware of any problems that have arisen from good people carrying firearms on the State’s campuses.  

 

Rob- Guest lecturers, police chiefs are appointed, not elected.

John- You mean like I used to be. I knew most of the business faculty.

 

Gun Quotes- An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it . Col Jeff Cooper

More: http://www.catb.org/esr/fortunes/rkba.html

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1KZaH8_eP_ofJXMetPAgoe6wwJ9MeUWcDtvqPE3xUQ08/edit

 

Hang on everybody, we’ll be back with our guest (Name).

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3- Interview 1

 

4 – Interview 2

 

Kevin Davis trains civilians and law enforcement on the use of force.  He wrote the book Citizen’s Guide to Armed Defense..and he recently spoke at the recent Rangemaster Tactical Conference.

Welcome Kevin.  His book is “Citizen’s Guide to Armed Defense”

https://www.amazon.com/Citizens-Guide-Armed-Defense-Kevin/dp/1440243638

 

Compare and contrast when police officers should use force vs when civilians should.

So, as a graduate question, help our listeners.  Suppose your adult daughter hears someone banging on her door in the middle of the night.  How should she answer it so she will be safe from an attacker, and from a policeman who is at the wrong house looking for a known criminal.

Kevin R. Davis blog. http://www.kevinrdavisblog.com

 

5- DGUs (at beginning) These discussions are NOT legal advice. Some of us are trainers, but this is not formal training and YOU NEED formal training. The Defensive Gun Use segment is intended as information, NOT as training. As always the opinions of the hosts are only their own opinions and not those of any sponsors or other affiliations.

 

Best Defense

Paul and Kristin Sadler retired to their bedroom one evening last month and their Doberman pinscher, G,  followed.  As they fell asleep, G ran out of the room barking.  They called him back thinking he was aroused by the neighborhood coyotes.  After 15 minutes, G was off again.  This time they heard a man saying “Whoa…whoa.”

 

A home invasion.  The Sadlers had prepared after watching an episode of “The Best Defense” on the Outdoor Channel.  They had felt safe in the country in rural Iowa but after watching the show, they started discussing their plans on what to happen if someone invaded their home.  

 

Plan A. Paul grabs his firearm, but that plan was thwarted when he left his gun in the kitchen.  Fortunately, Kristin Sadler had hers.

 

Plan B. Kristin called 911 and Paul went for his gun.  He snuck into the kitchen, located his gun in the dark and then flicked on the lights.

 

A “clean-cut young man” stood in the kitchen.  Paul pointed his gun at someone for the first time and asked what he was doing.  The man was lost, ran out of gas and clearly confused.  It took authorities 20 minutes to arrive during which time, Paul continued to hold up his gun and they talked.  He said he was a veteran of the recent wars.  They never found out if he was armed.

 

Not every DGU ends with the trigger being pulled.  Like we say you need formal training.  These DGUs are not formal training but they will give you some ideas for situational awareness.  What am I or are we going to do if…..  For preventing a home invasion, lock all ground floor doors and windows.  Have a plan.  Get firearm training for home defense.  Consider a safe room.  Be aware of a your surroundings.  Use these DGUs to consider what can happen and develop a plan in your head on how will you react.  Plan for alone and with your family.

(End of Story)

 

John

Rob- Having a plan kept this intruder alive.  The couple trained to recognize a threat.

Paul – Have you practiced holding at gunpoint? It is NOT easy.

 

Vets like guns

Two career criminals picked the wrong apartment to break into.  That apartment belonged to a Marine vet and his 29 year old son.  The two thugs were  dressed in black, one was holding a 2 foot pipe.  Brian Sant, the veteran was still up at 3 AM after working the late shift when the pair kicked in the door.  He began to fight with the two which woke up this son.  He stepped out of the bedroom and fired at both intruders.  Scorecard 1 dead and 1 in serious condition.

The room temperature thug, Danny Tupu had dozens of convictions ranging from misdemeanors to felonies and was wanted on a warrant for his arrest.  The police immediately ruled the shooting self-defense but later changed their statement saying that the case had been turned over to homicide investigators.  

 

Sant commented “You got veterans living around in these apartments.  You don’t know who has got a gun.”  He stated that he did not know the men or why they picked his apartment to invade. After the last eight years of brilliant salesmanship by Mr. Obama, I think the same could be said of any home.  With Utah lowering the age to 18, even outside the home, you don’t know who will be armed.  (end of story)

 

Uber Crime Encouragement Zones

Uber has a policy prohibiting drivers and riders from carrying firearms.  A 44 year old driver is lucky he ignored that policy.  Just after dropping off a passenger in the early morning hours, two men jumped in his car and one point a gun at him and told him to drive.  He drove to a location on Bienville in New Orleans where he was ordered out of the car.  He got out but fought back and fired on the two, wounding one.  The pair left his car and fled the area.  

Nine days later, NOPD arrested one suspect in the incident who had gotten a private ride to the hospital where he was treated for a gunshot wound to the chest and also confessed to the botched robbery.  When the thug and his “friend” fled, they crossed the Mississippi and his friend dumped him at a gas station and “left him there to die.”  His accomplice is still on the loose.

The governments and companies insist on creating crime encouragement zones.  Uber has a No Guns policy for both drivers and riders.  For the driver, it could mean losing his Uber job.  For a passenger it would mean loss of the use of the service.  If they were caught.  Like was stated in an story from a previous similar incident, “If only criminals obeyed the laws, this rule would make sense.”  Sometimes what they don’t know, won’t hurt them.  For this driver, ignoring company policy may have saved his life.  Uber drivers, or Lyft drivers for that matter, should not forfeit their Second Amendment right to defend themselves when they turn on that available switch in the app. Paul can talk to trucking companies doing the same and has many times. (end of story)

Rob- Some companies ban employees from being armed, yet the company will take out a life insurance policy on the employee, and the company gets paid if the employee dies.

Don’t go in there

While we are on the subject of young thugs, this time in Greenville, NC.  In the middle of the afternoon, the homeowner was notified by his alarm system of a break-in.  He notified police during his drive home.  He found 4 inside when he arrived home.  They ran and he fired after them.  He did manage to wound one in an arm.

 

The five 17 and 18 year olds were caught that same day.  One spent time in the hospital while the others were spending time in the local jail.

 

Why did the homeowner enter his house before the police arrived?  Why did he fire while they were running away?  He didn’t know if they were armed.  He could have been walking into an ambush of sort.  And if they were running away from him, he was not in any danger.  Luckily for him, he is not being charged. (end of story)

 

Rob- Gary, what is best practice in this situation.

John – He is lucky because under NC law what he did was illegal. A guy in Western NC was recently convicted of manslaughter for shooting at a fleeing robber.

Rob- I saw two signs on the ceiling of a DoJo.  They said Breathe, and Keep Working.

 

We post each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com  Please take a minute and share them with a friend.

 

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6- E-mail, blog notes, and show close

(605) 215 – 1438

onair@politicsandguns.com

Listener voicemail

 

An on body concealed gun collection- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTrXpDK_EYE

 

Paul: Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?

 

Thank you, Paul.  I wrote “Disarming the Victim- The Latest Shots in the Democrat’s War on Women”  We had a murderer shoot his wife on a “gun free” campus in “gun free” California.  We had a domestic abuse victim murdered while she waited for permission to buy a gun in New Jersey. And we had Virginia Governor Terry McAuliffe say that domestic abuse victims should not have guns.  If that isn’t a war on women, then I don’t know what is.

 

I also wrote about having guns on campus, but to know more about that article, you’ll have to look for it at Clash Daily, at Ammoland and on my blog, slow facts dot wordpress dot com.

 

John, tell us what’s new at your blog no lawyers only guns and money?

 

John- I have a number of new posts up since we last recorded. Judicial Watch is suing BATFE for documents related to the proposed ban on green tip 5.56 ammo. President Donald Trump is coming to speak at the NRA Leadership Forum. Trump will be the first president since Reagan to speak to the NRA meeting. Finally, a group of anti-gun law professors – but I repeat myself – have weighed in on the lawsuit pending before the Connecticut Supreme Ct trying to say Bushmaster was at fault for selling “military grade assault weapons” to civilians that was then used to kill school children in Newtown. They say nothing about how the killer obtained the firearm – he killed his own mother!

 

That and more is at only guns and money dot blogspot dot com.

 

We would like to thank Charlie Foxtrot for writing up show notes for us. Even though you don’t hear him on the air he is certainly part of what you do hear. Look at his blog at not one more gun law dot blogspot dot com

 

Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast.  I’d like to thank Kevin Davis and ??for joining us today.  So for Charlie Foxtrot, Dana, Jae, Gary, John, Rachel, Susan, Craig, and Rob,  until next time

(Paul, stop talking now)

 

Gary: stay safe,

Rob: be aware,

John: and we’ll see you down the road.

 

HANG OUT FOR 2 MINUTES

 

(after show close) How could we have made this episode better?

 

(DO NOT READ)Look at the shooters club by Bob Mayne and Ben Branam.  For $75.00 a year, $6.25 a month, you get 24/7 access to some fantastic training and audio podcasts that you can’t get anywhere else.  Subscribing from the link in our show notes helps Bob and Ben as well as helps us here at the Polite Society Podcast.

 

(DO NOT READ)Join your local civil rights group like the New Jersey Second Amendment Society, Arizona Citizens Defense League, Gun Owners of California, Commonwealth Second Amendment,  Connecticut Citizens Defense League, Florida Carry, Georgia Carry, Georgia Gun Owners, Grass Roots North Carolina, Illinois Carry, Maryland Shall Issue,  Michigan Gun Owners , Michigan Open Carry, and  Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners.

 

There are Minnesota Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance,  Nebraska Firearms Owners Association,   Citizens for a Safer New Jersey, New York State Rifle & Pistol Association,  Palmetto Concealed Carry, Open Carry Texas, Texas Firearms Freedom, Texas State Rifle Association. Tennessee Firearms Association, Virginia Citizens Defense League, Virginia Open Carry,  West Virginia Citizens Defense League, wisconsingunowners.org, and Wyoming Gun Owners.

 

For our Canadian listeners, and their supporters, join the Canadian Shooting Sports Association and the Canadian National Firearms Association.  If YOUR state or local organization isn’t read each episode, then send us an email and we’ll add them!

 

(DO NOT READ)The Polite Society download app is out on Amazon for Android and the I-phone app is in I-tunes and it is called Podcast Box.  They are located by our old name, Politics and guns.  Hot links are in our show notes.

 

Episode 406 – Andrew Branca

Full Episode Download: http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/406.mp3

1- Open and Personal News Segment

2- News Segment

3- Interview Segment 1: Andrew Branca

www.lawofselfdefense.com

4- Interview Segment 2: Andrew Branca

www.lawofselfdefense.com

5- DGU Segment:

6- Email and Show Close:

 

1- Introduction

Paul: Welcome to episode 406 of the polite society podcast sponsored by the Firearms Policy Coalition, I’m Paul Lathrop

Rob: I’m Rob Morse and on tonight’s show we will talk with Andrew Branca about defending yourself legally after you’ve defended yourself physically.

John: I’m John Richardson, and we’ll talk about a California man who is forcing the state to give him his guns back

Amanda: I’m Amanda Suffecool and Delta Airlines may be violating Federal law with their new policy on check firearms.

Gary: I’m Gary Daugherty and in one of out DGU’s an Oklahoman with an AR15 defends himself against 3 thugs! .. so climb aboard

Amanda: strap in

John : and hang on!

Paul:  episode 406 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.

Show intro music.

 

Personal news from each participant (when you are done with your segment please ask the next person what has been up with them)

 

Rob, Bill Frady was moving last Thursday and Friday.  He asked us to guest host, and Paul was on the road.  I had Cheryl and Dan Todd, Dr. John Edeen and Amanda Suffecool to help me as guest hosts.  It is great to have friends who have their own radio show so I can call them to help me.

 

John – Since we last recorded I have become a NRA Certified Instructor in Basic Pistol. I took the instructor class locally and passed both the written and shooting portions of the class. Dry fire practice really helped me prep for the class. Our class had a range of people ranging from a youth pastor to a retired NY hospital administrator to a metallurgist. We had a total of 9 in the class. There are two groups I hope to teach in Basic Pistol – the newbies who bought firearms in the last couple of years and school teachers. I’d like to run a class for teachers showing them how to safely handle a firearm if a kid should bring one to school.

 

Rob- Thank you, John.  That is a great idea.

 

Amanda – this week I am practicing quick drawing for a movie audition in cleveland.  Who knows if they will pick me,  but this is definitely outside of my comfort zone.  And in the gun toys area… can I tell you about a new toy that I just got?  MantisX

 

Gary

 

Paul/Susan very busy few weeks. Arkansas run (BEAUTIFUL Southwestern Missouri) Run to PA and gave away Ice Cream!  New classes booked, get to that in the training segment. Local woman murdered – offering free training.

 

Vicki Kawelmacher is an instructor who did the same thing in Reno, Nevada. https://www.facebook.com/womensshootingacademy

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/04/04/stalking-victim-protective-orders-not-enough-women-need-handguns/

 

Promo about upcoming training classes here.

(June 9-11 2017). MAG-30. Georgetown, TX

(June 24, 25th 2017).  Beyond Concealed Carry Enhanced.  9am -5pm both days. Richmond, IL

(July 8, 2017) Defensive Rifle Skills for the Armed Citizen

(August 10-13, 2017). MAG-40. Sioux Falls, SD

(August 26 & 27, 2017). Beyond Concealed Carry Enhanced. Sioux Falls, SD

(Saturday, February 3, 2018)Law of Self Defense LEVEL 1 Class: South Dakota

(Saturday, February 4, 2018)Law of Self Defense LEVEL 2 Class: South Dakota

 

Break

2- News 1

Rob- A Clovis California family forces the state to return 500 guns

Albert Shaklee, the former budget director of a hospital in the Fresno area sought some psychological help in 2014. We don’t know and it doesn’t matter what for. What matters is that seeking that help caused the FFL holder to come under the attention of Kamala Harris, the California attorney general who wanted to run for Senate.  Harris was looking to make some headlines, and she proceeded to do just that.

 

Harris ordered the raid of Shaklee’s home and then widely publicised the seizure of 209 handguns, 88 shotguns, 234 rifles, 181 standard capacity magazines, 10 high capacity magazines, 100,521 rounds of various ammunition, and 10 firearms registered with the DOJ as “assault weapons” including a .50 caliber rifle.

 

The problem is that Shaklee had committed no crimes. He wasn’t accused of any crimes. , all he had done was seek mental health help. That mattered nothing to Harris who had a campaign to run.

 

The raid found the guns in a locked and alarmed safe and all of the weapons that required registration in California were registered. As of last July the district attorney for Fresno county declared the situation resolved and that there would be no charges against Shaklee, yet they kept the guns.  

 

This week some justice has prevailed. A court has ordered the guns be turned over to a FFL so they can be returned to Shaklee. (end of story)

 

Paul – This is horrifying. A case where gun owners can reasonably fear if they seek mental health care that their rights will be taken from them thereby insuring that they do not seek the care they may need.

John – I read some of the comments on the story. One question asked why anyone needs 500 firearms.

Amanda – was he a FFL himself? Did they take his livelihood?  And hold it for more than a year

Gary –

Rob-

 

JohnDoes Delta Airlines New Policy to Zip Tie Luggage Containing Firearms Violate Federal Law?

Guns.com is reporting that Delta Airlines has quietly changed its policy related to passengers who are flying with guns. According to the NBC Affiliate in Fort Lauderdale. This policy was apparently implemented after the shooting that occurred in the Fort Lauderdale airport, after the criminal retrieved his luggage, went to the bathroom to load his firearm and then proceeded to murder five people and injured six others. The airline will now have special tags to alert ground handlers to not put bags carrying weapons on the general carousel.

The baggage will go directly to a baggage service agent who is required to perform an ID check on the passenger who picks up the luggage, sources told NBC 6. The agent must then use zip ties to secure the bag.

 

Interestingly enough, it appears that Delta may be in violation of federal law by implementing such a policy.

John – The law that this may very well violate is none other than the Brady Bill!

Rob- https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/922

18 U.S. Code § 922 – Unlawful acts section e-  …No common or contract carrier shall require or cause any label, tag, or other written notice to be placed on the outside of any package, luggage, or other container … contains a firearm.”

 

Amanda –  Rob and I are flying DELTA to go train at the AG&AG conference in two weeks.   What can I expect?  

 

Paul – this is a great identifier for thieves that work for the airlines.

Gary –

 

Rob- How can I carry wire cutter to cut the airlines cable ties?

Amanda – perhaps I just don’t fly with my FAVORITE gun.  

 

Gary- New Nevada Bill Allows Home Invaders to Sue You if You Shoot Them

 

A man’s home is his castle, or so the saying goes. And people should be able to protect their homes – including our most precious asset, our families – against intruders without fear of a lawsuit.

 

Some Nevada politicians are trying to change that. They think that you should be financially liable for any injuries they sustain when you defend yourself — even in your home.

 

Does that sound convoluted? It is. And, it’s ridiculous. If someone is invading your home, the last thing you should be thinking about is being sued if you use force to defend yourself or your family.

 

Senate Bill 254 removes the provision in Nevada law protecting people from civil liability when they justifiably use potentially deadly force against a person who is injured or killed while invading their home.

 

Rob- I will bet you odds that this bill was sponsored by the Nevada state bar association.

 

Rob- Both Nevada houses have Democrat majorities.

John – Civil immunity was part of NC’s Castle Doctrine adopted in 2011.

 

Gun Quotes: Every time something really bad happens, people cry out for safety, and the government answers by taking rights away from good people.   Penn Jillette

 

Hang on everybody, we’ll be back with our guest Andrew Branca.

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3- Interview 1

Andrew Branca.  Law of Self-Defense.

CLE credit.

Say very little unless you’ve studied what to say.  Don’t blather.

 

Innocent by reason of..

Do prepaid services cover your costs?  Andrew works with all of them.

Gary- Have any of your students been involved in self-defense cases?

Andrew- Students get angry at me when I explain the law.  Don’t get angry at me if you don’t like the law.  Change it.

 

John – You did great work on Legal Insurrection educating people on the issues in the Trayvon Martin case. What or how can the media be educated on the difference between Stand Your Ground and the Castle Doctrine?

Andrew- The media often needs to inflame more than they want to inform.

Rob- Our listeners are the good guys.  Most self-defense claims in court are brought by criminals.

 

4- Interview 2

Andrew Branca.  Law of Self-Defense. (Part 2)

http://www.time.gov/

 

5- DGUs (at beginning) These discussions are NOT legal advice. Some of us are trainers, but this is not formal training and YOU NEED formal training. The Defensive Gun Use segment is intended as information, NOT as training. As always the opinions of the hosts are only their own opinions and not those of any sponsors or other affiliations.

 

Three Against One AR-15

Early in the morning, five criminals quietly approached a Broken Arrow, Oklahoma home. They had previously burglarized the house’s detached apartment, now they returned to rob the main house, seeking more expensive goods and cash. The three experienced home-invaders were outfitted for their crime; dressed all in black, masked, gloved and armed. One or two waited outside in the car as planned. The team moved silently to the back of the house, then smashed the back glass door and rushed inside.  

The crash startled Zachary Peters, 23, awake. He ran to investigate and to protect his father, who was also in residence.  On the way out of his bedroom, he grabbed a firearm, a wise move. Peters found three black garbed men in the home’s kitchen and faced with those overwhelming odds he feared for his life and fired. Peters then retreated, barricaded himself in his bedroom and called 911. Given the events, he described the situation in a remarkably controlled manner and pleaded for the 911 operator to quickly send medical help for his assailants.       

 

Arriving deputies found all three intruders dead from single gunshot wounds; one was in the driveway, two were still inside the house. The home’s two residents were uninjured. There was no sign of a getaway car.


Up to this point, this was a somewhat unremarkable home-invasion. It was just another example of this type of crime – a crime that is becoming increasingly prevalent. Perhaps it was a bit unusual, as the intrusion was actually thwarted. However, with the successful use of a civilian firearm, there would have been little notice given by the mainstream media. The story would have been largely forgotten; except for one fact: the firearm used was the left’s despised boogieman: the AR-15.  

The publicized hand-wringing was immediate and intense. Many media reports questioned the “fairness” of using an AR-15, even in a fight for life. Some fixated on the young age of the criminals, ignoring that two were actually adults and their ages were masked by their garb. Very few reports mentioned the potentially deadly nature of the three-on-one assault. In a sympathetic jailhouse interview, the getaway driver, ironically called “the mastermind”, admitted to the home-invasion and other robberies, but wouldn’t take responsibility for the “murders.” The grandfather of a deceased claimed that his grandson shouldn’t have died for a “bad decision.” The cameras were tightly focused when the grieving man said; “There’s got to be a limit to that law.” Other mass media reports hoped that this case would somehow test the Stand Your Ground laws and all but called for the homeowner’s son’s arrest.

Perhaps one of the more over-the-top examples was ABC Good Morning America’s legal analyst, Nancy Grace. In a rambling, error-filled, tour de farce pulled directly from her ample behind, Grace first incorrectly tied Stand Your Ground to the George Zimmerman case, then defamed it as the “Make My Day” law. To her, AR-15s were “considered bad” and “just like a M-16 military rifle… a semi-automatic weapon.” She further smeared Oklahoma’s laws as an homage to Dirty Harry. No less an elite than ABC’s World News Tonight anchor David Muir reported on the Broken Arrow shootings during the GMA segment. From beneath his trademark deeply furrowed, concerned brow, Muir described Grace as one who “always cuts to the chase.” Our listeners are invited to determine for themselves just what Grace was cutting.

 

In Andrew Branca’s excellent National Review piece; “Mainstream Media Gets ‘Stand Your Ground’ Laws Wrong — Again”, Oklahoma’s Castle Doctrine is identified as the controlling law. The state’s legislation holds that while in their home, it is presumed the defender has a reasonable fear of death or bodily harm and that the intruders intend to commit violence. With those presumptions, a finding of self-defense is very likely. The police are in apparent agreement; while the event is still being investigated, the Wagoner County Sheriff has officially stated that Zachary Peters’ use of force was justified.

 

There is little to celebrate in this sad affair, except that the victim is alive and will not be victimized a second time by a criminal and civil legal system unjustly concerned with “fairness” and the choice of life-saving equipment. Unfortunately, the mass media will not be as principled.  
What this tragic event amply illustrates is the media’s obvious biases and proud and willful lack of firearm and self-defense knowledge — as well as their overwhelming desire to inflict their biases on the American public.

 

For The Polite Society Podcast
“The Swan Song”

CF

 

(end of story)

 

Gary – Also listening to the 911 recording the, victim said one of the criminals was still in the house and talking and she proceeded to tell him to unload the gun.

John – Nancy Grace is a disgrace to the legal profession and has skirted legal ethics more than once.

Rob- Five on One.  One of the fleeing criminals died on the driveway as the getaway car drove off without them.  The victim had presence of mind to tell the police that the family had dogs and that the dogs were not a threat to the police.

Amanda – 5 on 1,  3 on 1.  that was my first thought – they had brass knuckles and Knives, and 3 on 1.  Yet they- the anti gun agenda folks were singing –  Its not fair.

Paul – I cannot remember who said it, but it’s true… “If you are in a fair fight your tactics suck”

 

Don’t piss off the old guy

When you have had your home broken into 13 times since last summer, you tend to prepare for the next time.  Granted most of the 13 were while you were away.  The 79 year old homeowner was asleep in his home when he was jolted awake by loud noises coming from his basement. The 3 home invaders moved to the floor where his bedroom was and entered his bedroom.  By the time they entered his room he had armed himself with his .38 revolver.  “It was just POW POW POW.”  He got off 5 shots.  1 thug was killed and 2 of the thugs ran and the homeowner chased them.  There were shots returned in the homeowners direction and he was hit in the ankle with a through and through wound.  “I never felt it.  I fell twice.”

 

The shooting was ruled justifiable.  Although POGO applies to waking hours, it is wise to have a firearm within easy reach while in bed.(end of story)

 

Paul – I would like to discuss

Gary –

John – No kids in the house but will be getting a easy-open bedside safe for when my granddaughter comes to visit.

Amanda –  even if you have kids –   you can get into good a

quality safe in less than 4 seconds.

Rob- I had a young man ask about guns.. But he said he needed a safe before he brought guns into his home.  One of my instructors said she is very good at opening her safe.. Because she does it every morning.

Look at Hornady bedside safes, or a simplex lock.

We post each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com  Please take a minute and share them with a friend.

 

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6- E-mail, blog notes, and show close

Listener e-mail discussion

 

Voicemails… 2 of them!

 

Amanda – DIck Durbin story.   Dc project

 

Text Message #1 Have to step aside for a second. Please continue

 

Can we acknowledge how awful it is to wear flip flops in public? Call me overly tactical but those are terribly unprepared for dangerous circumstances. -CB

 

Rob- Police investigators mentioned criminals looking for girls wearing flip flops or wearing high heels.  

John – I just think of 9-11 and those who had to evacuate the Twin Towers ran into problems with their office heels.

 

Text message #2

Just listened to 405 subj: deep conceal. I work a University with a required dress code. I’ve tried the smart carry rig, the belly band rig, but now am sold on the bugbite ankle rig it is amazing. i carry the g-42 8-10 hrs a day no one notices and it is extremely comfortable/thanks for the show

 

Mr Anonymous asks about deep concealment pocket holsters

Hi, Paul & crew

I sent a brief text while traveling but felt the need to elaborate on the subject of deep carry options.

First, thank you for your labor of love and the service you provide through your podcast. I especially enjoy hearing different perspectives from your round table discussions.

I work at a University and have a uniform provided. I can somewhat relate to the nurse who raised a question about carry options as well as the practice. Rachel’s answer was spot on. Each person must decide based on what they consider an acceptable risk.

 

I wish to address the secondary issue of how to carry. Over the years I have tried a variety of options which are all compromises but nonetheless, “better to have it and not need it” has been my mantra.

 

I’ve used the following: Ruger LCP in a nemesis pocket holster; the same in a galco bellyband; a J-frame in a smart carry; but I’ve settled on the G-42 in a new product called the bugbite ankle holster; It is the most comfortable rig I have ever worn. Honestly, after a one day wear/break in period you don’t even know you are wearing it. The first week I committed the mistake of touching the area just to make sure it was there. It feels tight for the first few minutes of putting it on but after that, the material conforms to your calf/ankle and you are on your way.

This is not a quick draw option but it is a comforting one. I just wanted to pass it on for what it’s worth.

Sent in by Mr Anonymous

 

A Michigander writes in

 

Hello All –

Just finished listening to Episode 405.

Gary mentioned he was going to have the opportunity to hear Mr. David Keene, one of the authors of the book Shall Not Be Infringed, the New Assaults on Your Second Amendment, speak.

So, Gary… did Mr. Keene speak about the United Nations “Arms Trade Treaty?” I finished the book recently and was surprised how much of the book was dedicated to explaining the Arms Trade Treaty and how the United Nationals works (or doesn’t work). I know the book’s perspective is one-sided considering one of the authors is a former NRA President; nevertheless, the facts are the facts. I think the authors intended the book to be read before the election and in preparation for a Hillary Presidency.

It was really disturbing to hear how an American President (Obama) orchestrated and planned a complete end-around on the 2nd Amendment and the delivery of the American people as in… “We the People” … to the will of the U.N.

So, do you guys think the US Senate would ever ratify a U.N. treaty that would so flagrantly violate the Bill of Rights?

Clearly that was the game plan if Hillary got the Presidency and the far-Left did better in the Senate last November.

I don’t remember…did anybody bring up President Obama’s failure to up hold the Constitution and his Oath of Office when he asked the U.N. to put the Arms Trade Treaty up for approval shortly after he won his second term.

Regards,

Your Faithful Anonymous Michigan Listener

 

John – Only if they can get 67 votes to ratify the treaty.

Amanda – we want it pulled up to vote and KILL it

 

A listener offers Rob some advice

Another good podcast.  Early on, one gentleman said he was coming to Austin for a MAG20 class.  I trust that he is a responsible adult and purchased a round trip ticket.  Also, once back home, I encourage him to tell everyone what a wonderful place Lubbock is.

— Matt

Rob-  Dear Matt.  I’ll drive.  They have lanes that lead in, and lanes that lead out of Austin.

 

Finally Clayton chimes in

Okay so every decent trainer knows the value of dry fire. But I have never heard anyone address the incorrect “muscle memory” neurological pathway training of giving your Glock/Smith and Wesson/etc. a quick slide rack between every single trigger pull. Anybody with a reeeeally high dry to live fire ratio might be affecting their performance under adrenaline. Thoughts?

 

Rob- I get it.  Clayton is …

If you are doing a lot of dry fire, then get a SIRT pistol.

 

Amanda – my walther does not require it..

Gary-

John – I love my SIRT but I’d also suggest a revolver. If you can smoothly pull the trigger in a double action revolver, it will help all the rest.

have a

 

-Clayton Some More

 

Paul: Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?

 

Rob-

https://slowfacts.wordpress.com/2017/03/27/violence-and-utopia-realism-and-idealism-in-the-age-of-gun-control/

 

Clash Daily.  Ammoland.  Slowfacts. That is at slow facts dot wordpress dot com.  John, tell us what’s new at your blog no lawyers only guns and money.

 

There are a couple of post I’d like to point out. First, I have updated Every Picture Tells A Story to include the newest Constitutional Carry states. When Rob Vance and I started this series, Illinois still didn’t have concealed carry and only 3-4 states had permitless carry. The other post illustrates the battle between science and ideologues over suppressors and the Hearing Protection Act. The post has a link to the recent white paper put out by Doctors for Responsible Gun Ownership endorsing suppressors on public health grounds.

 

That and more is at only guns and money dot blogspot dot com.

Ask Amanda what has been going on at Eye on the Target Radio

 

We would like to thank Charlie Foxtrot for writing up show notes for us. Even though you don’t hear him on the air he is certainly part of what you do hear. Look at his blog at not one more gun law dot blogspot dot com

 

Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast.  I’d like to thank Andrew Branca for joining us today.  So for Charlie Foxtrot, Gary, John, Rachel, Susan, Dana, Jae, Amanda, Craig, and Rob,

(Paul, stop talking now)

 

Rob: Until the next time…

Gary: stay safe,

Amanda: be aware,

John: and we’ll see you down the road.

 

(after show close) How could we have made this episode better?

 

(DO NOT READ)Look at the shooters club by Bob Mayne and Ben Branam.  For $75.00 a year, $6.25 a month, you get 24/7 access to some fantastic training and audio podcasts that you can’t get anywhere else.  Subscribing from the link in our show notes helps Bob and Ben as well as helps us here at the Polite Society Podcast.

 

(DO NOT READ)Join your local civil rights group like the New Jersey Second Amendment Society, Arizona Citizens Defense League, Gun Owners of California, Commonwealth Second Amendment,  Connecticut Citizens Defense League, Florida Carry, Georgia Carry, Georgia Gun Owners, Grass Roots North Carolina, Illinois Carry, Maryland Shall Issue,  Michigan Gun Owners , Michigan Open Carry, and  Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners.

 

There are Minnesota Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance,  Nebraska Firearms Owners Association,   Citizens for a Safer New Jersey, New York State Rifle & Pistol Association,  Palmetto Concealed Carry, Open Carry Texas, Texas Firearms Freedom, Texas State Rifle Association. Tennessee Firearms Association, Virginia Citizens Defense League, Virginia Open Carry,  West Virginia Citizens Defense League, wisconsingunowners.org, and Wyoming Gun Owners.

 

For our Canadian listeners, and their supporters, join the Canadian Shooting Sports Association and the Canadian National Firearms Association.  If YOUR state or local organization isn’t read each episode, then send us an email and we’ll add them!

 

(DO NOT READ)The Polite Society download app is out on Amazon for Android and the I-phone app is in I-tunes and it is called Podcast Box.  They are located by our old name, Politics and guns.  Hot links are in our show notes.